Hahahaha. What a clear perspective you have Craig. Keep up the good work mate.

By a curious coincidence, I had a thought last night (chorus:" Gosh, that's a suprise") - namely, what a long way we've regressed.

Wasn't the question of whether or not the people were prepared to pay for the leaders' wars one of the issues that sparked the Civil War(s?) of the mid-1600s ?

Gordon Brown may be a tosser, but I am convinced that he virtually single handedly saved the entire Western World's banking system from total collapse 18 months ago.

The situation was such, that if he hadn't taken the action he did, that on the following Monday morning, no cash machines would have worked. Companies would have been unable to pay their employees. Literally everything would have ground to a halt, and people would have starved to death.

I am also convinced that this was deliberately planned, by whoever is in control of the US banking system. Crashing the entire banking system could not have been an accident, but a long term strategy.

At the time of the crisis, Brown flew to the US, and no one within the US Government would even speak to him.

His response was basically FUCK YOU then, and agreed his strategy with the rest of Europe, which actually forced the US to take on his plan to prevent total collapse.

The first US Bail-Out resulted in a massive transfer of wealth out of the US to recompense the toxic derivatives (which I refer to as human turds in a beautifully wrapped gift box) that they had spread throughout the World's banking system.

All this was down to Brown's strategy. Sure the World's banking system is still in an aweful mess, with virtually all countries and populations in massive debt.

But really this is all meaningless nonsense. To who exactly is all this debt owed? To whoever it is, it must be a private entity of immense wealth - effectively the wealth of the World.

So the solution is to settle the debt by imposing a 99.9999% windfall tax to be fairly distributed amongst all the World's National Governments, and for all the World's National Governments to issue their own currency through their own Government Banks.

Any attempts to actually pay off this debt are ridiculous and meaningless and would impoverish the entire World, such that we are back at the very near point of collapse 18 months ago.

This is entirely unnecessary. There are evil forces at work here, and Brown is one of the few standing up to them.

Tony

Tony, you are entertaining if nothing else. No one could question your commitment to this blog, you must spend many hours composing your responses.

"Gordon Brown. Unquestioning writer of cheques for a psychotic warmonger".

Very nicely put, unbeatably compact, and unquestionably accurate.

As an editor, may I compliment you on your excellent way with words? No doubt another reason your books are popular.

John E,

I didn't even know that Brown was at Chilcot and it took me less than 20 minutes to write the above.

I may have followed matters closely, and actually wrote somewhere (it wasn't here) that I thought Brown had saved the World, even before he accidentally spurted those words out in Parliament to the derision of the Tories.

I think it hardly likely that Brown or anyone else in Government reads the stuff I write, but it is my opinion, most of which may be complete nonsense and almost always is when I'm pissed.

anno,

I haven't gone back to drinking baby milk again, its just that I attempt to analyse things from first principles without any political allegiances or sacrosanct pre-conceived ideas.

I came to the conclusion around 10 years ago, that most economists didn't have a clue, and most politicians were even worse.

The only real use that money has is to motivate people to do useful work.

Whilst I admit to accusations of insanity, I am not quite as insane as the banks.

You may not believe this, but from 2002-2006, banks were literally giving free money away. They were nearly all offerring 0% rates on credit cards for up to 18 months, and at the end of the free period you could role the debt over to another card. Millions of people had multiple cards and debts up to around £50,000 for which they were paying 0 interest. They could invest this money in the very same interest baring accounts of the same banks and receive significant amounts of free money. Of course the banks were well aware of the fact that most people would spend it instead, and then they would pull the plug on them and take all their assets, which is exactly what is happenning in the US now.

Debt in itself is not a problem for an individual or a company, providing there is a stable economic system and reasonable terms for repayment - for example a traditional repayment mortgage for a house over 25 years, or the provision of working capital for a company's production run of a new product with a virtually guaranteed profitable market.

But over the last 15 years the whole ecomomy went completely insane, as if it was being specifically manipulated to crash.

The position of Governments is completely different to individuals and companies, because they have the legitimate right to issue their own Currency through their own National Bank.

Complete reform and a new economic system is inevitable, because the current banking system is unsustainable, as the debt (to God?) will otherwise exponentially expand towards infinity. God has no use for this money and doesn't need paying back, so the World has to design a new system that is fair for all and motivates people to do useful work.

Tony

Gordon Brown is what I term, a 'man in the middle,' terrified of being branded 'old Labour' but equally wanting to call time on the aberration of Blairite New Labour.

Gordon seems to perpetually be in a fog of permanent fear, scared of criticism and constantly making furious notes in an attempt to calculate what might go wrong.

It is a great pity that he showed no interest in what might have gone wrong in invading Iraq. A man 10 years in waiting, his attempts to please everyone while internally exploding when the unforeseen happens will ultimately be his downfall.

A pity though for this man has championed the poor in more ways than one; with a little more courage he might well have become Flash Gordon and won a forth term for 'Middle Labour.'

Tony, have you considered joining a political party or getting involved in campaigns? I don't mean the mainsteam parties who are just vehicles for the vainglorious careerists we see in parliament, but campaigns like Stop the War and Unite Against Fascism are a very worthy use of our energies. And they do make a difference you know. Did you know there is a mobilisation today outside parliament because the English Defence League are supposed to be demonstrating today to welcome the Dutch Islamophobe Geert Wilders. I'd be there myself now but I'm at work now.

Tony,

"as the debt (to God?) will otherwise exponentially expand towards infinity."

The exponential progression lies within our own conscience, light years away from infinity, held back by our thirst for blood and the destruction of the innocent in preemptive 'wars' whose only purpose are the pursuit of power and greed.

The massive slaughter of innocent children in Iraq and Gaza serves to remind us how unbalanced that 'system' is, completely out of step with a sharing and dividing nature.

God is rarely accused of lying, so why have we have become obsessed with untruths like the fictitious Saddam-al Qaeda axis to the rosy updates on the Switzerlandization of Iraq, from the bogus tales of WMD to the assurance that democracy is the future of the region.

All bollocks and all those innocent souls that terminated prematurely cannot be saved, even by God.

Firstly, sorry for continuing off-topic but I will endeavour to bring it back to Craig's original post...

Jon: exactly, there are indeed some conspiracies but when there is a simpler (or in this case IMHO bleedin' obvious!) explanation with evidence to back it there's no need to get all metaphysical.

Larry "BURN THE WITCH!" St. Louis: *yawn* End of.

Tony: I'm afraid you don't enhance your reputation for perspicacious economic analysis with statements like: "The only real use that money has is to motivate people to do useful work." - actually the principle function of currency is as a means of exchange.

You say that "the whole ecomomy went completely insane, as if it was being specifically manipulated to crash." As if. It may have looked like that to you but unless you have some evidence for this it is simply an empty assertion.

You make a better point about governments having the right to manage their economies via the intervention of their national bank. Unfortunately this good point undermines your case regarding Gordon Brown. If you remember, one of the first acts of the incoming Labour government in 1997 was to relinquish influence over the Bank of England removing any suggestion that Brown would exercise any political influence over the British economy for the benefit of ordinary working people (or to assist the unemployed to become ordinary working people for that matter).

And this brings me back to Craig's post: just as Brown didn't have the politics or backbone to stand up to Blair over the destruction of Iraq, likewise he won't take a real stand against finance capital and those ostentatiously feathering their nests while the rest of us are squeezed.

Larry,

Where did I say anything of the sort?

If you are suggesting that Zionism - as a political creed - does not exist then you are seriously ill-informed. If and when anno uses any terminology as vile as that you used above then my position will be clear.

So far the only truly offensive poster on this thread is you and I believe you need to take a long hard look at the beam in your own eye before you complain about imaginary splinters in the eyes of others.

And be careful using terms like 'mature discourse' it just makes you look more daft. "I just want those hooked-nose Illuminati Zionist money-changing bankers sent back to the gas chambers!" - mature discourse... I think not.

Right, Chris, so you approve of anno's use of the term "Zio-banker"

Assuming that you would have a problem with someone claiming that the Jewish bankers are the cause of all the world's problems (and it's not clear to me what your position is on this), I'm not sure why blaming everything on Zionist bankers is any better.

That's a not-so-clever trick that anno pulls. He just substitutes a word.

Are you intelligent enough to figure that out?

Apparently you're not so intelligent, as you don't understand that I was using hyperbole above to make a point.

L/Cpl Joe Glenton is sentenced to 9 mths' imprisonment for refusing to return to the war in Afghanistan. Like Ft Lt Malcolm Kendall-Smith who refused to return to Iraq, he will be in prison in Colchester.

Shame on all the warmongers and shame on Her Majesty's Government with the bloody hands.

~~~~~~~~~
BBC website page last updated at 15:02 GMT, Friday, 5 March 2010


Anti-Afghan War Awol soldier Joe Glenton jailed

L/Cpl Joe Glenton was absent for two years and six days

A soldier who refused to return to Afghanistan because he opposes the war has been jailed after admitting going absent without leave (Awol).

L/Cpl Joe Glenton, 27, from York, joined the Army in 2004 but absconded in 2007 after serving with the Royal Logistic Corps in Afghanistan.

He handed himself in after two years and six days' absence.

Glenton, who is based at Abingdon, Oxfordshire, was jailed for nine months at Colchester and reduced to the ranks.

The court martial was told that Glenton, who later campaigned against the conflict, was discovered to be absent on 11 June 2007, when he was due to return to Dalton Barracks in Abingdon.

When he first raised with his staff sergeant his reluctance to be deployed again... it resulted in the sergeant at the time bullying and intimidating

He returned to barracks 737 days later on 16 June 2009, when he was charged.

During that (time) Glenton went to south east Asia and Australia.

He had previously performed a seven-month tour of duty in Afghanistan.

When he returned he was ordered to go back to the conflict zone.

Nigel Wrack, in mitigation, told the court martial that this was nine months after his previous tour had finished, even though military guidelines suggest soldiers should not be deployed again within 18 months.

Mr Wrack said Glenton had suffered from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) after his first tour of duty.

'Coward and malingerer'

He told the court that when Glenton raised concerns about going back he suffered bullying.

"When he first raised with his staff sergeant his reluctance to be deployed again, instead of being dealt with in a sensible way it resulted in the sergeant at the time bullying and intimidating L/Cpl Glenton," he said.

"He was called a coward and a malingerer.

"When this information was brought to his commanding officer, the sergeant was spoken to, but this reinforced the bullying."

Consultant psychiatrist Lars Davidsson told the court Glenton may have reacted the way he did because of PTSD.

Glenton took part in an anti-war protest in October last year.

After the hearing a spokesman for the Stop the War Coalition said: "Joe Glenton is not the person who should be facing a jail sentence.

"It should be the politicians who have led us into disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."

~~~~~~

Alan Campbell

So you think that DC is soft? I'd be surprised if he didn't bring back the workhouse for debt-defaulters, if he gets more than three years in office.
Maybe you don't remember Mrs T constantly winding the people up by scrapping the manufacturing jobs and the welfare state.
Now that they have got Zionist funding, they'll have another stick to beat the British working class. You want more, just wait till May 6, and you'll see for yourself.

"does this feel like a country that had £100 billion to throw away on a totally needless aggressive war?"

No, Craig, not from my side of the sea, anyway. But the same could be said of the US. What always strikes me as weird is that the public there will kick up blue murder over their tax dollars going on an improved system of health care, but they don't even bother to find out how much of their tax goes on war, and weapons, and weapons R&D. They don't even know the figures. Same goes for bail-outs. They'll kick up hell about them. But never about what their military costs, or those ~800 bases around the world.

---------------------------

I believe Craig said that he'd delete any references to 9/11 from threads other than the one below. How many times does Larry have to be reminded??

Brown should have looked to his history...

http://tinyurl.com/yhopwk6

“The BBC reported Thursday the statistic from doctors in the city of Fallujah that the number of heart defects found in newborn babies is 13 times the number of similar birth defects in Europe.”

Bush ordered Fallujah to be essentially destroyed in 2004.

The BBC story states: “British-based Iraqi researcher Malik Hamdan told the news organisation that one doctor compared the number of birth defects from before 2003 to today. Before the war began, she saw about one case every two months. Now she sees cases every day.

“Her research shows that as of January, the rate of congenital heart defects was 95 per 1,000 births or 13 times Europe's rate.” Blair is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Many tens of thousands of children have died directly as a consequence of the Blair/Bush's war that was based exclusively on lies and deceit. In addition to the spike in birth defects, a whole generation of Iraqi children will face a lifetime of physical and emotional wounds. Seventy percent of children are suffering from trauma-related symptoms reports the Iraqi Society of Psychiatrists and the World Health Organization. That conclusion was based on a survey of 10,000 primary school students.

We owe it the people of Fallujah and all the still suffering people in Iraq to let them know that the people of Britain, like they, recognise that a government that spoke in our name committed some of the worst atrocities in modern times.

Please demand that Blair is brought to trial for war crimes. Join:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=271159066031

I can tell when I have posted omething effective because the New Labour trolls dash in with truly peculiar allegations of anti-semitism, then sparking a row about Israel with other commenters. Just massacred some thiry comments by a rough and ready process- sorry if some suffered collateral damage.

If you put the blame on one man, you are exonerating the big guys who put him up to it. Maybe I ought to have a tantrum like Larry, whenever anyone casts aspersions on the big guys. Keep it simple for the British electorate. Labour baaad, Conservative gooood. Play new game?

Being an American, I'm hardly a member of New Labour or a New Labour voter.

I got pissed off when Anno wrote of "Zio-bankers" and "Zio-crimes".

You let such things go on your blog. Odd, because you seem to think other comments demand deletion. In any event, mission accomplished on my part.

The fight against racism is always an important fight.

Mark Golding

Yeah, I saw the BBC cover the 'birth defects' story yesterday as it if were a dramatic new revelation. And professing mystification as to what might be causing it. I don't get it. Surely this story has been going on since the first Gulf War and is quite obviously caused by depleted uranium? Where have they been? Mind you, the US military spokesman dismissed the story and said they took public health very seriously. So that's all right, then.

If an Englishman does something that causes offence for example to a Frenchman, intentionally or unintentionally, it does not mean that he was being racist. But if a pattern emerges in which a particular race is consistently targeted over along period of time, it is racism. In the case of the War on Terror, the US and UK and Israel have been attacking Muslims on a truly monumental scale. So let's not hear one more squeak from Larry justifying this blatant racism.

Furthermore, even if the offence was not intended, but offence was taken all the same, the sensibilities of the offended person should be respected. Point taken.
I will no longer use the J word or the Z word on this blog again. But I will never withdraw my accusation that the war on terror is a war on Islam, or that its advocates and supporters are Racists, or that its agents are perpetrators of genocide. From now on, inshallah, I will only use the R word, to describe those people Muslim or non-Muslim who sponsor state terror on the ordinary, practising Muslims, because of their religious beliefs, even if they belong to the same nationality, family or tribe.

"mission accomplished on my part."

Didn't I hear that somewhere before?

I found it totally disgusting that the inhuman monster expressed his regret over the loss of British soldiers' lives but did not even mention the loss of over a million Iraqi lives. It is even more sickening when you consider that the British soldiers were essentially war criminals since they were fighting an illegal imperial war. Besides, I believe his cynical words were just an electioneering ploy.

I think I posted this link already but I've got lost among the threads. Here goes again anyway:

"The revision thing:
A history of the Iraq war, told entirely in lies"

(All text is verbatim from senior Bush Administration officials and advisers)

http://tinyurl.com/ybu989p

Thought of it today, watching Gordon ...

Reading this:

"Gordon Brown to stop courts issuing arrest warrants for foreign officials"

http://tinyurl.com/ydjb6kn

about Gordon making sure that Tzipi Livni and friends can visit without hassle.
One commenter wrote:

"Considering how that country went all over the world after the Second World War kidnapping war criminals and trying them for their crimes, why do they expect other people to be less vigilant in their fight against war criminals."

and another

"Can we have a list of those countries and organisations that can phone up Gordon Brown and tell him to change UK laws they don't agree with?"

Heartening. Because I'd read comments on the subject of torture (in another publication) that really depressed me. I don't expect people to condone torture, and when they promote it, I'm shocked and depressed.

I rate Anno's perspectve pretty highly too.Muslim's are the new Jews, i.e In my opinion anybody who rants about muslim threat or buys the whole'They hate our freedom and want to blow us up', is no better than the Germans who silently or vocally supported the demonisation and killing of Jews during the second world war.Thats because the same propaganda mechanisms are being targeted on the public to allow them to sit back and do nothing whilst innocent people are bombed or tortured in concentration camps such as Guantanamo bay (anybody who thinks that is an outrageous comment should contemplate the fact that the supposed ringleader/alqueda linchpin currently on trial in the U.S regarding 9/11 has been waterboarded 183 times)Insanity. Sorry for the rant , but sometimes I can't help it. : )

Anno: Well said. Leave out the Z-stuff, because it gives entirely disingenuous mischief-makers the chance to get all hysterical, wet their panties and start shrieking. Much easier for them, which is why they steer any conversation into that "OMG! You're all Nazis!" frame and load you up with all that baggage. They'll be offering a shrill "When will anyone think about the children?" the first chance they get - mark my words.

Thus any discussion about pro/anti Israeli foreign policy would become a question of being an "anti-semite" or not one. Any questioning of Official Truths now comes down to whether one is a "loon" (how quaint an ad hominem!) or not. As Craig said, he's being effective when such types start to come out of the woodwork.

So glad the AngryLarrys are here to keep us straight, stopping us getting too nutty and racist. Gosh, it brings a lump to my throat just to contemplate their selfless devotion.

You whining dumbass fuckfaces.

One can disagree with Israeli domestic and foreign policy. I often disagree with Israeli domestic and foreign policy. I do so without remotely being an anti-Semite.

I wasn't going anywhere near that issue.

I will say that if you're a person who thinks there's a Jew or Zionist banker conspiracy behind the scenes that manipulating the world's decision-makers, then I think maybe you should apologize for being a racist anti-Semite.

Larry: I will say that if you're an apologist for child molesting priests, you should say so at once, and stop trying to protect them.

Not that I was going near that issue myself.

Also, AngryLarry, you should apologise if you think that you can keep your own children locked up for years, and force them to have sex with you. Really, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, if that's what you think.

Larry

You need to talk to the people working the other shifts on the 'Larry from St Louis' avatar, stylistically you seem to be singing from different hymn sheets. The earlier guys weren't so in-your-face with the profanities, and were generally a touch more urbane. I think that approach is more successful. Maybe you could discuss it with your supervisor.

Hope that helps.

Richard Robinson

"Wasn't the question of whether or not the people were prepared to pay for the leaders' wars one of the issues that sparked the Civil War(s?) of the mid-1600s ?"

Such a pertinent point to follow Craig's post.

The British people should be made more aware of the choice and cost, between these wars to enrich a ruling elite--or supply the domestic needs of the nation. However, everything in the British Establishment, seems to militate against the truth and consequences of government actions and we seem less able to register our opposition to these adventures.
Is the Fourth Estate a fifth columnist?

"we seem less able to register our opposition"

As a friend of mine was saying yesterday, we need a figure for a minimum voter turnout (15 percent?), under which figure an election is declared null and void, as with UN elections. Then all politicians would have to go away and rethink, and come back to the country with revised plans and some humility.

Otherwise the low voter turnout and general apathy merely bankrolls the unscrupulous.

John: William Nordhaus (professor of economics, Yale) sketched out before the invasion the potential, almost unimaginable, costs. His analysis was ignored, by the British press too. Very few newspapers wanted to hear anything but the drum rolls. Perhaps it's as simple as the fact that journalists mostly get excited about war; and so do editors, because it sells newspapers. I almost hope not.

Off topic here but relevant to the main thrust on this blog.

From medialens

Dismore: 'We need more of an answer' on torture allegations

Posted by pete f on March 6, 2010, 10:29 am

http://xpovx.blogspot.com/search/label/Torture

and links to Clive Stafford Smith article on latest allegations.
~~~~~~~~~
Reminder that Dismore is Labour Friend of Israel and chairman of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Human Rights.
He is holding the ring here.

'Unquestioning writer of cheques for a psychotic warmonger.'

Two weeks ago I was asking whether the general UK public were unquestioning and complicit in the illegal invasions. The reply came back that most people did not feel empowered to protest however much they disagreed with UK foreign policy. If you make the assumption, as I do, that Gordon Brown, as Prime Minister, does not feel empowered to protest about it, you end up asking who and why exercises so much influence over us that our hands are tied.

If we are not allowed to name the people who we believe are responsible for tying our hands, it is easy to fall back into the default position that the whole UK population is tacitly complicit with the evil of these invasions. I don't accept that conclusion.

Nor does the blame for the invasions rest with the global enterprises who have raised living standards astronomically in many parts of the world. Gordon Brown supports the world-wide program of English teaching as a way of exporting our varlues. One example of these is the British concept that laws defining quality control, although raising costs, benefit society as a whole. If you buy the same model of car in Iraq as in the UK, the quality is much inferior to what we drive here.

It is not Racism to export values. It is Racism, to exterminate other peoples with different values by means of overwhelming power. I simply do not buy the economic argument that big business wants to bulldoze its trade into the whole globe by means of excruciating personal and social pain. I believe that enemies of Islam, Racists against Islam, have power, through banking, to manipulate UK foreign policy through economic blackmail. The fact that banking individuals are receiving bonuses in the teeth of this severe recession reinforces my opinion that the banks are controlling government.

So. No, I don't agree with Craig's statement that Gordon Brown is unquestioning or that Tony Blair was a psychotic warmonger. I believe that are forces running our country, which are Racist against Islam and beyond our present power to control.

Anno and others have the cart before the horse. The rise of racism and Islamaphobia is a consequence of the US/British imperialist adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq, not the other way around.

The tide of intolerance and paranoia directed at Muslims at home and abroad has been whipped-up by politicians and their willing cronies in the media as part of an ideological offensive to justify the crimes that are their foreign wars. It was ever thus.

Let's not forget that our glorious leaders are not at all shy about being very friendly with quite a lot of countries that are overwhelmingly Muslim, to the point that they will turn a blind eye to, say, corruption involving Western defence contractors or appalling human rights abuses. I believe the owner of this blog may have written a book about one such example.

Imperialism will use whichever form of prejudice is convenient in the given circumstances: it just so happens that their current hate campaign poster boy is Muslim.

Ian, you should read The Looming Tower.

Larry: when you concentrate on the froth rather than a deep currents that lie beneath all you get is...erm...frothy.

I suggest you read Lenin's "Imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism" - as fresh and pertinent today as when he wrote it during World War I

The tea party with the four knights and the baroness on Friday and then a long flight to beat the war drum on Saturday.
Is he on some sort of melanotropic drug?
~~~~~~
Brown visits soldiers in Afghanistan amid defence row

Gordon Brown: "I've planned this visit for some time"

Gordon Brown has visited British troops in Afghanistan amid a growing row over his evidence to the Iraq war inquiry.

Downing Street told the BBC Mr Brown had rejected criticism from two ex-Army chiefs that as chancellor, he spurned requests for more equipment in Iraq.

No 10 also denied Conservative claims the PM was using the visit to divert attention away from the row.

During his trip the PM promised 2,000 more metal detectors and announced plans for a new light patrol vehicle.

/.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8553316.stm

"I suggest you read Lenin's "Imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism" - as fresh and pertinent today as when he wrote it during World War I"

Hmmm...Lenin had some good ideas, didn't he. Him and good ole Felix Dzerzhinsky. No Guantanamo Bays for them, they just rounded everyone up and shot them in the basements.

"Former head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency Hamid Gol says the United States is seeking to create and train terrorist groups in the region."

Yes, but I'd take Hamid Gul's words with an extremely large pinch of salt.

Not only that but I think Hamid Gul's got a bit of a cheek to accuse others of raising terrorist organizations (can we use that word "terrorist"?) given the ISI and his own personal record on that.

Mmm. I would take anything Gul said without the need for an emetic, necessarily. He's not mentioning what ISI are up to either. And yet, this is what the CIA actually do, and have done. Very stupid

Angrysoba,
at least ISI or Gol are not organizing an assassination of freedom fighters in sovereign countries' territories.

John - "Such a pertinent point to follow Craig's post"

Thanks, but ... in a more ideal world it would be startling that this was even worth mentioning. I'm here because I'm interested in what Craig has to say, the points he raises.

And he says he's deleted 30-some disruptive comments ? This is not an easy place to look for coherent conversation. Some of the spin-offs are interesting, granted, and I've been known to diverge, myself, but still ...

"The British people should be made more aware of the choice and cost, between these wars to enrich a ruling elite--or supply the domestic needs of the nation."

Are you familiar with the saying "We look forward to the day when schools get all the equipment they need, and the Air Force holds jumble sales to fund its next bomber" ? (I think it originated with the US Quakers. The Civil War connection, again).

To go back to the original point, we should note that "the peoples' willingness to pay" was mediated by Parliament (one of its main functions ? I Am Not A Historian), and in a formal sense, was done that way over Iraq. It may even have been that if 'we, the people' had been asked directly & straightforwardly (referendum, or something ?), 'we' would have agreed, given the information being made available. Decision-making can, at best, only be as good as what we think we know. (I thought I knew damn well it was a spurious crisis, invented to excuse a done deal, but maybe not everyone's that cynical).

But, 'we' didn't like it once 'we' saw what it actually meant. And, nor is it over, God knows what we're paying for in Afghanistan. (For me, that's a rhetorical gesture. If the religious people want to take it more seriously that'll work too, no quarrel). And I do fear it's not the last time ...

I'm in my late '50s. I somehow grew up under some kind of assumption that 'we' just don't go round inventing wars any more. And now I see it happening with increasing frequency, it seems to be becoming easier and easier. Regression, indeed. (Europe's "wars of religion" were between Christian sects, and quite horrible enough. I _hate_ to see this approach becoming globalised.)

The CIA create and train terrorist groups to blame for their own false-flag operations. They do that here as well, but in Pakistan he is listened to by his domestic audience, while here you get tarred and feathered by mardy Lardy from St US.

"John: William Nordhaus (professor of economics, Yale) sketched out before the invasion the potential, almost unimaginable, costs"

I remember someone (Syria's Assad ? I could be wrong) warning "It will open the gates of Hell". It always seemed a prety fair summary. (side note on "humanitarian intervention" - the road there is famous for being paved with good intentions).

Book recommendations ? I'll offer Barbara Tuchman's "the March of Folly".

Ian McNee, I thought you might be one of the rare rational people on this blog. The Looming Tower is an incredibly researched, well-argued book about the roots of al-Qaeda in the United States. (If that makes you feel better). Damn American women dared to talk back to Sayyid Qutb, so he knew what was on the horizon back home.

What makes you real silly is that you send me straight to Lenin.

So ... for agricultural practices, should we read up on Trofim Lysenko?

And is Mein Kampf next on your suggested reading list?

Anno,

You're probably the most racist person I've met on any thread, yet I have to read a lecture by you on racism.

But you do seem to have an audience here - Craig Murray and his band of clueless liberal morons need to be flogged more and more. Keep it up.

"at least ISI or Gol are not organizing an assassination of freedom fighters in sovereign countries' territories."

Who would these freedom fighters be?

ISI are certainly known to have had close dealings with Lashkar-e-Taiba who are suspected of going on a killing spree in Mumbai as well as in Kashmir.

Richard, thanks. This book review is badly written but I found it interesting
http://www.stoneschool.com/Reviews/MarchOfFolly.html

Until the sentence: "The Laocoons of this book are destined to be ignored, providing a key reminder of the value of dissent."

Am off to find example of dissent being listened to.

Re cynicism: polls on the ground (local radio, media) were showing around 70 percent of respondents against the invasion at the time. This was, in my experience of a wide range of people, something of an underestimate.

Ian, you write: "The rise of racism and Islamaphobia is a consequence of the US/British imperialist adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq, not the other way around."

Now how do you explain the 2005 Bali bombings?

@Anno....does Gordon Brown have part-time morals which he suspends .....?

NO He is as psychopathic as the one he succeeded. And he won no election.

PS He looks almost pregnant on this trip to Bomb Alley. Should stick to wearing a jacket.

Larry
Don't you think it's rather nasty of judges to send people to jail?
Rather racist against criminals, really.

Mary

Or a straight-jacket?

Isn't it a question of the ONES he succeeded, considering that we have a long history of colonial barbarism in the UK?
We thought that WW2 had brought our leaders to their senses, but it turns out it was only a blip, a pause for breath and dab something on the bruises before the next round.

At least with the Baldrys you know where you stand.

Larry, it suits you, the role of the frustrated cop in the car chase movie, with piles of broken police cars on all sides. And keep making me laugh. The hero of the movie is Islam, and will carry on being so long as the US and its Racist symbiotic fleas, continue to persecute innocent Muslims in countries far from the bankrupt US on the pretence of being the world's superhero... stop it, stop it, my sides are bursting. I haven't laughed and cried so much for years.

No, Larry how do *you* explain the Bali bombings?

Please don't tell me you think it was Al Qaeda - attacking three nations of the 'Coalition of the Willing' (Bali/Oz, Spain & UK) to punish us for invading their enemy.

Anno - I like your comments about exporting values, yes - if only we could actually believe in them enough to be confident they would find their own way on their own merits, instead of the wish to enforce them.

And on Gordon Brown, as hapless. I find it hard to accept that the Prime Minister of the UK is totally without power, but the picture of him as trying to ride the tiger, balance on top of bigger and less visible forces, yes, it seems to make a lot of sense. Hard to avoid, even.

But - you think that these forces are entirely deliberate, in complete control of what they want and what comes of it, and that their main intention is to attack Islam ? I agree there are a lot of voices pushing some "conflict of beliefs" "war of civilisations" agendas ("Our God is bigger than theirs", did you hear that ? Some US general, allegedly. Madness. Primary-school playground madness).
But I can't see that that's what those forces are really after, if they are in such control. It seems to me that people having power and using it to expand their power and to simply enrich themselves (materially), regardless of the consequences to others, has much more power than all the conscious plots in the world.

They know not what they do, and they aren't bothered so long as it shows a profit. In money, in 'security', in 'strategic advantage', whatever

Also, of course, if they ever succeeded in destroying Islam, you think that would be the end of it ? 25 years ago, communism was the bogeyman, but it didn't stop when that was broken. You don't think they'd suddenly discover that something else was utterly incompatible with some-noise-or-other ? Like, ooh, I dunno, China, maybe ?

Always, the 'need' to subdue the incompatible idea just beyond the border.

which leads me to another book recommendation - Ursula leGuin's "the Lathe of Heaven". A world at peace with itself, no human fighting another, anywhere ... aliens have invaded the moon.

Larry: sorry for being a little dismissive of "The Looming Tower" but life is short and while this kind of tract may be interesting (and possibly even accurate on some of the detail) it is not rocket science to figure out that the "Islamic Terror Threat" is largely a self-fulfilling prophecy resulting from US foreign policy.

Likewise the horrific Bali bombing was borne out of a heady cocktail of: (i) a repressive Indonesian government that has alternately flirted with Islamism and repressed it; (ii) resentment of conspicuously wealthy white foreigners having a good time inn a relatively poor country, and (iii) a small clique of fundamentalist Islamists (not happy with this term but struggling to think of something better right now - anyone?) inspired by injustices against Muslims in other parts of the world.

anno & mary: It serves no useful purpose (and it is simply inaccurate) to label Brown as psychotic or solely and anti-Islamic racist. Yes he does have part-time morals, good point, but the ruling class he is beholden to are not narrowly-focussed on the destruction of Islam and he will sell a broad range (if not all) of his morals to them if it is politically necessary at any given juncture.

Richard Robinson makes good points on this. I would expect that in the next 20-30 years there will quite a lot of anti-Chinese hysteria whipped-up in the West due to their increasing economic and military power and foreign policy initiatives to secure critical natural resources.

Kate,

Me too, totally disgusted with Gordon Brown :(

I gave him some sympathy for the attacks on his hand-writing - I thought I detected compassion - I was wrong.

Ian

If the ruling class are not narrowly focussed on the destruction of Islam, that implies that vast, unseen resources are at their disposal. Craig's concern about the cost of the War on Terror is unjustified, and the recession is a myth, to make us idiots run around in circles trying to stay alive instead of thinking about criticising them. The ruling class are completely shielded from the national debt of nations, while they pile on ever increasing amounts of debt.

The ruling class is welcome to the entire wealth of the world but they, and their Racist fleas, will go to hell for their crimes. Why would Gordon Brown want to associate with them, as son of the manse, when he could be winning paradise by opposing their crimes. Of all people a corrupt leader will be punished the most in the hereafter, because they had an opportunity to change the system. A leader who does not sell his principles is worth his weight in gold.

Larry from St.Louis....as you mention Mein Kampf....relax and put your feet up!

http://moronail.net/img/219_Mein_Kampfy_Chair_MEIN_CHAIR_Its_quite_hitler

Thanks for link Dreoilin :)

I missed Harpers and I will take apart every single point and publish in the Washington Post.

"And then there is the Iraqi girl, hands soaked in her dead father's blood, whose little brother does not yet understand that his childhood just came to an end. Fearing for their lives, US soldiers killed the parents in the front seat of the family car. Demons will likely haunt their nights. Stuff happens. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz, bless their souls, will sleep well tonight."

Professor Bernard Chazelle

anno: Again you simply make assertions about what you believe without giving any evidence. You are welcome to your devout faith and I would not dream of challenging your right to hold those beliefs but for most of us that is insufficient to understand the world.

Let us agree to disagree as we will never persuade one another about this.

Richard: You're thinking of Lt. General Boykin, who declared "The enemy is a guy called Satan", and went on to claim, "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1016-01.htm

This sort of thing is nothing new - the US military, the air force in particular, is infested with Christianists, who like to go around with religious symbols on their aircraft, religious inscriptions on guns, baptising, preaching and giving anyone not enthusiastic about their mumbo-jumbo a miserable time.

Langry,

Why do you pose as two posters? I know both 'silly gooses'[sic]

The archbishop of Canterbury has renewed his criticism of Tony Blair by urging the former prime minister to recognise his "absurdity" in the wake of the Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war — and suggesting he read more Dostoevsky.

Repeating a previous quip that Blair is "very strong on God, very weak on irony", Rowan Williams said the former prime minister had perhaps not done enough soul-searching.

Speaking at a lecture on the Russian writer Fyodor Dostoevsky, Williams was asked by an audience member how he viewed Blair's appearance at the hearing last week in the context of his studies of the Crime and Punishment author.

Williams said: "I think Tony Blair is one of the most un-Dostoevskian characters in Britain."

Dostoevsky I believe was the precursor of 20th-century existentialism.

Before Blair decided to preach he should have re-evaluated his concept of caring and thought more about the virtues of humility, submission, and suffering.

I suggest Mr Blair and Mr Brown, it is about time you understood that the individual is solely responsible for giving his own life meaning and living that life passionately and sincerely.

In reality however, like Gordon Brown, you snubbed this suggestion from Robin Cook and went on to murder innocent children by con - vincing the British public that we were in imminent danger from nuclear and biological weapons.

Oh one more thing, Blair - Bush told you Saddam "tried to kill his dad."

Wrong!

For one thing, Saddam, according to the Duelfer Report, was convinced that the CIA had thoroughly penetrated his regime and thus would know not only that he had dismantled his WMD (which the CIA apparently did not), but also would know about his plans for important intelligence operations. Under those circumstances, it is hard to understand why he would then order an assassination attempt on the former U.S. president.

Even more interesting, according to the report, was Saddam's ''complicated'' view of the U.S. While he derived ''prestige'' from being an enemy of the U.S., he also considered it to be ''equally prestigious for him to be an ally of the United States -- and regular entreaties were made during the last decade to explore this alternative''.

Indeed, beginning already in 1991, according to the report, ''very senior Iraqis close to the President made proposals through intermediaries for dialogue with Washington.''

''Baghdad offered flexibility on many issues, including offers to assist in the Israel- Palestine conflict. Moreover, in informal discussions, senior officials allowed that, if Iraq had a security relationship with the United States, it might be inclined to dispense with WMD programs and/or ambitions,'' it added.

The report even concluded that Iraq was willing to be Washington's ''best friend in the region bar none''.

From the report again, Saddam seems to be not a madman, but someone who would understand very well the consequences of an assassination'', notes Gregory Thielmann, a former senior State Department analyst who specialized in Iraq's WMD programs.

So, all is not what it seems, and the reason why America wanted a quick trial and hanging, which by the way, was attended by senior agents of the CIA.(1)

(1)Ahmed al-Neda

Ian - (thanks, btw) "I would expect that in the next 20-30 years there will quite a lot of anti-Chinese hysteria whipped-up in the West due to their increasing economic and military power and foreign policy initiatives to secure critical natural resources."

Indeed. If this long-threatened horror on Iran does come about, this would give a long stright line, more or less from the Med., through Iran, Iran, Afghanistan ... and then, trouble in Xinjiang ... I know what I'd be thinking if I was just beyond the end of that line.

I'm intrigued by various commentary I've seen (can't call any particular recommendations to mind) on how the Chinese are actually doing verynicelythankyou with regard to getting access to resources, all over the place, seemingly by being an alternative to the chaos. While, of course, remaining mindful that the Tibetans don't seem too keen on it ...

Always wondered how long it would take for a backlash against USA imperialist and colonial resource mongering in Indonesia, it was long overdue and Bali seems to have been just the start.
East Timor's Oil resources and possible Ossi development rights of the latter are opposed by Indonesias generals, watch them move with US help.

Gordon was full of his newly found election poll lift, carefull to stress that he cared. His reiteration of how proud he was to have supported the demands of the military in both conflicts will come back to haunt him.

As for the planned TV debate to come, would we miss any important policy or commitment if we do not watch it?

Somehow, I will find something far more significant to seize my interest, I'm sure there must a worm wriggling in my garden.

'And to warn those who say 'Allah has taken a son'. Staggering words that come from their mouths. Indeed they say nothing but a lie' Surah Kahf. Holy Qur'an.
The archbishop may only receive a modest salary of £80K, compare with XPM Blair, but the archbishop should remove the mote of idol-worship from his own eye before he lectures even Tony Blair.

anno,

Thank-you,

Noted.

Larry is an operative in my opinion. Defend Brown if you will, yeah he isn't running the show, but he is complicit in the murder of millions of innocent people, at the very least through his lying and politicing.Possibly in the early days Brown was naive, but he certainly knows the score now. Blair is a psychotic, he showed no remorse and he is incredibly smart. Straw, Blair and Campbell are all war criminals.

Even if the Racist elements of our Establishment have flattened themselves under the carpet underlay for the moment, e.g. the chairman of Lloyds TSB who refused to permit his bank to handle charity money going to Interpal, and allowing for the realpolitik of New Labour being in bed with global neo-colonialism, it is truly astonishing that a leader and chancellor of a New Labour party could look at the issue of the illegal invasions and say, 'This is a military enterprise that our country can afford.' I hope when they build their pipeline, and their frontline concrete weapon-bunkers against Russia, China and India, and relax on the red and green leather of parliament benches, they realise that for the thinking people of this country they have legitimised forever the concept of Islamic Jihad.

"Always wondered how long it would take for a backlash against USA imperialist and colonial resource mongering in Indonesia, it was long overdue and Bali seems to have been just the start."

Are you talking about the Bali bombings? Are you seriously trying to justify them?

technicolour.
Thank you for the William Nordhaus piece--we will never know the true costs of these business-promoted wars--it is not only in dollars and pounds, but in human corruption of the dead and twi-light living kind, who will affect society in future. It's probably as you suggest: wars are grist to the mill for media businesses--they fatten like carrion on the dead.

Richard Robinson:
". . . in a more ideal world it would be startling that this was even worth mentioning".
Of course, you're right, but for that very reason, the obvious, becomes overlooked and the British people, in particular, are so brow-beaten and supine that, they are endangering the quality of life for generations to come.
I marched along with almost two-million others, on February 15th 2003, to Hyde Park, in a demonstration, which would have given the lie to those who thought that, the British people were sold on the rightness of the Iraq invasion/war. Remember also that, we were available representatives of many more, who were not there--in my case two from my family of seven. All those, I spoke with on the march, were aware of the great lie and the rubbish "intelligence" presented for war. Unfortunately, there is no political mechanism to use, to bring the Government before the Public, prior to wars. Referenda, at these times would soon be overruled by obvious need for expediency, but that does not mitigate public stupidity--to believe that such a situation could blow up suddenly to threaten the UK. The length of the military build-up time, would have been long enough for a public inquiry to have been carried out, to investigate Bliar's lies, prior to war. Your last paragraph echoes my feelings and I am a decade older, so the political changes seem just as acute--and mainly unscrupulous in their implementation of political protocol and diplomacy.
In conclusion, the people of Britain need to wake up and defend their country and their children's future from internal suppression and propaganda, as well as any real or contrived external dangers. Americanised dumbing-down methods must be rolled back and more questioning must be encouraged and promoted.

Angry,

Every terrorist act has a justification (some more twisted than others mind), that is what makes it a terrorist act and not just plain murder.

If we try to understand what brings people to commit such acts, maybe we could stop them from happening in the first place.

Anent 'Americanised dumbing-down methods'

Been reading about postmodernism in music and wondering if what we are experiencing is postmodern politics. In postmodern music anything goes, if you can sell it: the only rules are the market rules. Seems apt, looking at Brown at Chilcot. Value-free and content-free, but that will do just fine - or just as well as anything, because the political market, like the musical one, is rigged to offer only pap.

All things are a-flowing, Sage Heracleitus says; But a tawdry
cheapness Shall outlast our days.

Larry, you wrote: "Idiots like you, like Hamas politicians, believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

I missed the hidden references to the Protocols in this article from a few years ago by Ismail Haniyeh:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/10/AR2006071001108.html
In fact, this particular Hamas politician (and elected prime minister) seems to be rather advocating a two-state solution.

Clearly, Larry, you have other writings/speeches/interviews from Ismael Haniyeh that show what he really believes. Larry, please do share these with us.

Otherwise, Larry, some "idiots" might think you are simply repeating racist innuendo.

technicolour.
Thank you for the William Nordhaus piece--we will never know the true costs of these business-promoted wars--it is not only in dollars and pounds, but in human corruption of the dead and twi-light living kind, who will affect society in future. It's probably as you suggest: wars are grist to the mill for media businesses--they fatten like carrion on the dead.

Richard Robinson:
". . . in a more ideal world it would be startling that this was even worth mentioning".
Of course, you're right, but for that very reason, the obvious, becomes overlooked and the British people, in particular, are so brow-beaten and supine that, they are endangering the quality of life for generations to come.
I marched along with almost two-million others, on February 15th 2003, to Hyde Park, in a demonstration, which would have given the lie to those who thought that, the British people were sold on the rightness of the Iraq invasion/war. Remember also that, we were available representatives of many more, who were not there--in my case two from my family of seven. All those, I spoke with on the march, were aware of the great lie and the rubbish "intelligence" presented for war. Unfortunately, there is no political mechanism to use, to bring the Government before the Public, prior to wars. Referenda, at these times would soon be overruled by obvious need for expediency, but that does not mitigate public stupidity--to believe that such a situation could blow up suddenly to threaten the UK. The length of the military build-up time, would have been long enough for a public inquiry to have been carried out, to investigate Bliar's lies, prior to war. Your last paragraph echoes my feelings and I am a decade older, so the political changes seem just as acute--and mainly unscrupulous in their implementation of political protocol and diplomacy.
In conclusion, the people of Britain need to wake up and defend their country and their children's future from internal suppression and propaganda, as well as any real or contrived external dangers. Americanised dumbing-down methods must be rolled back and more questioning must be encouraged and promoted.

anon - "I marched along with almost two-million others"

(I like that attribution ...)

Yes. I did the 'moderate' thing, above, about maybe 'we' would have agreed to pay for it, given the propaganda (beg their pardon, "shaping of public opinion"), and someone else gave opinion polls suggesting otherwise, and, of course there is the demo. Which is all true, and suggests I was wrong (which is fine with me, I like it when other people can strengthen my points). I didn't go on it - I'd arranged to go and do something else before I knew the date, and, having begged favours and pulled a string or two to get there, I didn't quite feel up to backing out; but, on the way to where I ws going, we stopped for a cuppa in Ludlow, Shropshire. I don't know it, it may be a wild hotbed of radicalism, but it looks like a small & quiet town. There was a poster in a shop window giving details of the arrangements to get to the demo - they sent *three* coaches. Wow !, I thought. Perhaps I'm still in shock from realising I was actually with the majority on something, for once.

"Your last paragraph echoes my feelings and I am a decade older, so the political changes seem just as acute--and mainly unscrupulous in their implementation of political protocol and diplomacy."

That last phrase has, perhaps, usually been the norm ?

I should have added something by way of not seeming unaware of the troubles over northern Ireland. But I do have a sort-of "Oh, but that's different" there - from the way it started, I think; a different slant on "humanitarian intervention". Or does that make me a sucker for the propaganda ?

"All things are a-flowing, Sage Heracleitus says"

You never invade the same country twice, nor can you go home.

technicolour - http://www.stoneschool.com/Reviews/MarchOfFolly.html - "The Laocoons of this book are destined to be ignored, providing a key reminder of the value of dissent."

*wince* That's awful. Unless they really meant to suggest it has none.

I'd disagree about 'her greatest book', mind you; I first read her '1914' somewhere in the late 60s, and will read anything else she ever wrote on the strength of that, as I come across them (her 'Stilwell and the Chinese nationalists' one was fascinating, being entirely stuff I'd never heard anything of before). I never realised how difficult 'popular history' must be to manage, until I read some of the others.

It annoyed me greatly when I first read it - disppointment; it felt gimmicky, straitjackety, forcing disparate stuff into a Grand Scheme. But, somewhere between end-of-2001 amd spring-of-2003, things started going 'twang' at the back of my mind. "No, hang on, this is what she was talking about, isn't it ?".

Cameron is now campaigning on a platform of unspecified "Change". Remind you of anyone? Hope and change, unspecified. In other words, more of the same. Obama-style (as he probably likes to think).

Tell us, Angry (and Larry when you get here), do you justify torture?

And if so, of whom?

And what is your justification?

Do you justify detaining people without charge or trial?

Do you justify rendition? Or kidnapping for torture as it's better known?

Do you think habeas corpus should be restored in the US?

Do you think Obama should have the right to assassinate US citizens abroad, because he "suspects" them of "terrorist-related" activities?

Do you think it was right to talk about giving access to court to Guantanamo detainees, while rejecting it for Bagram detainees?

Do you think Obama was right to "cave" on putting KSM on trial in New York?

Why don't you give us some answers for a change? You and Larry sit here picking holes, pulling threads, demanding answers, but when Larry is asked, he can't repond, so he resorts to abuse. Let's see if you're capable of doing otherwise, eh? Because neither of you managed it on the 9/11 thread.

The grey suits behind the Foreign Office, who sent Craig to prepare good relations with Uzbekistan calculated thus:
1/ We have been ripping off Asian countries for a very long time, by selling them financial products which are worthless, and taking loans from them that we do not ever intend to repay.

2/ We need to prepare realistic defense systems inside Asia in order to threaten the rising military might of our Asian competitors.

3/ We need to level flat the counter culture of Islam in Asia. We need willing pimps in the region and need to be ready to throw any amount of money at military and bribery campaigns.

4/ We need to level flat the counter culture of Islam in Africa etc.. the same.

But what the grey suits forgot is that the people of this country, and indeed every country on earth, have principles , and that as fast as the grey suits dig the foundations for their new world order, the rise of horror and compassion of our citizens turns in sympathy towards Islam.

Yes the media have so far kept that tide at bay, with rabid, Racist with a big R for establishment Racism and racist with a small r for BNP level, lies. We will see now what the reaction is to Joe Glenton's jail sentence. Soldiers are use to being made an example of. Grey suits are not used to it. If I was them I would be very uncomfortable indeed with the kind of exposure they receive on blogs like these.

dreoilin, you're a limited thinker, hopelessly stuck in a false dichotomy.

I'd be willing to give you my nuanced answers to those questions, but Craig Murray would delete them.

But three things -

1) You're a 911 nutter, which eliminates you from mature debate. If you really think that the WTC was preplanted with explosives, there's no point in discussing any serious topic with you.

2) You remain hopelessly focused on America.

3) Your question of "Do you think habeas corpus should be restored in the US?" shows just how ill-informed and incurious you are.

Mardy Lardy from St US,

What is your line of argument exactly with dreoilin? I can see the needle, but I can't see any thread.

You're a jew-hating racist; fuck off.

Your Jew hatred is given a pass by Craig Murray and other shady left-wing nutters, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world should have to converse with you.

THE WARNING SIGNS FROM GEORGE OSBORNE

Cameron's lieutenant George Osborne showed his complete lack of economic skills at the recent Canary Wharf convention. His ideals on foreign policy are all the more alarming. Osborne, Cameron's unreconstructed hawk, is one of the mentoring neoconservative trio of MP's Gove, Vaizey and Osborne, the parties driving for Pax Americana.

Osborne enthusiastically acclaimed the 'excellent neoconservative case" for the massacre and plunder of Iraq in 2003 and now denies that the invasion has radicalised Muslim opinion.

Gove and Vaizey are signatories to the statement of principles of the Henry Jackson Society. The society is named after the US Democratic senator who opposed detente with the Soviet Union - campaigns for a "forward strategy" to spread "liberal democracy across the world" through "the full spectrum of 'carrot' capacities, be they diplomatic, economic, cultural or political, but also, when necessary, those 'sticks' of the military domain". Calling for the "maintenance of a strong military with a global expeditionary reach."

The list of Henry Jackson patrons reads like a Who's Who of US foreign-policy hawks: including the former CIA director James Wolsey, William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard, and Richard Perle, former chairman of the Defence Policy Board and the man many see as the architect of the Iraq war.

Cameron himself voted for the Iraq war, believing that to vote no "would have been to break the US-UK alliance which has been the cornerstone of our peace and security". Saddam, according to the new Tory saviour, posed a threat not just to the Middle East region, but "to the world", and like all good neocons Cameron blamed the conflict on the French and their promise to veto any second UN security council resolution.

The strategy has not worked. Slowly but surely the British public are realising the 'change' mastered by guru Daniel Finkelstein is a return to 1980's economics, a hostile attitude to Europe and British participation in military invasions of Iran and Syria or any other country the 'Great Satan' that is the US decides to attack. Thank God Britain is blessed with great thinkers and those that can read the small print! Twice now Cameron has been seen entering or leaving MI5 headquarters.

Larry

This tea party is the same as the US tea party, for the same reasons but different objectives. We want, we don't want, we are going to get more conservatism, because if they win the election New Labour will devalue the pound and all sorts of other commercial sins we call the Welfare State. You want, you don't want, you are going to get Liberalism, because now they have won the election the US needs a good guy to cover up America's recent crimes.

We only come here for the tea, we know nothing we say is going to change anything. Why not sip tea politely with us together and face the reality with a peaceful exchange of small-talk and amusing anecdotes to pass the time?

"I'd be willing to give you my nuanced answers to those questions, but Craig Murray would delete them."--Larry the lawyer

He didn't delete you when you said to me, "Shut up you dishonest pretend-fence-sitting cunt" on the 9/11 thread, so he's not going to delete your answers to the above. You will never post your 'nuanced answers' -- you don't have any and couldn't argue them.

"You're a 911 nutter, which eliminates you from mature debate"

You're a slinger of mud and abuse who can't answer anything, which eliminates you from all debate.

"You remain hopelessly focused on America"

And you find that strange? It's where all this "Global War on Terror" started, Larry. (Didn't you know??)

Shame you kicked your credibility to kingdom come, but it's what I expected.
Maybe Angry can do better.

"Why not sip tea politely with us together and face the reality with a peaceful exchange of small-talk and amusing anecdotes to pass the time?"

I know someone who used to talk about forming a band called "Tea, Vicar", all for the sake of the name of its second LP.

"you're a limited thinker, hopelessly stuck in a false dichotomy"

That, Larry, is projection on your part. I sometimes wonder if your pouncing on "anti-semitism" here is in the same category.

I fear me there is a difference between a "limited thinker" and someone who holds you to the point, so you don't get away with not answering questions. Hence your fury on the "other" thread.

Have a nice day

"mature debate", eh ?

If Hurt Locker wins Best Picture tonight at the Oscars, you may remember that I brought it up here and CheebaCow replied. It's a very well-made and tense film, but it invites all of your sympathy for the bomb disposal unit of an invading army, and the Iraqis in the film are cardboard cut-outs. It's worth watching -- but only if you want to see a portrayal of addiction to war.

Tea, vicar?

dreoilin, you do realize that Anno has repeatedly made reference to a cabal of secret Zionist bankers, don't you? He's also said a number of other things about Jewish people straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

What would it take for you people to think slightly poorly of a Muslim fascist?

Craig, Last night Larry from St. Louis posted another derogatory smear against me as a comment to your BLOG dated March 3, 2010 headlined “Rare TV Appearance”. My comment in response to Larry was removed, yet Larry’s slanderous comments remained. I have now put my comment in again under “Rare TV Appearance”.

I should mention that the Larry Smear Team has no knowledge of me whatsoever. They don’t know me from Adam, so they have no basis for making any of the defamatory smears they have made, except that they are paid to make their filthy accusations. I have been asking for some months now for Larry’s contact details, and I note that the Larry Team are too cowardly to supply them.

Larry’s comments are not just one crank spouting off. They are part of a very nasty professionally run campaign against my family, using tactics developed by the former DDR Secret Police “The STASI”. I have reposted my comments since I believe that I should have the right to respond to their smears.

dreoilin, are you saying that the people who lay bombs to murder innocent people are somehow sympathetic characters?

And yes, the focus was on the American soldiers, but I'd hardly call the young boy and the professor cardboard cut-outs.

You really do see the world with quite simple anti-American eyes.

And once again I'll just bet that no one here will attempt to disabuse Roderick of his paranoia that the secret services of the world are terrorizing him because he quit his job.

Roderick, get help. No one is following you. A "hang up" call is occasionally just someone with the wrong number.

Read the WIKI. Note the number of incidents that are independently witnessed - Shots fired at my son, death threat calls (recorded and witnessed), vehicles smashed into property, etc. etc.

Of course we all know that this is coming from the very high establishment (look at the WIKI) who seem able to operate above the law. Thats why it is being covered up, and that's why they have hired low lives like Larry to conduct a smear campaign.

If the Larry Smear Team were honest they would provide their contact details. They don’t know me from Adam, so they have no basis for making any of the defamatory smears they have made, except that they are paid to make their filthy accusations.

It does beg the question – Where is the human rights industry, and why are they scared to look at all this?

Roderick, if that were a true WIKI I'd be able to edit every ENTRY because it's all a load of BULLSHIT.

Three coaches to the demonstration from Ludlow! Agreed, that is impressive. Shows that Middle-England were not only represented, but providing a lead...

I have never understood why the 2 million demonstration wasn't used to bring Blair to his knees in February/early March 2003? Yes, he wriggled about for a week or so, but then carried on as normal. It seems that the antiwar movement lacked leadership at a crucial time.

Charles Kennedy could easily have provided that leadership... as a libdem supporter, I remember being very disappointed. think he must have been badly advised at that time. Once the second resolution didn't get passed (and his voice should have been at its loudest), he went quiet.

And of course, there was Clare Short...

peacewisher - I remember a friend of mine, her daughter hung a humongous great banner out of her window the day after we heard it had started - "Just because it's happening, that doesn't mean it's right".

What I mean is, a lot of vague feeling of obligation to 'rally round in time of crisis'. Or even 'argue the rights and wrongs later, but for now we've provoked a lot of people to want to kill us so there are more urgent things to worry about'.

But, yes, it is a shame there wasn't someone in Kennedy's position to pick it up. Perhaps he thought the fuss would die down & there wouldn't be the votes in it, come a couple of years later ? Even bought the stuff about what a glorious rosepetals-and-candy success it was going to be, and everything successful ?

I guess there must have been monster amounts of behind-the-scenes pressure, too, on people who thought they had things to lose.

@ peacewisher

Tony Benn was the de facto leader of the anti-war campaign in his capacity as president of Stop the War Campaign.

I said this -

Not totally distinguished company. It's a pity Benn did not support the move to have Blair arraigned as a war criminal. He also canvassed on the phone for Blair in the last election. He is just a phony and a windbag.

'A letter was signed by over 4000 people, including this author, which sought the arraignment of Blair and his cabal for war crimes. It was addressed to Kofi Annan and headed by Tony Benn, president of STWC. A meeting to make a final decision is recorded thus in Tony's new diary:-
'Lindsey German and Nicholas Wood came to see me about the next stage in the campaign on the war crime question, about how we could advance the cause of the letter. There’s been no coverage in the press, although Kofi Annan has replied. We went on to discuss the whole question really of whether we were demanding a war crimes tribunal. My view is that you shouldn’t do that. I think it’s a complete waste of effort trying to put Blair and Bush on trial : (a) it won’t happen; (b) it’s so negative: ( c) it’s all about personalities.' -

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8141

Posted by: mary at January 8, 2009 8:58 PM

on Craig's piece In Distinguished Company of the same date.
www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/01/in_distinguishe.html

"I guess there must have been monster amounts of behind-the-scenes pressure, too, on people who thought they had things to lose".

This must have concerned the whole of Parliament--since the "immediate threat" from Iraq was so poorly debated in the Commons, as to its truth--they might have been deciding the date for a Boy Scout Jamboree.

Yes Richard, I also got a lot of "verbal" for daring to protest the war after it had started. Someone even stopped their car and asked us not to be so silly, because "we are winning..."

I also remember staring at at the TVs on display in a shop window showing live video from that eerie green Baghdad skyline, and the blasts going on right across the city. Others stared... and stared... almost in disbelief. Later, I heard on a news report that no civilian casualties had been reported... it was a very dark day.

But only a month earlier, I remembered clambering onto a half empty tube train in the suburbs, and watching it fill with people as it clattered towards Embankment. There were a few banners in evidence, but not too many. I assumed most were shoppers or sightseers.

Then, at Embankment, the doors opened, and the whole trainload seemed to pour out, and we all took our places at the back of what would be a massive demonstration of people power. Yes, the people took over London that day, and they shouldn't have budged until Blair responded (the Ukranians showed us how to do it the following year...)

I was disgusted to hear Blair lying his way through the next few days, presumably while the troops were in final preparations. The people could and would have stopped British involvement in that war, at that time, but it seems that politicians lacked the guts to lead us.

Brown has now willingly joined Blair. As with the former, short-term glory and he may even win an election - but long term he'll join Blair's place in history.

Charles Kennedy has also been a patron of the Jewish National Fund as have been and are most leaders of the main British political parties.

http://www.nion.ca/jnf-forum-zayid.htm

He said on November 4 2004

2004 - November 4 , Charles Kennedy, Leader of the Liberal Democrats
"We believe in the Liberal values of equal human rights for all, regardless of gender, sexual orientation or faith. Only Israel, of all the countries in the Middle East, underwrites these values by law."

LOL

Although I disagree with his views, I concede that John Rentoul sums Brown up correctly in his column in The Independent today. Not sure if URLs are shown here, but if in case they are:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/john-rentoul/john-rentoul-brown-puts-a-tick-by-war-and-moves-on-1917418.html

LOL big time, Mary!

That was of course just after Bush had won the 2004 election, and operations were beginning against Fallujah.

As you have probably realised I don't give a toss if anyone thinks I am mad.

As strange as it may seem, not only have I seen a band called happystate, I have also done a video of them.

It was about 5 years ago, when they were about 15 years old

I sent them the DVD, but they never said thanks

From what I can remember they were all girls, and my daughter knew them but she wasn't old enough to go to gigs without being arrested on the way home.

A google search reveals nothing, so they probably did something else instead or changed their name.

I still have the original tape

Tony

Why don't you set up your own blog, tony ? It might work a lot better as a main article in its own right than it does as a comment on war funding.

"I was disgusted to hear Blair lying his way through the next few days, presumably while the troops were in final preparations. The people could and would have stopped British involvement in that war, at that time"

Good lord, do you really think so ? We couldn't stop the avalanche while it was little, but if only we'd had a leader down in the valley and shouted louder ...

Seems to me, the more the carefully-timetabled moves kick in, the more investment and the harder to stop.

Hey, the kaiser got second thoughts and told his army to call the whole thing off, in August 1914. The army staff replied that they couldn't do that because it would break the railway timetables and cause national disaster ... wonderful thing, hindsight, eh ? (It's not as surreal/obsessive as it might sound, disappointingly. The railway timetables were entirely militarised, and all about troop movements).

I can see why Larry is getting more and more desperate.

Norman Finkelstein has a very good article on the demise of support for Israeli fascism and war crimes, even in the US amongst Jews.

http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein03032010.html

Looks like the smear tactics and anti-semitic drivel just aren't working any more.

You people keep expanding the issue to include the entire question of Jewish existence.

I was simply pointing out that Anno is a racist nutter who echoes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the charter of Hamas. I was also pointing out that EVERYONE at this blog (save Angrysoba, of course) seems to support Anno in what he writes.

I would also argue that the Jews did not do 911.

I have no idea what this has to do with Israeli domestic and foreign policy.

"Looks like the smear tactics and anti-semitic drivel just aren't working any more"

Joe, I read an article within the past week, saying that this is being recognised in Israel. About 'anti-semitic' accusations, and Israel losing in the PR battle - so to speak. I've just spent the last 15 minutes trying to remember where it was and searching in my History, even checking out Twitter. I remember thinking to myself, "It's about time".

"I was also pointing out that EVERYONE at this blog ..."

You're bored, aren't you ?

Gee I think the issue of anti-Semitism is alive and real when someone who echoes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is met with approval at the blog of a former UK ambassador.

This blog is a good example of anti-Semitism; I'll point others here.

Hi again Richard. Yes, I do think that, and I thought it at the time. But you are probably right that the people would never have stuck their necks out far enough... in our misguided British way, we'd think we've got to much to lose.

But there was a chance... and it wasn't really tried.

we learn from Norman Finkelstein's article that Robin Shepherd, director of international affairs at the London-based Henry Jackson Society, the central thrust of the Conservative Party's foreign policy, asserts that Israel has come under strong criticism in the West not because of its human rights record but because it is a democratic, capitalist state fighting on the front lines alongside the U.S. against the "civilisational" threat posed by radical Islam: The "primary energizing platform in the West" for this "tidal wave of hysteria, deception and distortion against the Jewish state" consists of totalitarian Marxists and left-liberal fellow travelers who, disappointed by the Western proletariat and Third World liberation struggles, have made common cause with "militant Islam" to destroy the liberal-capitalist world order.

I challenge Shepherd's assertion that Israel IS a democratic state, and indeed the only example of one in the Middle East. In recent times Israel's racism is enshrined in the law of return by which any Jew born anywhere in the world has the right to emigrate to Israel and acquire automatic citizenship, whereas the Palestinians expelled in 1948 are denied the right of return.

The Palestinians have become a minority, strangers in their own land. Israel is the only post-world war two state that was established on the basis of the exclusion of the majority of its indigenous inhabitants.

Budgetary discrimination in health, education, housing, culture, and so on, results in Palestinians being relegated to fourth class citizens.

As a result of these policies, one out of every two Israeli Palestinian children lives below the poverty line, with half of all the children in poverty being Palestinian, according to figures released by the government in December 2000(Ruth Sinai in Haaretz, December 20th, 2000).

Beyond the law of return, the concept of "democracy" surely includes some notion of inclusiveness, of equality before the law and of opportunity regardless of class, gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity.

For over fifty years, the Israeli state has pursued a policy of systematic discrimination against its Palestinian minority, one rooted in a profound institutionalized racism.

There are huge differences in the amount of state funds allocated to Jewish and Arab development and welfare.

Discrimination against Palestinians is also rife in employment, being particularly marked in public administration.

If one includes the Occupied Territories as part of the area ruled by Israel since 1967, its total population is now over nine million. Of these, the 3.5 million Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza Strip have no vote. Hence, one third of the people do not enjoy a series of basic rights which make up the pillars of liberal democracy.

Craig, do yourself a favour, do everyone a favour, block Larry from access to your site. He gives you nothing but mindless abuse.

Angrysoba also disagrees with most of what you say, but, he often puts forward some sort of rational argument, so, we should all be willing to read it.

Occasionally, people like me try to put forward an argument that is prepared to see both sides of a difficult issue. We shouldn't just get shouted out of existence by the likes of Larry!

"We shouldn't just get shouted out of existence by the likes of Larry!"

Whine whine whine.

I do get paid to do this. My superiors will be impressed.

"My superiors will be impressed"

Then they have pitifully low expectations.

First of all, you need to realise that I don't just read and contribute to soft nice liberal websites, like this one

But I also read stuff, on the most hard core Extreme Right Wing Fascist American Websites From The Depths Of Their Own Private Armies and Firing Ranges Where They Are Playing With Their Machine Guns and RPG's Live in Places Like Florida

And I am not going to have these cunts slagging off The British Army

So I said This

"The problem is not our British Soldiers. They will take on any C.U.N.T. and defeat them.

The problem is our Governments

Maybe, one day Our British Army will Protect us From Them

I have been gently suggesting this for years

But the response is always we can't do that, We are British, it would be seen as a Military Coup

I reply such things have happenned before, and the Army would then be in a Position to Arrest All The Suspected War Criminals...

And they reply they would all be on the first plane out

I say I know people who work in the area of border control

They Know All The War Criminals and Can Detect Their False Passports.

Tony

Richard Robinson,

I don't think I have ever read your blog

Tony

"I don't think I have ever read your blog"

That would probably be because I don't do one.

What I do is http://livetunebook.qualmograph.org.uk/
which is a different sort of thing, and wouldn't work in blog format.

Incidentally, I am almost certain Larry is a 9/11 Truther and is about 17 years old.

He is the direct opposite of what he tries to appear to be

He is just trying to wind people up

I'd Guess not In St. Louis - more like a bedsit in Liverpool

Tony

Richard,

That is Great - but did you understand my point?

I perceived your comment, as if you were suggestting that I was not worthy. As if to say, I should not write my words on here.

That I should just write them on my own blog, and invite you to comment on them with your live tunes.

If you are a musician, and want me to write some lyrics for you, then I can probably do the job for you

I got a Grade 5 in "O" Level English Literature and I got a Grade 5 "O" Level in English Language

Tony

"Then they have pitifully low expectations."

Don't worry about it. He's bored, is all. Abuse some people, hope someone'll bite, another pointless round of abuse. It's called "troll", and the only feasible thing to do is not feed it. Motives aren't even worth thinking about, some people just don't seem to to know what else to do, how else to get along or pass the time. I dunno. It's sad, maybe, if you're feeling charitable, but it's not anyone else's problem except his.

Someone called him mardy. Someone else called him an 'operative'. Does that make him a Mardy Grass ?

tony - I was saying "irrelevant", yes, and maybe they'd get more of a response, if you set up your own context where they weren't. But WTF, it's late, and I've been drinking too.

(If you've got any songs of your own you'd be entirely welcome to feed them into that thing if you wanted, but I wasn't really meaning to have a fit of advertising).

"Worthy" is hardly for me to say. Just, I don't see what many of them have to do with the price of fish.

I've told you before about mentioning fish.

I knew absolutely nothing about it, but my wife said come on We are going to see this, and we took our Indian Friend who went to College There.

Within The First 10 Minutes

I KNEW That Slumdog Millionaire Would Win All The Oscars

This Year - Well I thought it was going to be crap

But Michael Caine was Brilliant in Harry Brown

I would however suggest NETWORK made in 1976

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958/awards

Tony

*grin*. Where is Arsalan ? I'll have to try and remember the name of that blog he talked about setting up, at this rate.

Larry

Why not check out why Freeman resigned?
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/03/10/freeman_speaks_out_on_his_exit.

I don't do fantasy.I don't do music. I don't do art.I don't do fiction. I do the truth and reality.

Unlike Freeman and Craig, I resigned when I was at school and I met some of the grey suits who run the UK and its flourishing Empire.

I do not object ONLY to state terrorism sponsored by religious racism. I also object to our own internal UK elite who constantly lie, lie, lie and continue lying until they convince people they are talking the truth.

The Chilcot Inquiry has established that many senior diplomats were uneasy about the Iraq invasion. ALL LIES. Their policy is to offload their share of responsibility on a politician who promised to carry the blame for the Iraq invasion on his shoulders. The entire UK establishment, including both houses of parliament, colluded with Blair against the wishes of the UK population.

Chilcot is part of the crucible in which they clear out their impurities. To a man and to a woman, except for those who resigned in silence and obscurity, they all signed up to the invasion and anybody who objected was bumped off. Craig was removed because he stood against some of the mechanics of the War on Islam. Had he dared to oppose the War itself, he would have also have been finished.

Arsalan probably underwent that small operation at the hands of his wife for dreaming about taking a second wife.

It doesn't really work too well if there are just 3 or 4 or 5 of you - that is just a group

But when it gets up to 6, 7, 8 and 9, then you have got an audience

And when it gets to 10 & 11, then there are more people in the audience than there are on stage

I sometimes wonder how they do it, because if you are playing a new place you have no idea what the audience might be

You just turn up, hump your gear

And you might think it will be like your last gig, with several hundred people screaming for more

And you set it all up, and start at the appointed time, and you have been doing it for 10 minutes and the guy at the bar is thinking how much his boss is paying the band to bring all these customers in

And the band are playing to an audience of ONE - the Barman

And then Us Lot Turn Up

So tonight the band had an audience of 4 - well maybe 10 by the end.

We told them a much better pub and they gave us their CD's

Tony

"Arsalan probably underwent that small operation ..."

Grin. That's no excuse, he's still got his fingers, hasn't he ? Or what does he type with ?

Time for bed, I think. Good night, all.

For Larry, who probably doesn't understand what it is like screwing a thermal...

Well it is like this....

Instead of joining the RAF, you work your bollocks off so that by the time you are 23 you have to try something different

And you join a Gliding Club

And you eventually go solo...

But then you find yourself absolutely fucking miles away from the "gliding range" about 1 mile or so

But you are at 5,500 feet and you got there entirely by your own flying skills

And it is a perfect day

So you think Oh Fuck

You have been taught well, and so you are many miles away

And you realise that you really are going to have to find a field to land in, and then almost at the point of final decision, such that you are going to hopefully land in a field, you get this MASSIVE KICK Up The ARSE

And You Sling Her Over at almost 90 Degrees

And She Sucks You Back Up to 5,500 feet

And when you land back home at the Gliding Club 4 hours later

They Ask

"Where The Fuck Have You Been?"

It was supposed to be 20 minutes max

I had done a retrieve the previous week so I got away with it

Tony

As Jimi Hendrix sings Hey Joe, on the Radio, as a result of what someone here posted today I Read This

"You will by now have seen the statement by Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair reporting that I have withdrawn my previous acceptance of his invitation to chair the National Intelligence Council.

I have concluded that the barrage of libelous distortions of my record would not cease upon my entry into office. The effort to smear me and to destroy my credibility would instead continue. I do not believe the National Intelligence Council could function effectively while its chair was under constant attack by unscrupulous people with a passionate attachment to the views of a political faction in a foreign country. I agreed to chair the NIC to strengthen it and protect it against politicization, not to introduce it to efforts by a special interest group to assert control over it through a protracted political campaign.

As those who know me are well aware, I have greatly enjoyed life since retiring from government. Nothing was further from my mind than a return to public service. When Admiral Blair asked me to chair the NIC I responded that I understood he was “asking me to give my freedom of speech, my leisure, the greater part of my income, subject myself to the mental colonoscopy of a polygraph, and resume a daily commute to a job with long working hours and a daily ration of political abuse.” I added that I wondered “whether there wasn’t some sort of downside to this offer.” I was mindful that no one is indispensable; I am not an exception. It took weeks of reflection for me to conclude that, given the unprecedentedly challenging circumstances in which our country now finds itself abroad and at home, I had no choice but accept the call to return to public service. I thereupon resigned from all positions that I had held and all activities in which I was engaged. I now look forward to returning to private life, freed of all previous obligations.

I am not so immodest as to believe that this controversy was about me rather than issues of public policy. These issues had little to do with the NIC and were not at the heart of what I hoped to contribute to the quality of analysis available to President Obama and his administration. Still, I am saddened by what the controversy and the manner in which the public vitriol of those who devoted themselves to sustaining it have revealed about the state of our civil society. It is apparent that we Americans cannot any longer conduct a serious public discussion or exercise independent judgment about matters of great importance to our country as well as to our allies and friends.

The libels on me and their easily traceable email trails show conclusively that there is a powerful lobby determined to prevent any view other than its own from being aired, still less to factor in American understanding of trends and events in the Middle East. The tactics of the Israel Lobby plumb the depths of dishonor and indecency and include character assassination, selective misquotation, the willful distortion of the record, the fabrication of falsehoods, and an utter disregard for the truth. The aim of this Lobby is control of the policy process through the exercise of a veto over the appointment of people who dispute the wisdom of its views, the substitution of political correctness for analysis, and the exclusion of any and all options for decision by Americans and our government other than those that it favors.

There is a special irony in having been accused of improper regard for the opinions of foreign governments and societies by a group so clearly intent on enforcing adherence to the policies of a foreign government – in this case, the government of Israel. I believe that the inability of the American public to discuss, or the government to consider, any option for US policies in the Middle East opposed by the ruling faction in Israeli politics has allowed that faction to adopt and sustain policies that ultimately threaten the existence of the state of Israel. It is not permitted for anyone in the United States to say so. This is not just a tragedy for Israelis and their neighbors in the Middle East; it is doing widening damage to the national security of the United States.

The outrageous agitation that followed the leak of my pending appointment will be seen by many to raise serious questions about whether the Obama administration will be able to make its own decisions about the Middle East and related issues. I regret that my willingness to serve the new administration has ended by casting doubt on its ability to consider, let alone decide what policies might best serve the interests of the United States rather than those of a Lobby intent on enforcing the will and interests of a foreign government.

In the court of public opinion, unlike a court of law, one is guilty until proven innocent. The speeches from which quotations have been lifted from their context are available for anyone interested in the truth to read. The injustice of the accusations made against me has been obvious to those with open minds. Those who have sought to impugn my character are uninterested in any rebuttal that I or anyone else might make.

Still, for the record: I have never sought to be paid or accepted payment from any foreign government, including Saudi Arabia or China, for any service, nor have I ever spoken on behalf of a foreign government, its interests, or its policies. I have never lobbied any branch of our government for any cause, foreign or domestic. I am my own man, no one else’s, and with my return to private life, I will once again – to my pleasure – serve no master other than myself. I will continue to speak out as I choose on issues of concern to me and other Americans."

WOW

Tony

"And I'd just like to dedicate this to the women and men in the military who risk their lives on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghanistan and around the world. And may they come home safe. Thank you."

The end of Ms Bigelow's acceptance speech for her Best Film Oscar. You can only weep for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, for those children left with birth defects in the aftermath of Fallujah, for those tortured at Abu Ghraib and Bagram and for the millions who have really been H+U+R+T.

What a very sick world we are living in.

I heard Hendrix play Hey Joe on the isle of Femarn in the Baltic, his last open air concert some 14 days before he died. And what apocalyptic setting it was. It was chucking it down all weekend security was 'arranged' by Rockers on bad acid and the stage burned down.

Thanks for that tell all snippet Tony, yet Obama's chief of staff, rumoured to have been scheming behind his back, is seemingly on the way out.
Still the lobbies behind Governments are vast and great, it is no surprise that Israel has got such influence over US foreign policy goals, there might be tales to be told by them.
Avi Shlaims historic account of Israels many attempts at frustrating peace efforts with its neighbours, even if they came from Israel themselves, has tainted my judgement, but then, he's well versed to make these aquisations.

I fear that any of the two major parties will take us to war, they will even collude in a hung Parliament to achieve the aims of a miniscule minority.
All thats left to do now is make enough noise to voters about it.

Mary, I absolutely agree with you, what a sickening spectacle to all those who have lost their relatives and children in Iraq, Fallujah especially, to the explosions and DU coatings of munitions.
Cancers and leukemia are increasing explosively cue to the legacy of our conduct.
I fear that we are readying ourselves for the new attack/war to come, lets hope I'm wrong. BTW., does anybody know as to whether the two Israely missile ships left the Gulf of Hormuz yet? what the heck are they doing there, moreover what would they say to two Iranian navy vessels in the eastern med? would they just look on and watch them?

Be prepared for a grand coalition, after this hung Parliament gets elected, between noLabour and Conservatives, just to make us take part in such a possible world flagration.
be also prepared for China's military actions, because their dependency on Iranian oil and status in the world is being challenged by such a move, they cannot do without some 17-20% cut in their oil.
Wellcome to a western hemisphere dropping into a low trough of facism, creating more hurt and weeping from the east, rightwing dribble and reactionary violence of those who do not understand.

"...yet Obama's chief of staff, rumoured to have been scheming behind his back, is seemingly on the way out.
Still the lobbies behind Governments are vast and great, it is no surprise that Israel has got such influence over US foreign policy goals, there might be tales to be told by them."

Yeah, that scheming hook-nosed money-changing Jew, right?

My guess is that, as a non-American, you never knew of the existence of the position of chief of staff until a Jew held that post under Obama.

Sometimes I think I might start a blog.

When I next get that urge I'll come back to this comment trail to remind myself what an essentially futile exercise it would be :-)

"what an essentially futile exercise"

I know the feeling. I don't always think it is entirely, but I can come close to it - I was reading the articles for years, before I let myself get sucked into joining in. I imagine many other lurkers will understand that (if any of them have bothered to look this far, of course).

Of course, one could think it was always bound to be. I mean, it's not like Craig's invented a magic button that we can all push and have the world instantly be just as we wish, or even and make things change. It's only talk.

And some of that could seem futile, too ... but talking's not always necessarily pointless. I do wish the system could include the concept of a 'killfile', though.

Larry, sometimes you should keep your tongue where you like it best, tickling your own backside.

Good luck with the blog Ian, you need a thick skin as you slug it out with the Larry's of this world.

http://unite.iwannaforum.com/

The blog is here, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to know where it is.

I haven't been here much lately because I'm really busy now. Too busy to even give my wife the excuse she needs to give me an operation.

Slug it out, eh ?

If people want to call each other rude names, that's fine with me, and none of my business amyway. But I wish they could muster the decency to do it somewhere of their own, instead of trampling around breaking other peoples' furniture. "Between consenting adults in private", as they said in a different context.

Hi, Arsalan. I was just noticing you didn't seem to be here in the last several threads, really, & wondering if you'd gone away.

"If people want to call each other rude names"

It tends to be a one-way activity, Richard, if you checked it out you'd see that.

"It tends to be a one-way activity, Richard, if you checked it out you'd see that."

Well, yes, it does, mostly (I have been reading, as well as writing). But the "slug it out" suggested (to me) a hint of a move towards 'tit for tat', which I was hoping to suggest wouldn't help.