Fascist Switzerland Strikes back

by craig on March 4, 2013 10:53 am in Uncategorized

Switzerland will still go to any lengths to protect the ultra-rich dictators and mafia who flock there. Mutabar Tadjibaeva – multiple rape victim, survivor of repeated torture and still dogged human rights activist, is wanted for questioning by Geneva Police for the crime of ringing the bell of Gulnata Karimova’s 25 million dollar house and asking to speak to her.

That is absolutely all she did. I know, as I was there and did it too. We both left our visiting cards, took some photos from the streets so the children of Uzbekistan could see where the profits from their slave labour in the cotton fields went, and then we left on the bus, as we came.

Uzbekistan is the World’s sixth most corrupt country according to Transparency International. I doubt one in ten of the houses in Cologny is bought with earned money. This is Gulnara’s 25 million dollar home, with the cranes then building a massive extension at the back.

I can understand that Gulnara does not want people to know she lives at 7 Rue Prevote (both e’s have acutes), Cologny, Geneva. A weird, weird village that also houses Gulanara’s sister Lola and the children of the Presidents of Kazakhstan and Armenia, among others. There are lterally thousands of CCTV cameras. At this time of year none of the homewoners are there, just security guards in Adidas wear. The only noise is the barking of guard dogs. The 4 wheel drive Porsches, Range Rovers and Mercedes G wagons are sat still and cold on the drives.

That a speaker at the FIDH human rights film festival is harassed in this way is bad enough. But Mutabar was also there to give formal depositions in human rights cases to the United Nations. That dictatorships can use the Geneva police to harass dissidents visitng the UN is scarcely healthy.

Switzerland attempted to clean up its image as the repository of illegal cash by adopting anti money-laundering legislation. But that legislation specifically exempts real estate – you can buy your Cologny mansion without having in any way to declare how you got all that cash. The ever corrupt Swiss exempted it because Switzerland makes money from it. Outbreaks of democracy on the streets of Cologny are liable to be bad for property values – hence the interest of the Geneva police, in the world’s best disguised fascist state.

I wonder in I can interest Occupy and the human rights groups in an annual summer camp for activists at Cologny? Let’s give the Geneva police some more difficult field of anti-democratic harassment than a small torture victim.

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176 Comments

  1. Well done Craig and friend.

    Can we see the photos anywhere?

    This is the Google map short URL for that address. No street view – what a surprise. http://goo.gl/maps/tI2cK It looks like a building site with the crane etc. Is it the one next door?

    Occupy Connaught Street too. Mr and Mrs Bliar’s home, or the main one to be correct.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204154/Tony-Blair-takes-4-2m-loan-central-London-des-res-U-S-bank-advises.html

    Should be easy to spot from the plod presence outside. His protection costs the taxpayers £250k pa and I bet that is an understatement.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2192814/Blairs-400-000-year-taxpayers-Multi-millionaire-ex-PM-enjoys-perks-pension.html

  2. There seems to be an absence of snapshots on google maps of this particular location, I sense it may be your civic duty to place your location shots of the dwelling into the public domain, so we can all enjoy the view.

  3. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:17 am

    The address is No. 7 Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva. Put it in Google maps and use Street View to see the tower crane and the building work that was being done at the time. Also check out her sister’s place across the golf course at No. 14 Chemin Vert, Vandoeuvres, Geneva. While Uzbeks struggle to get forex at the official rate, these two crooks don’t seem to have any problem. The article in L’Hebdo here tells how Lola and her husband overpaid by about 20m Swiss francs (7000 per sq metre when the going rate was half that). Andrew Rosenfeld (yes, one of our Labour party supporters), the vendor probably did not have 24 carat gold loo seats, so I guess the overpayment on the price really was an overpayment due to the easy availability of funds from theft.

  4. Pete

    Don’t worry we will! Absence on google somewhat intersting.

  5. …. the film ‘looking for Gulnara’ coming soon, promise…

  6. Well done! Respect to you and Mutabar for your demonstration against a country which harbours criminals of all nationalities, and protects their ill-gotten gains from being returned to those from whom they stole them.

  7. KarimovaRevengeFantasist

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:51 am

    The link I forgot is here

    http://www.hebdo.ch/la_saga_des_karimova_77690_.html

    “our Labour party…” should have been “your Labour party… ”

    “Switzerland attempted to clean up its image as the repository of illegal cash by adopting anti money-laundering legislation. But that legislation specifically exempts real estate – you can buy your Cologny mansion without having in any way to declare how you got all that cash. The ever corrupt Swiss exempted it because Switzerland makes money from it. ”

    There is a Swiss law to prevent people using money derived from crime to set up home there. Gulnara and Lola may have circumvented scrutiny of their funds by having UN and UNESCO jobs that come with an automatic “autorisation valable de séjour”. There was a formal written question asked by a Mme Lydia Schneider Hausser about it here:

    http://www.ge.ch/grandconseil/data/…/IUE01175A.pdf

  8. Gulnara doesn’t exactly get a good press in the West, nor does her father. If I were them I’d be a bit worried as to the longevity of their operation. It’s almost as if they’re being set up for a future fall.

    Apparently she doesn’t like being called a “dictator’s daughter”.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/12/songs-of-a-tyrant-meet-googoosha-dictators-daughter-and-pop-star/

  9. Kudos old boy !!

  10. KarimovaRevengeFantasist 4 Mar, 2013 – 11:17 am

    I did in the first comment and left a link. There is no street view only the satellite overhead view.

    PS and OT The Cleggovers are using the same school as the Bliars for their eldest child, The London Oratory, a Catholic state school we are told.

  11. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 1:05 pm

    Not to say anything bad about all Swiss nationals but Switzerland is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Yes, yes. Corruption has many faces. It could be blunt and brutal like in Uzbekistan or it could be modern or (white collar) like in Switzerland. Swiss economy is so adopted the nature of money laundering (financial operations in Swiss language) that they are totally depended on this nowadays. It was bad enough when in 70th and 80th Soviet Communist party high flyers ‘invested’ in Switzerland it is much worse now when almost all dictatorships in the world have accounts in Swiss banks and set up companies in Switzerland.

    I am afraid that Swiss government will do nothing against it. It is too important for Switzerland and they care too LITTLE about Human Rights in places like Uzbekistan.

  12. Oh, diddums you. The Swiss population is no more incensed about stuff that doesn’t directly affect them than say, the population of the UK, USA or some other shamocracy. How dare they be the same as us i.e. human. Your use of ‘fascist’ in the title is curious to say the least – feeling emotional? If fascist is reserved for Switzerland, what is left for the truly anti-democratic regimes like the EU and its founding member states.

  13. Above directed at Craig’s article, not Uzbek.

  14. Uzbek,
    have you got a source for all the corruption stuff in the Swiss financial sector? The thing is, although the Swiss in general are probably not all that interested in foreign dictators’ money, they are nowhere near as politically apathetic as people in the UK, and unlike people in the UK they can affect change. So in principle, foreign dictators should not be any more welcome there than say the UK, Luxemburg or any other tax haven.

  15. However the Swiss have just voted to cap executive pay:

    http://www.euractiv.com/euro-finance/swiss-vote-executive-pay-curbs-news-518209

    ‘mon the Swiss.

  16. Evgueni

    You fail entirely to address the question of why the Geneva police wish to question Mutabar Tadjibaeva

  17. They look like big houses! Before my system went down I had discovered that if you leave the 7 off the street name Google maps give it. We just need to know in what direction to go when the Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva meets Ch. Cheneviére-Munier when Ch. Cheneviére-Munier. Advice please Mr. Murray.

  18. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:08 pm

    Evgeuni’s comments have much merit and I second them.

    “Fascist” Switzerland? I don’t think so.

    Your post comes at a particularly curious time when you note that Switzerland is the first country to vote – by popular initiative referendum (this feature of the Swiss Consitution itself being the very antithesis of fascism)a limitation – to limit the amount of money executives can pay themselves and to limit bonuses and golden handshakes and goodbyes to a more decent amount.

    *********

    La vita è bella (ed anche la Svizzera!)

  19. Correction:

    They look like big houses! Before my system went down I had discovered that if you leave the 7 off the street name Google maps shows it. We just need to know in what direction to go when the Chemin de la Prévôté, Cologny, Geneva meets Ch. Cheneviére-Munier, when Ch. Cheneviére-Munier is on the right. Advice please Mr. Murray.

  20. Evgueni, I’ve always appreciated your comments about Direct Democracy in Switzerland, and I tend to accept your arguments that it improves matters for the Swiss. But the substance of Craig’s post highlights a general failing of nation-state democracy; no matter how good it is, no matter how much it heightens citizen involvement within a country, the voters have decreasing direct experience of their country’s influence the further you look beyond their border. For international matters, the feedback process is degraded.

    This does not imply that direct democracy has zero influence upon foreign policy. Matters concerning, for instance, the sending of troops to fight in distant lands, have routes of direct feedback upon the home population, as it is citizens themselves and their friends and relatives who would be sent to fight. But we would expect the effectiveness of the feedback to be diminished beyond the voting boundary.

    Direct Democracy for the entire globe!

  21. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:16 pm

    @ Craig (Murray) :

    You say that someone is wanted for questioning for the “crime” of ringing a doorbell. To classify ringing a doorbell as a crime would indeed be strange : can you enlighten us as to which article of the Swiss Penal Code this action might fall under; idem which article of any of the codes of the Canton or City of Génève?

    Furthermore, I believe it is legal – in Switzerland as in most other countreis – to protect your home with CCTV cameras, guard dogs or any other means provided that these means are not contrary to law. Are these meaans contrary to Swiss law?

  22. Geneva’s an absolute toilet, been once, won’t go again.

  23. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:27 pm

    “Geneva’s an absolute toilet, been once, won’t go aqain”

    Relevance, DtP ?

  24. Let’s not forget that Switzerland’s corruption surfaced big-time during the Iran-Contra scandal, and was not cleaned up by the Swiss legislature or the American Congress, especially John Kerry’s most limited sub-committee inquiry into the massive plot.

    Geneva became the center of the cover-ups when Uwe Barschel, the former premier of West Germany’s Schleswig-Holstein, was murdered in Geneva’s Beau-Rivage Hotel, for wanting answers for Iran-Contra’s use of the province for Its illegal arms shipments. CiA’s Executive Action Chief Ted ‘Blond Ghost’ Shackley apparently lured him there, and had him drugged, and a deadly suppository put up his anus which killed him. He was found, floating in the bathroom tub.

    His murder had been caused by the fiasco which was triggered by the assassination of Sweden’s Olof Palme – what was intended to end the Cold War without nuclear armageddon – and those in the know were dropping like flies or were being rounded up for life-long prison terms to avoid disclosure of the the vast fiasco.

    Barschel would probably have been lured to a hotel in Cologny, but doesn’t have any. The Beau Rivage was only than two miles away, making it the ideal site for the state-sponsored assassination, more and more of which are drawing renewed interest in their unsolved or inadequately solved status.

    Given the USA’s central role in all this, particularly Kerry’s efforts, it doesn’t look like Washington will want to do much about any of it.

  25. Well at least the buses and trains run on time…

  26. Ha! P Philip said that apparently about the Third Reich.

    Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral
    by ANDREW LEVY, Daily Mail

    Last updated at 09:17 06 March 2006

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379036/Prince-Philip-pictured-Nazi-funeral.html

  27. Craig, it’s an interesting situation. Presumably, the police wish to question Mutabar Tadjibaeva because someone at Karimova’s house has made a complaint, presumably fabricated. But the police apparently don’t wish to question you, and yet you were a witness. Probably, the complaint didn’t mention you, for obvious reasons.

    Could this be a silly assumption by the people at Karimova’s house that if you report an “undesirable”, the police will inevitably drag them in and intimidate them, like they would back home? If house security did submit a complaint, the police may have a duty to investigate, even though the complaint was dishonest.

    I’ve read the article by using Guugel Tronslaight, but I’m not sure how to interpret the words “convene” and “mandate”.

  28. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:46 pm

    Evgueni

    It is interesting that you question me on this instead of doing some very basic research on the internet and finding a lot more than below.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/stealing_from_haiti

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/switzerland-identifies-1bn-dictators-assets

    http://www.dailypressdot.com/former-arab-dictators-have-money-in-swiss-banks/757033/

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-Issues/2011/0225/Swiss-freeze-Qaddafi-assets-How-dictators-stash-their-cash-101

    http://en.novayagazeta.ru/politics/8654.html

    And also ‘Currently an estimated 28 percent of all funds held outside the country of origin (sometimes called “offshore” funds) are kept in Switzerland’. Guess whose money are this?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland

  29. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 3:55 pm

    Clark,

    You are right of course that honest swiss police need to investigate a claim made by most certain dishonest people.

    The irony here is that they (honest swiss police) are going to interrogate the victim of multiple physical as well as psychological abuse by the very people who made this (possibly dishonest claim). The bottom line here is that for swiss police (and presumably the government) it is much more convenient (or honest) to deal with people whose hands are deep in human blood (but also whose accounts are in multimillion swiss franks) than with those who suffer abuse and want to just speak to some of their abusers and (possibly) find out answers to some questions that should be concern of any liberal western society (especially the one that of permanent neutrality).

  30. Dr Fischer of Geneva is a great book. Graham Greene was not only a genius as a writer, but a brilliant social analyst, aside from his universally acknowledged genius at dissecting personal ethical dilemmas.

  31. No. 7 Chemin de la Prévôté. (Provost’s Way)

    Cologny is a very pleasant area of Geneva. It has its vile element, but there are nice and decent people living there too. Claude Wolff and his wife Pet Clark, for example.

  32. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:01 pm

    Mr Murray,

    It will be very useful if you could publish photos you have taken of lavish Karimov’s mansions on your web site. They could then be circulated to other Uzbekistan related web sites.

  33. Tris

    Poor Petula Clark – she deserves nicer neighbours (no, that isn’t saracstic or ironic, I mean it).

  34. Habbabkuk

    I do not know why the Geneva police consider ringing the doorbell a crime. Why don’t you phone them up and ask them? I have been trying repeatedly to call their spokesman M. Grosjean and ask, but nobody ever answers the phone.

    Now why don’t you take over and call? The number is 0041224275600. You can then explain to us why the police want to call in Mutabar for questioning, and why that is all perfectly reasonable and OK. Maybe Evgueni can call too.

  35. Another of her scams.

    http://www.rferl.org/content/gulnara-karimova-telecom-bribes-swedish-tv/24796854.html

    Q. What happens when Papa pops his clogs?

    She certainly has a nice long neck for the hangman’s use. In the photo here with another French actor, Delon this time. What’s up with these fading French lotharios?

    http://www.rferl.org/content/karimova_sisters_down_200_million_for_the_year/24412389.html

  36. No that was Lola, not Gulnara.

  37. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:23 pm

    Mary

    She is making billions and moving them out of the country (Uzbekistan), working hard to build her reputation and earn prestige amongst world famous and powerful and you are suggesting here that she has long neck perfectly suitable for hanging?

    I see no logic.

    She will be out of the country (Uzbekistan) well in advance before her brutal father is removed from Ak-Saroy (Presidential Palace in Tashkent) presumably with his foot forward (this is how departed men are removed).

  38. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:24 pm

    Well then change she to them. Both are perfect daughters of their brutal father.

  39. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 4:29 pm

    TI’s numbers are based upon ‘perception’….whose? It would seem surveys of the population, and if that’s correct; it’s the point.

    I think the Public does not associate Banking and the Swiss moneychangers with corruption, and so this sort lawful suppression goes unnoticed, or people assume that if you are being interviewed by the police, there must be some basis within the confines of due process. IOW; if you’re not guilty, why were you arrested? Corruption is endemic. As the chart indicates, no one gets 100, even in ‘perception’. It’s all relative. Much of the genuine corruption, even in the UK and US (73 and 74), is hidden because it is less socially acceptable in some cultures. This includes Sweden and the Swiss, who think theirs doesn’t stink, and this again, is perception…self-perception.

    Switzerland is just as corrupt as any other country or culture. It’s just that some feel constrained to hide their societal warts, while others, like Karimova, decorate them with paid-for bureaucrats.

  40. A dictator or Chairman of a board or a conductor of an orchestra all have a job in running a group, that is instrumental as individuals and that group in producing a satisfying outcome.

    A democracy somehow different more like a jazz piece than a classical one.

    Now as I see it a free style jazz outfit wil deviate but with intentions for a satisfying outcome.

    What we need are either sensible conductors and a decent jazz band and we ought to find a reasonable composition to work from.
    Currently the peice being played is globalisation; a may sound good just need further consideration for the poor and needy.

  41. Industry, commerce and finance are being globalised. Democracy isn’t.

  42. Could this be the residence in question?

    Two shots: one with and one without crane

  43. Uzbek in the UK

    4 Mar, 2013 - 5:05 pm

    Ben

    Unlike you (I presume) I lived in Uzbekistan. It well deserves place number 6 in most corrupt countries’ list. In Uzbekistan one (uzbek citizen) could barely pass border control without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one could barely obtain qualification without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one (uzbek citizen) could barely be registered in capital without not just paying a bribe but being demanded to pay a bribe. In Uzbekistan one could barely exchange local currency onto foreign currency without risking being caught, beaten, imprisoned and then released after paying a bribe. And it goes on and on.

  44. Calum

    Yes, that’s it. Can you tell which one was taken first? No evidence in second one of having used that kind of crane, unless putting in something very substantial underground…

  45. Craig @11:18am, I duckduckgoed “Streisand effect” — it’s actually a Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

    Maybe someone may be able in the future to update Wikipedia with Gulnara and others in the “weird, weird village”

  46. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 5:32 pm

    Jay/clark;

    Direct democracy could be described as a jazz concert, but most democracy is representative, or a Republic. Most people don’t want to have intimacy with the process of making sausage, and they prefer delegating their roles to elected representatives, and this is the crux of the problems with governance. I don’t really lament the low percentage of citizens who actually vote, because the laziness or time constraints of the working class, means they will cast ill-informed ballots, canceling the votes of those who’ve done their homework. Too many use the dartboard-style when they go to the polls. This is not good. Clark, I think democracy is being promulgated, but only as a false-flag for freedom and opportunity. The Oligarchs are recognizing that they must provide a fresh coat of paint to their shenanigans. As Mohandas said “Thousands of British, simply cannot control millions of Indians” (paraphrased)

    Uzbek; I am not saying all are equally corrupt. It’s all relative.

  47. @Mary 4 Mar, 2013 – 3:43 pm

    Ha! P Philip said that apparently about the Third Reich.
    Prince Philip pictured at Nazi funeral

    You’ve reminded me of a bit of O/T tittle tattle. I once attended a craft fair in the grounds of Glamis Castle, the childhood home of the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret. Someone who worked there showed me something interesting.
    The fences on the estate include cast iron ratchet devices for tensioning the wire. Every wire had one wherever there was an extra strong post, a strainer as it’s called, so there were hundreds of them. And every one of these devices had a swastika on it. Perhaps the royals used their family connections to acquire some left over German military equipment.
    I took a photo and sent a copy to Private Eye, but they didn’t use it or even reply. I would imagine they’re still there if anybody wants to create a bit of mischief.
    I’ve still got the original photo somewhere.

  48. Craig, Two more pics. The first (CM3), I guess shows the property before any changes. The second CM4), again shows the crane.

    My guess is that, of the two photo posted previously, the one with the crane (CM2) was taken before the craneless one (CM1)

  49. A Node — what is date of fence? Swastika used to be Indian peace sign or something — my grandmother’s 1930s quilt booklet shows pattern.

    Funny thought, though, in that context, what were they thinking? — maybe good fences make good neighbors? At least it’s not electric wires?

    Wikipedia article covers wide pre/non Nazi use, including in Britain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century#Britain

    and in quilts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century#Use_in_popular_culture

  50. The photo of the house with the crane is the one I gave a link to in the first comment. It is dated 2012. Don’t know about the other one Calum provided as it is a still and you cannot see the Google caption and magnification at the bottom.

  51. A Node (cont’d)

    No mention of Glamis Castle though

    More interesting stuff, does Firefox disable links to “swastika” stories? There’s a link given in wikipedia ref #75 to: http://dmla.clan.lib.nv.us/docs/MUSEUMS/cc/russellexhibits/quilts/quilt2.htm — but which when you click on it, the http:// part disappears and you go nowhere

    same thing happened in my search results on duckduckgo. I searched “swastika quilt pattern 1930s”, and one of the most likely results is this one: http://swastika.dabbox.com/ — you NEED good luck to ever get there.

    (Is it just me in US?)

    Man, this so sucks when my American grandma’s quilt booklet pattern is disappeared!

  52. “Koni 2012” was a fizzle.

    “Gulnara 2013” might fair better.

  53. .. or even fare.

  54. Any legal eagles here please? Your assistance would be appreciated.

    A DFAT document recently released under FOI laws in Australia seems to confirm the existence of the infamous sealed indictment/s for Assange and Wikileaks. It depends what exactly the word “pleadings” means in the context of a Grand Jury. Anyway, there’s six of them, they’ve existed since at least November 2011 and the document in question confirms:

    “just cause for the continued sealing of the documents at issue because, for the reasons stated in the memorandum of the United States, unsealing of the documents at this time would damage an ongoing criminal investigation”

    The 26-page document (pdf) is linked in this article and the section about the sealed “pleadings” is on pages 10/11 of it:

    http://darkernet.in/aussie-fm-lied-on-tv-show-re-wikileaks-grand-jury-proof/

    Actually, here’s the pdf itself:

    http://darkernet.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/dfat-foi-1212-F4791.pdf

  55. Chris Jones

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:06 pm

    This is all well and good but as in most corrupt systems, the corruption happens at the top – it’s the everyday citizens of Switzerland who will suffer from this corruption. Its in the EU’s interest to corrupt Switzerland’s political class and smash its sovereignity so that it blends in to the EU bureaucracy soup.

    Talking about fascism – i really hope that Craig still doesn’t believe all nation states should be destroyed to make way for super banking states like the EU?

  56. Somebody bothered to ask the police spokesperson, it seems:

    http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/geneve/story/Opposante-convoqu-e-par-la-police-11873097
    ‘Il n’a pas précisé les raisons de la convocation de la militante des droits de l’Homme, mais a souligné que la police genevoise n’avait pas établi de mandat à son encontre.’

    It is correct they don’t give a reason, but they emphasize that there was no warrant or any such thing. and referring to her as human rights activist sounds rather friendly.

    Well, Swiss-bashing is very fashionable it seems.

  57. Clark

    http://fr.thefreedictionary.com/convoqu%C3%A9e (ask to attend variant I guess)

    http://fr.thefreedictionary.com/mandat ( Police Warrant presumably)

    So asked to report to police in city of Geneva

    Stressed that no warrant had been issued.

    Well that’s my guess anyway.

  58. Ben Franklin, I suspect that increasing people’s chances to vote actually encourages people to vote more, and to look more deeply into the issues they’re voting about. Maybe people don’t bother to vote because they feel that it doesn’t achieve much, or they agree with some policies from one side and some from the other, but given more versatile choices and a system that actually responds they feel more motivated to get involved. Evgueni’s comments about Swiss democracy (on older threads) seem to support this.

    I agree that people often have too little time to examine political matters, but if people had the power they would probably change that. Keeping the workers over-worked has advantages for the corporate-political system. It robs people of the time they’d need for all sorts of things, like education, doing or making stuff for themselves, building community, and organising themselves to exert political pressure.

  59. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:23 pm

    Arbed; pg 7 has a CC; for London and Stockholm, as well as Chile…hmmm. I think I understand the first two, but Santiago? Is Pinochet back?

  60. Barbara,

    It seems clear it is the newspaper using the term “human rights activist” – not the police. The downplaying by the police stressing that no warrant had been issued, was quite possibly because the press were involved now and they realized it might get awkward.

    What is normal procedure there anyway. In the UK you might, in certain circumstances, be asked to do something voluntarily but be arrested if you don’t. So it’s not really voluntarily. What’s the situation in Switzerland? Would a “request” typically be followed by a warrant if you don’t appear?

  61. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:30 pm

    Clark @ 7:21

    I wasn’t suggesting voter suppression, but voter apathy has many sources. One thing that would help is making Saturday, instead of tuesday voting day. Early voting worked pretty well last November.

    To further my point, I find people just don’t want a participatory government, and feel they have sacrificed enough just showing up to vote. They have pet issues, which are often distorted without the context of the other side, and they allow their ears to be tickled by those who benefit from telling the voter what he/she wants to hear.

  62. Hi Ben,

    Missed that detail, thanks – and, yes, it’s telling that it was also copied to Stockholm given US Ambassador to Australia’s firm assurance on ABC network’s QandA programme a few days ago that the US had absolutely nothing (honest Guv’nor) to do with the Swedish case.

    The only link to Chile I can think of is that’s where the CIA campaign to destabilise Ecuador’s President Correa was based (as revealed to us folks by Craig). Remember too that Sweden’s FM Carl Bildt travelled there only last week to lobby CELAC:

    25/1/13: REGION : Sabotaging CELAC – The US and Sweden
    http://tortillaconsal.com/tortilla/es/node/12421

  63. Mutabar Tadjibaeva…is wanted for questioning by Geneva Police for the crime of ringing the bell of Gulnata Karimova’s 25 million dollar house and asking to speak to her.

    That sounded so familiar — I could hear the gate conversation even — but it turns out that the radio story from last week I’m remembering is this one, about the Elba Esther Gordillo, head of Mexico’s teacher’s union, embezzling millions of dollars from the union, buying a mansion in Coronado, California (ritzy, by San Diego), then turning away members of the teacher’s union who come to call:

    http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/feb/27/mexican-union-boss-accused-embezzlement-has-san-di/

    A video uploaded to YouTube in 2010, apparently produced by union members, shows several members from Tijuana visiting the home, ringing Gordillo’s buzzer, and asking her to come to the door to speak in person. They say they want to discuss grievances with her as their union leader.

    She tells the teacher they are on private property, to which he responds, “Yes, but we also know it’s property you bought with our dues.”

    Gordillo thanks him and hangs up.

    Craig, did you guys post a youtube? You should. In this case, it was Gordillo who got arrested.

  64. ” My guess is that, of the two photo posted previously, the one with the crane (CM2) was taken before the craneless one (CM1) ”
    I puzzled over these a bit, but i think the crane came after. The foliage is very similar between the two with no more than a few months growth visible in the surrounding trees and hedges, but the craneless photo has significant amount of grasses growing along with rubble in the rear of the property which perhaps couldn’t have sprung up in the time since the crane was there. This would mean that large curved structure in the properties rear is now underground.

  65. May be not quite as lax, but London leaves a lot to be desired when it come to real estate ownership. Particularly When layout consider the money laundering hoops every day clients have to go through to carry out the most basic financial transactions. Great piece.

  66. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 7:46 pm

    Clark;

    Was looking for the originator of this basic tenet and found many who shared the credit.

    H.L. Mencken said it best. “People deserve the government they get, and they deserve to get it good and hard.”

    “In democracy you get the goverment you deserve. Alternately you deserve the government you got.”

    ~Josef Heller

    Everything said and done, at the end of the day, we get the government we deserve and deserve the government we get.

    ~ P. Ramakrishnan
    http://www.malaysia.net/aliran/ms991130.htm

    “A people deserve the government they permit.”

    ~attributed to the pseudonym “General R. Never,”
    http://www.stormfront.org/rpo/PORNO.htm

    “In Russia, it is a common saying that every people deserve the government they choose.”

    ~Vladimir Viardo
    http://www.geocities.com/nakamatsu_pian … _0609.html

    I recall what a British prime minister said years ago, “In a democracy you get the government you deserve and you deserve the government you get.”

    ~Duane W. Compton
    http://starbulletin.com/2001/04/26/edit … tters.html

    We have to let these turkeys know that we are not going to play games and go sideways and backwards. America deserves better. They say that you deserve the government you get.

    ~ Eldridge Cleaver
    http://www.newagejournal.com/CLEAVER.HTM

    “We deserve the government that we get. That’s an old adage and it’s really true.”

    ~Patricia Boyd, executive director of the Minnesota Christian Coalition
    http://www.mcchronicle.com/archive/111600/story11y.html

  67. Ben,

    I know who to ask about the meaning of the term “pleadings” in that DFAT document – Marcy Wheeler! I know you’re registered at her Empty Wheel site. Could I ask you to pass her my comment at 6.57pm above please, or paste it at EW? Your info about the cc’s to London, Stockholm and Chile is rather crucial to bring to her attention too.

    Thank you.

  68. Anon – it’s hard to say when you don’t know the details. I just know that it takes forceful trespassing and/or damage to the property to be charged with ‘disturbance of domestic peace’, and this obviously is not the case.

    But if anyone from that fancy neighborhood complained, the police would be legally obligated to hear also Ms. Tadjibaeva.

  69. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:02 pm

    Arbed; No registration necessary. It might get a little convoluted if I proxy a question, but if you ask the original question, and you hit Marcy’s button with a salient issue, she will reply.

    If you tell me which thread (they are abandoned rather quickly) like the current one on Aaron, and apologize for being a little OT, I can draw further attention with a response.

    BTW; Thanks to your CADAL reference, I am culling through a trove of new jellybeans for thought.

    http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/

  70. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:15 pm

    Arbed;

    Jeralyn Merrit is quite good, as well. Very nice lady…..competent attorney.

    http://www.talkleft.com/

  71. Thanks, Ben – I’ve put it on the Quinn Norton’s testimony thread, as that relates also to a heavy-shit Grand Jury – and the Wikileaks and Swartz GJs may be related in some way (as I believe you suspect too). It’s currently awaiting moderation.

  72. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:18 pm

    Jack Balkin and company…..http://balkin.blogspot.com/

  73. Ben, 8.02pm

    Well, my comment is up now on the Quinn Norton thread of Marcy’s site. Do you know if she moderates it herself, and will therefore now have seen my request?

  74. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:32 pm

    Arbed @ 8:17

    I added my comment. With two of us inquiring, she may spend some time unraveling. Or we may find an imminent post on that very subject. She is totally ‘jacked-in’.

  75. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 8:46 pm

    Arbed; I don’t know how quickly. I had forgotten she moderates newcomers. Once you pass muster, it posts immediately.

    FTF; keep the other two links (Jeralyn, Balkin)

  76. Thanks again, Ben – bookmarked those. I’ll wait to see if there’s any response from Marcy first, before I try them. If anyone can unravel exactly what those documents from the Wikileaks Grand Jury are that the US govt has been keeping under wraps for quite a long time now, she can.

  77. When a new contributor’s first comment gets queued for moderation but subsequent ones are published automatically, it usually indicates that the blog is operated by just one person. It makes a blog very easy to moderate. Spam gets queued automatically, and anyone who misbehaves can be reduced to being queued again just by deleting their details from the list of approved contributors.

  78. Ben Franklin, I don’t think that people get the government they deserve. That saying, I think, used to be more true than it is now. The major parties in many countries have become so dominant that most people won’t risk “wasting their vote” upon smaller, less compromised parties and independent candidates. You hear of this repeatedly in two-party politics; good candidates get criticised for standing at all, on the basis that they might “split the vote”.

    Additionally, the techniques used by corporate media to manipulate voters have become more advanced, and the number of media organisations has decreased hugely. It is easy for the media to act in concert and simply ignore minority candidates and parties.

    With only two viable candidates in most constituencies, it is easy for corporations etc. to compromise both sides.

    I think that the traditional forms of democracy are out-of-date. Politics is effectively an arms race, the people versus private power, and the tools available to the people are currently outclassed by the opposition.

  79. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 9:56 pm

    Arbed;

    Marcy has replied…..’twitterings’ Does her answer make sense?

  80. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:08 pm

    Clark @ 9:52

    “The major parties in many countries have become so dominant that most people won’t risk “wasting their vote” upon smaller, less compromised parties and independent candidates.”

    This two-party monopoly may be new in the UK, but not the US. I think it was 1912 when Theodore Roosevelt sought to break the two-party hold with his Bull Moose Party. The average voter looks at the multiple candidates on the ballot like an ‘eye-test’ and has no idea what a ‘split-vote’ is. The change I see is that those folks (the minority of say 25-40%) who actually educate themselves have been immeasurably assisted by the innertubes. (If only Hypatia had such a Library)

    “With only two viable candidates in most constituencies, it is easy for corporations etc. to compromise both sides.”

    Alternative candidates can certainly assist their directives in a close race. The Koch Bros often give contributions in smaller measure to their antagonists, to cover their tracks and hedge the bet some. They don’t want to be completely aced out of the calculation, in case their candidate doesn’t win. (ha, ha)

  81. “I do not know why the Geneva police consider ringing the doorbell a crime. Why don’t you phone them up and ask them? I have been trying repeatedly to call their spokesman M. Grosjean and ask, but nobody ever answers the phone.

    Now why don’t you take over and call? The number is 0041224275600. You can then explain to us why the police want to call in Mutabar for questioning, and why that is all perfectly reasonable and OK. Maybe Evgueni can call too.”

    Habitual Babbler gone quiet–well thats a first.

    Good homework you’ve set, Craig, for our Resident Jokerman.

    Now Warden Babbler, you’ve asked a lot of questions–make sure you come up with the answers. No shirking your homework.

    ELSE, SIX
    OF THE BEST
    WAITING FOR YOU.

    ===

    ” False-hearted judges dying in the webs that they spin
    Only a matter of time ’til the night comes stepping in.”
    –Bob Dylan
    Listen here (W/lyrics and great graphics–sheer poetry): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XSvsFgvWr0

  82. And Warden Habba, btw, why do you address Craig as “@ Craig (Murray)”? Isn’t that his real name?

    Let us not all forget how this fraud announced himself here as ONEIL. Background always shows up!

  83. Craig,

    If you use aerial view on Bing maps you will see the crane, zoom in a bit more and the crane disappears to reveal a brand new tennis court.

  84. For got to add on my previous, I wonder what the human cost of that was.

  85. Blame it on God:

    “God has just completed the creation of world, with its ocean and continents and all the creatures, including the humans. As he surveys his work, an angel points out that there is one small spot in the center of Europe that’s been left blank and empty. The Lord says, ‘I must have overlooked the spot. What shall we do with it?’ And the angel answers, ‘If I may suggest it, Lord why don’t you create a land of milk and honey, called Switzerland—with snow-peaked mountains, streams, forests and green meadows, where cows graze that produce the best milk in the world?’ The Lord replies, ‘That sounds good. And what about the humans there?’ And the angel suggests, ‘Why not make them clean, orderly, and hard-working, with the greatest respect for money?’ And the Lord says, ‘So be it.’ And so it was done. After some time the Lord wants to see what he has created and goes down to Earth. He walks among the mountains, enjoying the beauty of the scenery. After a while he comes to a small village, very clean and orderly. As the day is getting hotter, he feels a bit thirsty. So he walks up to one of the cafés with outdoor tables and chairs. The owner immediately recognizes him and comes running, greeting him with great respect, ‘O Lord, please sit down. It’s an extraordinary honor that You visit our small town and my humble café. Is there anything, anything, that we can do for You?’ The Lord is pleased and says, ‘By Jove, I noticed your splendid cows grazing out there. Give me a tall glass of cold, fresh milk.’ ‘Immediately, O Lord.’ And the man trots off and returns with a tall glass of fresh, cold milk with foam on the top, and places in front of the Lord. He drinks it down with much enjoyment. He’s just getting up from the table when the owner comes running and, with a respectful bow, places a small plate with the strip of paper in front of him. The Lord looks at it and asks the man, ‘What is that?’ The owner bows again and explains, ‘With all due respect, O Lord, that is the bill.’ :-)

  86. Ben, 9.56pm

    Yes, Marcy’s answer does make sense. These six “pleadings” must relate to the 10 November 2011 motion to have the Wikileaks Three’s (Jacob Appelbaum, Birgitta Jonsdottir, Ron Gongripp) Twitter subpoenas unsealed, which was denied. (Though the fact it’s six subpoenas, not three, means that it’s not only Twitter who’s handed over their private user data to the US government…)

    So… that means the sealed indictment for Assange is under paragraph s 22 1(a)(ii) on the previous page – the one with the bloody great X through it and ‘REDACTED’ written across the whole page… 😉

  87. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:40 pm

    Hey, Villager. Harry Lime (The Third Man) had a similar thought….

    ” Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love – they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock”

  88. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    “So… that means the sealed indictment for Assange is under paragraph s 22 1(a)(ii) on the previous page”

    Arbed; Is it as important to know of the SI’s existence, as it is to know it’s content? I’m just not sure what fact you wish to establish.

  89. Craig,
    Good on yer for havin the balls/brassneck to challenge/highlight the issue. – she would have moved to Switzerland to avoid such very worthy knocks on her posh door.
    Getting back to the. UK, your thoughts please on the very recent ruling in favour of Ken Clarkes secret evidence courts

  90. Barbara – “It is correct they don’t give a reason, but they emphasize that there was no warrant or any such thing. and referring to her as human rights activist sounds rather friendly.”

    That is quite glossing over the situation, all she did was call at Gulnara’s compound and she has been asked to account for herself by the police.

  91. Ben Franklin, I strongly believe that human nature is superbly creative, given the right opportunities, so I support giving more power to the voters, along with more free time, better information resources, etc.

    The incredible and rapid improvement in Wikipedia and free (GPL) software are two of the things that have helped to convince me of this; both are collaborative enterprises, based around a set of well formulated rules. Contribution is voluntary and self-motivated. Each person contributes that which seems of value in their own opinion, and the rules encourage convergence upon consensus. Evgueni’s description suggests that Swiss direct democracy has a similar structure.

    Yes, you get “lazy (non) voters” in any democracy, but there’s no reason to believe that any given individual is stuck like that for life. While they abstain, they do no good, but they do no harm either. If at some point such a person starts to develop an interest in some issue, direct democracy provides a system to accept their contribution.

    What I particularly dislike about two party politics is that it creates a sort of “spectator sport” atmosphere, with the voters playing the role of the supporters, cheering on their respective teams, and rejoicing or lamenting the results of elections. It reduces important issues to rivalry and it encourages shallow “personality politics”, individual politicians taking roles like those of sporting heroes. Such stuff is ideal fodder for media sensationalism. But it produces lots of heat and little light.

    You might enjoy this discussion from 2011:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/av-referendum-and-nick-clegg/

    Evgueni joined in at this point:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/av-referendum-and-nick-clegg/#comment-309370

    More excellent contributions from Evgueni here:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/04/tories-and-clegg-out-manouevre-lib-dems-on-banking/#comment-308580

  92. Ben/Clark,

    I remember seeing a George Harrison interview. He said words to the effect “Thats the problem. No matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in.” :-)

  93. Oops didn’t mean to get drawn in and haven’t got the time to do this properly – apologies all. Craig – indeed why did the Geneva police want to question your friend? Presumably they have a duty to investigate complaints, no matter how facetious they are at face value. There may well be preferential treatment for wealthy individuals, as there is here. Are we fascist here in the UK?

    Clark – indeed I agree. Democracy is always local, by its nature. We cannot change that and hence we cannot expect the Swiss to ‘do our democracy for us’. The Uzbeks ultimately must hold Karimovs to account and so on. A couple of things to add to this, one – canton of Geneva is I think the least democratic of the Swiss cantons and this is reflected in the local residents’ “happiness” metric in relation to the other cantons (part of this metric is satisfaction with local government). The other thing is I have no reason to believe that the Swiss media are substantially any more free than ours. It is clear that democracy can be subverted – bias by omission is very effective. So there is lots of room for improvement in Switzerland.

    Uzbek – thanks I will follow up. The answer is lack of time…

    Cheers,
    The Ukrainian.

  94. Barbara:

    “Well, Swiss-bashing is very fashionable it seems.”

    Well, Swiss-cashing is very traditional though.

  95. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    4 Mar, 2013 - 11:53 pm

    “Ben Franklin, I strongly believe that human nature is superbly creative, ”

    Clark; I see the same, but I would classify it as ‘potential’. We only use 3-5% of our mental capacity.

    The potential is like the mysterious ‘dark matter’ of our Universe. It’s there, but somehow, we can’t presently access it’s power. I believe this is a construct of ‘will’ and desire. If humans could truly harness this internal power, and delegate it’s authority with sagacity and circumspection, no boundaries of the human spirit would be visible.

  96. Hi Ben, i read Clark as saying that the *essential* Nature of Humans is creative. It is another matter then humans have drifted far from their Nature.

    Btw can you please clarify what you mean by ” I believe this is a construct of ‘will’ and desire.”

    Also, btw, that Swiss joke i posted above i heard from Krishnamurti.

  97. @Clark

    Late … as usual

    In case nobody gave an explanation (which on a thread like this I find unlikely) a ‘convocation’ in French is a formal summons (although if you don’t answer it there’s not a lot that the police can do) and a ‘mandat’ is issued usually by a court … the nearest we come to it in English is ‘warrant’.

  98. Indigo

    Thanks, that is important.

    I used to deal with this sort of thing all the time when Resident Clerk in the Foreign Office. Such complaints are made frequently in London by diplomatic missions against demonstrators. The Metropolitan Police do NOT try to track down and question people purely on the basis that a foregin mission made a complaint about them. British authorities would view such complaints with scepticism unless backed by actual evidence of illegal activity.

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