I hope that some Lib dems will read this page and make representation to Vague Hague. Mordechais incarceration was wrong and so is his continued harrassment, a vindictive signal send out by Israel, as it has no other way of showing its disapproval of international concerns against nuclear arsenals.

It also shows the pettyness inside the Government, attitudes that have led Israel to where it is today.

Feeding on and using Hollocaust guilt to grow into what has now become a reactionary rogue nation, as yet without internationally declared borders, occupying the west bank,the Gholan and sheeba farms, it has not shown any longterm capacity to deal peacefully with its neighbours and seemingly has no intentions to do so, rather favouring attack and occupation to a steady relationship.
It has an undisclosed secret nuclear arsenal under no one's scrutiny but itself.

We cannot see Israels undisclosed, unscrutinised weapons of Mass destruction in a different light to that of any other state.

Que sera sera

I agree with Amnesty that Mordecai is a prisoner of conscience. Imagine if he was an Iranian or Libyan whistle blower kidnapped form London and tortured. Our government’s consciences would be reactivated pretty fast by the Israelis to secure his release and hail him as a Hero.

They will harass him until he dies. Hey, lets focus on Iran cause they are bad people and if they weaponise their nuclear stock we are all done for. There are other ways to create a nuke, and it does not require a reactor. Missing nukes, missing cruise. To be accurate no country has any idea what Iran are doing, or intentions. There are three points in time as far as the Yanks are concerned,
They have known for some time
have just found out
will find out in future

Everything else is garbage. An attack on Iran will be very bad, an extraordinary event in our history. Talking to Iran is positive, imposing sanctions is not and counterproductive.
But the yanks like to weaken a country before they go in. This one will be different.
They found out previously what Iran really is doing
They have just found out
They will soon find out

If anything coming out does not match the above the information is cu

The Key, Craig!!! der Schluessel, hallo, send it off please, they are waiting for it.
Its the most complicated key in your collection, made from brass and its in one of your pockets.

Craig,
I share your thoughts on this. Shame on the Times for not taking more care of him back when he blew the whistle. It should have been clear that he would be a target. An unfortunate consequence of the hitler diary debacle was that they held off and in his frustration Mordechai went to the Sunday Mirror. Big mistake! Queue maxwell tipping off the mossad. And hatari - he wasn't kidnapped from London - they just used the honeytrap (US blonde student 'cindy') in London - meeting in trafalgar square. It wasn't until they got to Rome that the kidnapping took place. El Al planes are seen as israeli territory so once drugged and on the gurney in the ambulance to the airport his fate was sealed.

-Control

Israel is a criminal, racist, terrorist and thuggish state with friends in this country's government and that of every other western nation.

That means something.

It means that when you attack it you must expect the response of the terrorist thug.

You wouldn't walk up to a gang of thugs late at night on your own and tell them off.

Why would you expect with words to make any impression upon the most powerful terrorist state on the planet?

This is the world in which we live.

Friends of Israel,

I might talk to some dodgy characters down the pub, but I don't go on "holiday" with them - with them paying ALL my expenses - like MP's from ALL our main parties do.

Tony

Careful Craig! You don't want to be in some mysterious car accident now. Pity you don't seem to mind state-thuggery so much when your Austrian ideological opponents are murdered by the same brigade though.

tony_opmoc

You're obviously an anti-semite.

I demand that Craig remove your noxious comments from the forum with forth.

Don't worry Tony.

That Friends of Gaza poster is obviously an imposter.

Gaza has no friends.

If you stop killing us, we can do more stuff like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29H17jzWhec&feature=related

Israel has one of the most punitive, vindictive regimes anywhere. Vanunu is no threat, has no more useful information, yet in order to teach him, and others, a lesson, he will be punished until the day he dies.As will Palestinian peaceful demonstrators, Israeli peace groups, human rights organisations etc etc. This also includes any group in the west who dare bring to light the appalling racist and aggressive policies which are routine in Israel. The nuTory regime will of course tut tut and do absolutely nothing to stand up for human and civil rights in Israel/Palestine.Really, they make the white South African government that was look almost benign.

Ian M,

We got rid of them by singing them away at Wembley Stadium

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFnJmz5pWc4

Tony

Tony Rogers,

I am against state killings full stop. But it is true I don't waste my tears on dead Nazis.

As a US citizen journalist, I too feel your frustration with The Media!

My May 13, 2010 email to Amnesty International:

press@amnesty.org

Dear Amnesty International,

Thank you for your PRESS RELEASE of May 12, 2010 regarding Mordechai Vanunu.

I offer you a few more facts:

The restrictions that have held Vanunu captive come from the Emergency Defense Regulations which were implemented by Britain against Palestinians and Jews after World War II.

Attorney Yaccov Shapiro, who later became Israel's Minister Of Justice, described the Emergency Defense Regulations as "unparalleled in any civilized country: there were no such laws in Nazi Germany."

Israel kidnapped Vanunu in 1986, but Article 9 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights states: "No one shall he subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention", including abduction of a person by agents of one state to another state.

Vanunu was charged with and convicted of treason and espionage.

Section 99 of the Israeli Penal Code, treason is defined as "an act calculated to assist (an enemy) in time of war...delivering information with the intention that it fall into the hands of the enemy."

Section 113 defines aggravated espionage as "deliver(ing) any secret information without being authorized to do so and with intent to impair the security of the state" and a sub-clause provides for a penalty of seven years for the unauthorized collection, preparation, recording or holding of secret information; if this is done with intent to impair the security of the state and then, the penalty is increased to 15 years.

Vanunu served 18 years in jail and has been subjected to 24/7 surveillance ever since 21 April 2004.

Frank Barnaby, the Nuclear Physicist, who was hired by the London Sunday Times to interrogate Vanunu, testified at his closed door trial, "I very vigorously cross-examined Vanunu, relentlessly asking the same questions in a number of different ways and at different times...I found Vanunu very straightforward about his motives for violating Israel's secrecy laws he explained to me that he believed that both the Israeli and the world public had the right to know about the information he passed on. He seemed to me to be acting ideologically."

But, Vanunu was rendered defenseless during that closed door trial when the court ruled that his motivations were not ideological and they refused to allow Vanunu's own statements regarding his intentions to even be considered in his defense.

During my interviews with Vanunu, he informed me that, "All the secrets I had were published in 1989 in an important book, by Frank Barnaby, The Invisible Bomb: Nuclear Arms Race in the Middle East."

On November 24th, 2006 Vanunu wrote:

"My lawyer succeeded to reveal a few very important facts: This General of the Army also was not allowed to see all the secrets that he is required to protect by these restrictions that they claim I know them. So, he gave orders of restrictions without knowing what he is protecting or that he is also following orders blindly, and Mossad Sheen Bet using its authority for just punishing me. He testified that it is not a crime for me to talk with foreigners in general anywhere. He testified that I can speak freely to any Israeli citizens about anything; it is not his concern what I am saying to them. These Israelis can give this information to any foreigners. It was difficult for the Judge to understand why this dichotomy exits between foreigners and Israelis. It means that it is not about secrecy but about something else."

Israel’s statehood was contingent upon upholding the UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

Article 19 affirms: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 13 guarantees: Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

On September 23, 2008, the Jerusalem District Court reduced Mordechai Vanunu’s six month jail sentence for speaking with foreign media in 2004, to three months, "In light of (Vanunu’s) ailing health and the absence of claims that his actions put the country’s security in jeopardy."

In light of the fact that it has been 20 months since that verdict came down, please continue to pressure Israel until they are led to to show mercy and do justice: FREE Vanunu.

Most sincerely,

Eileen Fleming,
Founder of WeAreWideAwake.org
A Feature Correspondent for Arabisto.com
Author of "Keep Hope Alive" and "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"
Producer "30 Minutes with Vanunu" and "13 Minutes with Vanunu"
http://www.youtube.com/user/eileenfleming

Learn More at The Vanunu Saga: 2005-2010

http://wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=660&Itemid=175

"A week ago two Israeli Arabs, Ameer Makhoul from Haifa, the director general of the Ittijah charity, and Omar Said, a member of the Balad political party, were arrested by the Shabak and heavily armed anti-terror squads during night raids on their family apartments.

The two have been accused of passing on information to the Lebanese resistance organisation, Hezbollah. The Shabak again placed a gag on the arrests until a few days ago with some of the details still remaining secret.

Critics argue that the allegations are flimsy at best and have more to do with Makhoul supporting a boycott of Israeli settlement goods and his campaigning for equal rights for Israeli-Arabs.

Speculation is also rife that Makhoul’s brother Amir’s (a former member of the Israeli Knesset) speech to the Knesset, about Israel’s clandestine nuclear armaments and his comments that Israel should begin nuclear disarmament, had already focused security attention on the family.

Makhoul’s arrest comes at a time when the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is slated to discuss Israel’s nuclear programme for the very first time ever at its forthcoming June meeting.

A number of other Palestinian grassroots activists, involved in the Boycott, Disinvestment Sanctions (BDS) campaign and protests against Israel’s separation barrier, remain incarcerated in Israeli jails in administrative detention or without trial. Abdullah Abu Rahme, a member of Bili’in’s village committee against Israel’s separation barrier, which has expropriated large swathes of the village’s land, has been held for more than five months in administrative detention.

The Israeli authorities accuse him of incitement in planning weekly non-violent demonstrations, supported by Israeli and international activists, against the wall as well as possession of arms.

The latter accusation relates to his arrangement of used teargas canisters and rubber-coated metal bullets into a peace sign after the IDF had fired them at protestors.

Another Shabak gag order was placed several weeks ago on the arrest in the West Bank of Turkish national Izzet Shahin, a volunteer for the Turkish NGO Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH).

Izzet is accused of belonging to IHH, an Islamic group outlawed by Israel, and of helping to organise an aid boat to Gaza as part of the flotilla of humanitarian relief which is heading towards the coastal territory at the end of May.

The deportation several weeks ago of a famous Spanish clown from Israel’s Ben Gurion international airport on the grounds he intended to make contact with "terror organisations" while in Ramallah has seen some Israeli commentators calling the Shabak "the real clowns".

Ivan Prado had planned to take part in an international clown festival in Ramallah but after six hours of interrogation by the Shabak he was refused entry to Israel and deported to Spain on "security grounds".

The incident caused embarrassment at the Israeli Foreign Ministry and heightened tensions with the Spanish government.

Meanwhile, a number of Israeli leftists are facing trial for "rioting and assaulting police" during a non-violent protest in the East Jerusalem suburb of Sheikh Jarrah. They were protesting Israel’s building of illegal Jewish settlements and Judaisation of the neighbourhood at the expense of the Palestinian locals.

The protestors claim the charges are trumped up and they were arrested after they refused to disperse during a demonstration approved by an Israeli court.

In another development, IDF military intelligence has also caught flak for over-ruling an Israeli court decision to fully open a main highway in the West Bank to Palestinian motorists.

Highway 443 has been used by Jewish settlers exclusively for years even though it is built on Palestinian land and it runs alongside many Palestinian villages.

Despite the court ruling the IDF will only open parts of the highway to Palestinian motorists and only after extensive security checks at roadblocks at the highway’s entrance.

In further breaking news several Palestinian medical students have been refused entry permits to Jerusalem to continue their studies at Jerusalem’s Al Quds University after they refused to spy for the Shabak on student activity there.

The Shabak declined to discuss the issue other than to say the permits had been denied "on security grounds."

Courtesy IBS

Insider Tip:

Control orders to be expanded - Conservative proposal.

The government will push ahead with control orders despite damning judgments from the courts and hostile criticism from civil liberties campaigners.

The draft order to renew control orders was put before parliament today by Alan Johnson, home secretary. The government must renew the control order legislation each year.

Lib Dem opposition? Ha! Non-existant

From Eileen Fleming's website wearewideawake.org...

"Vanunu will return to jail on May 23, 2010. The ‘justices’ refused his offer to do community service in occupied east Jerusalem, because they do not view that side of town to be a part of their community. "

Do Something:

Send Vanunu a message of support through his website @ http://vanunu.com/

Tony

This new government will ignore the mistreatment of Vanunu. Remember that our new Foreign Minister is a Friend of Israel along with at least another 80 Tory MPs. This is the biggest disappointment of the election. Westminster remains Israeli-occupied territory. The neo-consensus has been preserved.

Two of my children worked for Amnesty International only to find that when we needed help they ran the other way. For those who hold Amnesty International in high regard, have a look at this.

http://tinyurl.com/HumanRightsIndustry

It shows clear evidence that a human rights organization has been penetrated by the intelligence services

I learnt the secret to life, when I was 3 years old. If he is trying to steal your girlfriend and you are obviously physically inferior, there are always ways to defeat your enemy.

O.K., it might have been a bit nasty and caused a bit of an outrage, but he didn't come back.

My Mum too was a Childminder.

You've got to stand up to the bullies even if you end up all bruised, bloodied and battered.

Tony

Now let us await the arrival of the disruptors...

As I said on another thread, it's about human beings, and Vanunu is a wonderful human being. Good on you, Craig, for bringing this to everyone's attention.

Roderick,

Let me take a moment to commiserate with you.

Chemtrails everywhere, following me around. I look up - there they are. Why am I being targeted?

I've brought this to the attention of NASA, the JPL, UNICEF, the Permanent Court of International Justice, the Liverpool City Council, George Clooney, Médecins Sans Frontières, We Are Change Glasgow and my former kindergarten teacher.

They rarely write back. And if they do write back, it's the same run-around that Amnesty gave you.

So I've concluded what you've concluded - they all must be in collusion with those unseen forces that are polluting my mind with their atmospheric manganese sulfite.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if George Clooney himself were flying an MSF airplane bought and paid for by NASA.

They're all out to get me!

We really need to stick together!

Wow! That was quick! They must be on double espressos! Do you get to claim reimbursement for double espressos, Larry?

I did however use a different technique in Israel...

Well it wasn't really Israel, but the Sinai Peninsular - which they had occupied after one of the previous wars.

To be perfectly honest, the diving and snorkelling was absolutely Brilliant...

But we went there for our Kids - cos they are like Fish

The security was absolutely aweful...

We had to go through a security scanner to get in our hotel...

And my wife and I like to mix with the local people and travel freely...

So when our kids were off on a diving trip...

We just walked, and kept on walking...

For miles and miles along the beach

We got well out of the security zone

"You will have no protection beyond this point"

"We do not want any fucking protection"

And so my wife was wearing just her bikini and a sarong...

And this bloke came up to us on his Camel...

And my wife has a thing about Camels...

He said - "Can I give you a ride"

I said - well you can take her, but I will walk if you don't mind (We had both previously done this stuff in the South of Tunisia - way beyond Matmata where they Filmed Star Wars)

So she had her ride on his Camel...

And then he asked for a ridiculous amount of money to return my wife to me...

I said no - you can keep her...

And then this bloke on a Camel got out his Mobile phone and said..

He won't pay...

He says we can keep her...

So eventually I paid about £3 to get my wife back

He was a Bedouin - and this time he didn't invite us back to his tent - unlike other Bedouin's we have met in Morocco...

We knew it was all a game

Tony

Very sad to see the persecution of Vanunu is continuing still, long after having served his inhuman and disproportionate sentence of prolonged solitary confinement. Glad to see Amnesty is finally taking up his case. I hope those who manage to find the time to write hundreds of words here in the comments section will take the trouble to write a few to their MPs regarding the plight of both Mordechai Vanunu and Maksim Popov.

Suhayl Saadi, if you really think that the government is engaged in disinformation on this website, you're probably a victim of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Your crazy is just one tiny bit less crazy than that of Roderick Russell.

States... are beasts. That is when they feel threatened, they crush the threat, without mercy. Both Craig and Vanunu know how this feels.

One is either, loyal and on the inside, where much is tollerated, and protection is given; or one is on the outside, and fair game.

The whistleblower, or "traitor" is particularly at risk, because the Great Beast hates the "traitor" most of all, because one has rejected the "love" of the state and spurned it, probably the worst crime of all, and therefore examples have to be seen to be made.

Larry, what is it in your own personality that makes you feel the need to give your opinions on the mental competence of others? I know where I stand on these issues and it's probably pretty close to what you believe, but given what we do know about the way our governmemnts behave and how they regularly lie to their electorates, I also undestand why some people come to believe in conspiracy rather than cock up as their default position.

Exactly, writerman. If I were the government of an imperial state/ military alliance, I would be hiring people to do precisely what some individuals appear to be doing on this site. It ought not to be a surprise to anyone. It's how the dynamic works in cyber-space. These are facets of the larger cyber-wars which go on between states.

Owen, thanks for your sanguine comment. Btw, 'Conspiracy' emphatically is not my default position. My comments are directed very specifically.

Well, you know, Craig Murray did label me an "agent provocateur" way back when. And now Suhayl is constantly pestering me about being a government agent. There's only so much of this I can take before I take it up a notch and bring up 911 every day.

Owen Lee Hugh-Mann,

How can I change my MP's mind?

He has published the money he received from the Israeli's for his trips to Israel.

Everything he has done is completely legal and beyond legal challenge.

I also think he is a decent bloke and a good MP, but he has got this connection that I do not approve of which is why I didn't vote for him...

In many other ways he completely represents my views.

But it is not down to me to tell him to sever his Israeli connections.

That is down to him and his own conscience

Tony

Suhayl: "Btw, 'Conspiracy' emphatically is not my default position."

Now THAT'S funny. You believe that I'm a government agent and that 911 was an inside job, but you're so much smarter than those silly conspiracy theorists.

Face it, Suhayl, you threw away a medical career to pursue being a nut.

Larry, I have never asserted any such thing about 9/11 and please do not state that I did. I have no idea what you are or might be, Larry. You perhaps display your provenance at every pillar and every post.

How do you know I "threw away a medical career"? That too is inaccurate.

"I have no idea what you are or might be, Larry."

Right, now you back off. After repeatedly accusing me of being on the government payroll (because, as you suggested, that's how you would play it).

You're starting to come apart, Suhayl. Will you be blowing yourself up soon?

Suhayl. My comment on the other hand wasn't meant to be specific at all. I was making a general point that had no bearing on any particular comment, yours included and so was not implying what your position is, default or otherwise. I did wonder whether you weren't simply trying to wind Larry up by accusing him of being a stooge though. While paid commentators certainly exist, such is the nature of the internet that I presume they are often surplus to requiremnets. I was merely pointing out that there is a kind of personality trait which leads people to feel the need to rebutt and correct perceived falsehoods, just as there are paranoid traits.

This thread, Larry, is about Vanunu and Israel. Not about me and the fact that I am now confronting your assumed position. And make no mistake, I am confronting your assumed position.

Oh no, I'm not backing off. I suggest that you reveal your provenance, you don't need me to point out the obvious.

Vanunu, Israel. Nuclear weapons.

Me Too

Thanks, Owen. Much appreciated.

Tony. Why do you think that Craig asked people to write to express their concern at Popov's treatment? I marched to protest against the Iraq invasion but had no illusions that it might prevent the war. You've chosen to exercise your right to opt out of democracy. Fair enough. I don't think your MP would be interested in pages describing bands you've seen and your guitar etc ad nauseam anyway.

Sorry, that was me. I'm going out now.

The "Me Too"

I was trying to make a General Point point that all our MP's in all parties should sever their connections to Israel...

Because it doesn't look pretty

And yes I know all about AIPAC

We expect our MP's to represent the views of the People who elected them rather than being paid by the State of Israel

I have no problem with them travelling to Israel providing they pay for it themselves.

And it is Perfectly O.K. to have Israeli Friends.

Tony

"And yes I know all about AIPAC"

Great Tony!

Do you also know about the American Association of Retired Persons?

If not - now you do!

As Suhayl Saadi at May 14, 2010 6:57 PM says – following my earlier comment critical of the human rights industry for being too close to MI6 / CSIS -- “Now let us await the arrival of the disruptors... “ And sure enough it didn’t take long for Larry to appear as we both expected he would.

Larry is a professional smear team whose job is to cast dispersions on those who are over critical of our intelligence services, particularly MI6. He does this by smearing. We have discussed Larry before on this blog, so I won’t reiterate. I admit it - I am critical of our intelligence services and if anybody wants to see why, just click on my name. If you were honest, Larry you would provide us with your team’s contact details. But then your job is not to be honest is it. Just don’t step over the line between what is just nasty comment and what becomes sinister. SOME of the recent professional SMEARS in Canada got so seriously sinister that my family insisted that I report them to the police, which I did earlier in the week - and they are investigating

Larry, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL must be very glad to have MI6 provide them with help from such as you.

Larry. There is obviouly some history between Suhayl and you, perhaps even going back to before I started reading Craig's blog. Internet etiquette leaves a lot to be desired and misunderstandings sometimes arise because the only means of expressing tone is at best an emoticon. A lighthearted or ironic comment may be taken far too seriously. I don't know how seriously Suhayl intends his remarks to you to be taken. My impression, however, is that you adopt a somewhat antagonist position to everyone here in the assumption that we are all "conspiraloons". Perhaps I'm mistaken, or it might simply be a result of past history, such as the "agent-provocateur" remark. I thought the "Will you be blowing yourself up soon?" comment was unjustified, although Suhayl doesn't require anyone else to defend him. Just as an extreme belief does not require us to adopt the extreme opposite position to be able to refute it, even extreme comments and provocation from others don't require us to respond in the same way, however tempting it may be.

Jahweh asleep on the job again. He should have taken these guys out long ago.

Roderick, what's the best piece of evidence that the British government is out to get you for quitting your job?

Larry - you really do come across as a total head-case in this thread, throwing random accusations and personal insults at people.

Larry. Have you read Richard Tomlinson's account of his experiences in "The Big Breach"? I'm sure you're familiar with the case, but just in case, the latter part details the persecution he suffered after trying to take MI6 to a tribunal for unfair dismissal. I'm inclined to believe it's a fairly accurate account, although I can't be 100% sure obviously. (I did meet him when he was on his final training assignemt prior to graduating as an MI6 officer, but I'm not in a position to make a definitive judgement). The lengths the security forces are prepared to go to, (out of petty vindictiveness in his case), are shocking if his account is accurate, and most of it isn't really even disputed, but rather details such as whether it was him or MI6 who posted the names of serving officers on the internet. My point is that if someone is facing such persecution, they deserve our sympathy. If however, the person is a victim of a persecution complex instead, (their paranoia perhaps reinforced by the knowledge that such things do actually happen), surely they are equally deserving of our sympathy. The days in which asylums were allowed to exploit public prurience, (rather than being the shelters for the vulnerable which the name implies), are thankfully long gone.

I should point that this comment is meant generally too, and that I have no knowledge of, and am making no comment about, Roderick Russell's case in particular.

For someone throwing around accusations of mental illness so freely Larry, your irrational and overblown raging rants against anyone criticising the British, Israeli or American governments don't come across as too balanced or normal either.

As you have close ties with scotland and the good laws they have over there compared to the uk.I wonder if you could also speak up about the terrible case of holy grieg and child abuse in scotland,shows the fact that all is not well with the system in place in scotland as well?

Yeah, Vanunu ought to be awarded a Peace Prize. Eileen, that's a fascinating and wonderful website. Amnesty ought really to have declared him a prisoner of conscience 20-odd years ago.

Owen, thanks for your patience, insight and forebearance. I regret summoning this fracas onto this thread.

Interesting, too that you met Tomlinson. I've read his book. His seems to have been an employer-employee dispute that got completely out-of-hand and ought to have been resolved at Personnel level much sooner than it (eventually) was. Nonetheless, this did render something of an insight into the possible mechanics of such organisations.

Have you read Stephen Dorril's opus? Of course, Dorril was never in the service, though he's obviously made a thorough study of it. I would trust his (Dorril's) account much more than I would, officially sanctioned histories. He, along with Robin Ramsay, established Lobster magazine ('parapolitics') in the early 1980s. It's now entirely web-based:

http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/index.php

Whatever they are - trolls, government agents, common or garden twits - they only succeed if we respond. At a rough count, on this thread there have been 3700 words on topic, and 1500 words from or responding to 'Larry'. The on-topic word count is greatly inflated by several very large cut and paste entries (I wish people wouldn't do that either - short quote for flavour, then give the link). so the real situation is that the thread has been utterly hijacked by someone posting a few dozen words.

For fuck's sake, get a grip (especially Suhayl). If you want to tease the trolls, go to the 9/11 thread - that's what it's for.

Suhayl

I subscribed to Lobster for a while but one or two things made me rather wary of it. Can't remember everything now, but one relatively trivial point was one of the writers saying that there was something in psychokinesis, because he'd seen someone cause a pencil to roll across a table by the power of mind alone. I was startled by the naivety, as this is a well known pub trick with a cigarette (back in the days when you could have fags in pubs). While you make mystic gestures over it with your hands, an accomplice blows it.

Okay, Vronsky, thanks, and apologies to you. Point taken. Btw, you must teach me that pub trick sometime!

@Vronsky 9:14

Took the words out of my mouth.

As something in the way of recompense, here is a song about Vanunu which I remember from the 1980s. It's by The Dream Academy. It's shameful that this courageous man is still being subjected to unremitting persecution and denial of human rights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefXdsow21g

Whoever wrote under my name at May 15, 2010 2:07 AM, I would ask you not to do so again. Please choose a distinct name for yourself on this forum.

"Next time you see our political "leaders" banging on about Iranian nuclear weapons, remember Mordechai and consider why Israeli nuclear weapons are never mentioned."

Or for that matter, UN Resolutions. In the press conference given by Hillary Clinton and William Hague yesterday, Mrs. Clinton referred to enforcing UN Resolutions in regard to Iran's nuclear programme.Unsurprisingly, none of the assembled journalists asked if the US and UK would enforce UN Resolutions in regard to Israel, and if not, why not.

"Whoever wrote under my name"

It obviously wasn't you. They're so fricking thick, aren't they?

If you prick us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHy1xpznE48&feature=related

I have to confess that I'm snob and not much of a fan of popular music, but I keep stumbling into difficulties because I can't see the borders. You can google Victor Jara so I'll say no more about that. Stripped to basic visceral humanity, here is The Great Song. We should all be singing it. Maybe we do a bit. Shit, I'm starting to sound like tony_opmoc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW3IgDs-NnA

For Mordechai

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnclarkemusic?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/0/IZq4V8FMghI

Great song. Great poem.

Victor Jara, great Chilean poet and songwriter tortured and murdered by the Pinochet regime. Augusto Pinochet, great friend of Margaret Thatcher, Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon. Pinochet, the mass murderer whom Jack Straw infamously let off the hook.

General Pinochet, along with Ernest Guinness, was one of only two people in the entire history of humanity to recover spontaneously and miraculously from Alzheimer's Disease. That moment, for me , was emblematic of the essential global malevolence of the 'New Labour' project.

Indeed, Jara, Vanunu, it is all one struggle: !Venceremos!

Oh dear. It's all gettin a bit 60s 70s leftie.

Craig won't be pleased.

"Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven!"

Couldn't get the Dylan version

This'll havfta do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaMz8pgua_0&feature=related

"Oh dear. It's all gettin a bit 60s 70s leftie."

Oh well, if we're doing sentimental journeys....words by Hamish Henderson. Nice minimalist DADGAD guitar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwAj15Rjjc&feature=related

Vanunu's arrest is indicative of trend in Israel, a move away from... let's call it "liberal democracy", towards a harsher, stronger type of state, where opposition to the government and its policies is increasingly defined as "subversion", edging towards treason.

At the same time that Vanunu has been detained, two leading Palestinian human rights activists have also run foul of the Israeli regime, for their supposed links with "terrorists".

Increasingly the Israeli regime is targetting peaceful opposition elements, which are regarded as a potentially greater threat to the Zionist, colonial project in the occupied territories, than those devoted to armed resistance.

If the Palestinians where able to organize a mass, peaceful, movement, along the lines of the opposition to the anti-apartheid struggle in South Africa, this could have serious implications for the Israeli state. Therefore the need to crush peaceful opposition. In fact the Israeli regime prefers a terrorist movemnent to not-negotiate with, rather than any alternative.

But in a larger perspective the shift in Israel is part of the preparations for the coming regional war. The attempt to crush what's left of the Palestinian opposition in Gaza, smash Hezbollah in Lebanon, topple the regime in Syria and, finally, destroy the Islamic Revolution in Iran.

Inside the right in Israel all of these separate conflicts are seen as part of a larger whole; the war against terrorism and terror states, that threaten Israeli interests and hegemony over the region.

Vanunu, by his very existance, is a reminder that Israel has several hundred nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them and wipe almost every arab nation off the map, if it needs to in a war. Increasingly it's becoming difficult for Israel to deny the existance of its massive nuclear arsenal, and at the same time pretend that it is threatened by its neighbours and namely Iran. Keeping Vanunu quite is part of the pre-war strategy of denial.

What will be interesting is how will the Liberal Democrats react to the momentum towards another Israeli war of aggression in the Middle East, given some of the attitudes expressed by Nick Clegg.

Given that the Tories are even more pro-Israel than New Labour, and incredibly loyal to Washington and its plans for the future course of its empire, I think the Liberals will fold and meekly support US/Israeli policies.

I wonder if Craig will finally realize, along with many others, that he's been conned; that all the main parties are fundamentally neo-liberal and neo-conservative, and the entire system is an elaborate charade, a form of dictatorship hiding behind the veil of democracy?

"Israel has several hundred nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them and wipe almost every arab nation off the map".

Us too. It's always useful to remember that a substantial portion of Israel's nuclear arsenal is trained on Europe.

Larry,

Seen this?

http://www.coia.org.uk/larry.jpg

writerman,

I reluctantly agree, although I dislike the word 'conned' more mistaken. But that's not a bad thing when aware of the strength of mind at grass-roots. I await the inevitable back-lash, the driving force that exists like a coiled spring behind patience and humility, dormant for years, now positioned to change the course of history.

I've been posting here for a while. Larry: Suhayl may, understandably, be at the end of his tether with you; but that's because you've not engaged with him one whit, except to insult him. You come on here for a fight. Sometimes you've made some points, but you've also been senselessly insulting (calling dreoilin a cunt, for example, and contributing to her leaving the board) and now you're insulting Suhayl. And your other insults are often so repetitious & dull that they might be computer generated. I used to quite enjoy your somewhat anarchic presence on the board but now, oddly, I don't. You do not, I note, ever apologise.

"General Pinochet, along with Ernest Guinness, was one of only two people in the entire history of humanity to recover spontaneously and miraculously from Alzheimer's Disease."

You mean Ernest Saunders, Suhayl, athough he was convicted in the Guiness share trading fraud trial, so it's an understandable error.

I haven't read Stephen Dorril's book, but I'll look out for it. Thanks for the recommendation.

Yeah, of course, that's right, Owen, it was Ernest Saunders, of course. A Freudian slip! Thanks.

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