Due process for Gaddafi? And risking Blair, Bush and Cameron himself being called as witnesses for the *defence*? Much neater a bullet in the temple

God how I wish you had got into what is laughingly called ‘Parliament’ Craig.

Great article Craig. Keep it up. To any honest observer it’s so obvious that each of the events you describe are part and parcel of a single, historical trend: the moral and existential collapse of western (read global) civilization.

I agree with the first part whole heartedly, however craig we do not have stagflation. We have high inflation (5%+) and with more QE the promise of even higher inflation.
.
Inflation is going to be the next big fall out from the bankers bail out. Of course they wont care, but the average man in the street is going to get the shock of his life soon.
.
As a business owner I have seen raw material prices increase by as much as 40%. This obviously gets passed to my customers. We are a primary manufacturing company so as yet these massive increases have not filtered down to the retail markets. It will however, probably within the mext 6 – 8 months.
.
You may as well spend your savings because they are going to be losing value at a rapid pace soon. I wouldnt be suprised to see inflation hit 10%. We are heading for big trouble at an alarming rate.

Well done Mr Murray on spotting correlation between killings and economic decline of the West. It has been noted that in history of civilisations governments always try to bribe crowds with spectacles during economic decay just to keep crowds’ mind preoccupied and destructed from asking awkward questions. This happened in Egypt, Rome, Mayan civilisation and others. Not that I am foretelling anything about Western civilisation but historic correlation is quite strong and cannot be overlooked.
.
On another hand, however, what is happening in the Middle East and North Africa is the result, or more accurately, a consequence of changing World Order. After the end of Cold War and collapse of the USSR West and US in particular remained unchallenged authority with their ideology triumphed over utopian communist ideology. Today, however, times are different. Rise of China and global financial crisis have challenged this over 20 years unchallenged authority and it is natural for the West to play so called preventive game. Of course it comes at the expense of other nations and many have already fallen and many more will fell victims of such game.
.
This make me think that Nietzsche was right and world consist of strong and weak. Everything else is just a folding-screen.

So right Craig. The morals have gone from society. There is a time for laughter, even voyeurism, but yesterday was not it. The greed of bankers, and money-launderers financing our corrupt governments in perpetuating national and international inequality, and the NATO war machine used to keep world peace and protect financial interests seems like a circus on its own, but it is a circus from Hell! It is not a spectacle any right-minded person should want to watch, and certainly not a spectacle for children. Bring on the clowns!

Craig – it’s the old Roman Empire all over again – bread and circuses for the rabble (and not too much bread either – we still need them as cannon fodder).

It appears that some of the less savoury Roman emperors might have been suffering from lead poisoning, from the wine that they were drinking. What, I wonder, has been put in the drink of our current rulers?

We mustn’t wait for the barbarians to rid us of those who are dragging us into an ever-deepening mire.

Keep the peasants happy? Really Craig, to blame the poor for the slaughter as if it is their will being enacted rather than the will of the ruling classes, who revel in the blood lust and profit from it.

Gaddafi’s GREAT SOCIALIST PEOPLE’S LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA and Dale Farm offered alternatives to the one offered humanity by Global Imperialism – mass exploitation, barbarism and slavery. The new fascism will brook no alternative as was shown to the Libyan people who heroically resisted this NATO led ‘rebellion’ – it serves as a warning to us all that the ruling class will do what the fuck it likes and we can be passive observers in it or recognise what is going on, organises and revolt.

“30 months ago, when I explained that Q.E. was another huge transfer to the bankers and predicted it would lead to stagflation, I was widely ridiculed across the web. Now we have the stagflation and everything I predicted has come to pass.”

The Gods of the Copybook Headings are wreaking their vengeance again.

Ten years ago, I saw this coming. The waves of funny money washing round the world could not possibly be part of a sustainable economic engine. Oh how they laughed.

It’s not much satisfaction being right, though, is it?

‘History shows that bloody appetite once aroused feeds upon itself’

A profound poignant and astute sentence Craig.

Absolutely spot on. The craven brutality of our leaders and media will,at end,be visited upon themselves.

Its inevitable.

Saddam,Osama and Gaddafi…all,allegedly,*killed* without due process or uttering a single word to the media.

How covenient,for some.

Of course NATO/Neocons learnt from Milosevic in the dock at the Hague,the dangers of letting their enemies have the oxygen of publicity.These enemies knew too much and where the skeletons were.

Far better just to whack ‘em.

But justice and accountability are killed at the same time,alas.

Unfortunately you are right.
There is no moral compass left anymore.
The US empties its inventory of bombs, Europe pays from money that they hope to make on the back of their Libyan conquest.Immediate problems are sidelined and forgotten.The public got their televised murder to keep them happy and the show rolls on.
There is definitely a blood lust in the air.When a dog gets it you have to put it down because it doesn’t go away. The Mad Dog in North Africa is now NATO.
Who can put this dog down ?

An ironic and timely countrrpoint is that Liam Fox,who oversaw much of the Libyan conflict,was only 3 days ago judged to have poor judgement and potentially to have compromised national security…

Strange days indeed.

You say that it is a “barefaced lie about Gadaffi being killed in the crossfire”. How do you know this? I’m not disputing, just asking how you know that this was not the case?

Craig, reading your analysis is extremely depressing and painful. But necessary. Thanks.

Thedevilis6: from the Guardian —

>>On Friday, a spokesman for the UN high commissioner for human rights in Geneva said the shakily filmed mobile phone footage showing Gaddafi captured and alive but wounded, and then subsequently dead, was “very disturbing”.<<

My Murray,
.
Off topic. Is there anything new on Malyshevs? Have so many emails had any positive effect?

Laurent: Yes, disturbing images. Still don’t see how this proves the crossfire claims are a barefaced lie though… Again, I’m not refuting, just asking what sources Craig is using to back up his rather forthright statement.

Targeted assassination is de rigeur, the norm, insignificant compared to the slaughtered Iraqis or the slaughter of Palestinians, or the slaughtered Afghanis, or the slaughter of Bahraini, Yemeni, or what about the murder of 57 Britons on the underground or the murder of 3000 killed in the towers plus many more GZ workers from lung disease, or the poor dying from hunger, the infirm from cold, the disabled from lack of care; all in plain sight and all attributed to a lust for power, of avarice, covetousness and greed of the 1%, the ruling elite and their political slaves.
.
We are reaching the end of the damnation of Syria, the denouncement of Iran; more destruction and blood are coming, much more; move along or be trampled.
.
So keep typing, keep Googling, keep tweeting, keep exposing lies, keep fear at arms reach, yes, keep up the armchair activism because it makes you feel good. Do they, the nasty care about people in a warm home surrounded by comfort while evil is at play, death inevitable? No! It is too late, the falling blade was missed, the deadly bomb exploded while the connection died…
.

Some however, young, older and ancient will brave the cold, will protest, march, shout, chant in legion, in solidarity for the worlds eye to witness.
.
They have chosen love over fear.
.
When will you?
.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150329879441994

Great praise should be brief. This article – and the perspective of the writer – are wonderfully refreshing. Both are full of truth and common sense.

Dear Craig Murray where did you learn your economics from, and what do you see for the years ahead for the UK?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Mission Accomplished?

Have we not heard that before somewhere?

This is not over.

This is the start of the real chaos and brutality,as in Iraq.

NATO got into bed with al-Quaida here.Is conspiring with an alleged terrorist group not against the law?
Can we expect the NATO leaders to be subject to extraordinary rendition to any number if CIA black sites to be tortured or disappeared for aiding a terrorist group?

Oh dont hold your breath..

The hypocrisy is staggering.

This is How It Will Be:

As NATO expediently got into bed with al-Quaidq here so they will-as planned all along- simply bankroll the same al-Quida to bomb,subvert and terrorise Libya in order for NATO to point at the self same terrorism as a reason why they have to stay indefinitely in Libya to oversee events.

The Libyan people dont stand a chance of steering their own future,alas.

Plus ca change…..

whilst those who killed gaddafi did so out of pure hatred, vengeance (no justification) our use of those images has been for entirely different reasons in that it reflects our fascism, the brutalisation, the debasing of African, Arab, Muslim lives in our society led by government and aided by our media, it is for our supremacist idea of justice justice that we mete out to lesser beings than ourselves.
.
it is about softening the public to greater abuses , inhumanity . to our greater need to look to fascism for our answers.
.
we remain of the same mentality , ignorance and arrogance that first took us into Africa and brutally debased their existence.

I received this today, for what it is worth:
.
Dear ****** *******,

It’s got this way because “you lot” for decades have taken part in legitimising the means of “government”. The writing’s been on the wall for at least 50 years, and it’s not USancentric to say that it was the assassination of Kennedy that probably provided the greatest benchmark (although the people of Hisoshima and Nagasaki would have a legitimate claim to disagree).

What will “you lot” do?

You’ll continue to play the game, won’t you?

The USA appears to have appointed itself ‘Lord High Executioner/Assassin. Like you Craig I find it very disturbing, especially these assassinations by drone. I’ve heard that Brit and US ‘special forces’ have been involved in the Libyan ‘revolution’. I’m wondering if they had anything to do with the killing of MG after his capture. You know the old saying: ‘dead men don’t talk. Rather convenient for our governments to have him dead, just like OBL wouldn’t you say?

Best,

Dave

But today I am worrying about the effect on our society of human death as entertainment.
.
I agree. There is a really despicable element of triumphalism and disregard for legality and justice that is eating away at “Western culture”. I recently started reading Edmund Burke’s “Reflections on the Revolution in France” which is often derided as evidence of Burke’s reactionary bent but which seems very prescient today.

Angrysoba,
.
Standard reply I guess. John has received identical one. Less than 9 hours left to save two souls from prosecution. And yet Nietzsche was right.

sums it up : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2011/oct/20/steve-bell-cameron-gaddafi

@ HardHit

I agree with much of what you say but please clarify who you mean
by ‘you lot’?

Many millions in the West marched against the Iraq war and what good did it do in preventing
our warmongering leaders going ahead?

What are we going to do? you ask.

Do we march again in futile protest? Take to the streets in anger only to be water-cannoned,maybe shot,imprisoned without trial,tortured,disappeared?

These are brutal times and i dont think im being melodramatic.

I ask you now.What would you do?

Uzbek:
.
And yet Nietzsche was right.

.
Nietzsche? I’m a bit confused by this. As much as I enjoyed reading a bit of old Friedrich when I was young I struggle to understand what he was right about. What are you referring to, sir?

Larry Levin

When Mrs Thatcher first decreed that you had to pay bankers lots of money to stop them stealing it, and free their hands in how to manipulate it, people said to me, including my wife whose family have a private bank: Who are you to comment on banking, you’re just a bookbinder and you don’t know anything about money?
But 40 years later we learned the truth of what a minority of us had said at the time. If you still don’t get it, try re-winding your brain and experience the collapse of the banking, commercial and social system a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time. On second thoughts don’t bother, the second wave of bank failure is coming very soon and you can watch it again.

@ Dave P Callaghan

Youre absolutely right Dave,i fear,and its a most disturbing prospect.

The function creep of this mode of extra-judicial killing will,as history shows all too well,become
an increasing norm.The drone kills and growth of dead-eyed,corn-fed,gung-ho mercenary mentality and tactics evident presently in the Middle East will,i fear,come to haunt and infect our own societies in the very near future.

Be very afraid,all.

Nietzche ?

Are you referring to his idea of ‘ that which does not kill me makes me stronger’?

I wonder if Nietzche was ever deported or tortured?

Words are easy,theory and hypothesis are easy,vague sloganeering is easy.

p.s. The second round will be imposed on us by the bankers for not agreeing to take on Syria and Iran. Post Thatcher economics is Zi-conomics. The money is there for the good boys who bomb Muslim countries, but not for the naughty ones who don’t do what they’re told.
The collusion of AlQaida (so-called) fighters and NATO will be popular for a short time. But NATO knows that people blame those who are in front of them. They will be blaming the pseudo-Islamists who have executed Gaddaffi for the chaos in Libya long after they have forgotten about NATO bombs.

Jives,
.
I was referring to his idea of that human order is in hands of giants that stand on the heads and shoulders of midgets and that those giants can at any time sacrifice midgets as midgets are disposable force.
.
Do not get me wrong and I DO NOT like his idea but many issues of present days proves him to be right. And case with Malyshevs who are to be deported just to satisfy Karimov’s appetite proves Nietzsche right too.

@David
I’m experiencing inflation in energy and food costs, and to a lesser extent other general product costs. But my wage is growing less than typical, and far less than inflation. Is that not stagflation?

@ Uzbek in the Uk

Yes i hear you.

Never forget though that giants are very vulnerable should the midgets decide to withdraw their support.
This is the paradox of tyranny.

Regards..

Uzbek:
I was referring to his idea of that human order is in hands of giants that stand on the heads and shoulders of midgets and that those giants can at any time sacrifice midgets as midgets are disposable force.

.
I beg your pardon but where does Nietzsche say this?

We have had a situation in the UK and other EU countries where our so-called politicians(they are just corrupt lawyers & businessmen) are running amok throughout the world and committing treason in their own countries. It is time now to take back of sovereignty and bring all that have worked against their own countrymen to book.

It is also time to be honest and to call a spade for what it is. Never mind all the spin and lies, treason, corruption and fraud are just that, no ifs or buts, being committed by our “leaders”,Sky,the BBC and other propaganda channels.

Gaddaffi may have been a tyrant and all the rest of it but the fact is that the Libyan people had one of the highest standards of living in Africa. Obviously this will no longer be the case when our treasonous and corrupt shysters start to carve up the country and the Libyan people can go to hell.

It amazes me how asleep people in the EU are and if they don’t start waking up and doing something about it, they will all be serfs in giant ponzi schemes, made to work for minimum wage with a heavy yoke of taxes.

I for one will not allow this and will be a “freeman” under the rights of Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights well before that happens. So stay asleep and be spoonfed by the BBC, Sky and our so-called “leaders” and most of all, don’t complain as you have had plenty of warning.

I think I might have been the first to mention stagflation in the comments on this this blog. Can I at least have a badge or something?

“@David
I’m experiencing inflation in energy and food costs, and to a lesser extent other general product costs. But my wage is growing less than typical, and far less than inflation. Is that not stagflation?”

No, specifically because your wages are not keeping pace with price increases.

It’s rather nitpicky to be arguing over these sorts of definitions given the current economic crisis, but what we are facing is high unemployment and a crunch on purchasing power, a process Nouriel Roubini has I think accurately called stagdeflation.

Much as I love what Craig writes about, afraid it is very disappointing to see a piece which decries the current economic crisis without a single mention of the austerity programs in train around the world. QE by the Bank of England – a perfectly reasonable policy in the circumstances, though unlikely to have any lasting impact – is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. It is the austerity programs that are wreaking economic havoc.

Now I didn’t like the guy, but he did have friends in low places like the British and Americans, however one major fact is being twisted.

He didnt die, he was murdered…..

Guess the Nato bombing also targeted those buildings which held the dirty laundry of deleaing with the Americans and the British to name but a few….

Guess Libya can feel the liberation like Egypt, or is that a military disctatorship?

What we need is Cameron to go on a jaunt with his defence buddies to sell arms to the NTC….

The military complex just keeps giving….

Couldn’t agree more on Gaddafi’s lynching.
As for bankers, we mustn’t forget they work to make profits for businessmen (for which they receive fat bonuses). Many of these businessmen are in the war business, earning a lot of money out of Western “interventions”, in collusion with Western governments. Thus the link you describe might go even deeper.

Well said and I agree. The whole NATO military mission in Libya was a fraud from the beginning. We invaded Libya supposedly because Gaddafi was “going to massacre” his own citizens. And then in the end, the man was brutally executed in a disgusting exhibition of brutality, without trial. Not much different that the execution of Saddam Hussein and the execution of an unarmed Bin Laden probably with a bullet to back of the head, covered up by dumping his body in the ocean.

@angrysoba and uzbek in uk
think you are referring to maxim `the throne sits upon filth and quite often filth sits upon the throne` so as usual Nietzsche is misquoted

Very well put Craig, the merrygoround over our skies, attack loops being flown, I have also heard some high altitude activites before 10pm, could not identify it, but there were at least two.
Nobody in Syria has asked for outside forces to come in and the media manipulations that show and follow the underground movement in Syria, as dire as it is, does not mean we can just come in and sort it for them.
Unless there is a concerted demand by all opposition groups for help, Assad will be pushed into a corner and open up many options of ‘making him act’, so one can retaliate. We can expect both conflicts to erupt, simultaneously almost within 72 hours, any NATO intervention in Syria will be thje go ahead for its backer. Thats the time Turkey will have to make up its mind, support a western/NATO/Israeli backed attack of Syria and Iran, or site with Iran, which would mean that NATO would be bust open.

The flight into war should be accomplished by the sound of a blood sucking uebersized moskito siphoning up the future of our children, wrecking economies and markets, infrastructures and lifes. A huge humoungous waste of energy, money and pollution to destroy, what has to be rebuild with even more energy waste money and pollution, nobody wins much. Result, lots of bad blood all-round for the next fifty years and a prospect of more of the same to follow for our children.
Thats what these nutters are proposing, but not in my name! Ahmadinedjad is so unpopular, he will not win another election, so why wage war? its a ludicrously stupid decision

What have our children done to deserve such a huge pile of shite?

Paul Craig Roberts on ICH
.
[...]As statistician John Williams {shadowstats.com} has shown, the official inflation measures are rigged in order to hold down cost of living adjustments to Social Security recipients, thus saving money for Washington’s wars. When measured correctly, the current rate of inflation in the US is 11.5%.
.
What interest rate can savers get without taking massive risks on Greek bonds? US banks pay less than one-half of one percent on FDIC insured savings deposits. Short-term US government bond funds pay essentially zero. [...]
.
.
What is the real UK rate of inflation? It feels like a lot more than 5.2%

Link for above quote
.
The End of History
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29468.htm

I’m confused. How is an annual inflation rate of 5.2% “stagflation”?

Cameron and Obama applaud the likes of Gadaffi’s, Osama’s and Sadam’s deaths because they like the idea of karma as retributive justice, especially if they get to deal it – it never occurs to them karma applies to everyone, even rank hypocrites like themselves.

P.S.

I’m also glad to see Blair’s had the good taste for once to STFU! – long may it continue.

It has got very barbaric, or rather we have become open about our barbarism. I wonder what will happen in Libya next, I read somewhere that 10% of Libyans were informants for the Gadaffi regime, which suggest we are about to see a very unpleasant bloodletting.

Yesterday was a dark, dark day for us all, particularly for those whose eyes are open and who can still weep.

If millions of people opted out of the banker’s system by converting their emergency savings to silver they would force fundamental economic change.

Just want to say thank you. Indeed, we are not alone. Occupy World!

I see that the chair of Ofcom, Collette Bowe who receives £200,000 for her three day week there, is on the Board of the UK Statistics Authority who oversee the ONS who produce the monthly CPI and RPI figures.
.
http://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/about-the-authority/meet-the-board/index.html
.
{http://www.onlineforex.net/macro/inflation/what-is-inflation-cpi/}
What is inflation and how is it calculated?
Inflation is the rise in prices in a country such as United Kingdom. What we most often call inflation are the Consumer Price Index (CPI) or Harmonised Index of Consumer Prices (HICP), a basket of goods trying to measure the price movements of goods and services in private consumption. Every year, the basket of good are reviewed. Some new items may be added and some are removed – just to reflect the consumer spending patterns.
.
The British CPI index follow price movements of a basket to be equal to what an average Brit consume. The weight of each product in the basket, ie: the components included in Consumer Price Index, is set out below:

. btw I see that that US inflation rate of 11.5% quoted by Craig Roberts does not include food or energy in the list of goods/services.

@Eddy-G
“No, specifically because your wages are not keeping pace with price increases.”

Isn’t the definition of stagflation high growth in inflation with a shrinking economy? We have high inflation, and because noones wages are increasing inline, the economy is not growing at the same time.

The economy is stagnant, while the money supply is inflating.

I want this

http://www.imadr.org/un/Declaration.pdf

just checking in from the bay area california to say thanks and we are not alone.

What can we do about it? Buy silver, as crazy as may seem, is one way to go. Go watch maxkeiser.com and learn about Crash JP Morgan, buy silver. It’s about the money and the sooner this system crashes, the better.

An interesting page Mohammed Ashik – thank-you for your presence.

Thanks Annie – ‘We say fight back’ – hugs to the Oakland camp – we are with you.

“Mubarak, Murdoch, now Gaddafi… one by one, Tony Blair’s friends are meeting grisly ends. If I were Cliff Richard I’d be shitting myself.”

As someone remarked recently.

I fear that it will not be long before real Gladiators will be on our screens with judges voting for death or mercy – it might even get more viewers than the dreaded X Factor which appears to be the only thing in which the average bod is interested. God help us all.

CBS/AP)

MISRATA, Libya – Muammar Qaddafi’s blood-streaked body has been stashed in a commercial freezer at a shopping center as Libyans try to keep it away from crowds as they figure out where and when to bury the hated leader.

An AP correspondent saw the body Friday at the shopping center in the coastal city of Misrata, home of the fighters who killed the ousted leader a day earlier in his hometown of Sirte.

The body, stripped to the waist and wearing beige trousers, is laid on a bloodied mattress on the floor of a room-sized freezer where restaurants and stores in the center keep perishables. A bullet hole is visible on the left side of his head and in the center of his chest. Dried blood streaks his arms and head.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-20123711/qaddafi-body-stashed-in-shopping-center-freezer/

agree with the circus, but where is the bread?

I suppose Lybia is facing civil war for a long time and as in iraq this was the purpose from the beginning, the so called “endgame”.
Remember:
“divide et impera!”
“War is peace!”

sad really…

Something that those in the US can do is move their bank accounts to Credit Unions or local, independent state banks. It’s a good time to do it because BoA is soon introducing new fees for depositors (including for the use of debit cards).

Re:
*
“the throne sits upon filth and quite often filth sits upon the throne” so as usual Nietzsche is misquoted.
*
Often misquotes are better than the original. I rather like UinUK’s “human order is in hands of giants that stand on the heads and shoulders of midgets and that those giants can at any time sacrifice midgets”
*
Even the meaning, though different, is better!

In the study of Stockholm syndrome… “often, the abused become the abuser”. We seem to have identified with our captors.

Comes as no surprise, I just knew he would be in there somewhere
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/saif-slick-pr-man-who-went-on-holiday-with-mandelson-1.1130517

Thank you for your enlighten article. I am an American, a Christian and a mother, but first I am a HUMAN. Why have so many lost sight of our humanity? That two young men/boy’s were killed for the accused sins of their father is a crime against all humanity. That we are in the midsts of global insurrection is optimistic. As a human, that we have allowed these crimes to go on for so long is unconsciencable. I too am one of the guilty as I drive a gas fueled vehicle and live in a (formerly) multimillion dollar mcmansion. I pray it not too late for all to wake up and demand change. We cannot allow the wealthy and powerful to drive us to cruelty and war. I am grateful and ashamed that it took my own personal financial bankrupcty and possibility of loosing my home to wake me up to what is happening globally to my fellow humans. I am tortured by what I have shamefully done in my greed and willingness to create a ‘better life’ for my self at the suffering of the rest of the world . It’s so horrible that I have been indoctrinated to believe that somehow as an American I am ‘special’ and deserving of the largest helping for the least cost.

Soon enough there is no enemy left to kill,watch out for that moment because the war machine has no choice but to come back to homeland and continue the massacre.

Currently, the US “giants” are intent on sacrificing the “midgets” without limit for the sake of global power.
*
As Paul Craig Roberts concludes in the article referred to by Mary:
*
In the few opening years of the 21st century, Washington has destroyed the US Constitution, the separation of powers, international law, the accountability of government, and has sacrificed every moral principle to achieving hegemony over the world. This ambitious agenda is being attempted while simultaneously Washington removed all regulation over Wall Street, the home of massive greed, permitting Wall Street’s short-term horizon to wreck the US economy, thus destroying the economic basis for Washington’s assault on the world.
*
From this descent into depravity, warns John Kozy, there is no going back:
*
History describes many nations that have become depraved. None that has has ever reformed itself.
*
So to misquote George Bush to, I hope, good effect:
*
We can fight them now while there is a remote chance of success or we can fight them later on when we will surely be totally destroyed.

Craig, just joining in from the US — no longer a nation of laws, nothing to take pride in here, move along — thanks for your analysis, and for your courage.

A deeply disturbing day and I have been appalled at some of the MSM coverage and comment.

Con Coughlin over at the Telegraph is particularly obnoxious, but even he is warning of portents of doom and gloom for the new Libya.

I find the writings of John Pilger at Global Research http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27181

and Abdel Bari Atwan in the Guardian here http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/20/libya-bloody-victory-gaddafi-beginning

to be much better informed and more persuasive.

Now I can add Craig’s blog to the list!

Thanks Craig, keep up the good work.

Angrysoba,
.
This is not actually direct quotation from Nietzsche but rather summary of his thoughts about realm of society and relation of power and morality. This idea is particularly underlined in Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Will to Power.

“Isn’t the definition of stagflation high growth in inflation with a shrinking economy? We have high inflation, and because noones wages are increasing inline, the economy is not growing at the same time.”

The fact there is effectively wage deflation confirms that we aren’t experiencing stagflation – at least not by the 70′s definition, when the term was coined.

It’s not inconceivable that an economy can grow whilst real wages flatline, but the point today is that we have increasing unemployment, and higher-than-desired headline inflation that is not percolating through the economy (e.g. by not showing up in wage increases).

It all points to stagdeflation, and should not be confused with the stagflation of the 70s which was a very difference beast.

While taxes go up ad wages go down. America finds new ways of laundering money in to Israel:

55 Israeli companies working in Iraq under assumed names

In a dispatch posted at 6:55pm Baghdad time Saturday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that 55 “Israeli” companies were now working in Iraq under assumed names.

Yaqen reported that the Zionist firms operate in a variety of fields, including infrastructure and marketing. The Zionist Mossad secret police agency had established the Kurdish Lending Bank with its headquarters in as-Sulaymaniyah in the US-founded Kurdish separatist enclave in northern Iraq.

The report indicated that the Kurdish Lending Bank had a secret mission of purchasing vast tracts of agricultural land, oil fields, and residential areas in the vicinity of the cities of al-Mawsil and Kirkuk, both oil-rich cities in northern Iraq. The massive land purchases facilitate the effort by the US-backed Kurdish separatist Peshmergah militia to expel Arab and Turkoman residents of northern Iraq so that the oil-rich area can be annexed to the Kurdish separatist state under US and Zionist hegemony.

Meanwhile the Zionist state exports more than $300 million in goods to Iraq annually. In addition Zionist companies obtain contracts for construction projects in Iraq, thanks to help from USAID, the American agency that oversees the allocation of building contracts in Iraq.

The report indicated that one of the chief beneficiaries of the Zionist presence in Iraq has been former “Israeli” Chief of Staff Amnon Lipkin-Shahak who also formerly served as “Israeli” Minister of Communications.

source : http://www.uruknet.info/?p=45479

Well spoken, Craig and greetings from Germany. I thought we had been well educated by you but now, unfortunately our mainstream media and politicians also have become like this.

I am one of the many thousands that visits and reads and reads on this site. Keep up the good work Craig, you are not alone in all of this!

Since some are referring to Nietzsche, was it not Nietzsche who said “god is dead” or something similar. I am not trying to make a religious comment, but rather perhaps to explain a reason for the lack of morality in government that we see today and that I know only too well from my own hard experience. The lack of morality in politicians that without any constraint (that religion used to provide) puts toadying to the powerful ahead of their duty to maintain rule of law and justice. The same lack of morality that rewards the powerful (bankers, elites) for their mistakes while killing innocent children because of their relatives.

When the water level falls, all sorts of twisted shapes are revealed below the normal waterline. The exposure of Dr Fox, who was doing exactly what all politicians have been doing for a century or more, is part of this exposure. As such this financial crisis, created by the Zio-bankers, would eventually expose even them.
But before that time, if they have any sense, they will fill up the coffers again. Last time, a century ago, the pressure created by the Zio-bankers at the Great Depression was taken out in the form of World War and Nazism. Do the Zio-bankers care if the violence they are wreaking in Muslim countries spreads to the West? No, because they think they can move their Zion project forward like last time. And they think we’ve all forgotten. This time round, we will catch them.

Arsalan
Assalamu ‘alaykum. I have been saying the same about Israeli acquisition of Iraqi land and power on this blog for over five years. Kurdistan is scheduled to expand into Turkey sometime.
Property values there are being boosted sky high by government new-building subsidies now that Israelis have acquired the land.
The way I see it is that in ancient times politicians gained power through knowledge of solar time. Now the ruling elites make a plan to bring down prices by war and boost them again by spending.
Thus Politics is no more than fiddling the market and knowing the masterplan. While the people who are interested in this game, from the smallest to the largest political mind, who lie , cheat, spy and spin, are thinking they are winning, they are steadily coming closer to their doom.
And those who live simply and honestly and believe in God and the Last Day are slowly building their future in heaven.

Anno you just touched on a point that even extreme liberals in the UK are too cowardly to touch, due to fear of being labelled.

How much of this Banker money that was lost, was lost in Israel?

Or wars in which no one benefits but Israel.
It is cheaper to buy oil than it is to steal it. So How much of the deficit black whole resulted from over spend in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. In wars in which no one benefited but Israel?

An Obama quote as a cartoon

.

http://dissidentvoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/kimobama-880×1024.jpg

Well I can think of 13 innocent people who I will mourn and worry about how their deaths brutalise mankind before moving onto Gadaffi. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15404515

Although I daresay Assad will now become the new poster boy for those fellow travellers who have lost another valiant defender against the encroachment of Western capital.

I’m surprised that no one has commented on how Craig’s views on QE and how it causes inflation really just accept hook line and sinker the old monetarist doctrine put forward by Milton Friedman – is the Friedman doctine now to be accepted as it is anti-imperialist??

Yahoo as censor
.
‘My friend and neighbor in Petrolia, Joe Paff, wrote a response to a dreadful story about Qaddafi’s killing on Yahoo’s site, commenting “This kind of gloating is bound to come back and bite your butt. Imagine how many people in the world would like to see Netanyahu or Obama dragged from their hiding holes and tortured. It will take about six months for everyone to regret the ‘new’ Libyan ‘democrats.’”
.
Yahoo’s initial electronic response was to write to Joe, “Oops! Try again”. So he checked “post” a second time. Yahoo then rewrote his comment, complete with misspellings, stripped of any mention of Netanyahu or Obama, and “posted” it, as “This is the kind of gloating that comes back and bites you on the butt. Just imagine how many peopel in the world would like to see Americans dragged through the streets and tortured to death.”
.
As Joe wrote me, “Just another small episode in artificial intelligence and the present taboos.” ‘
.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/21/imperial-massacres/
Alexander Cockburn

Arsalan
In short, the govts. know that it doesn’t matter about £250 billion QE because the good cash has gone to buy land in war zones. Thus sterling is not getting watered down, just swapping good cash for rubbish. The perfect scam.

Thank you Craig, a pool of sanity in so much madness. I could hear the collective sigh of relief from the parasites that ‘rule’ us when the news broke of Gaddafi’s death, and with Bliar and his gang off the hook again it’s business as usual. I can no longer watch the propaganda, sorry news, without my anger rising causing me to walk away and do something else.

‘Dictators’ shaking in their boots? NOT. Clegg as state herald.
.
21 October 2011
.
Gaddafi death a signal to dictators, says Nick Clegg
Col Gaddafi died on Thursday in his hometown, Sirte
.
The death of Muammar Gaddafi sends a “huge signal” to others in the region that the sins of “grotesque dictators” eventually catch up with them, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has said.
.
He said events in Libya would allow the whole region to move towards “greater democracy and greater freedom”.
.
In the coming hours, Nato is due to declare an end to the Libya campaign.
.
Up to 1,000 members of the UK’s armed forces, mainly pilots, are currently deployed on the campaign.
.
Mr Clegg said he had been a leading advocate of the Libyan campaign because the UK could not stand “idly by while Gaddafi massacred innocent citizens in Benghazi as he was threatening to do”.
.
“It would have sent a terrible signal that Britain and the rest of the world included did not care what happened in countries like Libya,” he said.
.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15405138
.
BBC 1′s 6pm News is being transmitted live from Tripoli at the moment with greasy Huw Edwards presenting and Bowen and Gatehouse reporting. What a waste of fossil fuel and resources.

Thank you Mr Murray for once again being the rare voice of reason in the perilous time in history when the brutality of the ruling class, which were cleverly masked during the peace time, are exposed to our eyes. What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun. [Ec 1:9] But we shan’t despair. Let us try our best to be cheerful pessimists who are kind to neighbours whoever that might be.

Thank you Craig.
.
“There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.”

Banksie, by doing ‘something else’…your not alone, many feel just as you do, personally speaking, I attack a lump of limestone and make somethin’ of it, just can’t help myself….

ever swung a pencil or brush?

Have been reading your blog regularly since almost day one.

I rarely comment as I cannot usually find words that express my thoughts any better than your words, or those of most of the regular contributors here.

Your posting today is a masterpiece.
The one newspaper website that I saw yesterday was utterly sickening. The gloating and obscene glee and pride that it displayed in the few words written amongst the many images, if seen by the newspaper’s usual readership, must surely make a quantum leap in destroying our society.

Wars, any wars, always transfer money and power from the ordinary people to the rich and powerful. That includes eventually the rich and powerful on the ‘defeated’ side. It’s such a simple analysis to do, just follow the money and open your eyes and truly see.
So I suppose, as the internet increases the danger of people actually starting to understand, their minds and eyes must be filled with more and more obscenities of public killings and media glee, to keep the truth hidden.

So I leave my comment here so we can know we are not alone.

@Ingo and Banksie – yes, exactly. For the first time in my life I’ve joined and art class.

Rod,
*
Re: God is dead
*
You make a good point. Once Christianity is dumped by “enlightened” liberals like Craig Murrary and countless others “everything is permitted,” as Ivan Karamazov observed.
*
Craig Murray claims to be an upholder of Gladstone’s liberal values. But Gladstone was a Christian.
*
Since Gladstone’s time, Christianity has been dumped by the elite and the West no longer aspires or even pretends to be better than the rest: “The throne stands upon shit and shit stands upon the throne, to use a variant of Angrysoba’s excellent misquotation of Nietzsche.

Mark_Golding,
nice work! I have visited coia.org.uk website, things that BBCs or Skys never talk about.
Stupid muslims! When will they get together to stand up against tyranny and despots from outside and defend themselves properly?!

Great article, I agree with all you say. The reporting of yesterday’s events in Libya in the mainstream media was truely awful. As uncivilised as the events themselves.

Gaddafi killed around 50,000 of his own people, that in a country of 6 million. The infamous massacre of political prisoners in the 90s in Tripoli is very well documented now. He was a crazy, cruel, blood thirsty, thieving dictator which after 40 years of dictatorial rule did not leave anything for people of Libya except poverty and now a ruined economy after he tried to wage a war against his own people after they rose at last against him. I can’t believe people here pity him????? The only person that did not know that he is going to be executed once he is arrested was himself I believe. Of course they were going to execute him. What, keep him alive? So that his sons and loyalists use billions of dollars he had stashed in foreign banks to hire more African mercenaries and continue the civil war???? As long as he was going to stay alive, his sons and family were going to use those dollars to hire mercenaries and cause trouble in hopes of regaining power.

A more rational argument as to why Gaddafi should have been kept alive rather than lynched and be found here http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/10/muammar_qaddafi_should_not_have_been_killed_but_sent_to_stand_tr.html

What I find interesting is how many here seem to have more sympathy and pity for Gadaffi than the 13 who were gunned down by Assad’s thugs after prayers today – and where was their pity and faux outrage for those who were being shelled by Gadaffi before Nato intervened???

Thank you Craig, that’s all very well put. I knew when I heard about Gaddafi that there was something deeply uncomfortable about execution at the hand of victor’s justice as seems to be happening all too often these days. For all the Gaddafi’s there are the Salvador Allendes, and why is it ok for Gaddafi to be executed in a world where Kissinger is given the Nobel Peace prize for a far greater level of genocide. I do not think a discomfort in the lack of due process constitutes somehow being in favour of, or pitying Gaddafi as such, it means that we lament a breakdown in legal and moral boundaries and as you say that simply cannot be a good foundation for an emerging society.

I am no war monger. I have participated in my share of anti-war activism, but this isn’t so clear cut.

Maybe I am still missing some facts, but (1) it’s not clear to me that he was killed out of sport without consideration for due process and (2) he WAS offered safe passage to due process at a time when it should have been obvious to any sane person that his days were numbered. HE chose to make a last stand and fight to the death! HE said he would do so and then he followed through with the threat.

What are the choices in such a case? Submit to his authority to avoid a fight? No. The choices are to (1) kill from far away or (2) risk life for the advancing forces attempting to capture him with non-lethal force.

Did he not retain his ability to project lethal force while giving no hint of surrender? Are you claiming that HAD he offered surrender, he would have been killed without due process anyway?

Can’t pretend that I’m unhappy about Gadaffi being killed. Much more unhappy about reports in the Guardian that his supporters are likely to be tortured.

Some good news: Iraq are saying the USA can’t have any permanent bases. IMHO, this was the main reason for the invasion of Iraq, the USA wanted a tame country where they could have a few good solid bases from which to control Western Asia.

No dice. Invasion of Iraq? Waste of time. Cry in your soup Wolfowitz.

@ Komodo
“one by one, Tony Blair’s friends are meeting grisly ends. If I were Cliff Richard I’d be shitting myself.” – LOL. It reminds me of an Agatha Christie novel. Only difference is: it’s plain whose doing the bumping off!

Voila
Stupid Muslims
The Iraq war was launched as part of the war on terror with no evidence of any proven links between Saddam and what was going on in Afghanistan. The direct beneficiaries of the Iraq invasion was Israel who have put a barrier of Shi’a between themselves and the Gulf states. They already have a barrier to the south consisting of the Egyptian military, entirely funded by the US, and links with North African freemasonry and the Islamic Brotherhood.
Plus a barrier to the North consisting of Turkey which is run jointly by Freemasons and a powerful military. and Iran.
As for Kurdistan, the Kurdish people had been carved up by the British for refusing to become their puppet and they had suffered terribly under Saddam, as Kurds still suffer under the other regimes we the British put them under, in Syria, Turkey, and Iran.
Unlike Gaddafi’s regime, the political class in Kurdistan in Northern Iraq is weak militarily but strong on Freemasonry. This is the country where the Israelis settled in the captivity. This was previously the Kurdish language, Aramaic, of Jesus, pbuh. These leaders embedded themselves in the USUKIS plan to invade Iraq and benefited from the country’s oil.
They provided Bush and Blair with the excuse they needed to include Iraq in the war on terror. There were several Islamic groups in Kurdistan whose raison d’etre was to oppose Saddam.
People supported them and they helped the people, so long as the people submitted to being under their control. Unfortunately, when villages refused to be controlled by them, they slit their throats as a punishment for betraying them.
This was the excuse Bush needed. Taliban like mad mullahs operating on the borders with Iran. Who considered themselves above all secular laws and almost as if they were Amir ul Mu’mineen, an Islamic caliphate in miniature. The first few weeks of the Iraq war, while US planes shattered Baghdad, UK war fighter jets peppered the villages of Kurdistan with bombs.
What NATO clearly understands about the Muslims, is that there is always going to be a group amongst them who are narcissistic enough to regard themselves as above the law, secular or divine.
NATO’s narcissism and Hubris recognises a natural ally in them.
NATO works with the freemasons of a Muslim country and also with the Islamic groups on the side. They work the emnity between these two parties to achieve their own ends.
The result is popular secularism. So I repeat Voila’s question:
‘Stupid Muslims! When will they get together to stand up against tyranny and despots from outside and defend themselves properly?!’
But I add the question: ‘When will they stand up against the tyranny of the freemasons who work with their enemies and the Islamic groups who exceed the remit of Islam, INSIDE their societies?’

The only way to be safe from The Fire is to control it. It remains dangerous, but we knew that all along.

‘”There is only now, he explained finally, his voice not above a murmur. “There is no other dimension but now. In the past we have done everything badly for the sake of the future. Now we must do everything right for the sake of the present”‘

.
John le Carre, The Russia House

Great Article Craig

Billy Bragg has come out in favour of an independent Scotland. Had an article in the Scotsman

http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/features/billy_bragg_on_scottish_independence_1_1919016

Neil Young’s on the box.

Craig your up there with him.

The Al Qaida (so-called) collaborators with NATO should look to their own collaboration with the enemies of Islam before condemning the collaborators with Gaddafi, who they are murdering, raping and terrorising at this time.

@ Lwtc:

It reminds me of an Agatha Christie novel. Only difference is: it’s plain whose doing the bumping off!
.
More like the Pink Panther, I’d say. With the MSM as Clouseau…

In the early days of Cameron’s involvement in Libya the UK consficated Gadaffi’s assets in the UK.
.
Was this to force him to tough it out in Libya, against NATO.

go to Youtube. Watch the footage for free. It ain’t pretty, and you don’t have to put up with the hand wringing. The mofo’s dead.

I can’t stand purists in Islam who condemn socialism because it is secular, but take the benefits anyway, and who then support Islamic groups who murder people who followed Gaddafi’s socialism.
Either condemn it totally and pay your own way or realise that other people taking benefit from socialism from another regime doesn’t automatically condemn them to execution when they are only doing the same as you. Talk about stupid Muslims.

‘Leave some for tomorrow’ as my mum-in-law used to say to the dog licking its bottom.

Conjuction,
The BO administration say they will keep on persuading iraqis to change their mind. Not yet to rejoice true liberation for iraqis.

Empire or Democracy – The 1% chose Empire.
.
You cannot have both as there is no symbiosis. In this blog commentators write of chaos and brutality, how the human mind has been conditioned by images to accept the brutality of war, as human death becomes entertainment. Many realise a snap-shot reveals the imperial thrusts, the contagion of destruction and death that precedes empire, is expanding, growing, while the imperial propaganda machine obfuscates reality by lies and deception to stifle or smooth over any discontent that could lead to rebellion.
.
Others here see the inevitability of chaos burning into their minds and ask, ‘what are we going to do? Others also fall to the obscurity of manufactured consent.
.
I believe the way forward is not easy because the journey is through a matrix of fear that must be conquered by fast-track education that reaches to very heart of xenophobic nationalism, those peerage pillars that support the temple of imperialism complete with religious fundamentalism, the key-stone, guide and communicator. It is these ideological nostrums that have become internalised and believed by the susceptible and naive.
.
I believe knowledge is key to puncture and shine an awareness light through the ideological fog perpetuated by those purveyors of xenophobic nationalism and religious fundamentalists. With knowledge we can see a strategic core that reveals an agenda calling for the destruction of all barriers to the empire building machine’s predatory interests and the unleashed destruction of any opposition to the one percent machines control of the world’s resources and its exploitation of the world’s populations.
.
The struggle is growing and the containment and purification of a pyroclastic facism and a militarised security state is possible as the awakening embraces the formation of a mass movement in every major country that replaces the ethos of war and proclaims the fundamental principle of government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
.
These are my thoughts and my message, a message I annoyingly try to announce or even instill at every opportunity.

Stephen,
Nobody is symphatetic to Gaddafi here. It just brings obvious questions about why a man ( head of state) who had international court arrest request, was killed while captured alive. Why should people take the arbitration into their hands without due process? And why so called civilized nations in the West rejoice extra judicial killings these days? Why there is so much eagerness towards extra judicial killing over outspoken enemies of the usukis? Is it because they know too much about smth, or is it because they speak the truth? Where is the principle of Not guilty until proven so? Was Nato authorised to bomb head of state’s car, home and children? If Gaddafi was a bad guy, who is then saudi king, or uzbecki president karimov who butchered several hundred civilians in one night, or russia’s putin who is terrorising independence seekers in the south caucasus? Why would Bliar, supposedly a democracy promoter, would end up kissing with one of the life term tyrants in Central Asia advising him on how to rule the country? Where is the principle of honesty? Why we are not being told the truth and what comes next? These are questions many here are trying to ask.

Geneva convention, 1949
Art 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following
provisions:
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.

“have you seen the price of a tin of tomatoes?”
.
25 pence

Dear Craig,

I agree with you completely. We are descending into barbarism and the pace is accelerating. Following the film of Gaddafi being tortured and killed I expected our newsmedia to be full of outrage and alarm. Judging from the reaction of the public that is how many (most?) of them feel. Instead tomorrow’s newspapers provide a revolting combination of gloating and self congratulation. I have never felt more disgusted or ashamed.

By the way I also want to say that in this article just as in the work you did in Uzbekistan you show yourself a civilised man.

the father of one of the victims Lockerbie bombing, Dr Jim Swire, said the former dictator’s death means an “opportunity has been lost” to find out the truth about the attack.

“Judging from the reaction of the public that is how many (most?) of them feel. Instead tomorrow’s newspapers provide a revolting combination of gloating and self congratulation. I have never felt more disgusted or ashamed.”
.
the govt and the media have read it wrong. they really believed that the british public were about to dance in the streets (as some libyans have in london) cheering, whooping and a hollerin’ on behalf of cameron .
.
this disgusting exposure has been by design , entirely political without humanity, humility or good sense.
.
as ive said before cameron is as a pr man crap. as prime minister he just doesnt get it.
.
one has to consider what the real psyops was /is behind the explicit over exposure of this assassination undertaken by Nato.

“And why so called civilized nations in the West rejoice extra judicial killings these days? Why there is so much eagerness towards extra judicial killing over outspoken enemies of the usukis?”
.
its how one builds a fascist state / empire.
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its the whole nature of neo conservatism that has been taught by (israels) zionists to deal ruthlessly with those who present dissent or a perceived threat to their objectives/goals.
.
it is where our armed forces, police and politicians go to learn about the methods to fight the “war against terror”.

I don’t often comment on here, but I do read, almost religiously so, despite being an agnostic. Please keep up with the excellent and informative posts. You’re certainly not alone.

@Wendy: You wrote :
—quote
the govt and the media have read it wrong. they really believed that the british public were about to dance in the streets (as some libyans have in london) cheering, whooping and a hollerin’ on behalf of cameron .
—end
.
True enough, but then we’ve never been as bloodthirsty as our US counterparts. They really did whoop it up in the streets for many a long hour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5lf2lOk2pY&feature=related
You can also see the ‘related video’ section, showing numerous examples of same.
.
There’s a major difference between the USA and civilised countries, in that the US answer to just about any problem is “kill them”. This applies to everyone from the Native Americans to their next door neighbours should they feel the least threatened. They like simple narratives of us = good, the other = bad, just as simplistic as their Hollywood propaganda. Dubbya Bush himself said, “Either you’re for us or you’re against us. Either you’re good, or you’re evil”. It’s ok to kill evil people, they don’t need a trial. The good folks watching the screen will understand.
.
Most of the reason they feel so threatened is because they’ve treated others so badly for such a long time, and they are terrified of retribution. Retribution is something Americans know a lot about, because they are very keen on it themselves – so much so, they like getting it in first most of the time. The hatred and fear shown in their racism comes from this.
.

‘Why should people take the arbitration into their hands without due process? And why so called civilized nations in the West rejoice extra judicial killings these days? ‘

The killing of Mussolini by Italian partisans, and the subsequent public display of his corpse in Milan, seems to be the closest historical parallel to what has just happened to Gaddafi. That too elicited rejoicing, but the backdrop in 1945 was just so different. Few families in the West (and even fewer in the East), had emerged from the carnage of the previous six years unscathed, so the triumphalism expressed by many after Il Duce’s demise was more understandable. In 1945 moreover, the execution of criminals was the norm in ‘so called civilized nations’, and bloody reprisals against collaborators were tolerated across Europe.

Another big difference between 1945 and today (in ‘the West’ if not in Libya), is that a pessimistic outlook prevails. The economic levers applied by governments & central banks (QE pre-eminently) no longer work in the globalised economic environment. Most of the new ‘free’ money created by QE has helped to fuel speculative bubbles in commodities and certain emerging market currencies (the Brazilian Real mainly). It hasn’t generated ‘growth’ in the domestic economies of the US & UK ,as the Fed & the BoE both claimed it would. QE is, as Craig rightly points out, one of the ‘tricks of those who govern us’. The bloody spectacle in Sirte, which may have been set in train by a NATO airstrike against Gaddafi’s escaping convoy, may well be another.

[Jon/mod - off topic, deleted]

“The only good thing I can say about Gathafi was that he never said that 911 was an inside job.”
*
He sure didn’t say bin Laden did it. And he quite specifically ruled out people from Afghanistan.

Anno writes: “I repeat Voila’s question:
‘Stupid Muslims! When will they get together to stand up against tyranny and despots from outside and defend themselves properly?!’”

Answer: Some will follow them; some will fight them and die; and some will escape them.

But your “information,” Anno, includes a lot of disinformation ~ camouflage that diverts the attention of those without knowledge. You’re fighting phantoms and chimeras, mirages and monsters in the closet and under the bed. You need a larger perspective than the one you get on the battlefield. Retire from the field and read the Signs of the times ~ otherwise you’ll remain caught up in the rising flames.

I remember posting somewhere when all this kicked off in Libya that Colonel Gadaffi and his Libyan Loyalists could be mankind’s last hope against the forces of evil.
If indeed he is dead, I hope I am proved wrong and that the good people of this world, who we meet and work with every day, get their eyes opened and find a Leader who will save them from the coming tyrrany.

Didn’t you know, that since you left ICL, the company was taken over by a series of different companies who raided the pension fund and now your pension is almost completely worthless?

They keep sending me letters

Which Basically Say

Did You Know We Have Fucked You Over?

Tony

Editors of newspapers are always swift to say they are giving us what we want. So, these gory pictures of Gaddafi are justified because, we are told, this is what the readership want to see. I’m not convinced. Because really what happens is that clever editors know that shock value can increase readership, and this is nothing to do with what we want, it’s merely a cheap, rather manipulative, piece of click-whoring.

These pictures served their purpose, of course. Personally, I don’t believe the purpose is to spread fear among our enemies\allies\future enemies, it’s more to do with a vaguely shameful corruption of what constitutes journalism. The purpose of the propaganda is to over-ride the ethics of journalism, do this knowingly, and by doing so trumpet neocon values over journalistic ones. And like all corrupting influences, we, the poor saps, are meant to share, become part of, be seduced by, these values.

Or perhaps I am over-analyzing stupid propaganda photo’s. Securitat do provide the sourcing, as Chomsky tells us, and probably some of the journalists too.

Either way, I don’t support any of this liberal intervention schtick, and don’t feel I have to. Dictators are bad people who should be removed, but life is tricky and the big stick is rarely the solution; we’d teach that to your own kids, really, wouldn’t we?

Hajji Dawud
I’m sure there is safety inside the borders of Empire states.
I am in one, and we have freedom of speech although the blog ‘machine’ chews up extreme opinions from time to time. I am hoping that one day I will find some safety inside China, Unfortunately the US accent on the radio is nearly always edited out in my home.
Strangers to a society do not see the same faults that the residents see. I only have to hear Justin Webb on our breakfast program winding up his plummy-voiced, pseudo-US media presentation performance like a jet engine getting ready for take-off to put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day. Because I know what it means: Welcome to another day on the BBC in which we will steadfastly ignore every important issue and keep you in dream land like the old 1950s British Home Service.
You have been taken in by the US’s image of itself as a champion of independence and freedom. When I leave, quite soon, it will be Eastwards not Westwards, even though I am fully aware that the image of civilisation which the East presents of itself is also a propaganda dream.

The editorial machine is a human.

The human editor of this blog didn’t like this comment:
There are many Muslims who have migrated to this country who enjoy our historical freedom of speech and our benefits from the legacy of socialism. But they themselves detest freedom of speech, preferring a hierarchical controlling system of Islam. they are absolutely opposed ideologically to socialism because it isn’t part of Islam.
These same Muslims justify the killing of the followers of Gaddafi on the grounds that they abandoned Islam for socialism. This ignores the fact that they themselves take the benefits from UK socialism, and that Gaddafi persecuted Muslims.
Why do they not kill themselves for doing the same, keeping mum about UK foreign policy and taking the socialist benefits?
As Craig says, sometimes it’s like teaching children.

USA – IRAQ
US to pull troops out of Iraq by year end
US President Barack Obama on Friday announced a full US troop withdrawal from Iraq by the end of the year. He spoke after talks with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and said the two were in agreement on winding down the US military’s role.
+++++
Iraq to buy American F-16 fighter jets, say US officials
US officials said Tuesday that Iraq has signed a deal to buy 18 F-16 warplanes from the US. The deal “proves the basis for their air sovereignty”, according to US Army Lt. Gen. Michael Ferriter. The US plans a troop pullout by the end of this year.
28.9.2011

France24.com

, we

Lockheed Martin doing nicely.
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The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon, the first of the US Air Force multi-role fighter aircraft, is the world’s most prolific fighter with more than 2,000 in service with the USAF and 2,000 operational with 25 other countries.
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Outside the US, Lockheed Martin had a backlog of around 95 F-16 aircraft during the first quarter of 2009.
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Recent orders include Bahrain (ten delivered), Greece (60 block 52 all delivered), Israel (50), Egypt (24 block 40), New Zealand (28), United Arab Emirates (80 block 60, first delivered 2005), Singapore (20), South Korea (20 block 52 all delivered), Oman (12, first delivered August 2005), Chile (ten block 50, first delivery 2006) and Poland (48 block 52, delivered March 2006 – December 2008).
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“The F-16 Fighting Falcon is the world’s most prolific fighter.”
Israel, with the world’s largest F-16 fleet outside the USAF, has ordered 110 F-16I aircraft, of which the first was delivered in December 2003. These aircraft have Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 engines, Elbit avionics, Elisra electronic warfare systems and Rafael weapons and sensors, including Litening II laser target designator pods. Italy has leased 34 aircraft until the first tranche of Eurofighter deliveries are completed. Hungary will acquire 24 ex-USAF fighters.

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http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f16/

Off topic Craig but thought you would be interested in this essay by John Vidal.
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Ghana’s population explosion
As the world population hits 7 billion, John Vidal returns to the country of his birth to find the midwife who delivered him and to see how Ghana is dealing with a leap from 4 million to more than 25 million people
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“You can’t just pin all the problems on African governments, say demographers. Back in the 1970s, family planning was high on their and western political agendas, but in the 1980s countries such as Ghana were treated by the IMF and Britain as laboratories for enforced economic reforms and debt programmes. Contraception and family-planning programmes, just beginning to have an effect, were sidelined. The free market economy pushed on Africa may have worked for the cocoa farm and gold field owners of Ghana, but there was far less money for health and education. The result was a rapidly growing, ill-educated, fast-breeding generation living in a technically richer but more unequal country where people knew how to save children dying at childbirth but were not able to look after their long-term interests.”
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2011/oct/21/ghana-population-explosion

Voila

I disagree with your view that no one here is sympathetic to Gadaffi – especially later on you go onto to say that “If Gadaffi was a bad guy”. Well I’m quite happy to answer that question – he was a very bad guy. I could also answer in the same terms about the Saudi king and Karimov. The thing is that many here are not asking questions in a genuine sense of enquiry – they already know what their answers are (some are right and some are distorted) and are using them as a basis for supporting their own pet theories which no amount of evidence and answers will disrupt.

Ordinary Syrians are being murdered and having their human rights abused by a nasty fascist (this is a fact not a question or hypothesis) – so my genuine question is what should be done about it?

Dictators ‘R’ Us – Tony Bliar Associates
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Tony Blair has assembled a high-powered team to advise the controversial oil and gas-rich central Asian state of Kazakhstan after befriending its president during his time in Downing Street.
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The former Prime Minister has brokered a deal with the country’s government to provide advice on improving its chequered international reputation and forging business links across Europe.
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According to one source, the deal is worth as much as $13million (£8.2million) for the companies involved, though last night Mr Blair flatly denied making any ‘personal profit’, saying the figure quoted was incorrect.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052071/Now-Blair-strikes-deal-advise-oil-rich-despot-Ex-PM-sends-team-Kazakhstan-help-friend-president.html

I think we’re in an important historic and cultural shift, led, for the most part by our leaders. It’s away from the humanist values of the enlightenment, rationality, science, knowledge… and back towards “barbarism” with it’s emphasis on faith in the unknown and superstition.

When reality becomes too much of a challenge, we seem to automatically retreat into the comforting world of fantasy and myth, and our beliefs.

What’s virtually cetain, unless there’s a successful revolution, which will be “messy” but is our only real chance to escape our fate, is that our leaders are going to lead us down the gore-spattered, slippery slope to even more war and senseless killing.

Gadaffi’s demise, his ritual slaughter, is the true face of the West, a symbol of what we’ve done to Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Massive loss of life and massive material destruction on an almost Biblical scale.

I find it interesting that the press can publish pictures of Ghaddafi being executed yet no pictures of the bigger boogie man in Bin laden were every released. Maybe i’m bveing cynical.
No doubt Obama will no move on to the next target, as predicted in the document PNAC, this guy is more dangerous than Bush could ever be simple because he isn’t Bush.

Craig, we need more people like you in our political systems rather than the lying, smarmy arse holes we have now.

Death notice of a tyrant and thug, direct from the White House Press department.
cf this with media treatment of the end of Gaddafi’s life.
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Saudi heir to throne, Crown Prince Sultan bin Abdel Aziz, dies aged 85
First in line to succeed King Abdullah had colon cancer and was being treated abroad when he died
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/22/sultan-bin-abdel-aziz-dies

Indeed Mary, had to smile when I heard the story of the US retreat from Iraq, where are thyey going to go to? Hmm, next door to Iran? shifting contingencies into the next country to be baldowered.

Libya’s past reliance on foreign labour to do the dirty jobs, throws some light on the needs to train and educate its own people.
Once the guns have gone from the equation, not to talk of the power games being played at present, Libya can look forward to a prosperous future, hopefully not just the ruling classes who pulled all the economic strings in the past.

Anno writes: Hajji Dawud
I’m sure there is safety inside the borders of Empire states.

Tell that to John F. Kennedy’s grandchildren. There’s no safety even in the grave, although in some places the terror is less proximate and thus more effective. People fear the terrorist they don’t see much more than the terrorist that they do see. “Inside the borders of Empire states” there is a more comprehensive illusion of safety because people fear stepping outside of their conditioned domestication and making themselves targets as well as objects of fear among their neighbors.

I am in one, and we have freedom of speech …

“The better to see you with,” said the wolf to Little Red Riding Hood. Speak up and identify yourself as a possible threat to the status quo ~ and these “anonymous” blogs are the best tool for domestic counterintelligence ever devised.

I only have to hear Justin Webb on our breakfast program winding up his plummy-voiced, pseudo-US media presentation performance like a jet engine getting ready for take-off to put me in a bad mood for the rest of the day.

That’s because you don’t see his role in The Plan.

Welcome to another day on the BBC in which we will steadfastly ignore every important issue and keep you in dream land like the old 1950s British Home Service.

Offering vain hope to the people of The Fire since the discovery of duplicity as a tool of political power.

You have been taken in by the US’s image of itself as a champion of independence and freedom.

No, I was born into it and was freed from it. “Surely you were on the brink of a pit of fire and He saved you from it.” I often reflect “That was the brink of a pit??? There are more such pits? Was that a future shore of the Lake of Fire?” And then I watch as others are freed from it in steadily increasing numbers, as disoriented as I was, too often looking back with a view to extinguishing it, or seeking further escape ~ like you are ~ to another.

What you appear to miss is that The Fire will continue to burn, even as The Garden has grown while surrounded and hidden by it. What you’re watching is containment of The Fire, not the spread of it but quite the opposite. There is no way to extinguish what God has said will burn forever.

From crawling around blind on your hands and knees, you’ve been raised up to where you can see. Stop kicking those who can hardly crawl and instead look up ~ and see what it looks like from above. “These are for The Garden and I don’t care, and these are for The Fire and I don’t care.”

The Garden and The Fire are before your eyes ~ enter whichever you choose. Everyone does.

http://tinyurl.com/63wo3te
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Guardian today -
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Occupy London Stock Exchange camp refuses to leave despite cathedral plea
St Paul’s says it has closed for safety reasons, but protesters insist they cannot be moved on without court order
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{http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/21/occupy-london-stock-exchange-cathedral-plea}

Anno: We’re told in the Qur’an “Give good news to the faithful.”

Read some.

writerman
Welcome to Conservative government. Maybe Craig was not around during the last one, or saw it from the rosy tinted spectacles of Westminster. The change you detect is in my opinion merely a return to the hardness of the Tories, bolted onto Blair’s good work for Zionism.

Mary,
The troops are needed for the next ‘adventure’ Mary – While security companies in Iraq maintain fear and American and Israeli corporations plunder Iraq’s revenue from energy sources.
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Our leaders Writerman are compelled to align with the American empire building machine while turning their backs on Europe. I have exposed an American dictatorial nationalism and religious fundamentalism, in other words America is the ‘chosen’ elite force which all countries must embrace or die.
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America is on path to control the world’s resources while attempting exploitation of the world’s populations. They rely on Britain and her imperial history to framework the plan going forward before America (NATO) invokes her military might. Sorry, one is blind if this reality is not perceived. America is a police state, her people are subdued by force and financial stress. Her constitution has been destroyed and she is willing to evoke fear-control even in the face of terrorism which she allowed and magnified to further a crusade to bring American ‘democracy’ to the rest of the world. While fulfilling this divine task, American interests may well be rewarded with control of Middle Eastern oil.
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Powerful America – the ‘great Satan’ is the primary source of weapons manufacture in the world and an influential number of its decision makers embrace an ideology that justifies U.S. wars of aggrandizement as divinely sanctioned.

Mark Golding, we can always vote them out
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8785

Hajji Dawud
It is entirely reasonable to put one’s mind to spiritual matters, but it isn’t reasonable to find a GPRS satellite location for this activity. The bible-bashing neo-con politicians of the US are mad. And like Gaddafi, their madness amounts to nothing more than political strategy.
The Islamic duty of living with other Muslims is important because the blunt instruments of state authority are negotiated with by Muslim people with far more tact and diplomacy than I possess. In a Muslim area I can go about my daily business without harrassment from racism from police or ordinary citizens.

America is on path to control the world’s resources while attempting exploitation of the world’s populations. They rely on Britain and her imperial history to framework the plan going forward before America (NATO) invokes her military might. … America is a police state, her people are subdued by force and financial stress. Her constitution has been destroyed and she is willing to evoke fear-control even in the face of terrorism which she allowed and magnified to further a crusade to bring American ‘democracy’ to the rest of the world. While fulfilling this divine task, American interests may well be rewarded with control of Middle Eastern oil.

A nice summation except for one small point ~ “America” is not the architect, but the pawn. (Or rook, knight, bishop and queen if you prefer.) This “divine” plan was devised and contracted three thousand years ago, for a term that has actually expired. We’re watching the consolidation of what the other contracting party bought in their bargain with the devil.

But as with any such bargain, what they imagined they were buying is not what they will actually get. A melting pot of goy beans ready to serve is not something one should put in a pressure cooker. The resulting explosion can have unintended consequences.

Mark Golding, we can always vote them out

That’s their plan.

Mark
2 years ago the Eurozone was looking much healthier than the UK economy. This Eurosceptic government has, with the help of their Zio-banker friends, turned that round into an insolvency crisis for the Eurozone. Smelling blood the Tory M.P.s want to break relations with the Eurozone, based on one year’s manipulation.
As somebody said before. ‘The parts is the dog.’
The speed of the change in the Eurozone, from it looking as though we would ask them for help, to looking like we are going to make a political split from them is evidence of the enourmous power of the Zio=bankers. Cui bono? Divide and Rule, Amen.

So be it, Anno, verily.

To those querying stagflation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

It doesn’t mean stagnation of inflation. It means inflation coupled with low economic growth. Which is exactly what we have, and it is extremely damaging.

Uzbek-in-the-UK:Angrysoba,
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This is not actually direct quotation from Nietzsche but rather summary of his thoughts about realm of society and relation of power and morality. This idea is particularly underlined in Thus Spoke Zarathustra and Will to Power.

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Thanks, Uzbek. I think however that it is important to understand that “Will To Power” was a collection of Nietzsche’s thoughts collated after his death by his rather venal sister who wanted to promote a body of work that Nietzsche is unlikely to have endorsed while alive. Essentially, if Will to Power were hadiths then these hadiths would be of the utmost in unreliability. The concept of “Will to Power” was, anyway, one of the most underdeveloped and probably idiotic ideas of the otherwise very intriguing thinker. I would say that Thus Spoke Zarathustra also suffers too from rather wild interpretations.
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Nietzsche’s an interesting thinker and I like him but I would be very hesitant about saying that he got anything right. Maybe his best contribution was on the genealogy of morals and his idea that I remember reading from Beyond Good and Evil of the indifferent universe. I tend to think he is correct about these things and find the conclusions from these things troubling.
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By the way, I should say that I really enjoy your contributions here and I am glad that you provide somewhat heterodox views to those which are often deployed here as yet more examples of “independent thinking”. It’s amusing to watch lots of independent thinkers flock together but even more so for someone like yourself to question this “herd morality”!

Has anybody got any news about Mikel and Nina Malyshev? Have they been deported?

Libya – Democracy – Election or Selection?
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A sovereign government in Libya selected by appointment. A ‘very funny way of doing any kind of democracy’ – Iraq leader.
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Understand the mechanism:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK12wgs2mvA

Anno wrote: It is entirely reasonable to put one’s mind to spiritual matters, but it isn’t reasonable to find a GPRS satellite location for this activity.
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Seven billion people are moved by one or another “spirit” in everything they do, their actions making manifest the inspirations that either overcome their weakened will or strengthen their will. The “location for this activity” is observable ~ and within the reasonable grasp of the rational human intellect in toto without any need for comprehensive realization of the details. What is unreasonable is imagining that any one set of details is comprehensible of the whole except in its context as an element of the dynamic interplay of manifestations of inspirations. It’s necessary to view what we can see from the perspective of the motive forces ~ the spiritual dynamics moving toward immunity from entropy ~ in order to avoid mistaking the direction of an isolated set of events for the direction of the whole.
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For example, the “Occupy Wall Street” set of events, seen in isolation, is an incipient “revolution” ~ an alteration of the structure of social relationships involved in the subsistence mechanisms of American society. Its conscious aim is the optimization of those mechanisms to more effectively serve their intended functions of production and distribution, by increasing the control by the intended beneficiaries of those mechanisms over the systems and people controlling distribution. In the context of the motive dynamics, this can be more clearly seen as an institution of more affirmative control over the secular/economic activity of the entire population, expected to diminish economic control over the spiritual/familial activities of the populace. In history, however, that has never been the result of such a political enterprise ~ it has only made the powerful more powerful, the rich richer, and the poor poorer, all in the name of “The People” who imagine they have initiated it and brought it to pass.
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It’s necessary to view events in context from the perspective of actual control ~ dominion ~ power ~ over the worldly fortunes of humanity, which requires a grasp of the motivating spirits that move people to action. The strongest of these ~ for humanity ~ is the spirit of dominion (the essence of “khalifa”) which primarily motivates everyone at least personally from the time they learn to walk and talk. (Exclusive self-control is the first independent will manifested by the developing human animal.)
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… The bible-bashing neo-con politicians of the US are mad.
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They are deluded pawns, just as manipulated as their opponents.
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And like Gaddafi, their madness amounts to nothing more than political strategy.
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It’s a revolutionary strategem. Study Lenin.
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The Islamic duty of living with other Muslims is important because the blunt instruments of state authority are negotiated with by Muslim people with far more tact and diplomacy than I possess.
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The only “Islamic duty” is the same duty that all people have ~ to exercise the sovereignty delegated to them by God, over such dominions as He places in their hands, in the manner which God has uniquely ordained for each of the four faiths expressive of His Majesty.
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In a Muslim area I can go about my daily business without harrassment from racism from police or ordinary citizens.
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Muslims, like everyone else, are susceptible to the same “spiritual” influences you find displeasing, and perhaps more susceptible to some “prejudicial” influences than others. Some of us have better defenses than other muslims and resist those influences, some of us have better manners than other muslims and are better able to conceal manifestation of those influences. Although I, a muslim, can go into any “ethnic” area of any faith or none, and be at least superficially welcome, there are some “muslim” areas that I, an indigenous white American muslim, would have preferred to pass by. Americans do not have a monopoly on inhuman savagery, ignorance, or bad manners, and you rarely see the better of us on television.

The paragraph …
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The Islamic duty of living with other Muslims is important because the blunt instruments of state authority are negotiated with by Muslim people with far more tact and diplomacy than I possess.
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… was supposed to be in italics, it’s a quote.

Angrysober said, ‘It’s amusing to watch lots of independent thinkers flock together but even more so for someone like yourself to question this “herd morality”!’
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You have exposed the influence of your understanding of a central theme of Friedrich Nietzsche’s works, that of master/slave morality. At its extreme this ‘master morality’ is the powerhouse behind dictatorial nationalism, that of national pride, strength and nobility. Taking pride in a nation is fine, but the consequences can be manipulated to justify destruction and death of so called ‘evil’ entities, ie the ‘axis of evil’ which Bush describes opposed to Western power.
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Slave morality has its values things like kindness, humility and sympathy and it is the consequences of these values that sustain a common belief and bind ‘independent thinkers’ which is not your ‘herd mentality’ a term better applied to master morality which is the exegesis of the terms ‘good and bad’ as defined by the masters of morality, totally corrupted by the West and worthless.
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Thankfully it is ‘slave morality’ that has aroused revulsion, shock and even contempt of the popular media such as the much read ‘Sun’ comic’s graffiti and debased headline on Gaddafi’s demise.

Good article, thank you.

The damage done by forty years of Gaddafi rule is totally insignificant compared to what NATO has done and will do to Libya in the foreseeable future. Gaddafi was Solomon compared to NATO. Even if he did hang hundreds of prisoners at Abu Salim after the MI6 ‘Tunworth’ putsch. This year’s NATO attack began in February with the smuggling of a mountain of weapons into Benghazi and ended with a barbaric killing on TV after the destruction, yet again, of most of a country. Wake up, Craig. Nothing Gaddafi did justified this. NATO did Lockerbie, Fletcher and the Berlin disco bombing. You need to accept that. Nice ambassadors are merely whores in the window. Behind them is plunder and chaos, and often a bloodbath. We’ve seen it over and over again since 1989. The lads of the NTC should all be given visas for the UK and be let loose with all their weapons on the British government, and especially the FCO. We should simply close down our embassies and get the Israelis to represent us. After all, didn’t Levy replace Robin Cook (before he was poisoned by John Scarlett)?

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/56633/labour-friends-go-israel
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Among the group was Rachel Reeves who has just been given the Treasury job of Shadow Shadow Chief Secretary by Millipede. Just like brand new MP Chloe Smith, Conservative Friend of Israel and now Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Reeves is a new MP.
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Our friendly Jewish Ambassador to Israel met them and assume welcomed them to the Israeli Zionist state. The trees that were planted in memory of another Friend of Israel MP David Cairns were most probably planted in Canada Park, a forest planted over destroyed Palestinian villages.
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Labour Friends go to Israel
By Marcus Dysch, October 19, 2011
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Labour Friends of Israel has led its first delegation to the country for two years, with seven MPs meeting political and business leaders.
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The week-long tour included a trip to Ramallah and visits to Israel’s northern borders with Lebanon and Syria.
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On the delegation were MPs Anne McGuire, Rachel Reeves, Jonathan Reynolds, Dan Jarvis, Michael McCann and Pamela Nash. New LFI chairman John Woodcock MP led the visit.
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Ms Reeves was appointed to the Shadow Cabinet earlier this month; Mr Reynolds and Mr Jarvis were promoted to the front bench.
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During their stay they travelled to communities in southern Israel which have been targeted by Hamas rocket attacks, and toured Yad Vashem.
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They met Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon, PA minister Ghassan Al Khateeb, visited the West Bank security barrier and a new Palestinian city being built near Ramallah.
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British ambassador Matthew Gould hosted a meeting with the delegation, who were also introduced to Israeli schoolchildren, journalists and NGOs.
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The group also planted trees in memory of former LFI chair David Cairns, who died in May.
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Jennifer Gerber, LFI director, said: “The visit reaffirmed how important it is for Labour MPs to visit Israel, to gain an understanding of her political and security concerns, and support the Israeli people in their efforts for peace.”

Writerman,
In Libya if someone hurts/kills your family then you’re under a duty to take revenge. Many of the fighters joined the uprising because family members had been imprisoned, tortured or killed.

‘replace Robin Cook (before he was poisoned by John Scarlett)?’
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Gordon, is this a hunch or have you a source? I have a suspicion because during a 20 min discussion I had with Robin Cook PBUH I felt he was extremely frightened. He off-loaded much information, much I cannot divulge.

What’s happening with the Malyshevs? Have they already been deported?
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Got a reply an hour ago from my MP – who might actually be representing them too, if they can be considered Swansea constituents – as follows:
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—start quote
Dear Mr. xxxxxx

Thank you for your e-mail, which has just come to my attention. I am not familiar with this case and you say that Mikel and Nina were due to be deported yesterday, so, unfortunately, there is nothing I can do to help at this late stage. If their situation has changed and they are still in the UK, please tell them to get in touch with my constituency office in Gorseinon. The telephone number is 01792-892100.

Yours sincerely

Martin Caton MP
———
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Are they still about? This MP actually appears to give a damn – a rare opportunity not to be wasted.

There’s a linguistic disease in British politics which looks ridiculous to spooks. It’s the refusal to see the obvious. The obvious either hits you at once or you miss it. The British people are conditioned to reject the obvious whenever political secrecy is involved. In fact, many or most political secrets are obvious. The major secret services get away with murder because they control the journalists who will report it. Readers are terrified of uncertainty. Uncertainty is above all a product of a language. So the obvious is stated but hedged around with linguistic uncertainty and the public back off. Having said that, I did what I usually do, I called Cook’s killers. It turned out that one was innocent, but the other was guilty. My questions were the same but the reactions were very different. Quite apart from that, Cook had an ongoing bust up with MI6 and Mossad that went back to his visit to Israel in 1998. He was the only politician in Britain worth killing. He knew that. That’s why he was frightened. All the other people are frightened. Britain has an established culture of political murder going back to the poisoning of John Smith and politicians know it. They also know that their career will be finished if they express their concerns. It extends much further than that. The party conferences are brainwashed pabulum. Cameron’s conference had him fretting about some ‘sexist’ word he’d used, while the Bank of England was saying we’re facing the biggest economic crisis in history. Politics in the UK is brain dead and it’s been made that way deliberately.

How many saw Clinton auditioning for one of the witches in Macbeth? “We came, we saw, he died” cackle cackle cackle. She thus completes the trio with Rice and Albright.This was followed later by that bombastic thug McCain threatening Putin’s Russia and China as well as Iran,of course, with more of the same,while regretting the fact that Obomba had n’t “led from the front” but why bother when one has such canine specimens as Scameron, Sarcrazy and Burlesqueclowni licking behind. The West is now revealed in all its psychopathology fulfilling Lloyd George’s dictum of the thirties that “We reserve the right to bomb the niggers” meaning all whose goods we covet.Hammond from Hell at once urging our buisness men to go get stuck in.This before the blood is dry on the streets.But we must hope Torturing Tony’s role in arming Libya and indeed Scameron’s is held up to public scrutiny but fear a large rug will be found,anyone recall the four year Scott enquiry into the arming of Saddam and how many heads rolled over that??Meanwhil Ki** the Bankers.

Perhaps TB (a fatal disease, once known as consumption) will be asked to incorporate Libya into his ‘Middle East Envoy’ role. Can’t you just picture it? That grin, that middlebrow voice? Perhaps he and Cherie will build another big house there to add to their portfolio.

As Suhayl says – “Perhaps TB (a fatal disease, once known as consumption) will be asked to incorporate Libya into his ‘Middle East Envoy’ role.” I thought he already had with his friendly relationship with Gadaffi, not to mention the friendly support that BP and MI6 were reported as giving Gadaffi only a few months ago. They say the tiger cannot change its stripes, but I’m sure that TB and the others can re-adjust their sails (or should it be sales) to the new wind if they let them.

Craig,
Have you ever heard about smn called Shirin Akiner. My friend from Tashkent has told me she is representing herself as an academic from SOAS and promoting Gulnara Karimova’s image. I thought at least SOAS would employ academics with honesty and real care for human rights. By the way, my friend is also insisting uzbek authorities will not be chasing Malyshevs in light of H Clinton’s visit to the country. I hope this is the case even after when she is gone.

I haven’t read all the comments – no disrespect intended. Just very briefly on the Gadaffi death coverage – yesterdays foto of his death head ‘n’ face was so grose and large that it took up almost the whole page – these cretins pose as ultra civilised humans. Andrew Gilligan what a crass editor. What an advertisement for what they really are.

Sadly, here in the US our citizens do not pay attention to the details of any of this. They don’t care that Qaddafi was executed after he was captured. Nor that they care that Bin Laden was probably shot in the back of the head. Very disturbing!

‘In Libya if someone hurts/kills your family then you’re under a duty to take revenge’
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Is that why there is a long queue of men waiting to view a body full of bullets, bloodied and bruised, lying on the floor of a refrigerated room? I saw that face masks were being handed out to them. How revolting and how grotesque.

US-Israeli spy Ilan Grapel, a MOSSAD agent, who was sent to monitor events during the uprising that ousted President Hosni Mubarak in February and subsequently arrested and detained on spying allegations, is being exchanged in a deal with Israel for the release of Egyptian prisoners including a number of children.
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Panetta had promised Netanyahu he would secure his release by agreeing to supply Egypt’s military rulers with financial and military aid, which was of course a lie. Panetta according to my sources was in Egypt to ensure military rule was retained until the popular uprising could be effectively infiltrated.
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YNet
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YNet

Sick bucket time. How the media treat the death of this tyrant.

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‘The Prince of Wales and the Foreign Secretary have paid tribute to Saudi Arabia’s heir to the throne, who has died at the age of 85.
Crown Prince Sultan bin Abd Al Aziz died abroad in the early hours after an illness, according to national TV.
He was the half brother of the Saudi king, the kingdom’s deputy prime minister and the minister of defence and aviation.
Foreign Secretary William Hague said he was sad to hear of the Crown Prince’s death: “He served the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for many years with great dignity and dedication.
“His contribution to the prosperity and development of the Kingdom will long be remembered.
“I would like to offer my sincere condolences to the Kingdom and its people at this sad time.”
The Prince of Wales was said to have sent a personal letter of condolence to the King of Saudi Arabia.’

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j8jpbEcwklXHSceGbHVDRWKvtgiA?docId=N0217701319284515156A

I really don’t think there’s much difference between Gadaffi and Obama, Sarkozy, Cameron, Bush, Blair, Clinton. They are all gangsters and murderers and have contempt for ordinary people, arguably Gadaffi was the best of a rotten bunch, at least compared to the other despots in the region. Is Gadaffi a worse killer than Israel’s leaders?

The idea that the west cares about the fate of ordinary Libyans is fanciful, why on earth would our leaders give a damn about them, Christ they don’t care about how their own people live!

And the bullshit about ‘democracy’ has completely lost its relevance for me. We are live in virtual one-party states, with two fanctions of the same party taking part in an empty ritual called democracy. Sure we can change the faces of our oppressors, but voting won’t change the system.

The reason Gadaffi seemed so brutal and harsh was that he was trying to create a nation, and as our own history shows so clearly, the UK wasn’t forged by consent, but by fire and conflict, welding a nation together with violence and a lot of blood. Compared to the methods used by our own monarchs Gadaffi was a mild nation builder, monarch, or dictator.

Libya wasn’t crushed because we care about its people, we don’t. What we saw was an opportunity, an opportunity to start a revolt, put a regime in power that we could do business with, and most importantly give us access to Libya’s oil reserves, a process of re-colonization. Far from gaining their freedom, whatever ‘freedom’ means, the people of Libya are now under foregin control once more, and we will never let them go again until we’ve sucked the contry dry.

Voila Ref Shirin Akiner – Wikipedia
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Shirin Akiner is a lecturer in Central Asian Studies at London University’s School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS). She produced many scholarly works, particularly on Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, and is a member of editorial and advisory board of Journal of Central Asian and Caucasian Studies published by the U.S.A.K.
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In 2005, human rights groups, non-governmental organizations and former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, accused her of producing a biased and “propagandist” report on the Andijan massacre in Uzbekistan, which largely absolved the government of Islom Karimov of any wrongdoing. Murray called on Colin Bundy, the director of SOAS, to take action against her for allegedly promoting falsehoods, but the latter refused on the ground that Murray’s views were “unsubstantiated”.
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Fuller details here
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=3915
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Well well. Yet another version to muddy the waters even further.
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S.A.S. troops were in Sirte and assisted in the capture of Gadaffi.
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‘British military sources have told The Sunday Telegraph that small teams of SAS soldiers on the ground in Sirte, armed but under strict orders not to get involved, had warned them throughout the siege to be alert to the fleeing of loyalists.
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Assisted by other special forces – in particular the Qataris, with whom the SAS have a long relationship dating back 20 years – the SAS tried to impress on the Libyans the need to cover all escape routes.
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But despite the advice, the breakout seems to have taken the rebels on the Zafran front completely by surprise.
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In the previous two weeks I had repeatedly seen the militiamen fail to hold forward positions at night as they fell back to their encampments. Again and again loyalists had used cover of darkness to surprise the militiamen and manoeuvre into new firing positions.
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Once more their surveillance was lax, and one rebel fighter confessed to me that in the early hours of Thursday they had failed to keep proper watch on the western front and they were surprised by the convoy.
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A Gaddafi loyalist, Jibril Abu Shnaf, who had travelled in the convoy and was later captured, told how they took advantage of this lack of co-ordination.
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“I was cooking for the other guys, when all of a sudden they came in and said: ‘Come on, we’re leaving,’” he explained.
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“I got in a civilian car and joined the end of the convoy. We tried to escape along the coast road. But we came under heavy fire, so we tried another way.”
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The second attempt proved successful and the convoy left the demolished houses of Sirte, firing at rebel positions as it sped into the surrounding farmland.
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A senior defence source has told The Sunday Telegraph that at this point the SAS urged the NTC leaders to move their troops to exits points across the city and close their stranglehold’.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8843684/Gaddafis-final-hours-Nato-and-the-SAS-helped-rebels-drive-hunted-leader-into-endgame-in-a-desert-drain.html

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/10/19/fatema-ahmed/very-generous/
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The Blavatnik School of Government
[..]
As well as reminding us that Blavatnik is the founder and chairman of Access Industries, Oxford’s press release runs through the academic boards he sits on (Cambridge, Harvard, Tel Aviv) and outlines some of his philanthropic activity, particularly in the arts.
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There’s no mention, however, of LyondellBasell. The world’s third largest petrochemicals group was formed in 2007 when Basell Polyolefins, owned by Access Industries, bought the Lyondell Chemical Company for $12.7 billion, borrowing heavily to do so and taking on Lyondell’s existing debts. In 2009, the new company, unable to restructure $26 billion of debt, was granted Chapter 11 bankruptcy for some of its affiliates, which also protected it from European creditors. One of the banks that wrote off a £2.5 billion loan to Access was RBS, majority-owned by the UK taxpayer.
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None of this, of course, has anything to do with what David Cameron has called ‘a very generous act of philanthropy’. So what is the new school for?
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++++The Blavatnik School of Government aims to develop tomorrow’s leaders, in both the private and public sectors… It will address complex global problems in new and practical ways.++++
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The vice-chancellor points out Oxford’s track record in developing yesterday’s leaders – ‘the university has educated 26 British prime ministers and over 30 other world leaders’ – but that must have been using old and impractical methods.
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Will Mr Blavatnik have a say in the choice of undergraduates in his new ‘school’?
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PS Forbes 400 Richest Americans omit the grubbier details of Blavatnik’s acquisition of wealth. {http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Leonard-Blavatnik_UP4W.html}

Our leaders are only marginally, if at all, any better than Gadaffi. They are certainly more bloodthirsty and far more destructive and contemptuous of human life across the world. In fact one can argue that they are worse then Gadaffi, far worse, because our leaders have the means, ability, desire, power to destroy entire cities and countries across the world, something Gadaffi could never do. In the grand picture he was a petty tyrant in a world run by gigantic tyrants who merely pose as democrats all the wile serving the interests of a deep-seated, vicious, global, dictatorship.

Writerman
I absolutely agree with you here,
‘The idea that the west cares about the fate of ordinary Libyans is fanciful, why on earth would our leaders give a damn about them, Christ they don’t care about how their own people live!’

But this, I’m not too sure,
‘Far from gaining their freedom, whatever ‘freedom’ means, the people of Libya are now under foregin control once more, and we will never let them go again until we’ve sucked the contry dry.’

Libyans can now freely express themselves and there have been small demonstrations against certain aspects without the TNC shooting the participants.

Surely the last years of Gaddafi’s rule showed that he’d become a creature of the West or shall we say the UK. If things don’t go their way the Libyans won’t tolerate it because family and friends will have died for nothing. Also, they know how to fight much better now. Gaddafi chucked the British and Americans out, why shouldn’t somebody else be capable of this if necessary.

‘In the grand picture he was a petty tyrant in a world run by gigantic tyrants who merely pose as democrats all the wile serving the interests of a deep-seated, vicious, global, dictatorship.’
Exactly

The Libyans did something to try and improve their lives. We’re just sitting back watching the noose tighten round our throats.

Centuries of open justice threatened by secret courts – Government rewrites judicial principles after lobbying by CIA
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/centuries-of-open-justice-threatened-by-secret-courts-2373201.html

Ruth – As you say “We’re just sitting back watching”. Elites everywhere will abuse power in their own interests; after all who wouldn’t given the chance. It’s up to the people to stop them. What we need to fight for is a free press and a free parliament, and indeed a free press would ensure a free parliament. Sadly we have anything but a free press.
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The problem is quite simple. Our secret services, MI5 / MI6, serve the establishment elites and not the nation. Once the elites have achieved that, they can exercise control and influence over the press and MPs. If anybody steps out of line he will be smeared, slandered, ostracized, threatened, framed up or more. So its hardly surprising that our parliamentarians are largely lackeys, and our press self-censored through their own cowardice.
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Look at my own story by clicking on my signature – it’s all there. Indeed I have cited several examples of where something similar has happened to others. As somebody knowledgeable of this told me – they don’t even see what’s happened to you as important since it only took them a 30 second phone call to get the process going. What is important is not just that I get justice, but that these abusive elites be brought within the law.

CanSpeccy: “The throne stands upon shit and shit stands upon the throne, to use a variant of Angrysoba’s excellent misquotation of Nietzsche.

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I did not misquote Nietzsche or attempt to quote him at all.

Mark Golding: Gordon, is this a hunch or have you a source? I have a suspicion because during a 20 min discussion I had with Robin Cook PBUH I felt he was extremely frightened. He off-loaded much information, much I cannot divulge.

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For what reason can you not divulge this information?

Hajj Dawud: “America” is not the architect, but the pawn. (Or rook, knight, bishop and queen if you prefer.) This “divine” plan was devised and contracted three thousand years ago, for a term that has actually expired. We’re watching the consolidation of what the other contracting party bought in their bargain with the devil.

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Yet another retread of the tedious Satanic-Jew conspiracy theory dressed up in mealy-mouthed mystical language.

“Don’t feel alone in your perception of the tricks of those who govern us, and leave a comment so we can start to feel each other’s support.”

Craig…Thank your for the invitation. I’m a long-time lurker, never commenting, but always absorbing the things I know little or nothing about (you’re on my blog-roll so I’m able to keep current). I don’t always agree with you, but I do respect your opinions, simply because you, at least, can explain and support your positions. “Feeling each other’s support,” I think, is an absolute necessity in these times of aggresive, allegedly civilized “leaders” (and I use that word very loosely) – “tilting at windmills.”

“This murder is becoming the norm.”

Appreciate your insight…(back to lurking)

I thought Hajj Dawud’s Lore was Islamic, poetic.. “the fire or the garden” … An S-J angle never occured to me, i dont believe it, but there might be a few spooky links around elsewhere! Must be halloween, or the apocalypse.

but loads of great reads from diverse and thoughtful commentors, fine folks!

@Deb – The animated conversation on quantitative easing was good, I liked “is this an episode of the twilight zone?” That’s a catchy punchline these days.

Mary
If the MOD said they were unaware of the location of Gaddafi, they definitely knew precisely where he was. They knew which car to fire on although they may not have known his eventual exit route.
Of course Libya was overflowing with SAS, because same rule applies, whatever they say believe the opposite. They said they would not put troops on the ground. Craig has previously confirmed the normality of lying about these things.
What I think most people suspect, but have no proof of, is that the commanders of the NTC, Taliban, Al-Shabab, and all other so-called Al-Qaida operations are living it up in London, collaborating with UK and US intelligence, and being used to direct operations where there has to be someone who the minions believe.
The strategy of the UK has always been to divide and rule. They work with former members of Gaddafi’s regime as well as with so-called Islamists. The resulting divisions, sectarian, tribal, ideological etc, they don’t give a damn about the causes which divide mankind, are what enables them to carve up the assets while the different parties are arguing among themselves.
When I say that whole villages in Afghanistan, Kurdistan, Libya have had their throats cut by mad mullah Islamists, most of the people giving the orders are living in London, working for London, and bringing up their children and multiple wives in London, while the ordinary Muslims sweat it out on the battleground.

As to Gaddafi’s death, the guys in London have made it a condition of their collaboration that it doesn’t end in a trial where the dictator or anyone else can spill the beans against themselves.
That’s why the UN has set up an enquiry into it, to tell the lie
that Gaddafi was not intentionally killed after being caught.
I sometimes wonder whether you lot met any Muslims. They are as devious, unscrupulous , greedy, and ruthless as the Zionists who they collaborate with. Except the ordinary ones who are just in it for the gold. Their mullahs are freemasons, their leaders are psychopaths and their motive for being in the UK is to run it for themselves.
There are some sincere Muslims here, but most of them leave their faith back at the airport when they get on the plane.
Islam is the truth, but not easy to find.

angrysoba wrote: Yet another retread of the tedious Satanic-Jew conspiracy theory dressed up in mealy-mouthed mystical language.
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Deuteronomy 28:15 says “But it shall come to pass if” … something happens. Read through to verse 68 ~ to the end of Chapter 28 ~ and tell us whether these things have come to pass. If so, then the “something” happened. Is it more worthwhile to examine it, lest we follow it, or to deny it and risk making the same mistakes?
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But you miss an important point. I support Israel’s dominion over what they bargained for, paid the price, and bought. As a muslim, I am required to defend their right to it, and I do. I also support Christian dominion over what God gave Abraham for Isaac as an everlasting distinction to match the everlasting distinction God had already given Abraham for Ishmael. All of the families of the earth are heirs of Abraham, not just one, and here in America most of the people “abide in the tents of Shem” ~ Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ~ and raise no claims to exclusive dominion.
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You can read what I’ve written in the Christian Sojourners’ forums at blog.sojo.net as “Ankaboot,” encouraging them to elect the devoted to Congress and the State legislatures, which is the domain they inherit from Abraham ~ not for dominion, but for effective administration of America’s promises of “liberty and justice for all” that have been long since abandoned. My comments at Sojo fill roughly 800 pages in print, it shouldn’t take you more than a couple of weeks. It should give you a new perspective on “Proclaim Liberty throughout the land.”
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All cooperative endeavor is “conspiracy.” Some work in beneficial directions, some others work against themselves without realizing that until it’s too late. “Politics” is nothing more than the reconciliation of conspiracies. The so-called “Tea Party” is essentially a conspiracy to retain independent possession of a bird in the hand, which they have a natural right to do; the so-called “Occupy Wall Street” protest is essentially a conspiracy to gain possession of at least one of the two in the bush, which they have a natural right to do. Democracy is conspiracy; Judaism, Christianity and Islam are conspiracies; oligarchic plutocracy is conspiracy; preservation of a cultural or ethnic heritage or the commonwealth of either is conspiracy; any aggregate society is a mass of conspiracies. Not all conspiracies are “out to get you” ~ you actually benefit from most conspiracies that you never imagined yourself joining.
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So you can take your “anti-Semite” jacket and wear it, it doesn’t fit me. The Bible records history, whether already past or yet to come, and some people swear by it and others swear at it. You mention of a “tedious Satanic-Jew conspiracy theory” is swearing at it: it’s in the record, and indelible. See Isaiah 28:14-18, speaking of a people who have long since passed away …
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Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because you have said “We have made a covenant with death, and with Hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come to us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves.”
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… as the following verses foretell. They fulfilled their covenant with death, and God fulfilled His. It’s history ~ they reaped what they had sown.
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And today have inherited their dominion, which muslims are charged to honor, protect, and defend.
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That’s why Jews fleeing the Reconquista and the Inquisition in Spain went to the muslim lands, where the greatest of their luminaries, Moses Maimonides, known as “Rambam,” wrote the definitive commentaries of the Talmud while serving as a noble in the courts of muslim Egypt.
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Perhaps you should think twice before publishing a blood libel against a stranger.

Hajj Dawud, perhaps you can put my mind at ease with some explanation of these terms:
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A nice summation except for one small point ~ “America” is not the architect, but the pawn. (Or rook, knight, bishop and queen if you prefer.) This “divine” plan was devised and contracted three thousand years ago, for a term that has actually expired. We’re watching the consolidation of what the other contracting party bought in their bargain with the devil.
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But as with any such bargain, what they imagined they were buying is not what they will actually get. A melting pot of goy beans ready to serve is not something one should put in a pressure cooker. The resulting explosion can have unintended consequences.

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Who or what is “the other contracting party” that made a pact with the devil?
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What is “a melting pot of goy beans”?

@ Crab…When I first saw it, I thought, “How much simpler can this be made? They’re just, as Craig said – “printing new money as needed!” Twilight Zone indeed…

angrysoba writes: Hajj Dawud, perhaps you can put my mind at ease with some explanation of these terms:
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I can’t put your mind at ease, only God can do that ~ although it’s not uncommon for people to find peace of mind in a realization that the concerns they suffer are actually of no real personal concern to them.
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The antisemitism that concerns you is found first in Deuteronomy 28:15-68, as part and parcel with the Covenant ~ the bargain ~ that the Children of Israel made with God, which some of them broke. That’s the origin of all despite of “The Jews” ~ the irretrievably broken promise, broken by those Isaiah called “you scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.” Not you, nor I, nor anyone else can do anything about this antisemitism except avoid it ourselves ~ only Jewish people can deflect it away from themselves, and most do.
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Were you to know the promise that was broken, and how it was broken, and the effect on all of humanity of breaking that promise, and why it’s too late to turn back to it, you would realize that your only concern about antisemitism is to avoid it yourself, entirely, and leave it absolutely to those who condemn themselves by being antisemitic.
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and as for “explanation,” my latest comment here before this one is explanatory. Those who are turning up the heat on the American people know exactly what I’m talking about, and you certainly have the intelligence to figure it out from what I’ve already written.
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Thank you for your reply.

Very important useful knowledge about psychology in relation to Gaddafi not speaking to Craig.
You see, apart from those are rightfully mixed-up because they were cross-taboo-ed i.e.sexually abused, there are two types of people, according to an eminent Jewish psychologist called Freud.
Firstly those whose mothers praised them and rewarded them for sitting on the potty and producing wonderful specimins. This group open their hearts with love to all mankind. The second group were scolded by their mothers while they worked hard to make something to please them. This group, pained by this rejection, closed their hearts to humanity, and just as they had retained their specimins, retain the secrets of their hearts.
Knowledge is power. Our society is run by knowledge.
For Uzbek, irony is when your mum ignores you while ironing the clothes.

Personally, I find the online public gloating over the corpse of Gaddafi sickening. One understands the anger and so on. But I think it demeans us all. This whole imagery of men in suburban sitting-rooms chanting, “Allah O Akbar” as they kill people/ laugh and gesticulate for the camera over a fly-swarmed corpse. It’s sickening. Okay, you’ve killed the dictator. Now get on with running your country.
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When this uprising began, and when Gaddafi was threatening to level Benghazi, I predicted (on Facebook, I think) that one day Gaddafi would ‘die like a dog in the gutter’. Well, he did.
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The possible moral of the story? Be careful what you wish for.

Hajj Dawud, while you are correct in saying that many Jewish people fled the Reconquista (and persecution by Christians) in Spain and settled in North Africa/the Ottoman Empire and were actively welcomed by the Ottomans – the Ottoman Sultan commented that the King of Spain was losing his most talented people – Ibn Maymun (Moses Maimonedes actually moved around Al Andalus and Morocco and then ended up in Cairo as a result of him trying to avoid the Almohads, who had conquered southern Spain and were persecuting Jews.
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But why on earth are we taking about Jews, the Bible, etc. on this thread about Gaddafi?

Wait for the next false flag. US ‘troops’ are already in Uganda as we know.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-22/u-s-warns-of-imminent-threat-of-terrorist-attack-in-kenya.html

Suhayl Saadi: Personally, I find the online public gloating over the corpse of Gaddafi sickening. One understands the anger and so on. But I think it demeans us all.
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I completely agree. It’s absolutely disgusting.
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Peter Hitchens has also chimed in with essentially the same sentiments:
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Colonel Gaddafi was cruelly murdered by a mob. This disgusting episode, which no decent person can approve of, is typical of the sordid revolution which our Government has decided to endorse and aid.
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Nearly as bad, most of our media reported the barbaric spectacle in gleeful tones. God preserve them from ever being at the mercy of a lynch mob themselves is all I can say.

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But, he also said something else a bit interesting, as it echoed another conversation which we had here:
I am pleased to say that a planned march against immigration in Boston, Lincolnshire, has been called off. The organisers rightly feared that it would be taken over by sinister and creepy factions.
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It occurs to me – though of course it isn’t true – that if MI5 wanted to discredit any honest movement against mass immigration, the cleverest thing it could do would be to set up something called, say, the ‘British Patriotic Party’, and staff it with Jew-haters, racialists and Holocaust deniers.
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And then these people could latch on to every decent protest and wreck it.

Thanks for that message at the end of that article. In my circle of very well educated friends, very few if any ever seem to give a damn or even have knowledge of what’s happening. Admittedly, I have the luxury of time to read and observe and piece together the real story, I just hope that I can point people in the right direction and every once in a while they’ll ask me to explain what’s happening.

Unfortunately since this is an comments section on the internet, some vicious anti-semitism anti-muslim anti-whatever bigotry might get dumped on this webpage.

G
Here is some for you to put into your pipe and smoke it.
The UK and others are known to have sent Muslims to redition by Gaddafi in Libya. So he was a witness to that, and maybe he thought that would offer him some security.
But NATO made a pact with so-called Al Qaida Afghanistan trained so-called Muslims, to arm them to do their dirty work on the ground for them, despite the presence of SAS forces in the area.
It has already been pointed out that in Arab tribes there is a culture of revenge. So by bombing Gaddafi’s car to prevent his escape from the NTC National Terrorist Council, NATO knew that he would be summarily executed on capture.
Who did this, Muslims who regard themselves as at the top of Islamic knowledge and guidance. if they are so rightly guided, why did they get conned into silencing gaddafi about the crimes which this country has committed against them by proxy?
Do they have some other collaborations to hide? Undoubtedly they do. We are just scratching at the surface of the collusion between the controlling tentacles of Western power and the controlling tentacles of Islamic power.
There are now two parties in the world, the party of conscience including all people of integrity from all religions, and the party of controlling power, including all political malignant controllers from Islam, Zionism, Toryism, Socialism etc.
I am with the former, however much the manipulating liars detest our clean hearts. sometimes the pressure of lies, spying, violence and corruption makes you do things which are against your own principles. We are all human. But the conspiracy of controlling powers only relish their breaking of the rules.
It inspires them to commit more inhumanity when their confederation of violence and suppression of truth succeeds.

G
Ok, here is some for you to put it in your pipe and smoke it.
It is well known that this country has used Gaddafi for rendition for a number of years and he is a witness to these dealings.
That may have given him a false sense of security. NATO got round this problem by inviting the so-called AlQaida Libyan resistance groups trained in Afghanistan to do their dirty work for them, even though they had many SAS troops illegally on the ground.
They knew that within Arab tribal culture, if they hit Gaddafi’s motorcade within range of Sirte, the militia would exact tribal revenge. Who did this? The self-appointed leaders of the Islamic world with the most to benefit from the proxy persecution of Muslims’ exposure.
Maybe they had other collusions with NATO they wanted to hide.
The whole farce of the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars complete with
false-flag terrorism and fake democracy. There are now two parties in the world. The first consisting of the controlling, manipulating, lying spying political people,from the Muslims, NATO, Zio, Bio, whitewash party. The second consisting of the clean-hearted people of conscience from all religions or persuasions. This latest war has made the choice crystal clear.

I went to a Muslim area of Manila yesterday on business, and the dealer I like best and have known for several years had a go at me about the NATO intervention in Libya.

“You have such economic problems”, Hainee told me, presumably viewing me as a representative of “The West”, “and yet somehow you find the money for war and war and more war, billions of Euros, and then killing all those people just to get at one man who was dead already. What for?”

I respect Hainee. She is much younger than myself, and suffers from diabetes and a host of ther connected problems, but is one of the most cheerful dealers I have dealt with – frank, honest and informative. We have done some good business together.

She wears cover-all Muslim dress and covers her head, but not a face veil. (I don’t deal with the face-veilers out of principle – years of bargaining in the Middle East and the Far East have taught me how to read a lot from the expressions of vendors, and I have no desire to put myself at a disadvantage.)

She is also a higly intelligent young woman, as previous conversations with her had demonstrated.

Her main point, after the economic one, was the shameful spectacle of Gadhafi broadcast around the world at his most vulnerable and dead.

“Why was it necessary to show all the details?” she asked, and it is a good question that others have been asking too.

Just a snapshot of how this latest escapade is viewed by others.

Angrysober,

I have signed the OSA.
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Quite right Mary – I mentioned a continuous SAS fighting presence in Libya and I believe Gaddafi was executed by special forces to keep his mouth shut.
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With protests increasing in America (and world-wide) I believe the next false-flag fear generator will be a dirty bomb; the scenario has in fact been enacted with a simulated theft of radioactive elements and detonation of a bomb I believe containing caesium, yttrium-90 and samarium, isotopes used in radiation therapy.

@Mary,
Bless you Mary, I always keep an eye out for your posts.
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The push for Kenya to get involved even more in Somalia (kidnapped tourists by Somali “pirates”, etc.). As well as the dispatch of US “advisers” to Uganda to battle the whole of 400~600 force of Lord Resistance Army, after all the years LRA has been left to do as it wishes.
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These are steps needed for ingress into Congo; the bridgehead set up in Kampala with supply routes established through Kenya, are just the backdrop needed for start of the “operations” in Congo. Recollecting the paucity of rare earth metals, and the Chinese access to the abundant mines of Congo, certainly does not chime well with the US speculators, whom have been left out of the loop, and without much of sponged off residual proceeds. This as well as the abundance of Oil, and other minerals and elements in Congo, effectively make this area very attractive.
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This move further highlights the shift of emphasis from Mid East to Africa to begin with, and perhaps beyond later. The inordinate US preoccupation with mid east have resulted in Chinese, Russians making hey while the US has been busy killing and destroying to appease the AIPAC representatives (congressmen/senators) in the other occupied territories (Capitol Hill).
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Therefore the news in Bloomberg, or the rich bastards gossip rag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_is_a_Racket

This was written in 1935 by a retired US Marine General:

“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

Hi Craig,
I entirely agree with everything you have posted and could not express my thoughts any better.I was absolutely sickened by the barbaric assassination and torture while still alive which contravenes any act of humanity on a human being.Cameron,Sarkozy and Obama have blood dripping from their hands as they are complicit in the murder of a sovereign head of state.An even more degrading act was the sodomizing of Colonel Gadaffi in the thoes of death.
I have never felt so ashamed of our involvement in this lying hubris,and the evidence of our torture for monetary gain is plain to see from the state controlled media circus, and recognised by everyone on this site.
The contagion of the fire of war alight fanning the middle is definitely connected to the great depression or austerity QE2 banker bailout.Democracy Dave stated publicly that the money for the Libyan War would come from a separate war chest What|Reports are now filtering of a US drone strike again followed by strikes by a Mig jet on a fleeing convoy with SAS boots on the ground to direct the mutilators to stricken Gadaffi injured badly injured in the air strikes and finished off by the totally useless NTCrebels, or more likely the SAS had to do the dirty deed themselves.I n true Mossad fashion will these same murderers possibly disapear themselves soon as it would be better if nobody was left to squeal about this little incident.

Glenn, the Malyshevs were, according to one of Craig’s earlier blogs, supposed to have been helped by “haven’t I done enough” Hywell Francis MP. I left a message on Hywell Francis’ phone for him to please let me have the name of the Malyshev’s legal representative on Thursday last. I needed this informastion before Amnesty could get involved. I am now in Romania but before I left on Saturday morning I had heard nothing from him. Like many others I should like to know if the pressure we tried to exert helped keep them in the country.

Let’s cheer out PM .. he is ” proud of the role that Britain has played” in liberation of Libya, what a pity he forgot to mention the support was given to him by the west.. Does he really think people of Libya are that stupid?? a good article in FPJ worth reading.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/22/gaddafi-imperialism-and-western-hypocrisy/

and by him I mean Gadaffi!

“There’s a major difference between the USA and civilised countries, in that the US answer to just about any problem is “kill them”. This applies to everyone from the Native Americans to their next door neighbours should they feel the least threatened. They like simple narratives of us = good, the other = bad, just as simplistic as their Hollywood propaganda. Dubbya Bush himself said, “Either you’re for us or you’re against us. Either you’re good, or you’re evil”. It’s ok to kill evil people, they don’t need a trial. The good folks watching the screen will understand.”
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its called Manifest Destiny .

I have to agree with passerby – the Americans had taken their eye off the ball in Africa and are now scrambling to try to make up for lost time – and resources!

Just hope the people of Kenya and Uganda don’t have to pay too high a price – I lost some good friends – and Kenya some good citizens – in the Nairobi bombing before 7/11. I fear that for every American killed, the African countries will lose 10, and they’ll be ignored as acceptable collateral damage.

Perhaps Craig or one of the Mods would let me know why — on the “ethnic cleansing” thread — two comments of mine were left ‘awaiting moderation’ for about 24 hours. They were not abusive and had no links in them. Thank you.
.
Two items:
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“U.S. Senator McCain: After Libya, strike on Syria may now be considered”
On a visit to Jordan, Republican Senator stops short of referring to a strike by the U.S. or NATO, but says ‘there will be renewed focus on what practical military operations might be considered’ against Assad regime.
{http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-senator-mccain-after-libya-strike-on-syria-may-now-be-considered-1.391573}
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and
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Did John Bolton just admit all these wars are for oil?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFbpKKOEnAE&feature=feedf

It’s being suggested online that the USA now has a base for AFRICOM – heretofore situated in Stuttgart – and that it will be set up in Libya without objection.
http://www.africom.mil/AboutAFRICOM.asp

i still maintain that part of the reason the media/govt have been explicit in gaddafis death images is for the debasing of the african, arab, muslim , perceived as less than equal human being.
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it is of course supremacist nature of the neo conservative ideology that denies anything but fascism. and one has to recognise that in the uk we do have a zionist govt in power (past and present).
.
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as for the alleged murder of dissenting politicians .. that would not be a surprise and the extension to media types would be expected .. well that surely has to be part of the reason why real reporting has disappeared and some semblance of it has to be found on the margins .. such as RT or PressTV et al.
.
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Karzai has said that if the US went to war against Pakistan Afghanistan would fight on the side of Pakistan. Smells awfully stinky .. Pakistan should be prepared.

Thanks for that news on Nick and Nina, Glenn and John Goss. I hope that our last minute scramblin’ done some good and that your journey to Romania turned out as expected.
America is subsumed by its own hate agenda, it has its axis of evil rudder firmly stuck up its backside and for that reason is easy controlled by the likes of Netanyahu Inc. China and Russia are making hay while the sun shines. China is delivering all round packages of more socially responsible developments, not just take out resources, a slightly more communitarian model.

Although from its own distgusting treatment of all things Tibetan and Uighur shows that China is still far removed from becoming a multicultural society that is equal. Han Chinese are lording it over others, so their export models of development can only be viewd with tinted glasses.

Ref the link to John Bolton on You Tube – “The critical oil and natural gas producing region that we fought so many wars to try and protect our economy from the adverse impact of losing that supply or having it available only at very high prices.”
.
Who remembers Bliar saying “the oil conspiracy theory is honestly one of the most absurd when you analyse it.” ?

I listened to a BBC ‘journalist’ interview the rebel commander responsible for capturing Gadaffi. Not a mumur of dissent or a single question was uttered by the BBC man about the veracity of the obvious concoction from the rebel leader. Not a whisper about the obvious conflit with the video footage widely available. It is sad the way the BBc has become little more than a propaganda machine since the Gilligan affair.

Thank you from across the pond for writing this. I am a north American revulsed by these killings and my culture’s attitude towards them; even one of my “leftie lists” posted – without comment – a story about the Libyan populace rejoicing at Quaddafi’s death. Indeed, I believe many of them did. But a bloodthirsty or even just repressed public’s reaction, wherever it may occur, doesn’t excuse the act: cruelty, revenge, illegal assassination. Nor does it excuse the sidecar crimes: this emerging pattern of ‘killing the sons’ may have some logic in the amoral game of regime change, but it is no less a mafia-like tactic, no less a gross violation of international law, of fundamental human rights. In addition to eliminating possible political successors, you are eliminating witnesses (i.e., family members), and sending a crystal-clear message to anyone else who may have information contradicting the official narrative: speak up, and you (and yours) die.

Hillary Clinton *laughed,* describing his death. This is sick.

Thank you, last of all, for pointing out that even the Nazis got due process. This is (in the USA at least) the absolute case (always dredged up when we in the demonizing phase of turning on corrupt former allies, whether Manuel Noriega in Panama, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, etc.): we call them ‘Nazis,’ meaning ‘worst-of-the-worst.’ However, the lesson of how the actual Nazis were dealt with (i.e., through a legal process) is never told; the recitation is purely to create a monster we can blame and hate. Thus the next phase can happen with public consent, or at least assent: the hanging, the bullet, “burial at sea…” (don’t forget the crazy and suspicious Bin Laden assassination). “Rule of law” used to be a right-wing cause in the US. Now it’s what Chris Hedges says we’re fighting for. Wow.

“The barefaced lie about Gadaffi being killed in the crossfire bodes ill for the openness, transparency and good government we can expect to see now in Libya”

My ill started boding when the MSM began reporting ‘facts’ from Libya in February that had no supporting evidence other than unspecified ‘reports’.

We now find that the civilian massacres never even happened and the threats supposedly made by Gaddaffi were gross mis-translations.

@Quelcrime: Did you by any chance hear that quote of Smedly Butler on the Mike Malloy show last week? Curiously enough, he read out that entire section.
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@John Goss & Ingo: It’s clear the exasperated Hywell Francis hasn’t “done enough already”, by virtue of the fact that – last we heard – the Malyshevs were due to be sent to the care of a murderous dictator. I was quite surprised at the interest and concern of Martin Canton, I passed the message by text along to CM, perhaps he can still be of assistance should they still be in this country.

BRITISH SHADOW GOVERNMENT EXISTS
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Confirmed
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By The
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Deputy Editor
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Of The GUARDIAN And Head Of News
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IAN KATZ
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PressTV & George Galloway
.
British Shadow government Hague, Fox, Osborne et al. had main role together with MI6 to invoke a ‘soft’ coup to overthrow Iran’s government.
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Conservative government is fraudulent, ‘totally corrupt’ and deceptive.
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Plotting to install a puppet government in Libya from known Western agents and anti-Gaddafi spies.

The pure evil, shocked everyone, even Deek Jackson, the guy who stood on the election platform with Gordon Brown.

He was incredibly subdued this week.

This evil is hard to take, especially when it is coming from our side.

I guess its like cancer – consuming and killing you from within

http://deekjackson.com/

Tony

The dirty games the British play in Libya for their dirty money.
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A Heritage of Guns and Oil; Libya becomes the new Iraq
October 23, 2011 Written by nassermashadi
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Some familiar names from twilight world of the British mercenary are coming to light in Libya , even as Qaddafi’s regime is finally vanquished. According to Karl Stagno-Navarra [Malta Today, THURSDAY,SEPTEMBER 29, 2011 ] , Heritage Oil run by veteran mercenary Tony Buckingham, are in Libya. As well as oil, Heritage are a “security business”. Mika Minio-Paluello writing on the excellent blog PLATFORM , shows Heritage’s Libyan excursion as part of a wider Global strategy. Minio-Paluello says Heritage pulled off hydro-carbon deals in Central Africa which “transferred billions of dollars of state revenue to private companies”. Heritage specialise in hydro-carbon exploitation in high risk scenarios, and aim for a high rate of return.
/….
http://nassermashadi.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/a-heritage-of-guns-and-oil-libya-becomes-the-new-iraq/

Off Topic but to do with ‘bread’ and jobs:
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Agent Cameron’s wife Samantha receives £57,000 after the sale of Royal Warrant luxury stationers, Smythson, where she was creative director. The deal was brokered by agent Cameron’s crony, Howard Leigh, the Tory recipient of dodgy funds for the shadowy movers and shakers ‘plotting-tank’ cum charity, Atlantic fudge.
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Smythson of Bond Street, suppliers of luxury stationery and leatherbound diaries to the Queen of England and other toffs, has been sold for £18 million to Greenwill SA, the holding company for Tivoli Group, an Italian leather goods manufacturer. Smythson had insisted the sale was motivated not by financial hardship but rather the result of several parties having expressed interest in acquiring the business.
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A consortium led by Goldman Sachs banker Mike Sherwood bought the company in 2005 for £16 million.
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Smythson has stores on New York’s 57th St. and Beverly Hills’ famed Rodeo Drive. Smythson was granted a Royal Warrant to Her Majesty the Queen in 1964. Other warrants followed: HRH The Prince of Wales in 1980, HM The Queen Mother in 1987, and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh in 2002.

%nuid:

Chilling Africom link.

“Our most important military tasks are:

* Deter or defeat al-Qaida and other violent extremist organizations operating in Africa and deny them safe haven.
* Strengthen the defense capabilities of key African states and regional partners. Through enduring and tailored engagement, help them build defense institutions and military forces that are capable, sustainable, subordinate to civilian authority, respectful of the rule of law, and committed to the well-being of their fellow citizens. Increase the capacity of key states to contribute to regional and international military activities aimed at preserving peace and combating transnational threats to security.
* Ensure U.S. access to and through Africa in support of global requirements.
* Be prepared, as part of a whole of government approach, to help protect Africans from mass atrocities. The most effective way in which we do this is through our sustained engagement with African militaries.
* When directed, provide military support to humanitarian assistance efforts.”

Looks like the landlord’s-access clause in a tenancy agreement.

Mary,

Its a massive deception based on anti-science and religious extremism which has been fundamental to control since before Jesus Christ was supposedly “Born”

There is no historical evidence for anyone 2000 years ago, going around and performing miracles and stuff, and 2000 years actually ain’t that long ago. Even I can trace my family back to around 1601.

But the story and the myth and the morality and the reality of Jesus Christ pre-dates him for around 10,000 years in numerous totally different religions across the planet.

You can believe in The Devil, if you like. I personally didn’t believe that such Evil actually existed, because I had had no personal experience of it.

I used to have these arguments, about how nearly everyone I knew and met was really nice.

People used to tell me, that I had got it wrong, but maybe they had met Tony Blair.

There is no shortage of energy or food on this planet.

Sure we cannot increase our numbers exponentially, but I for example really like sex. So far as I know, I only have 2 children.

I didn’t need to procreate with every sperm.

Italy and Germany have a birth rate of around 1.3 per Woman.

2.1 is needed just to maintain current levels.

So the Real Problem, seems to be in The Idiots Who are Trying To Control Us.

Just look at Dick Cheney.

If Your Daughter brought Dick Cheney home how would you react?

Go outside and find a nice Juicy Slug?

Tony

Thank You Mr Cameron Mr Obama Mr Sarkozy :
.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/gaddafis-dream-capital-for-africa-pulverised-into-a-ruin-2374667.html?action=Popup

“I listened to a BBC ‘journalist’ interview the rebel commander responsible for capturing Gadaffi. Not a mumur of dissent or a single question was uttered by the BBC man about the veracity of the obvious concoction from the rebel leader. Not a whisper about the obvious conflit with the video footage widely available. It is sad the way the BBc has become little more than a propaganda machine since the Gilligan affair.”
.
.
the bbc was/is always a propaganda machine. all that has happened is that your eyes have been opened via greater access to the world. for english speakers the limitation has always been there.
.
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“”The barefaced lie about Gadaffi being killed in the crossfire bodes ill for the openness, transparency and good government we can expect to see now in Libya”

My ill started boding when the MSM began reporting ‘facts’ from Libya in February that had no supporting evidence other than unspecified ‘reports’.

We now find that the civilian massacres never even happened and the threats supposedly made by Gaddaffi were gross mis-translations.”
.
.
but this was pretty much reported by non western media outlets from the outset.
.
.
does anyone really think/believe that our media will front page, headline the destruction of sirt when they as one had pretty much a blanket ban on any reporting whilst the carnage was taking place.

Craig,
I have just come across with these videos where you are featuring. Thanks for your efforts to make the world better place. I have now realised why you named your book “Murder in Samarkand”. In light of Hillary Clinton’s visit to Uzbekistan and undergoing negotiations about reopening american base in Uzbekistan again these videos still have much better voice against torture regime support by America and Britain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57kakD2p4Ug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F00-UNp4rE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M9YEnao4MA

Craig,
I have just come across with these videos where you are featuring. Thank you for making the world better place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57kakD2p4Ug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F00-UNp4rE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M9YEnao4MA

Hundreds of millions of prisoners have been tortured by sodomy with bottles, broken or otherwise, at the hands of dictators supported by our UK governments. This revenge on Gaddafi is an important reminder to them of their crimes.
Why not hold a bottle party at the House of Commons? Come on Maggie, Gordon, Tony, Dave. have a bottle on the house and bring your parliamentary friends. Sod ‘em all, I say.

Suhayl Saadi asks: But why on earth are we talking about Jews, the Bible, etc. on this thread about Gaddafi?
~
We’re not. We’re talking about “Circuses Without Bread” …
~
“I am worrying about the effect on our society of human death as entertainment.” “All this killing brings triumphalist politicians smirking on our screens. We seem to have become as dehumanised as ancient Rome.” “History shows that bloody appetite once aroused feeds upon itself.” “More death is on the way, to keep the circus going. Then the crowds may not notice there is no bread – no jobs, and their earnings and income eaten up by huge state enforced transfers to the bankers, whether by bailouts or “quantitive easing”.” “Quick! More War! More Militarism! More Blood! More Executions! More Victory for Democracy! Keep the Peasants Happy! Get a Move On There! Come On!! Come On!! More Blood!! More Blood, Quick, Damn You!!”
~
But here’s the clincher:
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“Why don’t we go the whole way and have them eaten by lions in the ring?”
~
You think this isn’t about religion, and who will “rule the nations with a rod of iron?” That’s all it’s been about since the time of Solomon, when for the first time the entirety of The Promised Land had been removed from the Darwinian struggle of competition for hegemony.
~
Libya, as I recall, is a main source of “sweet crude” ~ oil that has a low sulfur content, which is required for virtually all the refineries in the world to “crack” the sulfur-laden “sour crude” from everywhere else.
~
You see, there are all these muslims sitting on top of “our” oil. And they’re getting uppity. And on top of that, when Europe’s colonial period ended and the colonialist marauders went back to where they came from, a flock of muslims had the audacity to follow them home, polluting the lily-white superior-race countryside with people of other shades of skin who had entirely different ideas about “render unto Caesar” and more precisely about “what is Caesar’s.”
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Islam, you see, demonstrated in recorded history that it’s possible for the rich to get richer without the poor getting poorer. That’s the problem. Poor people offer no competition for resource hegemony ~ the middle classes can.
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People might have time to spend noticing the shell game of “representative democracy” so adeptly fielded by the oligarchic plutocracies. We in America have the best Congress that money can buy, and as long as the “religious” keep out of “politics,” that old-time “business as usual” will continue to increase the value of banking stocks. Especially America’s nineteen million muslims, some of whom are not asleep at the switch.
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The Biblical mandate is “Proclaim Liberty throughout the land.” It’s engraved on the (broken) Liberty Bell. And what is “liberty”? It is the opportunity to acquire the material means of exercising freedom. Like Franklin D. Roosevelt prayed, “Grant us a common faith that man shall know bread and peace, that he shall know justice and righteousness, freedom and security, an equal opportunity and an equal chance to do his best, not only in our own lands, but throughout the world.”
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But that was long ago. Now we have “equal opportunity employers” who search the world for cheaper labor, while in America people have an “equal opportunity” to work for slave wages and get nowhere.
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Until the infrastructure of the American commonwealth had been spread from coast to coast (“nigra,” “spic,” and “redskin” areas excepted) and privatized, the Anglo-American brotherhood had some liberty.
~
But that was long ago ~ just like the Bible.
~
Suhayl Saadi, it’s about religion. God has established four permanent faiths among humanity that, functioning according to their unique and distinguishable characters, turn the world into a Garden for some and a Fire for others, and individuals choose as they wish. All of the wars of history have been between or among or within those four: every war is a religious war of one dimension or another.
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Qaddafi murdered Libyan citizens in America. There is no question whatsoever about that. According to the religion he claimed, he should have been executed in the Seventies, if not before. This whole “Qaddafi” thing is a trivial side show in the circuses without bread. Inna lillahi wa inna ‘alaihi raji’oon” ~ Surely we are God’s, and surely to Him we return. Mu’ammar Qaddafi is with his Lord, and God Alone knows his condition. All we know is that what he sent forth from his own hand has returned to him.
~
There is no “black-robed justice” in the world today that even approaches that. And God will establish liberty.

Hajj Dawud, “Four permanent faiths”. What makes you think they are permanent? What are these four faiths? Are you saying, eg. Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, paganism, etc. are transient? And what religion was there at the time of the dinosaurs?
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“All of the wars of history have been between or among or within those four” Hajj Dawud.
.
What about the wars b/w the Egyptians and the Hittites, or the various Zulu wars which predated the entry of Europeans, the Mycenaean wars, those fought by the Varangians, or the wars waged by the pagan Julius Caesar (against the pagan Gauls and Celts)…? Or do you see all of these as mere prelude to the main attraction (of the circus)?

Anno wrote: There are now two parties in the world, the party of conscience including all people of integrity from all religions, and the party of controlling power, including all political malignant controllers from Islam, Zionism, Toryism, Socialism etc.
~
People are being separated into two camps: A camp of faith wherein there is no hypocrisy, and a camp of hypocrisy wherein there is no faith. Before you attribute purity to yourself (as you have done with your “clean heart” claim), consider which of those two camps demonizes the other (as you have done with your broad-brush condemnation of “the party of controlling power, including” variously-labeled “malignant controllers” of partisan factions of much larger groups). That may assist you in determining which camp currently holds your allegiance.
~
“Power corrupts” is a false statement. “Power attracts the corruptible,” and “power corrupts the corruptible,” are true statements. We are all powerful ~ every man, woman and child capable of volition is possessed of power. It’s in our genetic makeup, we’re the most powerful creature on the planet and everything is subject to the power of the human being, including people ~ perhaps especially including people, since to wield power one must also be subject to it.
~
But “being powerful” is a catastrophic responsibility, and the greater the power with which one is invested, the greater the responsibility one has for mistakenly using it. The consequence of a misuse of power grows over time, and returns to the abuser ~ as Qaddafi’s abuses have returned to him ~ whether in this life or in the next.
~
You wield power by inciting others to precipitate action without consideration of unintended consequences. You might want to consider that “opposition” to something is not a durable organizing principle ~ when the “something” has been removed, what preserves unity so as to prevent the actors from forming factions against each other? Another “something” to be removed? Are you sure you want to unleash that kind of a monster?
~
We should all be wary of the power of an angry mob, moving in opposition to something. No good can come of it, unless you think that killing Qaddafi like he was a stray dog was a “good” thing.

Tony Opmoc. Do not understand. I think you have the wrong person because I have no religion.

.
You might have been referring to an image I posted of Jesus casting out the money lenders which I thought apposite in connection with the list of names who control St. Paul’s which I also posted. Someone on Medialens has cottoned on too.
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http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1319364528.html

@Suhayl Saadi: Hajj Dawud, “Four permanent faiths.” What makes you think they are permanent? What are these four faiths?
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The answer to both questions: they’re named in the Qur’an.
~
What about the wars between the Egyptians and the Hittites, or …
~
“between” means “between” one and another of the four;
~
“among” means “among” three or four;
~
“within” means “within” one of the four.

I agree with every word, apart from the early allusion to the Nazis as the very zenith of evil. They were not; that is also part of the historical lie served up to us all. What happened in Russia under Bolshevism was far worse than any Nazi atrocity.

What is occurring now is by the same hand as that Bolshevism. When more understand that, we will make progress.

As to the summary execution of Gadaffi, as others have said, there was no way he or any of the others would be permitted judicial process.

We are moving into truly savage and dangerous times.

Videos from St Paul’s posted today. Note the police presence.

.
http://occupylsx.org/?p=379

Circuses without Doughnuts? Look at this crap on BBC COM. Promotion of junk food. How much did the manufacturers achieve the placing of this advertisement?
.
Sweet doughnuts conquer the world
By Helen Soteriou
London
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15309466

ST. Pauls are loosing 22.000/day, apparently. This has nothing to do with the unavailable independent health and safety report that is being cited as relevant reasoning to disperse the demonstrators.
I wonder what the H&S report says, or is it fictitious, and empty page? a long lost dead parrot scroll

Have our god fearing banks offered compensation to St. Pauls?, after all it is saving them a lot of embarrassment in front of their glass palaces.

ASnd then there is another opium to the masses.
Norwich 1 Liverpool 1, c’mon you canary’s.

Thanks Mark for the link to details of an advance in SamCam’s personal wealth. Continuing the theme of inquality within the system, here is another reminder of the corruption within HMRC.
.
Compare the state’s treatment of the crowd named in this article to that meted out to those trying to live on reduced benefits.
.
Revenue and Customs office faces MPs’ backlash after secret deals with bankers
Commons committee tells cabinet secretary to act over ‘out of control’ civil servant Dave Hartnett
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/23/tax-avoidance-goldman-dave-hartnett?newsfeed=true

Videos from St Paul’s… Thanks Mary
.
Everyone is so welcome to learn about ‘OccupyBritain’ and some using conversations are here:
.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/OccupyBritain/
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and here:
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http://www.facebook.com/groups/UKCollapse/
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To jump straight into the protest, a live stream video and chat is here. You are very welcome:
.
http://www.livestream.com/OccupyLSX

@suraci: What is occurring now is by the same hand …
~
Yes, but it’s necessary to see that in a much longer context to gain a true perspective. You’re looking at the rider reaching for the brass ring ~ you should take a closer look at the horse and the merry-go-round.
~
We are moving into truly savage and dangerous times.
~
A long-running play ends with a short season.

How the Banks & Government are stealing from you… a children’s guide.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVJ5_4qNSo

Occupy London live stream… variable discussions – good mix
.
http://www.livestream.com/OccupyLSX

Suraci,
.
Bolshevism as totalitarian and utopian system has ‘rightfully’ claimed millions of lives before, during and after the WW2. But you cannot compare it with Nazism at any point. Nazism and particularly its idea of German racial superiority was far more dangerous for the humanity than Bolshevism. Take it this way. Bolsheviks have managed to get hold of nuclear and even hydrogen bomb but they have not used it against other nations although there have been few cases where they could have. Now imagine if Nazis got hold of nuclear bomb sometimes during WW2. What do you think would have happened to humankind?

Uzbek in the UK

I suspect you are wasting your breath with Suraci – when he says “any Nazi atrocity” what he is really saying is that he/she/it believes that any such behaviour was justified in the pursuit of Bolshevism and hence there were no such attrocities. Human beings will recognise that wrong/evil can occur on both sides.

Could Mary, Mark and others please explain why when they repeatedly tell us that we live in a fascist regime worse than that of their hero Gadaffi that the demonstrators outside St Pauls are not being dealt with in the same manner that Gaddafi, Amedinjinabad or Assad would deal with such protestors?? Unfortunately, we don’t have YouTube links to all of the latter, although I’m happy to prepare a fascist dictators for children guide if that would help – but there are plenty of other sources should you care to look.

Gadaffi’s death was inevitable, the only uncertainty being which particular lie would be told to explain it. If he did not die at the hands of the NATO-sponsored insurgents then US or UK special forces would have ‘slotted him’, as their grim terminology goes. Quite apart from anything else, had he lived he would have spilled the beans on Lockerbie: he had nothing to do with it, and no need to lie now.
.
It’s a pretty safe bet that Megrahi won’t see Christmas for pretty much the same reason, even though it’s a bit of a trick to get caught in a crossfire when you’re bedridden.

Stephen,
.
Although quite often I am not sympathetic to Mary’s opinion there is certain true about fascism of present European governments. If you look at the roots of Italian word fascism which means something like brought together or put together. In the last years it is more and more obvious that governments in Europe are in tight collaboration with MNC and investment banks. Look at it this way. When banks and big businesses needed capital they have been given and are being given billions of public money. This on its own have increased national debt. Now when common people need financial help they are being told that government needs to reduce debt and cuts are being made to everything from education to health. When one is sacked from job and is not able to afford paying mortgage he is not given even a penny from the government to cover mortgage. Does this look to be fair to you? Is this not a sight of European governments working in close collaboration with big companies and not those who vote for them?
.
Of course you cannot compare repressiveness of late Gaddafi, Assad, Karimov or any other dictatorship with western democracies but there is a certain true when western governments are being called fascist.

Uzbek in the UK

Just because you can see elements of corporatism in the behaviour of western states I’m afraid that does not make them fascist. To say so is not much beyond the level of argument of saying that those who opposed the Iraq war and/or the EU are supporters of the BNP because that is the position of that party.

The Tory Party in the UK has always behaved as the political wing of the City – but that doesn’t make them fascist, although they may have some individual members who are not a million miles away.

“When one is sacked from job and is not able to afford paying mortgage he is not given even a penny from the government to cover mortgage. Does this look to be fair to you?”

BTW – this isn’t generally true. Although I don’t doubt that there may be some who are not entitled to the benefit – nor that there are some in Govt who want to make things harder and/or don’t really care about those facing difficulties.

Roger, Wilko…

Ancient Rome indeed!
Where is this modern world we were told about as children, this progressive society gifted with technology and recorded history that will send the human race into a brighter future? – or where did it go?

Democracy is supposed to be by the people for the people, why are there never “people” in government? Sigh.

Still, I’m smiling today after reading Sarkozy’s comment to Cameron “you missed a good opurtunity to shut up…”

Good article CM keep it up.

For Stephen’s information, the police are filming the protesters outside St Paul’s just as they film us on marches and protest meetings for justice for Palestine. Hardly the actions of a benign state. Suggest he wakes up or if not, peddles his wares on Times Online or the like. I happened to read the printed version in a cafe this morning. Quite outrageous stuff there especially the leaders.
.
Italy now. GB soon.
http://italycalling.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/occupy-rome-one-week-after/

Mary

I never claimed the UK state was benign – but that doesn’t make it fascist as you frequently claim. I’ll peddle my wares wherever I like – that is one of luxuries of living in a democracy which has been earned for me by my ancestors who actually knew what fascism was when they were fighting it. Another feature of democracies is that the newspapers can print outrageous leaders – not much of that in Libya/Syria/Iran/N Korea/China/Zimbabwe or whichever pet regime you favour at the moment.

Stephen,
.
You are right to state that Tory were always seen as City boys. But recently we have witnessed that whichever government is in power City will benefit and commoners will lose (when it comes to crisis). Was not Labour government in power when the first portion of billions was given to the banks and TNC? Now does it not occur to you that there is no opposition to the idea that ‘banks are too big to fail’? Does it not occur to you that there is certain bounding between publicly elected members of the government and the City and is this not what Italian word Fascism means?

Now does it not occur to you that there is no opposition to the idea that ‘banks are too big to fail’?

No – becuase there is quite a lot of opposition to this idea both inside and outside government – look at what the Vickers Commission are proposing. That is not the same as saying that it would have been right to let the banks fail back in 2008 – because I don’t think it would have been given the even greater misery that it would have caused for many outside the banking sector.

Does it not occur to you that there is certain bounding between publicly elected members of the government and the City and is this not what Italian word Fascism means?

Publicly elected members of Parliament are bonded to all sorts of things – but that is not the same as fascism. You and others are able to argue and vote for different arrangements.

“Could Mary, Mark and others please explain why when they repeatedly tell us that we live in a fascist regime worse than that of their hero Gadaffi…”
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Your words ‘Stephen’ – are they an conjecture or disinformation.
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Read my earlier post on authoritarian nationalism that exists in America and Britain cloaked as a two/three? party system with no hope of others gaining control by enacting and using rules or by fraud, intimidation/assassination and propaganda that obfuscates the totalitarian single-party state that secretly existed and is now fully exposed and running scared.
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A shrewd British public attempted and achieved a coalition expecting deadlock. that is, attempting to ensure any political consensus that disregards public opinion would only result in a ‘move into check’ and failure, even before the vote. It failed.
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This quasi/pseudo-fascism that exists in British rule/governments has promoted violence and war and viewed as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality (puke).
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It views conflict as a fact of life that is responsible for all human progress. Ad interim we have murdered thousands of children in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine, displaced 4 million families and traumatised millions more. We (our rulers and followers) are disgusting, sickening, unyielding, foxy, inhumane and nefarious. They are drones, remote deceptive beguiling murderers grasping at resources and power while using so called ‘flat-mates’ to spin their webs of deceit in an attempt to appease their evil masters.

“Could Mary, Mark and others please explain why when they repeatedly tell us that we live in a fascist regime worse than that of their hero Gadaffi that the demonstrators outside St Pauls are not being dealt with in the same manner that Gaddafi, Amedinjinabad or Assad would deal with such protestors?? ”
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wait until they get beyond the current protection of st pauls .. watch them being removed .. except we’re a little more subtle in our fascism , unless they happen to come prepared like the libya/syria rebels guns in hand.
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what makes you believe that our govts would not act in the same manner against us as those elsewhere?
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now we have Nato/coalition arguing between themselves as to who should get the plaudits for gadaffis killing.
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whilst clinton in pakistan denies any hard evidence that links Pakistan to haqqani and the recent attacks in kabul.
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and the alleged perpetrator of that alleged iranian plot to murder saudi ambassador which no one believes is to plead not guilty to the charges.
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funny old world.

“A shrewd British public attempted and achieved a coalition expecting deadlock. that is, attempting to ensure any political consensus that disregards public opinion would only result in a ‘move into check’ and failure, even before the vote. It failed.”
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not so shrewd because they failed to recognise that each of the party leaders adhered to the neo con doctrine, supporters of zionist aggression. that any challengers to the ideology were disposed of by the media by an hysterical media .. in the same way the lie about the french veto during the pre iraq war campaign (all such events that lead to war or change of personalities at the top follow much the same script)
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anyone who wanted to could see through the media campaigns pre election (in some cases 2 years before) that ensured that no matter what the public voted the outcome would be the same.
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just as anyone who cared to actually listen to obama knew he was walking in the footsteps of tony blair .. ideologically and PR

“All of the wars of history have been between or among or within those four: every war is a religious war of one dimension or another.” Hajj Dawud
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Hajj (or should I call you, ‘Dave’?), that is what you wrote – “all of the wars of history” – but thanks for the clarification.
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On the other point, so, you regard Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the religion of the Sabeans as the four permanent faiths and all the rest as transient? This, in spite of the fact that some of the others – paganism, Hinduism (in one or other form) and some of the ‘Eastern’ religions have been around for longer than any of those four.

“Don’t feel alone in your perception of the tricks of those who govern us”. It seems that the ‘tricks’ are appearing at warp speed. To quote a no-mark scum bag politician “never let a good crysis go to waste”.
As for Gadaffi, I do not really believe that he was half as bad as our nedia painted him. Really just the same senario as Iraq, WMD’s and Saddam.

Yes ‘anyone who wanted’ Mary – and now the ‘wanted’ are many and motivated across the world. This time, Mary, This time…

Sorry I mean’t Wendy.

Stephen,

You have stated that there have been a lot of opposition to the idea of ‘banks too big to fail’, but have all this opposition made any difference. Banks have been given billions of public money and everyone else now from students to pensioners have to pay for this. If British government was indeed putting public interests first would not they put all these billions (which they have borrowed and by this increased public debt) to a better use of a wider society? So basically when banks need money we forget that they are private institutions that have nothing to do with public BUT when public demands fairer financial responsibility and no multibillion bonuses suddenly banks ARE private institutions and public CANNOT interfere in their policy. Does it not occur to you that someone in the government is putting interests of very tiny but influential minority FIRST before interests of a wider public (those who vote and supposedly elects government)?
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There are certainly different meaning of Fascism. One that is classically pictured is either Italian or German. But Fascism in both of these societies was also something to do with ideology but beneath it was just a collaboration between those who govern the country (tax, issue law and provide order) and those who are involved in money making (banks and big businesses). If you recall there were big businessmen that not only allowed but helped Hitler to establish government in Germany.
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What I mean to say is that it is very dangerous when government is in very close collaboration with tiny but influential minority and in times of crises it might turn out that in the interests of this tiny minority whole nation or even nations are sacrificed.

How it works
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5799&pid=50850&st=0&#entry50850

The photographs of what has happened in Sirte are horrifying.

But never mind, what a business opportunity! As long as the ‘victors’ can agree on the shareout, that is.

And with Cameron and Sarkozy at loggerheads, the Americans will probably cash in.

On a slightly different tack, will the Americans continue with their possible interference in Iran – or will they try for Africa? As they’re supposedly leaving Iraq, could they do both?

Syria next. This hideous old war monger suggests it might be.
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McCain Raises Specter of U.S. Military Action in Syria
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Senator John McCain of Arizona has become the most-high profile U.S. lawmaker to date to raise the possibility of U.S. military action in Syria. Speaking at an event in Jordan, McCain said: “Now that military operations in Libya are ending, there will be renewed focus on what practical military operations might be considered to protect civilian lives in Syria. There are even growing calls among the opposition for some foreign military intervention. We hear these pleas for assistance.”
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http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/24/headlines#4

[I believe I already posted that further up the page, Mary. From Haaretz.]
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Are there no Mods on duty? And if there are, why do they refuse to answer my question about being held “awaiting moderation” on the ethnic cleansing thread?

Sorry Nuid but I missed it. This thread is now so long that it takes ages to scan through.
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One new allegation has surfaced about the execution of Gaffafi – that he was sodomized. If true, and I find the video unbearable to watch, a new low was reached. Like Iraq, Libya follows and then what?
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20124758-503543/globalpost-qaddafi-apparently-sodomized-after-capture/

@Suhayl Saadi: All of the wars of history have been between or among or within those four: every war is a religious war of one dimension or another.
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Hajj, that is what you wrote – “all of the wars of history” – but thanks for the clarification.
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What I wrote was this:
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God has established four permanent faiths among humanity that, functioning according to their unique and distinguishable characters, turn the world into a Garden for some and a Fire for others, and individuals choose as they wish. All of the wars of history have been between or among or within those four: every war is a religious war of one dimension or another.
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“God has established” sovereign dominions that the dominion of men cannot remove. All the wars of history have been between, or among, or within those dominions.
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On the other point, so, you regard Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the religion of the Sabeans as the four permanent faiths and all the rest as transient?
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All the rest have either been or become the dominions of men.
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This, in spite of the fact that some of the others – paganism, Hinduism (in one or other form) and some of the ‘Eastern’ religions have been around for longer than any of those four.
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Mystery religions have been formulated to ordain or sanction, and then support, dominions of men since the time of Nimrod, and later to obscure the religions of Abraham to divide them into sects; but the very name “Nimrod” means “We rebel” ~ against the already-established dominion, vested long before Abraham, of the Saba’een.
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“History” today is a story about what people said they saw ~ it is not about what they didn’t see.

Thanks Craig, great article as usual.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/free-pfc-bradley-manning-accused-wikileaks-whistleblower/kX1GJKsD

Please sign

Uzbek in the UK

Just because businesses – banks and others try to influence the government and might be succesful in doing so does not make the Government fascist. It was trying to be argued that there was no opposition to not breaking up the banks – I have pointed out quite clearly that is not the case. Personally, I think more shoudl be done to regulate the banks – and the argument about breaking them up/ring fencing them is something of red herring – but that is not what was being debated.

Fascism comes with a lot more than corporatism – what about the extreme nationalism and racism, the repression of dissent and alternative viewpoints, the suspension of democratic institutions and the curbs against opposition. If you want to look for those can I suggest that there are other places to look before the western democracies (not that I’m against eternal vigilance on our part – but the thing is this can be done).

Perhaps if people really want to oppose the actions of this Government as they do, then they should properly understand its nations. Resorting to silly name calling and Toy Town Trot protests really just plays into their hands and strengthens their hand – which is why from time to time I do believe that some of the perpetrators are really Tories at heart, becuase surely they cannot really be that stupid.

Mark

you start my asking me whether my words about you calling western governments fascist were conjecture or disinformation.

No they were statements of fact as you so obligingly demonstratated later in the same post. Mary frequently descibes the UK and US government as fascist. Perhaps rather than playing your silly games you could do something more positive and set out what alternative you are proposing or aspiring to – so that others can describe whether they prefer that alternative to the western democracies that you clearly detest.

Let me remind you Stephen of your words:
‘…we live in a fascist regime worse than that of their hero Gadaffi…’
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Gaddafi of course is not my hero. And I do not ‘detest’ Western democracy; I ‘detest’ the corruption of ‘democracy’ because government is clearly not of the people, by the people, and for the people. The main political parties are 80% subservient to the 1% banking elite who through incompetence, greed and a strict reliance on the status quo calculate conflict, power and hegemony will replenish their empty coffers and war chests.
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I have already proposed a solution, a new path, a step change; in fact a metamorphasis, the rebirth of a resource based economy which starts with an inventory of our depleted planets assets – not so illusionary as some suggest as deposit multiplication is now unstable and has lead to indefinite economic growth and hence environmental degradation on a massive scale and of course people have to be in debt for new money to be created or we print money and increase price inflation. This corrupt system also relies on perpetual conflict to steal from other countries resources by force which also ensures these depleted countries are in long term debt to the imperial or domineering forces.
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I rest my case on these facts and the constant reminder of agony, anguish, and the pain of dying children, together with the suffering and upheaval of future generations.

Some interpretations of what is meant by the word ‘fascism’.
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“My father was a slave and my people died to build this country, and I’m going to stay right here and have a part of it, just like you. And no fascist-minded people like you will drive me from it. Is that clear?” : Paul Robeson (1898-1976) – from testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee, June 12, 1956
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“The history of mankind is a history of the subjugation and exploitation of a great majority of people by an elite few by what has been appropriately termed the ‘ruling class’. The ruling class has many manifestations. It can take the form of a religious orthodoxy, a monarchy, a dictatorship of the proletariat, outright fascism, or, in the case of the United States, corporate statism. In each instance the ruling class relies on academics, scholars and ‘experts’ to legitimize and provide moral authority for its hegemony over the masses.” : Ed Crane
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Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power: Benito Mussolini
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“The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism – ownership of government by an individual, by a group,” : Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Fascism is capitalism plus murder.” : Upton Sinclair

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“I wouldn’t call it fascism exactly, but a political system nominally controlled by an irresponsible, dumbed down electorate who are manipulated by dishonest, cynical, controlled mass media that dispense the propaganda of a corrupt political establishment can hardly be described as democracy either.” — Edward Zehr – (1936-2001) Columnist

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“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.” — Justice Joseph Story : (1779-1845) US Supreme Court Justice 1833

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“In relation to the political decontamination of our public life, the government will embark upon a systematic campaign to restore the nation’s moral and material health. The whole educational system, theater, film, literature, the press and broadcasting — all these will be used as a means to this end.” — Adolf Hitler : – (1889-1945) German Nazi Dictator Source: Volkischer Beobachter, 23 March 1933

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My own definition of fascism – the subjugation of an individual’s will and freedom by an
overweening state.

Mark and Mary

By whatever definition of fascism you may provide any rational analysis of the facts would show that the likes of Saddam’s Iraq, Gadaffi’s Libya, Assad’s Syria, Ahmenjinabad’s Iran could all quite easily accommodated, and the degree to which those societies could be considered fascist is considerably in excess of the Western democracies on which you repeatedly sick the fascist label. Please explain why you are so selective in the application of the fascist label and in which fascist you are prepared to condemn and stand up to? There were always plenty of those who claimed to be on the left who supported the Soviet Union and while attacking the “imperialist” and “fascist” western democracies turned a blind eye and silent tongue to what their “heroes” were doing. Who says history doesn’t repeat itself! I’m afraid staying silent on the behaviour of tyrants while attacking that of those who oppose and stand up to them does amount to hero worship in my books ( though of course to be fair it might just be possible to qualify for useful idiot status as an alternative)

Mark

If that is your cogent and fact based model for future development then perhaps the kindest thing I can say is that it requires a little development before it has any chance of getting more than the tiniest sliver of democratic support – you may wish to say that deposit driven model of expansion is broke, but if you really think that any modern market based economy is able to run without using savings and investments as a the mechanism for redistributing surpluses and avoiding disconnections in the economy as a whole then you are talking gibberish. There are other models such as barter and centralised state allocation – but the historical precedents are not good. None of means that sustainable development should be ignored, and as a social democrat I’m quite happy for the State to have a role in directing and regulating markets, but that doesn’t mean that you just reject market capitalism in its entirety.

Interesting, well-researched and footnoted story of an alliance between the first black President of the US and anti-black racists.
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Curiouser and curiouser:
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http://www.zcommunications.org/free-libya-the-rise-of-natos-racist-executing-liberators-by-michael-mcgehee

Dear Mr. Murray,

I wasn’t aware that your criticism of ‘Q.E.’ had been lambasted and for the life of me I don’t know why. As a working class “worker and saver” I am one of the victims of this theft-crime and I would invite anyone who wonders why I use the word crime to contemplate what would happen to them if they paid their council tax with dosh freshly printed in their garage.

Furthermore, I am equally horrified by the pornographic display of blood and violence to which we are constantly subjected. But I would take issue with one thing – the use of the word ‘execution’ in connection with Gadafi (a man who was up to his tricks when I was in Grammar School 40 years ago and for whom I formerly held no great sympathy). He wasn’t executed, he was murdered, and we should say so.

Best wishes

Yes, indeed, he was murdered. And tortured beforehand, according to accounts on the net.
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This just in:
Wed, 26 Oct 2011, 12:06 GMT+3 – Libya

The bodies of 267 people, many of them believed to have been summarily executed, have been found in Sirte, the hometown of slain Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi, a Red Cross source told the online Libyan newspaper Qurynaew on Wednesday.

Officials from the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi, now in Sirte, had documented the bodies before they were buried in mass graves, the source told the Libyan paper.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-oct-26-2011-1206

What goes around comes around
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First
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7582484/Four-Afghan-civilians-killed-after-Nato-troops-attack-bus.html
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Second
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/world/asia/deadly-attack-strikes-nato-bus-in-kabul.html
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How long till someone sticks a knife up Sarkozy’s arsehole?