Patriotism Cloaks the Scoundrels

by craig on November 18, 2011 8:12 am in Uncategorized

It is very sickening to see Cameron, Osborne and Johnson dressing up their opposition to a financial transaction tax as a defence of the UK against Europeans. Reducing the attraction of multiple financial speculative transactions is an obvious step in reforming the crazed world of fantasy finance. If it did reduce the concentration of speculative centres in the City of London that would in the long term be good thing – our economy is over-dependent on servicing a system which cannot last anyway.

The Tories see Britain as the world capital of spivs, with unlimited free amounts of cash raining down on their friends and family in the city who devise ever more elaborate financial speculations on every one of which they take a margin. Free lolly forever. Hooray!

But it is probably too late anyway. The establishment seems oblivious to the extent to which the system is unravelling. Almost all European governments face increasing demands for real interest on the money they borrow from banks and financial institutions – increased bond yields – but that only increases debt, which countries largely service by new borrowing in this never-never land. Banks demand higher interest because they fear the risk of not being repaid, and the higher interest makes it more and more certain they won’t be repaid. It is only one of a number of ways the logic of the system has collapsed.

So the Tories posture while the system sinks deeper and deeper, and meantime people around the world have noticed that the elite are screwing them. These really are the most interesting times of my lifetime.

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94 Comments

  1. “We live in interesting times” a chinese curse, and we sure do. Its getting very hard to predict what is coming next. Revolution, Evolution or Apoclaypse..

    Hopefully people are not going to put up with this nonsense much longer and why should they. Financial terrorist banksters have got us here, the best thing we could do is arrest them all.

  2. If I was a racing tipster, unlikely if, you could observe that I predicted the catastrophe of Mrs Thatcher’s banking reform at the outset, but was ignored. I am also ahead of the game by 30 years in predicting that all of our futures lie within Islam.
    There is no other system that discredits the me- first Thatcher doctrine which has spawned a breed of me-first financiers who really don’t care if they pull the whole system down.
    That’s why they continually oppress Islam, scooping up our resources and violating our human rights. Purely because we tell them that their system is wrong. ‘Oh no, no no, market forces will always self-balance’, they say. Forgetting that this theory only worked at a time when an Englishman’s word was his bond.
    Now that there is no punishment for financial wrongdoing, they are going to dismantle the entire world. And God will dismantle them.
    If I break the rules as an engineer, I get prosecuted. Why is it so different for so-called financial engineers? Because Mrs Thatcher started the process of de-regulating financial engineering, while at the same time real engineering is now so over-regulated that nobody can make anything.

  3. Craig’s is as neat a summary as you can get of the root of the economic problems of the whole world and 100% accurate. By “the whole world I mean China, Saudi Arabia etc. as well. “Anno” is right to blame the Thatcher/Lawson deregulations, but at least they acted in ignorance, as Lawson now admits; but Gordon Brown went much further, knew it was idiotic, made a fanfare of how clever it was, and just got the timing wrong. Has anyone considered the possibility that the Bond Market, which should be the most perfect market imaginable, an auction of dated sovereign debt, might actually be run by a Ring?

  4. anno
    i call your islam and raise you a zoroastrianism

  5. The tragedy of the 2008 crash was that the government missed a golden opportunity to reform the entire money system, by taking the issuance of the nations money and placing it in the hands of – where it rightly should be- the treasury. Thus instead of the obscenity of seeing the government borrow its own money from the markets, it could issue the money, debt free, into the economy, by spending it into the economy, via infrastructure projects. The BOE could continue as lender of last resort and if it needs more money then it can borrow the money from us! One other bonus, the people would no longer have to guarantee government borrowings, in other words no more direct tax upon earnings.

  6. James Chater

    18 Nov, 2011 - 9:15 am

    The system is bust and we have all been screwed. But arresting everyone responsible isn’t going to help. Vengeance just makes things worse. The Tsarist government in russia and the ancien regime government in France were corrupt and deserved to go. But the revolutions that overthrew them just made things worse. Can’t we try to get rid of the corruption without becoming intolerant and vengeful?

  7. Anno is right but Islam does not have a monopoly on righteousness. There are righteous Jews, righteous Christians, and bad Moslems just as the Thatcher, Cameron, Blair governments were bad. Bad people get themselves in positions of power. Islam alone is not going to save us. If you love money, you are doomed from day one. That’s why when the Wall Street crash came so many money-loving speculators threw themselves off skyscrapers. When the next crash comes it will be a new opportunity for Moslems, Jews, Christians, Seikhs, Buddhists and other faiths to take a good look at what caused all the evil wars, take a good look at the greed for money, and oil, and criticise it, like the Germans were justly criticised for the persecution of the Jews, like the Italians were justly criticised fort heir excursions into Africa, and Japan for its excurions into China. This time the guilty parties are the UK, US, Israel and their allies. I am in favour of similar measures being imposed on the UK, US and Israel as were imposed on Germany and Japan after the Second World War, that is the prohibition of weapons’ production and defence expenditure. Then watch our economies flourish!

  8. Why do we insisit on calling these pirates “the elite”?

    There must surely be a more appropriate term for them?

  9. Hamish. Looks like you’ve been reading Keynes or John Kenneth Galbraith. But frankly I think 2008 was already too late. By then the world had been exposed to the monetarist policies of Milton Friedman for far too long. The crash is coming. If there had been a real run on the banks it would have come then. Only by carrying this worthless scrip in barrowloads and dumping it can we begin to start again. And this time the bankers must play by the rules. I’m old enough to remember nationalised industries. They provided jobs, kept energy bills affordable, gave us a health service to be proud of in a mixed economy to be proud of. Who can claim to be proud today?

  10. The real “dirty little secret” that is never discussed (by UK politicians) is the real level of indebtedness of the UK, in reality far worse than Italy, Greece etc. Please see the graph at http://www.oftwominds.com/blognov11/drowning-in-debt11-11.html as best as I have been able to fact check it, it’s accurate.
    The fact of the matter is that in the UK there has been this complete delusion on housing “wealth” and the bubble has yet to burst, however as soon as “real” interest rates rise (when there is an absence of deluded fools to buy our “debt”) the edifice comes tumbling down, along with our banks.
    It will be horrid, however for the gilded few, courtesy of the public purse mainly (through cosy deals like the spivs getting to run a bankrupt NHS hospital, despite being manifestly unable to run their own at a profit, they will be on-track for a bailout pretty quickly, guaranteed they have accepted zero risk) through myriad tax breaks & tax inequality favouring (non) risk takers…. they will have no mortgage, money stashed in the BVI (like the majority of the cabinet), and will be ready to ride out the storm, or so they think, but the order is changing, they just haven’t realised it yet, their day will come, sooner than they think.

  11. Illuminating, ALM.

  12. I keep asking, in various quarters, “Why do governments borrow money in the first place?”

    But I never get an answer.

  13. I’m an atheist and dont need religion to know this is all wrong. And I certainly don’t believe that religion will do anything other than complicate matters and create division.

  14. It is indeed perplexing why our banking system operates in a way that has the Government borrowing money from the banks to finance expenditure, and for the banks to create the money they lend to the government out of thin air. Why not have the Bank of England create the money instead?

    The videos at http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/ are useful to understand how the banking system works.

  15. SAY MY FCUKING NAME
    .
    Powerful words that predict crash – are they true?
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp_-pdqigXo

  16. One of the biggest problems for me is the much used line “in the public interest…” In a democracy where the people are voting on information they are given- surely the whole democracy thing can’t work if information is held back? So- it would be in the public interest to have transparency?
    Why don’t we get the chance to vote on laws? Who makes them? Why can’t you defend yourself in your own home as a member of the public? Why should someone decide you can’t? This Democracy thing is clearly bullshit to keep people in their place with the illusion that we all have a voice. More so now that they have removed some of the corner stones- the right to a fair trial etc.

    As for religion saving us all – give me a fucking break- you’ve had thousands of years- and more infidels, none believers, gays, women, children and the rest of the innocents that have been killed in the “name of god” than for any earthly reason. God- the same entity that has allegedly only spoken to humanity a couple of times- the rest of the speculation on what he/she/it meant was written by man.
    (Sunni and Shiite Muslims disagree that Mohammed died on the toilet, so have been killing each other ever since!!!)
    If anyone is going to get punished by a higher power it’s you people- claiming you’re spreading the word of god!

    The sooner we remove the power from the banks, the Vatican and the religious freaks the better!

  17. Thanks Johnathan, ALM and others, very enlightening. Some 20 years ago I changed my mind on our economic system, sitting in a small working manetary group of the Gren party, we were figuring out the advantages of bartering vs. the usuary system.
    Unless our financial system mirrors the real values and assets that exist and unless these values have a sustainable and equitable base, our financial systems were bound to fail, Bretton woods unsustainable basis has led us into never never land. But change will not come easy, war, leviathanly measures of fascist proportions and elite campaings, deluded by the idea of global power and control will make it necessarry for 75% of finance institutions/systems to fail, before anything would drastically change.

    Such change will costs lives and the have’s will be under prerssure like never before, whilst the chaos that reigns in the transition can not be stemmed by a law that has been arbitrary and selective in the past. The rule of law should now focus on the crass casmn between those who exploit the system and the exploited and used, it is their last chance of honour before they get swept aside just as those they fettered for too long.

    The economics of diminished resources will reign in future, as long as we can stave of rising sea levels and accomodate the increasing chaotic weatherpatterns into the equation.
    The news of a 5% increase in comuter cycling here in East Anglia is merely a sweet’ner to this down beat message, but the sooner we get our chops around these basic ideas, the better.

  18. Demeter said: “I’m an atheist and dont need religion to know this is all wrong. And I certainly don’t believe that religion will do anything other than complicate matters and create division.”
    .
    Wot he says.
    .
    Religion has nothing to do with the current crises, and none of the so-called Great World Religions has anything to offer on solving them. They are all complicit in the current world order.

  19. Marcus, I wish I’d said that (You will, John, you will…)

  20. Derek, The Bank of England is in private hands and part of the BIS:
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6NcAzqAd6M

  21. @domino, I call your Zoroastrianism and raise you a humanism.
    .
    I’ve met personally enlightened Muslims and personally enlightened Buddhists, and it cheers me to see someone so excited and boundlessly happy about their spiritual discovery. But they often forget how personal these discoveries are, whilst they set about their enthusiastic converting of anyone and everyone they meet.
    .
    I’ve never met an enthusiastic Christian, however. Perhaps it’s something to do with the pervasive Puritanical ideology that suffering and misery is godly?

  22. What I`d like to know is this – who owns the UK government debt, and is it the same institutions (or some of them) which were bailed out after 2008? And who are the major players in the various markets – cash, commodity, futures – who are determining the trend of interest rates etc? It seems starkly obvious that many of these institutions will have to cancel or drastically cut down their debt claims otherwise the euro (and thus global) economy will go smash again. Comments?

  23. Some serious air manouvres being flown directly over my head, it looks like a practise for a targetted bombing raid of sorts for the last half an hour or so, definatly not low level flying.

  24. Where are you, Ingo?

  25. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8530150.stm

    The BBC looked at who owned government debt a few years back (although post Hutton the BBC has lost all credibility in my opinion, poodles led by noodles) in this piece. But there’s been a lot of printing (both lies & money) since then, by the kleptocracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy on all sides of the house…..and in the BOE, arise Sir Kleptocrat of mediocrity.

  26. There is one man who dares to speak truth to power in Brussels:
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdob6QRLRJU

  27. @Jon
    “I’ve never met an enthusiastic Christian”

    I have – give me the miserable ones any day.

  28. Protesters have occupied an empty building in Hackney that is owned by UBS (originally Union Bank of Switzerland until they combined with Swiss Bank Corp.)
    .
    We just had some brief drama here – noon
    Posted by MikeD on November 18, 2011, 12:19 pm, in reply to “The Occupy London protesters occupy empty USB building”
    .
    We just had some brief drama here. More or less as soon as I was escorted out of the building so the occupiers could hold a meeting, several heavily armed police arrived – they had a machine guns as well as handguns – followed by a few more vans.
    .
    The police looked very jumpy, ready for action. Protesters started leaning from the windows, worried.
    .
    Overhearing a chat between an officer and two activists, it transpired that police had received calls about a supposed disturbance at the UBS building across the road. The protesters assured police this wasn’t the case.
    .
    Things feel more calm now, but there’s still plenty of police around, and a police helicopter hovering over the building.
    .
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1321614374.html

  29. Stanton Carlisle

    18 Nov, 2011 - 12:58 pm

    Craig, you really need to stop filing all your blogs under ‘Uncategorized’. It’s seriously f***king chaotic for people trying to find something!

  30. TFS wrote: “just when you thought the financial crisis couldnt get any worse http://www.zerohedge.com/news/entire-system-has-been-utterly-destroyed-mf-global-collapse-presenting-first-mf-global-casualty

    Interesting, but the author claims that Obama is a Marxist. WTF? Obama is just as big a front man for Big Corporations as Bush. Even the so-called health care reforms only benefitted the ‘Health’ Insurance industry. His re-election warchest is heavily based on Wall Street contributions. He is just Bush redux.

    The author appears to blame the whole financial collapse on Obama, yet states the leveraging problem is endemic across all firms. She also appears to be a raving Xtian Islamophobe – burning the Koran on youtube and seeking cash donations. I suspect there is more to her story than meets the eye.

  31. ‘José Manuel Barroso, the Commission President, has criticised Mrs Merkel for not taking on opponents to the euro bailouts.
    .
    “Until now Germany has been one of the big winners from the euro. More politicians in Germany should say that clearly,” he told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. “It was not Greece, Ireland or Spain who invented the euro. It was a German-French project.”
    .
    The President of the European Council, the body that brings together EU leaders in summits, also confessed that the euro had been flawed from the moment of its creation in 1992, a situation that had not been made clear to voters.
    .
    “We are clearly confronted with a tension within the system, the ill-famous dilemma of being a monetary union and not a full-fledged economic and political union,” he said. “This tension has been there since the single currency was created. However, the general public was not really made aware of it.” ‘

    .
    Written in May 2010.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/7767898/Ordinary-people-were-misled-over-impact-of-the-euro-says-Herman-Van-Rompuy.html

  32. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8530150.stm this old piece of journalism (it’s a moot point if the BBC is a bastion of journalism now, post Hutton when it metamorphosised into the noodles led by doodles organisation it is today) covers the then ownership of UK Inc. debt.
    However there has been an awful lot of printing since then… (both money & lies) by the Kleptocrats masquerading as our representatives in Parliament. Arise Sir Printalot, prince of men, King of the Bank, Lord of mediocrity “independently” failing to meet any and all KPI (Key Performance Indicators) of the BOE…but he deserves a knighthood, for chutzpah if nothing else.

  33. Goldman Sachs controls Europe.
    .
    http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article6264098.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/Pg-12-eurozone-graphic.jpg
    .
    Don’t know why Spain, Portugal and some other countries are not included in the round up.

  34. Derek:
    “It is indeed perplexing why our banking system operates in a way that has the Government borrowing money from the banks to finance expenditure, and for the banks to create the money they lend to the government out of thin air. Why not have the Bank of England create the money instead?”
    .
    Because that leads immediately to hyperinflation. So does borrowing, in the long term, but as long as governments can pay off their debt by taking out more debt, no one worries about it.
    .
    The problem occurs when confidence in future ability to pay off ever-mounting debt finally collapses. It’s no coincidence that this collapse in confidence has occurred simultaneously with the peaking of oil production – oil being the main driver of the world economy.

  35. “I’ve never met an enthusiastic Christian, however.”
    I have. Mostly Billy Graham converts who were previously fairly sane. They’re evil.

  36. Tom Welsh:
    .
    ‘I keep asking, in various quarters, “Why do governments borrow money in the first place?”
    .
    But I never get an answer.’
    .
    A: Because their expenditure hugely exceeds their income.
    .
    No modern government could function without debt: it couldn’t pay its employees.
    .
    Having used up most of their tangible tradable resources, Western nations have had no choice but to use other countries’ resources and to pay for them in ultimately valueless currencies derived from debt.

  37. Does this show the great financial Ponzi scheme?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

  38. Franz, are we then at some point going to have to reinstate money controls and stiff commodity trading regulation to try and stop money draining out of the country? It seems to me that it is the intertwining of our economy with the mad global casino (complete with high frequency trading) which is dragging us down into the pit.

  39. Dave says
    BREAKING NEWS:All the institutions of the eurozone have to stand behind and support the currency – Cameron
    .
    Right. So what happens next Dave?

  40. Wether we like it or not finacial sercives currently make up a large part of our GDP. Whilst I would love to see a massive investment in manufacturing and non finacial service sectors it would be stupid to allow a tax that will drive money out of the UK, epecially at a time when we need the income. We need to rebalance our GDP sectors over the long term ( it cant happen in the short term because of the time it take to set up a manufacturing operation / base) Lets kill the financial sector when we have something real to replace it with.

    Knee jerk policys are supposed to be for our knee jerk politians. Lets me a bit cleaverer than them.

    I feel totaly vidicated in this position and post as I run a manufacturing company that is now the global market leader….. we can make things in this country, and we can make them well, we just need some investment and some brave souls to take up the challange.

  41. John K,Jon, Komodo: As I’ve posted before – the world needs more Quakers. Yes, religious but not complicit in ANY wars. They strive to live by the testimonies of Peace, Equality, Sipmplicity and Truth. Go check them out. They are very active in all areas of injustice. Turn up at their meeting for silent worship at OccupyLSX, sundays 3pm. They will be there as long as the camp is.

  42. Whether we like it or not financial services currently make up a large part of our GDP.

    I’m not convinced on this argument, didn’t the financial services industry just tank the global economy, and put us all on hock ad infinitum. No changes have been made to the operation of the financial services. Thievery from suits is now common law.

    Now with Northern Rock, what was the exact debts we keep after the sale, £46b?

    How much of this is:

    USA toxic mortgage loans? sue the American Banks for fraud.

    UK toxic mortgage loans? cancel the debt, and have millions of people owning their own homes, putting their spare cash into the economy, and get the housing market moving. Side effect of this is watching the bankers jumping out of the windows :)

    With loans to other countries, cancel out reciprocal debts, as highlighted on an earlier comment.

    Take ownership of the Bank of England, kick out the banker controllers, they kinda of played there game in their own self interest, and allow UK to raise money from BoE at zero charge for capital projects.

    Take civil servants and the bankers to court over the state sponsored PFI fraud.

    Kick the EU into touch its current form as it is undemocratic.

    Give Goldman Sacchs a very big slap

    regards

    TFS

  43. Pee
    .
    I have great affinity for most of the aims of the Society of Friends and if I believed in a God would certainly gravitate to them, for the reasons you enumerate and others: I share their abhorrence of gambling, for example.
    .
    But as I don’t believe there is a God who created us or watches our every move, I can’t in conscience do other than admire their principles while disagreeing with the though processes that led them there.
    .
    As I see it, an imaginary friend is still an imaginary friend, no matter how benign you imagine it to be…
    .
    But I do exclude them from the criticisms of the so-called Great World Religions.

  44. The financial transaction tax would make orgs more responsible, but the likes of Cameron would prefer to pocket money from financial instits. by letting them off. So in the world of Cameron, he prefers that money paid into political parties coffers as bribes than as a tax for the national good.

    If the industry is as big as they say, why would they be any different from industries such as retail, insurance etc?

  45. A Global finance tax is a good idea.. a european one ie one on the UK is a bad idea. I hate what is happening in our financial sector, I hate what they have done to us, but lets make sure we have something to replace the income stream before we shoot them all dead !

    I dont like Cameron, I dont like his policys, I dont like his politics, but he is right on this one. Its a global tax or no tax.

  46. Thanks for a ruefully entertaining piece
    .
    Allow me a brief observation qualified by a modicum of speculation.
    .
    Your characterisation of the establishment as oblivious to the unravelling equates, shall we say, to those up to about the 20th or so degree of Royal Arch Masonry and its affiliated European/US Brethern. I would include the public personas of practically all the think-tanks, institutes, foundations etc up to mid-ranking level at least, in the category.
    .
    My guess is that the largely dynastic masonic-type operatives above that level are pulling the strings of their juniors:-)) – It’s what they do. They do it in this case because the debacle and concommitant war-mongering that we are witnessing is all their own work. There is very careful planning and orchestration involved and they need cover
    .
    Think Le Cercle and related gatherings.
    .
    We live in interesting and deeply unsettling times indeed.

  47. @Tom Welsh

    ‘I keep asking, in various quarters, “Why do governments borrow money in the first place?”

    But I never get an answer.’

    Perhaps it is time to re-visit the Tally System. It did work for (700+?) years. The books were always balanced at the end of each financial year.

    The current system is functioning exactly as it was designed. It is designed to fail, and my god, fail it surely will.

  48. Come on guys, these scoundrels did not bankroll the “elected leaders”, so that their gravy train could be slighted! One percent you ask for? What is the world coming to? Might as well call it communism and be over and done with it!
    ,
    ,
    Franz,
    Blow it out of your elbow, anyone whom knows a little about money, and banking, will also know a governmentally owned central bank issuing money does not lead to Hyperinflation! Further given the current rash of QE (printing money to pay the bankers for their worthless speculations gone wrong) creates Hyperinflation.

  49. Thanks, Pee. Roughly what John K said. I do recognise and endorse their position re. the world. It’s the other stuff I can’t engage with. And I’m not really a joiner anyway…can’t do carpentry either, before you ask.
    (I’ve only been in one Quaker meeting house. The one where the Boston Tea Party kicked off, in Boston. Never quite reconciled that with the Quakers!)

  50. Alert! There’s a right wing sympathizer posting links here to this persons article at zerohedge.com:

    From Ann Barnhardt’s blog: http://barnhardt.biz/

    “Dear Rush Limbaugh . . .
    Posted by Ann Barnhardt – November 17, AD 2011 12:59 PM MST
    Apparently Rush just read my “Going Galt” shutting-down-the-brokerage letter.

    I am humbled. Wow. And he thinks I’m a dude. :-)

    Thanks to ZeroHedge.com for posting it.
    ……”

  51. Don’t know what you guys are worried about. The financial system is destroying itself. All you need to do is help it. Could be painful, sure, but ultimately worthwhile.
    Stop buying stuff, including houses. Act as if the apocalypse is here, and inflation is running at German ’30’s levels. Hoard the stuff you do need, like food. Get your money out of criminally profiteering institutions and into ethical ones – if you’ve got any. Refuse to borrow. Pass it on.

  52. Ingo –
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/16/mop_on_the_spirit_at_last/
    They may be stealthy, but they’re not invisible. Ask yourself how they are permitted to operate in controlled airspace at night if they do not use flashing strobes. Albeit discreet ones….

  53. Jonathon: “We live in interesting times” a chinese curse, and we sure do
    .
    I believe that the “curse” was more chilling than that. Something like, “May you live in interesting times. May you gain the attention of powerful people…”
    .
    Presumably the idea is that it could be a very good lifestyle to live in interesting times and have the attention of powerful people but equally it could be awful.
    .
    Furthermore I think that these days the Chinese origin of the proverb has been discredited but don’t ask me by whom.

  54. Passerby: I don’t really understand the way you write, but if my guess is correct, you’re disagreeing with me.
    .
    Printing money always leads, /sooner or later/, to hyperinflation. There is only so long you can go on pretending something created out of thin air has value. We’ve managed it for 4 decades, which is pretty good going really, but we won’t manage it for much longer.
    .
    As Max Keiser pointed on his show this week, there has never, in history, been a fiat currency which didn’t end up collapsing.

  55. This is one for Vronsky. I thought I would link this to him because he seems like a nice guy and I don’t want to behave too much like a donkey at the ballet. I wonder what he thinks of my choice:
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxIriexb-Bc

  56. Franz,

    Probably you won’t understand this too;
    Fiat currencies as in US $ and Euro, as well as UK £, are based on shell games played by the banks, whom generate the money by lending it!
    In other words the borrower has to borrow first for the money to appear!
    WRT Max, I agree with lots of what he says, but going back to Gold is not exactly the solution either.
    However, if a government run central bank were to start issuing currency based on the assets owned by the state, then we can start the recovery from the cleptocracy that has been masquerading as our banksters, and all the ills thereof. We all ought to wish for the end of the theft from the workers, who generate the wealth, by the parasites whom feast on the said generated wealth, and have little in the way of generating it other than speculating and stealing even more.

  57. Talking about Chinese proverbs – Man who run western bank on hill – him not on level.
    .
    Very true considering western banks pay 35% of their earnings in bonuses according to Max Keiser. Chinese banks are now allowing their customers to bank in gold or silver. Trust in Western banks is reaching an all time low – Bravo! Remember this:
    .
    “To pay for the debt, ultimately they[bankers] have to impose more austerity measures. So more austerity measures, more debt, more fees for bankers, more financial terrorism.”
    .
    And as we witness in Mary’s diagram the high priests, the ‘terrorists’ of banking[Goldman Sachs advisers]run Europe’s banks.
    .
    Moral of the story – Hey! if yuz got dosh, buy gold, silver or any precious metal now.

  58. Valuable post to read in parallel, from the other blog that’s essential everyday reading:
    http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2011/11/buckle-up-credit-crunch-2/

    Mega-confirmation that it’s not a sovereign debt problem, it’s still a banking crisis. We have to stop them destroying us …………

  59. Moral of the story – Hey! if yuz got dosh, buy gold, silver or any precious metal now.

    .
    Sure, knock yourselves out because some people WILL get rich doing that and some people WILL lose money doing the same thing. For some reason it is only the corporations who don’t buy gold. Look, I don’t get it alright. Let’s listen to some Pink Floyd again,
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X7K9uNONes

  60. Apologies for running a tandem thread on religion (but I didn’t start it!) Quakers are a ‘broad church’ and most would have difficulty believing in a little old man in the sky – it’s more about the human ‘spirit’. I have met several who describe themselves as atheist – room for all!
    Enough preaching from me. Won’t mention it again.

  61. The rot started with Thatcher – and there was no ignorance involved. She knew exactly what she was doing when she methodically dismantled British industry to revenge herself on the unions and put the working man “back in his place” where she was convinced the lower orders belonged.
    .
    Given that the UK has gone from a major industrial power to a ‘service provider’ (for other and more complex reasons than Thatcher, I do appreciate) the steady erosion has been utterly predictable. The bankers rule now? Hell – they ruled then and have ever since. If only via their proxies (or hadn’t we noticed how rich Prime Minsters seem to become after office?) We just didn’t see it. The only difference now is they’ve got greedier and greedier until it’s impossible for anyone not to notice – a bit of an own-goal in some ways.
    .
    The result will be – I’m convinced – violence on a large scale – and I’m not even talking about the violence Obamabush/Cameron/Netanyahu are already provoking. It’s been going on for years already, and attributed to ‘terrorists’. Many of whom of course were and are terrorists by any terms of reference. But the term is increasingly being used for anyone who opposes the new ‘World Order’, especially if they use methods that almost every community in the world seeking self-determination has used at some time in the past. The foundation of both the USA and Israel were often based on the actions of ‘heroic freedom fighters’ who today might amply qualify as terrorists. Their respective governments still qualify for that term. In WW2, the Allies consistently used tactics that costs innocent lives and might today be described as terrorism.
    .
    My point being that, when the violence starts in earnest (and I suspect we’ve seen nothing yet), the innocent are once again going to be ‘collateral damage’ for all sides. And there will be more than 2 sides. The ‘elite’ (and I agree a new term is needed – ‘scum’ perhaps – that rises to the top in the same way) might be defeated, I suppose. But I suspect they’ll just change. When a man fights for freedom he rarely gains other than a new master.
    .
    There was a time when Britain was – rightly or wrongly – regarded as a centre for democracy and freedom of expression. What a turn up for the books if we have to rely now on other countries to teach us, again, what the word ‘conscience’ means.

  62. Haven’t seen this nanny type lately on the box. Perhaps the British Bankers Association who employ her as their spokesperson have sussed that nobody believed a word she ever said.
    .
    On BBC Radio 4’s Analysis programme on 7 November 2011, Angela Knight discussed how her role as the head of the banks’ trade association had expanded during the financial crisis into a spokesman role: “The fact that I was answering the questions, and I was seen in newspapers, on TV and on the radio, meant that people would come up to me almost as if it was my fault. I was simply trying to explain that in the case of the banking crisis, it wasn’t a crisis for all banks, we weren’t the only country in it and there were a lot of complex issues underneath.”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Knight
    .
    Most of her Commons entries in 1997, the year she was booted out in the Labour landslide, refer to the Building Societies Bill – when building societies were readied to be turned into banks.
    .
    {http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?pid=22652&pop=1#n4}

  63. Knight was an MP during Major’s tenancy of No 10.
    .
    What he is remembered for on Wikipedia
    .
    28 November 1990 – 2 May 1997
    PM, First Lord of the Treasury & Minister for the Civil Service
    .
    Early 1990s recession; Gulf War; ratification of the Maastricht Treaty and the Maastricht Rebels; forced exit from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (“Black Wednesday”); the Downing Street Declaration (initiating the Northern Ireland peace process); Privatisation of British Rail; The National Lottery; Citizen’s Charter; Sunday Shopping; “Back to Basics” campaign; Cones Hotline; Dangerous Dogs Act.
    .
    Enough said.
    .
    Before him were 21 years of Thatcher. The entry for her:
    First female Prime Minister of the UK. Falklands War; sold council housing to tenants (right to buy); miners’ strike 1984–85; privatisation of many previously government-owned industries; decreased the power of trade unions; negotiation of the UK rebate towards the European Community budget; Brighton hotel bombing; Sino-British Joint Declaration; Anglo-Irish Agreement; Westland Affair; abolition of GLC; Section 28; the “Poll tax” and Poll Tax Riots; Lockerbie bombing; the end of the Cold War.

    .
    Sorry to remind you.

  64. +1 Passerby

    “WRT Max, I agree with lots of what he says, but going back to Gold is not exactly the solution either.
    However, if a government run central bank were to start issuing currency based on the assets owned by the state, then we can start the recovery from the cleptocracy that has been masquerading as our banksters, and all the ills thereof. We all ought to wish for the end of the theft from the workers, who generate the wealth, by the parasites whom feast on the said generated wealth, and have little in the way of generating it other than speculating and stealing even more.”

    Agree. But no way should politicians be responsible for issuing the currency or else hyper inflation becomes assured.

  65. “The tragedy of the 2008 crash was that the government missed a golden opportunity to reform the entire money system, by taking the issuance of the nations money and placing it in the hands of – where it rightly should be- the treasury.”
    .
    .
    its only a tragedy if it wasnt planned . i suspect much of this was and is planned and the outcome known . certainly the raft of laws here and in the US suggest that more was and is expected than the alleged threat of terrorism.
    .
    .
    are we really to believe that all the worlds economists, financial experts dont know or recognise the obvious resolution of the current banking/financial issues .. just as govts didnt know that the wmd claim was a lie/scam..
    .
    .
    whats amazing is that without a whimper we have moved from a limited democracy to dictatorships in europe .. but we dont call them that .. we call it technocracy.
    .
    .
    the underlying movement by the UK and US govts is towards fascism we can ignore it and claim its nonsense but its already happening .. just read the small print .. and pay attention to the militarisation of the police.

  66. “Mark Golding – Children of Iraq 18th November 2011″
    .
    .
    one thing the downfall of MF global informs us of is that segregated bank accounts and safety deposit box will not save anyone from their monies being stolen by the banks.
    .
    .
    that is the worst place to keep your money at the moment is in a bank.

  67. Eurozone debt web: Who owes what to whom?
    The circle below shows the gross external, or foreign, debt of some of the main players in the eurozone as well as other big world economies. The arrows show how much money is owed by each country to banks in other nations. The arrows point from the debtor to the creditor and are proportional to the money owed as of the end of June 2011. The colours attributed to countries are a rough guide to how much trouble each economy is in.
    .
    UK
    GDP: €1.7tn
    Foreign debt: €7.3tn
    Foreign debt per person €117,580
    Foreign debt to GDP 436%
    Govt debt to GDP 81%
    .

    Risk Status: LOW
    The UK has very large amounts of overseas debt, of which the biggest component is the banking industry. The high debt to GDP ratio is explained by the UK’s active financial sector, where there is a great deal of capital movement. This level of overall external debt is generally not seen as a problem because the UK also holds high-value assets. Having said this, the UK economy remains in the doldrums and the country is highly exposed to Irish as well as Italian and Portuguese debt. The UK in turn owes hundreds of billions to Germany and Spain.
    .
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

    .
    The words ‘Risk Status Low’ jar somewhat.

  68. I came across this quote, the perspicacity of the paragraph compelled me to stop my work and post it at once;
    ,
    ,
    “As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in
    the midst of the war.”

    ,
    ,
    Note the necessity of war for transference of the loot. Further, noteworthy point; “endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people”.
    ,
    ,
    The cancer of zionism was the prerequisite for total control, which is now complete in Greece, Italy, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, whilst the process continues relentlessly. Alessio Rastani said; I go to bed dreaming of a depression, he was not kidding was he?
    ,
    ,
    Sadly even when the game is given away, and the rigged game is exposed, the illiterate masses cannot comprehend the fraud that is perpetrated upon them.
    ,
    ,
    Identify the person quoted, and get 10 merits!

  69. Abe Lincoln, assassinated by Freemasons…

  70. I’ve long been of the view that there are actually good arguments against a financial transaction tax. Any such tax just leaves the present system intact, bad behavior isn’t necessarily discouraged, and, worst of all, gives traders a veneer of morality in their dealings – they are paying tax, so what could be bad about what they do? The current, failing structure is reformed, but not enough. Indeed it is only reformed so much as to keep it intact – which is what capitalism is good at. And of course, it would be very hard to enforce.
    .
    But of course, these arguments won’t be voiced by a Tory, so they play the nationalism card. On balance I actually favor a transaction tax, because Tories and Hedge Funds hate the idea. But I certainly don’t regard it as an answer to out myriad problems. Every article I read, every scrap of information that my poor brain can retain, all point in one direction: total collapse of the world economy, 1929 style. No Tobin Tax can prevent that.

  71. Stabwound Johnson

    19 Nov, 2011 - 2:57 am

  72. The rest of it was even stronger,and I can’t bare to look at it, but basically what I was saying partially in Arabic and I really don’t do Arabic, and neither does he.

    Basically, it said we are taking all your Iranian customers too.

    Its just kids talking to each other like Facebook and all the silly games.

    What I was trying to explain to the incredibly stupid American Right Wing Politicians was that there is going to be no nuclear war between you complete insane arseholes, and that Iran pays promptly on time in English pounds…

    And that us in the UK are taking all Your Fucking Business

    The World will Still Go On after We are using US Dollar Bills To Wipe Our Shitty Bums with

    The Value is With Our Kids Doing Something Useful If It Is Just Allowing Millions of Kids All Over The World Play With Each Other and Talk To Each Other

    Seriously, You Have Got To Believe This….

    The Kids are Doing It For Themselves and are Just Waiting For You Old Stupid Cnuts To Die…

    The Kids all over the world have been talking to each other and travelling and meeting each other.

    The Big Problem

    Will Die

    They Are Just Waiting For Us To Go Away

    They Have Far Better Morals

    Tony

  73. You see, it doesn’t really matter what you look like. When I was a teenager, I was incredibly shy, and could never ask a totally beautiful girl who I was in love with to get up and dance with me, in case she said no which would completely emotionally destroy me. So I never asked and went home all one and cried myself to sleep.

    But I got older

    I do realise, that now, that I have to get the eye contact right, and have the courage to ask her

    Sure I sometimes get turned down

    But at least I have the courage to ask

    They Nearly Always Say Yes

    And Get Up and Dance With Me

    I Was Much Better Looking 40 Years Ago

    Tony

  74. I don’t know about you, but of course I have asked some of the old dears to dance with me, and they have…

    But I have never been into the older girl “Mum” thing…

    It’s a bit more primative than that…

    The subconscious says what you see in my eyes

    “I want to dance with you”

    Tony

  75. What an amazing woman.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/17/helen-john-greenham-protester-drones
    .
    Protest and survive: the Greenham veteran who refuses to go away
    Thirty years ago, Helen John was the first full-time member of the Greenham Common peace camp. Now 73, she’s still hard at it, trying to stop drones operating from a UK air base
    [..]
    .
    “We have seen the back of the cruise missiles, the son of the Nazi V1 flying bombs; now we have their grandson drones bringing about indiscriminate destruction,” she wrote in a recent online rallying cry against the lethal pilotless aircraft currently deployed over Afghanistan. She signed off with a characteristic flourish: “In sisterhood and total defiance.”
    .
    We meet at Lincoln station, near RAF Waddington, an airfield where next year drones will be controlled for the first time from British soil. Currently, the appropriately-named Reapers, with their all-seeing cameras and cargoes of bombs and missiles, are flown by an RAF unit based in Nevada. The smaller time difference between Britain and Afghanistan is intended, John says, to make their operators less prone to tiredness and killing civilians.
    [..]
    The Greenham camp, she says, was established in better weather: the glorious Indian summer of 1981. Unlike some of the other founders, she was middle-aged, 44, and had not previously been politically active. “I went through life like a pudding. I didn’t notice a lot of things. I didn’t know what feminism was. I had five children, and had been working as a midwife.” Suddenly struck by terror and anger at the nuclear arms race, she decided to leave her family and live at the peace camp full-time, the first Greenham protester to do so.

    .

  76. Never mind a seperate section for the Zionist/NeoCon debate Craig,can we have a seperate section just for Tony please?

    @ Mary

    Yep you’re spot on about the disastrous Major years but maybe that was the pre-narrative to NuLabour?

    I’ve often wondered if Edwina Currie was actually a Zionist honeytrap to control/blackmail Major?

    ‘Tis but a thought…

  77. Major wades in.
    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/nov/18/tobin-tax-city-london-john-major
    .
    ‘Tobin tax’ would hit City of London with missile, says John Major
    Former prime minister says move to introduce financial transaction tax would fan flames of Euroscepticism
    .
    He would say that wouldn’t he? Too much to lose.

  78. You mean this ridiculous woman Jives? How could Major resist? He didn’t stand a chance.
    .
    http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/edwin-currie-strictly.jpg

  79. Yep that’s her Mary.

    I’ve suddenly lost my appetite for breakfast :.)

  80. @ Mary

    Major’s been well rewarded for his sacrifice though.

    Recently appointed European Chairman of the Carlyle Group.

    Kerchiiiiiing!

  81. Libya has big plans for its post-war future, hoping to be reborn as the next Dubai and having all the necessary sun and beaches, with oil reserves aplenty. British companies are likely to come out on top of those lining up for a piece of the action.
    .
    It was France and the UK who initially led the effort to topple Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. Britain, together with France, sent their navy and fighter jets to establish a sea blockade and assault military targets on Libyan territory.
    .
    Now the National Transitional Council (NTC) of Libya says its friends will be rewarded – and these are not just words.
    .
    In the last two weeks, the UK Department for Trade and Industry led a working party to Libya to look around at what needed rebuilding. The British government department estimates that Libyan contracts, in sectors from oil and gas to education and construction, could be worth some $315 billion over the next decade.
    .
    Oil firms Shell and BP have already held talks with the Libyan transitional government, which pledged to honor the Gaddafi-era contracts with them.
    .
    Now the NTC delegation is in London to hold talks with top business executives on the “massive opportunity to rebuild Libya.”
    .
    http://rt.com/news/libya-rebuild-contracts-uk-385/

  82. I think Tony is really Stephen/Julian sleepwalking…
    ..
    ..
    “Edwina Currie was actually a Zionist honeytrap”
    ..
    ..
    Beartrap, Shirley?

  83. Mary,
    Thanks bloody thanks, now I am off woman for at least a fortnight, how could you? That photo ought to be used as a contraceptive aid.
    ,
    Major must have been some desperate geezer to muster the courage and have a go at that. Probably a trap, surely not of the honey kind, but a fly trap kind. Nonetheless effective, imagine her telling anyone which incidentally she did, about her time with Major. The embarrassed PM owning up to being arseholed and in charge of the Nuclear Weapons.

  84. Does Tony do LSD? This is not beer talk, we are privy to. We are witness to some kind of tripping session he is enjoying; ” I was saying partially in Arabic and I really don’t do Arabic, and neither does he”.
    ,
    ,
    Ditto the man;
    Tony is really Stephen/Julian sleepwalking…
    …. a seperate section just for Tony…..

  85. For anyone interested – an interview with my favourite documentary maker, Massimo Mazzucco (The New American Century, Cancer – The Forbidden Cures etc.)

    Joyce Riley interviews Italian filmmaker MASSIMO MAZZUCCO GCN ~ The POWER HOUR 5.27.11. His documentary The NEW AMERICAN CENTURY extraordinarily exposes how every major war in US history was based on a complete fraud with video of insiders themselves admitting it themselves. His new film shows how US movie theaters have been used to broadcast propaganda; the white papers of the oil company Unocal which called for the creation of a pipeline through Afghanistan and how their exact needs were fulfilled through the US invasion of Afghanistan. He continues to show how “Halliburton under their “cost plus” exclusive contract with the US Government went on a mad dash spending spree akin to something out of the movie Brewster’s Millions, yet instead of blowing $30 million they blew through BILLIONS by literally burning millions of dollars worth of hundred thousand dollar cars and trucks if they had so much as a flat tire.” These lies of the past must be exposed so that one can understand the present.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e81mj6-lJ8g

  86. Occasionally Tony Opmopc says something relevant and sensible. If under the influence of whatever, how does he do all those capital letter shifts and no typos? Weird. Perhaps he types out a a batch when not under the influence of whatever and then fires them off one after another. Sometimes I feel sorry for his obvious anguish but at other times, it irritates.

  87. Until 2005 John Major was a highly-paid adviser to the American private equity Carlyle Group and has also worked for US firm Emerson Electric and UK car components and bus firm Mayflower. (he left in 2003, as the existence of a £20M accounting shortfall was being discovered. Mayflower went bust.)

    His more recent commitments are less well-documented, but this year they have taken him – and his taxpayer-funded protection team – to New York, Chicago, Manila, Zurich, Seoul and Jamaica.

    In October his busy schedule took him to Singapore and Stockholm and back to London and his home in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire.
    These movements were reflected in the expenses claims of his armed protection team, which included five nights in the historic Raffles Hotel in Singapore at a total cost of £2,154.

    The bill included two officers treating Sir John to dinner at the elegant Raffles Grill.

    Another claim includes a £516 bill for a two-night stay at the five-star Grand Hotel in Stockholm, and a further trip in March saw three officers fly with Sir John to Miami and then on to Seoul and Jamaica, with one officer submitting a claim for £6,761.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1291838/White-water-rafting-Sir-John-Major.html#ixzz1eAqVAh00

  88. Anders,
    10 merits for that man.
    ,
    ,
    Johnson,
    Citing one husband and wife source, whose references are; trust me I know. Theri contentions emphasis the phrase;”Money Powers” (an antisemitic trope) don’t cut much mustard, Abe Lincoln has been quoted many times in many sources included the 1935 published book I am busy with.
    ,
    However, this point bears little relevance to the debate; Disaster Capitalism which is the latter day dumbed down version of the same truth forwarded by Abe. For transference of ownership of natural assets of we the people to the “Money Powers” a war is the best vehicle. Furthermore the prerequisite for any war, is pandering to the prejudices of the great unwashed, and creation of divisions where none exist.

  89. No Craig, the logic of the system is just as it should be. Collapse is the aim. Any monetary system that has usury as its base is effectively no different to a pyramid scam, and like a pyramid scam can have no other outcome. It must bust.
    .
    If you think that’s a mad thought you should wonder at why usury was declared a sin in every major religion in the world. Apart from Judaism, that is. In Judaism usury is only a sin if you do it to Jews. If you do it to goyim it’s a virtue. Don’t argue with me, take it up with Leviticus.
    .
    As to why Christianity now embraces usury you’d have to go back to the reformation. I have no idea whose idea it was to declare that particular sin a virtue but they were either very wicked or very foolish. Or both, now that I think about it.
    .
    Anyway, we’re fucked. There’s more money now owed than there is stuff to pay for it with. How’s that for logic?

  90. We are living under the dictatorship of the usurious zionists.
    Whose loyalties are only to themselves and Israel.

  91. I’m not sure I am in favour of a Tobin or transaction tax. People surely have a right to defend themselves against currency debasement by switching their savings to a currency that they think is relatively strong. Should not we be taxing wealth (people who have acquired wealth, not transactions (people in the act of acquiring or attempting to acquire wealth)? If you have that and a robust system that prevents banks from making silly loans, a transaction tax would probably be unnecessary.
    Like stamp duty on housing, it is a tax that is easy to raise, but this does not mean it is fair.
    The Dutch have a wealth tax. After an allowance of around 20,000 euro, a 1.2% tax is imposed on the average amount of your wealth (value on first day of year + value on last day of year divided by 2). In this way they have got rid of inheritance tax and capital gains tax. Neat, and makes filing tax returns much simpler.

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