The 9/11 Post 3491


Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.

I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.

I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.

The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.

I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.

The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.

Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.

In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.

But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.

(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).


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3,491 thoughts on “The 9/11 Post

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  • Clark

    You know what you lot are? Fucking lazy, that’s what. You’ll watch a load of YouTube, just like watching corporate media entertainment. You’ll rehash a load of Truther claims from Truther websites, but you won’t bother doing even the most perfunctory checks.

    And your “arguments” are lazy too. If anyone challenges any of your Truther assertions, your only argument is that the questioner must be part of the conspiracy. You use that one argument over and over again, and yet object to being described as “conspiracy theorists”.

    I’m reading NCSTAR 1. Can ANYONE else be bothered to read it? Do you have any right to dismiss it WITHOUT reading it? Or do you wear your ignorance as a badge of honour?

    • Clark

      I’ve looked into this only very briefly (too much nonsense to counter, wasting my time). Official sources claim night-sights and glow-in-the-dark exit signs, but sceptics say that those sources would yield too little for the concentrations measured. Someone could have planted it, of course – if I’m tending towards the entire demolition scenario being a psy-op. Or maybe another matter being covered up – someone was keeping illicit radioactives on site, the reasons remaining classified.

      I don’t see how tritium would imply demolition anyway. You’d need to invoke some unheard of explosive device or weapon, so you’d be back in Flying Spaghetti Monster territory. But whatever, NIST seem to have identified the collapse initiation mechanism; that work needs to be refuted before there’s any sense in looking for demolition.

      • Clark

        Unheard of, unsupported by nuclear science (the public stuff, at least, but it does have to fit with the rest of physics), and never known to have been seen on any battlefield. It’s a long stretch…

      • Clark

        I wrote – “Official sources claim night-sights and glow-in-the-dark exit signs” – but actually I don’t know if official sources have addressed this at all; I’m not sure whether the exit-signs-and-night-sights theory was from an official body or from someone else.

  • Clark

    Truther logic:

    Truther – “We know the Twin Towers were demolished because hundreds of boxes labelled BB 18 contained detonators for the demolition”.
    Sceptic – “Here’s Littelfuse’s catalogue; BB 18 is a mains electricity safety device”.
    Truther – “But BB 18 MUST be detonators, because the buildings were demolished!”
    Sceptic – “Your argument is circular; you’re using your conclusion of demolition to support your ‘evidence’ for demolition”
    Truther – “You’re supporting the official story, so you must be part of the conspiracy”.

    This is how witch trials were conducted.

    Prosecution – “You’re a witch, because feverfew was found in your cottage”
    Defendant – “That isn’t feverfew, it’s rosemary”
    Prosecution – “But it must be feverfew because you’re a witch!”

    Have you no standards?

  • Paul Barbara

    Lying again, Clarke:

    Here is my comment:
    ‘Paul Barbara
    February 26, 2016 at 23:10
    @ Clark: ‘“Urban” is quite a common surname and New York has a population of millions; can you substantiate that the Urban of the Gelatin performance art group was in fact involved with the “Dancing Israelis” and Urban Removals..’

    No, I can’t; just another of the remarkable set of ‘coincidences’ occurring re 9/11.

    ‘…And can you substantiate this:
    “the cardboard boxes weren’t just any old boxes; the numbers on them show they had originally contained special fuses of the kind used in controlled demolition”

    Yes, I could, but it would require too much work for me, seeing as if I presented the links to you, you would dismiss them. Do the work yourself, if it really interests you.’

    ‘but at least you’ve discredited Paul Barbara’s claim that he could prove the boxes contained detonators:’

    As is clear, I did not mention ‘detonators’. So the only one you have ‘discredited’ is yourself, once again, as if you have done already innumerable times on this blog.

    • Clark

      No, I decided to use the word “detonators” to avoid confusion inherent in the word “fuses”, since “fuses” can mean either devices that initiate detonation, or it can mean electrical safety components.

      It’s you that’s lying, Paul. You claimed you could prove that the boxes contained fuses for demolition, but Littelfuse’s catalogue shows that they contained (holders for) electrical safety components.

      Grief… Someone please sympathise; it’s like wading through porridge.

      • Clark

        Fucking hell, I just opened a mains plug and it had a 13A fuse in it! So I checked some other plugs and they’ve ALL got fuses in. The CIA must be about to demolish my house! Argh!

        • Paul Barbara

          @ Clark September 26, 2016 at 18:43
          ‘Fucking hell, I just opened a mains plug and it had a 13A fuse in it! So I checked some other plugs and they’ve ALL got fuses in. The CIA must be about to demolish my house! Argh!’

          Once again, you’re lying, or are more of an idiot than I thought. I do not believe you opened up a number of mains plugs, as you would already know that they contain fuses, without needing to check.

          And remember, Gelatin weren’t CIA, but linked to a ‘Foreign Country’ that is supposed to be an ally of the US.

          • Clark

            Paul, you’re right, I didn’t open any mains plugs. But I wasn’t lying, I was taking the piss.

            Are you for real? Or in Yorkish, what’re y’like?

      • Paul Barbara

        Again you’re lying, with the evidence right there to prove it!
        ‘“the cardboard boxes weren’t just any old boxes; the numbers on them show they had originally contained special fuses of the kind used in controlled demolition”.
        ‘…of the kind used in controlled demolition…’ is NOT the same as saying ‘..fuses for demolition..’

        And you put words into my mouth, to ‘avoid confusion’!
        ‘No, I decided to use the word “detonators” to avoid confusion inherent in the word “fuses”, since “fuses” can mean either devices that initiate detonation, or it can mean electrical safety components.’

        So, lies to cover lies….but ‘only to avoid confusion’.

          • Paul Barbara

            @ Kempe

            I didn’t say they were Israelis, but some of them did lodge in an Israeli’s two properties in New York.
            The whole story of Gelatin does not ‘prove’ they installed explosives, but it is surely rather suspicious, being just a floor or two below where the ‘plane’ is supposed to have struck.

          • Kempe

            It was John Goss claimed they were Israelis but then every Truther website and video that covers the story makes the same erroneous claim.

            Gelatin shared the 91st floor as an open space with other artists. I doubt any explosives planted there would’ve remained undisturbed for the better part of a year besides there is no evidence that there were any explosives.

            http://www.gelitin.net/projects/b-thing/

        • Clark

          Paul, Rebekah Roth’s assertion is dishonest. It obviously plays on the multiple meanings of the word “fuses”. It’s designed to TRICK people into thinking that the boxes were used to deliver detonator fuses, and it successfully tricked me as to its meaning. It even says “REMOTE controlled demolition”, ie. radio activated; why on Earth would such devices require 115 amp 1000 volt power feed lugs, which is what the catalogue states BB 18 to be? “BB” almost certainly stands for “bus bar”. The title of the catalogue page is “bus bar system”:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_bar

          Whatever, do you believe me now? These are mains electrical power distribution components; it’s utterly normal and boring to find them in buildings and they have nothing to do with demolition, remote controlled or otherwise.

          Now, you either accept this or not; check it with an electrician, electrical contractors, or on a demolition technicians’ forum; wherever you like. But if you DO accept that BB 18 are just mains distribution components, please tell me what you think of Rebekah Roth’s Methodical Deception.

          But my guess is that you’d rather just go silent on this matter, thinking something like “well you win some, and you lose some”. But truth isn’t about winning or losing, it’s about descriptions fitting the facts. Or are you a New Age type, who thinks that nuclear chain reactions are possible only because Leo Szilard filed a patent?

          • Paul Barbara

            ‘..Paul, Rebekah Roth’s assertion is dishonest. It obviously plays on the multiple meanings of the word “fuses”. It’s designed to TRICK people into thinking that the boxes were used to deliver detonator fuses, and it successfully tricked me as to its meaning….’

            It may have ‘successfully tricked you’, but that doesn’t seem too difficult….most folk associate ‘fuses’ as electrical fuses, and ‘detonators’ as – yes – explosive detonators.

          • Clark

            Oh I see. So if you asked your neighbour why he was digging in his garden and he said he was planting bulbs, would you assume he was burying 60 watt quartz-halogens or something? Maybe you’d even expect them to sprout?

            Anyway, hundreds of BB 18 115 amp 1000 volt power feed lugs would have no conceivable use in demolition. So why, do you think, did Rebekah Roth tell us otherwise? Why did she call them fuses at all, which they’re not?

            Paul, you’re getting into a similar position as the US authorities over 9/11. It’s getting so hard to believe you’re really this incompetent that I’m beginning to doubt your good faith.

  • Clark

    What’s really, really depressing is that humans would rather argue, fight, smear and lie than simply admit error.

    It’s ego that tells us we’re right, even when we’re wrong.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Clark September 27, 2016 at 02:55
    ‘Oh I see. So if you asked your neighbour why he was digging in his garden and he said he was planting bulbs, would you assume he was burying 60 watt quartz-halogens or something? Maybe you’d even expect them to sprout?

    Anyway, hundreds of BB 18 115 amp 1000 volt power feed lugs would have no conceivable use in demolition. So why, do you think, did Rebekah Roth tell us otherwise? Why did she call them fuses at all, which they’re not?’

    No, they are not fuses, and I (nor, I believe, did Rebekah Roth, though if you can isolate where she said it, please do so) never said they were – THEY ARE FUSE HOLDERS.
    You are a waste of time, most of the time.

    • Clark

      Each of the mainstream TV programmes and cartoons in the compilations you’ve linked was written by someone. Please make a list of those writers, because they must be either very dangerous criminals, or they know who the perpetrators of 9/11 are. This is a real opportunity because those writers names are very easy to find, in the credits for the TV shows.

      Well done TFS; I do believe you’ve cracked it!

        • Clark

          I really must move to Iraq and live among ISIS and Al Nusra. It’s just too dangerous here in the West, surrounded by cartoon writers, performance artists, structural engineers, air crash investigators and Israelis with flats in big cities.

          • Clark

            Syria will undoubtedly be a much safer place when the moderate rebels have beheaded all the dangerous criminals like the ones above.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Clark September 27, 2016 at 12:19
    ‘Syria will undoubtedly be a much safer place when the moderate rebels have beheaded all the dangerous criminals like the ones above.’

    You surely forgot to add at the end of your sentence after ‘above’: ‘..at the behest of their US, Turkish, Saudi, Qatari, Israeli and NATO paymasters and arms suppliers’.

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