« Assange Sex Charges Detail
Naming Anna Ardin on Newsnight »
by craig on August 20, 2012 5:22 pm in Uncategorized
Newsnight tonight, BBC2, live.
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:25 pm
Can anybody get me a copy of Aaronovitch’s recent vitriolic Times article on Assange. It is hidden behind a firewall.
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:29 pm
I shall be watching avidly, good luck with the article, I am sure someone on here will be able to get a copy, my usual advice is to ‘google it as a question’ however I have never needed to get an article from behind a firewall!
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:32 pm
I do hope all here are tv free. If not think why do I need a tv.
Good luck Craig.
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:34 pm
I’ll get it for you give me a few mins
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:50 pm
You have Gavin Esler, he of Dateline. No comment. Likes the sound of his own voice. These types are all pals together but wipe the smirk off Aaronovitch’s face please Craig. Having had a serious operation recently, you would think that would have been a life changing (and mind changing) experience for him. Unfortunately not it seems. I occasionally look at his Twitter and feel sick.
Esler’s rocking around with Anna now!
George Galloway and Hillary ClintonIn 2005 Gavin Esler interviewed George Galloway on Newsnight regarding the London bombings. The BBC was reported to have received hundreds of complaints about Esler’s interview. The criticism was that Gavin Esler’s questioning was “rude and aggressive”. However, Peter Barron, editor of Newsnight, defended Esler’s questioning of Galloway’s tactics: “…I accept entirely that while Mr Galloway’s views run counter to those expressed by mainstream politicians they are views that may be held quite widely across the country and perhaps particularly in parts of London such as Mr Galloway’s constituency. The thrust of Gavin’s questioning was to ask if it was wise to express these provocative views – effectively “I told you so” – at a time when many politicians and Muslim leaders had been appealing for calm. I believe that was a fair and appropriate line of questioning.”
In 2007 a BBC publication investigating into impartiality in the organisation criticised an unnamed BBC news presenter for writing an article in the Daily Mirror newspaper headlined “Why the World Needs Hillary”, stating they had been “unwise” for doing so. The headline appeared to endorse Hillary Clinton to be the next US President. The newsreader in question was Esler, although the offending headline was inserted by the Daily Mirror sub-editors without his knowledge.
In 2007 Esler separated from his wife of 28 years, Patricia Warner, who lives in the family home with their two children. In late 2008 Esler began living in a townhouse in west London, with rock violinist Anna Phoebe.
His hobbies include camping, hiking and skiing.
Send me a working email address and its yours!
20 Aug, 2012 - 5:59 pm
Now the BBC are having a go at George Galloway. All the guns are blazing.
Nothing from Agent Cameron or Cleggover of course. Holidays dear boy, eh!
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:00 pm
Darn it. Don’t have a TV. I heard Aaronovitch speaking yesterday and his argument was basically that the Swedish system is a stainless, exemplary judicial system, among the best in the whole world, and that Assange has nothing to fear. Seymour, of Lenin’s tomb covers a lot of what Aaronovitch said in his piece.
Why no use of Occam’s razor here, to cut through the complexities and endless speculation that have built up around the case. It is deeply suspicious that any judicial system would expose itself to such criticism and appearance of ineptitude without some over-riding political agenda. There must be big stakes here to see such entrenched positions. Even ardent Tories must start to wonder about Hague’s competence.
it is all becoming quite surreal. At some point soon here must be some kind of decisive move as the stale mate we have at the moment is very charged.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:05 pm
Good luck Craig Murray. If your stuck for a broader point to make please consider pointing out that the stupifying propoganda and deceit of the regimes state news has become a joke that most people don’t believe or listen to anymore. And if that Mark Urban and his ridicilous digital pen is there please ask him to stop being so creepy and get a proper job
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:13 pm
Craig, please post here if you have the article.
Frank Bowles, please check your Inbox.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:15 pm
The word ‘rape’ is repeated throughout.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:16 pm
Frank Bowles, I can’t e-mail you as I don’t have your e-mail address. The link on my screen name leads to my contact details.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:19 pm
Go for it, Craig! I’m looking forward to your Newsnight appearance this evening with interest.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:20 pm
Incase no one remembers who he is – here is a photograph of Newsnight’s official fantasy map maker
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:26 pm
This should be funny. A workman arrived at Bliar’s London house and a maid allowed him to erect a stained glass window of St Tony over the front door.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:29 pm
Aaronovitch has always been what I call mucky. He is now discussing the gynaecological details of the Swedish women.
Mensch has put this on her Twitter. She thinks it is so f u n n y! http://twitter.com/LozVox/status/237488522783756288/photo/1
These people are just revolting.
Mark Golding - Children of Iraq Association
I have serious concerns with the US/British “Inhibited Travel List” operated under the radar of most parliamentarians.
I believe there exists a number of travel-related security programs and databanks employing new technologies that only a couple of years ago would have been considered science-fiction. These programs allow governments to risk-score travellers, as well as collect and retain an increasing amount of personal information.
Some travellers (Assange lawyer) encounter serious problems at airports and are often unable to understand why they are targeted, while those unfairly targeted or victims of mistaken identity or racial/religious profiling are unable to seek redress.
I have great concern at the potential for abuse and violation of travellers’ rights in light of the discretionary and arbitrary powers granted to UK Customs officials checking passengers passports against several databases.
There exists inadequate legislative framework, lack of due process and judicial review in the use of arbitrary and discretionary powers and criteria to list individuals. This means a complete absence of any meaningful redress mechanism, data collection and information sharing practices, and the potential violation of privacy rights.
I intend to address this obscene, US originated, cloaked and little known dark practice with a petition and an exposure of the facts on a Facebook page soon. I hope you will support me.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:30 pm
For a contrary opinion on legal “myths” (including “The allegation of rape would not be rape under English law”) surrounding Assange, see lawyer David Allen Green
who in turn links to:
Even if the above commentary is all accurate I don’t believe the implicit threat to the Ecuadorian embassy was because of alleged crimes in Sweden, but rather because of political anger at Wikileaks.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:41 pm
Good summary of the orgasmic hatred that the entire British media have for Assange. It reminds me of the support Bush received from the US media when he invaded Iraq. Especial vitriol from the once “liberal media”. They are acting like a jilted lover, and making themselves look ridiculous.
Can you imagine anything more vile than the trio of Aaronovitch, Melanie Phillips, and John Rentoul, the three stooges of the British media. Well, Britain, what are you going to do about the fact that you have lost an independent press ? Or are you too busy stuffing your face with mad cow disease, to even bother ?
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:46 pm
Frank Bowles succeeded Craig as President of Dundee University Students Association. This is his LinkedIn profile and he should be contactable via it http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/frank-bowles/0/882/222
I assume it will be that Frank Bowles.
20 Aug, 2012 - 6:51 pm
BTw, delete LinkedIn details after contact if the mods want. As Frank posted under his own name, and I linked a public profile, I hope it is ok.
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:00 pm
I would like to pose a question that I hope others will try to answer, because I am not sure of the answer (I can feel it in a way that I cant properly articulate). WHY DOES THE BRITISH MEDIA, ESPECIALLY THE GUARDIAN, HATE ASSANGE SO DEEPLY, THEY GO HYSTERICAL AT THE MERE MENTION OF HIS NAME ?? Look at today’s hysteria over Galloway’s remarks:
The Guardian passionately hates Galloway, but the real driver behind this over-the-top article is, I believe, a loathing for Assange that is so profound, the Guardian is at risk of excreting its intestines.
I dont for one minute believe that this rage is driven by concerns about rape. Leaving aside the fact that this was a CIA sting operation and as Naomi Klein has shown, is a fabrication, even if Assange is guilty of rape its a legal technicality, not the kind of vicious rape that would set the blood boiling. No, its not the possibility of rape (unproven and not even charged) that the media hate so much about Assange. Its something else. Its as if he has been able to do what his critics have dreamed of and have no prospect of ever doing. The hatred seems to me (and I am a psychologist of sorts) to be driven by pathological envy.
What do others think ?
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:01 pm
Pity that you can’t be at all sure you won’t receive a last-minute call from a hapless Corporation underling telling you, as on so many previous occasions—54, was it?—that your participation is no longer required.
Ratings-challenged Newsnight editor Pete ‘The Ripper’ Rippon, can take heart, however: for Murray fans if no one else, this does inject tonight’s efforts with that magic element of suspense he no doubt seeks.
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:04 pm
Maybe it was 29 times.
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:11 pm
Speaking of George Galloway Mary, I thought you might like this little snippet I found. Not too sure about the ‘ad’ at the beginning unless of course one thinks about the volume of ‘illegal’ arms flowing into Syria – anyway enjoy!
Best wishes for tonight.
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:26 pm
For really keen students. From Sweden, most detailed dossier, as far as I’m aware, that’s appeared anywhere. Adults only: http://bit.ly/As7zSA
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:42 pm
Great news that Craig. You should have no problems but he’s cagey. I know from a head to head between Vaughan Smith and Aaronovitch 4 days ago on Channel 4 shows that he’s seen the video where Julian Assange interviewed President Correa for Russia Today.
Best of luck. It will be good to see you back on television again in this ‘free’ country of ours. The ambassador who came in from the cold.
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:43 pm
for anyone wishing to watch without tv, try http://www.tvcatchup.com/ i think its still free, might require registering, and its pretty much live tv
20 Aug, 2012 - 7:54 pm
Frank Bowles, please check your Inbox. My first e-mail to you was returned undelivered, but I’d made a typo in the address.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:05 pm
[Possible Broken version in mod queue - delete that one]
The tvcatchup lot are a bit strange. Although I use it a lot out of convenience (there’s an Android client as well as a mobile web interface in addition to the standard desktop version) they do have some strange politics. Although they carry every other “Free To Air” channel on Freeview they refuse to carry RT News on the grounds that it is a “Russian propaganda channel”
Much to the annoyance of some broadcasters their live stream service has been held to be legal by the courts.
You could just watch at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_two_england/watchlive
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:13 pm
Although they carry every other “Free To Air” channel on Freeview they refuse to carry RT News on the grounds that it is a “Russian propaganda channel”
Well they may be right!
[Mod/Jon: posted as Anon, but same IP as "resident dissident"]
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:16 pm
Anon, we have Russia Today on Freeview. But on our main TV from Virgin they don’t include it. Not with the basic package we have anyway.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:17 pm
Isn’t rather strange that the BBC have actually invited you onto a programme?
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:19 pm
And luckily there are no other channels in their line-up carrying state propaganda for them to object to. Oh wait a minute…
Anyway hope all goes well tonight Craig.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:22 pm
“Can you imagine anything more vile than the trio of Aaronovitch, Melanie Phillips, and John Rentoul”
Assange, Galloway and Murray the founder members of the sexually immoral against America? I know who I would prefer my teenage daughters to associate with. Well at least we have Ecuador that beacon of free speech. Cue the usual buckets of bile.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:25 pm
No Virgin don’t include it either and I have Virgin. I Do get it on FreeView though. However Livestation is what I usually use to watch when mobile. Livestation also carries Press TV Iran along with the more “normal” stations.
RT Moscow is frequently requested on the tvcatchup forum but they seem to be determined not to carry it.
The former Marine Brandon Raub who was detained by the federal government over Facebook posts critical of the government is being held in a psychiatric ward, Peter Bacqué of the Richmond Times-Dispatch reports.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/former-marine-brandon-raub-is-being-held-in-a-psychiatric-ward-over-facebook-posts-about-911-2012-8#ixzz247EtIdA1
US no longer is a country of rules and laws, no one can assume to be safe. As the above story shows, the land of the free, so long as you suck up to the gobiment and keep on being a good “citizen”, otherwise as is the case with Raub get beat-up and arrested by the FBI and Secret Services in handcuffs.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:27 pm
Alaric/Anon, interesting – not heard of that service before. Seems like you do need a license in the UK to use it (source: Wikipedia) but they don’t really have much way of checking. Interestingly they used to have a KnowledgeBase article on this topic, but it appears to have been deleted.
I was intrigued to find a source for their refusing RT on the grounds of propaganda, but couldn’t find anything. Got a link? They’re right in a sense, but of course if they don’t find the Beeb slightly propagandistic, then, erm…
“I heard Aaronovitch speaking yesterday and his argument was basically that the Swedish system is a stainless, exemplary judicial system,”
May be not – but like the US and the UK it does have a better reputation than that of Syria, Iran, Iraq under Saddam, Russia, North Korea, Soviet Union, China, Libya under Ghadaffi, Serbia under Milosevic and all those other regimes that have received support here from time to time. Don’t believe me go and read some Amnesty reports
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:29 pm
Anon (blue) and Anon (black) – please would you consider using better screen-names?
Hi @Resident Dissident, please stick to one handle. And if you could avoid “Anon” (same to you other “Anon”) that would be great – saves on confusion!
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:36 pm
This can’t be happening – will be called off last minute.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:37 pm
Jon, do you know if Craig got that article yet?
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:43 pm
Clark, don’t know. But to be fair, Craig speaks well off the cuff, so not critical imo.
20 Aug, 2012 - 8:46 pm
Here is a quote from the tvcatchup admin from their forum (you need to be registered to read it so I won’t post a link)
” BBC News channels is the top one on here on TVCatchup with Al Jazeera and Sky almost equal second.
Russia Today is a not bad News Service but they are subjected to extreme political pressure and are not really objective in their reporting. As was seen in the Georgian Conflict a few years ago when the reporter said, “look at the Georgian helicopters shooting the poor villagers”, then the camera panned to the right and there was a group of Russian solders cheering them on – then suddenly the screen went blank and cut to a smiling presenter. Opps!
…I totally agree with you about Sky News as it is trashy somewhat like the Sun of the IPTV world, but RT is no better as it is full of misleading propaganda and I know this for a fact.
Mind you if enough people want it then we will consider it
Despite it being regularly asked for they have not reconsidered.
He’ll most likely has a laptop on him with a dongle, or can use his blackberry to access info, so he’ll be able to get info right up to 10.20pm, he’ll be in the studio well before 10.30, for sound checks, etc.
Keep trying, the more ammo the better.
@Craig – if neocon team member Aaronovitch paints Sweden as stainless blah blah, I’m sure you will mention how they have helped the CIA break the Geneva Convention (I don’t use the word ‘rendition’). But another point you can make is that he can’t be serious, given that, as all Swedes know, Sweden is owned by one family, the Wallenbergs.
If you weren’t previously aware of that fact, and are sceptical, I suggest checking it with Swedes of your acquaintance.
Do any of us really believe that another power, with its embassy not in Knightsbridge but in Mayfair, on Grosvenor Square, isn’t involved in this obscene centralised effort in the British media?
Party differences, and supposed political differences between newspapers, seem to have disappeared.
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:13 pm
@N_ – I’m not aware of the Wallenbergs, but I’d say that even if it’s verifiable, it sounds too evil-lair-theory and is easily painted as mad/paranoid. Craig would be best sticking to what we do know: the refusal of the Swedish prosecutors to come to London, their refusal to explain their refusal, Assange’s previous willingness to be questioned whilst he was in Sweden, and his ongoing willingness to answer questions in London. Also, there is substantial evidence that the US is preparing a case against him.
@all: by the way, if the US is planning to extradite Assange, on what basis would they do so? He has presumably broken an American law, but he has been living in UK/Sweden and is an Australian citizen. Of course, the pat answer is “they will make it up as they go along” (and well they might) but I’d hope they’d present a better legal basis than that!
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:20 pm
Youtube have taken the Australian video down. Is there another link to it?
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:25 pm
So they have N_ they claim it is due to a copyright challenge from Journeyman Pictures, but it might be more sinister than that.
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:29 pm
@Jon – it’s not either-or; the points you mention are good too. But if Aaronowitch ladles it on really thick about how Sweden is all goodness and light and fairness, which he probably will do, it might be worth mentioning. If a scandal ensues, I was thinking enough people would check it out by asking Swedes they know, rather than waiting for the next talking head. Just to explain where I’m coming from. There’s a limit to how far you can fight the MSM using MSM means.
@N_/John: nothing sinister as far as I can tell – just a copyright claim. I would assume this copy from the broadcaster is the same thing (though I didn’t watch it on YouTube). I’ve added a comment on the relevant post.
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:33 pm
This link works N_ http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:48 pm
Is there one major whistleblower who does not—however reluctantly—back Assange? Wonder why. Here’s Ellsberg: http://bit.ly/NNy7pU
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:50 pm
@John Goss & @Jon – thanks!
Just thought of an exception: Heather Brooke, who was saying privately, before the Swedish allegations, that Assange had made a pass at her.
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:55 pm
Karl Rove is a deluded man, his vision of a world with America at the helm is I believe a childhood dream, a fantasy that propels his obsessed, mono-perspective mind. His book ‘Courage and Consequence’ reflects an extraordinary intelligence constrained by a limited mental range.
Norwegian blooded Rove has been advising Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt for the past two years and I believe his fingerprints are all over the Julian Assange case.
Rove knows the inside track on rendition, look it up, he has studied enhanced interrogation techniques to deny them. Yet he failed to turn up before the House Judiciary Committee on ‘extraordinary rendition’ but that is not his way, this man works his nefarious web from behind the scenes.
And from behind the stage curtain he ensured the case against Julian Assange was reopened by urging Reinfeldt to bring in a legal heavyweight to push the rape charge. The ideal man would be Thomas Bodstrom, once a Justice minister whose claim to fame is that he delivered two hapless Swedish-resident Arabs to a CIA rendition plane so that they could be tortured in one of Mubarak’s jails. Rove also knew Anna Ardin could easily be subverted.
Rove is propelled, he knows he must protect the Bush legacy at all costs, it is a culmination of his life’s work – from bringing down the Twin Towers to the destruction of Iran, the blueprint must remain within his grasp; it was that myopic mind that told him as he stood weeping after a call from federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, his plans remain intact.
Of course Rove had just been told that there would be no charges for leaking Valerie Plame’s name to the media, a vindictive exposal, a dishonest leak that endangered the lives of at least forty operatives in Britain and Iraq.
20 Aug, 2012 - 9:56 pm
. . . though Brooke is more of a journalist than a whistleblower as such.
As to the quality of Sweden’s legal and judicial system, it is certainly true that it is likely of a high standard in the great majority of cases but the Assange case is now so politically and media charged that the behaviour of people within the legal system is not the same as might be expected in more sedate circumstances. Many people are under a great deal of pressure and their moves are scrutinised.Not easy conditions for anyone.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:16 pm
??? No mention of Craig or Aa
Presenter Gavin Esler
Participant George Galloway
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:25 pm
Given that extradition between the UK and the US hasn’t been the most difficult thing to arrange in the past – perhaps some people here should be asking why he feels safer here than in Sweden – might it not just be that he knows he is guilty of the crime of which he is accused? Some perhaps also be asking why such a large number of people who he has worked with in the past now don’t have a good word to say for him. On the other hand you could just carry on believing he is right on because he doesn’t like America and is there by definition a good guy.
@N_ – I respect your view, but we still disagree. Ultimately, persistence with repeating well-known but conveniently ignored facts, to counter the MSM approach, is best placed to win the day. Radicals such as Craig won’t win by appearing bonkers (and note I am making no such judgement).
If the Wallenbergs are offered as a “they own the government” theory, then additionally a cynical opponent like Aaronovitch will claim your real theory is “Jewish wealth”, regardless of its veracity. That becomes a further trap to get out of.
Anyway, I found this article on the topic; their WWII history is very interesting, as are the comments.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:27 pm
Hoping the debate will be shown. Interested to see how Craig defends Assange actions. Though a sympathiser with the idea of Wikileaks and an admirer of Assange’s bravery in “whistle blowing” I fail to understand his actions in avoiding the Swedish legal case. I remain unconvinced because i can’t believe that he is more likely to get deported to the USA from Sweden than from Britain.
Best of luck
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:31 pm
@resident dissident – you are welcome here, but it is probably better to assume good faith of everyone on this thread. If Assange is proven guilty of a sexual crime then I can’t imagine anyone here would want for him to get away with it – I certainly would not.
What is your view of the Swedish refusal to meet with him in London, or their refusal to explain that refusal?
I appreciate people accused of common crimes do not normally get to set the circumstances of their meeting with police, but given his status as a whistleblower, I think there is a public-interest defence in making such a allowance. What is your view on that?
Out of interest, and perhaps relevant to explain your view on Assange, what is your view about Wikileaks? Shining light on dark corners of US imperialism, or an impediment to the natural secrecy reasonably required by modern international governance?
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:41 pm
@Bob (new) – I think the relative likiliness of extradition from either country is very complex, since it is not just subject to the political views of each Establishment and each country’s sensitivity to covert American pressure, but the structures/conventions of their legal systems as well. I don’t know whether you or I could make a judgement on it, since we’re not international law experts (I presume!).
There were some speculations here if you’re interested, but then there’s a lot of views both ways on the web (from both the Left and the Right). My present position is that Assange’s legal advice is that he would be best to stay in the UK, and in general anyone is well advised to pay heed to their solicitors!
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:42 pm
Ah, it seems Craig is not ‘up against’ Aaronovitch but ‘a woman’ and a ‘critic of Assange’s behaviour’. What a nice way to trivialise this. because of course ‘women’ are only concerned with sexual issues and not about the political and diplomatic ramifications of the case as a whole.
I do hope he points out that this is not a gender issue. I do hope he points out this is not a trial of sexual morals, because otherwise where would the current mayor of London be?
And I hope that there will be room for real debate. But given that Newsnight is approvingly showcasing some ‘think tank’ suggesting that social housing be taken away and sold off (the ‘area’ thing is a distraction) before cutting to a ‘debate’ and has started this Assange debate off with ‘he’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy’ I doubt it.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:47 pm
Btw, of course: if anyone can point to a video of the debate after it has aired, please add a link in the comments.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:49 pm
NB many of the most coherent commentators on CiF were women disputing these attempted definitions of ‘rape’ in this extremely murky case which should never have been publicised in the first place, and pointing out that the women in this case have been let down by the justice system and the prosecutors.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:52 pm
Todd Akin. George Galloway. Craig Murray. Anti-women, pro-rape.
20 Aug, 2012 - 10:55 pm
@Alan Campbell – that view is seriously unhinged.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:01 pm
@tech – I agree. I heard at least a year ago that one/both of them had withdrawn their claims. However if there were any truth in either/both, the chances of a fair trial are probably slim now anyway.
(I’m in no way trying to diminish the claims made by the two women, who must be assumed to be making the claims in good faith. But the politicisation and publication of their cases may well influence the fairness of a trial, and this must be taken into account by their public prosecutor.)
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:10 pm
I just watched the interview, to see that Aronovitch had been replaced by some woman. I thought that Craig was good, but too self effacing. He named Anna Ardin as one of the women, but was not able to finish his point because the woman went all mouthy. He should have pointed out that Newsnight runs under British law, and the injunction does not apply here but instead he waffled about how her name was well known. Not a good answer and it allowed her to keep giving it tongue.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:13 pm
What a page full of total wankers.
All three are sympathetic to religious extremism. Makes it easy to lightly dismiss rape and the rights of women.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:17 pm
Sure would be nice to have a link to that interview.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:21 pm
Resident Dissident and Bob (New):
Q: Why didn’t the US just extradite Assange from the UK?
A: The US knew that an application for extradition would have alerted Assange, who could then have taken refuge in an embassy. The US preferred Assange to be taken into custody, and thus deprived of that option.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:22 pm
@Alan, I suspect you know that Craig is not remotely sympathetic to religious extremism, as his past articles attest – especially regarding Iran. You’ll have to do better than that. See my points to @Resident Dissident if you want to try something trickier.
@Jeff T, you’re welcome to join in if you have a civil point to make. Even Alan makes half an effort, and we’re quite used to his ad hominem!
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:23 pm
So now the BBC exists to defend justice and shine a light on alleged criminal acts committed at home and abroad? I don’t seem to recall any such concern for justice being shown when allegations of war crimes and illegal invasions have been made against members of the Westminster government. Another hole in the damm of the regime
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:24 pm
Ben Franklin, it will go up on the Newsnight page later tonight or tomorrow. Alternatively you can watch it via the BBC Player.
By the way, the knowledge that Anna Ardin got slung out of Cuba for mixing with pro-American groups needs to be more widely known. I would hope that the Cubans will have a dossier on her and release it. If it can be shown that she is a Langley asset rather than just a fellow traveller it would help Assange greatly.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:25 pm
Alan Campbell, is telling lies the only way you can support your cause?
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:27 pm
Agreed technicolour, what a stereotype presentation, steering past the facts, the moment Craig spoke facts, they both talked over him.
Newsnight editors felt assured of his good behaviour towards women, and or in the company of.
Ms indy on sunday is ill informed, lax towards the Swedish state’s lack of concerns for both women, not a word about the abysmal performance of the Swedish prosecutor Ms. Nye, her dithering and failure to divert global publicity via her Swedish publications.
Why does Ms Harris fail to mention these monumental failures? then there is the failure to interview Mr. Assange when he was volunteering and the subsequent clearing to go abroad, leave Sweden.
just as some dumbstruck Guardian reporters, Ms. Harris has just outed herself as ‘Hatchet Joan of bandwaggoning fame’, no different to Galloway, who must have been playing with himself whilst jumping to his sexist conclusion, on to the band wagon hey ho hey ho.
Ms Harris wants a little fame, bless. Maybe next time she is better informed and less lead by the nose.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:29 pm
Naming one of the victims on air. Stay classy, Craig.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:30 pm
I think this is deeply disturbing. If, as it may be, Assange used these women selfishly for sex, what should be the penalty? What should a man get from a legal system for fucking consensually, though without a condom, or having a stiffy in bed? Ten years? A day? A swift kick in the chestnuts?
And, at the same time, as I sadly predicted, the background to this case – Bradley Manning, the persecution of Wikileaks, the real revelations of Wikileaks, the real evidence that the US will extradite Assange from Sweden, because they can, and they want to – go unflagged.
Sometimes the personal is not political.
At least try and fucking talk the language, the illiterate wanker that you are, it is misogynist and not “Anti-women”, with men like you there is no need for fucking women, you are just doing fine when it comes to bitching and whining. (no disrespect to proper women)
Pro-rape, this is the fucking limit, next we potential rapists (all men excluding the wankers like A. C.) that we all are, we will be accused of rape for not ogling at the attention whores.
If only we had a parliament filled with Craig and George kind of men, sure as the day is long life would have been a higher quality experience than the current miserable existence to watch “our war” on the telly.
Spending our money to kill the Afghans and Arabs over there, and to keep us in hunger and destitution over here, due to the incompetent bastards the likes of you filling the seats in the parliament
Sorry all but, I have hit my bullshitter tolerance limit.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:31 pm
Alan Campbell, “Victims”? You’ve decided on Assange’s guilt already, have you?
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:32 pm
Galloway, Akin, Assange. Different political beliefs, all vile misogynists.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:35 pm
Anyone know if there was a reason Aaronovitch pulled out? I’d check if he has a Twitter feed, but I am not sure I could bring myself to read it!
@Ken, about the two women. If either/both are plants – and that is not at all established as far as I know – they still deserve to have their rape claims heard, providing they still stand by them. My view is that if the Swedish prosecutors came to London, they’d not subsequently be able to construct a case that would go to court. (If they questioned Assange and then decided to press ahead with a court case, his next move would be very difficult. I imagine he would then be best obtaining assurances from the Swedes that subsequent extradition would be denied, and then if that assurance is given, go voluntarily to Sweden).
Alan Campbell, on what evidence do you regard Assange as a misogynist?
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:36 pm
You can’t handle the truth.
Kick Aaro’s backside good and hard!!!
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:38 pm
Is that the line you are going to take in your debate with Craig? You are in big trouble, pal………
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:39 pm
Yo Craig, caught Newsnight. You got in a good point about fit-ups of you, Ritter etc but why
didn’t you Glesgie up yer accent and tell that ghastly lesbian man-hater to shut up?
For any reader having a discussion with a freedom-hater THESE are the salient
FACTS. In August 2010 the Assange case was tried informally by the Swedish prosecution
service and Miss Eva Pinne the chief prosecutor of Sweden declared ‘NO CRIME HAS
BEEN COMMITTED’. They gave back JA’s passport and told him he was free to go.
Case closed. Thus there is no charge outstanding against JA because you
CANNOT ACCUSE SOMEONE OF A CRIME WHICH DID NOT TAKE PLACE.
Sweden is the ONLY European country with a fast track extradition treaty
with the US, called ‘temporary assistance’. It means ‘you can have first dibs but send him
back when you’re done, in, like 80 years.’. Thus JA’s feet wouldn’t touch the ground before
loading into a US plane. There seems to be some token nutter and rape maniac called Alan
Campbell on here. Has to be one. Feed not. Craig be more SCOTTISH.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:41 pm
“they still deserve to have their rape claims heard”
apparently in one case, the issue was reduced to ‘minor rape’, whatever that is, and in the other there was no case of rape at all.
but, and I’m sorry, because I segued, this is a distraction. Assange has not been charged with anything, let alone rape. He has not been ‘on the run’; he is clearly somewhere where he can be questioned. He has agreed to be questioned. The question remains, why are the Swedish prosecutors not questioning him?
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:45 pm
[Jon/Mod: deleted for persistent ad hominem. Stick to arguments please]
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:47 pm
“ghastly lesbian man-hater”: yeah.
Feel guilty: we need to go back to the point of this. Why is a man who has not been charged with anything hiding in a small room in an equivocal sanctuary when the evidence against him is tainted, outdated and minimal? Naturally because he fears the fate of Bradley Manning. (please google, anyone unaware)
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:51 pm
Craig Murray, I am a woman. I am NOT a misogynist. And I agree with you, I think Julian Assange is being set up.
I am astounded at the amount of people who can’t see this fact.
As an American, I thought the yanks were gullible, but the Brits are just as bad.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:53 pm
Alan Campbell says:
“Craig came across like a complete knob on TV. You have a face and a voice made for blogging.”
I won’t tell you how you come across, Alistair Campbell.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:55 pm
Who exactly is this Charles Crawford idiot and why is he gunning for you? Is this part of an organised disinformation campaign?
Jon, other legal arguments I’ve seen state that a country cannot promise not to extradite someone pre-emptively; they need to see the charges, and decide upon the merits of the case. But the US hasn’t submitted any charges or an extradition notice, so Sweden doesn’t have an extradition request that it can refuse.
Technicolour, apparently the Swedish system works in a different way than we’re used to, and suspects can’t be charged until they’ve been taken into custody, which is what the (second) Swedish prosecutor wants Assange in Sweden for.
The thing is, once in custody Assange would have lost his chance to claim political asylum by reaching an embassy or a supportive country; his right to political asylum would have become purely theoretical. So he had to pre-empt being imprisoned.
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:57 pm
Just a few examples of your new admirers, Craig:
watching Craig Murray on #newsnight is stomach churning, how was this bloke ever a diplomat? His poor wife and these women…
No wonder Julian Assange is terrified to return to Sweden if Craig Murray is the best person he can find to defend him on #newsnight?
That’s some going by Craig Murray. Pipping George Galloway in the prize-knobber of the day competition. #newsnight
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:58 pm
Disappointing interview designed to obfuscate Assange’s legitimate fear of extradition to the US and no mention of the grand jury investigating wikileaks. Esler clearly knows the real score but focussed on the trivia thereby assuring the British public never gets the details from the BBC. (Anyone notice that Mark Thompson has been such a good soldier carrying America’s water that he is now going to be CEO of the NY Times?
20 Aug, 2012 - 11:59 pm
I just saw the Newsnight interview with Craig. Esler was constantly censoring Craig, but worse than that, surely he and the BBC already know (but chose not to reveal) some rather crucial facts: 1) The “rape” case had already been heard and thrown out by a Swedish judge. 2) The case was mysteriously re-instated AFTER the USA expressed outrage at the leaks about its own conduct in the middle east. 3)Assange freely left Sweden on a scheduled flight and has NOT BEEN FORMALLY CHARGED with an offence, only requested to attend more questioning.
At the very least you would have expected the BBC to report truthfully that a large proportion of the UK population believes this to be a stitch-up.
Why did Newsnight not acknowledge these facts? Why did Esler object to Craig naming one of the accusing women? They are already known by everyone, except apparently the BBC. Reporting restrictions of this kind apply only within the UK, not another country.
Why did the BBC not show Craig’s speech outside the Embassy – probably one of the most important speeches of its kind in the UK for many years. The Beeb is an embarrassment. By any measure its failure to report this case properly is deeply worrying.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:01 am
And my favourite.
“Craig Murray, who reached the giddy heights of Ambassador to Uzbekistan, making the case for tougher entrance exams for the FCO. #Newsnight ”
Take my advice, Craig. Stick to writing for your mates on this blog in future. Jeez, is it any wonder you got stuffed in your two attempts to become an MP.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:04 am
“Technicolour, apparently the Swedish system works in a different way than we’re used to, and suspects can’t be charged until they’ve been taken into custody, which is what the (second) Swedish prosecutor wants Assange in Sweden for.”
My (admittedly limited) knowledge of this is that suspects can’t be charged until after questioning. If Assange were questioned here, and the Swedish prosecutor then decided there was a case enough to answer for him to be charged, then extradition would be attempted on that basis.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:05 am
Strangely Esler referred to the English Supreme Court (formerly the Law Lords), I think this might be a recognition and realisation that its writ does not apply in Scotland, despite its having a token Scottish placeholder, and politicising it by calling it the United Kingdom Supreme Court has backfired and destroyed the last shred of the law’s credibility.
It didn’t seem to go well, you were out “holier than thou-d” Craig.
Words fail me, and to think we are subject to extortion to fund the BBC in such treachery.
I used to wail at those who said, ‘Don’t vote’, don’t give them that excuse of legitimacy, now I am not so sure if even minute turnouts would stop them, it’ll just seem like old times for the squirearchy. No way can this coalition last this month out without widespread disorder, with events over the past weekend in the unlikeliest of places a taster.
What does anyone make of the extraordinary post on the last thread about another political asylum seeker in the Ecuador Embassy, Andrea Davison; Chilcott etc. If she’s real surely she isn’t incommunicado and could have a stint on the balcony too. I suppose if the Embassy is abandoned it could be seized by the algae-sucking Tory Phibbs, acquired as part of London council’s public housing stock and sold off to one Harry’s true blue Tory right sort.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:06 am
The US are deliberately holding back their charges and their extradition request for Assange. They knew that once their extradition notice was served, Assange could claim political asylum with some country or another, so they deliberately waited. A bit of stick, carrot and insider assistance got the closed sexual assault allegations re-opened, which was exactly what the US wanted, because Assange in detention wouldn’t be able to run for political asylum.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:08 am
Doing a great job. Please keep putting Alistair back in his coffin. He’ll buzz off soon enough.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:13 am
@VivaEcuador – Charles Crawford is another ex-ambassador, with whom Craig has traded arguments (and a few insults) via their respective blogs. Charles posts from a very right-wing perspective imo, and doesn’t seem to be moved from that position despite the despicable and dishonest manner of Craig’s ejection from the FCO (newcomers here are encouraged to find out about that for themselves).
Some folks have suggested that Charles is a patsy/stooge for the Establishment – i.e. being fed views by a handler – but I disagree. I think he puts forward his own views, and they’re pretty unpleasant: here’s the circumstances in which the accusation of complicity in torture can be avoided.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:14 am
Cryptonym, I don’t think I can find the page again, but following an article to a source suggested that Andrea Davison went to an embassy in Ecuador rather than the Ecuadorian Embassy in London.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:16 am
@VivaEcuador – thanks. For the avoidance of doubt, all views are welcome here, including criticism of Craig, Assange, even the Pope ‘imself. But persistent derailing or abuse is usually removed, since everyone else’s speech is a great deal freer that way.
We are all getting pulled into the kill zone of the neocons, with arguing the toss about the accusations of a couple of deranged characters at best, or SIS assets at worst.
Fact is Assange is getting the shaft because he thought he could ride the dragon by getting into the mainstream media game show, and keep his alternative style of busting the bastards balls with outing their secrets. Te same bunch of sharp operators who would like to keep everything a secret, and attain undue advantages on us mortals. Simply put Assange challenged the system that is designed to give us the people the mushroom treatment: keep us all in the dark and throw shit at us all.
We need to come up with a new tack, no more fighting the bastards on their preferred grounds, we need to set up our own references and stop falling into the neocon trap. The fact that a condom was torn is no longer a trade liability issue between the females and the Swedish Justice system and Durex company, this has somehow mutated into now smearing George Galloway and Craig as “rapist” sympathisers.
The shameful use of the “rape” as a cover for the Kafkaesque trial of Assange et al is the lowest these neocon bastards have stooped to.
Anyone know if there was a reason Aaronovitch pulled out?
My money would on the beeb chaps trying to unsettle Craig et al, by getting these to prepare for a scenario, that is then changed at the last minute throwing them off their balance. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book when it comes to the kind of translations we are witness to.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:20 am
Craig Murray was done a grave injustice tonight; and interruptd by the odious Esler when telling us of worrying false accusation
There is more pseudo-liberal ‘outrage’ at Galloway and Craig Murray than against the blowing to pieces of kids by US drones.
Latest Twitter diversion is hate frenzy against Craig Murray. Meanwhile wars go on and governments laugh at us.
BREAKING: Fury as human rights activist Craig Murray names victim of alleged Assange rape as John Leslie.
Just watched Craig Murray being shouted down on Newsnight. Depressing to hear how usually liberal tweeters enjoyed the spectacle.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:21 am
“The case would become public almost immediately. One accuser, Anna Ardin, had been the organiser of a speaking engagement by Assange in Stockholm, and had offered Assange accommodation.”
Better shut down the “Sydney Morning Herald” eh? But Craig, best you hadn’t said the name – that’s the sort of thing I’m sure “they” wanted. Charles Crawford is having multiple orgasms on twitter.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:38 am
And while some are gloating at tweets hating Craig, here is another interesting twitter search for them to look at https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/anna%20ardin
Honestly, it’s a joke!
“No one is to throw anything, even, even, if I do say Anna Ardin!”
I suppose we’ve all just got used to the Internet, where names are named and no one can stop it. Why do people even bother with the corporate news media? It is simply unfit for purpose.
Thanks for the background and the links which I will follow up.
FYI, I made a lengthy post on Crawford’s blog about an hour ago which was held up for moderation (or so the message said). It was unusually polite (for me) and pointed out the inconsistencies in the case against JA. I have gone back and there is now no evidence of any posts. Now maybe Crawford has gone to bed and my comments will appear in the morning but I have my doubts.
The impression I have from Crawford is that he is trying to show off his legal “expertise” and completely avoid the substance of the case against JA (surprise, surprise). That’s their strategy – throw doubts into people’s minds about the sanctity of the Vienna Convention 1961 and ignore the strong possibility that JA is being extradited on false pretenses.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:39 am
Here is the Newsnight interview just uploaded – Aaronovich backed out?
BBC likely to cut the i-Player
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:45 am
Why the interview is not on bbc iplayer. Darn it i missed some arse kicking.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:49 am
The pretty terrible thing here, I think, is that sexual relationships, in the absence of love, can be terrible. Which is why, even amongst the most well-meaning on CiF. people spent so long obsessing about precisely the details which any disinformation campaign would want them to obsess about; what is rape, what is right, what is wrong.
In the absence of love, apparently anything you do in bed could be a crime. The women in this case are being criticised for having talked happily about Assange after sex. This is not a bad thing. The fact that their experience may have been used afterwards for political purposes is a bad thing.
Joan Smith suggested that it might ‘take some time’ for people to realise they have been raped (I paraphrase). To my knowledge, this is not the case. I would be happy to be contradicted, but otherwise I maintain that a violation (for a man or a woman) is recognisable as such.
Of course all this is being carried out against a backdrop of mass murder, torture and blackmail, and rapes. Facts which Assange, and his organisation, and other members of the British media, have bravely contributed to revealing. I think it would be a bad thing if Assange were extradited to the USA. I think there is no doubt that the USA are trying for it. and that, as many have attested, it would be easier if it were done through Sweden, where he has fewer high profile supporters (thank you, Craig et al) and where he would have no freedom of movement, and where his initial trial would be held in secret.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:52 am
Essler is a pig. I love the way he and the witch sitting next to Craig got all uppity when Craig mentioned Anna Ardin’s name which is known to everyone. Craig, I admire your dignity but that was the time you should have lost your temper. You broke no laws and Essler’s behaviour was typical of the BBC mafia that think THEY are the story, not the interviewee.
Anyone with a brain who saw it will conclude that you won.
I agree Ken regrettably Craig was sandbagged. Without proof that a stratagem occurred, Julian and his lawyers must confront an unpleasant situation with resolution and assurance. The situation has summoned an emotive focus that is evolving as we speak as the media circus gathers momentum.
Evidence appears from the strangest of places and the clincher here is I believe within reach of those willing to work hard to find it.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:53 am
No offense, but everyone know their names, it’s everywhere on the web. Sweden dropped the case originally, and also, Assange has no history of assault at all. That is big tip off, he’s not a young guy and people who do this sort of thing generally don’t start in their 40′s. Just saying, it’s a least likely there is more going on here.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:55 am
Thanks for the link. I wish I hadn’t seen the buttfucking with Craig as ‘catcher’. 7 minutes?
I smell a lot of rats.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:56 am
But the simple argument is, of course there should be a trial, as long as there are guarantees against extradition to the rouge state of the U.S.
Which would never happen. Because the idea is to transfer him from one jail to another, Sweden being the facilitator of torture rendition before.
21 Aug, 2012 - 12:57 am
Haha thanks for the link
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:00 am
Fwiw, thought Gavin Esler was, almost desperately at times, trying to give Craig Murray a platform, but the interview was wrongfooted from the start.
Another aspect of what is ‘really’ going on here is that Latin America is itching for the chance to humiliate a deflated empire. No one there watches or cares about Newsnight.
Get used to being under the thumb of other people, or at least their equals. Your supercilious insults and verbiage isn’t going to impress the world in this century.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:04 am
Fevered response from Ms Smith, Esler & a chunk of the twittersphere to your admittedly incautious mention of Ms Ardin does, however, serve one purpose. It clearly demonstrates their ignorance even at this late date of central aspects of the scandal which so easily precipitates them into a froth. It’s clear indication all of them have yet to watch the detailed ABC investigation, most thorough, as far as I’m aware, thus far. Had they seen it, they wouldn’t have reacted the way they did:
Have come to the conclusion that Rove or whoever’s brilliant condom stratagem (& I don’t doubt that at a personal level Brother Julian really is, sadly, somewhat of a sleazeback) has triggered seismic atavistic responses across contemporary culture, particularly in otherwise apparently rational women.
Polite forwarding of the above link some hours ago to someone called Emma Kennedy had the frightening effect of turning her into a jumping cracker of furious tweets. One of them—she later deleted it—significantly read, ‘Do not try to change my mind.’ I’d simply requested her to watch the ABC film & if poss. give me her response. Felt compelled to comply with instructions & scram, when she tweeted: ‘Just. Leave me. Alone.’
Turns out she works for the Guardian.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:05 am
Purple – Do you live in Latin America?
somewhat of a sleazebag
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:06 am
Another BBC stitch-up.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:08 am
For what it is worth, I have been posting this video repeatedly on the Guardian CIF, the DT discussions and the FT debates. It is amazing to see the reaction from the Hang Assange High! lobby. Total silence. They just don’t want to hear about it.
I asked them repeatedly – did you watch it? Silence. They prefer the taste of sand in their mouths.
I crossed swords with a twerp called Woop on the FT. He kept referring to “RAPE allegations” and said anyone who supported Assange was a freak. So I asked him finally:
Why do you refer to “RAPE allegations” instead of “rape ALLEGATIONS”?
No reply. They have no reply. Your Emma Kennedy’s reaction surprises me not one bit.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:11 am
You might be right Clark though my re-call of it was that she failed to appear in court for sentencing on trumped up fraud charges, sought asylum in the London Embassy of Ecuador. Hence the suggestion in the links that in any raid on the Embassy she would be the target of arrest or assassination before Assange and is the cause of the threats made to Ecuador.
With explosive issues such as her being a bio-weapons ‘expert’, a scion of the petty aristocracy; Camerons involvement in South African nukes sold for Tory party funds, then ‘stolen’ in Oman; close friend of Dr. David Kelly and Gareth Williams, took part in Iraq inspections etc etc. Some part of this must be verifiable, at the very least that she was a witness called before the Arms-to-Iraq Scott enquiry. I realise the whole thing could be disinformation and the blog writer obviously has an personal axe to grind with this elderly lady who might put most of nu-labour and many tory grandees behind bars –if she exists.
What she needed before all her paperwork. computers etc. were seized would have been some sort of whistleblower outfit, such as wikileaks.
Assange had friends in this country, like Lord Lucan he could have gone to ground indefinitely, but such a story could just as easily cover his ‘disappearance’ proper.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:13 am
Esler and the neoliberal womans uppitiness when Craig Murray mentioned the Swedish womans name was quite an amusing Monty Python/The Day Today moment. You could almost feel them explode in indignant self righteous ecstacy at that point. ‘You vill not zay sis vord’ (apologies German people)Do these people understand what is actually happening in the real world and how it will affect them?
I was slightly disapointed not to see Mark Urban lurking around with his magical pen though – maybe next time
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:17 am
Quite so. And in fact they proved Craig’s point – we are not allowed to refer to the truth in today’s world of mass communications. We must pretend that we don’t know the name of the alleged victim. Ignorance is bliss etc…. What a charade.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:26 am
@Chris Jones: ‘I was slightly disapointed not to see Mark Urban lurking around with his magical pen though – maybe next time.’
Brilliant. Really did laugh out loud.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:34 am
This is the innocent who together with other friends of the butchers of Fallujah, and of death squads around the world, the people who daily kill and mutilate women and children by the dozen is demanding that Assange (who has publicised the crimes of evil governments) be punished.
Assange is on one side.
His enemies are on the other, along with the CIA, MI6, and the authors of a million evil deeds, which they are intent upon concealing, which is why they want to make an example of Assange, just as every day they make “examples” of Trade Union organisers in Colombia, strikers in South Africa and shi’ites in Arabia
“Anna Ardin (the official complainant) is often described by the media as a “leftist”. She has ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups. She published her anti-Castro diatribes (see here and here) in the Swedish-language publication Revista de Asignaturas Cubanas put out by Misceláneas de Cuba. From Oslo, Professor Michael Seltzer points out that this periodical is the product of a well-financed anti-Castro organization in Sweden. He further notes that the group is connected with Union Liberal Cubana led by Carlos Alberto Montaner whose CIA ties were exposed here.
“Quelle surprise, no? Shamir and Bennett went on to write about Ardin’s history in Cuba with a US funded group openly supported by a real terrorist: Luis Posada Carriles.
“In Cuba she interacted with the feminist anti-Castro group Las damas de blanco (the Ladies in White). This group receives US government funds and the convicted anti-communist terrorist Luis Posada Carriles is a friend and supporter. Wikipedia quotes Hebe de Bonafini, president of the Argentine Madres de Plaza de Mayo as saying that “the so-called Ladies in White defend the terrorism of the United States.”
“Who is Luis Posada Carriles? He’s a mass murderer, and former CIA agent. . . .
“Luis Clemente Faustino Posada Carriles (born February 15, 1928) (nicknamed Bambi by some Cuban exiles) is a Cuban-born Venezuelan anti-communist extremist. A former Central Intelligence Agency agent, Posada has been convicted in absentia of involvement in various terrorist attacks and plots in the Americas, including: involvement in the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed seventy-three people; admitted involvement in a string of bombings in 1997 targeting fashionable Cuban hotels and nightspots; involvement in the Bay of Pigs invasion; [and] involvement in the Iran-Contra affair…
“Luis Posada Carriles is so evil that even the Bush administration” (pretended that it) “wanted him behind bars:
“In 2005, Posada was held by U.S. authorities in Texas on the charge of illegal presence on national territory before the charges were dismissed on May 8, 2007. On September 28, 2005 a U.S. immigration judge ruled that Posada cannot be deported, finding that he faces the threat of torture in Venezuela. His release on bail on April 19, 2007 had elicited angry reactions from the Cuban and Venezuelan governments. The U.S. Justice Department had urged the court to keep him in jail because he was “an admitted mastermind of terrorist plots and attacks”, a flight risk and a danger to the community.
“Who is Julian Assange’s chief accuser in Sweden? She’s a gender equity officer at Uppsula University – who chose to associate with a US funded group openly supported by a convicted terrorist and mass murderer. She just happens to have her work published by a very well funded group connected with Union Liberal Cubana – whose leader, Carlos Alberto Montaner, in turn just happened to pop up on right wing Colombian TV a few hours after the right-wing coup in Honduras. Where he joined the leader of the failed coup in Ecuador to savage Correa, the target of the coup. Montnaner also just happened to vociferously support the violent coup in Honduras, and chose to show up to sing the praises of the Honduran junta. Jean-Guy Allard, a retired Canadian journalist who now writes for Cuba’s Gramma, captured the moment..”
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:39 am
I was less depressed by Newsnight than my readers. I found the pretence we don’t know who Anna Ardin is risible. And I thought the obvious attempts to cut me off every time I got going were very off-putting to many. There was never any chance of discomfiting the political correctness of Smith and Essler (who are both perfectly nice people) but the seed that there is another way of thinking will have been planted.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:41 am
Here’s another one – not surprising, since the old Etonian writer also contributes to the fake liberal Guardian too..
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:47 am
I strongly disagree.
Like many of his ilk, Esler is a neocon flag-waver. He lambasts anyone showing the slightest pretence of being ‘to the left’ so-to-speak, and positively lavishes praise on the most loathsome warmongers in the western military alliance. The man was obviously out to get you in this particular interview. I suggest you re-watch it carefully and observe how he positively salivates when you mention Ardin’s name. You were outgunned by two corporate hacks desperate to maintain the same old fetid mainstream consensus. They were looking for anything that would prevent you from following your line of thought.
Esler is a dispicable piece of work.
21 Aug, 2012 - 1:53 am
As a woman, I thought Joan Smith was appalling. She even said “how dare you name a rape victim.” Funny, I didn’t know he’d even been charged let alone sentenced.
I have complained to PEN that she is using their name to make herself seem some kind of human rights champion, when she is clearly another instrument to get Assange carted off.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:08 am
Joan Smith is a feminist author and columnist. Her books include Misogynies and the Loretta Lawson crime novels. Phone hacking victim. Republican, secular.
Chris2′s quoted excerpt deserves a link to support it:
Regarding the mock outrage at Craig’s naming of Anna Ardin, it is quite important to the Powers That Be to keep this name suppressed, to prevent as many people as possible from finding links like the one above.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:10 am
2h Aaron BBC Journo Aaron BBC Journo @jetsetjournoBBC
@polblonde I understand! There’s never a way of telling how a live discussion will go! You argued your case very compellingly nevertheless
2h Aaron BBC Journo Aaron BBC Journo @jetsetjournoBBC
@polblonde Thanks for coming on tonight Joan – it was a great & lively debate!
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:12 am
Chris2 and others, if you find informative and well referenced articles like the one above, do link to them. It has numerous benefits. It enables people to pass the information on, complete with the links that form its evidence, and linking helps move the linked articles up in the search engine rankings.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:15 am
Oh, please do sling that mud, the bigger the stink, the better. Assange can only be rendered in secret. If the US government shows its hand with a formal extradition request, non-refoulement stops the process cold. States may not rely on diplomatic assurances from a state like the USA that tortures. Proof of official impunity for torture comes back to bite the US in the ass, resulting in international disgrace that might even penetrate the thick skulls of the US population. Check and mate.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:23 am
It just goes to show how far the BBC has sunk and/or how they take their viewers for idiots if their interviewers feel the need to suppress information that the whole world already knows.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:35 am
Common argument: “Assange has not been charged, and is only wanted for questioning”
Me on 20th 11:55 PM above: “apparently the Swedish system works in a different way than we’re used to, and suspects can’t be charged until they’ve been taken into custody, which is what the (second) Swedish prosecutor wants Assange in Sweden for.”
(Link originally posted above by Amk, 20 Aug 6:30 pm.)
I do not agree much with the article, but I have also read elsewhere that legal procedure in Sweden involves arrest before charging, and it’s important to engage with the facts rather than falsehoods. If other readers know this area of Swedish procedures, please comment.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:36 am
Name quoted in full in NEW YORK TIMES as early as 25th AUG 2010 online and in print.
“….one of the two women involved, Anna Ardin, 31, has told the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet….”
FROM CRAIG many thanks will use this
They blocked you and intervened to do two things:-
1. Through you off your train of thought; and
2. Set up Aunt Sallys that you were not permitted time to knock down ( which you want to do)
It is your personality – you are a gentleman. Now – ‘ol George Galloway would have been in his element.
Anyway – as one commnetator said:-
” Essler is a pig. I love the way he and the witch sitting next to Craig got all uppity when Craig mentioned Anna Ardin’s name which is known to everyone. Craig, I admire your dignity but that was the time you should have lost your temper. You broke no laws and Essler’s behaviour was typical of the BBC mafia that think THEY are the story, not the interviewee.”
And if Murray said “AA” or even ‘A” then he would still have been chided for giving too much of a hint about what half the world already knows. Feigned indignation that only works for minds that are not in the debate game.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:39 am
It was a poor performance, it is as well to confront that; you spoke powerfully and rivetingly outside the Embassy and that was a triumph, but you never really got off the launch pad in this exchange; gave Esler a cue to disrupt you when you began to ennumerate points about to be made, using your fingers, before managing to get only a few words out, you shouldn’t have been so diplomatic . As a longtime ‘Washington correspondent’ Esler is deeply embedded in the whole heinous UK-US-Israeli can-of-worms. That Newsnight has sunk to sewer levels I took for granted but by making a rare effort to watch it tonight, I confirmed that the BBC cannot any longer carry off even a superficial appearance of impartiality or honest enquiry.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:41 am
Sorry – not “Through you off your train of thought” – but “throw” you off which I surely don’t want to do.
fyi I have just sent you an email re http://www.tcij.org/whistleblowers
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:54 am
@Jonangus Mackay – take my wife…
21 Aug, 2012 - 3:42 am
Flattered but aghast. And not just because Once a Calvinist, always a Calvinist.
Don’t know Carl Rove, by any chance?
Wife isn’t perhaps . . . Swedish?
21 Aug, 2012 - 3:54 am
@Jonangus Mackay – ny mother in law then??
21 Aug, 2012 - 4:38 am
An old but relevant link:
21 Aug, 2012 - 6:30 am
V. good. But enough already of this outrageous politically incorrect banter: I’m training for the priesthood. No wives, no mothers-in-law, no packed lunch boxes.
21 Aug, 2012 - 8:56 am
Might be worthwhile reminding Aaronovitch of his meteoric rise to Times columnistdom – this is by him:
Remarkably prescient piece IMO, and seems to have done him no lasting harm vis-a-vis Murdoch.
21 Aug, 2012 - 10:48 am
@Jon – Assume for the sake of argument that Jewish wealth did control the US. Would you then take the same position? Namely, that when the neocon Aaronowitch, given a platform by British government TV to push for Assange to extradited on spook-faked sex charges, supports his presentation by painting Sweden as a land of honesty and fairness and decency, an opponent should avoid saying Sweden is owned by one family, despite that being true, because Aaronowitch could say in response that that’s just like going on about the power of Jewish wealth?
(Please correct me if I have misrepresented your position, because I’m not trying to do so!)
21 Aug, 2012 - 11:19 am
Hi Bert, thanks.
I think I would take the same position. The problem with such theories is they are over-simplistic and difficult to prove, and tend towards the evil-lair theory I mentioned earlier. In the case of Jewish wealth: although I am a frequent critic of Israel, I do think positions that sound racist (it’s all the fault of race/nationality X) do need to be handled carefully, especially with Jewish history being as it is*.
Regarding what one should say, or not say, in a media interview. I’ve never been interviewed, but I expect I would be terrible at it! as there seem to be many traps for the unwary. Nevertheless I think I have a feeling for what “plays well” (without getting too much into public relations territory!) when watching others. I’d recommend not engaging in theories that are (a) too detailed, as there is often insufficient time to go through the necessary points (b) difficult to prove, or (c) opens oneself out to fresh charges (such as racism).
* There are two recent defining atrocities have shaped our view of race: the Holocaust and slavery. In each case, there is a body of justified victimhood carried by Jewish and Black people respectively, which has undoubtedly in itself caused tensions. Each has been abused both ways – both as a catalyst for further racism, and also as a get-out-jail-free card for the minority group. The consciousness of these events is passed as a “meme” through generations, and it will take a great deal of work – and time I think – for those wounds to heal.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:14 pm
I cannot accept Holocaust with a capital “H”. For me it is the Jewish holocaust. There have been others like the Armenian holocaust.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:36 pm
@VivaEcuador – a fair point, that there have been others. Perhaps it is unfair that when we say the Holocaust, we generally mean the one from WWII, which was predominantly (though not exclusively) Jewish. We should not forget that people were exterminated on the basis of other ethnicities, sexualities and disabilities.
I am not intending specifically to prioritise one atrocity over another btw – they are/were all terrible.
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:49 pm
Agreed and that is the point I wanted to make. I cannot accept the primacy of Jewish suffering over the suffering of other holocaust victims. Sadly I have been accused of being an anti-semite (another meaningless term) and “H”olocaust denier for saying this. It seems to me that the Holocaust is to Catholicism what the holocaust is to catholicism. Their is a certain quasi-religious treatment of the Jewish holocaust that prevents many of our politicians from condemning repeated Israeli human rights violations and aggression. That is why I say out with the “H” and in with the “h”!!
Back to Assange….
21 Aug, 2012 - 2:51 pm
PS. My posts appeared on Charles Crawford’s blog.
Steve de Dalus
21 Aug, 2012 - 9:42 pm
== There are two recent defining atrocities have shaped our view of race: the Holocaust and slavery. In each case, there is a body of justified victimhood carried by Jewish and Black people respectively == Yeah, because the African slave trade was controlled by Jews, but not many people believe too much in the legendary Jewish ‘holocaust’with its human soap et al.
21 Aug, 2012 - 11:14 pm
Fedup seems kind of well meaning sometimes but immature and protaginistic at others. I think he is a borderline troll
Patronising yet full of crap. The last time you started pissing around with me, you wound up taking cover behind the Mod. now give over with your statistical analysis.
To find the agents of greater circle jerk filling the thread with “identity” politics, that is played up to cover up the empire running rampant with no regards for any and all international agreements or conventions, is the obscenity that evidently we are behoved to tolerate.
The obscenity of a legitimate nations sovereign territory is under the threat of invasion by our police force under the threatened orders of our foreign secretary in the way of arresting a guy whom disobeyed the orders of wearing a condom when he was laying the roadies of the fame in some other piss pot foreign land.
Then you fucking have the temerity of calling me a troll?
22 Aug, 2012 - 1:46 am
@Steve de Dalus – I am not sure I understand your response at all. Do you believe the Holocaust during WWII did not take place – I notice you put it in quotes? I am quite sure the historical record is certain on its having happened, and I don’t think anything is gained by imagining it did not. Also, what is “human soap”?
@Fedup – calm down. Why are you so jumpy? If someone has a go, just ignore it.
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