Tom Fingar Wins Sam Adams Award

by craig on January 14, 2013 11:36 am in Uncategorized

The following press release is from the Oxford Union:

The Oxford Union will be hosting the Sam Adams Associates for Integrity in Intelligence award presentation on 23 January 2013. The ceremony will feature several individuals well known in intelligence and related fields, including, via video-stream, remarks by Julian Assange, winner of the Sam Adams award in 2010.

The annual award presentation provides a rare occasion for accolades to “whistleblowers” — conscience-driven women and men willing to take risks to honor the public’s need to know.

This year’s Sam Adams recipient is Professor Thomas Fingar, who is now teaching at Stanford University. Dr. Fingar served from 2005 to 2008 as Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Analysis and Chairman of the National Intelligence Council.

In that role, Dr. Fingar oversaw preparation of the landmark 2007 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran, in which all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies concluded with “high confidence” that Iran had halted its nuclear weapon design and weaponization work in 2003. The Estimate’s key judgments were declassified and made public, and have been revalidated every year since.

Those pressing for an attack on Iran in 2008 found themselves fighting uphill. This time, thanks largely to Dr. Fingar and the professional intelligence analysts he led in 2007, intelligence analysis on Iran was fearlessly honest. A consummate intelligence professional, Fingar would not allow the NIE to be “fixed around the policy,” the damning phrase used in the famous “Downing St. Memo” of July 23, 2002 to describe the unconscionable process that served up fraudulent intelligence to “justify” war with Iraq.

We are delighted to be welcoming several previous Sam Adams awardees, including Coleen Rowley, Katharine Gun, Craig Murray, Thomas Drake, and Julian Assange (by video-stream) — as well as other Sam Adams associates from both sides of the Atlantic, including Ray McGovern, Brady Kiesling, Davdi McMichael, Elizabeth Murray, Todd Pierce and Ann Wright.

We feel that the Oxford Union, dedicated to upholding freedom of speech and providing a platform for all points of view, is a fitting venue. The traditional acceptance speech by Dr. Fingar will be followed by briefer remarks by a few previous Sam Adams awardees. They will be followed by Julian Assange who will speak for 20 minutes immediately before the Q&A, during which the audience will be invited to put questions on any topic to any of the presenters.

Assange is clearly a figure who generates controversy for reasons ranging from the allegations made against him in Sweden, to the perceived recklessness of some WikiLeaks activities. We would therefore encourage those who disagree with him, or with any of our other speakers, to participate in the Q&A session.

Last but not least, we are happy to note that Dr. Fingar, will be with us for the entire term. Professor Fingar has just begun teaching a course at the University of Oxford on global trends and transnational issues, as part of Stanford’s Bing Overseas Studies Program. He will also give guest lectures and public talks while here at Oxford (January-March 2013).

Professor Fingar holds a PhD in political science from Stanford. His most recent book is Reducing Uncertainty: Intelligence Analysis and National Security (Stanford University Press, 2011).

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242 Comments

  1. Aaron Swartz should be mentioned for his attempt to free up JSTOR and his hounding which resulted in a tragic young life being lost!

  2. A better excuse for a jolly would be hard to find. Congrats to Dr Fingar – bravo!

  3. Thanks for the notification, Craig. If I’m in Oxford that day, I’ll call in to cheer you on.

  4. Truthout article that ties together all the disparate threads regarding the CIA cocaine smuggling plot against Ecuador’s president Correa which, of course, we all first heard about here in Craig’s blog. Craig gets mentioned quite a lot in this. There’s also a VERY intriguing parallel between Swedish accuser Anna Ardin’s association with CIA-backed activity in Cuba and those of the woman accusing Chilean whistleblower Patricio Merybell in the Chile/Ecuador subplot; the recent extraordinary rendition of UK and Swedish citizens to the US from Djbouti; and the rape smears/attempted extradition of Julian Assange – all covered here.

    A Tale of Cocaine-trafficking, Sex crime charges, Extraordinary rendition and Julian Assange:

    http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/a-tale-of-cocaine-trafficking-sex-crime-charges-extraordinary-rendition-julian-assange/

    Also details Craig’s and other whistleblowers’ stories of similar sex crime smears, and Craig’s speech outside the Ecuadorian embassy back in the summer. Recommended reading.

    And here’s an update from Sweden on the Djbouti rendition story, courtesy of Rixstep. It’s starting to get a LOT of attention in the Swedish MSM. (It’s almost like journos there don’t dare touch on the Assange case, but they are starting to cover this one properly, so the parallels are becoming clear.) Swedish intelligence was following the two Swedish guys for four years but promptly closed their investigation (and therefore any reason to bring them back to Sweden) as soon as the US request came in. Ditto the timing of the UK’s stripping of citizenship from the third suspect looks a bit suspicious:

    http://rixstep.com/1/20130112,00.shtml

    Cage Prisoners also tweeted this link last night, along with the message “Does the #extradition of Swedish national M.Yusuf to US set a dangerous precedent for #julianAssange?”.

    European terrorism suspects secretly held in New York under false names:

    http://www.cageprisoners.com/learn-more/news/item/5758-european-terrorism-suspects-secretly-held-in-new-york-under-false-names

  5. A particularly stirring and moving appreciation Craig; I too look forward to a fearless Thomas Fingar esp his thoughts on global trends, notably his reasoning and interpretation of the bilateral relationship between China and the United States.

  6. The case of Tony Farrell, chief intelligence analyst for S. York-shire police force for 12 years, is not as well known as it should be in whistleblowing circles.

    He was asked in 2010 to prepare a terrorist threat assessment for that force. As a result of research he had done into 9/11 and then 7/7, he found himself in the uncomfortable position of having to tell his bosses that Western intelligence services were the biggest threat. They claimed he was having mental problems but psychiatrists gave him a clean bill of health. He was asked 3 times to rewrite his report, despite the chief Constable admitting to him that he might very well be correct in his assessment. When he refused, he was sacked for holding beliefs incompatible with his job.

    http://newsworldwide.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/top-police-intelligence-analyst-challenges-the-govt-77-narrative/

  7. Will the learned Prof Fingar address global usury and global pan-Zionism? Let’s hope so.

  8. The United States in its union with Israel has embroiled itself in labyrinthine conflicts that have constrained the country’s economic growth. Together with the sub-prime debt critical situation it turned into a financial crisis affecting the globe.

    High sovereign debt, a weak economic recovery, and high unemploymeny has forced America to rethink it’s role in Asia especially as China’s GDP has now reached $7.3 trillion, accounting for 48% of US GDP, and ranked second in the world. Given China’s territory, population and economic size, this development is unprecedented in recent history.

    American’s sense of being “threatened” has become acute. A public opinion poll conducted by the Pew Research Center showed that 49% of Americans polled supported a tougher attitude towards China than a stronger relationship with China (42%), explaining why in the US election last year both candidates were relying on tough China rhetoric.

    The world does not trust an aggressive and deceptive America that relies on a ‘scout party’ of drones and CIA mercenaries funded by drug running to smash countries deemed a threat to Israel and world dominance. That path leads nowhere. Today attempts to involve West Africa in the North is another ‘war on terror’ plan which in my opinion will disrupt China-Africa ties that have matured over the past decade, substantially altering the make-up of Africa’s political and economic milieu.

    Africa’s importance to China has increased, accounting for 3.8% of China’s exports, from 2% in 2002. African imports from China expanded by 23,7% last year to $73bn.

    President Jacob Zuma and Chinese President Hu Jintao at a bilateral meeting on the sidelines of the nuclear security summit that took place in Seoul both agreed that BRIC emerging economies “form an important part of common development of the world, which is conducive to a more balanced world economy, more reasonable international relations, more effective global governance and more durable world peace.”

    I hope the Oxford Union platform will open a new juncture for improved relations with China and her friends Russia and Iran. The threat of nuclear confrontation is more than the wave of a red flag – it is the final collapse of mother earth.

  9. Thank-you A Node an interesting read.

  10. Now Obama has announced that he is going to support the French in Mali. The escalation in yet another war has been rapid.

  11. Glenn Greenwald on Mali. This predates the American announcement.

    The bombing of Mali highlights all the lessons of western intervention

    The west African nation becomes the eighth country in the last four years alone where Muslims are killed by the west

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/14/mali-france-bombing-intervention-libya

  12. “The case of Tony Farrell, chief intelligence analyst for S. York-shire police force for 12 years, is not as well known as it should be ”

    The question isn’t why was he sacked but how anyone so naive and gullible got the job in the first place.

    Of course there may be something else at play here; maybe he has a book to sell.

  13. This is not exactly on-topic, but people must’ve noticed that the second Al Hilli thread is continuing and is now well beyond 11,000 posts (and that thread followed-on from another on the same subject which extended to 8,000 posts). This is a fascinating and exciting phenomenon which, as far as I am aware, has not happened before on this blog.

    It has become a loculated entity, a pulsating blog-within-a-blog, a insistent, low-pitched thrum of huddled voices, almost an instrumental drone. Few of the commentators who regularly contribute there also post in other areas of the site. One of the previous commentators on those ‘Al Hilli’ threads has even died since it began.

    It has developed the cyber-dimensionality of the blog along a sort of spatial, somewhat geopoetic axis. There have been many other posts about equally controversial subjects and yet they have not resulted in that type of ‘Alice in Wonderland’ elongation – so, why this one? Interesting, blogologically-speaking. Schlobalob… Be.

  14. Why is it naive and gullible to assert that a rapacious war mongering military industrial complex is a greater threat than the usual bogeymen trotted out by media?

    Is it because it isn’t true or just that he should have kept quiet about the truth?

  15. In a war David, any war, people are sacrificed to save the many. It is a military doctrine and I have detailed that axiom here with facts from David Hart Dyke, captain of HMS Coventry recalling the fatal attack during the Falklands war.

    Just like the folks on that ship we, the people, are pawns, sacrificial lambs and victims in another war, a global war on terror. We too can be sacrificed, lost to an arcane contempt for life from bellicose dark actors commanded by the unknown faces of world sovereignty, dominion and financial supremacy.

  16. Mark

    I’m not sure this chap was sacrificed to save the many. He was sacked because he wasn’t following the global elite’s script. IOW he spoke the truth.

    I agree that ordnance will often be sacrificed to protect what is considered more vital, but I don’t accept that civilians will be sacificed to protect the many. It’s more common that they’ll be sacrificed to protect the few!

    Anyway, here’s Pilger’s long interview with Assange:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9A26WOvkMzo#!

  17. In early use, the word “naive” meant natural or innocent, and did not connote ineptitude. (Wiki)

    I like that colour of naive.

    BTW, Suhayl what does Schlobalob mean? I tried googling the word but it bowled me a googly.

  18. Villager (at 10:56pm on 14.1.13), yes, as in the style known as ‘Naive Painting’.

    “Schlobalob” comes from the original 1960s BBC children’s TV series, ‘Bill and Ben, Flowerpot Men’. The two flowerpot men used to say the nonsense word repeatedly, it was their monicker. The new versions don’t seem to say it and there’s no helium-inhaled “Wee-eed” either. It was a word-play on “blogalogically-speaking”, which itself was a sort of composite neologism from ‘psychologically-speaking’ and ‘blog’. Blogalog, schlobalob…

    Brings back memories of ‘Clockwork Orange’.

  19. A Node:

    “The case of Tony Farrell, chief intelligence analyst for S. York-shire police force for 12 years, is not as well known as it should be ”

    Kempe:

    “The question isn’t why was he sacked but how anyone so naive and gullible got the job in the first place.
    Of course there may be something else at play here; maybe he has a book to sell.”

    My question is “Why did you say that, Kempe?” You made two points and both are provably stupid.

    (1) “how [did] anyone so naive and gullible got the job in the first place.” Please list your qualifications to call him that. He was head of intelligence analysis for 12 years and you, you, … er … well you tell me.
    (2) “maybe he has a book to sell.” He hasn’t. All you had to do was put {Tony Farrell + book} into Google and you wouldn’t have made yourself look stupid.

    In the last thread you smeared Sizer but couldn’t back it up when your ‘evidence’ was questioned. If you can’t support your book smear of Tony Farrell with real evidence, I won’t be the only one here who concludes that your purpose here is sinister.

  20. Surely, a genuine whistleblower has to produce new information – or at least some actual evidence to support confirmation of suspicions.

    From what I’ve read over the web so far – I accept that I may have missed something, big or small – in the case of Mr Farrell, he seems to have done neither, but simply seems to have reproduced material from a variety of other people’s sites. As Principal Intellligence Officer, one would have thought that he would be privy to whatever subterfuges the nexus of the Police/MI5 get up to. There has got to be a lot of such info. on which someone in his position as a whistleblower would have been able to blow the whistle. Yet where is this information, where are these revelations – information and revelations that might lend at least some credibility to what he, and others, are alleging?

    I think that we need to have a high threshold of skepticism for this kind of thing. It would be a good way of discrediting lots of oppositional figures, a sort of honey-trap of the mind, for a figure to emerge and then later make all of those who supported him seem mad, gullible, or both. So in the end, it would discredit alternative hypotheses and discredit future real whistleblowers too. But perhaps I have become too cynical.

  21. So, it’s qualitatively different from, say, Craig Murray, who, when he makes an assertion, generally provides the evidence to back it up (eg. over Fox-Werrity) and who admits when he’s got it wrong (eg. Steel). Craig has a scientific approach, in other words. It is not sufficient simply to say, “I believe…” for people to believe one. I don’t see any of that from Mr Farrell. Instead, I see material about Freemasons and all the usual stock characters of those who, it seems to me, seek to conflate genuine crime – war-crimes, black sites, torture, kidnapping, wars of aggression, the arms industry, etc. – with such tropes. Look, we know the international banking system is screwing most of the world’s population, we know the arms industry is killing millions of people and making a killing and we know that the MIC has acquired immensely dispropotionate – not absolute – power within the US decision-making process. The USA/NATO/WTO/IMF behaves an a set of imperial entities. None of this is news to many of us. But to bring in Satanism and so on, as Mr Farrell seems to be doing, only serves to debunk serious political analysis and oppositional organising. It’s like Icke et al. I am deeply suspicious.

  22. Suhayl

    He doesn’t have to be a whistleblower. His sacking and the facts surrounding it are interesting in and of themselves. He’d asked for more time to investigate the Intel services to see what threat they posed to the people of South Yorkshire but was unable to complete his investigation because he was suspended.

    But I agree that one has to be careful of Greeks bearing gifts.

  23. Suhayl Saadi
    I take your point about whistleblowing, maybe that wasn’t the best description for him. I also take your point about the dangers of taking such people at face value. There are indeed traps laid for the unwary.

    However, in the end, each of us have to weigh the clues and make a judgement. I’ve twice watched Tony Farrell in long interviews, the kind that our sound-bite media don’t do any more. I believe he is genuine. I don’t believe he could act so well and so consistently. However, I appreciate that’s a subjective opinion and won’t help you make your mind up.

    Incidentaly, did anyone else here used to watch Edge Media, channel 200, in particular the On The Edge programme. Every Thursday night, 8.00 pm, a 2 hour interview with someone with an “alternative view”. Theo is a great interviewer and over 2 hours you could be confident that the guest had nowhere to hide. Anybody can turn up at a studio with a couple of soundbites and a smile, but that won’t get you through 2 hours. I’d love to see Cameron try it.

  24. David, thanks for Pilger’s interview with Assange. Am surprised that it has such few (88,000) views.

    Arbed, i’m watching it now. I intuit that the main wikileaks imperatives of justice and transparency need to be got more out there again. I know you’re doing your bit.

    Lets hope there isn’t a Women’s Campaign here to block him from speaking.How silly they were in Cambridge.

  25. Hi Suhayl – have you been buried in the Al-Hilli thread? I know your penchant for the intriguing.

    Al-Hilli had sound nuclear knowledge gained from the “Osiris”-class nuclear reactor from France and supplied to Iraq. He worked at the Rutherford Appleton research centre in the 1980s. I believe he was quietly helping Iran overcome some technical difficulties in their nuclear program particularly metal erosion and for that his card was marked. The RAF guy recorded the deed by a motor-cyclist in black (remember Iran’s scientists…) . Simple but very sad. Love to Saad’s two surviving daughters.

  26. Hi Villager, unfortunately there is a protest planned against Assange speaking at the Oxford Union. The usual sorry mixture of presumed-guilt and woeful ignorance of the facts of the case:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/09/julian-assange-speak-oxford-university-protests_n_2440339.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

    Backed to the hilt, of course, by the Guardian:

    https://twitter.com/santaevita/status/289082517594710016

    (note: this woman’s twitter account was set up literally one day before this tweet, so seemingly specifically for this protest. Talk about jumping on bandwagons…)

    She refuses to look at any ‘source’ about the case other than David Allen Green’s Legal Myths article in the New Statesman, despite having now been warned that it contained serious factual errors and was later (partially) corrected by Glenn Greenwald, here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/24/new-statesman-error-assange-swedish-extradition

    Never mind… what can you do with people like this? As the protest is planned for both Oxford and outside the Ecuadorian embassy, a counter-protest is also planned (a dignified silent vigil). Here’s a factsheet that’s been produced to give out at the counter-protest if anyone fancies shuffling down to Hans Crescent, SW1 on 23 January:

    http://wikileaksetc.blogspot.ch/2013/01/fact-sheet-julian-assange-his-asylumand.html

  27. Thanks for the links Arbed, appreciated. I’ll speak with Clark and Mary (both dignified) who might join the counter-protest and report back here.

  28. Thanks Mark – I shall be there myself, so it will be great to meet any others from here who are going.

  29. Surely no one gets this prize from a bunch of retired CIA spooks without serving either the CIA or a CIA-affiliated agency. So what agency does Assange work for? Or CM?

  30. English Knight

    15 Jan, 2013 - 5:19 am

    A Node said “In the last thread you smeared Sizer but couldn’t back it up when your ‘evidence’ was questioned. If you can’t support your book smear of Tony Farrell with real evidence, I won’t be the only one here who concludes that your purpose here is sinister.”

    Kempe is an extremely highly cunning hasbaric sayanim who needs to be bid sayonara from this blog, mebbe Craig tolerates his now crass attempts at fooling us dumb goyim, as eye-openers on how the devil of spin operates!

    Witness this post (or words thereabout)in the al-Hilli Blog ” mebbe al-hilli was targeted due to his over active anti-israel blog posting activity” Meaning anti-israel blog posters beware mossad will get ua ass too!

  31. Good morning all and thank you for your kind comments.

    Mr Farrell appears to have fallen for one of several conspiracy theories surrounding 7/7 and 9/11. Despite what some of you might think this is as far from the truth as anybody is likely to get. I’m sure the good people in South Yorkshire will now sleep easier in their beds knowing he no longer has any responsibility for their safety.

    “Truthers” have to explain why he wasn’t disappeared or stiched up with kiddie porn on his work laptop before he had a chance to go public.

    I wonder, was he trying to work an early discharge on medical grounds?

  32. I have just checked to see what Obama is doing about Mali. I began to think I had imagined the breaking news I reported seeing yesterday that he was going in to assist the ‘operation’. There is nothing on the BBC (strange?) but the LA Times and VoA both report it.

    U.S. moves to bolster French military campaign in Mali
    The U.S. is preparing to ferry more French troops to Mali and provide other help. The fight against Al Qaeda affiliates gained urgency given the rebel advances.http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-terror-mali-20130115,0,4876209.story

    US Prepares to Help France in Mali – With Caution
    Voice of America ‎- 6 hours ago
    The U.S. aim is to go after al-Qaida-linked militants in Africa. … The French intervention has come at the request of Mali’s interim leaders.

    Nothing much coming from the boy wonder in King William Street. He is being given a hard time on this twitter! https://twitter.com/WilliamJHague/status/290400232980750338

    He had said on his own feed:

    13 JanWilliam Hague‏@WilliamJHague
    Risk in #Mali is of a terrorist haven developing on Europe’s doorstep

    13 JanWilliam Hague‏@WilliamJHague
    The UK is providing logistical military assistance to help transport troops and equipment to #Mali quickly

    He has pushed off out of it to New Zealand. Probably fancied a bit of sun.

  33. The war for natural resources including uranium. and oil too according to this.

    West busy with ethnic cleansing in Mali: Moeen Raoof
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMKZWDi3mL8

    and

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/mali-s-tuareg-uranium-conspiracy/30118

  34. I wonder how much of what James Casbolt asserts corresponds with what Tony Farrell is saying;

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=6162

    In the absence of not being able to refute nor prove what either of these two are saying, we are left none the wiser.

  35. Again, let me thank you for the links Arbed. That David Allen Green is a nasty piece of work. From Birmingham too. Green does not answer questions regarding his manufacture of information. There was a time when the New Stateman was a worthy publication.

  36. “In early use, the word “naive” meant natural or innocent, and did not connote ineptitude. (Wiki)

    I like that colour of naive.

    BTW, Suhayl what does Schlobalob mean? I tried googling the word but it bowled me a googly.”

    Oh aren’t you the clever one, I bet your daddy’s really proud of you, does he know you’re playing with his computer?

  37. “In the absence of not being able to refute nor prove what either of these two are saying, we are left none the wiser.”

    Which for you is a crying shame.

  38. O/T Do not buy any gift vouchers from retailers.

    Jessops were said to have £850,000 worth in circulation which the administrators would not honour.

    Now the same applies to HMV.
    ‘The firm said it would not be accepting gift vouchers or issuing any more.’ BBC website

    I bet the figure is way higher than Jessops. So soon after Christmas, many vouchers would have been given as presents.

    Yet another rip off in rip off Britain.

  39. Arbed, thanks for that. And there we go again, but thankfully here’s the current view from the poll at the huff post

    Quick Poll
    Should Julian Assange’s appearance at Oxford go ahead?
    Yes 62.18%
    No 34.14%
    Not sure 3.68%

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/09/julian-assange-speak-oxford-university-protests_n_2440339.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

  40. Also O/T
    For those who were wondering about Mali, run, don’t walk to your stockbroker*

    http://www.africacncl.org/Events/downloads/Mr.%20Mamadou%20Simpara,%20General%20Director,%20AUREP.pdf

    Wiki on the Tuareg Rebellion is worth a glance, too. Most of the oil claims are in the “rebel”-held South.

    And “Another commentator described the US as a catalyst for the rebellion, citing the training of Tuareg rebels by the U.S. (to fight Gaddafi -K) and the overthrow of Libya’s government in 2011.”

    The Law of Unintended Consequences again…

    *or your arms dealer

  41. The SOAS’ Jeremy Keenan is the man to read on Mali.

    Informative article here: http://www.opendemocracy.net/jeremy-h-keenan/algerian-state-terrorism-and-atrocities-in-northern-mali

    Also recommend his book, The Dark Sahara: America’s War on Terror in Africa.

  42. Ps, the Captcha reckons 9-1 does not equal 8.

  43. Arbed/Mark

    I might join the counter-protest on the 23rd–what time is it slated for? Any ideas as to how we might recognise each other and actually meet? I know at the last time Clark was there with a placard but despite that people missed each other.

    Also, does anyone know if there is live streaming planned for the Oxford mtg and Assange’s address etc.?

  44. Giles i’ve noted that if you leave it blank in error and have to return to the screen, it doesn’t accept any answer, even a correct one. Then requires refreshing–perhaps thats a technical glitch that can be fixed?

  45. Thanks Villager. Yes, that’s what I did – must be a glitch.

  46. “Any ideas as to how we might recognise each other and actually meet?”

    Yes you’ll need someone to hold your hand while you cross the road.

  47. Less of your puerile sarcasm Fred. Are you sure you are on the right blog?

  48. You’re very welcome, Giles

  49. “That David Allen Green is a nasty piece of work. ”

    Green was involved with the Simon Singh case and the Twitter Joke appeal. He’s probably done more to protect your freedom of expression than Julian Assange ever will.

  50. “Green was involved with the Simon Singh case and the Twitter Joke appeal. He’s probably done more to protect your freedom of expression than Julian Assange ever will.”

    In those days he was but a humble blogger. I even remember him writing something quite incisive about the emergent police state.

    These days of course he dines at corporate high table.

    Assange provides an insight into things that governments would prefer hidden. It’s not unreasonable to ask why so many so-called journalists seem to be against that.

  51. Kempe
    So in your opinion, David Allen Green is a good guy and Sizer and Farrell are bad guys.
    Hmmmmm. Yessss.

  52. Investigative journalism and even citizen reporting is a corrupt State’s greatest fear. People like John Schindler, John Pilger and citizens Bridget and Ant(July 7th) all dig for the truth. These people are special, they are ‘conspiracy realists’ with probing minds.

    Governments are suffocating investigative journalism at an alarming rate through the abuse of Acts like the arcane Official Secrets Act, D-Notices, the Espionage Act of 1917 and more; acts more prone to be used to protect government secrecy than national security. These Acts has been used numerous times to go after whistleblowers and the journalists who protect and reveal their information.

    http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/

    Hats off to your intention and dedication.

  53. Villager, 11.20am

    The Oxford Union gives the start time of the event as 19.30 so I imagine the protests/counterprotests will be around then. Personally, I think I’ll go down to the embassy much earlier in the afternoon. Someone has printed 1,000 flyers of that factsheet I’ve linked above so I’ll help with giving those out to passersby, Harrods shoppers, etc, etc… :)

    “Any ideas as to how we might recognise each other and actually meet? I know at the last time Clark was there with a placard but despite that people missed each other”

    John Goss and I have met face-to-face – don’t know if that helps/whether he’s going/if you know him…

    Clark: if you’re thinking of attending, I know I missed you last time but you’ve got my email address – drop me a line so we can swap mobile numbers this time.

  54. “Less of your puerile sarcasm Fred. Are you sure you are on the right blog?”

    When in Rome Mary, when in Rome.

  55. 10 Reasons to Cancel Your TV Licence:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=5YGzqJf8yQI#!

  56. @JohnGoss, 9.03am

    “That David Allen Green is a nasty piece of work”

    David Allen Green knows his original article got it wrong and he can no longer justify it, but instead of either correcting it or being prepared to stand behind it, he just washes his hands and walks away:

    https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen/status/289035686764507136

    Coward!

    Justice4Assange put out a statement directly addressed to the Oxford LGTB (is that the correct acronym? Can’t be bothered to look it up properly) campaigner who’s taken it upon herself to organise the protest against Assange speaking at an awards ceremony dedicated to whistleblowers:

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/kltfq2

    That’s quite a ticking-off – Justice4Assange is usually very measured in its statements. They must be furious about this woman’s wilful idiocy.

  57. I suspect that far from getting it wrong Green is simply fed up with trying to convince people who need to believe in the legal myths that they’re wrong.

    Whatever their motivation Oxford’s LGTB community are simply exercising their right to protest just the same as Assange’s supporters are. What right or authority has Justice4Assange to issue a “ticking off”? (That link doesn’t open by the way)

    It ought to be pointed out that Assange is not the whistleblower, Bradley Manning is the whistelblower, Assange is only the publisher. It’s also telling that anybody is even contemplating an anti-Assange rally, such a thing would’ve been inconceivable two years ago.

  58. If the Guardian had reported the truth, we would probably still be supporting them snd thus they and other newspapers would not be hitting the deck.

    ‘Why the Guardian is launching a digital edition in Australia

    The launch of the Guardian‘s digital edition in Australia is a milestone in the development of our global ambitions. It also illustrates the opportunities and challenges facing a newspaper industry that is undergoing a period of dramatic upheaval, brought about by rapid technological change, exacerbated by the current difficult macro-economic environment.

    In the last ten years, the Guardian has moved from being the ninth most read newspaper in Great Britain to an online presence that makes it the third most read newspaper website in the world. Over the same period, print circulation has declined inexorably and, with it, print advertising revenues; this trend will continue.

    At Guardian News & Media, we have a tradition of leading the way in digital. Our ‘open’ approach to journalism, which seeks to engage our readers in a much more collaborative relationship than traditional print journalism is able to do, is hugely popular with forward-looking individuals who are curious about the world and embrace technological change. This progressive audience leaves the Guardian particularly well-placed to develop its global reach; it is also very attractive to advertisers.

    However, the real challenge is to find a business model that supports the transition from print to digital – and the reality is that no one has yet been able to do this, not least because we are all still working hard to define exactly what a newspaper actually is in the digital age.’

    /…

    http://www.economistgroup.com/leanback/new-business-models/why-the-guardian-is-launching-a-digital-edition-in-australia/

  59. Goldman Sachs have had a twinge of conscience, or perhaps they were shamed into it. The payment of £9 billion !!! in bonuses will not now be deferred to avoid the higher tax rate.

    Westminster hits at Goldman Sachs bonus plan

    Goldman Sachs provoked a furious reaction in Westminster after it emerged that the US investment bank was considering a plan to delay its UK bonus payments to take advantage of April’s cut to the top rate of tax.

    /..
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/001a3fda-5e7a-11e2-a771-00144feab49a.html#axzz2I3nYq0QG

  60. Arbed:- I couldn’t open your link to Justice4Assange but was it actually their “tweet” or that of Julian’s mother?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/14/julian-assange-mother-christine-feminist-rant-oxford-uni-protest_n_2470926.html

    Some of you might be interested in Tom Fingar’s opinion at the bottom of the article.

  61. Kempe, no it was this one, which opens for me.

    ” Simone Webb ‏@santaevita

    I wish I could hire @DavidAllenGreen to just…explain Assange stuff to people on facebook. *sighs*
    Details

    David David ‏@DavidAllenGreen

    @santaevita I have served my turn in the Assange wars. Happy now to leave it to others. All power to you :-)

    Reply
    Retweet
    Favorite

    1 Favorite
    Ackamarackus

    7:47 AM – 9 Jan 13 ·
    Tweet text Reply to @DavidAllenGreen @santaevita
    Image will appear as a link

    9 Jan Simone Webb Simone Webb ‏@santaevita

    @DavidAllenGreen I’m spending quite a lot of time on facebook linking people to your articles on Assange.
    Details
    9 Jan Simone Webb Simone Webb ‏@santaevita

    @DavidAllenGreen and saying “for god’s sake, READ THIS BEFORE YOU EXPRESS AN OPINION”.
    Details ”

    You see, he does not want Jan Simone Webb keep spreading his misinformation knowing it to be wrong. Perhaps he would be happy if you stopped bigging him up too! He does not answer uncomfortable tweets!

    The other link.

    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/kltfq2

    content

    “You were quoted in an article published in an anti-Wikileaks British paper penned by fellow Oxford PPE student @AlexJ_Rankine

    You state in your facebook event that “Assange is refusing to face the Swedish legal system with respect to rape allegations”. This is false. You show a complete disregard for the presumption of innocence or the fair trial rights of a persecuted journalist, a recognised political refugee.

    It is admitted in the United Kingdom Supreme Court by the prosecution that neither of the women intended to file a complaint against Mr. Assange. Neither woman has ever alleged rape. In the official police documentation, Woman B states that she was “railroaded” by police and others around her to make a statement, which she refused to sign. There are not two allegations of rape, but one allegation by the Swedish state of what Swedish law calls ‘minor rape’. According to an analysis by a professor of English law at Oxford University, Prof. Andrew Ashworth, the conduct described in the allegations would not be criminal in the United Kingdom.

    Swedish lawyers who have read the police report (which clearly those supporting your campaign have not), argue that even in Sweden the conduct alleged does not constitute a crime. A fact that senior prosecutor Eva Finne relied on when she dropped the ‘rape’ investigation, before it was resurrected by a prosecutor who is close to the women’s politician-lawyer, Borgstrom.

    Mr. Assange has be granted asylum because he is the subject of a political persecution. The Ecuadorian Government has found that his fears of persecution and torture are justified and that Sweden will not protect him from persecution by the United States. Amnesty International has made a statement calling on Sweden to guarantee that Mr. Assange will not be sent to a political persecution designed to silence whistleblowing and undermining freedom of the press in the West.

    Mr. Assange has asked to give his side of the story for two years. It is the Swedish prosecutor who is fleeing Mr. Assange’s cooperation. The prosecutor refuses to abide by standard Swedish and European mechanisms which mandate the prosecutor to interview Mr. Assange in London. The prosecutor refuses to give any reasonable explanation for this refusal. The prosecutor is under a legal obligation to advance the investigation. Misinformed misinformation campaigns such as yours are not benefiting the two women. Even Swedish lawyers and media commentators are critical of the Swedish prosecutor’s untenable position, which is harming Sweden’s international reputation.

    The presumption of innocence is a basic principle of law. The abuse of process involved in this case is flagrant. Your campaign propagates smears and is imbued by ignorance to further the political aims of powerful actors. It is specially interesting that you are taking this position in connection with a speech at a whistleblower event.

    Please correct the falsehoods you have publicised. Propagating these with the knowledge that they are false is malicious and defamatory. More importantly, your position reinforces the political persecution of Mr. Assange and WikiLeaks, and actively undermines the important work that whistleblowers do to protect your civil liberties. Julian Assange has taken risks and you have an obligation to, at the very least, not mislead your audience in relation to the facts of this spurious case.

    Of course your campaign is not about women’s rights, or about the rights of these two women (whose interests you clearly have not seriously considered). This is not even about Assange.

    If I were you I would be thinking about how this will look when this investigation is dropped. I would take a long hard look at the arguments you are making against free speech in connection with a whistleblowing event. And I would think twice about actively undermining the presumption of innocence and the right to due process. That’s what your future employers will see when they search your names on the internet. But perhaps the type of employers you will be applying to will like your politics.

    http://justice4assange.com

  62. Kempe, I stick by my original statement about David Allen Green being a nasty piece of work. Because when I write something I try to base it on truth. Assange is not wanted for rape. He’s wanted for Wikileaks releases of the truth which our governments do not want in the public domain. Read this:

    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2012/12/19/how-sweden-collaborated-with-cia-on-renditions-and-framing-of-assange/

  63. Four press links from Keep Our National Health Service Public (KONP) and those from previous dates.

    http://www.keepournhspublic.com/newsroundup.php

    Tuesday 15th January 2013

    Scotsman
    Nurses’ fury at overtime wages veto.

    Guardian
    What will we tell our grandchildren about the sell-off of the NHS?

    Bromsgrove Standard
    Health group vows to protect NHS from privatisation.

    New Statesman
    The NHS: even more cherished than the monarchy and the army.

  64. Mali is in a strategically very important position. From Mali you have access to Mauretania, Algeria, Senegal, equatorial Guinea, Burkina Faso,Niger, Togo and with a little leap, to Ghana and the Sudan. Anybody who establishes military bases in Mali, trying to get established on the back of this nefarious war on terrorism, can claim to be controlling the heart of Africa.

    Mali’s manifold riches are their downfall. France, upping a spineless Hollande’s image and their own vested interest, is bolstering a flaky and unaccountable Government, by killing civilians, three kids already are dead from their assault, the same despicable tactic as is used by Israel against its Semite Palestinian neighbours.

    Brolleurs!

    For the US and Britain to offer their sickening, calamitous and murderous help, sorry gotta throw up, is the hight of self serving neo-fascist colonialism.

    Mali is the kingpin and we should expect

  65. sorry, hit the button by mistake

    ‘should expect a long and arduous campaign, not to speak of unlimited US/French contracts for military bases signed by these undemocratic putschniks.

  66. ” when I write something I try to base it on truth. ”

    I hadn’t noticed.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/five-legal-myths-about-assange-extradition

  67. Kempe, first of all you might have thanked me for posting the contents of the link you were unable to access. But I realise you have a job to do and hope they are paying you well.

    I read David Allen Green’s piece you’ve just posted months back. It was one of the pieces that made me conclude he is a legal stooge. You should have read my blog on Judge John Deed which mentions Justice Stephen Phillips who presided over the Supreme Court extradition appeal. But as you clearly did not read my co-authored piece about Sven Olof-Petersson and the legal firm in Sweden and then claimed that it was not based on truth, you are unlikely to read this either.

    http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/judge-john-deed-and-other-old-retiring.html

  68. Former colonial power France declares that French troops will remain in the former French colony of Mali until a government with legitimate authority is put in place. Reported on the MSM without any irony, smirking or sniggering. How do they do it?

  69. All that personal data is now being mined.

    Facebook takes on Google with new search engine that can scan a BILLION profiles to find everything from users’ favourite restaurants to their embarrassing photos

    Firm claims new service is ‘privacy aware’, and will only search for content that has already been shared by users

    Graph Search set to be made available to some users from today in test form

    Facebook signs up Microsoft for search results as announcement intensifies battle with Google+ service

    Firms boasts its network includes ‘a billion people, more than 240 billion photos and more than a trillion connections’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2262906/Facebook-takes-search-New-service-lets-user-search-photos-people-connections–web.html#ixzz2I4wSzBxz

    Good work Mr Zuckerberg!

  70. Kempe, first of all you might have thanked me for posting the contents of the link you were unable to access. But I realise you have a job to do and I hope they are paying you well. When you advance you will be asked to write why you criticise people’s comments. Have a word with your superior.

    I read David Allen Green’s piece you’ve just posted months back. It was one of the pieces that made me conclude he is a legal stooge. You should have read my blog on Judge John Deed which mentions Justice Stephen Phillips who presided over the Supreme Court extradition appeal. But as you clearly did not read my co-authored piece about Sven Olof-Petersson and the legal firm in Sweden prosecuting Assange, yet had the audacity to claim that a wwell-researched article was not based on truth, you are unlikely to read this either.

    http://johngossip.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/judge-john-deed-and-other-old-retiring.html

    But others will.

  71. Kempe, what of the Statesman’s journalistic endeavours of Jimmy Savilles real rapes?
    Allegations that have been batted off by the BBC, the police, child line, many victims who spoke out and where frustrated, for decades. Did allegations make any difference in this country?

    What is its fascination with J.Assange, journalistic jealousy is one explanation, but its not enough. The Statesman guilt by association in the J Saville grooming era is as much part of the cover up as those who are trying to avert focus away from the other rapist and paedophiles still walking free.

    Why are they not looking at the nations pit, the paedophiles official office, or orifice, our beloved BBC? would that be too close to home?
    Why is the Statesman, nothing new about it, why this one eyed, blind focus on the alleged crime, without looking at all the facts.

    Where are these two victims? kept incommunicado by those info-mongers the Statesman protects and helps, have they joined Adam Werritty?

    What of the incomprehensible behaviour of Ms. Nye, the Swedish police, the evidence or the lack of it. Its not acceptable to dismiss the lack of evidence and the police victim and lawyers cosiness in this trumped up case. So David Allen Green is pretending to be holier than though, he’s a bought soul who’s been told what to write.

  72. Sir Gerald Howarth no less would like the broadcast of this Tony Harrison poem banned. He does not like the Anglo Saxon within it would seem. It resonated with me and I found it rather moving.

    http://plagiarist.com/poetry/5618/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21015301

    This is Howarth. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/02/defence-minister-arms-howarth Now s Knight of the Realm.

    and the fuss http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21024372

    Radio 4 23.00 Friday 18 January 2013

  73. Mary;

    “All that personal data is now being mined.”

    Fecebook, I think as John Goss once called it!

  74. Arbed, no I don’t know John. But if Clark is coming with his placard, that could be a way. Or if he or Jon can give you my email, that would be good.

    Thanks for all the info and your perseverance.

  75. Mary, I quite like Tony Harrison, his politics in particular. I remember him reading at Birmingham University in the early eighties. I also watched the programme in which he recited V. What I found a bit monotonous was that everything he wrote was, at least up to V, in iambic pentameter. I’ve not read anything of his for years. I do hope he’s extended his range.

    Sir Gerald Howarth is the pits.

  76. Thanks Villager and John for responses. Yes Fecebook. I also see that Adobe arer pushing this tool. This ad was on one of the newspapers online today.

    http://www.adobe.com/uk/solutions/digital-marketing.html?tb=so&b1=banner&s_cid=701a0000000lOboAAE&s_iid=701a0000000lOaIAAU&sdid=KCHLD

    Social Media is Worthless
    That’s crazy.

    Find out what those “likes” and “followers” really mean for your business.
    See the solution ›

    Agree John, rather long but he obviously had many memories and thoughts to convey and aome personal stuff to deal with in this way.

  77. Clarks offline and busy with life, I’m not speaking for him but see this as a positive aspect.
    He might come to the 23 meeting, or not. I would like to make the meet as I have some admiration, steady on, for Arbed’s excellent sleuthing and work, here and in Sweden, thank you Arbed.

    But if I’m not there in person, pretend I’m with you. I think the Oxford debate is crucial for the wider understanding of the facts, a public deficit sofar.

    Those ‘connected and engaged’ students, no doubt, some already in Government pay, have to be put on the rostrum and challenged.

    Love to meet you.

  78. Fingar has just been made aware that you run a site friendly to 911 truthers and other disturbed conspiracy fanatics. Good luck with the meeting!

  79. ..Oxford union dedicated to freedom of speech…
    and teaching offspring of dictators, like uzbeki henchman karimov’s grandson who is enrolled at Brookes college now.

  80. Assange is clearly the greatest threat to humanity since time began, and to women in particular.

    He has slaughtered millions across the planet, innocent men, women and children. We’ve all seen the disgusting pictures of his deeds.

    He is obviously Public enemy No 1.

    The much lesser crimes of the US, France, Belgium, UK, Australia, Canada etc will be forgiven for they are ignorant and know not what they do.

    No one knows what they do…

  81. The OPC has released a document that is supposed to show the full extent of the Royal veto over Parliamentary Bills. Jeez! the document is spectacularly misleading about what bills, if any, the royals have actually attempted to block. Symbolic consent and then giving it are of course different.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/14/secret-papers-royals-veto-bills

    Instead of legal documents the Queens subjects get a hastily written piece of crap called a pamphlet to fob us off.

    http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/sites/default/files/resources/QC_PC_pamphlet_191212.pdf

    Clips from the Pamphlet:-

    Queen’s consent was given for the bill for the Animal Welfare Act 2006, largely because
    of the powers of inspectors to enter onto land owned by the Crown Estate and the Duchies;
    there is an exemption for land forming part of the Queen’s private estate

    Queen’s consent was needed for the Identity Cards Bills 2004-06.

    Queens consent was required for giving the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission power
    to disqualify a person who had failed to pay child support maintenance from holding a UK
    passport.

    +++++++++++++++++

    The British government will go to court against confidential letters written by Prince Charles to government ministers being made public, reflecting his intervention on legislative and other matters.

  82. English Knight

    16 Jan, 2013 - 7:29 am

    Kempe devilish downgrade spin on Assange quoted below, exclamation marks added.

    “It ought to be pointed out that Assange is not the whistleblower, Bradley Manning is the whistelblower, Assange is only (!!!!!!) the publisher. It’s also telling that anybody is even contemplating an anti-Assange rally, such a thing would’ve been inconceivable two years ago”

    Bwahahahahahaha – it ought to be pointed out I was only the cattle cart driver, it was Hitler wot done it !

    To Craig – this devil has a very low opinion of our goyim intelligence, is he a relative of “sid”? Should you be giving him a forum for such devilishly cunning hasbara crap !

  83. “Why are they not looking at the nations pit, the paedophiles official office, or orifice, our beloved BBC? would that be too close to home?”

    Indeed, then there’s William Hague. He is guilty of at least preventing the detection of a crime in relation to the Wrexham paedophile ring. A decent prosecution could go for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. And then there are the decades old ‘Westminster village’ rumours – the whole lot of them are guilty of a cover up to some degree or other.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224167/Former-Minister-says-Thatcher-aide-paedophile-preyed-boys-home–Hague-known.html

  84. What people are too stupid to work out is that people like Hague occupy the positions they do precisely because this dirt exists on them. It also sends a clear message to other politicians that they are ‘allowed’ power and influence and can never attain it through their own efforts or simple human decency. The example of Hague couldn’t be clearer – do what your told, when your told and you’ll be looked after.

    The puzzle of Hague’s political success, despite being totally detached from reality and clearly incompetent on all levels, can be easily answered by the fact that he was groomed as a very young boy by senior Tory party apparatchiks – the same ones who’s names regularly get banded about – at least the dead ones, it seems only dead people can be called paedophiles in the UK.

  85. The helicopter that has crashed in Vauxhall Circus hit a crane on a tower block building site. One report is saying that it is the site of the new American embassy. Surely helicopters and all these high rise buildings are not a good mix. I think a greater tragedy has been averted.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1038710/helicopter-crashes-into-crane-in-london

  86. The manufacturers of the horseburgers.

    A bit of a mix up in the supply chain??

    http://www.abpfoodgroup.com/about-us/our-company/

    Big this and Big that. Big Pharma. Now Big Meat.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0730/1224321086035.html

    Mo wonder people are becoming vegetarian.

  87. “it seems only dead people can be called paedophiles in the UK.”

    Yes, dead people and poor people, the others the law protects.

  88. I’ve long been a vegetarian. I was brought up on stories like this.

    During the depression of the thirties all the unemployed men stood or sat outside the pit doffing their caps to the bosses ‘Have you got a job Sir?” They were emaciated and living off whatever they could garner from an impoverished world. Most of the men, if they were lucky, sustained themselves on dripping sandwiches. Except for George. George had meat almost everyday.

    Fred asked George how his wife could afford to pack him meat sandwiches and he was advised to get his wife to talk to George’s wife. They shared the same butchers and the two women went together to do their shopping. In the butchers Fred’s wife asked for some of the much cheaper meat that George’s wife bought. The butcher brought his special meat from out of the larder. “I have to explain that it’s hoss meat”. She bought some anyway thinking Fred would not know the difference. And sure enough he didn’t.

    After a while Fred noticed that his nose and chin were getting longer and he asked his wife he she could see any difference. “Now that you mention it I can. I can.” She thought she had better explain what the meat was. Times were so hard Fred kept eating the horse-meat to keep up his strength. But his chin and nose were getting longer and longer until they almost met, and his nostrils were getting bigger, so he thought he had better visit the doctor’s.

    He explained everything to the doctor, who, as doctors sometimes do appeared not to be listening, but was taking notes all the while Fred was telling him his story. After a while the doctor peeled a sheet of paper from a pad and wrote upon it. “Is that a prescription you’re writing me there, Doctor?” “No it’s a permit to shit in the road.” Sorry about that.

    Is it really one of the reasons I don’t eat meat? No, it’s mostly on moral grounds. To my mind eating horses is no different from eating cows. Or dogs. All animals are sentient beings that feel pain when you hurt them. They have no voice in parliament. Barnes Wallis said that the reason he could not eat meat was because he could not bring himself to kill an animal and should not ask somebody else to do it on his behalf. I guess I am the same.

  89. “Yes, dead people and poor people, the others the law protects.”

    Further to this there is a very worrying attempt to change legal precedent going on at the moment which seems to have slipped below the radar.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20909851

    It has been a long established feature of UK law that only an individual is protected from defamation. Now it seems that the law may rule that Rutland council can be considered an individual and sue for defamation.

    The consequences of this could be far reaching and devastating.

  90. I respect your considered view, John. What I can’t abide is the “meat is murder” crowd and those who eat meat but cannot bear to think about how it got to their plates. The former try to impose their views on others, while the latter should face up to the reality and accept that if they cannot kill, prepare and eat an animal, then they shouldn’t be eating meat or fish.

    For myself, I avoid cheap meat, which means I eat less of it, but the animals have been reared in as good conditions as is possible, which is reflected in the quality of the meat. We ought not to take the same approach to food production as we take to manufacturing, constantly driving down costs and prices. Meat should he produced to a very high standard and the best cuts enjoyed infrequently.

    Sadly, the closure of most of the local, small-scale slaughter houses has led to a much more industrial process, with animals often having to be driven hundreds of miles to factory-size slaughter houses. The best choice for an ethical meat-eater is to avoid supermarkets, support their family butcher, ensure you know where the meat is coming from, and pay more for quality, well-raised animals, if necessary eating less meat (40 years ago a whole chicken was a real luxury!).

  91. before we go off on a horse meat tangent, its lovely tasty, protein rich, slightly sweet and not a contamination’ what a ludicrous term to use. There are abattoirs licensed for Horse butchery in this country and this supermarket, although deceiving their customers into believing they are buying beef, is not guilty of ‘contamination’.

    Where do all the dead horse go in this country? HMMM , they die and go to horsey heaven do they?

    Fact is that Britain is missing out on a great source of protein and meat, some restaurants serve it, but its a bit like the French who eat songbirds hidden under a towel, i.e. its a pssst do you know they are serving horse meat in Southwold.

    I do not like the supermarket chain for its rapacious measures of contaminating the shopping scene, everywhere and at any price, no village too small, but this is a red herring.

  92. I must agree Giles. The subject is a moral minefield, it should be down to every individual to decide for themselves based on the information and the “Meat is Murder” brigade who try to push their morals onto others, in my experience, are remarkably ill informed.

    I too remember the days when the only time you saw chicken was Christmas. Now people walk out of the pub, buy half a chicken then throw half of that in the gutter when the bus arrives. Now that is a crying shame.

  93. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 11:33 am

    Mark Golding
    .
    Well, well. You are coming again with your blatant anti-Americanism. Sometimes it seems you care of nothing but US to fail at all cost.

    It seems you see no trace of Chinese abuse in Africa. Selling Africans cheap and low quality Chinese goods and forcing them to work for pennies and if not importing cheap labour from China to dig out what British/French and Portuguese left. Is your big picture for Africa?

    You quoted Chinese and South African presidents on BRIC becoming “form an important part of common development of the world, which is conducive to a more balanced world economy, more reasonable international relations, more effective global governance and more durable world peace.” Do you actually believe this? Are you aware of what China is doing in its neighborhood? It is more aggressive in securing markets and sources of raw materials than either US or European powers ever were. I realize that you live far from China and might think that it is not relevant to you BUT Chinese expansion reached Europe already.

    As for Russia all its economy is based on exporting raw materials and keeping most revenues in Putin gang’s pockets in foreign bank accounts. As for the more effective global government Russia could offer you authoritative dictatorship masqueraded by chief of the nations motto. Would you who oppose so called American made democracy agree on such model of global governance?

  94. Fred,

    Yes, they point to, say, the mistreatment of animals in a factory farm and use it as an argument against eating meat. Obviously, the sensible choice for the conscious meat eater is to avoid eating meat from such places. An ex-girlfriend who was a member of PETA used to try and persuade me to give up meat by showing me horrific videos of animal maltreatment. I simply said that I make the choice to know where my meat is sourced so I can be confident it has been produced to the highest standards.

    The casual disregard for meat is a result of its throwaway price. It is treated like a cheap product manufactured in China. We shouldn’t take the same approach to farming animals as we do to, say manufacuring toys.

    Nevermind,

    I have eaten horse in France and enjoyed it. It is difficult to change people’s mindsets, however, to eat meat they are not used to or don’t associate as food. For that reason, never invest in an ostrich farm! Several of my friends have lost a small fortune believing it would ‘take off’!

  95. Nevermind,

    I believe Francois Mitterand requested Ortalan bunting for his last meal. The traditional method of preparation is to drown the bird in Armagnac, cook and then eat whole, starting with the head, with a cloth over one’s head to hide both the illegality and the shame of the practice.

    Redwing is still popular in the Poitiers region.

  96. My apologies, should be spelled ‘Ortolan’. Shocking mistake for a bird-watcher….

  97. @ Fred. This Rutland story is as disturbing as it wrong. Cllr.’s, once elected, regardless of whether they are party dogmatists or Independents, should be informed in any case about Council business, all business and they have the right to be informed.

    This one sided BBC story,. yes they are party political as they do not stand up for cllr.s rights to be informed, smacks of electioneering and on 2nd. May, will see many more Independents standing up to the bullying and lying by party politicians.

    Whether its excessive cuts, Norfolk has to cut a further 125 million off their budget, property developing like happened in Stalham, where Norfolk County council who bought a property in 1961 for £2100, has just offered it back to the small Stalham council as a bargain, for £250.000…. and where NCC has bought RAF Coltishall, without a business plan, and against the rival bidder Hanse who offered 4.1 million and had a fully worked out business plan for the airfield. NCC has allocated these monies away from a heavily burdened council and the cabinet clique of cllr.s have morphed into property developers.

    When good people do nothing but take the strain, these scoundrels will get away with bending the law so it suits them. Rutland Councils leading group should be sued/prosecuted for trying to use vitally necessary funds to fund lawyers to pervert the cause of justice.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics
    /stalham_is_borrowing_250_000_to_buy_land_from_norfolk_county_council_guess_how_much_the_plot_cost_the_county_1_1793222

  98. Tony Midgeley is the chairman of Berkeley housebuilding group and St George plc who are building the 600 ft high Tower, One St George Wharf where the helicopter crashed this morning. He has 152 current company directorships!
    http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/907749916

    He was also honoured in the New Year Honours List by Cameron and is a Tory donor like Michael Heller who is also a vice chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9769966/New-Year-Honours-List-2013-Tory-donors-get-gongs.html

    All very cosy.

  99. PIDGLEY not Midgeley.

    A worker from humble beginnings. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Pidgley

  100. Remember Aaron Swartz – A Memorial Page

    http://www.rememberaaronsw.com/

  101. Trinity on GLP has been posting threads that everyone should provide a valid email address and get an account Even though they don’t use it. He claims this is so GLP can communicate with forum users if the authorities take the Internet DNs servers down.

    Of course most of the “retards” (in GLP speak) on GLP are falling for it. Trinity and staff post the most extreme ridiculous crap and then grab the email address and password (probably the same on they use elsewhere) of everyone stupid enough to fall for it. Anyone can speculate on what thy do with this info.

    It has to be said that if the forum was UK based Trinity and half the posters would have been arrested by now – statements like “This is a Muzzie hating forum” and “Kill all Muzzies” are regularly posted by staff and prominent users.

    When not calling for the deaths of all “Muzzies” and unquestioning support for Israel, The forum seems to try its best to stir up civil war in the USA.

  102. It’s disgusting that many of you think that Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy.

  103. ajmccracken,

    Sure you are not “Trinity”. Where has anyone posted here that Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy. That’s GLP you are thinking of. Interesting how quickly you jumped in after the post about GLP – which is more or less calling for armed revolt right now.

  104. I’m wondering how to get my email address, and thereby my mobile number, to Villager and Nevermind, who have both expressed interest in coming down to the counterprotest about Assange’s appearance at the same Oxford Union awards ceremony that will be celebrating Craig’s own endeavours at whistleblowing…

    Villager, Nevermind – can you both ask Clark if he would pass my email address to you? He has it. You can point him to this post as permission to forward it on.

  105. What’s GLP?

    Numerous people have posted Sandy Hook conspiracy talk here.

  106. “What’s GLP?”

    Probably this;

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/news/

    Don’t know Trinity, but from this Post about them;

    “The racism
    The anti-welfare, anti-poor.
    The completely manufactured stories
    The endless WRONG predictions
    etc

    Most days it seems like someone came up with a recipe to provoke hostility and vitriole between people.”

    it rather seems to be a US version of Harry’s Place.

  107. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 2:01 pm

    One of Russia’s most influential criminals Ded Hasan (Grandpa Hasan) was assassinated today in Moscow
    http://www.habermonitor.com/en/haber/detay/ministry-of-internal-affairs-of-russiaded-has/46893/

    Here is his rumafia dosser http://rumafia.com/person.php?id=92

    Some argue that this is another KGB led criminal shake up.

  108. So you not only have never heard of “GLP” you can’t use Google either. Pull the other one. I must have missed all the Sandy Hook conspiracy talk from “numerous people”. It is certainly not in this thread.

  109. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 2:02 pm

    Just to add here that Ded Hasan has had close relationship with Uzbek mafia leader Gafur Rakhimov who was mentioned by Mr Murray on several occasions.

  110. “Trinity” is the owner of GoebbelsLikeProductions.

  111. “Trinity” is the owner of GoebbelsLikeProductions.”

    In that case I’ll change my comparison from Harry’s Place to, the David Icke site effused with the political poison of Harry’s Place.

  112. A trio.

    ‘The helicopter that crashed is believed to have been operated by a company whose clients include David Cameron, Simon Cowell and the Dalai Lama.’

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/9805113/Helicopter-crash-in-London-live.html

  113. Last week [my emphasis] the Obama regime warned the British government that it was a violation of US interests for the UK to pull out of the European Union or reduce its ties to the EU in any way.

    In other words, the sovereignty of Great Britain is not a choice to be made by the British government or people. The decision is made by Washington in keeping with Washington’s interest.”

    http://hamsayeh.net/society/2630-attack-on-sovereignty.html

    Anyone got a second source about this supposed warning last week?

  114. I should add a second quote from the above article, which was the reason it caught my eye:

    “Julian Assange is confined to the Ecuadoran embassy in London, because Washington won’t permit the British government to honor his grant of political asylum.”

    I suppose Craig might be able to confirm through his contacts at FCO whether or no the UK would actually like to grant Assange’s asylum, if it weren’t for the Washington boys breathing down their necks?

  115. Arbed, I just read your request and will forward it to Clark. Hope to talk soon via email.
    I also run enigmail encryption if its required/necessary

  116. Boris Johnson has been praising the work of the emergency services this morning, with special mention of the Londom Fire Brigade. Yet five days ago, he was proposing the closure of 12 fire stations with the loss of hundreds of jobs. Hypocrite.

    London fire station closures and 520 job cuts proposed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20989428

  117. Save our fire stations. Petition here.

    http://www.london.fbu.org.uk/?p=1783

  118. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 4:26 pm

    Mary

    Why? Let slams burn. I bid fire stations in central boroughs will not be touched. Who would put at risk those multimillion Chelsea mansions.

  119. Arbed:-

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/09/uk-britain-us-europe-idUKBRE9080UY20130109

    Reads like the US are worried about not being able to influence EU policy via the UK. Odd when you consider how little influence we seem to be able to create for our own interests.

    I wouldn’t worry about anything in that link you found, I don’t think there was one accurate fact in it.

  120. Milliband D. has put it rather embarassingly in court –that failing to do what the US wants on anything, would result in sharp reductions in intelligence co-operation from the US; idle threats of this were made in the clearest terms. Having become dependent peons, the country would be left deaf, dumb and blind, they tell us. It makes you wonder then what the intelligence services actually do and into which pockets the money spent goes, and if they’ve been sitting on their shiny rumps, idle for many decades, and intend continuing to do so, then the whole operation can be drastically cut to the bone, indeed every government operation and budget should – like benefits for the most vulnerable and poor – be frozen at one percent for the next three years, at a minimum, effectively a swingeing cut in the face of real life price inflation of necessities such as food and heating fuel possibly topping 8 or 9 times that figure. I suppose they’re so out of touch and reliant on the US that they’ll wait for word and a clue from them before dimly recognising such a cut in already well eroded subsistence benefits is a ticking time-bomb which will finally blow with all the stored potential of centuries of inequality and injustice unleashed. If our strictly one way intelligence receiving services, tuned to radio Washington, cannot account for or justify their continued existence in such lavish style and grand scale, then questions need to be asked why we continue to indulge such out of practice and grossly over-manned spaniels, getting (well) paid for doing much less than nothing. I think we should command our government (they are ours, aren’t they?) to call that US bluff and assert some independence, see if the sky falls in or if we’ll all be murdered in our beds.

    Bullying freaks that UK governments are, I don’t think they’d like conclude the Assange matter in a humane and just way, develop consciences, stiff-upper lips or spines enough to defy the US; mental and physical torture -they like it and do it just for kicks alone.

  121. ‘Gentrified’ areas are included Uzbek in the UK and the MPs are worried.

    Fire stations proposed for closure
    Belsize in Camden
    Bow in Tower Hamlets
    Clapham in Lambeth
    Clerkenwell in Islington
    Downham in Lewisham
    Kingsland in Hackney
    Knightsbridge in Kensington and Chelsea
    New Cross in Lewisham
    Silvertown in Newham
    Southwark
    Westminster
    Woolwich in Greenwich

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21012647

  122. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 6:43 pm

    It is being surmised that a key reason behind DOJ’s relentless pursuit and egregious penalties, is that they believed there was a connection to Assange.

    Asking for help here, from our excellent researchers. There is an Assange interview. Cannot find it.http://ttbook.org/book/remembering-aaron-swartz

    Anyone?

  123. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 6:45 pm

    Alzo….MIT Society for Open Science petition asking MIT to apologize to Aaron’s family

    http://open.scripts.mit.edu/blog/petition/

  124. Ben, 6.43pm

    Apologies if I’ve misunderstood your question, but I believe that’s an interview with Assange which TTBooks has put out as a tribute to Aaron Swartz. Assange doesn’t actually mention him in the interview though. It’s an audio only, I think – or you can click on the Transcript button.

    As a part-answer to the first part of your post, I think that’s because there was:

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/290874454656028672

  125. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 7:36 pm

    Yes Arbed. That was the only reference I could find. Another blog suggested there was an interview in which Assange discussed Swartz. It was a slim chance someone might know, so I asked.

    Did you know Secret Service was involved? This was not their jurisdiction.

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/13/two-days-before-cambridge-cops-arrested-aaron-swartz-secret-service-took-over-the-investigation/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=two-days-before-cambridge-cops-arrested-aaron-swartz-secret-service-took-over-the-investigation

  126. @ Nevermind (11h37) – the chief reason for using a towel is because eating ortolans (as you say, they’re eaten whole) is a bloody messy business (they ‘spatter’ around and you may feel like spitting out the odd bit).

    (Like eating sweetwater crayfish wearing a (big) bib)

  127. Our friend Kempe (yesterday, 15h44) says “It’s also telling that anyone is even contemplating an anti-Assange rally…”

    What precisely does that intention “tell” ?

  128. @ Mary (14h32), who writes ;

    “A trio.

    “The helicopter that crashed is believed to have been operated by a company whose clients include David Cameron, Simon Cowell and the Dalai Lama”.”

    Relevance? Point being made? Conclusion?

    Are you simply informing us that these three gentlemen occasionally get around by helicopter? If so, I am underwhelmed and will change neither my vote, nor my viewing preferences, nor my religion.

  129. Arbed, 16 Jan, 1:54 pm, and various others: sorry I’ve been absent. Yes, I’m hoping to attend the support rally for Julian Assange on Jan 23rd. Any and all of you can exchange your contact details through me. Click on my name by my avatar to reach my contact page. Please use the second, shorter e-mail address as it’s easier for me to reply from.

    Incidentally, the reason no one saw my “placard” is probably because it was crap; too small, badly written, on floppy paper and with no stick to hold it aloft.

  130. In spite of the £12bn of our money that NuLabour spent and mostly wasted on IT in the NHS. Hunt is announcing a new scheme whereby the NHS goes ‘paperless’. Some contracts for Tory pals in the equation no doubt.

    Going paperless ‘would save NHS billions’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21033984 Cost not mentioned.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Connecting_for_Health The NuLabour history

    PS The BBC report is not ‘news’. It is actually a PR announcement that Hunt will be making a speech to a think tank today. Policy Exchange is a right wing free market grouping that has led the charge for NHS privatisation. Founded by Boles and then Gove and Maude entered.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Exchange

  131. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 9:30 pm

    Going paperless ‘would save NHS billions’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21033984 Cost not mentioned.

    I note that has been the promise for decades wrt to digital storage, Mary Now we have paper, and….

  132. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 9:31 pm

    Clark; The small nature makes people more curious, like white-space in an advertisement.

  133. Villager, I don’t have your contact info, so I can’t pass it on.

    Nevermind, Arbed, and John Goss, I’ve started an e-mail to multiple recipients with all your e-mail addresses on it. In case you’ve never done group e-mails, just click on “Reply to All…”; when the “Compose” window opens, all e-mail addresses on the list will be included in the “To…” fields.

  134. Ben Franklin 16 Jan, 6:43 pm; thanks for the Emptywheel Secret Services link, which I have passed on. You also wrote:

    “It is being surmised that a key reason behind DOJ’s relentless pursuit and egregious penalties, is that they believed there was a connection to Assange.”

    I don’t think that a specific connection was required in order to motivate the excessive charges against Swartz; Obama and his administration have persecuted whisleblowers more than all previous administrations put together, and they have advocated much legislation to reduce freedom on the internet; this bunch are seriously scared of freedom of speech, and with foreign policy like theirs, well, it’s understandable. However, we do have this from Cory Doctorow:

    http://boingboing.net/2013/01/12/rip-aaron-swartz.html

    “Even though MIT and JSTOR (the journal publisher) backed down, the prosecution kept on. I heard lots of theories: the feds who’d tried unsuccessfully to nail him for the PACER/RECAP stunt had a serious hate-on for him; the feds were chasing down all the Cambridge hackers who had any connection to Bradley Manning in the hopes of turning one of them, and other, less credible theories. A couple of lawyers close to the case told me that they thought Aaron would go to jail. “

  135. The US government, in common with many others, has identified “the people” as “the enemy”. The US has described Wikileaks’ releases as “aiding the enemy”, but those releases are publications, i.e. to the public. Therefore, in the US government’s opinion, the public equals the enemy.

    It fits with the 1.25 billion hollow-point rounds US Homeland Security has purchased.

    Glenn Greenwald:

    “Whatever else is true, Swartz was destroyed by a “justice” system that fully protects the most egregious criminals as long as they are members of or useful to the nation’s most powerful factions, but punishes with incomparable mercilessness and harshness those who lack power and, most of all, those who challenge power.”

    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/01/13

  136. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    16 Jan, 2013 - 10:47 pm

    Clark @ 10:00

    The SS is just another agency promulgating Obummer’s policies, but their involvement straps in the malevolence toward this young man. He had no financial motive as he could easily afford the cost of the data. The reason he was so ridiculously charged with crimes punishable by up to 35 years and $1 million in fines, was his political intent and dissent. THAT is the true crime.

    10:12

    Yes, this is the second bid sought by DHS for 300 million rounds. That’s two .223′s for every man woman and child in the US.

    They are moving fast on gun control as they have the momentum on Newtown’s massacre. No tragedy should be wasted. Children dying one-at-a-time does not get the public attention, but twenty at once, slaughtered like pigs with each having multiple gunshot wounds, gets the public to roll over with 60% approval. I keep hearing how courageous Obama is to take this stand, but he’s just following the polls.

  137. “Arbed, 16 Jan, 1:54 pm, and various others: sorry I’ve been absent. ”

    Clark, being absent from here, or anywhere else, is not something to be sorry about, REJOICE in the freedom not to be in touch, the morning mist pushed by the sun, the snow covered branches glistening, the excited screams and laughter of children sledging down a hill, all great fun and with immense value in itself.

    Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria Syria.

    Not? oh shit……..
    ah well

    Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali Mali, there there, we just can;t manage without controlling others and take what they own.

  138. Habbabkuk: Mary provides a lot of background information, which I personally welcome. If you don’t like it, stop whining about it and skip to the next message.

  139. Clark: Nice to see you back mate, and hope the break was refreshing. It’ll only take a couple of days online again to realise what a nice time it was ;)

  140. “It’s disgusting that many of you think that Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy.”

    Is it any more disgusting than the blatant media management engaged by the authorities? What about those arms control agenda driven folk who have been peddling false assertions and blatant lies?

    There’s also plenty of evidence that the story as currently presented does not tie in with the known events as they were reported at the time, many of which there is still plenty of evidence for.

    We also have the ‘Active Shooter Drills’ being conducted in nearby towns, one of the photos that was supposedly showing Sandy Hook children being led away from the incident with their eyes closed was actually from one of these drills. The events of 9/11 and 7/7 were notable for happening on the exact same day as drills using the exact same scenario that transpired into reality. The suggestion is that the drills are used as cover. There were reports that two armed men were arrested nearby, one of them said “I didn’t do it”, suggesting he was aware of why the police were there.
    http://www.sott.net/article/256425-Man-caught-in-woods-behind-Sandy-Hook-school-was-off-duty-tactical-squad-police-officer-from-another-town

    My personal perception is that the hundreds of photographs from the scene of stretchers and EMS personnel supposedly at the centre of the effort to save people are not credible. It looks as if they are staged, why would they need to do that?

    We also have the news media personnels bizarre behaviour – going from giggling and joking one second to choking up and wiping away fake tears, what do they know that’s so funny?

    None of it makes much sense and to top it all off, when the media story started spinning out of control, the authorities announced that the only ‘truth’ would be coming out of their mouths and they would prosecute anyone who suggested any alternative version of events – just like back in the good old days of the USSR eh?

  141. @ Nevermind (11h37) – the chief reason for using a towel is because eating ortolans (as you say, they’re eaten whole) is a bloody messy business (they ‘spatter’ around and you may feel like spitting out the odd bit).

    (Like eating sweetwater crayfish wearing a (big) bib)

    Hi Habbakuk, it was not me who said that they are eaten whole, but that’s not important, its a disgusting ‘tradition’, as these songbirds are on the endangered list in other countries and are intercepted on their migratory routes. Anything in the air over France is lucky to make it to the border, they shoot at anything that fly’s in the air.

    As if the French/us have not have enough to eat. I like eating crayfish, especially when its the self caught invasive American variety, with gusto….

    Its not the Muzzies, but the crayiezz that we should get to grips with.

  142. “Is it any more disgusting than the blatant media management engaged by the authorities? ”

    Yes it is. The sad acts on the David Icke forum have convinced themselves that nobody died and all the bereaved parents are actors, now it seems even minor police officials and the media are in on the plot. It seems any conspiracy no matter how outlandish and impossible is preferable to the simple truth.

    What’s really disgusting though is that it’s taken the deaths of so many children for the US to wake to the need for greater gun control.

  143. The repellent Jeremy Clarkson demonstrates how to eat ortolans (buntings). How could he?
    He thinks he is so funny. I feel sick.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y4MS7mSzX8

  144. “Yes it is. The sad acts on the David Icke forum have convinced themselves that nobody died and all the breaved parents are actors, now it seems even minor police officials and the media are in on the plot. It seems any conspiracy no matter how outlandish and impossible is preferable to the simple truth.”

    You get people refusing to see the truth everywhere.

    Up here in Scotland our First Minister told a lie, a big whapping lie, he told it on television for everybody to see.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4gKQn9bZom0

    Does he apologise? Does he pretend he made a mistake? No, he pays an independent advisor to say he didn’t actually tell a lie even though it is clearly evident he did.

    These SNP lot are a right bunch of nut jobs in a world of their own.

  145. This one comment, by Nick Robinson on this morning’s R4, 8.10am today, goes to the heart of what has been masquerading as BBC information about all things Europe, how it works/not works, who makes policy, what powers the unelected Commission over MEP’s, How EU law was made and to what extend its senior to respective countries legislations, the human rights act and what changes need to be achieved urgently with regards to the accounts of the EU.
    All the issue that are never discussed because blokes like him want to talk bent banana’s, cause their far more sexy and Kilo vs. Lbs. goes to the heart of being British, innit?

    Nick Robinson is supposed to be a political correspondent and all he can do is belittle important EU issues, the real reason why Joe Bloggs/voters have no idea about Europe.

    I tried to bring back the exact comment from him but BBC I player only lets you listen to the whole programme somehow, you can’t specify the time you want to listen to unless I’m doing it wrong.
    @Mary, most of Clarkson’s actions are bravado, that is why he’s so loved by the toads, he’s doing it to piss off the Greens, his favourite target?

  146. “You get people refusing to see the truth everywhere.”

    You don’t say.

    http://minutemennews.com/2013/01/sandy-hook-fundraising-relief-page-created-3-days-before-shooting-google-search-results-confirm/

    The official explanation: It was made in preparation for the ‘Active Shooter’ drill, just a sad coincidence. Except it was not an isolated incident.

    And does that explain why it was actually used, with people posting sympathy messages, and then later taken down once people started commenting about the date discrepancy?

    You believe that is the truth?

  147. Was it this segment Nevermind?

    0810

    As part of the Today programme’s new year leader interviews, Labour leader Ed Miliband speaks to presenter James Naughtie. The BBC’s political editor Nick Robinson gives analysis.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9786000/9786035.stm where it does have a separate audio link.

    It the good old days, the whole programmes was linked in segments and you could even get transcripts. So much for the NuBBC management whilst salaries and payoffs zoom, all they give us is the silly iPlayer where local news programmes are listed but not replayable. You can get endless celeb stuff like Strictly plus Eastenders of course. The dumbing down is soobvious.

  148. @ Glenn_uk – Not whining, glenn, just asking a question. I’m all in favour of background information, but don’t you think that the information about the man’s numerous directorships is so far in the background to the story of the helicopter crash as to need a telescope to see it?

    @ Nevermind : absolutely agree that killing ortolans, whether to eat them or otherwise, is horrible. Seriously.

    BTW I noticed that Kempe hasn’t bothered to explain to his numerous admirers how the proposed anti-Assange rally is “telling”. Come on, Kempe, don’t be shy, aren’t you paid by the line?

  149. Hear William Hague’s latest pronouncement on why Britain refuses to honour Ecuador’s offer of asylum to Assange. Interview with ABC Australia (relevant section starts at around the 7.30-minute mark but rest of interview re Afghanistan, Libya, Syria a corker too):

    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3671713.htm

    Shhh, nobody mention Pinochet! It’s disgraceful that the interviewer didn’t call him on that. (I was yelling “Pinochet” at the screen :) )

  150. Also listened to part of the Ed Miliband interview of the BBC this morning. He would be laughable if he weren’t so pathetic. No, acftually, I’ll rephrase that : Ed Miliban is laughably pathetic. NuLabour attacks the coalition’s policies, but when asked if they would – for instance – do the opposite, or repeal a particular peice of legislation, it launches into a hurricane of words designed to camouflage that it’s not answering the question.

    Oh dear.

  151. “You believe that is the truth? ”

    Compared to the idea that the 26 victims were faked, provided with fake pathology and fake funerals and that dozens of actors were hired to play the part of bereaved parents, relatives, officials and friends all with the connivance of local police, teachers, funeral directors, doctors, national media etc etc. Well, yes.

    “I noticed that Kempe hasn’t bothered to explain to his numerous admirers how the proposed anti-Assange rally is “telling”. ”

    What I was referring to was the way support for Assange has declined. Compare the size of the demonstrations of support when he first arrived with those that have taken place outside the Ecuadorean embassy.

  152. Kempe, 12.20pm

    “What I was referring to was the way support for Assange has declined.”

    I’d say it was growing, actually. This is, of course, taking an overview – how Swedish commentators are reporting public opinion about the case in Sweden; how US media outlets are talking about Assange now that the US government has confirmed in the Bradley Manning trial that they’d prosecute exactly the same had Manning leaked to them instead of Wikileaks; rough count of supporters vs trolls in Guardian and Independent articles, etc.

    Not everybody has the time to spend standing around on a street protest about something, particularly not something as long and drawn out as an embassy standoff. Besides, didn’t you hear? Assange sent them all hom. Told the protesters they didn’t need to stay as he “felt safe” and he was worried about their health. I think it’s a testament to how much support he does have that some people are still maintaining a daily vigil.

  153. Hey Kempe, since you’re now responding to questions ….

    What was the name of the book that you claim (earlier in this thread) is the real motive behind Tony Farrel’s fall out with S. Yorkshire police, or was that just an unfounded smear?

  154. Thanks for that, Kempe.

    Pace Arbed, I suppose it’s like everything else – the caravan moves on, new stories hit the headlines, etc. So measuring the size of demonstrations isn’t perhaps completely indicative of (more submerged, if you will)support levels.

    As a general comment, I do admire your style (or approach, if you prefer). When you do choose to attempt to rebut (and not attempting to do so is also a good tactic sometimes), you don’t fall for the provocation but always stay scrupulously polite and calm. Thus, in your reply, you ignored my jibe about being paid by the line. Chapeau! :)

  155. Thanks for that Mary, the short version does not have Robinsons jibe on the ‘Train-spotting element of Europe’ in it, had to listen to the long version which was available in an adjustable format earlier.

    He was using the term to describe no Labours inability to foresee what the Tory’s might do sitting on the non-committal fence over Europe, but it marks the whole information deficit that exists.
    Giving a politically inept public a vote on Europe in a referendum, is as much noLabour as it is Tory policy, no difference there. It doomed to failure, because the media will not be able to give impartial information, as they are in bed and dependent on the franchise of fickle politicians who can’t see over the rim of their teacups.

    Ed would also like to give his brotherly love to David, who sees nothing wrong with covering up torture, even a job in his cabinet is not out of the question.

  156. Anyone been following the Live Mail Art project? A Swiss artists’ collective, !Mediengruppe Bitnik, posted a package yesterday at noon addressed to Julian Assange at the Ecuadorian embassy. It contained a camera and a GPS tracker which has been uploading pictures every 10 seconds to the Bitnik website. Assange was alerted it was on its way:

    Delivery for Mr Assange: http://cryptome.org/2013/01/assange-delivery.htm

    The website keeps going down, presumably due to heavy traffic, but the Twitter account is fun:

    https://twitter.com/bitnk/

    (PS. Yes, it did go via Vauxhall.)

  157. This judge needs some corrective re-training. The three thugs should have gone to prison. On sorry, they are ‘heroes’.

    http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/s/2127231_soldiers_spared_jail_after_guildford_assault

  158. “You believe that is the truth?”

    I don’t know, I would have to look into it in detail, I wouldn’t want to be going off half cocked on such a sensitive matter.

    It is reminiscent of the time the BBC announced the collapse of WTC7 half an hour in advance, on 9/11 I have always been in the LIHOP camp.

  159. Forbidden topic, read and destroy afterwards, but …

    @Fred
    I’m MIHOP.
    To quote Rumsfeld Cheney Wolfowitz, et al 12 months before 911:

    “….. absent some catastrophic catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.” (PNAC, Rebuilding America’s Defenses (1997)

  160. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jan, 2013 - 4:08 pm

    Clark; earlier we discussed the Assange link to Aaron Swartz, and I mistakenly referred to an
    assange interview.

    It was actually Aaron being interviewed expressing sympathy for Wikileaks….

    http://inagist.com/all/290630762703753216/

  161. O/T
    It has just started to snow again here in Norfolk, the birds are in haste, feeding. Just gave them some fresh water.
    we already have 3-4 inches on the ground and pedestrian path have turned into polished ice rinks. But then, they are not paying road taxes so they can go and get….

    In some countries it is the law to clear the path in front of your house and grit what is cleared, not here. My missus fell on her backside carrying two shopping bags yesterday and there was nowt she could do about it.

    During the last 72 hrs. the reoccurring limitations of the existing set up has been laid bare and some angry messages have been received by Freemason Cllr. Plant, in charge of planning and transportation here.

  162. Ben Franklin, I forwarded the link you posted to Richard Stallman, who re-published it:

    http://www.stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html#17_January_2013_(Secret_Service_was_involved_in_investigating_Aaron_Swartz)

    You wrote “This was not [Secret Service's] jurisdiction”. Too right. All it was was an infringement of JSTOR’s terms of service, a purely commercial matter until the authorities took the initiative of persecution upon themselves. Swartz downloaded academic articles, the complete opposite of secret or classified information, and he didn’t use any “hacking” or cracking techniques in the process. There is no way that Swartz’s actions could have threatened national security.

  163. Oops! Bit of a slip up by the Met here.

    Police account of Mark Duggan’s injuries ‘differs’ from pathologist Mark Duggan was shot dead by police in Tottenham, north London, on 4 August 2011

    Mark Duggan’s injuries did not appear to be consistent with a police account of the fatal shooting, a Home Office pathologist has told a court.
    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21060194

  164. Mr Albanese’s run at Rio Tinto has come to a grinding halt.

    Rio Tinto boss Tom Albanese resigns over $14bn write-down
    Tom Albanese became chief executive of Rio Tinto in 2007

    Rio Tinto targets $5bn cost cuts
    Weak prices hit Rio Tinto profits
    Rio Tinto reports record output

    The chief executive of mining giant Rio Tinto has resigned after the company announced a $14bn (£8.7bn) write-down.

    The write-down relates to the company’s aluminium and coal-mining businesses.

    /..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21056203
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Albanese

  165. LOL

    After listening to a papal address in several languages, Panetta and three of his military aides lined up, along with dozens of other Catholics, to meet Benedict and receive his blessing.

    Afterward, Panetta said the pontiff told him, “Thank you for helping to keep the world safe.”

    The Pentagon chief said he replied, “Pray for me.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/panetta-in-italy-tells-pope-benedict-pray-for-me/2013/01/16/5999f07e-5fd7-11e2-a389-ee565c81c565_story.html

  166. Mary, thank you for highlighting that meeting of The Top Dogs.

    LOL indeed. What an unenlightened world we live in.

  167. “You believe that is the truth?”

    Same question to you Lemon Puffs, iro this;

    http://forward.com/articles/168277/noah-pozners-family-remembers-and-mourns/?p=all#ixzz2GHg1tBjJ

  168. A Catholic is standing on a mountain and looks down into the beauty of the valley. Suddenly he slips and falls down the cliff and is barely able to hold on to the branch of a tree that is growing there. Below him is an abyss of a thousand feet. He doesn’t know what to do, so he prays, ‘Please, Lord, help me. Save me from death.’ And a voice comes out of the sky and says, ‘Have faith, let go! And the man looks up and calls out, ‘Is there anybody else up there?”

    More at this link
    http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Mystic_Musings/Jiddu%20krishnamurthy/Jokes_by_KrishnaJi.htm

    No 4 is my favourite, i was first reminded of with the Panetta-Pope news item above

  169. I decided to put that one out too:

    The Pope dies and goes up to the Pearly Gates where he meets St. Peter. He says to him, ‘You must be St. Peter.’ St. Peter answers, ‘And who are you?’ The pope is taken aback, ‘You don’t recognize me? I’m the Pope.’ St. Peter picks up his list and goes over the names, ‘Pope, Pope—I’m sorry, there is nobody here by that name. I’m sorry, but you can’t enter heaven.’

    The Pope is shocked. ‘There must be some mistake. It’s impossible—I must be on that list. Please, look again: I’m the Pope!’ St. Peter gets impatient and tells him to buzz off. By now the Pope is in tears and begs him, ‘Please, St. Peter, I’m your successor and the representative of Jesus on earth. I’m the head of the Holy Roman Church. I have a right to enter heaven.’ St. Peter is getting annoyed and says, I’ve never heard of anything so foolish. If you don’t immediately buzz off, I’ll call the angels with the flaming swords.’ The Pope is in utter despair. ‘No, please don’t, I beg of you. Can’t you ask somebody, who knows me? Maybe Jesus or one of the saints will vouch for me.’

    St. Peter gives in and says to the chap, ‘All right, I’ll go and ask inside. You stay here. And don’t touch anything.’ So he goes inside, and there are Jesus, his mother Mary, the apostles and several angels and saints. ‘Excuse me, Lord,’ says St. Peter, ‘there is a chap by the name of Pope wanting to enter heaven. He claims to have been your representative on earth.’ Jesus laughs, ‘My representative on earth? That’s absurd, isn’t it? And I’ve never heard of anyone named Pope?’ No one seems to know the Pope, until suddenly the Virgin Mary speaks up, ‘Wait a minute. Pope—isn’t he the one who spread all the rumors about me and the Holy Ghost?’”

  170. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    18 Jan, 2013 - 1:59 am

    The World has enough ‘Fingarman’ or Fingermen (Hat tip to ‘V’)

    “A pardon for Swartz, however qualified, would undercut the case for severe punishment (including, possibly, the death penalty) of Bradley Manning and others. It would amount to an acceptance that Swartz’ motivation in seeking the free distribution of information was a noble one, and that his offences should have been judged in that light. Perhaps some people would see it as exonerating the state, but I think more would see it as a signal of a new direction, and a precedent to be followed.

    A refusal or evasion would serve the same function as the Czar’s orders to his Cossacks in 1905. Those who still believe Obama’s pledge to run the most transparent administration in history would see the reality, and might be moved to protest a bit more.”

    http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/15/obama-should-pardon-aaron-swartz/

  171. Grazia Ben and also for the link earlier to the radio interview with Assange.

    One has to acknowledge what a bold man he is.

    An extract from that interview is below, as an example:

    “Strainchamps: I’m curious, what about democracy in America? I mean is there, is their information out there that if made public, would have the potential to transform the balance of power in this country?

    Assange: I think it’s quite difficult. I’ve wondered what that information would be, and look like. When we released, we’re still in the process of releasing Cablegate. But when we entered into the Cablegate publication phase we saw a reaction by Washington and it’s friends that was cartoonish. That was, it had a sort of, produced a sort of Mccarthy-ist fervor for around two months, and very startling and unusual. But it reminded everyone of what was happening under the Soviets. And, so, that’s an example where information at that level, and at such quantities, can produce significant reform effects, and produce a back reaction by people in power. What other, sort of, information would be like that, given the extraordinary fiscalization in the United States? Perhaps, all emails of the New York Times going back 10 years. Maybe, maybe that would produce a similar understanding of the interplays between these big power and patrons groups in the U.S.? Perhaps staying to the finance industry. Although, within finance, matters tend to be quite complicated. Maybe all the emails of the U.S. Congress, if you had them all going back a few years. Perhaps that would produce a similar level of reaction. But I think it, because of the strong fiscalization which results in a de-politicization of basic power structures in the country, it is going to take something at that level. But of course the National Security Agency intercepts, estimates all telephone traffic coming in and out of the United States, and others have suggested domestically in places in the United States as well. If that material was released you might see a desire to reform the Intelligence sector.

    Strainchamps: So is that your wish list? [laughing] In a sense?

    Assange: Well, I have a long wish list, but I assume for the United States that wouldn’t be a bad start.”

    I think one way out of the Assange deadlock is for him to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, given to Obama at the start of his presidency. Would they have given it to him if he weren’t a black man? Ironically all the Nobel Prizes are awarded in Sweden, except for the Peace prize, in Norway.

    Is the Committee delighted with their decision to award Obama? They can correct it now.

    Btw a month to go for the Ecuadorian elections…

  172. Agent Cameron’s ‘compassion’. I see the current situation in Algeria as blowback from his and Hague’s ‘intervention’ in Libya and his assistance to Monsewer Hollande. At 11 am this morning he will rise from the green bench and give us a sob story, using nearly as many of those neuro linguistic skills that Bliar used, although not as skillfully.

    Bastard.

    I see twerp Hague is scuttling back from Australia. Such a shame for him to leave the sun and warmth.

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1358497049.html

    I bet the anti EU Tory rightwing are peeved that they are not getting his speech today thuis depriving them of a stage to voice their propaganda.

  173. Felicity Arbuthnot on the start of Desert Storm and what followed it.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraq-a-twenty-two-year-genocide/5319441

    Apart from her clearly demonstrated care and love for the Iraqi people over these past years, she did have her own personal tragedy. Margaret Hassan’s was her good friend and since she was killed, her body was never found.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/thinking-the-unthinkable-was-margaret-hassan-sacrificed-by-the-british-government/2625

  174. s/be Margaret Hassan without the apostrophe etc.

    More about her on Democracy Now.
    http://www.democracynow.org/2004/10/25/kidnapped_british_aid_worker_ask_mr

  175. AQM The acronym of the moment in use by Cameron this morning in the HoC.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_Organization_in_the_Islamic_Maghreb

  176. PS Very few troughers in the House to hear him. All pushed off home I suppose in case they get stuck on their journeys in the snow. Most front bench.

    Still no real news from Cameron. ‘Moving situation’… ‘sympathies to families’ Of course DC. etc.

  177. Somewhere in Amsterdam Mark Urban and Nick Robinson are waiting patiently for the arrival of their favourite PM.

    ‘Eh, Nick me old pal, we’ve done our preps and this is a cool place, just watch the swirling colours on that snow’

    ‘yeah man, sorry, mark, giggle) its everywhere, but why is it blue?, or is it me? what were these little brownies we just tried with our coffee, they were gorgeously yummy, shall we have some more, or shall we go for a round of pancakes next?’

    Nah man, I’ve to sit this one out, feels almost like that Pink Floyd concert I watched during the seventies, Hahhaha, all gooey schmoozy colours, oops I’ve just seen a rabbit flop through the snow, its striped and looks like a slimmed down Eric Pickles, Hahahaha

    ‘D’you recon we ever get out of here with so many yummy cookies everywhere? Ah well who cares, cause DC is not cummin’ he’s chickened out hahaha, Cameron is a chicken hahahah, what a bummer, jabs on about it for weeks and then? haha, he turns into a blue floppy rabbit that can’t move…’ Mark, were are you?’

    ‘Sorry Nick, just dripped off the table, feel like letting it all hang out, All Shabbbabi’s or not, hahaha, whatever next. get me a tank or two I wanna trash Mac whatsits, you know that horsey burger chain, hahaha, with the yellow arches puissing all, over it, hahaha.
    God am I stoned.

    Phone rings
    ‘Hi Mark, Allegra here, looks like Cameron can’t get there, they are still hammering away at the speech and Mali is looming larger and bigger than ever’

    ‘Oyioui, Alegra, Alegra Alegra, what is there to say hahaha, no show eh, chickenshit all over again, gosh I fancy you now…’

    ‘Mark? are you OK? speak later…… hangs up.

    snoring sounds….

  178. And here it is, the school that never closes and its in Craigs birthplace of Sherigham. What a bunch of H&S freaks are running our schools.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/education/revealed_the_norfolk_school_that_never_closes_for_snow_1_1798657

  179. George Galloway at the Oxford Union on Julian Assange. If you listen to the quality of the participants you understand why there have been these protests of Assange’s impending appearance.

    Its quite shocking how ill-informed these students are.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaeW_A1K7SY

    Separately, it still puzzles me why their LGBTQ Society should involve itself. The Assange allegations have absolutely nothing to do with LGBTQ issues. Very queer.

  180. Villager, absolutely agree, much fuss over very little , makes you wonder who steers their boat, who’s benefitting from their PR actions.

    Maybe its the guaranteed BBC coverage and high public profile that these ‘celebrity guiled students’ are going to get on the 20th. is the real impetus.

    I mean, how hard is it for Oxfords LGBTQ society to get such high profile these days? Surely, those trumped up reports next week by the PBC, the paedophile Broadcasting Corp., will do its best to kowtow to the slimey’s that conduct this crescendo and put some heat back into the stale bedrooms and dormitories of their society, oh what fun we all had on the back of Julian….

  181. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 12:34 am

    Clark; Would you, when time allows, vet this. I need your keen analytical skills on the issue of Newtown massacre. Thanks, in advance.

    http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/06/sandy-hook-school-massacre-timeline/

  182. English Knight

    19 Jan, 2013 - 4:05 am

    The gays would be well advised not to be suckered into backing the USreali position (on Assange,Palestine,Iran,etc) otherwise they will surely end up being on the receiving end of another Hitlers wrath (again!). Agent Cameron is simply pushing gay marriage to garner their vote in the upcoming war on Iran. The “Friends” across all parties and gays together should be enough to carry an Iran war resolution in the Commons. After the Scots referendum in 2014 but before the Turkish elections in 2015,that could result in Erdogans exit a la Saakashvilli of Georgia.

  183. “George Galloway at the Oxford Union on Julian Assange. If you listen to the quality of the participants you understand why there have been these protests of Assange’s impending appearance.

    Its quite shocking how ill-informed these students are.”

    Well these are members of the Oxford Union who are responsible for inviting Assange to speak.

    The protest has spread beyond the LGBTQ. Could cancellation be looming?

    http://www.cherwell.org/news/world/2013/01/17/assange-controversy-at-wadham-and-ousu

  184. Moderators – not sure which is best page to put this startling new evidence in, so I’ve also put it in the top page. Please feel free to delete whichever post you feel is abusing the rules :)

    Some journalists have been digging into the reasons behind the US DoJ’s persecution of Aaron Swartz. First, there’s this:

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/13/two-days-before-cambridge-cops-arrested-aaron-swartz-secret-service-took-over-the-investigation/

    Not conclusive of anything much, but the involvement of the Secret Service in Swartz’s JSTOR case is odd. I understand it’s well off their patch. Then there’s this:

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/18/was-aaron-swartz-effort-to-foia-bradley-mannings-treatment-why-doj-treated-him-so-harshly/

    In December 2010 through early 2011 Aaron Swartz was persistently FOIing David House’s visits to Bradley Manning in Quantico. That article includes a handy timeline to bear in mind when reading this Wall Street Journal article, dated 9 February 2011:

    Assange probe hits snag:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703313304576132543747598766.html

    The Empty Wheel blog is starting to put two and two together, here:

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/19/the-six-week-delay-in-the-swartz-investigation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=the-six-week-delay-in-the-swartz-investigation

    And then comes this:

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/292503580135538688

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/292503892569239552

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/292504484016439296

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/292504975865692160

    Holy Hell!

  185. Thanks for that Arbed, seems that Wikileaks is in turmoil without its main man, why else would they denigrate their trust base with these releases, after Aaron Schwartz suicide?

    Another question must now be asked, is wikileaks self destroying itself for a reason? Are they expecting facts to come out that will put us all in a spin?

    Or is this whole line of tweets a string of thought spun with us in mind? the proverbial cat into pigeons?

    This indeed getting interesting and I bet there are some links to be discovered pitching Karl Rove into this murky, but slowly clearing, Fata Morgana?

    Thanks Arbed, now back to the hovering….

  186. ‘Hoovering’.dooh

  187. Hi Nevermind,

    I think the comments I’ve seen on Twitter about Wikileaks busting Swartz’ anonymity and therefore self-destructing themselves are coming from people who are not that familiar with the detail of the Wikileaks Grand Jury investigation. Alexa O’Brien’s timeline “US vs Wikileaks” is the best source for those details.

    My reading of Wikileaks going public about the close connection between Swartz and themselves – a respectful time after his funeral when whether he has anonymity or not cannot hurt him anymore – is that it’s been done to alert the general public about what was really behind the case against him, ie it’s to help those who want the truth and who want justice, real justice, for Swartz and the cause he believed in so much.

  188. “why else would they denigrate their trust base with these releases, after Aaron Schwartz suicide?”

    Have you considered that maybe what they are disclosing are actually relevant facts surrounding what many think is a very suspicious suicide ?

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&tbo=d&site=&source=hp&q=aaron+swartz+suscipious+suicede&btnG=Search&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&sei=Z5X6UJ6jKceb0QWOnYHwDA&gbv=2

  189. Yes I have considered that option Macky and I’m not trying to make out Wikileaks is a placement of some or other state organisation, merely pointing out that they’re not helping to endear themselves to a larger public.

    Maybe the announced releases will set the record straight and show how much we have been hoodwinked by the state terrorists.

  190. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 4:58 pm

    Yes. There is a great deal to be speculated upon. Three facts though.

    1.) Swartz gave an interview in which he expressed sympathy with Wikileaks.

    2.) He was avalanched with a threatened sentence of 35 years; $1 million in fines (far greater than homocide) and this is exactly how they deal with Confidential Informants when they want someone else.

    3.) Secret Service took over the investigation.

    Hmm, what an interesting an unconnected series of facts leaving us with no where to go

  191. Nevermind and Ben,

    I’d put my money on it being to do with the 8 February 2009 Wikileaks release they retweeted immediately after the above 4 tweets about Aaron Swartz. That release was a fully up-to-date archive of Congressional Research Service reports:

    https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Change_you_can_download:_a_billion_in_secret_Congressional_reports

    and the reason I think Wikileaks is guessing Aaron Swartz was the source for that (they can’t prove it because their submission system was set up to anonymise leaks by pinging [technical term, that :) through dozens of different domain servers, shedding metadata as it goes, and keeping no logs) is this article I read a few days ago in the Naked Capitalism blog:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/aaron-swartzs-politics.html

    Aaron Swartz interned in Congress in 2009.

    The other thing to bear in mind is that it was the Secret Service who were on Aaron’s tail. It’s really worth studying the detail of those links to the Empty Wheel blog I’ve posted above. There’s a wealth of clues in them for peeps who’ve been researching the whole Wikileaks saga and know the background quite well.

    The Secret Service, of course, report directly to Barack Obama – at least I think I’m right in saying ‘directly’. They’re in charge of the President’s personal security detail, arn’t they?

    This is getting very big, and very juicy. I’m kinda hopeful that this is the turning point, the moment when people start realising just how merciless – and morally bankrupt – the whole Get Wikileaks/Extradite Assange witch hunt is.

  192. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 5:51 pm

    Arbed; SS has a broad spectrum of duties….a case in point from personal experience.

    In 2005 a friend of mine, who has a sister involved in Texas Democratic Party had a phone conversation with him, in which she blithely made a reference to a wish for natural death for GWB.

    He immediately told her not to go there, and got off the phone. A week later he got a visit from SS who threatened him with detainment in GITMO. Just sayin’

  193. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 5:57 pm

    Arbed;

    In addition, one used to be able to go the Library of Congress, check out scads of material, without any trace of your presence.

    Now you register with your Social Security # and each item you review is scanned into the file connected to your SS#.

  194. The excellent Marcy Wheeler at the Empty Wheel blog appears to be drawing the same conclusions that I am:

    First, there’s this where she analyses the US Govt requests for Swartz’s private data held by Google, Twitter and Amazon, despite those companies apparently having nothing to do with the JSTOR case:

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/14/what-kind-of-fishing-trip-did-the-government-conduct-into-aaron-swartz-amazon-data/

    then she notices the coincidental timing of these subpoenas with similar requests being made in relation to known Wikileaks associates:

    http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/01/19/the-fishing-expedition-into-wikileaks/

  195. Thanks for this from marcy Wheeler, she is excellent at digging and corroborating evidence.

    So Aarons death does have a massive question mark over it and one wonders whether his office and flat could bring up some DNA that is not down to his friends and partners.

    Maybe he even has had a nest egg somewhere, information cached on a USB stick or with a friend, no doubt many people are digging away at it, because he was a solidly great bloke going by Matt’s description of him.

    The world has lost a jewel.

  196. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 6:54 pm

    FYI; link from EW’s comment

    “I was the expert witness on Aaron’s side of US vs Swartz, engaged by his attorneys last year to help prepare a defense for his April trial. Until Keker Van Nest called iSEC Partners I had very little knowledge of Aaron’s plight, and although we have spoken at or attended many of the same events we had never once met.”

    http://io9.com/5975592/aaron-swartz-died-innocent-++-here-is-the-evidence

  197. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    19 Jan, 2013 - 7:04 pm

    Nevermind; Paraphrasing my comment at EW…..

    Since Aaron’s attorneys were denying there was an offer of reduced sentence, and Ortiz (DOJ) came out yesterday (?) saying 6 months was offered, and this being confirmed by defense, it seems, not wildly speculative, that a deal was reached, making Aaron either a Witness for Prosecution against Wikileaks, or a CI. The young man was of high ethical standards, and may have found his position untenable; hence the suicide. This kind of coercion is a staple of our fine Legal System.

  198. Ben 5.51pm,

    That’s a horrific but sadly unsurprising story.

    What a bunch of thugs and goons they are.

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