Uzbek Cotton Slavery Campaign

by craig on January 16, 2013 3:07 pm in Uncategorized

I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.

However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.

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  1. Craig, why on earth should you expect any statement or condemnation from New Labour? Their policy vis à vis Uzbekistan was no different from that of the current government.

  2. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 4:09 pm

    Since Soviets official propaganda call cotton – white gold. However; for millions of Uzbekistanies cotton is slavery. Karimov’s regime treat cotton pickers worse than southern plantation owners treated their slaves in Alabama and elsewhere in American colonies in 17 and 18 centuries. Cotton pickers in Uzbekistan today are provided the worst of the food (if they are lucky), the worst of the accommodation with virtually no sanitary conditions. In addition chemicals are sprayed while some 12-14 years old pick cotton on the fields.

    In 2012 cotton campaign was particularly ruthless. Some say it was due to the internal rivalry between karimov’s inner circle where prime minister Shafkat Mirziyaev (who is responsible for cotton picking campaign) is fighting for karimov’s blessing against more influential and more intelligent (at least in his own opinion) finance minister Rustam Azimov. Mirziyaev in order to improve his reputation in karimov’s eyes ordered all public and private organisations as well as schools, colleges, universities and hospitals to arrange “volunteers” or face fearsome prosecution. Police was ordered to watch cotton pickers and not allow anyone to leave cotton fields until dusk. Some sources suggest that around 15 people were either beaten to death or died as the result of forced cotton picking and some 50 women (some under teenage) were raped by police.

    Another (happier) side of this story is that dozens of high stationed officials and karimov’s own family made another generous replenishment of their multibillion finances. Where else money would come from for gulnara karimova to pay for gerard depardieu’s photosession.

  3. excellent video very simply done, thank you for highlighting the appalling circumstances again and yes, our party politicians are complicit in silence, damn them.

  4. FYI:-

    H&M have been targetted over this issue before with demonstrations at their fashion shows and organised boycotts in the US.

    According to HRW Uzbekistan has escaped censure by US and EU governments because it’s an important route for military supplies going to Afghanistan.

  5. And for supplies of a different kind coming out. Oh yes and then there’s its rather splendid torture facilities, available to certain preferred customers.

  6. Uzbek in the UK

    16 Jan, 2013 - 4:36 pm


    It is also because Uzbekistan is located between China, Russia and Middle East and close to Caspian Sea newly discovered hydrocarbon richness. It is also because president karimov is so called pro-westener despite his appetite for torture and absolute power (well there were many like him around the world during Cold War). It is also because karimov insures that lion share of his and his inner circle revenue enrich some very powerful financial institutions in both Wall Street and London. It is also because karimov insures that so called radical Islamists are kept underground which makes everyone (Russia, China, West, his neighbour dictators) happy.

    So there are these above reasons too.

  7. The H&M Board. All Swedish?

    Uzbekistan is not mentioned anywhere as far as I can see even in the link to the BCI initiative.

    They claim this on their website ‘We are the biggest user of organic cotton in the world.’


  8. “Nobody is shying away from having the tough conversation,” she added. “That said, we also have other interests and things that we need to protect in our relationship with Uzbekistan.”

    “WASHINGTON — The United States has temporarily waived a ban on providing military assistance to Uzbekistan because of the country’s crucial role in transiting supplies to forces in Afghanistan, according to U.S. officials.”

    “At a briefing for reporters, Nuland said that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had spoken “very frankly” during a visit to Uzbekistan last fall to Uzbek President Islam Karimov about U.S. support for human rights and the desire to see reforms by Tashkent. Clinton also raised “individual cases” that Washington is particularly concerned about, Nuland said.”

  9. Some people will do absolutely anything for money. Lilley was a major figure in the Thatcher government. He’s also to be found dissing the idea of man made global warming.

    As co-chair of the Uzbek-British Trade and Industry Council he ought to be facing some very public questions. This outfit is also British government sponsored, so they don’t care either.

    “Peter Lilley, the Conservative MP for Hitchen and Harpenden, promoted Uzbekistan’s cotton industry by inviting companies to an international cotton fair held in the Uzbek capital Tashkent last autumn.”

  10. There’s always a minor royal hobnobbing with these crooks and torturers. From the FCO link above. I believe HRH P Michael and his pushy wife have some other unsavoury connections.

    ‘HRH Prince Michael of Kent and Dr Booth led a delegation of UK business to Tashkent on 8-10 December 2010 for the 17th session of UBTIC.’

  11. “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends”

    Martin Luther King, 1929-1968

    How fitting for No Labour!
    and to the tune of Bob Marley’s song ‘no women no cry’
    New Labour no cry,
    no Labour, no cry.

  12. Human rights and its derivative considerations are of concern to the State, whatever the hue of its putative goverment, only in so far as they may be of use in rallying an ever-gullible population to a particular cause du jour; nothing more, nothing less – pure Machiavelli IOW.

    Hence (by way of example) ‘plucky British islanders threatened by wicked dictatorship’ is invoked whenever the question of Falklands Sovereignty arises; whereas the similar sized population of the Chagos Islands is subjected to the most despicable torment and finally deported in careful secrecy, when the US required a depopulated Diego Garcia as a military base (subsequently named ‘Camp Justice’ BTW) – see this Wikispooks article.

    It is merely a question of importance and the supposed rights of people – especially people with brown skins who speak a funny patois – are supremely UNIMPORTANT if and when they get in the way. So long as the West requires the cooperation of Uzbekistan in pursuit of its Central Asia agenda, its people will be sorely disappointed if they hold out any hope of succour from the UK – IMHO anyway.

    The notion that we inhabit a functioning democracy in the UK – certainly in respect of foreign policy – is frankly quaint (to put it kindly) for a former Ambassador.

    OK, I know, I’m a knarled old cynic. But I do admire the persistence of people who continue to campaign on this sort of issue in the face of such overwhelming odds; honest I do. But if the biggest demonstration in UK history by far, has such a derisory effect (non-existent effect might be a better description) on the march to war in Iraq – and subsequent events, in all honesty, what hope is there?

    If that reads like a counsel of despair, I’m sorry; but its the truth and it has to be faced if an effective opposition/alternative to current escalating insanities is ever to gain traction.

  13. ‘Aitkenhead had previously “profiled” Alistair Darling, the Chancellor who presided over the worst financial collapse in memory. Greeted as “old friends” by Darling and his “gregarious” wife Maggie “who cooks and makes tea and supper while Darling lights the fire”, Aitkenhead effused over “a highly effective minister …he seems almost too straightforward, even high-minded, for the low cunning of political warfare.”

    The judges were asked to compare and contrast such moments of journalistic ecstasy with the same writer’s profile of Julian Assange on 7 December. Assange answered her questions methodically, providing her with a lot of information about the state’s abuse of technology and mass surveillance. “There is no debate that Assange knows more about this subject than almost anyone alive,” she wrote. No matter. Rather than someone who had exposed more state criminality than any journalist, he was described as “someone convalescing after a breakdown”: a mentally ill figure she likened to “Miss Havisham”. Unlike the alluring, electrifying, twice disgraced Mandelson, and the high-minded, disastrous Chancellor, Assange had a “messianic grandiosity”. No evidence was offered. The Gold Shammy was within her grasp.’

    John Pilger in good form on the ‘Shammies’.

  14. campaign with m

  15. @ wickispooks

    Can we say confidently how this is going to pan out.

    A Machivellian undoing pressumably, it seems our friends with a common purpose have all the answers.

    As it is what forces that drive ignorance can easily come undone and hopefuly a positive human spirit will follow and bring peace and prosperity.

  16. ”Swedish Telekom Graft Probe Makes Twist Toward Karimova
    By Joanna Lillis”
    ”TASHKENT, Jan 16 2013 (EurasiaNet) – Newly released documents appear to make a connection between executives from a Swedish company accused of bribing its way into Uzbekistan’s telecoms market and Gulnara Karimova, the daughter of the country’s strongman, Islam Karimov.”



  17. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    17 Jan, 2013 - 12:56 am

    I suppose i can live with polyester….

  18. A previous post from Craig in 2007 on the same subject.

    Primark are mentioned in the comments. They have just reported a 25% increase in like for like year end sales. Does anyone know what their policy is on using cotton from Uzbekistan?

  19. Germany wants their gold holdings repatriated to home soil. They have asked the French to return all of their gold, at a rate of 50 tonnes per year until all 374 metric tonnes are received.

    The French have just commenced military operations in Mali. Mali is Africa’s third largest gold producer. Mali, this past year, increased its gold production by just over 50 metric tonnes.

    Is anyone else seeing the connection here?

    I’m willing to bet that France does not have Germany’s gold and the Bundesbank has given them a few years to mine it from Mali. Yet the Mali source must be secure, hence the military must make sure the gold flows.

    Germany is getting too big for it’s boot again – sabotaging neighbouring countries economies so that they can control all of Europe, France now kowtowing to Berlin, the UK distancing itself from the mainland – seen this all before and it will end bad. On the plus side they’re being nice to some cotten pickers.

  20. I was going to put up a link to favourable articles on Uzbek cotton from the IPWR website but when I saw who the trustees are, I decided not to. There is a HQ in Washington too.

  21. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2013 - 10:38 am


    Despite some integrity questionable trustees IWPR is considered to be more or less unbiased source of information. At least on such attention short region as Central Asia.

    As for Primark, I have not heard of them being spotted in bed with gulnara recently. They might have become more careful with their cotton supply sources but I have another issue with them. Considering the price of their goods one could easily see (or turn their blind eye) onto labour abuse. I for instance see thousands of women in countries like Bangladesh, India and China working days and nights for 2 USD per day. Considering how full of customers their shops are and their turnover I assume most turn their blind eye on these women in far away countries.

  22. Thank you Uzbek In The UK. I agree about Primark. I made the mistake of buying a pair of their espadrilles in the summer. Within two days they had fallen to pieces. I see people carrying multiple Primark shopping bags. So environmentally friendly – they are made of brown paper!

    Spot on Lemon Puffs. Not only gold. Uranium, iron ore, bauxite too.

    PS Is Obama regretting calling his second child Malia?
    Cameron has bitten off more than he can chew. National security meeting this morning on Algeria. Tomorrow attempting to appease his europhobic right wing. That hairline will be receding even faster. He will look odd when he is bald.

  23. One of the reasons the US and EU put up with and encourage a whole list of vile dictators in former Soviet republics of Central Asia is simply they are afraid of China and India getting at their vast reserves of oil and other mineral resources. Also, heaven forbid a socialist get democratically elected, or even a true Muslim.

  24. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2013 - 11:44 am

    Bryan Hemming

    You are partially right. Denying China and India (and especially China) access to the mineral resources is one of the major reasons of western policy in Central Asia. Growing Chinese economy and especially growing Chinese middle class require more energy hence China urgently need to secure reliable sources and Central Asia could be the most reliable and certainly the closest one. Another reason of importance of Central Asia for China is Chinese paranoia with separatism. Like Russia in Eastern Europe China is keen to secure puppet regimes on its immediate western border in order to create so called cordon zone that would prevent Muslim Middle East and South Asia from causing troubles to the troubled Chinese province.

    But you did not mention Russia. Russia is still (and will be for long time to come) single most influential player in Central Asia. More than 5 million Central Asians (mostly from Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan and Kyrgistan) work in Russia and whose remittances partially support local economies. Russia is the only reliable transport route for Central Asian goods to the world market. More than 9 millions Slavs (mostly of Russian origin) live in north of Kazakhstan and comprise around 45% of whole population in that country and who are loyal to Russia more than to Astana. In Russian perspective Central Asia is needed and not as a source of energy but as 1. Cordon zone 2. Power projection area 3. Bargaining chip with China and west. Russia plays major role in Central Asian politics and will have major say in post Karimov and post Nazarbaeyv power transition.

    My opinion is that not China or India but Russia is the major reason on western tolerance of brutal dictatorship. Russia would offer support to any party within Uzbekistan which will be 1. Not totally pro western 2. Non Muslim 3. Accept Russia as a major player in Central Asia 4. Will not join any anti Russian alliances. Thus western policy in Central Asia could only be counterbalancing Russia’s policy.

  25. Read somewhere Martin Luther King ” had a dream “, and Obama ” had a drone ”
    The pillage of Africa is under way.I wonder how long a stable democratic Ghana can withstand the onslaught from the so called civilised West.
    The Sahara is a treasure of the planet just as Antarctica is, but unfortunately it’s an easy target. Not much of a population, poorly armed and still pretty tribal.
    You keep hearing the military leaders talking about over stretch , I wonder when the elastic will burst ? Mineral wealth is real wealth and the people talking about a trillion $ coin and printing paper money know it.The Arab spring seems to have been a well planned invasion of a continent.

  26. lemon puffs had a bad morning so it seems.
    “Germany is getting too big for it’s boot again – sabotaging neighbouring countries economies so that they can control all of Europe, France now kowtowing to Berlin, the UK distancing itself from the mainland.”

    I know that some despise Germany for being efficient and on the ball, for investing their profits in modernising industry and for being No.3 exporter in the world, but this kind of rhetoric is what I expect to hear from UKIP/BNP supporters.

    Can you please us with the ‘sabotaging’ incidents, name a few if you like to put some horse meat to your rant, please.

    If anybody is sabotaging anyone, its Britain, whining about their rights and wants and preferences whilst sitting on the non committal fence, when they could be sitting in Brussels, constructively trying to negotiate our interests and getting the EU our of this rut.
    I’m not happy with the status quo, I want Commissioners elected by us all, not appointed, see audited returns once/year, stop accession to the EU until countries are ready to join.

    Your comment could have come from the mouth of a Greek fascists.

  27. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2013 - 12:16 pm


    Lemon has a point. Germany is naturally continental leader. And shortage (in timescale) of their imperial record of abuse is more to do with France restraining German unification in 18- early 19 centuries than with Germans being less slave thirsty. Like every idea born in capitalism EU benefits those better off. And Germany is the one that is the best off in this Union. I am not anti-EU person but it is neither democratic nor mutually beneficial. Ask those late joiners.

  28. Nevermind, nice to see you’ve learned from the BBC to always put the the UKIP/BNP together.

    Agreed about sitting on the fence though – what’s needed is a hard commitment, an In/Out referendum. Do you object to that?

  29. Uzbek in the UK, Germany has to play by the same rules that have been established for all, by all.
    Not many people in this country blaring on about human rights and wanting to opt out have a clue about the history.
    I bet not one on here could name a EU commissioner, not Barrosso or Ms Ashton, without googling, the information deficit established by the MSM in this country is so bad it stinks of sabotaging the EU.

    Igf German is successful and people want to buy their goods, despite the cheap as chips wares from China, then this speaks for itself.

    Reunification was a massive financial strain for West Germany then, a wholesale rout of existing industries, renewal of infrastructure, coping with the resulting unemployment, not to speak of the increasing influx of workers from other EU countries wanting to work in Germany.

    Germany record of Imperial abuse is as bad as that of Britain, although Britain has never stopped dishing it out, with or without an empire to support its flagging economy, now in a triple dip recession.

    Ms Merkel is most likely getting re elected, however much people here would like to see socialists taking over. As for the course of the EU’s future and US endearment to it, for the obvious self serving reasons, its all about using Britain as their economical aircraft carrier, it will be bleak for Greece and others who had decades of support and financial help.

    Maybe you would like to see Germany leave the EU, say sod you, and fulfil your premonitions, then we could talk up another war here, the MSM would love it, its their favourite subject.

    If in doubt, blame a Kraut!

  30. Ha! According to Nevermind, people not knowing the identities of the external, unelected bureaucrats in charge of an unaccountable organization is because…. .. the anti-EU MSM is conspiring to sabotage the EU!


  31. Nevermind – “Germany record of Imperial abuse is as bad as that of Britain”. Nice try, Nevermind, but Germany’s is a lot worse, especially considering size and longevity.

  32. Is this Algeria thing completely bollox? It certainly seems so.

  33. Uzbek in the UK

    17 Jan, 2013 - 1:50 pm


    I am not saying that EU is altogether bad idea. I am just saying that Lemon has a point in his rant. Germany is capitalist economy. Following basics of economics (and ignoring Marxism) 3 things are needed for successful economy. 1. Markets 2. Resources 3. Investments

    Germany seems to have no problem with 3. In order to secure 1 and 2 Germany could either go WWIII or could hold on to EU. No one could argue that German goods are of better quality and German production is more energy efficient and thus cost effective but Germany still need secured market and resources to secure its economic development.

    In the last 70 years US has had significant present in Europe which itself was a theatre of possible WWIII. But with recent development in East Asia US is shifting its priority and vacuum in Europe will be filled with next in kin which as it happen to be Germany.

    Yes, Germany plays by the rules. But rules have been changing and they have been and will be changing to suit those who benefit from EU most which is as said earlier is Germany. So, options are 1. Play by the rules which benefit Germany the most 2. Leave EU 3. Change EU (but this one is of undoable quality).

  34. @ Giles My use of the word sabotaging merely shadowed lemon’ puffs reference to it. You would not possibly deny that the MSM has indulged in an unbiased information flow with regards to the workings of the EU, it has left people in the dark something rotten, and it shows, every day.

    It might be hard to realise that the weekly vagaries of WW2 articles in the media making out it was the biggest thing ever to hit Britain has anything to do with truth, but it all helps to keep a hun in his place does it not?

    What would they print if South Africa dared to annually remember the battle of Spion Kop? which had Churchill’s hands all over it? Would that be shrugged off as Boer talk? Talking up supremacists abroad, when one’s own country is flush with them is rather stupid is it not?

    Listening to N. Farrage, who received millions in wages from the EU and never supported anything, a wrecker par excellence, and his lack of vision, he dare not paint a picture as to what Britain’s agricultural community would look like without EU subsidies, or what would happen if our EU markets, travelling there and much more are subjected to an extra tax, a maverick who preys on the Tory splits, trying to ‘attract’ membership away from them.

  35. Thank-you Uzbek for consolidating Craig’s exposure of the horrifying state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry.

    The Uzbek government promises America and Britain it will reform, but does nothing. We realise Obama has placed the needs of 100,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan over the needs of Uzbek dissidents, survivors of the massacre in 2005, they remain restrained yet seething inside.

    America waived human rights restrictions on military aid to Uzbekistan while Karimov profits handsomely from US military contracts. It is crystal clear American and British administrations are never honest about what they are doing when their own security and financial interests are at stake.

    Karimov should be called by the tyrant that is his name and the Uzbek radicals will not forget these atrocities. Their time will come.

  36. Wickispooks, at 7.16 pm yesterday. That is a great article about the Chagos Islands and the despicable thing we British did to the Islanders. I post it everywhere as a testimony against modern imperialism.

  37. Nevermind,

    First up, do you support an In/Out referendum, yes or no?

    I’d say the MSM is more pro- than anti-EU. Interestingly, it tends to be commented on less in the pro-EU media such as the Guardian and BBC, and more in papers such as the Telegraph. In fact, Telegraph readers are, for the most part, highly informed about the EU and consider it a major, if not the major, political issue in Britain. The liveliest debate is to be found on such sites which are sceptical about our membership. You might say readers have been fed dodgy information, but I’d say they are some of the few who have bothered to research what a rotten, wasteful, corrupt and unnecessary organization it is. All of them could, of course, answer your earlier test about naming the Commisioner and would, indeed, wonder why you are asking such an obvious question. The exists a healthy and democratic distrust of the EU in this country, while its supporters tend to remain quiet or make vague assertions about how there have been no wars between EU members, or how those against it are anti-European little Englanders, and other claims that don’t really stand up to scrutiny. Otherwise they devote their time to finding ever more ingenious ways of denying the British people a referendum. It’s also interesting, given your first paragraph, how little discussion there is of the EU on this site.

    The proliferation of WW2 articles, films, documentaries, etc., is due to it being such excellent subject material. Most people have at least a basic understanding of the history and it fascinates them. I inderstand it’s not much fun to be on the losing side, and you’ve a heavy burden to bear when your country gassed 6 million Jews, but hey, it’s cracking entertainment and very few people hold a grudge against the Germans. Certainly, it is one of my favourite places to travel. It has absolutely nothing to do with “keeping the hun in his place”.

    I’m not denying that there were shameful episodes during the British Empire, as there are in all empires, but your attempt at claiming parity with British crimes is, if I might say, a typically German thing to do, of the “Ah, but you Englanders invented the concentration camp” school of denial. Germany managed far worse, in far fewer places, in a far shorter time, than Britian.

    Farrage’s party receives that money, not Farrage. Personally I think he’s a bit of a spiv, and the UKIP a one-man band, but at least he speaks up, unlike those faceless MEPs who clock in for 5 minutes a day to claim their allowances, and our quisling politicians who do exactly as they’re told by the EU so that they can one day join the gravy train. Our markets can get along just fine without the EU , as they have since, well, forever, and continue to do so in countries like Norway. Ever-increasing costs, additional layers of bureaucracy and directives, the creation of a superstate with political union, none of these benefit business. We can look after our own farming and our own fisheries and if someone makes a cock-up, they can be voted out of office.

    Ultimately, whatever passes for democracy on these islands is a darn sight more accountable, democratic and transparent than the EU monolith, membership of which I’m sure you will agree, even if you disagree with everything I have written, should be put to the British people in a referendum.

  38. @ Uzbek in the UK
    ‘No one could argue that German goods are of better quality and German production is more energy efficient’

    Well, I do, with the proviso that nobody is perfect and that it does not happen at all economic levels.

    For example. Germany recycles 13% of its raw material needs from waste, including I might add, modern technological methods of recycling rare earth materials vital for a less energy intensive world. It operates a cyclical resource economy.
    Compare that to shambles here. No national goals for the guaranteed uptake by industry of recycled materials, a linear policy development that ends in landfill or medieval waste burning in incinerators, operated by companies that have records of fines for polluting as long as your arm.

    To claim that Germany is on a war footing when it is us who are fighting wars on the turn of a switch, is utterly delusional.

    Those here who trust their political party minorities to do different (UEA’s motto) must realise that its these parties that shaped society and have presented us with this situation, that they have no guts to change, nor the will.

    I’m with Wikispooks on this wake up for goods sake and lets take this country back from vested interests and war mongers.

    I agree with your assumption that Russia is the real goal for the US, but you forgot to mention the now close relationship between the once erstwhile enemy China and that if worst comes to the worst, first strike talk of Chinese underground nuclear facilities, contaminating us all is bound to bring them even closer.

    If the US strikes at China, we will have ww3, regardless of what Germany does or wants. Germany has an active and lively anti war and anti nuclear movement. They can’t just send soldiers everywhere on the whim of some PM or send special forces on a jolly to Algeria, they have to vote on it in Parliament, the old notion of democracy has still some meaning in other countries you know.

  39. “Let’s take this country back”

    Agreed, but you want to give it away!

  40. Anyway, this from the GBC is hilarious:

  41. @Giles
    First up, do you support an In/Out referendum, yes or no?

    No, not without clear and unbiased information for voters or without anything to vote for.

    yes, once there is a clear picture on what to vote in or out for, without it, its a mere fart in the wind.

    Another small point, within the British political system, whatever the vote, you could never be assured that the political parties would pull their arse off the fence post.

    “I inderstand it’s not much fun to be on the losing side, and you’ve a heavy burden to bear when your country gassed 6 million Jews, but hey, it’s cracking entertainment and very few people hold a grudge against the Germans.”

    Giles, I feel no burden whatsoever, I’m not responsible for the mistakes and atrocities of my forefathers, but I do recognise that WW” is the biggest thing ever that happened to these cute isles, why else continually use it to lighten up your debates? And it is on the curriculum forever, not all true, but who cares what our little darlings learn in schools.

    ” Germany managed far worse, in far fewer places, in a far shorter time, than Britian.”

    Hmm, that is debatable and down one’s individual breadth of education, would you not agree?
    Although Germanys atrocities were fast and furious, they were in the open, not hidden and denied as the 1.8 billion Muslims that died under the Governments of the Raj, with not much being done to help them, after all Britain set up the Swadeshi national council and opted to support nationalist Hindu politicians and parties.
    I find these kind of comparison futile and shall leave it at that.

    Good o’l Nigel, he speaks out, ahhh, but what does he actually say apart from ‘lets get out of Europe’ at every election, regardless whether its a council election, for MEP or for Parliament. The money does not go to the party at all, sorry, but I set up the UK’s first Green MEP’s relations with their party and the money is not controlled by the party but by respective MEP’s, that includes all allowances. Most of that is pent on office staff, normally, but UKIP never voted FOR anything so their office staff is pretty much involved with not much more but to inform the MEP’s of when to vote against something and that’s all they ever do.

    lastly you seem to be of the impression that I’m defending the EU’s set up, created by vested interest party politicians and cocked up by them.
    Not at all, I want to see changes to it major changes and if they are not forthcoming, the EU will fall to pieces anyway.
    Now what better proposal than the EU have you got? What’s your proposal for change and how would you get sustainable regulative frameworks on all sorts of issues without cross border cooperation.?

    Finally, I apologise for treating this thread like an EU thread and shall seize forthwith contaminating it.

  42. Thank-you for this and all of your previous postings on Uzbekistan. I have finally gotten around to finding out if the vendors I purchase cotton products from refuse to buy from Uzbek sources and will be communicating with my MP about Canada’s positions and actions on Uzbekistan. This is all so depressing.

  43. The Chagos scourge and wretchedness makes my blood boil John Goss – This from ‘History commons’ demonstrates the nefarious, heinous, barbaric and heartless nature of the British establishment and their military zombies:

    “With the arrival of the first Americans at Diego Garcia, the largest atoll of the Chagos Archipelago, the island’s remaining residents are told they must leave. [BBC, 11/3/2000; CBS NEWS, 6/13/2003; CNN, 6/18/2003]

    Recalling the massive forced relocation, Marcel Moulinie, the manager of a coconut plantation on the island, tells CBS 60 minutes in 2003 that he was ordered to ship the people out. “Total evacuation. They wanted no indigenous people there,” Marcel Moulinie explains. “When the final time came and the ships were chartered, they weren’t allowed to take anything with them except a suitcase of their clothes. The ships were small and they could take nothing else, no furniture, nothing.”

    To make it clear to residents that there would be no compromise, Sir Bruce Greatbatch, governor of the Seychelles, orders the killing of the Chagossians’ pets, which are rounded up into a furnace and gassed with exhaust fumes from American military vehicles. [CBS NEWS, 6/13/2003; CNN, 6/18/2003; ZNET, 10/22/2004] “They put the dogs in a furnace where the people worked,” Lisette Talatte, a Chagossian, will later tell investigative journalist John Pilger. [1500 pet animals killed]

    “[W]hen their dogs were taken away in front of them our children screamed and cried.” [ZNET, 10/22/2004] Marie Therese Mein, another Chagossian, later says US officials threatened to bomb them if they did not leave. [SELF-DETERMINATION NEWS, 1/28/2002; ZNET, 10/22/2004] And the Washington Post interviews one man in 1975 who says he was told by an American official, “If you don’t leave you won’t be fed any longer.” [WASHINGTON POST, 9/9/1975]

    The Chagossians are first shipped to the nearby islands of Peros Banhos and Salomon and then 1,200 miles away to Mauritius and the Seychelles. [BBC, 11/3/2000; CBS NEWS, 6/13/2003; CNN, 6/18/2003]

    Before the eviction, the Chagossians were employed, grew their own fruit and vegetables, raised poultry and ducks, and fished. [SUNDAY TIMES (LONDON), 9/21/1975; SELF-DETERMINATION NEWS, 1/28/2002; BRITISH ROYAL COURTS OF JUSTICE, 10/9/2003; TRIBUNE (BAHAMAS), 11/17/2003] On the island of Diego Garcia, there was a church, a school as well as a few stores. [SUNDAY TIMES (LONDON), 9/21/1975] But now, after being removed from their homes and dumped into foreign lands without compensation or resettlement assistance, they are forced to live in poverty. [CBS NEWS, 6/13/2003; CNN, 6/18/2003]

    The uprooted Chagossians find shelter in abandoned slums, which have no water or electricity. [SUNDAY TIMES (LONDON), 9/21/1975; CHURCH TIMES, 1/7/2005] Many commit suicide during and after the eviction campaign. [ZNET, 10/22/2004] Lisette Taleti loses two of her children. [GUARDIAN, 5/12/2006] Describing the plight of the Chagossians at this time, the British High Court writes in 2003: “The Ilois [Chagossians] were experienced in working on coconut plantations but lacked other employment experience. They were largely illiterate and spoke only Creole. Some had relatives with whom they could stay for a while; some had savings from their wages; some received social security, but extreme poverty routinely marked their lives. Mauritius already itself experienced high unemployment and considerable poverty. Jobs, including very low paid domestic service, were hard to find. The Ilois were marked by their poverty and background for insults and discrimination. Their diet, when they could eat, was very different from what they were used to. They were unused to having to fend for themselves in finding jobs and accommodation and they had little enough with which to do either. The contrast with the simple island life which they had left behind could scarcely have been more marked.”

  44. Regarding my Chagos post it is easy for me to equate this atrocity to that of the Palestinian struggle; their villages scorched, the inhabitants murdered, income lacking as cultivated olive tree plantations are destroyed, an East German class dividing wall preventing community cohesion, Palestinian homes possessed by force and illegal settlements built on Palestinian land enforced at the point of a trained gun.

    When will these zombie acts be bought to book? Will two million who marched against the Iraq war enact civil disobedience perchance?

    No – we remain unaffected, apathetic and impotent in our own little worlds like paper tigers.

  45. Pot, Kettle, Black.

    Algeria failed to inform the U.K. before starting the military operation, Cameron’s spokesman, Jean-Christophe Gray, said earlier. Cameron had asked his Algerian counterpart, Abdelmalek Sellal, to tell him before any action was taken.

    Officials admitted that no contact had been made with Rome before David Cameron gave the go-ahead for the mission. Italy yesterday demanded ‘utmost clarity’ from Downing Street – with the country’s president Giorgio Napolitano describing as ‘inexplicable’ the failure to inform Rome in advance of the rescue attempt.

  46. Exactly Mark Golding, it made my blood boil too, especially since the first I had heard of it was when I read the article, which should be read in total to see what bastards the UK military employ. Incidentally I reposted it in the comments (the last comment) of my article:

    The comments do not allow URL links so I wrote: ‘If you Google “Falklands and Chagos – a tale of two islands” it should bring up a Peter Presland article of that title.’

    I mentioned too in the comment about all the islanders dogs being herded into a barn and gassed to death. My comment has a negative approval rating, as though these acts of barbarity have the approval of those who have made it their business to diss my remarks. It’s The Guardian all over.

  47. Terrible. Sad. Criminal. John Pilger has been on their case for many years but there will never be any justice for them until Little Britain stops obeying Amerika but as the West is rapidly going down, who knows what the future holds for the Islanders.

    No justice from the ECHR either in December. Note Hague was pleased with the decision.

    The island was tainted further when the evil coalition used it as a base for rendition, ie taking victims to be tortured, and at first denied. When I was a young woman, I never thought I would know of the evils that have taken place in the last three or four decades.

  48. Human Atrocities – The PNAC Catalyst for the Iraq War

    George W. Bush’s foreign policy advisory team in the year 2000 were Condoleezza Rice, Richard Armitage KCMG, Robert Blackwill, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Dov S. Zakheim, Robert Zoellick, Paul Wolfowitz, and Scooter Libby. The team was named ‘The Vulcans’ after the Roman god of fire and metal-working.

    A ‘volcano’ or the opening in the earth’s crust derives it’s name from ‘Vulcano’, a volcanic island in the Aeolian islands of Italy. Vulcano originates from Vulcan.

    ‘Pyroclastic’ flow’s are a common and devastating result of some volcanic eruptions. They are fast-moving fluidized bodies of hot gas, ash and rock at very high temperature, hot enough to melt steel and turn concrete into dust.

    A thermo-nuclear device detonated at a calculated distance below bed-rock would create a cavity of evaporated and pulverised rock at >3000 degrees C that would melt anything above instantly. The hot gases would form a pyroclastic flow. Very little or no radiation would leak above ground.

    The site of a nuclear explosion is called ‘ground zero’

    Thank-you to Mr. Dimitri A. Khalezov, a former officer of the Soviet nuclear intelligence, for his analysis.

  49. Mark Golding, it was the nuclear tests in the atmosphere that caused the thinning of the ozone layer over the South Pacific, Australasia and which is growing over Antarctica. Billy Murray McCormac was responsible for these experiments. It is not surprising therefore that his son, also Billy McCormac, is a top executive of Prime PR in Sweden, the company which with the support of Karl Rove is responsible for concocting the case against Julian Assange.

  50. A worrying report about American imperialism today. An American judge has ruled that Russia must hand over documents which have never left Russia and have no connection to America to an organisation in America.

    I’ll give links to both the American and Russian versions as they differ in detail.

    Whichever is right it means that America considers their domestic law applies to the entire world and that an American judge has higher authority than a sovereign state.

  51. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 11:52 am


    Generally American imperialism is a worrying thing but in this particular case it is easy to speculate when it is taken out of the context.

    This refers to the document on Judaism collected by Russian Jews within several hundred years. You should be aware of anti-Semitic waves in both Czarist and Soviet Russia. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were forced to flee Russia leaving everything they owned behind. In addition to this many properties of both Jews and others in Russia were made property of state. Hundreds of thousand pieces of art and jewellery moved from private owners to state coffins some were traded in exchange for hard cash in the early days of Soviet republic. Some Jews of the community where these particular documents were collected are now laying claims on what their community collected and owned until it was taken by the state. Whether or not they are right it is up to the angel you look at history. Russia itself for instance heavily robbed Eastern Europe and Germany in particular after WWII blaming them for disastrous distractions and loss of Russian lives during the war. Dozens of factories were moved from Germany to Russia laying foundation to some flagship soviet industries such as watch or TV making.

    In Baltic states for instance properties were returned to the private owners after the fall of soviet system. Some Estoniyans, Latviyans and Luthvanians who left their countries after Stalin’s invasion were able to get back properties owned by them or their parents before the invasion.

    I realise it might be difficult to understand this here where developments like this have taken place some 500 years ago.

  52. Fred, not the news story of the day but if these religious books were so important to the US Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic group they should have taken them with them when they chose to live in the land of Satan. The important message as you say is that the US sees itself as the judicial system of the world. The US is not even a signatory to the ICC but one day, God-willing, its leaders will end up there on charges of torture, mass-murder, wrongful imprisonment, theft and all the other crimes perpetrated by the so-called ‘land of the free’ on the rest of the world.

  53. Uzbek, there is a difference between returning to property to having it returned abroad to you.

  54. Mark G 1:22am

    I’m not sure what to make of Dimitri Khalezov. I had contact with him a couple of years ago around the time of the Viktor Bout arrest and subsequent rendition to the US from Thailand where they were both resident.

    With his approval, I tidied up a long essay of his from its heavily Russian-compromised English grammar version and put it up on Wikispooks here – FWIW.

    That’s not an endorsement BTW. I have become pretty clear in my own mind about the over-arching, essentially false-flag nature of 9/11 and WHY it happened. Which makes the detail of precisely HOW it was pulled off, of waning interest. I therefore remain studiously agnostic about pretty much any and every ‘HOW’ theory unless and until it can be definitively ruled out without recourse to emotion and allegations of absurdity/credulity. Cass Sunstein-like, there are masses of disinfo out there too, but also some dedicated researchers who keep turning up real corroborating gems.

    There are some interesting pictures of clearly molten and re-solidified rock in the demolished tower foundation excavations which I’ve never seen adequate explanation for. Can’t find a link right now but they are among the official archive somewhere.

  55. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 12:06 pm

    John Goss

    I take it that you never been forced to leave the place you were born in or lived for the long time and established connection with. The very necessity to live such place speaks for itself. People are not usually given much time to pack their luggage and if they manage to do it they are usually robbed on their way. It was not like you boarded a plane and flew from London to Paris first class. It was probably sensible to live these documents there or they have been taken by the state beforehand.

    In 1918-1919 people were shot for hiding sack of wheat to have something to each in horrible Russian winter.

  56. Uzbeck In The UK.

    I was trying not to comment on the rights and wrongs of the case, that’s not for me to decide. I posted links to both sides of the story so as not to show favour.

    It is a matter for Russian law or international law to decide, the fact that America considers they have the right to decide that is the worrying part and if you say they have the authority in this case then you are saying they have the authority in every case.

  57. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 12:33 pm

    John Goss,

    I agree on the difference but again you need to know Russia in order to understand the context. 21 years have passed since end of communism and monopoly on public ownership and yet still rights on private property have not been set properly. People can own the building but not the land on which the building stands. It opens up whole way of measures for the state to use its force when needed or to blackmail those private owners.

    Think of these for instance. Millions of people in 1930th -1940th were forced to work in Gulag system to build backbone of soviet heavy industries, millions of them died of cold and malnutrition. And yet after 1991 many factories were privatised by few (mostly former party leaders or former state appointed factory managers) for pennies. New class of New Russians (Oligarchs) was born. Was this fair?

    Or about this. Huge mass of land just outside of Moscow belonged to a family of well established Russian traders before 1917 October revolution. Since then it was nationalised and stayed mostly undeveloped for over 70 years. Today it is being sold piece by piece by government (by proxy some corrupt government officials) for over 5.000 USD for square metre. Tomorrow there is a good chance that the same land can be nationalised AGAIN and sold to another private owner AGAIN. Hence NO need for the Russian government to put any clarity in rights of private ownership.

  58. John Goss

    The rights and wrongs don’t concern me.

    If this continues we are going to get people who have obviously lost their marbles taking the British Museum to an American court. Whatever the outcome it means that everyone in Britain has lost their freedom and become American subjects, subject to American law.

  59. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 12:38 pm


    The irony is that that there is no such thing as Russian LAW as you know it. Russian Law is what Putin and his gang need or want. Similar to Uzbekistan in Russia no security is guaranteed to any private ownership and investment. In very rare cases when legal measure will not work illegal measure are employed (mafia is sent to do government’s business).

  60. Uzbek In The UK

    I help someone who has a blog trying to fight injustice in the American legal system, believe me, the Russian system can’t be any worse.

    But that is beside the point, as how bad the Russian legal system may be it is the one that applies, if you say America has jurisdiction in this case you say they have jurisdiction over all of us in every case.

  61. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 1:14 pm


    I agree no justice system is perfect but that of former USSR is possibly the worst one. Only people like Gulnara Karimova and similar to her who have access to state apparatus will have upper hand ALWAYS in legal systems like this. US and British Law might not be perfect but at least you can argue and sometimes win arguments in court and what is even more important is that the order of the court is followed. The cases I know of can be of good example both here in Russia and in Uzbekistan.

    It is true that US legal system is not and does not have to be global and US legal authority is not and must not be global but in this particular case my heart lies with them. Russian law is so corrupt and so bendy that I have no trust in it.

    It might be good argument in support of universal law. But then it is also something that is quite impossible to achieve in the world of national states where some of which are run by corrupt authorities.

  62. “It might be good argument in support of universal law. But then it is also something that is quite impossible to achieve in the world of national states where some of which are run by corrupt authorities.”

    We had a chance of universal law through the United Nations, America’s “might makes right” attitude saw an end to it. I defy anyone to look at the list of American vetoes of UN resolutions and tell me America has any regard whatsoever for justice or democracy.

    America ruined any chance of a world wide justice system and now they are declaring themselves dictators to the world.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of any particular case America does not have the right to judge it.

  63. “I take it that you never been forced to leave the place you were born in or lived for the long time and established connection with.”

    Uzbek, you’re right, I was not forced to leave, but when I sold up my house and cycled half round the world, I gave much away, sold much cheap and took perfectly good property to the tip because I had to dispose of it somehow. I’m starting to build up possessions again now, probably more than what is good for me. There is something liberating in getting rid of the shackles that bind you to one spot. The difference of course is that it was my decision to part with my possessions.

    The few things I took with me were largely light and of sentimental value, but it was not possible to protect everything from theft, and there were several blatant attempts to make more bulky things fall off the back of my bike. I carried a computer and tent. One of the precious things that went missing was a silver and enamel darts’ medallion my father won in 1941 in the Rotherham individual darts’ championship. He had it inscribed with my mother’s name. Such a memento is irreplaceable, not for its intrinsic value, but because it was a little piece of family history that will mean nothing to future generations or even the person who stole it from me, but because it meant something because I had inherited it from my late parents. When things are gone they are gone.

    I was on a ‘paper-trail’ following some of the routes by which the papermaking process came to England. The earliest known paper-mill in England was operating in 1495 which in Europe was late. My journey was taking me to Samarkand, because I have an interest in the hand-made paper industry, and papermaking came into the west via the Silk Road. I only got as far as the Azerbaijan border where I was waylaid by a stomach-bug, possibly picked up in Tbilisi, unless it was due to cold from the driving sleet between Tbilisi and the border, with no cafes or food-shops en route. One day, if I can get fit again, I should like to complete my journey to Samarkand by bike.

    No, I have never been forced to leave my home, but for those it happens to I am sure it must be tragic. You will never hear me bigging up the US judicial system, or the UK judicial system, and particularly not that of Uzbekistan. Nearly 800 prisoners, some are still there and all are Muslims, have been incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay in the west’s war on Islam. Only one has been tried and convicted. Six have died there. Adnam Latif died in September last year aged only 36 having spent a third of his life there. Theresa May has sent British subjects Babar Ahmad and Talha Ahsan and three others to face solitary confinement in US supermax prisons, in cells constructed of 75.5 square foot of concrete with a three inch window, thin mattress, and only one hour of exercise a day. If success can be based on conviction these supermax prisons are successful. According to John Pilger 98% of detainees ‘plea bargain’ to get a lighter sentence. That means they confess to something they did not do because of the daily torture. No I don’t big up the US.

    Possessions can weigh you down. At least we have our freedom. So does the Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic group. Be thankful for that freedom. And fight for those who have had their freedom taken away from them. It is a precious commodity, worth much more than any books.

  64. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 2:30 pm


    Please do not even start me on UN.

    Firstly be aware that UN despite sounding as United Nations and uniting representatives of most of the nations in one large building does not actually represent those nations. It was initially created with sole purpose as to divide the world between 5 great powers within 2 superpower camps. Those 5 powers until now have privileged rights and all others reduced to the 2 second class status. The whole point of UN during cold war was to be an arena where 2 conflicting superpowers could speak to each other and rely on formal (but mostly unnecessary) support from the rest.

    After end of cold war UN lost its primal purpose. There were no longer 2 camps. There was one camp and one system dominated the world. So the nation dominated in this dominated system decided to drop whole 2 camps idea.

    And even during cold ward in the best UN years it never represented any small or medium nation. The problem is that it had no authority on its own. Whole authority was in hands of selected 5. All others needed to balance their interests within the interests of those selected 5.

    Is this universal justice you could rely on?

    My view of the universal justice is that which represents all and represents them equal. But justice as you might know needs to be enforced or otherwise it will not work. How could you enforce justice without putting it at risk of it being dominated by one or few parties.

  65. “If success can be based on conviction these supermax prisons are successful.”

    In America success is measured by how much money something makes, they are remarkably successful.

    Like the privately owned children’s homes that pay judges and prosecutors to drag crying screaming children away from their parents.

  66. “Is this universal justice you could rely on?”

    We had a chance, we had the opportunity, we could have brought civilization to the world. The psychopaths in charge wouldn’t let it happen.

    Which is all the more reason not to trust them now.

  67. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 2:56 pm

    John Goss,

    You said it. Nobody forced you to flee. You decided to sell your possessions but some of us (or most) have families, relatives and attached to them and to the place they live in. And when out of the blue you face dilemma to leave this all and escape the least you can think of is packing everything accurately and making sure nothing is left. Especially if you are not aware of where your joinery will take you and who you meet on your way. It is dramatic. Possessions you leave behind still remain yours (at heart) despite physically being taken by others. It is dramatic too.

    I agree that freedoms is the most precious thing. But it cannot be obtained all over the world overnight. It has to be earned, fought for and sometimes even bought.

    US legal system and especially that of Guantanamo is horrible thing. Something like this has been happening in Russia and its colonies over the centuries. And if corrupt American legal system does try to bring some clarity to corrupt Russian legal system I support it. I would have done the same if it was vice versa. I support everything that brings trouble to those who abuse freedom.

  68. It’s not just the legal system of the US that is in need of reform. It is its wanton wars on the Middle East and North Africa and soon probably Central Africa together with its supercilious belief in being always right even when it is clearly in the wrong, and the UK’s complicity in this.

  69. Can anyone in Central London find out how Barbara Tucker is? In these sub zero temperatures, she must be in a bad state especially without food and drink. Are Boris Johnson, Cameron and the Met going to have her death on their hands?

    These are the latest reports I can find and they are a fortnight old.

  70. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 3:30 pm

    Manifest Destiny manifests itself in US foreign policy since its inception. But it seems that the world is moving towards bipolarity again. So American dominance is living its last years. Still arguably but it was much smoother than the era of European balance of power politics.

  71. “These are the latest reports I can find and they are a fortnight old.”

    Here you go Mary, a report out today.

  72. Thanks Fred. Poor soul and so brave. I can only hope she gets some cover and blankets and survives. It is hard and uncomfortable to sit in the (relative) warm and write about her predicament.

  73. Wikispooks,

    I have contacted Dimitri using his PGP key. I have asked him to kindly furnish more details of the apparent demise of his friend and translator Vadim Alexandrovski who may have been murdered.

    An insight into the background of Dimitri can be gained here:!_10-Feb-2011_Gordon_Duff_interviews_Dimitri_Khalezov_DON'T_MISS_IT!.mp3

    Dimitri had conversations with former Mossad agent Mike Harari who was part of an Israeli propaganda team tasked with formulating responses to journalists investigating the demise of the World Trade Center.

  74. Mark Golding, I’m getting a 404 error message from the link you posted at 4.43 p.m.

  75. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    John Goss

    You need to copy whole link including !.mp3 bit

  76. Uzbek in the UK

    18 Jan, 2013 - 5:04 pm


    That proves that peaceful protests on such vital issues as war and peace are ineffective even in such civilised society like this one. It might take many more casualties until blood thirsty at the top are pushed to change their policy.

    The most important here is that people (or better call them electorate) are more concerned with their day to day economics (jobs, mortgages, schools, healthcare) than with something that is taking place thousand miles away. Plus military service is not compulsory here, so only tiny minority of servicemen’s families are directly involved in conflicts. It is this in scope of biased mainstream media that creates atmosphere of ignorance with foreign policy issues.

  77. Uzbek in the UK I do not consider that this country (it cannot be called a society and the democracy is illusory) which constantly wages offensive wars for resources and domination can be called ‘civilised’. I was born in WWII when my father’s generation fought against fascism. Where are we now 70 years on?

  78. Thanks Uzbek.

  79. Thanks for the link Fred I shared it on Facebook and created a thread on the Pink’Un here were they just removed a thread entitled ‘freedom of speech’.
    Barbara must be absolutely frozen by now.

    I’m also getting the 404 error message Mark G.

  80. Mark G 4.43

    I lost contact with Dimitri about 12 months ago. Our email correspondence was encrypted but came to an abrupt end. Things moved on and I have not tried since. If you do manage to establish contact, please let me know. He has an interesting history.

    My PGP key is available on Wikispooks here

  81. Thanks Wikispooks – Here is the Dimitri link again Nevermind in condensed form:

    Anthrax used against American senators to enforce the ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction Lie.

    Here Dimitri attempts to explain these long forgotten 2001 biological attacks using anthrax bacterium:

    N.B. The Ames strain of anthrax was developed in Britain at the Porton Down military establishment. Dr David Kelly who worked at Porton Down was fully aware of the ‘weapons grade’ anthrax we supplied to Saddam Hussein. Sadly that knowledge I believe ‘marked his card’ after he broke the ‘careless talk’ covenant, spoke to journalists and exposed the ‘dodgy dossier’ as the blatant lie it was.

  82. A modern-day folk-song: “Bugger the Bankers”

  83. Mark Golding, I’ve posted the ‘Anthrax Attacks’, which forms a very enlightening read, on a Dr David Kelly related site. Thanks.

  84. Which site John?

    btw Anthrax is very topical tonight if you have been watching Silent Witness. I did not see the first two parts but as a concert I was going to attend tonight was cancelled, I have been watching Part 3. Quite confusing when you don’t know what happened before!

    The title must be a play on the phrase – Truth is Stranger Than Fiction.

  85. I see from the credits that the forensic advisor is Dr Stuart Hamilton. He is the deputy chief forensic pathologust in the East Midlands Forensic Patholology Unit. A rather weird combination between BBC drama and the state forensic service? Would Dr Keith Simpson, famous for his meticulous work, have had similar involvements if he was around now?

  86. On Algeria, Hillary Clinton has been saying this –

    US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton told reporters that the “utmost care must be taken to preserve innocent life” in the handling of the crisis.

    No irony there then.

    She does not look a well woman. She had rather a greenish tinge unless it was the lighting.

  87. Excuse my typos in the previous comment on pathologists.



  88. Many of the regular commenters here believe in the rights of children and in the imperative need – duty – to protect children.

    This is evident from numerous posts in which : American drone attacks which indiscriminately kill children (and others) are, rightly, condemned; in connection with the Savile case, the sexual abuse of children has attracted much comment and the likely cover-up at different levels and in different ways has been vehemently denounced (to the point of naming the one or the other individual believed to have been involved); and the very existence of this thread and the dozens of posts it has attracted (not all O/T, of course)signals concern with the children of Uzbekistan.

    Curious, therefore, that no-one has felt impelled to mention (how about you, Mary, who likes mentioning so many faits divers..?), never mind condemn, the phenomenon of the sexual grooming and abuse of young, vulnerable girls by gangs of Asians, the latest of which is cureently standing trail at the Old Bailey for their activities in Oxford.

    I know that this particular offence isn’t one carried out by the Americans, or the great and the good on the UK, or for that matter by individuals with 182 company directorships, but would anyone nevertheless like to join me in expressing revulsion at the activities of these Asian gangs? Would anyone, I wonder, share my view that the perpetrators should, after they have served their sentences, be deported to the country(countries) whence they or their forefathers came so that they could practice their bestial predilections on young girls of their own country and religion?

  89. Mary, at 15h14 today, says that the UK cannot be considered a civilised country.

    In order for me and others to better evaluate her point of view, could Mary please name a country or two which she does consider civilised?

    Thanks in advance.

  90. Hi Craig,

    After reading your post, I felt I had to help spread the word…I hope you don’t mind. I wrote the following post after watching both video’s.

  91. sorry, Mary at 17h14 today.

  92. Would anyone, I wonder, share my view that the perpetrators should, after they have served their sentences, be deported to the country(countries) whence they or their forefathers came so that they could practice their bestial predilections on young girls of their own country and religion?

    Let me get this straight. You’d prefer it if sex-offenders (who happen to be Asian) are abusing young girls in their “forefathers” country rather than being kept under watch in the UK? Certainly fits with your previous sadistic tastes. Did you get a sexual thrill out of writing, “practice their bestial predilections on young girls”?

  93. Thanks for that Mark, what a tome,, I’ve started so I shall finish.
    Cameron is in a spin dryer. having cancelled his speech, they are still working on it, for the sake of unaccounted ongoing situations, he’s a bit of a chicken, me thinks, flustering when it counts.
    Hollande is using an incident, long planned, going by some Quilliam foundation ex terrorist’s statement, called Benaton, situated between Libya and Algeria, hundred of miles away from Mali, as his impetus to strike Mali’s AQM.

    Listening to Clinton’s babe tonight, everyone is interested in Mali, very interested, it has a lot of oil, gold and other minerals so it seems, a US/western magnet par excellence, anything to get away from the business of the devils derivatives.

    Western countries are like pirates, because their financial systems are winging it, are based on a big fat zero, might and power and bang over ownership and principled diplomacy, what a fuck up! when western leaders do not understand the word sustainable, are hell bent on carrying on with their psychopathic endeavours.

    Mark G., Bryzinski’s ‘the grand chess board’ the adopted and adapted guidelines of Ramsi Yousefs Boyinka plot methods have fooled humanity and western apathetic onlookers like us, we have been hoodwinked something rotten and WE should MEET!

    Or is it too late?

  94. @ Anon : do you always answer a question with a question? Cluck! Cluck! Cluck!

    PS – don’t condemn me, condemn the child groomers and abusers! Unless you secretly approve, of course….

  95. Habbabkuk,

    When the questions are as fucking stupid as yours are. Yes.

    I note you haven’t denied being a complete arsehole recently. I’ll have to take that as evidence you clearly believe you are.

  96. wow, Anon, I seem to have hit your G-spot, haven’t I?

    PS – some advice : never accept anything as “evidence” without checking it thoroughly, it saves you from making a fool of yourself.

  97. Habbabkuk

    Direct more shit like this at Mary (and no, I don’t know her) and yes, you’ll wind me up. Oh well at least your picking on me now and not Mary.

    (how about you, Mary, who likes mentioning so many faits divers..?), never mind condemn, the phenomenon of the sexual grooming and abuse of young, vulnerable girls

    Just stop it.

    never accept anything as “evidence” without checking it thoroughly,

    And that’s what I think this forum is all about. I’m surprised you haven’t noticed before.

  98. “You are picking on me” obviously.

  99. “In order for me and others to better evaluate her point of view, could Mary please name a country or two which she does consider civilised?”

    Well I don’t know about Mary but to my mind the countries which are most civilised are those which strive to live in peace with other countries, those that don’t go round firing hellfire missiles at innocent women and children. Countries like Iceland, Switzerland, Iran. Britain’s attacks on other countries for financial gain must put them well down the list, America must be near bottom.

    If the world is to become civilized then countries must live together in a civilized society, not use violence against each other, not steal from each other, not try to bully or intimidate each other and abide by the rule of law. If countries were people which would you consider most civilised, the ones that minded their own business or the ones that went out breaking into other people’s houses, stealing anything valuable, killing their children, raping their wives and then burning their house down?

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