I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.
However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.
Let’s be very clear, the Palestinians had their land stolen by Israel. Further land was deprived in recent times by the ‘wall’ grab and illegal Israeli settlements; Period.
History recalls the Arab League allowed Egypt and Jordon to hold land in trust until the Palestinian entity al-Kiyan al-Filastini was established by the League in 1964 to represent the Palestinian refugees as a race of people.
The Palestinian National Council met that same year in Jerusalem and established the PLO which gained legitimacy among the Palestinians after the defeat of the Arab armies by Israel in the 1967 war.
Ref: Israel Or Palestine? Is the Two-state Solution Already Dead?: Hasan Afif El-Hasan
Looks like Israel is gearing up for another war on Lebanon using the excuse of preventing Syrian chemical weapons being delivered to Hezbollah.
“Israeli warplanes have attacked a target on the Syrian-Lebanese border, according to unconfirmed reports, following several days of heightened warnings from government officials over Syria’s stockpiles of chemical weapons.
The deputy prime minister, Silvan Shalom, told Army Radio on Sunday: “If there will be a need, we will take action to prevent chemical weapons from being transferred to Islamic terror organisations. We are obligated to keep our eye on it at all times, in the event chemical weapons fall into Hezbollah’s hands.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/30/israeli-warplane-syria-lebanon-border
@ Mark Golding (13h20) : if what you say is correct (I’m not convinced by this “holding in trust business”), why did it take the Arab League between 1948 and 1964 to establish the Palestinian entity you refer to?
What happened between 1964 and 1967 (the Six Day War)?
Why did Jordan only formally renounce the West Bank some twenty years or so after the 1967 war?
The fact is that the West Bank was part of Jordan, and Jordan going to war against Israel in 1967 and ending up on the losing side gave Israel the perfect excuse to grab the land. It kept Jordanian land, not land belonging to a state called “Palestine”.
(BTW – is it not so that the West Bank is so called because between 1948 and 1967 it was for all practical purposes part of Jordan; the part of Jordan lying to the west of the River Jordan?)
Countries without declared borders are not UN States, so Israel walking out of UN meetings is not a big deal, they should not be a UN member at all.
As for Jordan’s territory, it is different to that of Palestine which was a British protectorate after the collapse of the Ottoman empire in 1920. Israel did not exist. So the whole of Palestine does belong to all Semites. As for the immigrants, flocking to Palestine in 1945/46, starting wars to annex Arab Land and parts of Jordan, these are not indigenous to the area and should be send home before indigenous Palestinians loose their birthrights and deeds to their land.
an oximoron really.
So when will Israel officially declare its borders and accept the international law of the high seas? when will it accept international laws governing the territorial waters of its neighbours and of Gaza?
When will it give the Golan back to Syria, the Sheeba farms and other occupied pieces of land it annexed and occupied?
When will it recognise that Jerusalem is part of Palestine and not for anybody to usurp abd build on?
The UN, on which Israel has impressed itself by slight of hand, not by legitimacy, is not a pick and mix bar one can chose from, but our world community speaking as one. Its laws are applicable to Israel as much as it would to Palestine.
This said, I’m for a one state solution that is organised, controlled and implemented on the ground by outside observers and countries, after a broad agreement is reached between these two parties.
So, there is no Israel, but there always was a Palestine.
I leave it to you to look up the UN decision 180 II from 1947.
Just do not think people on this forum are not informed of what the past and present has presented us with, we are!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_Israel
“Ben Franklin, 11:00 pm: “I kill plants” – So are you now the “spud gun preacher”?”
Hi Clark;
I have a black thumb, and sometimes wonder why I have such good connections with animals, but the Secret Life of Plants leaves me in mystery. I think they do better when I don’t coddle. I spend many times more than the market price of tomatoes, for the pleasure of eating a few small, but delicious runts.
So, you see; I need all the help I can get.
@ Nevermind (15h13) :
I’m quite sure that some people here are very well informed and am willing to accept your implicit claim that you belong to that fortunate group.
So willing, indeed, that I would ask you to be good enought to answer the questions I addressed to Mark Golding in my post of 14h26. Thank you in advance for your replies.
While you’re reflecting, could I also ask you to take note of the following two comments.
1/. the subject of my original post was not the non-declared frontiers of Israel. Hence that information, although no doubt welcome to some (I happened to know all of that already), is probably not really relevant to my point and certainly not to my questions to Mark Golding. Alles klar?
2/. Jordan became a sovereign, independent state in 1946. It took over, for all intents and purposes, what is now called “the West Bank” after the Israeli/Arab war of 1848/9. Hence just as the state of Israel did not exist before 1948, the Kingdom of Jordan as an independent state did not exist before 1946 and an independent state of Palestine did not exist after WW2 in part owing to the actions of Jordan.
By the way, I also tend in favour of a one state solution (with the international community keeping a very close and vigilant eye on the internal situationn of such a state°
Und jetzt sind Sie dran….
Habbabkuk
30 Jan, 2013 – 8:02 am
@ Villager (01h27) – I’ll deal with your Einstein quotation in due course and for the moment just thank you for your kind words of abuse.
Habbabkuk that’s a very Zen kind of answer for which i thank you. I do regret and therefore withdraw my remarks. I don’t like conflict of any kind so you’re right i am harmless.
Water under the bridge, as i see it.
V
No problem, Villager, but nice of you to write!
Let’s store up some energy for future…. conflicts…whoops!…discussions. 🙂
Informative and sad Video..of the Karimov cotton crimes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZ9yV9l50k
Who’s Court is the Ball in?
Between 11 and 15 January, four young Palestinians — aged 17 to 22 — were shot dead by Israeli occupation forces. The murders took place in the Gaza Strip and at different points along Israel’s wall in the West Bank. In all instances the Israeli army justified the use of lethal force by invoking its need to protect the integrity of the wall and Israel’s borders.
On 11 January this year, 22-year-old Anwar Mamlouk was reportedly just outside the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza when Israeli soldiers gunned him down.
The next day, Odai al-Darawish, 21, was shot to death at three o’clock in the afternoon while crossing Israel’s wall in the West Bank to get to work in Israel. Initially, Israeli sources claimed the soldiers shot al-Darawish in his legs, in accordance with the “rules of engagement” (“Israeli troops kill Palestinian trying to cross barrier,”
The Chicago Tribune, 12 January 2013.
Medical sources quickly revealed that he was hit in the back, indicating that he was likely shot while trying to run to safety (“Israeli forces shoot, kill worker south of Hebron,”
Ma’an News Agency, 12 January 2013.
Al-Darawish was from the village of Dura, near Hebron, where in September last year a man attempted to immolate himself in a desperate protest of the dire economic conditions Palestinians face in the occupied West Bank (“Palestinian man attempts to set himself on fire in West Bank village of Dura,”
Haaretz, 17 January 2013).
Mustafa Jarad was aged 21 and a farmer from Beit Lahiya in the northern Gaza Strip. He was shot in the forehead by an Israeli sniper on 14 January while working his land. But despite the Israeli gunman’s skillful marksmanship, Jarad was not killed immediately.
Doctors at al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City tried to remove the bullet from his severely injured brain, but Jarad died after surgery (“Mustafa Abu Jarad, murdered in Gaza, by the Israeli army,”
International Solidarity Movement, 15 January 2013).
Shooting a schoolboy
On 14 January, Samir Awad, a 17-year-old from Budrus, a West Bank village located near Ramallah, was shot from behind in the head, torso and leg while running away from soldiers.
Samir had just completed his last exam before school break and had joined a group of boys to protest the wall. Samir’s family has lost five acres of land with 3,000 olive trees due to the construction of Israel’s wall; Samir had also been jailed three times for his participation in demonstrations (“Israeli forces shot youth in the back as he ran away, say Palestinians,”
Guardian, 15 January 2013).
Countless incursions, demolitions and violence that Israel perpetrates against Palestinians every week go UNREPORTED
“Weekly report on Israeli human rights violations in the occupied Palestinian territory,”
Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, 10 January 2013).
Deferring to Israel
The sadness and despair of these kids families is compounded because the MSM and the BBC are deferred to Israeli military sources to report on the deaths. The result is that their readers are told that Israeli soldiers followed the proper protocol to protect Israel’s sovereignty and borders.
As for borders, it’s exceedingly likely that the grief-stricken parents of the slain youths would love to see the existence of any kind of boundary on Israel that might protect their children from the presence of a threatening, violent and usurping entity.
Charlotte Silver reporting from Gaza
Now this is interesting. Habby at 7.22 29 Jan opines
“Nothing to do with the quotation from Avram Shalom, ThatCrab. Directors of Shin Bet are not stupid people and of course he wouldn’t have equated what happened/is happening to the Palestinians with what happened to the Jews. Because it can’t be.”
Yet immediately I posted the quotation of Shalom’s Habby invoked the holocaust strawman.
Funnily enough Habby invoked the holocaust strawman again when I was merely pointing out Rabbi Sacks hypocrisy and humbug over the Palestinian plight and his naive account of what he termed normal warfare.
He still hasn’t apologised to Mary for that error either.
But you can see the pattern. There’s nothing genuine about habby. Quite the little twister indeed.
It’s worth adding too that I didn’t equate Shalom’s statement with the holocaust itself. I thought he was talking about everything up to but excluding the holocaust. I could be wrong though and Shalom will be more aware of long term Israeli policy. We could call this the lower level case.
But habby and those who seek to excuse Israeli crimes always invoke the holocaust when they feel they’re losing an argument.
I think it’s interesting too the treatment of David Ward MP when he compared the Israelis to Nazis against Gerald Kaufman’s similar argument a few years ago and how that was downplayed.
I certainly think there is a strong argument that Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians amounts to a slow motion holocaust carried out over many years and the ultimate goal of ethnic cleansing is certainly there. All actions point to it. It’s pure humbug to play down a holocaust which takes place over many years to one which is enacted over a few years. We could call this the higher level case.
“2/. Jordan became a sovereign, independent state in 1946. It took over, for all intents and purposes, what is now called “the West Bank” after the Israeli/Arab war of 1848/9. Hence just as the state of Israel did not exist before 1948, the Kingdom of Jordan as an independent state did not exist before 1946 and an independent state of Palestine did not exist after WW2 in part owing to the actions of Jordan.”
I’m well aware that the Hashemite Kingdom was not established until the British left , with haste, as they had enough of finding their soldiers dead in barbed wire and their officers bombed by the terrorists of Irgun. Taking on too much and letting others decide their own future, by giving them arms and supporting their every move was the order of the day, was it not? Czechoslovakian and British arms ripped British bodies apart and all they could do is walk out.
‘Und jezt sind Sie dran.’
Aber natuerlich, Opa.
It was the lack of will to manage Palestine that has brought about the shame we see today, but then the home front was calcified by the excesses of WW2, busy with exterminating the returning German soldiers by shoving them in holes in Flanders, emaciated bodies digging their own graves. Try find that info on google.
“By the way, I also tend in favour of a one state solution (with the international community keeping a very close and vigilant eye on the internal situation of such a state°”
A laudable stance. A two state solution will only perpetuate the current situation. A new agenda will involve moderate Palestinians such as Marwan Barghouti, as well as Hamas, but he’s in prison, when he should be sitting at the table facing Netanyahu and his settler fascist.
Israel now bombing Syria
Two site workers have been killed and five others wounded in an Israeli airstrike on a military research center in Jamraya, northwest of the capital Damascus, the Syrian military says.
Forgot to link for above
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/30/286445/israeli-airstrike-kills-2-in-syria/
The Israeli boycott of the human rights review is the first state in history to do so.
http://rt.com/news/israel-human-rights-boycott-032/
We could do with a new thread on the Middle East don’t you think?
Two views from pro- Palistinian supporters on the timing of the criticism of Israel near Holocaust Memorial Day:
On Holocaust Memorial Day another shred of truth made it into The Times – a cartoon, by Gerald Scarfe, depicting Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu building a brick wall containing the blood and limbs of Palestinians, just as Britain was preparing itself to commemorate the Shoa.
The notorious ultra Zionist Board of Deputies of British Jews was outraged. It insisted that the cartoon was “shockingly reminiscent of the blood libel imagery more usually found in parts of the virulently anti-Semitic Arab press”. Obviously it isn’t. The cartoon doesn’t refer to ‘the Jews’ or ‘The Jew’, it actually points at a specific brutal person who happens to be a war criminal as well as the Israeli PM. Moreover, the cartoon depicts the true reality of the Palestinians. I guess that the Board of Deputies must be convinced that Israel and its politicians are beyond criticism, exactly what you would expect from a Jewish supremacist organisation.
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/holocaust-day-backfires.html#entry32711183
Ward’s condemnation of ‘the Jews’ is a gross error on every level. Many Jews are not Zionists – religious and secular – and most Zionists are not Jews, indeed many like the crazed Christian fundamentalists of the US bible belt don’t even like Jews. Ward should have said that a state claiming to be ‘the state of the Jews’ is a blasphemy against the Book and a political monstrosity, heaping endless misery on the Palestinian people whose land they stole, expelling them to wander the earth.
http://www.votegeorgegalloway.com/2013/01/why-david-ward-was-wrong.html#more
@ Nevermind : was that supposed to be an answer to my questions of 14h46?
Dein Opa
PS – quite a bloodthirsty 2nd para, wasn’t it. But nothing to what the Russkies did to your lot in Berlin, eh?
The LibDems’ Basil Fawlty moment.
“Don’t mention the Jews”.
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/101172/david-ward-formally-censured-lib-dems-over-jews-and-holocaust-slur
Something for the “”Here’s something interesting” file:
“It’s worth adding that I didn’t equate Shalom’s statement with the holocaust itself. I thought he was talking about everything up to but excluding the holocaust”
Yeah, sure. Which of course is why you triumphantly posted it? And now it’s come back to smack you in the face you’re backing off. 🙂
And certainly not trying to excuse Israeli crimes, just trying – obviously in vain – to stop people making fools of themselves and giving the Israelis easy opportunities to de-credibilise thier critics. Think about it.
Habby
I didn’t think he was talking about the holocaust.
You’ve now revealed that you didn’t think that either.
So when you invoked the holcaust strawman you were lying, as you were lying when you invoked the holocaust over the errors you made in the Sacks case.
It’s very straightforward. That doesn’t mean that you won’t attempt to twist it, of course, but readers can now see from the evidence above that that’s precisely what you’re about.
By the way, you still haven’t apologised to Mary for your error. Why’s that, eh?
The BBC condone the bombing by Israel of another country and killing and wounding by repeating comments from some unnamed and probably invented sources.
‘BBC Middle East correspondent Wyre Davies says none of the reports can be verified, although some well-placed diplomats and military sources say they would not be surprised if Israel had acted, given the recent instability in Syria.’
30 January 2013 Last updated at 21:54
Syria ‘confirms’ Israeli air strike near Lebanon border
Israel fears Syrian arms may fall into Hezbollah’s hands, and has strengthened its northern defences
The Syrian military has confirmed that Israeli jets have carried out an air strike on its territory, but denied reports that lorries carrying weapons bound for Lebanon were hit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21269766#
In a clandestine joint operation and acting on intelligence gained from SAS style incursions into Jamraya end 2012, Israeli warplanes violating Syrian airspace. In contact with ‘mercenary’ ground units, the Israeli jets snaked stealthily over the sea of Galilee on a track towards Damascus approaching from the north of Mount Hermon (Al-Sheikh Mountain), flying at low altitude and below radars, on a heading to Jamraya in the Damascus countryside where a branch of a scientific research centre was attacked, killing several workers and wounding staff.
This atrocity is a heads-up, time for Iran to assume NBCD State 1 Condition Zulu!
In a clandestine joint operation and acting on intelligence gained from SAS style incursions into Jamraya end 2012, Israeli warplanes violating Syrian airspace. In contact with ‘mercenary’ ground units, the Israeli jets snaked stealthily over the sea of Galilee on a track towards Damascus approaching from the north of Mount Hermon (Al-Sheikh Mountain), flying at low altitude and below radars, on a heading to Jamraya in the Damascus countryside where a branch of a scientific research centre was attacked, killing several workers and wounding staff.
This atrocity is a heads-up, time for Iran to assume NBCD State 1 Condition Zulu!!
Marik; Are you saying the Iranians should deploy anti-ship missiles?
http://217.171.110.31/members_memories/3448/homelogin.asp
lol -I guess it means get ready for enemy aircraft type F-15I and F-16I supplied from USA , equipped with Israeli avionics and additional fuel tanks – tailor-made for long-range strike missions.
A number of amateur radio spotter ‘hams’ in Iraq and North Iraq could be activated to provide warning unless of course the Israeli fighters take a southern route over Saudi airspace.
OK, Mark. Tried to decode the encryption from your comment as best as I could. 🙂
“Over the past week, Israeli officials have expressed increased concern with regard to the situation in Syria. On Sunday, Israel deployed Iron Dome batteries in the north, including near Haifa, although an IDF spokesman said the deployment was “not related to any current situation assessments.”
The following day, Israel’s National Security Council head Yaakov Amidror was sent to Moscow for a “lightning visit” in an attempt “to convince the Kremlin to take steps to prevent Syria’s stockpiles from falling into the hands of terrorist groups.” On the same day, the New York Times reported that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “had [recently] been in marathon meetings for several days with military and intelligence chiefs and senior ministers, with unusual strictures on secrecy.”
On Tuesday, Al-Monitor reported that IDF intelligence chief Maj. Gen. Aviv Kochavi was meeting with officials at the Pentagon, including Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey.
Also on Tuesday, the Commander of the Israeli Air Force, Major General Amir Eshel, said that “[t]he weakening governance in neighboring countries heralds greater exposure to hostile activity – Syria is the best example of that. We must deal with a wider array of enemies and adversaries than ever.” Eshel added: “We work every day in order to lessen the immediate threats, to create better conditions so that we will be victorious in future wars.”
He also warned that “[i]f a threat appears in the long, medium or short range, the Israel Air Force has the ability to exercise force almost instantly, and [implement] almost unlimited options at almost any location.”
Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/01/israeli_reportedly_s.php#ixzz2JWcggCqb
No criticism for this illegal act of war, just a matter of fact Guardian piece of IDF propaganda as if from the mouth of Liebovitz or Regev.
Israeli warplanes carry out air strike on Syria
Attack confirmed by Syrian regime comes after Israel aired suspicions of weapons convoys heading to Lebanon
Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Thursday 31 January 2013
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/30/israeli-warplane-syria-lebanon-border
Yet in Jekyll and Hyde style, she reports this use of live fire by the IDF which has killed five young Palestinians in the last four weeks, although the headline which contains the phrase ‘raise concern’ is appalling and outrageous.
Palestinian deaths raise concern over Israeli army use of live fire
At least five young unarmed people shot by soldiers despite rules permitting live fire only in extreme circumstances
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/28/palestinian-deaths-israel-army-live-fire?CMP=twt_gu
As I keep saying, Israel knows no law.