The Official Tsarnaev Story Makes No Sense

by craig on April 22, 2013 11:35 am in Uncategorized

There are gaping holes in the official story of the Boston bombings.

We are asked to believe that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was identified by the Russian government as an extremist Dagestani or Chechen Islamist terrorist, and they were so concerned about it that in late 2010 they asked the US government to take action. At that time, the US and Russia did not normally have a security cooperation relationship over the Caucasus, particularly following the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008. For the Russians to ask the Americans for assistance, Tsarnaev must have been high on their list of worries.

In early 2011 the FBI interview Tsarnaev and trawl his papers and computers but apparently – remarkably for somebody allegedly radicalised by internet – the habitually paranoid FBI find nothing of concern.

So far, so weird. But now this gets utterly incredible. In 2012 Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who is of such concern to Russian security, is able to fly to Russia and pass through the airport security checks of the world’s most thoroughly and brutally efficient security services without being picked up. He is then able to proceed to Dagestan – right at the heart of the world’s heaviest military occupation and the world’s most far reaching secret police surveillance – again without being intercepted, and he is able there to go through some form of terror training or further Islamist indoctrination. He then flies out again without any intervention by the Russian security services.

That is the official story and I have no doubt it did not happen. I know Russia and I know the Russian security services. Whatever else they may be, they are extremely well-equipped, experienced and efficient and embedded into a social fabric accustomed to cooperation with their mastery. This scenario is simply impossible in the real world.

We have, by the official account, the involvement of the two Tsarnaev brothers, the FBI and the Russian security services. The FBI have a massive recent record of running agent provocateur operations to entrap gullible Muslims into terrorism. The Russian security services have form on false flag Chechen bombings. Where the truth lies may be difficult to dig out. But the above official version is not true.

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344 Comments

  1. Notwithstanding the conspiracy theories, given the countless billions spent around the world on ‘Homeland Security’ since 9/11, the Tsarnaev story looks neither good nor credible.

  2. A bit like WMD’s, perhaps?

    “Further, the process of transformation,
    even if it brings revolutionary change, is
    likely to be a long one, absent some
    catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
    new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and
    industrial policy will shape the pace and
    content of transformation as much as the
    requirements of current missions.”

    PNAC (Neocon thinktank instrumental in Gulf 2 and very close to Israeli movers and shakers):
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

  3. Unbelievable fakery in the whole thing. Without going into all of the photolinks it can be seen that the site of the blast area was virtually fenced off before the incident and – when the smoke cleared – there suddenly appeared all of these casualties. The most prominent was the guy who lost 2 legs. Amazingly, he not only survived this trauma without treatment for over 30 minutes, but they decided not to put him in an ambulance and instead to wheel him past the press in a wheelchair. No blood loss apparent and his lips and face show nary a sign of trauma. Those interested might care to Google amputee actors, known to be used by the military to authenticate trauma situations during training. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/pictures-that-prove-double-amputee-was-an-actor-at-boston-bombings-2626684.html

  4. unseenfootage

    22 Apr, 2013 - 12:31 pm

    We are informed that the FBI has informants in every mosque in America and even the Imams are compliant. It is quite surprising that the FBI allegedly had no knowledge that Tamerlan had disrupted the Friday sermon with “extremist” rhetoric at a Boston Mosque.

    Even more surprising is that they had to appeal to the public to identify who him and his brother were, when all the while, they had interviewed him at least once according to their admission and on several occasions according to the mother.

  5. I disagree with the mischaracterisation of the Russian ‘invasion’ of Georgia; quite apart from the will of people concerned to remain part of Russia, South Ossetia was only administratively part of Georgia as a bureaucratic convenience, lumped in during the creation of these assorted Soviet Socialist Republics, and Sakhashvilli was a US/Western puppet New Yorker, ‘friend of Miliband’. I wonder where Sakashvilli’s ragbag mercenary army, with overt US, British and Israeli arms and training are nowadays, and what they are up to? Posing as Syrians maybe? It never ceases to amaze how these tooled-up rent-a-jihad, private security, hired killer types so easily jetset around the globe, criss-cross borders and generally gallivant unhindered.

  6. Gideon

    But legs blown off in warfare do not bleed as profusely as you would expect; evidently the arteries somehow close off. Otherwise the very many survivors such as Nelson or Henry Paget, would very quickly bleed to death. To believe the bombings themselves were fake you would have to believe hundreds of eyewitnesses and medical staff were complicit. I do not countenance that.

  7. Cryptonym,

    The Stalin created borders of Soviet republics are indeed highly illogical, as are very many colonial borders. But nonetheless that Russia invaded Georgia is undeniable. You make a claim of justification; quite another question. In fact it was all about superpower politics and the oil and gas pipeline route from Central Asia and the Caspian; the idea that Putin had a deep personal concern for the problems of the people of South Ossetia is risible.

  8. Craig, I agree. And I heard stories from a nurse on the hospital ship in the Falklands about men returning from battle with their arms blown off who were still laughing and joking because of the battle-inspired endorphins (which, by the way, you might not find in a sudden, unexpected explosion). But they were still white as a sheet, which this man clearly is not. For the full ‘real-time’ exposure of the fake photographs see: http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1602&sid=131932edfd90a3b3b7140c793aeffe91

  9. How about the fact that there was a bomb drill during the marathon? There were private military contractors at the event (quite well kitted out it seems, even had a radiation survey meter). Also how was Dzhokhar able to stand out of the boat after suffering a massive neck injury? http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/20/article-2311443-1965519A000005DC-483_964x542.jpg

    There is security cam footage that is being withheld that would shed some light on the event too.

    All too convenient i’m afraid, and that’s not even the whole story.

  10. And, by the way, why did they not put him in a stretcher or an ambulance but instead wheel him past the press at the finishing line guided by the phony cowboy?

  11. Oh God..not another conspiracy theory..I thought we had enough with 9-11 !

  12. Forgot to add – to provide hundreds of eyewitnesses. No conspiracy here Frazer, just a healthy regard for the observed facts, without slavish bowing to our political masters who term all critical thinking as ‘conspiracy theory’ to keep the unthinking plebs just that way.

  13. Didn’t think the double amputee in the pics looked exactly on top of the world, myself. If I’d seen him in the street, with or without legs, I would probably asked him if I could help… You might try telling some Bostonians that their relatives were professional false-flag operatives, though. I think their reaction would convince you of the contrary.

    But “why?” is an altogether different question. Theory: the objection that the Chechens should have nothing against the US, as their enemy is Russia, would be called into question if Tsarnaev were involved with Imarat Kavkaz – proscribed by both the US and Russia and allegedly linked to AQ (whatever that is). IK is represented across the region, including Dagestan.

  14. @ Frazer,

    Many who want to discredit the asking of reasonable and logical questions about the official version of a story making national – and/or – international news have a tendency to use the phrase “conspiracy theory” to discredit either the questions being asked or the questioner.
    While some persons make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims through leaps of logic – this want of logical thought – surely cuts both ways. Those supporting the official narrative and those questioning or opposing the official story line can both be flawed by way of being flawed in their logic. This, would be more to the point, once one examines quite clearly and logically a version of a story might through such examination be ascertained to stand or fall, regardless of whichever side of the status quo one is more inclined to be on.
    With the foregoing thoughts in mind, I repeat my line of thinking at present – until someone demolishes my line of reasoning or replaces the view I have formed with something more logical, more consistent with the facts that will project “truth” into the events surrounding the Boston bombing.
    I observe and comment – thus:-
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/boston-suspect-arrested-stripped-naked-so-when-was-he-shot-and-killed/5332316
    A. One brother, in the video is told come out of the car and strip naked – which he does.
    B. He is taken naked into custody and is arrested.
    C. Next, we hear in the mainstream media of a shoot-out and that he is shot dead.
    We have A and B on the video – so by what credible and logical process of reasoning do we ever arrive at “C”?
    So, further, without conjecture.

    A. There are two(2) brothers – and these have been the focal point of attention as the mass media has been reminding us ever since the Boston bombing.
    B. We remove one brother from the equation (i.e. since he is arrested – in custody – no longer a threat). So – we get to:-

    C. That leaves one (1) brother we know to have been shot ( under what circumstances we have yet to ascertain – but he is shot and is still in a serious condition). So, we can all reason that what we saw on the video footage was footage of the one that was killed – not the one shot and placed in a serious condition.

    Surely, if a man is already in custody and alive – then when he is shot – under what circumstances can such a shooting and killing of a man who already had stripped naked be justified homicide?

    Simple questions inviting comments and/or answers from all.
    CB

  15. Komodo

    But accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK – it would be impossible for him, already on the Russian security services lists to the extent that they had contacted the US authorities about him, to swan in to Russia and travel down to Dagestan to see IK. Just couldn’t happen. I know someone who was picked up arriving at St Petersburg airport because of an allegation that her husband had stolen a car in Kazakhstan eleven years previously – took her six weeks to get out of a very very unpleasant detention.

  16. Blowing up two bombs at the Boston Marathon and killing 3 people and maiming 170 more people makes no sense.

  17. Courtenay

    Wow, that video is extremely troubling – but I find suggestions on the internet it is not one of the Tsarnaevs and an unconnected incident.

  18. Will this make any of the Lemming Folk think outside the box?

    http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/events_n-497×640.jpg

  19. I had a rather chilling thought, even before reading this post. It strikes me that the security services of various countries have much, much more in common with each other than they do their own people, even if these security services are nominally representing enemy states. So Putin’s mob may well have areas of interest with … well, whoever is in charge in the US. You know, business links, social links, a general interest in keeping matters … doublespeak calm. That kind of thing.

    Not a pleasant thought for the evening, for sure.

    Also, the official version is never true. This is becoming, for me, somewhat axiomatic: we are always lied to, and this is just accepted as how things should be. It’s just kinda routine now, maybe it always was.

  20. Craig and Komodo. I do think that you are both off track in discussing the political implications of the supposed patsies. This was a pure FBI set-up with, no doubt, several patsies involved. Somehow it went wrong when the Saudi patsy was dismissed so they changed it to the brothers whom they also had on their list. There is no evidence whatsoever that these two brothers were involved. Putin might have been tempted to play along with the Chechian connection to embarrass the Americans over CIA support, but this whole thing is just a smokescreen for yet another FBI-instigated terror event to test police lockdowns etc. And, Komodo, of course the amputee looked pretty unwell – he is a professional actor.

  21. “somebody allegedly radicalised by internet”

    “accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK”

    Where does this notion that the brothers were ‘radicalised’ muslims come from and what’s the evidence? According to the BBC:

    “Russian news agency RIA Novosti says “extremist material” was on the YouTube account belonging to Tamerlan.

    “The BBC has been unable to confirm the information about material on the page.

    “Several albums were posted, one of them titled ‘Terrorist’. The album contains two video clips, which are inaccessible, because the account linked to them has been removed”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22219116

  22. Murray sounds like a real fruitcake.

    Murray separated from his first wife, Fiona after starting a relationship with Nadira Alieva, an Uzbek woman whom he met in a lapdancing club in Tashkent.

    On 21 August 2003 he was confronted with 18 charges. These included “hiring dolly birds [pretty young women] for above the usual rate” for the visa department, though he claims that the department had an all-male staff, and granting UK visas in exchange for sex.

  23. Lacked time to look into this and all the material mentioned in it, but coming from Sibel Edmonds it may well deserve very serious attention: http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/04/19/usa-the-creator-sustainer-of-chechen-terrorism/

  24. MJ

    Yes. “Allegedly” and “Accepting for a moment” are intended to indicate the same scepticism.

  25. So they put forward the theory that a young moslem could have been ‘radicalised’ by following jihadi websites etc. , but what about being the subject of ‘anti-terrorist interview’ ?
    The drive towards more and more anti-terrorist action may itself be a
    source of radicalisation.
    What would have happened if the FBI had just skipped their interview?

  26. @ Mryulop. Please fuck off.

  27. @ mryuiop,

    “Murray separated from his first wife, Fiona after starting a relationship with Nadira Alieva, an Uzbek woman whom he met in a lapdancing club in Tashkent.”

    Is that as low as you can go – or is there a lower personal level of personal attack that you can sink to?

    I too must be another “fruit cake” as you term it – having myself gone out clubbing with the boys, and having had a divorce. Is that all it takes to destroy a man by reference to his human history and the errors of judgments that some of us men do make?

    So – as I understand your reasoning -a man is acquitted of charges – but on the same man’s blog – under your jurisdiction – you find him “guilty”.

    Pathetic commentary on your part.

  28. mryuiop: you forgot to mention that Craig was subsequently cleared of all charges.

  29. Mryulop,

    Predictably you fail to mention that Craig Murray was subsequently cleared of all charges.

    Do try and keep up.

  30. As has been said Frazer
    22 Apr, 2013 – 1:06 pm – the US Government created a conspiracy theory regarding 9/11 that was swallowed by world opinion hook line and sinker. It has now been conclusively proved in ALL RESPECTS to be lies yet those who have uncovered the truth (in as far as it is possible) have been labelled “con·spir·a·cist”.

  31. OT – User Blocking Script

    After a bit of fiddling around I have made a very basic user script that allows people to block/ignore other posters. It’s still very rough, but the basic functionality is there. Under each nickname is a button to block/unblock comments. Blocked comments are not visible but the posters username is still in place, but greyed out a bit. If you really want to waggle a loose tooth, you can click on the blocked users icon and their posts will be visible until next page load. It does show all their posts, so the page may scroll down a bit.

    I have added a few visual tweaks, so the comments look a little prettier. I also fixed a css bug so that long nicknames no longer cause comment boxes to drop down a few rows.

    For the paranoid and technically inclined, sorry I was feeling lazy so I have included a call for jquery from google. However it is only called once before being cached (and I don’t believe google can associate the call with this site as it is being called by my external script).

    Feel free to make any suggestions/requests and I will look into it. If people want to improve on it, please go nuts. It’s all very rough and none too pretty, but it gets the job done. I will probably be making some improvements of my own when I have a little more time.

    – Install Instructions

    You can find the script at http://freetexthost.com/u32z3v6lxg
    You just need to copy the entire text (excluding the view count etc) and then follow the browser specific instructions below.

    Firefox Users: First install the add-on ‘Greasemonkey’. Click the small arrow next to the ‘Greasemonkey’ icon on the toolbar and select ‘New User Script’. Now click ‘Use Script from clipboard’. (NOTE, the script must already be copied as in copy/paste when you click ‘New User Script’ or the option to paste will not be visible in the next screen) Close the new window and your done.

    Chrome: Install Install the extension ‘Tampermonkey’. Click the ‘Tampermonkey’ icon in the toolbar and select ‘Add a new script’. In the ‘Editor’ window, remove the 10 example lines of code and copy/paste my script in its place. Now click ‘Save’. Done.

    IE: Bad Luck

  32. Adrian Haburkuk (age 7yrs 5months and tree weecs)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 2:39 pm

    My Dad is too busy with the next crushing entry on the LSE/North Korea thread so I’ll just have to stand in and demollish the tin-hat brigade myself.

    We get so tird of all these constant conspirucy types (Espeshully Mary who is under the quaynt impreshun that prodoosing evidence has got sumthing to do with trying to get the story right).

    Acording to these rather naeeve woolly-hatted intellechewls, every official narrative is always taylored by finanshul and military eleets towards the end of keeping public frigtened and, subdood and willing to axept increasing militarization, internal represhun, privatizashun and indettidness.

    And every time, all they have to contribewt to undurstanding an ishoe is evidence and lodgic. That’s SO predictuble and BORING.

    My Dad says these people will probly soon start to queschun why the media editors have all but ignord the Waco explojun story, while simultaneeusly giving brethless blanket covrage of the events in Boston. Then the rusty cogs of their amater investigashun will creek into life and, Hey Ho, more evidence and lojic landing here for us to clean up.

    I feel so sory for them. When will they realize that much more powerful brains than theirs have dificult and painfull decisjuns to make. They carry the heavy responsibiluty of protekting all of us from our enemies. By diging and poking at every explanashun in the meedia they do the enemy’s work for them.

    These photos clearly show superfishul damage at Waco.

    http://ph.search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Ar5GRdYFc38O7N_OoBeW8BZUnMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTBoZXBvYzBnBHNlYwNVSCBTZWFyY2ggMTAw;_ylg=X3oDMTJtazdnZmduBGludGwDcGgEbGFuZwNlbi1waARwc3RhaWQDYzU2OGMyMGQtNmEyNS0zMTQ0LWIwYmYtNzY5ZWM2MzJkY2FkBHBzdGNhdAMxcGhvdG8EcHQDMXBob3Rv?p=waco+fertilizer+explosion+images&fr=ush-globalnews

    (Admit it you’re impressed with the size of my link, aren’t you?)

    My dad says there’s nothing here that a quick lik of paynt would’nt sort out in an afturnoon. Only a mad-man would claim that windows shatured 11 kilomeeters away. And they would be totally irrisponsible if they started to ask about the safty of the 44 other fertilliser plants and thowsands of commershull stockpiles of ammonionimum nitrate scatured threw-out the US. It woud be in such poor tayst to ask what corzes the most trawma, a fertiliser detonashun caused by deeregulation and poor safety culcher or one caused delibritly by terrurists. With this kind of thing people might even ask if they need terurrists at all when they have corparayshuns.

  33. I’m not convinced that the official story is not true.

    Certainly, the Russians wouldn’t want any radical getting up to no good on home turf, but there is value in following suspects to see who they associate with and what they might be planning. If the Russians thought that Tsarnaev was planning on doing harm in the US, they might have allowed it for the PR value and consequent US sympathy. But where is the evidence? There are many explanations for how people can get away with what they do. Incompetence, laziness, indifference, stupidity and corruption help. While plausible speculation is fun and entertaining, you still can’t build a solid case out of it.

  34. Info gathered from elsewhere. Some points that puzzle me.

    Who are all the people in the bombing photos who appear to be members of Craft International (Blackwater type company). Why cannot they be mentioned in tv coverage? See http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA

    Who robbed the 7-11 to attract police to suspects? First we were told it was the suspects now we are told it was some other random armed robbers who happened to turn up at same time. Oh yeah? Did armed robbers kill policeman not suspects?

    Who is/are the Saudi national/nationals that cannot be mentioned either.

    Why did Suspect2 2 wear his white cap back backwards thus ensuring his identification.

    Is the woman in this pic wearing sunglasses standing next to the kid who lost his life the same woman seen in this pic http://i.imgur.com/CbotmNk.jpg
    If so how did she get there uninjured?

    Who was the original suspect they had and then they said they didn’t have? Was he the mysterious Saudi national.

    The FBI hostage rescue team arrived just in the nick of time to prevent the assassination of suspect #2 as assets on scene were about to burn him alive. Those listening on police scanner heard “We have a conflict of plans we need to resolve immediately. We have orders from the top to go for negotiation.” And the kill team was called off just at the very last moment.

    Had the brothers been recruited by “friendly forces”. If so were they double agents? Were they set up?

    Lockdown of Boston.

    Were authorities0 looking for other players? Possibly trying to cover-up/distract/assure desired outcome? – maybe committed 7-11 robbery to draw police attention in direction of suspects?

    If anything like that suspected then lockdown severely restricts their abilities to operate as well.

  35. And – from the official story – what, precisely, is the evidence that these 2 boys were involved in any way?

  36. Is the woman in this pic wearing sunglasses standing next to the kid who lost his life the same woman seen in this pic http://i.imgur.com/CbotmNk.jpg
    If so how did she get there uninjured

    Second pic was http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/thelede/posts/suspect-number-2.JPG

  37. @ Craig
    “Wow, that video is extremely troubling – but I find suggestions on the internet it is not one of the Tsarnaevs and an unconnected incident”
    At this point, I can but comment as follows:-
    1. The person being arrested does look like Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    2. If the arrest was related to a different and unconnected incident – then that “different incident” would still have coincided with the very period of the bombing, and since Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a suspect, it would be an odd arrest that would have arrested another and not Tamerlan Tsarnaev himself pertaining to another incident occasioned at or around the same time of the bombing.
    3. Surely, the journalist is clearly there in the video speaking directly to his eye witness account of events that pertain directly to the post-bombing search for suspects.
    4. The video appeared on CNN and seems to be projecting to the public the arrest of Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
    See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS8CAUFFSMU – the next video mentions CNN retracting the earlier information announcing that a suspect was arrested:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJbNdY4c18E
    The retraction would be consistent with an attempt to find a new narrative once independent observers started posting youtube videos that either directly challenged and/or questioned the official mainstream media’s version.
    And here is another mainstream media video of someone ( Tsarnaev ?) on his stomach lying flat on the roadway. Can we now begin to piece the original dead Tsarnaev together and link to the man subsequently ( Tsarnaev ?) lying flat and come up with a credible narrative to make the official sequence of events ever fit logically together?:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixvDUaMDPko

    Where is the solid case so far built out of the public information that has been disseminated about the brothers?
    CB

  38. Note this from DEBKA (Israeli source note).

    http://www.debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-double-agents-who-decoyed-US-into-terror-trap

    Definitely more to this than meets eye.

  39. It has been suggested elsewhere that there is a clue in this article and photos http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312281/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-EXCLUSIVE-Family-Boston-Marathon-bombers-widow-Katherine-Russell-puts-Rhode-Island-home-sale-day-police-shot-son-law-dead.html

    If the suggestion is true then it is astonishing. Anyone else notice an extra connection? Possibly it is nonsense so I won’t mention the suggested additional connection. Just wondering if anyone else spots the same thing pointed out elsewhere without prompting.

  40. resident dissident

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:12 pm

    I think Craig is making the assumption that the FSB are in full control of events in Dagestan and Chechenya when there is much evidence saying otherwise. It would be interesting to know what route Tsarnaev took to arrive in Dagestan for his six month holiday – but even then I think Craig is a little out of date if you don’t think there are ways around security even at the major Russian airports.

    While I have little time for Putin and his colleagues, and I wouldn’t deny that he is above false flag operations, I very much doubt that he would take the risk of setting off bombs at the Boston Marathon or turning a blind eye while someone else does. As a former KGB officer and head he would probably have a pretty good idea of the depth of the FBI investigation would follow – and of the consequences that would follow if his or the FSB’s fingerprints were to be found anywhere near. Lets just say that the sh**storm that would follow would make the Livinenko affair pale into insignificance (and given the effort that has been made by the Russians to recover from that I very much doubt that Putin would have the appetite for a considerably larger repeat performance) and I suspect that Putin would also be extremely wary of the likely damage to his financial interests and those of his friends.

    There is no denying that that Putin is quite capable of despotic behaviour when it suits him – but there perhaps needs to be some recognition that he is far from being the only despot operating in the Caucuses at the present – there is plenty oif evidence that there is plenty of Islamist inspired terrorism as well as the Russian variety. I would recommend Tolstoy’s Hadji Murat if anyone needs evidence that this clash of two despotisms has been going on for rather a long time now.

  41. @CheebaCow
    22 Apr, 2013 – 2:39 pm

    Thank you! I’ve applied that in Firefox.

  42. FFS! How many more times? Debka.com is a disinformation site, renowned in song and story. If it told me the earth went round the sun, I’d be tempted to adopt the hollow-earth theory. Really. Bunch of liars, either with the assistance of Israel or intended to make Israel look even rottener.

  43. doug scorgie

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:42 pm

    mryuiop
    22 Apr, 2013 – 1:36 pm

    “Blowing up two bombs at the Boston Marathon and killing 3 people and maiming 170 more people makes no sense.”

    It happened Mryuiop so it made sense to someone.

  44. Michael Stephenson

    22 Apr, 2013 - 3:50 pm

    I really suspect that this could be an FBI sting operation that went awry.

    Considering how many potential terrorist they have “stung” using convicts to convince them to turn to terrorism, so they can then be arrested and tried on terrorism charges. 150 since 9/11 IIRC

    Why would they just give these guys the all clear after having already suspected and interviews them? It seems standard procedure is to set them up then bust them.

    Why would this be any different?

  45. Let me throw in a (not The) Muslim perspective.

    First, I grieve for those people who lost family. I grieve for those who lost limbs and must live the rest of their lives recovering. Second, I was so angry that this was allegedly by a Muslim. I wanted so much that Muslims had nothing to do with this and literally cursed (I never curse) when I learned it was by two Muslims. If it was really him, I hope he gets prosecuted to the fullest extent and hope the victims find peace amist the pain.

    I also see some things fishy about this story, mostly about his path towards radicalization.

    1) I find it highly questionable that Tamerlan suddenly became “religious” and “suddenly” went crazy. I grant you, “sudden religious syndrome” can lead to absurdities, but his life didn’t seem particularly pious to begin with. He had none of the outward signs of religiosity — in fact, in many cases had the exact opposite. Dzhokhar’s Russian Facebook page said he was interested in “Money and Power”. Pretty worldly for would-be martyrs.

    Being outgoing and friendly are not exactly questionable qualities.

    2) These two were raised in the US and came to know people here. Just meeting people and knowing what we (Americans) are like would have tempered their minds against radicalism.

    3) The YouTube speakers he was listening to were not “radicals”. His YouTube playlist included Feiz Mohammad. He belongs to the non-political line of Salafiyya (Salafi/Wahabi), who may be upset at US behaviors abroad, but are actively anti-terrorism. Feiz Mohammad is primarily known for his technical theology, not politicism. I dislike Salafiyya/Wahabiyya, but this strain is actively anti-radical.

    4) The Second Chechen war ended about a decade ago and the few remaining seperatists are weak and largely rejected by the Chechen people. Its over. What would his motive even have been? Chechens oppose Russia, not the US — in fact, the US was sympathetic to their cause pre-9/11.

    Again, if its him, I hope he goes to jail forever or gets the chair. But I’m so deeply deeply sad that ever this happened.

  46. Gideon,

    For somebody so keen to encourage google use, you seem quite adverse to doing so yourself.

    How convenient for the spooks that they concocted so quickly a fake history for Mr phoney cowoy, or as he is known in the real world Carlos Arredondo.
    You can read about him via the website of that famous mouthpiece of the US government Michael Moore: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/carlos-arredondo-boston-and-the-worlds-hero

    The guy in the wheel chair is not an actor, his name is Jeff Bauman Jr (perhaps you would like to google that name) he really has just had both of his legs blown off. The reason there may be not as much blood as you might hope is because Carlos has tied up his legs with makeshift tourniquets, and I believe in his right hand he is squeezing off a vein or artery.

    Carlos Arredondo is a hero and it sickens me that people like you are quite happy to drag him through the mud to further your own agenda.

    There is certainly a lot that is very fishy about this whole incident yes, but spreading malicious and false information like this only provides ammunition to those that would insist that we all look the other way and simply accept official explanations, while labelling all detractors loony conspiracy theorists. People like you make their job so much easier and it is tragic that you seem to see yourself as some sort of vanguard for truth when you cannot be bothered to even check! but just regurgitate what you read online. (almost like some unthinking pleb!)

    For other Boston BS hoax de-bunking, the ever trustworthy snopes is your friend…
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/boston.asp
    In particular please see the heading “False Victim”.

    If you cannot verify what you are posting online it might be a better idea to not post at all, or at the very least to not do so with such conviction and apparent veracity. It is not difficult to do, it just takes a little bit of independent thought, and a bit more time.

  47. Komodo,

    I am fully aware of what DEBKA is. You can modify their version of events accordingly…8

  48. Re Waco explosion: astonishing footage here (it’s only 14 seconds):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mpUJ5IIgIY

    There’s an interesting sound. Also, if you’re able to view it frame by frame, the frame immediately prior to the explosion contains an interesting detail.

  49. Dreoilin:

    Is it working ok? =)

  50. Victor Tashkentskiy

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:11 pm

    Not only he traveled to Russia or troubled region of Dagestan, but also he was able to renew his Russian passport in 2012!!!.
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/22/dagestan/
    Wow, that’s amazing. Russians, like many other former soviet republics, scrutinize applicants for passports or passport renewals so much so that you have to give information almost on all relatives and your life and work history. What is more amazing is that Russian migration services confirm he had submitted all documents and claimed that his previous passport was lost in Boston! Shite is happening all over the place.

  51. Well this may be some sort of complex conspiracy involving unlikely cooperation between the FSB and CIA/FBI or there may be a simpler explanation. He could’ve travelled on false/stolen papers, easy enough to obtain if you know the right people and we don’t know for sure what route he took, only that he left the US in January and turned up in Dagestan in March or May. Plenty of time to take the long way round and sneak in via Georgia or Ajerbaijan; or by boat.

    Always a sound idea to consider the more sensible options before developing improbable conspiracy theories.

  52. Craig:
    “But accepting for a moment that Tamerlan is a member of a genuine Jihadist group called IK – it would be impossible for him, already on the Russian security services lists to the extent that they had contacted the US authorities about him, to swan in to Russia and travel down to Dagestan to see IK. Just couldn’t happen.”

    But if he’d travelled to Dagestan to see his entirely uninvolved friends and relations, it might have been an easier matter. And would it have been necessary to travel to Dagestan at all? As far as I can see the Chechen US diaspora is pretty well centred on Boston. I’d be very surprised if IK were unrepresented there. Though that gets us back to the question of why the FBI didn’t have a line on him. And so on, in circles.

  53. Anon:
    I do. I ignore them completely. What comes out of Debka is guaranteed disinformation. Using it as a source is pointless.

  54. Was this tweet by the younger brother a clue in case something happened to him.

    https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/290227971292282881

    Met this marine yesterday who said he doesn’t give his name out to “unclassified personnel” he then proceeded to tell me his name quietly

    2:45 PM – 12 Jan 13

    It is surprising his twitter account is still active.

  55. Komodo,
    the suspects’ father says his elder son rang him a day after explosions and told him that FBI officers had called him and told him that he was being suspected. Tamerlane, according to his father, was taking his brother (in his car) to college when he was shot dead. He also says his elder son has received several phone calls from FBI officers previously. I don’t still understand if a man was flagged don’t you notice whether he is piling armors or explosives or not?. Don’t you notice whether he is contacting someone who is teaching him how to make explosives, because according to an FBI officer who gave an interview yesterday “the explosives were difficult to compound, and there are accomplices who helped in this”.

  56. Cheebacow,

    Im on an IPhone so cant test your new feature out alas..

    But thanks very much for your time and effort on this.

    Im sure it will be invaluable on my desktop PC.

    Cheers.

  57. Another photo of person initially described by police as Suspect 1 as he was being arrested. Looks like him certainly. If not him then he has a great story to tell the press. Where is it?

    https://twitter.com/CBS8/status/325148541762801664/photo/1

  58. Uzbek in the UK

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:44 pm

    Well spotted Mr Murray.

    For a person on Russian FSB (former KGB) security list is virtually impossible to cross Russian border unnoticed and even more impossible to travel to Dagestan which as you well put it – one of the most heavily securitised place in the world. And Tamerlan would have been in Russian FSB list if they raised their concerns with FBI.

    I said again and again that Russia is no better than US and in my opinion is much worse when it comes to their national (Putin and gang’s) interests.

    In my opinion it was carefully planned FSB operation which was aimed at destabilising Chechen nationalist links with western governments. Although foreign radical Islamist fought in Chechen wars, Chechens themselves have rarely expressed their support with international jihhadi movements. With the exception of several Brits who were beheaded in Chechnya there were no cases when Chechens were involved in killing any foreigners. And even in this case it is still argued that this most likely was a work of few foreign radical Islamist who were operating in Chechenya back then.

    For Putin whose dissatisfaction with current quasi criminal Chechen president Ramzan Kadirov is obvious the case of breaking links between west and Chechen nationalist is key in his future plans of regime change in Chechnya.

  59. Uzbek in the UK

    22 Apr, 2013 - 4:49 pm

    Information in the link provided by Victor Tashkentsky is yet another proof that Tamerlan had never been in any FSB lists. Getting any former soviet republics passport is huge pain in the neck and applications are scrutinised by several agencies including FSB. For someone on their security alert list it would be impossible to receive the passport without at least being invited for questioning.

  60. Some “agency” arranged to setup the brothers unaware the brothers were “agents” for someone else?

    What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team as soon as it appeared on scene if accounts are true.

  61. Adrian Haburkuk (age 7yrs 5months and tree weecs),
    go tell your dad to take his pills on time. He probably missed the previous one trying to teach you to his own insanity.

  62. What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team as soon as it appeared on scene if accounts are true.

    And who was the FBI agent who shouted out to him that he could set his conditions for coming out? Did a frightened 19 year old, preparing to die, for the first time since the nightmare began here a familiar voice?

    But maybe he is guilty as hell. I don’t know but some things just seem very wrong.

  63. And who was the FBI agent who shouted out to him that he could set his conditions for coming out? Did a frightened 19 year old, preparing to die, for the first time since the nightmare began here a familiar voice?

    “hear a familiar voice” I meant obviously.

  64. “What will the younger brother say. Interesting he was terrified of the police but surrendered close to death to the FBI Hostage Rescue Team ”

    I thought he’d tried to commit suicide by shooting himself through the throat and wasn’t going to be saying anything; or did I read that wrong?

  65. Frazer at 13h06 says :

    “Oh God..not another conspiracy theory..I thought we had enough with 9-11 !”.

    I fully agree. I’m sure we haven’t heard all of the story yet (if only because Dzokar hasn’t been interrogated yet), but to immediately start up with speculations like “the legless man was an actor and faking it” is immediately right over the top (and I’m trying to put it kindly).

    PS to Frazer : you’ve forgotten the Al-Hillil thread, I guess; that was a real field day for every soothsayer, amateur detective and conspiracy theorist in the blogosphere.

  66. Kempe,

    Nobody has said definitely that he shot himself in the neck. There is also the photo of him climbing out of the boat. Just before the FBI arrived the police had fired dozens of rounds at the boat followed by flash-bang grenades. The police helicopter overhead could see the suspect under the remains of the tarpaulin cover and told the ground where in the boat to aim the flash-bangs. One hit him right about the head and neck area. On the open channel being broadcast over the internet (they often forgot that in the heat of the moment) it was clear that they were just about to fire incendiary devices into the boat having established it had 20 gallons of fuel on-board according to the owners. Suspect was described as alternatively “motionless” and “flailing about” in boat after multiple flash-bang hits and a boat that looked like a sieve with bullet holes. So they decided setting fire to it would do what was needed.

    Then a miracle occurred and after some strong words (instructions from the top) the FBI Hostage Rescue Team ordered all other agencies “back to the perimeter” and sniper teams off of roofs.

    At one point it was even said “We have a problem. This down link is being broadcast live on the internet”. But too much had already been said.

  67. @ Hab,

    Many who want to discredit the asking of reasonable and logical questions about the official version of a story making national – and/or – international news have a tendency to use the phrase “conspiracy theory” to discredit either the questions being asked or the questioner.

    While some persons make outlandish and unsubstantiated claims:-

    “…like “the legless man was an actor and faking it” is immediately right over the top (and I’m trying to put it kindly).”

    through leaps of logic – this want of logical thought – surely cuts both ways.

    PS. Life is good – and it remains good to question and understand the world around us – surely – Hab?

  68. You believe in Russians blowing up buildings as part of a conspiracy theory but you reject 911? Craig, please let me slap you.

  69. @CheebaCow

    Yes indeed. So far so good! Thanks again.

  70. I find it strange that so many “terror drills” seem to simultaneously occur at terrorist incidents in the last few years.

  71. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 6:29 pm

    A lot of unanswered questions we won’t be privy to. The Elder was supposedly shot, but then we learn (?) he was run over my his brother while on the ground in handcuffs. What was the COD? Was the younger bro a ‘Stockholm’ type. The elder was a control-freak who beat his gf, always angry. He may have been an ideal candidate for radicalization, due to his combatant nature. It seems a good deal of restraint was shown by cops who were under fire from the boat. Someone wanted him alive, because the
    knee-jerk of law enforcement is to saturate the landscape with ordnance (See Christopher Dorner) Why? Ostensibly due to the same wish we all share, to hear some answers as to why the FBI let yet another surveilled person of interest slip out of their grasp.

  72. Provocator_Not

    22 Apr, 2013 - 6:35 pm

    Ben, Unleaded

    “The elder was a control-freak who beat his gf, always angry”.
    – You mean his wife who is a convert from Christianity? As far as I understand she says her husband had no “rogue” changes in her behavior, and she is refusing to give interviews.

  73. Ben,

    No it was very, very clear that the police and other assets wanted him dead – in fact they had only stopped firing things into the boat when they thought they had killed him (with flash-bang hits to head knocking him unconscious for a time but not dead?) I was listening live to the police incident channel as were hundreds of thousand of others. The arrival of the FBI HRT (arriving/departing via Coast Guard helicopter?) was all that saved him suffering the familiar fate. Five minutes later and he would have been dead,

  74. Ben,

    In fact, recall that Fox News and others initially reported live that suspect 2 had been killed in a police shoot out at the boat according to their sources. It was only when he started moving again after some time they realised he was still alive and they had to retract that. He is very lucky to be alive. I didn’t think Superman could have got him out of that alive – but the FBI HRT did.

  75. “The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has been charged in his hospital bed, US media report.

    “The complaint against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was sealed, so details of the charges are not known, local channel WCVB said.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22257451

    Well that’s helpful …

  76. Dreoilin & Jives:

    You are very welcome.

  77. Other sources saying he’s been charged with “conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property in US resulting in death”.

    and this charge carries the death penalty.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cfc1ce9e-ab71-11e2-8c63-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RDZbaGEc

  78. I’m not revealing my own view yet but I’m posting this for the habitual babbler family.

    http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2383138&sid=51cf1c313dcf9001da7e744a34208e98

  79. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 7:48 pm

    Sorry Anon. I seem to be suffering from overload picking up bits of bread trying to find my way home on this. I really am exhausted from the lack of reliable information. They will tell us when they decide it’s in their interests. Ha

  80. Just out of interest, were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists, would there have been the same effort put into finding a conspiracy here?

    I think not.

  81. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 8:03 pm

    Same Circus, different clowns Giles. Boston happened on Patriot’s Day, which is a fav of the Supremacists. There were quite a few incidents, Stateside, which led me to think them responsible. It’s true that the rightwing tends to tamp down the threat from domestic white terror, but the marionettes dance to a dog-whistle tune and the composer comes from the same music school.

  82. “Norwegian Killer Linked to Tea Party and EDL”

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

  83. This petition is important. It is from an organisation based in Massachusetts who are concerned that the Boston marathon event is not used to remove civil liberties, increase surveillance and further remove individual freedom.

    http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/boston_response/?akid=2130.2257080.eMI0Es&rd=1&t=2

  84. “But legs blown off in warfare do not bleed as profusely as you would expect; evidently the arteries somehow close off. Otherwise the very many survivors such as Nelson or Henry Paget, would very quickly bleed to death. To believe the bombings themselves were fake you would have to believe hundreds of eyewitnesses and medical staff were complicit. I do not countenance that.”

    Well not quite!

    You should read this:
    http://www.medicalsci.eu/files/tccc_dorlac_isolated_civilian_penetrating_extremity_j_trauma_2005.pdf

    “Results: Fourteen patients meeting inclusion criteria were identified from over 75,000 trauma emergency center (EC) visits. Average age was 31 years and 93% were males. Gunshot wounds accounted for 50% of the injuries. The exsanguinating wound was in the lower extremity in 10/14 (71%) patients and proximal to the elbow or knee in 12/14 (86%). Ten (71%) had both a major artery and vein injured; one had only a venous injury. Prehospital hemorrhage control was primarily by gauze dressings. Twelve (86%) had “signs of life” in the field, but none had a discernable blood pressure or pulse upon arrival at the EC.
    Prehospital intravenous access was not obtained in 10 patients (71%). Nine patients
    underwent ECT, and nine were initially resuscitated (eight with ECT and one with CPR). Those undergoing operative repair received an average of 26  14 units of packed red blood cells. All patients died, 93% succumbing within 12 hours.”

  85. Article in The Guardian – published eight hours after this one – echoing a lot of what I say with more information from the Russian end.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/22/tamerlan-tsarnaev-dagestan-boston-bombing

    Interesting that the Russian authorities are denying Tamerlan was of interest to them, and denying that he was in Dagestan in 2012

  86. Sorry, correct link:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/norwegian-killer-linked-to-tea-party-and-edl/

    Serious lack of questioning of the “official narrative” in there, chaps. Seems like a willingness to “swallow official line”! Fits with the preferred version, doesn’t it, Sheeple?!

    Let’s just say:

    Muslims responsible = fake/conspiracy.
    Far-right responsible = spot on, Govt, thanks so much!

  87. Yet, Habakkuk, we still do not know who killed the Al Hilli family, or why. Is that thread still going, btw? I drop in occasionally, to say hello to the good people there.
    .
    MAAT, if you read the Methods of that study to which you linked, you will see that the study’s authors deliberately selected those patients who arrived at A and E in cardiac arrest and subsequently died. They did not analyse the ones who arrived at A ad E not in cardiac arrest, nor did they slecet the ones who survived. What they found was that all the patients who arrived at A and E in cardiac arrest from exsanguination due to proximal (thigh,upper arm) penetrating wounds, subsequently died. This is hardly surprising. Cardiac arrest due to hypovolaemic shock in a trauma situation is extremely serious and the prognosis is very poor. They also suggested the possibility that some of the patients might have survived had tourniquets been applied at the correct limb sites in the field.

    Also, the study’s authors state that the the majority of civilian deaths from penetrating wounds of the limbs occur in those who have sustained those wounds to the proximal parts of the limbs (thoughs and upper arms). This is not the same as saying that most peiople who suffer such wounds, die.

    So, in other words, this study does not suggest, or attempt to suggest, that all those civilians injured in the limbs to the extent of becoming amputees, normally die.
    .

    Re. the whole case of these two brothers, though, yes, it grows curiouser and curiouser with each passing hour.

  88. Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?

  89. If “Tray D. Ranged” and all the aunts and uncles seemed to regularly talk to the FBI or FSB, yes I would think that suspicious.

  90. Ben,

    In case you missed it up-thread what do you make of this tweet by the younger brother?

    https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/290227971292282881

    His tweets tended to be stream of consciousness type stuff. He also tweeted about the bombing itself at https://twitter.com/J_tsar/status/323950071777472514 – ending with “stay safe people”. The “ain’t no love” bit is a “Jay Z” lyric. He added the “stay safe people.”

    Last year the only thing he seemed to be concerned about was whether the Boston Marathon was a safe place to smoke Marijuana. His opinion seemed to be that would get you busted.

  91. @ Giles,
    You ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?”
    However, surely and question is the reverse it is not the lone Amercian oddball – but – otherwise rational, bright and enterprising youngsters who the US government is trying to convince us, for no obvious or so-far evident suddenly become terrorists. You might then ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Since the suspects have Chechen names and came to the United State, you are logically looking for credible connections and explanations because it is the US government releasing information inferring, if not directly alleging Muslim, Islamic terrorist connections – so you want to verify that there was such an Islamic conspiracy as official sources are suggesting –aren’t you?
    So far the official version of events surrounding the Boston bombing actually does leave more questions than credible answers.

  92. MLK’s killer was certainly most suspicious. Lots of acreage in print about that one. Think too of the JFK killing – now that is the most written-about political assasination in the history of the world. Thomas Hamilton/Dunblane, likewise – massive conspiracy theories about links to judges and goodness knows who. Nothing to do with Muslims, Giles. The killers – whichever versions one believes – in these cases were all all white guys and lots of people have linked the killings to govt agencies or similar cabals. So it seems that there is little evidence for what you are suggesting.

  93. CORRECTIONS:-
    @ Giles,
    You ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Had the suspect been named Tray D. Ranged from Oddball, Alabama, would you all be looking for a conspiracy?”
    However, surely the question is the reverse. It is not the lone American oddball – but – otherwise rational, bright and enterprising youngsters who the US government is trying to convince us, for no obvious or so-far evident, suddenly become terrorists. You might then ask:-
    “Come on, Sheeple! Since the suspects have Chechen names and came to the United States, you are logically looking for credible connections and explanations because it is the US government releasing information inferring, if not directly alleging Muslim, Islamic terrorist connections – so you want to verify that there was such an Islamic conspiracy as official sources are suggesting –aren’t you?
    E.g. One brother’s trip back home for six (6) is being touted as not just a trip related to a family reunion, but it is being suggested that the visits relates to preparation for a terrorist attack.
    Well – was it so – or was it not? That is, at least, one of the questions.
    So far the official version of events surrounding the Boston bombing actually does leave more questions than credible answers.

  94. One suspects that the EDL itself may have links with the security services.

  95. @ GILES,

    So far as a lone American killer is concerned – one can ask logical questions about how the shooting took place. Having met and spoken, at lenght, to the ghost writer for James Earl Ray – this is what I had to say:-

    I MET A MAN –OR, WAS IT JAMES EARL RAY WHO KILLED DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING?

    I met a man. His name was Tupper Saussy. He happened to have been the ghost writer for a book by James Earl Ray, entitled “ Tennessee Waltz” published in 1987. The book gives Ray’s account of the events to state that he did not kill Dr. King.

    Saussy’s view, in his long conversations with me, was that James Earl Ray was not Dr. King’s murderer and he explained to me in considerable detail why Ray was not the killer, then gave me a copy of the book which I then read.

    On Thursday, the 3rd April, 2008, I watched a CNN special on the eve of the anniversary of Dr. King’s assassination. The book came back to mind and I asked myself on conclusion of the CNN special – why is CNN trying to confuse the public?

    Before I return to the book’s contents, I would invite the reader to look at the physical location at the Lorraine Motel, where Dr. King was shot, and consider the photographs of the positioning of surrounding buildings, the trajectory of the bullet, and the direction that the witnesses present were all pointing to when the single shot rang out that killed Dr. King. The web site is worth a visit and it is at :-(http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE1/overlooked.html).

    The reasoning at the web site is sound, the pictures are clear and the conclusions can logically be drawn.

    Back to the book. Read Ray’s own story for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The points I would leave you with are these:-

    A. Why would the witnesses present all be pointing in the direction they heard the shot come from, and CNN be leading the unsuspecting public in 2008 towards some alternative belief that they were pointing elsewhere to a window at a rooming house across the street, from where Ray is supposed to have shot Dr. King?
    B. Is there anything to be made of Ray’s reference to an operative or handler called “Raoul”, and if Ray was this perfect sniper shot who assassinated Dr. King – did he simply conveniently drop all his evidence outside the doorway of the rooming house, to link him to the crime?
    C. If, it was Ray’s doing from reference to B above – then why don’t the test bullets fired from the weapon attributed to Ray not ballistically match the bullet taken from Dr. King – so who did fire the weapon that killed Dr. King?

    Conclusion

    A single person cannot be in two places at the same time. There are two (2) vantage points for the location of the sniper who did the shooting (1) a window from the rooming house and (2) the Gattis penthouse ( to which Andrew Young and all other witnesses are pointing at the time of the shooting).

    Again, carefully review the photographic evidence at the web site:- (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE1/overlooked.html).

    Now – you decide – who killed Dr. Martin Luther King?

    When the state is confronted with legitimate challenges against its destructive polices:-

    “…I knew that I could not ever again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greater purveyor of violence in the world: my own government.” Martin Luther King in his “Beyond Vietnam” 1967 speech.
    it has the power to destroy those who dare speak truth to power. The agents of the government of the United States of America did first attempt to destroy the reputation of Dr. Martin Luther, and used its FBI’s COINTELPRO program to try by criminal means to destroy the credence of those who fought for and sought equal rights and justice. When that failed – well – simply stated, the agents of the state just murdered Dr. King.
    Courtenay Barnett – 4th April, 2008

  96. Im fed up suspending my disbelief of news like this. Ive not got conspiracy theorism! Its not my job to figure out conspiracy, its not one of my talents, but ive got a functioning bullshit detector.

    Undisturbed cafe tables, managed media releasing incompatible statements, generic ‘nothing to see hear’ blogophilic activists amongst sound amature investigations.

    I dont need to know the details, the bullshit is everywhere, this latest incident is just the latest weirdspun microcosm of it.

  97. Giles
    22 Apr, 2013 – 7:56 pm

    “Just out of interest, were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists, would there have been the same effort put into finding a conspiracy here?”

    Please explain.

  98. @ Doug,

    Subject to what Giles actually says in reply, he seems to be saying the following:-

    re: “…were the accused to have been white, far-right extremists…”

    A. If White and far-right – just a couple of disgruntled White people angry with their govennment.
    B. Since not White far-rigth, but having Chechen ancestry, there is something assumed to be more sinister.
    C. Enter the “conspiracy theorists” with their “conspiracy theories”.

    I have responded to Giles above; but, this is what I glean he is saying or aiming at.

    Over to you Giles…????

  99. Courtenay, that’s fascinating, about your contact with the ghost writer. Yes, many people think the state killed MLK. The FBI certainly later overtly killed most of the Black Panther and American Indian Movement leaders.

  100. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 10:27 pm

    Anon; I saw those tweets last week and wondered where Jahar (sic) got such a carefree 19-yr old attitood.

    John Goss; This has been my concern. Watertown was chock full of anxious citizens eager to remain in their homes. There were contractors (including one with a radiation detector) as though in expectation. Ever seen an EQ drill complete with victims displaying putative injuries? This seemed like a dress rehearsal for future events. The police didn’t kick doors in, they knocked.

    Everyone was glad law enforcement took control of their city.

    Related; CISPA was passed on Thurs by the House. Obama has threatened veto. (Har !)

  101. Cheers Maat – Crowd-sourced photographic analysis done better than anything let out of corporate newsrooms.

  102. The brothers were “testing” the security arrangements for the Marathon. The Craft actually setting off the explosives.

    If the younger brother lives and can communicate, this might prove very revealing – if the right people can get to speak to hinm before the wrong people do. Of course he might die of his injuries or get bent out of shape in Guantanamo.

    FEMA are poised. They have the infrastructure and the kit and the Marathon has put them on standby.

    One more bang, of any size, and I think you’ll see the beginnings of martial law in the states, starting in whichever city the bang happens.

  103. Bored with amateur sleuthing?

    This excellent film, “Wag the Dog”, shows just how the professionals make their magic happen.

    http://www.imdb.co.uk/title/tt0120885/

    Freely available at all good torrent stores everywhere.

  104. 911, Sandy Hook, Boston, these faked terror events all have the same hallmarks, over and above the drills. It’s an outrage who did it? AND the media feed the public the evidence of the perpetrators quickly apprehended, maybe killed, and the victims, well are there any? Yes, 911 victims, fire fighters certainly. Sandy Hook, probably none. Not one of the parents I saw interviewed was grieving the loss of a child but that’s a blessing. Boston also contrived a whole city in lockdown madness and media hype. It was not very easy to get to the bottom of how such a massive hoax as 911 could possibly be perpetrated, the immorality , the sheer audacity, the logistics but as the years have gone by the sleuths have figured it out and all the details are explained and anyone who can read can follow the evidence on the internet. The only thing that stops people from going there is a sense that this is cynicism of the very worst sort..and yes it really is. Its hard when even within your own household its taboo to question the official story lines, but don’t believe one word, not one picture or interview that’s been fed through the mass media.

  105. Mike,

    FEMA may be poised but a small (hand-picked) FBI team rescud him from certain death under orders from on high. After telling suspect #2 he could name his terms, suspect 2 immediately used his last remaining strength to surrender to FBI.

    “We have a conflict we need to resolve right now…Orders are to go for negotiation….HRT must be only team in area…This is the FBI come out under your own terms” – Roughly sums up what was heard.

  106. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 10:54 pm

    Jon; You must be around cuz my 6:29 had a follow-up edit on the word ‘ordnance’ which I spelled incorrectly; now corrected on original post. Do me a favor and tell us when that happens. Spooky.

  107. “We have a conflict we need to resolve right now

    Conflict of plans they said.

    1) Kill – underway
    2) Rescue – what happened.

  108. Rupert Habbabkuk (age 14yrs)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 11:17 pm

    Adrian is in bed now (thank god we don’t need to see his spelling again so soon) and dad’s floating in his cryo-tank so it falls to me to fly the flag for the Habbabkuks.

    MJ (4 01pm)
    Like my dad says, Waco, there’s nothing there that a quick lick of paint won’t put right. These people are clearly over reacting ………

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skOJNFSVjRk

    No wonder editors are playing down this story.

    Regarding the link you put up. It doesn’t work here. Funny how so many of these conspiracy videos show eror messages soon after going online. Crackpots obviously can’t get their videos to linger. This one still works though…….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skOJNFSVjRk

    As for the flash in the sky to the left of the fire just before the explosion, haven’t you heard of Okkam’s Penknife? Obviously not. Well let me explain to you in little words. Look for the simplest explanation, stupid. It’s clear to see what it must have been, if you only use your imagination properly. It was simply a car windscreen or something reflecting the light the fire up into the clouds. Any other theory is obviously just plain wrong. As for the interesting sound, why can’t you accept that sounds are sometimes just interesting without needing to be analysed?

    Mango (4 53pm)
    My dad gets so cross when leftie low-lives like you attempt to psychoanalyse him. You should know by now that he’s much better at it than the lot of you and has repeatedly shown a detailed understanding of all your individual motivations and psychopathologies.

    He not only totally understands you but he has a brilliant and rapier-like ability in crafting the English language. Just take a moment to marvel again at his contribution tonight…..

    “PS to Frazer : you’ve forgotten the Al-Hillil thread, I guess; that was a real field day for every soothsayer, amateur detective and conspiracy theorist in the blogosphere.”

    Ah, the literary flair of Dickens combined with the intellect of Einstein!

    And the rest of you amateurs pointing to the intact windows of the shops at the Boston blast site. Doesn’t everyone know Boston glaziers are the fastest on the planet. So there’s another of your flackey ideas shot down in flames.

    Just because you present loads of facts doesn’t mean the official story is wrong. It just means you are looking at the wrong facts.

    You will always need need the Habbabkuks to put you right.

  109. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    22 Apr, 2013 - 11:24 pm

  110. Bem,

    Jon; You must be around cuz my 6:29 had a follow-up edit on the word ‘ordnance’ which I spelled incorrectly; now corrected on original post. Do me a favor and tell us when that happens. Spooky.

    I think it is actually illegal to silently edit others posts. I’ll leave it to “them” to work it out. Either the people who run this forum are idiots or ….something else.

    My money is on both. One day something is going to hit from an unexpected direction,

  111. My money is on both. One day something is going to hit from an unexpected direction,

    That’s a legal reference. Again for avoidance of doubt.

  112. Its not illegal to spellcheck comments ffs

  113. Crab,

    There are some people, who think they are not are incredibly naive. Sadly one needs to be on the receiving end to understand.

  114. Rupert Habbabkuk (age 14yrs)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 12:08 am

    Hi Kempe. Thanks for the picture. Good try!

    No I refer to the blast site outside Forum Cafe and Starbucks. Loads of pictures around. Here are some.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310596/Boston-bombings-latest-FBI-use-phone-records-identify-suspect.html

    So I say again what everybody knows: Boston glaziers really are the fastest on the planet.

    You might want to try crowd sourced images which haven’t passed through the MSM filter like these.

    http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

  115. Canada to announce arrests after thwarting ‘major terrorist attack':
    CBC 22 Apr 2013
    Canadian police and intelligence agencies are to announce multiple arrests on Monday after an operation to thwart a “major terrorist attack,” the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation said on Monday, citing unnamed “highly placed” sources.
    The operation was coordinated with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, CBC said.
    http://www.legitgov.org/Canada-announce-arrests-after-thwarting-major-terrorist-attack-CBC

  116. No I’m not suggesting the people running this blog are complicit. Just saying.

  117. Just saying something is wrong.

  118. Yeh, something between your spellchecker and your keyboard.

  119. Crab,

    Ever been on the receiving end of bullshit? And where do we seriously disagree anyway?

  120. No I refer to the blast site outside Forum Cafe and Starbucks.

    OK, so in your vast experience how many windows SHOULD’VE been shattered?

  121. Aftermath of the Oslo bomb.

    http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/1515.jpg

    I suppose that was another “false flag” attack that never really happened.

  122. Just for Kempe

    23 Apr, 2013 - 2:07 am

    Hi Kempe,

    No need to get so excited. Today was for me unofficial troll-a-troll day. Thanks for acknowleging it.

    How do you manage to get so cross you write like that? Do you train?

    Now let me reply to you I’m not claiming “vast experience”. I do claim to have eyes, a relatively old but functioning brain and a memory. I don’t feel I need vast experience or a troll permit to point-out the bleeding obvious.

    I refer to the blast site outside Forum Cafe and Starbucks because that’s where many crowd-sourced pictures clearly show a backpack detonated. Maybe you did’nt open these? Look at the backpack on the ground in front of the railings then look at the signs on the buildings.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2310596/Boston-bombings-latest-FBI-use-phone-records-identify-suspect.html

    And I’ll repeat myself. Crowd-sourced images which haven’t passed through the MSM filter are very clear regarding backpacks and organised groups of individuals.

    http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU

    Against this pile of photo evidence from several different sources I have the name-calling and non-arguments of this blog’s resident trolls. WTF do you expect me to conclude?

    Now take some deep breaths.

  123. Nobody really knows that’s why speculation in the public domain is healthy.

  124. Tamerlan Tsarnaev making it all the way through Russia is evidence of nothing. Chechens and other Caucasians have representatives (including influential politicians) in Russian cities to make all their legal troubles go away. This was seen when Rasul Mirzaev from Dagestan killed a young man outside of a Moscow nightclub a couple of years ago. He would have walked away, but – because of the internet – Russian nationalist groups took interest. The local Dagestani population tried to defuse this by saying he was a Jew, but it turns out that Russian nationalists were not buying that excuse. So Rasul had to turn himself in to receive some slap on the wrist because the authorities were afraid of another riot. All Tamerlan had to do was call some Chechen politician in Moscow and he would have none of the troubles your friend had in St. Petersburg.

  125. @ Urk,

    Sorry for the slow response but I am in a different time zone.

    Before I posted I had spent 2 whole days investigating these events on-line. By way of background I am a retired professional person who, until a few years ago would never have dreamed of visiting many of these sites or of writing as I did above. I was a fairly conservative fellow, the kind who cheered when Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald and agreeing that the bastard didn’t deserve a trial. Hell, I would even have found Craig Murray a bit too radical.

    What I have found on many of these alternative sites are not nut-jobs but frequently apparently young enthusiasts diligently seeking to get to the truth, primarily through analysis of the official photographs (one such link provided above in a prior post).

    The consensus opinion now appears to be that the first bomb (more of a smoky firecracker) neat the finish line at Lens Crafter shop was a fake to literally provide a smoke screen for the ‘injured actors, including the amputee actor. The second bomb, planted in a backpack, was real and killed 3 and wounded over a hundred.

    The reason it was done this way must be speculative, of course, but a rational explanation is that the first provided great, grisly photographs for the newspapers and TV (cf the amputee in the wheelchair). More deeply, however, it was performed in such an obvious, almost amateur way that made it easily detected. Since these fakes were the first pictures to be released they provided a field day for the genuine cynics who were able to show that the injured were actors. Then when the truly injured from the second bomb began to appear, the primary investigators were discredited as cranks and ‘conspiracy theorists’. Worse, they are seen as disgusting, insensitive people whom decent people (like you, and a former me) would find repulsive and not listen to or have anything to do with.

    To turn to your specific points. The designated “hero”, Carlos Arredondo is something of an oddity. In several of the photographs after the first ‘blast’ he can be seen with his back to the injured actors holding his hat and USA flag. See, for example: http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1602&start=375 and there are many more such (official) pictures. He’s not tending to the injured at all until well after the flash bang. Meantime, if you look around these pictures, you will see that the double amputee was lying unattended holding one shattered leg in the air for some considerable time while others around him were being attended to. Unbelievable.

    “The guy in the wheel chair is not an actor, his name is Jeff Bauman Jr”. Maybe, but a Jeff Bauman Jr reported in his social page that he was fine and had not been injured. Maybe there were two Mr Jeff Bauman Jnrs attending the event, but others have tentatively identified the wheelchair man as a soldier who lost his legs in Afghanistan three years ago.

    Many questions. And still no one has addressed my question as to why the poor amputee – after having lain unattended for a considerable period – instead of being treated by the medicos who were there, or immediately transferred to an ambulance, was pulled into a wheelchair by our peace-activist hero then wheeled past the waiting cameras at the finishing line?

    Whatever the answers to these questions anyone with an open mind should look at the early photographs of the first explosion to see if actors were involved. If so, then the two patsies could not have perpetrated the whole event.

  126. Wow – the conspiracy theorists are out in force. You do encourage them, Mr Murray!

    You are right, the Russian security services’ role makes no sense. It wouldn’t seem normal for them to request the FBI’s assistance to deal with a suspected Dagestani extremist. And then to let that suspected extremist wander back in an out of Russia unhindered. Maybe he wasn’t unhindered, though. Maybe he spent the first missing months of his 6-month trip being done over in a Russian basement. That might be enough to radicalise him, even if he wasn’t already. That and living the next few months without an income in the guerrilla war zone that is Dagestan. Might teach him that life can be a bit cheaper than your average Bostonian would believe.

    The FBI’s role makes perfect sense, however. Anybody who knows anything about investigations would realize that your average case can throw up a very large number of persons of interest. So it’s not surprising when it turns out that suspects had previously been “on the radar”. In fact, it would be more surprising if they hadn’t. But US security and investigation agencies do not have the capability to track such an exponentially growing list of “persons of interest” that a huge case like homeland security will generate. That would be the job of a police state and the Russians will be much better at it. US agencies are designed to either track down and prosecute particular people who have already committed crimes or to investigate particular areas of crime to find targets that they can prosecute. They can’t keep track of a whole section of the population that are labeled a potential threat. So it’s totally not surprising that someone could at one time be interviewed by the FBI and then not too long after “be allowed” to gather enough materials for a homemade bomb. What are the FBI supposed to do? Keep all potential suspects under 24-hour surveillance? Again, that’s what the Russians are good at and despite some recent worrying steps in that direction, the Americans are not there yet.

    What the Americans do have is a few parts of agencies that are increasingly riding roughshod over the constitution and civil liberties in a frantic and misguidedly patriotic effort to address the “terrorist threat”. This includes those “honeypot” traps where undercover agents try to groom potential Islamic extremists and then arrest them for a planned attack that would not have existed if it were not for the undercover agents. Perhaps Tamerlan was approached in this kind of way but unknown to the FBI he was aso at the same time making all too real plans of his own? That would be egg on the FBI’s face, for sure.

  127. Or perhaps some part of the American agencies had an interest in developing Tamerlan as an informant on his Dagestani or Islamist contacts, unaware of his bomb plans. Again, why would they be aware? They must have contact with quite a few unsavory characters and can’t keep them all under constant surveillance without evidence of crime. But still, wouldn’t look good…

  128. DavidH

    I think that’s all entirely sensible comment. Though I am not sure if Tamerlan were abused by the Russian security services in some way that would push him to blow up Americans (I know both groups are largely Christian but…) Like you I wonder if this was an FBI agent provocateur operation gone horribly wrong, as one was bound to given the number they are doing. I don’t tend to agree with those who think it was a deliberate bombing by the US authorities, or a hoax. But I do not rule out the possibility that Tamerlan thought he was being run by a Chechen group but in fact was being run by the Russian FSB – that seems to me not improbable.

  129. Craig,

    I like that one. Not improbable, to be sure.

    BTW – thanks for this website. A breath of fresh air and always worth reading. Wonderful bunch of people you have posting as well, for the most part…

  130. Meanwhile (see Dreoilin above) the Canadians have foiled a terrorist atrocity plot shock horror of their own, The BBC was reporting last night that the Canadians believe this one was initiated by a quote Al Qaeda group in quote Iran. I didn’t catch the Iran reference in this morning’s R4 news, so maybe someone spotted that the connection between AQ (Salafists, Sunni) and Iran (Shi’a), whose mutual loathing is a matter of extensive record, might be considered a little tenuous.

    Watching this space…

  131. “But I do not rule out the possibility that Tamerlan thought he was being run by a Chechen group but in fact was being run by the Russian FSB – that seems to me not improbable.”

    Which would fit rather well with hassle-free visits to Russia. Indeed.

  132. OT – Blocking Script

    Just made a minor update to greatly improve the nickname matching of this script. I have also removed the block button from a users own posts and users are now unable to block Craig or Jon. I think it is definitely worth upgrading.

    btw, the write access of the script is extremely limited, so the only way to save the troll name data is through custom browser preferences. I have no idea what the limitations of these are. So I only recommend blocking those who repeatedly offend, not the one off spammers. If someone wants to test the limitations, please let me know how much data can be stored before encountering problems.

    The updated script can be found at the same link of my original post: http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/the-official-tsarnaev-story-makes-no-sense/#comment-404193

  133. Mango:
    “according to an FBI officer who gave an interview yesterday “the explosives were difficult to compound, and there are accomplices who helped in this”.”

    I have my doubts about this. From my 14-year-old self comes the memory of using a certain weedkiller* in combination with a a common condiment in order to make things go bang (no, officer, nothing you’d be interested in, just teenage idiocy) The explosion pictured, with the characteristic persistent clouds of white smoke, looks remarkably similar to that memory. Pretty unstable, though – better to just have one person mixing it…
    *freely available in the UK then, but less so now, happily.

  134. On another forum I visit there used to be an admin who would silently edit posts of others. Sometimes the posts then said the opposite of what had originally been said (that happened to me). That doesn’t happen here but could a simple [Mod: Edited for clarity/spelling] or similar be added if any non author initiated change is made to the original text?

    In a thread which discusses whether what we are seeing is the unvarnished truth it is a little disconcerting if the thread itself gets modified even with the best intentions. A simple note on the post clears things up.

  135. Dunno if this has been addressed yet, but it turns out that old Uncle Ruslan who publicly dissed the brothers, is a bit of a “player” himself:

    “Ruslan Tsarni, a well-connected oil executive, is currently involved in an international criminal investigation into a Kazakh billionaire banker-turned-fugitive alleged to have absconded with $6 billion from Kazakhstan’s BTA Bank.”

    “The day after the massive manhunt in the Boston area that led to the death of Tamerlan and the capture of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, Radio Free Europe and Kyrgyz Service correspondent Timur Toktonaliev traveled to Tokmok.

    From there, he reported that the extended Tsarnaev family is well-known there, even beyond their local community.

    “It is not known if there was anything more than a personal connection,” the story reported, “but organized crime boss Aziz Batukaev, who is also an ethnic Chechen, lived next door to the Tsarnaevs. Batukaev grew up and lived in Tokmok, but is now in Chechnya.”

    What can it all mean?

    http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/04/22/was-boston-bombers-uncle-ruslan-with-the-cia/

  136. @Cheebacow

    When I reported that the script was working fine, I had unfortunately only tested the ‘block’ function. Last night I decided (more out of curiosity than anything else) to test the ‘unblock’ function. That didn’t work for me.
    So this morning I have disabled Greasemonkey (which, as you know, I can enable or disable with one click, and that’ll do me fine for now.) But thought I should mention it.

  137. I wonder will we hear any more about this after a couple of days?

    Boston bombers: FBI hunting 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

    (and I’m sick and tired of looking for the word “alleged” and not finding it)

  138. “In 2012 Tamerlan Tsarnaev, who is of such concern to Russian security, is able to fly to Russia and pass through the airport security checks of the world’s most thoroughly and brutally efficient security services without being picked up.”

    One of the things puzzling me about Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s trip to Dagestan is how he got there. The easiest way for an American (though he was only a green-card holder) would be through Europe to Georgia and Azerbaijan, from where, as a person whose passport must already have Chechen and Dagestan stamps, I assume he could have flown into the airport at Makhachkala a lot easier than others, like myself, might have got there. He could also have flown in from Kyrgyztan, another country where his family had lived. Remember he set off in January and did not arrive there till March. There are certainly missing pieces in the jig-saw. It seems unlikely from the following article that he was ‘recruited’ while on that trip last year.

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/searching-for-home-drew-tamerlan-tsarnaev-to-city-where-violence-is-common-and-religion-is-key-20130422-2iap9.html

    Chechens, as the article says, are not at war with the US.

    It could be something quite simple that triggered this attack, like being refused US citizenship, which was something it seems – for some inexplicable reason from my point of view – he sought.

  139. @CheebaCow

    Only saw your post at 23 Apr, 2013 – 9:09 am now. I don’t know if it affects what I said above, but I’ll find out. ;)

  140. It could be something quite simple that triggered this attack, like being refused US citizenship, which was something it seems – for some inexplicable reason from my point of view – he sought.

    The younger brother had just been granted citizenship though.

  141. Dreoilin – a little more on Canada. Seems 2 have now been arrested.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world/americas/canada-terror-plot-thwarted/

    CNN) — Canadian authorities have arrested two men accused of planning to carry out an al Qaeda-supported attack against a passenger train traveling between Canada and the United States, a U.S. congressman told CNN on Monday.

    “As I understand it, it was a train going from Canada to the U.S.,” Rep. Peter King, R-New York, chairman of the counterterrorism and intelligence subcommittee, said.

    The news follows an announcement earlier in the day by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that they had arrested Chiheb Esseghaier, 30, and Raed Jaser, 35.

    The two men are charged with “receiving support from al Qaeda elements in Iran” to carry out an attack and conspiring to murder people on a VIA railway train in the greater Toronto area, Assistant Police Commissioner James Malizia said.

  142. Anon, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, may have been adored by his younger brother, I know my younger brother idolized me. But I did say ‘something quite simple like’. Who knows what triggers an irrational act?

  143. “al Qaeda elements in Iran” ???

  144. OT: Watching BBC News today it seems the UK government has finally woken up to the strong possibility of losing Scotland for real.

  145. Anon: Re Scottish fiscal independence : why do you think Osbo was blubbing?

  146. Agree with Craig’s assessments that the “facts” do not add up.

    There is a list of oddities about the alleged perpetrator’s behaviour at Mother Jones:

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/eleven-most-mystifying-things-tsarnaev-brothers-did

    …which adds some other paradoxical points.

    I doubt we’ll ever know the truth.

  147. The FBI Fosters, Funds and Equips American Terrorists

    http://www.corbettreport.com/the-fbi-fosters-funds-and-equips-american-terrorists/

  148. O/T
    Important developments on Syria with the UK’ Israel and US in lock-step:

    “The UK is increasingly concerned there is evidence that chemical weapons have been used in Syria.”

    “Foreign Secretary William Hague said the claims must be investigated and the perpetrators held to account.”

    “Meanwhile, soil samples gathered from random sites in Syria, have been smuggled to the UK for testing, British intelligence sources told the BBC.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22156178

    “Israel confirms Syria regime used chemical weapons against civilians”

    “To the best of our professional understanding, the regime has used lethal chemical weapons on a number of occasions, including the incident on March 19,” the head of the Research Division at Military Intelligence, Brig. Gen. Itai Baron, said at conference of the Institute for National Security Studies.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-confirms-syria-regime-used-chemical-weapons-against-civilians.premium-1.517077

    “U.S. intelligence: Syria’s Assad used chemical weapons”

    “Information relates to two incidents that occurred in the Damascus area in March; Washington has reiterated that the use of chemical weapons by Syria regime would constitute a ‘red line’.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-intelligence-syria-s-assad-used-chemical-weapons.premium-1.514411

  149. Finally found some pictures of the shootout scene. Does look like the two brothers. Still not explaining how the elder brother went from under arrest to dead though.

    http://www.getonhand.com/blogs/news/7743337-boston-bombing-suspect-shootout-pictures

  150. Dreoilin & anyone interested in the blocking script:

    Thanks for the heads up. After some testing I found that it failed if you blocked someone and then unblocked them without reloading the page. I through up a quick fix that you may have seen if you checked in the last hour (forcing the page to reload every time you click a block/unblock button), but I have now just made another update to implement an even better fix (no more reloading, so no extra stress on Craig’s servers). It’s still a bit rough, but when I have more time in a few days I can clean it up a bit. In the meantime it should be working now.

  151. For ResidentDissident, KA and others who wish to argue that the Russian security services aren’t really very efficient or oppressive, and that is the explanation.

    I have a challenge for you. Post something serious and very derogatory about Putin, just here, in this comments thread. Then travel to Russia. You will see how “inefficient” they are.

  152. resident dissident

    23 Apr, 2013 - 12:18 pm

    Craig

    That isn’t what I said – and I have posted plenty that is derogatory about Putin in the past and probably have rather more connections with Russia than yourself. I also note that you failed to answer my argument as to why Putin would be very unlikely to want to be involved in such an operation at the current time.

    What I said was that the Russian authorities were not fully in control of the situation in Dagestan/Chechenya. The Chechen mafia, to which the family concerned may well be connected (and I certainly have my suspicions), is more than capable of getting people past security checks into Dagestan and elsewhere, and also has pretty well know links with Islamist groups.

  153. The quick Russian response to the aftermath of the bombing is suspiciously slick. The offer to help with the investigation at a point when the incident could still have been an entirely US domestic incident shows great ‘foresight’.

    The article published on Tuesday regarding Putin’s offer is bizarre given it’s timing in my view. Are the comments at the bottom (linking to Chechnya) the work of Kremlin propagandists? That’s what they read like to me. Such foresight.

  154. ResidentDissident

    I don’t think the Chechen Mafia can get listed jihadists into Russia and into Dagestan.

    It is important to differentiate between the Chechen criminal mafia, who are ubiquitous in Moscow and very well-connected with Russian politics, from Chechen jihadis – the two ought not be conflated. I quite believe KA’s nightclub stabbing story. But there is a serious difference in the way in which the Chechen mafia and Chechen Islamists will be treated.

  155. The article published on Tuesday in the Moscow Times… I should add!

  156. Here’s some further commentary on the intriguing Uncle Ruslan’s ties to energy companies, oligarchs, Kazakhstan and the U.S. government, and the arrest of two students who are believed to have known the Boston suspects:

    “What Else Does Uncle Ruslan Know?”

    http://advanceindiana.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/what-else-does-uncle-ruslan-know.html

  157. “BOSTON TRUTH: The “Chechen Connection”, Al Qaeda and the Boston Marathon Bombings”

    “A profile on the Russian social-networking site Vkontakte that appears to belong to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev includes a propaganda clip rallying jihadists to go to Syria to fight alongside rebels there, citing sayings from the Prophet Muhammad. [Amply documented, it just so happens that the jihadist foreign fighters in Syria are recruited by the US and its allies] (Wall Street Journal, op cit.)”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/boston-truth-the-chechen-connection-al-qaeda-and-the-boston-marathon-bombings/5332337

  158. resident dissident

    23 Apr, 2013 - 12:49 pm

    Craig

    Well someone is able to move Jihadists around Russia and the Caucauses – I think it would be very difficult to argue that ALL the terrorist activity in Russia was a false flag operation (although I agree with you that Putin has a lot of questions to anaswer about the apartment bombings just befor his election). I think you forget that the Chechen mafia has no little interest in narcotics, a commodity that the Taleban and friends have some access to.

    I also suspect that for many Russians their inbuilt hatred of Chechens (in no small part encouraged by their leaders) is such that they make little distinction between whether they are mafia, jihadists or just the vast majority who are ordinary people.

  159. Gladio Plan B, as described by Sibel Edmonds in a riveting interview downloadable from here

    http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-595-sibel-edmonds-on-nato-terrorism-911-and-drug-running/

    is probably the best place to start for those here who continue determinedly to uphold the mainstream meme about “conspiracy theory”.

    A visual “mindmap” of the salient points is here

    http://www.ai.rug.nl/~tjeerd/gladio/doc/Sibel_Edmonds_Gladio_Mindmap.pdf

    If Craig would be so kind as to dispute any of this – such as that Abdullah Catli was given a British passport – we would soon see which areas he would rather we didn’t look at, and the price he has to pay for his inside information from Foreign Office sources.

  160. After a period of shock, several of the younger brother’s friends have reset their twitter and facebook accounts to public and are tweeting that they still believe in his innocence despite all the apparent evidence to the contrary. Two of them have started a campaign to have him freed.

    One is asking for the appointed lawyer to get in touch with him. Both seem to be concerned about their own safety. Elsewhere there are calls for his friends to be arrested as defending him is seen as proof of their own guilt.

  161. The story is now that this was a very simple operation – “they took a very simple recipe…” and did not rely on accomplices.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/simple-boston-bomb-plot-hatched-foreign-authorities/story?id=19019428#.UXaIQMrhdhY

    And see mine @ 0914.

  162. @CheebaCow
    “It’s still a bit rough, but when I have more time in a few days I can clean it up a bit. In the meantime it should be working now.”

    Yes, it is (and I tested both functions this time)! and thanks very much again.

  163. Craig
    ‘I have a challenge for you. Post something serious and very derogatory about Putin, just here, in this comments thread. Then travel to Russia. You will see how “inefficient” they are.’

    Would it be unfair to say that for you to post 9/11 conspiracy comments or to state that you believe, as I do, that the US authorities manufactured this terror attack, would lead to similar ‘inefficiency’ for you on your international travels?

  164. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 2:54 pm

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/eleven-most-mystifying-things-tsarnaev-brothers-did

    Wear a backwards hat and no sunglasses. Unlike his older brother, Dzhokhar made little effort to prevent cameras from capturing his face, making him easier to identify when the FBI released security camera photos on Thursday. Indeed, classmates at University of Massachusetts–Dartmouth did see him in the photos, but dismissed the similarity because it seemed so far-fetched.

    Not react to the explosions. For three days, investigators pored over all available photos and surveillance videos of the blast area searching for abnormal reactions. The complaint filed in federal court on Monday specifically cites Dzhokhar’s reaction to the first explosion as a giveaway; per the complaint, he glanced in the direction of the first blast only briefly.

    Leave the car in the shop. The Wall Street Journal reported that Dzhokhar stopped by an auto-body shop in Watertown on Tuesday to pick up the Mercedes he’d brought in for repairs.

    Stay in Boston. The second bomb exploded at 2:49 p.m. last Monday. Dzhokhar and Tamerlan carjacked a Mercedes at 10:39 p.m.* on Thursday. What did they do in the interim three days? Go to the gym, check in on their busted car, and, in Dzhokhar’s case, go to a party on the UMass–Dartmouth campus. During the three-day window in which their involvement was unknown, they made no attempt to flee.

    Kill an MIT police officer. Why did the brothers shoot 26-year-old Sean Collier? The murder at 10:30 p.m. on Thursday set in motion the events that would ultimately lead to their capture.

    Run out of cash. When Dzhokhar carjacked a Mercedes on Thursday night, he and his brother had one thing in mind: Get cash, and fast. They emptied $800 from an ATM using their victim’s PIN number, before they reached the account limit. Holding up a stranger for money suggests a woeful lack of planning on their part (they hadn’t budgeted) that helped alert them to the authorities.

    Not understand how ATMs work. After reaching the daily withdrawal limit at one ATM, the Tsarnaevs, apparently not realizing that the machines are part of an interconnected system, decided to try their luck at two different machines. The quest to find a working ATM was how they ended up, coincidentally, at a 7/11 in Cambridge around the same time it was the scene of an armed robbery, and were spotted on the store security camera.

    Confess to the hostage. According to the complaint, when Dzhokhar got into the Mercedes, he immediately told the driver, “Did you hear about the Boston explosion? I did that.” That meant their cover would be immediately blown if the driver escaped. Which brings us to…

    Stop for snacks. The Los Angeles Times reported that the hostage escaped after the brothers stopped at a gas station on Memorial Drive to buy snacks.

    Keep the hostage’s phone. The Tsarnaevs continued on without their hostage—but they did have his phone, which allowed police to track their location via GPS.

    Bring a BB gun. The weapons used by the two suspects, according to police: a pressure-cooker bomb, seven IEDs, an M4 carbine, two handguns, and a BB gun. Why a BB gun?

  165. Alex Thomson

    ‘The Boston and Canadian plots: the questions that need answering’

    http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/boston-canadian-plots-questions-answering/4690

    (I’m tempted to wonder if Alex reads here …)

  166. More from Sibel Edmonds. In the FBI, there were only four countries that were exempt from monitoring under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Guess which?

    Turkey

    Azerbaijan

    United Kingdom

    Belgium

  167. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 3:35 pm

    Walid Jumblat, Druze extrordinaire, thinks Syria is behind bombings? Still imbibing. I don’t see that kind of reach.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fanbaaonline.com%2F%3Fp%3D106480

  168. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 3:55 pm

  169. Interesting set of posts and I must agree with Craig about the FSB…they are quite an efficiant lot of sods…I had dealings with them a few years ago when they tried to bug the offices of an organization I was working for…CB..interesting links..tks for posting, but not really convinced..

  170. I have been poking around the net, looking for some reason – any reason – that the FBI would issue photos of the Tsarnaev brothers as prime suspects in the bombing. It seemed like it was only the day before that we were looking at collages of photos from “4Chan think tank” and wondering about the guy in the blue shirt.

    This is all I have found so far

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-19/boston-bombing-victim-in-iconic-photo-helped-identify-attackers.html

  171. unwatch.org – Service Unavailable.
    Hmmm.

    Ben – stop believing Israelis, willya?

    Despite efforts to paint itself as an independent watchdog group, UN Watch has repeatedly been accused of having a staunchly “pro-Israel” bias and on outlook on Middle East peace that is closely in line with that of Israel’s right-wing Likud Party. For many years, the group was funded by the American Jewish Committee (AJC)—publisher of the neoconservative flagship journal Commentary, whose editors have included Norman Podhoretz and Irving Kristol—which has made use of its offices in Geneva, as well as those of other affiliated groups, including the Transatlantic Institute in Brussels.[2]

    A non-exhaustive Right Web search of Form 990 filings from 2002-2009 uncovered more than $2.3 million in donations to UN Watch—as well as to its U.S. fundraising arm, the American Friends of UN Watch—from Israel-centric and conservative-leaning foundations. The most important funder during this period was the American Jewish Committee, which appears to have given the group some $1.8 million between 2002-2007. Other donors have included the Newton & Rochelle Becker Foundation, which has supported several neoconservative organizations like the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) and Daniel Pipes’ Middle East Forum, and the Shillman Foundation, which has also supported MEMRI. The Becker Foundation has been described by the Center for American Progress as a primary funder of the so-called “Islamophobia network,” an informal grouping of prominent foundations, opinion makers, and media personalities that spread negative impressions about Islam and Muslims in the United States. MEMRI, like UN Watch, is a “nonpartisan” watchdog group with an identifiable right-wing, pro-Israel slant.

    Source: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/UN_Watch

  172. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 4:21 pm

    Thanks, ‘modo. I had to run an errand and didn’t have time to look, so I thought I’d have you do it for me. :)

    http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130423-911258.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

  173. Though I do have some thoughts on this…What would be the point of an American agency..CIA..FBI etc arranging for a couple of dupes to massacre their own citizens ?
    No obvious disguise…well probably they did not expect to get caught…No reaction to explosions..well if you expect it, you will not react like everyone else..Pick up your car…need something to drive in case you need to bugger off sharpish…Stay in Boston..probably try to follow a normal routine as possible,wait to find out where the investigation is going…pretty normal criminal behaviour if you ask me…Shoot an MIT cop…bloody stupid but they probably panicked and reacted to a threat..Hijack a car and use an ATM…cash is always welcome in these situations…people carjacking and using a stolen cc is a factor in 60 out of 100 similar cases in the US…Confess to a hostage…keep him quiet through fear..standard tactic…Stop for snacks…well you have to eat sometime…Keep his phone..now that was dumb but understandable if you want to call Mum…The BB gun…now that one I just cannot work out !

  174. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 4:34 pm

    “Shoot an MIT cop…bloody stupid but they probably panicked and reacted to a threat.”

    No threat. They had one handgun and wanted another. They didn’t even get the gun after killing the cop. It was locked into the holster. These things can and should be explained, and until they are, I remain unpersuaded that all is as it appears.

  175. @Ben..nope..Police Officer’s guns are not ‘locked’ into holsters, they are secured with a flap on the trigger that is secured by a pop tab…I checked with a NYPD friend of mine…

  176. None of the points in the Mother Jones list struck me as extraordinary either, seems as much vague misdirection as anything.

    The photos of the Cowboy Veteran hero in different flag displaying postures, and also with the upright un-tourniquetted maimed bomb victim ,i find hard to believe. The presence of ‘dudes in black’ with Seals/Blackwater skull insignias and backpacks, and other observers.. The lack of physical distruption and damage around the bomb outside the cafe. Not that im sure there arent explainations and plausibility, i am just extremely cynical about the messages put out by the various official agencies concerned. If the photos werent odd – by selection or by chance, I wouldnt find them odd. I would still cringe at that typical policy of sending a large assault force to execute the suspects, and double take at the farcical escape and manhunt.

  177. Russia is widely known for its mostly inefficient bureaucracies often at war with one another. The FSB is not the well-oiled machine you and others claim it to be. They can pick on a few bloggers sometimes, but most of the time they don’t.

    BTW, you’re suggesting that Islamists helped him move throughout the country. I did not. But it is incorrect to say that the Obshina will have nothing to do with the jihadist movement. I recall a report from a couple of years ago that said that 90% of the illicit funds to Wahhabi charities from Saudi Arabia and Qatar are lost to corruption. Jihad is very profitable.

  178. What’s the point? Strategia della tensione.

  179. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 9:04 pm

    Crab, your claws are specialized tools for dismantling, but I wait for you to build something.

  180. It seems a credible source working out of Dubai has suggested the Tsarnaev brothers were trained in explosives/weapons to fight against Syrian government forces. Russian intelligence became aware of this indoctrination and took up a plan to warn the US authorities with the intention of preventing further sponsoring that also included a financial package.

    The US cold-shouldered the request more than once compelling Russian intelligence to coerce the lads to ‘turncoat’ on their US handlers and teach them a lesson.

  181. Greenmachine

    23 Apr, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    The great liberating power of the internet is encapsulated in this thread. 10 years ago how many people would be questioning official narratives or seeking further evidence to clarify understanding. We were expected to consume and believe the punditry of the MSM. In the 10 years I have been researching for myself using all forms of source it has been hugely empowering. I certainly do not know all the answers but I sure as hell have many many more questions as time goes bye -surely a good thing if somewhat unsettling!
    The question that keeps nagging away in relation to the Boston bombings is the appearance of the naked man, who may or may not be Tamarlan, in News broadcasts before the narrative of suspect#1’s demise was aired.Can anyone enlighten me on this one? There is too much here to dismiss the possibility of the Intelligence Agencies manipulating / manufacturing / guiding the events that surround this tragic event.

  182. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    23 Apr, 2013 - 9:44 pm

    Mark; Walid Jumblat obliquely made that connection in my post above, but I thought it was just the cognac.

  183. Yes Ben, thank-you buddy or in my case possibly navy rum – but of course it resonates towards truth even through a dim light or the bottom of a glass.

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  185. Guess what’s on BBC1 tonight

    Air Force One
    (1997, Detective/Thriller) The American president is forced to take drastic measures to save his family when their plane is hijacked by Russian terrorists

    starring Harrison Ford, Gary Oldman, Glenn Close, Dean Stockwell and William H Macy.
    :)

  186. The mainstream are struggling to contain this one to the official conspiracy theory. The alternative media are far more prevalent, and accessible, now than they were in the past, so the myriad anomalies and inconsistencies can be viewed by a sizeable section of the population, very quickly.
    No wonder people are turning away from the mainstream in their droves.

  187. Here’s a starter for 10, Mr Rusbridger:

    http://therebel.org/eastman/608076-fbi-agent-in-charge-says-both-bombs-in-black-backpacks-photo-is-of-black-backpack-but-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-s-is-white

    How about doing your job? Truth to power – remember that?

    This is the world the neocons wanted, right from the get-go. Right from PNAC and the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

    One lives in hope that the mainstream might start exploring some awkward myths.

  188. The cluesforum has some really strong examinations including the comicaly highlighted oddity of police 20 or 30 yards from the cafe blast, just seconds afterwards ushering still jogging runners past it on the other side of the road. No accounting for daze and competitive instinct maybe? The get down reflex seems absent? Anyway.

    This post in particular has comparitive gifs revealing, on the face of it, some quite inexplicable movement of people in sequential images that were released of the scene.

    http://www.cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1602&start=450#p2383441

  189. A black or a white back-pack? You decide:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-fDFZF9h8Y

  190. Dreoilin,(Air Force One)

    Indeed and well spotted.

    There are no media acccidents-or schedules that fail to imprint and reinforce the Official Narrative.

    On a slight,perhaps,tangent Tamburlaine is a play by Christopher Marlowe.

    Tamerlane in Boston?

    The spooks do like their in-jokes and Marlowe was spooked up to the max-even,allegedly,in death.

    The exegesis of Tamburlaine is fascinating.There is a Syria connection.

  191. Martial Law Britain – http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/07/martial-law-britain/

    Coming to a town near you… Ooops sorry- go back to gazing at your naval.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8#!

  192. Jives,

    Timur
    or Tamerlane or Tamburlaine

    http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Tamburlaine

    was referred to (apparently) by many media folk, including Tim Marshall on Sky News (I saw/heard him myself.) But I’ve read that they all had to drop it after they discovered that Tamerlan is a very common name in the area around where the brothers’ family originated.

    I watched the beginning of the rubbish that is ‘Air Force One’, and the action started where? Kazakhstan.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One_%28film%29

    As you say, no media accidents.

  193. Jives, I included the ‘freedictionary’ link for others who might not know what you’re referring to.
    I also looked up the play by Christopher Marlowe. I am now better informed. ;)

  194. “Not everything squares” – Anderson Cooper on CNN a few seconds ago talking about the Boston bombings.

  195. O/T (kinda?)

    A new report — the result of months of investigation by five different House committees — says there was plenty of intelligence that presaged the attack, but the State Department and President Obama failed to heed the warnings or give the Defense Department the authority to respond to such an attack.

    The report exonerates the Pentagon itself, saying the military did what it could to respond once the attack began, but “was hindered on account of U.S. military forces not being properly postured” beforehand.

    In the most damning finding, House Republicans said Mr. Obama and his team lied about the attacks afterward, first by blaming mob violence spawned by an anti-Muslim video, and then wrongly saying it had misled the public because it was trying to protect an FBI investigation.

    “This progress report reveals a fundamental lack of understanding at the highest levels of the State Department as to the dangers presented in Benghazi, Libya, as well as a concerted attempt to insulate the Department of State from blame following the terrorist attacks,” the GOP investigation concluded in its 46-page report.

    The Obama administration has acknowledged providing an inaccurate explanation for the attacks early on — even though officials at the Defense Department said they knew it was a terrorist assault from the beginning.

    But Mr. Obama has vehemently denied he intended to deceive the public.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/23/house-gop-administration-blew-benghazi-response/

  196. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/23/us/ricin-suspect-released/

    Charges against Mississippi ricin suspect dropped

    (CNN) — Charges against the Mississippi man accused of sending ricin-tainted letters to President Barack Obama and other officials were dropped Tuesday, U.S. Attorney Felicia Adams said, citing “new information” that has been uncovered.

    Authorities now are investigating whether someone may have tried to falsely implicate Paul Kevin Curtis, according to a law enforcement source, speaking to CNN on condition of anonymity.

    Curtis said he wants to “get back to being normal” after being falsely accused.

  197. Sen. Rand Paul – Next Emperor of Drones or next UAV President. Heat-seeking{hot!)News

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/23/sen_rand_paul_im_not_against_using_drones_to_find_criminals.html

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