The Absence of Liberalism

by craig on July 11, 2014 3:17 pm in Uncategorized

The overruling of a European Court judgement to assert individual privacy, and the anti-democratic rushing of emergency legislation through parliament where no emergency exists, are the antithesis of liberalism. So of course is the jettisoning of all the Lib Dem manifesto pledges on civil liberties.

It is not news that Nick Clegg has become the poster boy for a politics utterly devoid of principle, organised purely around the desire of individual politicians for wealth and power. But even with all that background, I found Clegg’s enthusiastic ratcheting up of the fear factor over the “need” to protect us from virtually non-existent threats, utterly reprehensible.

At his press conference with Cameron, Clegg actually quoted the non-existent “liquid bomb plot to bring down multiple planes” as the reason these powers were needed. He even made a direct claim that telephone intercepts had been instrumental in “foiling” the “liquid bomb plot”. That is utterly untrue. The three men eventually convicted had indeed been under judge approved surveillance for a year. In that year, they made no reference to a plan to bring down airplanes, because there was no such plan. The only “evidence” of a plan to bring down multiple airplanes came from a Pakistani torture chamber. There never was a single liquid bomb. 90% of those arrested in the investigation were released without charge or found not guilty.

The three found guilty had done little more than boast and fantasise about being jihadis. That is not to say they were nice people. They may even have done some harm, though if Clegg were in any sense a Liberal he would not be supportive of imprisoning people in case they one day do some harm. But they had never made a liquid bomb or made a plan to bring down multiple airlines.

The point is, that while any ordinary member of the public could be forgiven for believing in the Liquid Bomb Plot, given all the lies of the mainstream media, Clegg has to be aware that he is spreading deliberate lies and propaganda to justify this “emergency legislation”.

Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.

In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack. We have seen, as first lead on the news bulletins and front page headlines, the jailing of two young men for “terrorism” for fighting in Syria, when there was no evidence of any kind that they had any intention of committing any violence in the UK. We have the absolute nonsense of the mobile phone in airports charade. We had days of the ludicrous argument that ISIS success in Iraq will cause terrorist attacks in the UK. Now we have the urgent need for this “emergency legislation”.

Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?

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327 Comments

  1. Seems that our masters have screwed up royally aboard and at home, and they are becoming afraid of the fallout.

  2. The absence of liberalism aka the presence of fascism.

  3. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 3:59 pm

    ” What is this leading up to?”

    It is vital that the status quo experience no Bear markets so that commerce is uninterrupted. The window-dressers want the public to feel safe to continue shopping and traveling.

    But it’s also handy as a cattle-prod nudging us all toward the trending capitulation of our civil rights, in the event of a major attack, as we’ve seen in recent history. It works very well.

    Shoe bombs and underpant ordnance make people laugh, but this guy is quite creative and could have reached an arc of design.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Asiri

    There is a lot of people who think he’s been enabled, encouraged and abetted by certain State players.

  4. The answer to your last two questions: A “state of emergency” called with troops deployed at major airports and tearful explanations from Cameron and other British nationalists that only a “united” kingdom can save us from terrorist cataclysm.

  5. You forgot to mention the water cannon in London…

  6. I was listening to some plummy-voiced suit explaining to Radio 4 that the reason “we” (that ersatz inclusiveness again: you’ll be seeing much more of it) were experiencing a “recovery” from the towering clusterfuck the bankers and hedge funds landed us (no quotes there) in, was that our workforce had become more ” flexible”. Hands up anyone who doesn’t know what that means. Ok, Timmy, I know you sometimes have trouble with these advanced concepts. Think “desperate”.

  7. I couldn’t agree more, Craig, regarding the Emergency Legislation, and I can’t understand why more people aren’t making a fuss. Do we want to be a country with a semblance of democracy or become East Germany?

    It is clear that our MPs no longer represent our interests, as one person said very articulately on Question Time last night, although his answer was cut short.

  8. This could also making people think twice about coming forward as whistleblowers or victims regarding the child abuse in high places inquiry.

  9. Once the IRA threat was gone, London needed to invent a new “existential threat”. Thanks to Israeli Mossad UK got 7/7 and the US 9/11 to depict Muslims as the new threat. The latest threat to British national security came from French comedian Dieudonne M’bala M’bala.

    Long live the Queen of England and Canada.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/02/04/jewish-lobby-bans-dieudonne-from-britain/

  10. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO – could you ever post some objective source than Israeli Hasbara Wikipedia to support your claim?

  11. As a friend rightly pointed out – if it’s OK for the government to attempt to intervene in Syria on the side of the ‘rebels’ then isn’t it slightly duplicitous for private citizens not to be able to make their own minds up?

    Here’s larks – can anyone remember Cameron’s pledge to have a Great Repeal Bill? No, me neither, me neither.

    Cheers Craig

  12. @Rehmat: Perhaps like me you grew up in the UK at a time when we didn’t have an “existential threat”. I thought the anti-Irish legislation in the mid-1970s was over the top, for something that only affected the tiniest minority, and as I remember it, that was “only” 24 hours detention without charge. How things have changed since then!

  13. You have to hand it to them… a 7-Day online shopping outfit just advised me, via email, to buy their “Emergency Powerbank Chargers – avoid your electronics being confiscated!”

  14. @Glenn: Just think how well surveillance cameras manufacturers have done out of this in the last 10 years.

  15. Keith Crosby

    11 Jul, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    It’s not the absence of liberalism, it’s the essence. When liberalism, the ideology of the boss class, ceases to protect their privileges, it mutates into Stalinism and fascism, the bastard C20th and C21st children of John Stuart Mill (“… of his own free will, paid for by millions of dead Africans, Asians and Irish….”)

  16. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 4:28 pm

    “could you ever post some objective source than Israeli Hasbara Wikipedia to support your claim?”

    I’m using the link for general info on the man. What information do you object to, or is it just the source? It had nothing to do with my ‘claim’.

  17. I’ve just been informed via tannoy that anything I leave unattended could be destroyed by the security services. And we’ve been putting up with this for years now. Is it going to be worse than East Germany?

  18. “What is this leading up to?”

    I guess we’ll find out soon enough. The legislation expires in 2016.

    If it’s as reasonable as is being made out by all main parties then there#s no good reason for railroading the legislation through without proper scrutiny and debate. That’s precisely what happened with the Patriot Act in the US.

    There may be some small, innocuously-worded provision in there that is actually very nasty and we’re not allowed to know what it is until it has become law.

  19. Very early after this was announced I posted a comment that occurred to me. To the effect that this happened just after the paedos in parliament ordure began to hit the fan. I still think this is a key part of it. Dan Huil 4.00 p.m. is very interesting indeed.

  20. A dissapointing politician? How surprising.

    Clegg’s recent betrayals are nothing new and but peanuts compared to others before. One hundred years ago the party was split as grass root members denounced Asquith and Churchill for embracing WW1. We all know how that turned out.

    Of course Craig’s latest favourite party, the Green Party, is just another compromise and corruption machine.

    The party system is fundamentally flawed to be hijacked by those pursuing wealth and power. Rare individuals who resist temptation are marginalised or compromised. Maybe you’ve noticed.

    No more endless disappointment! No more Groundhog Day Lala Land! Social democrats, abandon your faith, embrace the revolutionary bubbling underneath! Radical decentralisation now!

  21. If Craig, and a few others, think this is the sort of thing that won’t happen in an independent Scotland, Kenny MaCaskill’s words on the matter bear repeating-

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/snp-attacks-lack-of-consultation-on-emergency-data-retention-law.24727624?utm_source=www.heraldscotland.com&utm_medium=RSS%20Feed&utm_campaign=Scottish%20Political%20News

    A rough translation -
    1. Why did youse feckers not keep me in in the loop on this ?
    2. No matter, when we’re running our own show we’ll legislate for something very similar.

    It’ll be interesting to see how the SNP, and the other ‘minor parties’, vote on this at Westminster. Caroline Lucas from the Greens will almost certainly vote against, but will the others ?

  22. Weekend Edition July 11-13, 2014

    The Return of George Orwell and Big Brother’s War
    On Israel, Ukraine and Truth
    by JOHN PILGER

    The other night, I saw George Orwells’s 1984 performed on the London stage. Although crying out for a contemporary interpretation, Orwell’s warning about the future was presented as a period piece: remote, unthreatening, almost reassuring. It was as if Edward Snowden had revealed nothing, Big Brother was not now a digital eavesdropper and Orwell himself had never said, “To be corrupted by totalitarianism, one does not have to live in a totalitarian country.”

    /..
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/11/on-israel-ukraine-and-truth/

  23. “Still more ludicrous was the failure to address the elephant in the room – Snowden’s revelation that the NSA and GCHQ indulge in vast mass surveillance, of the communications of millions of people in the UK, with absolutely no regard for the legal framework anyway.”

    This is what it’s really about. Our special relationship with the power that, via the UK and other country members of the 5 eyes, are spying on everybody including their own citizens. Germany, the leading power in Europe, wants out of this having discovered that it is one of the main targets, and is acrrying other countries with it (excepting the UK). And following NATO’s sponsored war in Ukraine which is not all that far from Germany, coupled with what everybody has seen NATO do in the Middle East, there are justified fears that the US intentions are to create a world of failed states because of its own wanked-out economy. Wake up world!

    As to the dissenters who said that to hold a referendum in Eastern Ukraine in weeks, are pretty quiet over this undemocratic porcess in our own country. Last night Hazel Blears was on Channel 4 News defending this rushed-through law. Of course she supported the war in Iraq too. It demonstrates that we have no main party in parliament that represents civil libertiies any more. The state of my country has become a disgrace.

  24. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 6:08 pm

    ” One of my aims in doing so was to ensure that there was a radical left faction in the party constantly pushing it in a progressive direction ”

    I sense that ‘progressives’ over there are similar to those here, Phil.

    They are jacked-in to the veracity of the system and want to change the direction mainly for voter reform and ethnocentric issues without a perspective on global issues. Maybe I should say they are less focused on World matters because the local issues seem more controllable. Am I giving them too much credit?

  25. The court ruling was delivered that the EU directive for snooping on its citizens is invalid/illegal/prohibited in April. However the emergency “measures” are now being enacted and as Tom Watson put it; “its a stitch up”, further elaborating “all three parties have in secret come to an agreement to pass these emergency laws”.

    The draconian snooping and monitoring is now made legal to allay the fears of the Internet/Telecom service providers that are keeping every transaction record of every customer and handing it over to the SIS.

    The legal powers to snoop circumvent any probable or penitential law suit brought against these snooping corporates. Fact that the number of snooper corporations are around 784 (included the privatised Post Office) is the reason for such a bums rush to pass the emergency laws.

    The fear and loathing volumetric have been turned up a few notches in the due course and all the air passengers are to be frisked, groped, Xrayed, and their phone and laptops confiscated (there is a down turn in iwotsit market and there is a need for better sales figures) as well as the latest capture and charging of an arch tayrrorist Abdul Rahman Benhammedi

    … appeared at Westminster Magistrates’ Court accused of possession of an article for a purpose connected with terrorism.

    The charge relates to a USB memory stick containing sniper training manuals, the court heard.

    Although for some reason the medjia has been pretty much staying away, and the story does not seem to get much traction.

  26. Craig, the government’s spokesfolk waffled last night about controls being put in place with regard to government spying.

    I do not know if the mosque does its own spying on the non=you/apne Muslims or whether they get their spydata from the police/local intelligence network, but in either case what I say to my wife in private in my own house is somehow relayed to them.

    I can understand how as newcomers to a society whose ancestors persecuted them it must give them a bit of adrenolin to be able to watch the shortcomings of us new Muslims either through the UK intelligence network or through their own IT knowledge.

    Fact is, there is no restraint on anyone who does not fear Allah, who has made spying Haram, or a worldly power that will physically restrain them. Am I saying that the Muslims only understand force? Yes, but they want to be on the side of force, not the receiving end.

    The punishment mentioned in the Qur’an for those who have the knowledge of the truth of Islam, but who do not follow the good example of Islam, nor do they teach those who have never seen Islam that good example is Double Punishment.

    And it is also mentioned in the Qur’an that those who will be in the worst situation on the Day of Judgement is those knowledgeable people who thought they were on guidance, but who oppressed the people secretly and openly, thinking that they were immune from observation by Allah and from His punishment.

    If the Muslims are doing it, and the Corporate business are definitely doing it, I am convinced that all rungs of government are definitiely utilising the information gathered from spying to nefarious and illegal ends.

  27. Craig,

    You are rising in my expectations. I just wish you would “come out” about 9/11. I do realise the risks to you if you did, and why so few people have. Whilst “Liberalism” may be dead so far as The Psychopaths who think they are in control of us are concerned, whilst they bomb themselves…or rather bomb millions of innocent people around the world in our name…in every way conceivable…the concept of liberalism and basic human “Christian Charity” for want of a better word…as strange as that may seem…is alive and well, and demonstrably so at the personal level. The vast majority of people do their best to completely ignore these horrible people in power. I can understand why. Apologies etc…

    I wish you well.

    Tony

  28. The apparatus of government spying is available to all schools and all major employers and employment agencies, to any of those custodes who have no custodes over them. Those who utilise spying have no faith, because it is forbidden, so it follows that they have no faith to prevent them from the temptations of abusing the power of spying. People of faith do not indulge in this particularly dirty sin.

  29. Court Jouster

    11 Jul, 2014 - 6:44 pm

    ”What is this leading up to?” Why at this moment?

    It can only mean one thing, the “YES” vote is winning, they have to find a way to void the September date with a view to keeping it in permanent deep freeze.

    But how? CMs court jesters from the false flag fraternity are keeping their heads well below the parapet, no clue there then?

  30. Any sign of tighter or more heavy-handed “security” on Scotland – rest-of-UK flights in particular?

  31. Guano,

    I am kind of with you, except that I don’t do religion. I do however respect anyone who does do religion, providing religion is done in its purest original form, which is one of love, rather than control. As strange as this may seem (I gave up my Catholic religion at the age of 15 on moral grounds), I do believe in the power of prayer (I also love the most blessed Music of The Muslim Call to Prayer – it is just as good – and strangely very similar to Gregorian Chant)…

    So can I ask you to pray for someone I haven’t seen for 34 years, and have had almost no contact with in all this time. I am blessed with a wonderful wife and family. So is she. She was very nearly my wife, but something happened to pull us apart. We had never betrayed each other, and I have never betrayed my wife. I have told my wife that we got in contact again via Facebook. I have spoken to her once on the telephone. Today she sent me a message. She is not well. Please pray for her to get better. If you understand these things at this level…you do not need to know my name, nor hers…that’s how these things work. Don’t ask me to explain…I have already told her, that lots of people are praying for her, and that she will get better. Yes, she is going through the entire conventional diagnosis and treatment. I insisted…that rather being fobbed off by her doctor to insist on seeing a consultant…and she has. She may not have cancer…the results are not yet in…and even if she has…it may well be curable…with the help of our prayers (well they won’t do any harm).

    Thank You, and God Bless

    Tony

  32. There’a a Liberty campaign to encourage people to write to their MP about this deplorable “emergency” legislation. I sent the following to mine this morning. I have little expectation of more than her immediate automatic reply – but worth at least warning staff who handle constituency correspondence of this impending epidemic of infectious spinelessness. My subject line was:

    “Urgent – please reject the Home Office’s “emergency” legislation”

    “Dear Mrs Jowell

    I write as a constituent, to express deep concern at the Coalition’s declared intention to rush through “emergency” laws compelling phone and internet providers, in flagrant breach of the (mandatory) Court of Justice ruling in April, to collect and retain blanket and indiscriminate records of our personal communications data.

    It would require extraordinary primary legislation for the existing permission of limited phone-tapping and mail interception (carefully circumscribed by judicial authority) to be transformed into a system in which agents of the state were allowed to intercept all UK postal mail and record the dates and frequency of all messages or parcels being sent to all addressees. The same goes for the addresses from which they are sent if that meta-data is on the outside – as I do with all my letters and parcels in order to facilitate their return, unopened, if they prove to be undeliverable. The collection of such postal mega-data would also require a ludicrous and immoral misuse of resources, both sufficient reasons never to contemplate such legislation. Until now The Queen’s subjects have enjoyed security of personal communication, perhaps protected by Her head on UK postage stamps.

    Its being easy to collect and retain such mega-data in the case of electronic communications makes that neither desirable nor any less a misuse of resources. I do not wish legislation passed that will impoverish and endanger civil society, promoting a burgeoning but unproductive economy in which the fastest growth is of numbers in the state and private security sectors, staking out the grounds of every citizen, making the Englishman’s home not his castle but an electronically-paroled prison whose keys jangle from Westminster and Whitehall keyboards.

    The proposed measure offends deeply against a proper sense of ourselves as belonging within and being admired contributors to a European liberal tradition. More particularly, the manner of execution – a spurious emergency, conspiratorially contrived with Labour leadership support, to suppress debate and public accountability – strikes at the fundamental principles of parliamentary democracy and the rule of law at the heart of the British constitution.

    I plead with you, therefore, to resist this deeply disquieting further erosion of our civil liberties and cherished British values.

    I will not vote at the next general election for any political party which has whipped its members to vote in favour of this proposed legislation. However, I will make an exception for individual sitting MPs who defy their party whip in order to vote against this shameful legislation which distrusts ordinary citizens and allows the state to terrorize us and infantilize our institutions.

    Yours sincerely “

  33. Ukraine in turmoil. Poroshenko pledges to kill hundreds for every one of his fascist government’s losses. Very reminiscent of pledges and actions by Israel against Palestinians. Sorry, a bit off topic.

    http://nsnbc.me/2014/07/11/heavy-fighting-in-eastern-ukraine-we-will-kill-hundreds-of-them-for-each-of-ours-poroshenko/

  34. “It can only mean one thing, the “YES” vote is winning”

    Not according to all the opinion polls of the last couple of years. Not much there to cause undue alarm in the City as far as I can tell:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

    Don’t you think this might concern everyone on this island, not just the Scots?

  35. Tony Op

    Everybody will taste death. My sister is looking after a man with cancer and in the course of his latter stages of illness he left his worldly distractions and joined a church. Look how death focuses the mind on the reality of life which was totally inaccessible before.

    Islam goes further, by refining our understanding who to worship to just Allah/God, because it is He who sustains every atom of this planet and every moment of our consciousness. All of that is written in a record.

    People repent before death and all of us have plenty to repent for, but people don’t know where to go. The signposts have all been removed. As Jesus said about the rabbis: Matthew 23:12

    “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.”
    [N.B. Nothing about taking power from government spy agencies here]

    13″But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.…”

    Please direct your friend to the Oneness of Allah, because belief in His Oneness and in his last messenger Muhammad SAW is the key to heaven and Heaven is a reprieve for all who sincerely believe in Him without any partnership with Jesus or Mary or any other thing.
    Amen

  36. Skip the Advertisements if you want…though the Muslim Advertisement is Better Than The Gregorian One. Believe this or not, but I had the idea for what Youtube did a few years later, (3 years before)..and even Registered The Domain Name…but I thought If I do This..Publicising..Live Music…I will Get Sued To Hell. Do I Really want to end up in a Courtroom Facing an American Music? “Executive”.

    I Thought Nah…

    I will go For ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR instead

    I will Face That EVIL in a COURT OF LAW

    Now The Music..Seriously… Both are Really Good

    “Beautiful Islamic Call To Prayer”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe8qRj12OhY

    “Over 1 Hour OF Gorgeous Gregorian Chant -Chillout Megamix”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ElL8hdQD_4

    Tony

  37. Iain
    I am in a holiday field with a dying battery so cannot check but I am fairly certain the automatic systems record and keep all sorts of data about your post and packages. Have done for years enshrined in the grim RIPA laws.

    You write to your MP knowing it makes no difference. You say you will not vote for a complicit party then say you will. Ah the muddle of faith!

    The system is dead! Long live the system!

  38. John Pilger wrote on 13th May that the US is dragging us into war with Russia

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger

    How long can Russia tolerate the destruction of eastern Ukraine?
    Perhaps the citizens of the UK feel detached from events in main land Europe but from my perspective its a stones throw away and it already looks as if allegiances might just be changing in preparation for something…

  39. The American Response

    “Van halen – Ain’t Talkin’ ‘Bout Love”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNWArv4J4J8

    The British Response

    “Motorhead – No Class”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlU715lYMtU

    Tony

  40. @Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    Are you saying that Netanyahu’s anti-Iran, anti-Syria, anti-Hamas, anti-Hizbullah – and anti-Abbas filth is a statement from Talmud?

    Take for example, last month, Netanyahu in his first comment on ISIS victory in Iraq, said that Washington should stay out of the Iraqi conflict – and let the Sunni militants defeat the Shia-dominated government of prime minister al-Maliki and break-up Iraq. “This will weaken Iranian influence in the Arab region,” said Netanyahu during his address at Tel Aviv University’s INSS think-tank.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/06/30/netanyahu-isis-is-good-for-israel/

  41. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 8:40 pm

    Craig

    “What is this leading up to?”
    _________________

    I suppose that this refers to the immediate consequences of what you call the fear ratchet in the previous sentence, but allow me to use it to ask you a more general question.

    Do you share the often-expressed opinion of various commenters on this blog that the UK is either already a “fascist state” or that it is rapidly turning into one?

    ***********************

  42. Phil – you say “You write to your MP knowing it makes no difference. You say you will not vote for a complicit party then say you will. Ah the muddle of faith!”

    Not “no difference”, even if slight. At least my MP’s staff will be logging the messages to her; and I even hope that an FoI request might reveal the number of messages to MPs asking them to vote for or to vote against this shameful legislation.

    Note too that there’s a tight condition attached to my voting for any party complicit in this legislation: that I would only consider doing so if my constituency MP has shown independence of judgement by rebelling against her party whip and voting against the Home Office’s draft “emergency” legislation. Why is that “muddled”?

  43. The Canadians Responded With American Woman – Guess Who…

    So I had retired and thought wtf is going on…and after The London Bombings..and I seriously Fell Out Well ….I Got Banned From The Very Pouplar English Website I had been posting on for Years…

    I wrote

    “All Terrorists are Cunts”

    this was the Headline after The London Bombings…when I thought My Wife Had Been Caught Up with Them…She was in London…when The Birds Went Crazy…as I Was watching it them..I didn’t know what had happened…but the Birds Did…It was The Ripple Effect…The Birds sensed The Evil on 7/7 and passed it on…

    I turned the Radio and The TV on..I tried to contact my wife…

    The Birds Knew – I had Never Seen Anything Like It…

    I Didn’t Hear The Explosions..But The Birds Did…

    “ALL TERRORISTS ARE CUNTS”

    So I thought how do I understand what is going on…

    I was Banned From The UK

    So I logged on To Alternet…In California in the USA..and I was there in their Virtual World..and I made Friends with Sister_Lauren…over the Years…I kept asking her to come over to the UK for a Festival or what..My wife is Really Nice..and we are used to people staying in our home and our tent…

    Then Nick Turse Got Appointed….Yes I know His History Too…and He saw what I had been writing for the previous 5 years…and he just Banned Me..and Deleted 5 Years Worth of what I had been writing from here…in England Trying To Make Friends and Understand Americans….

    “guess who- american woman”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkqfpkTTy2w

    Sister_Lauren Has Almost Single Handedly Changed The Laws in The USA…

    And She is Still Invited To Our Home in The UK

    What a Girl

    Tony

  44. ‘The answer to your last two questions: A “state of emergency” called with troops deployed at major airports and tearful explanations from Cameron and other British nationalists that only a “united” kingdom can save us from terrorist cataclysm.
    Maybe a False Flag at the Commonwealth Games which allows the Government to impose Martial Law and cancel the Ref?

  45. Be nice if the College of Europe were to strike Nick Clegg off their books. After all they are supposed to be supporting human rights and European institutions.

    Fat chance, though, I’m afraid.

  46. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:06 pm

    Nice quote from Nevermind on the “water damage” thread, which some of you might have missed:

    “I don’t think that Israel is innocent in the abduction and killing of its own teenagers/soldiers, it was their kind of mini 911 designed to garner publicity to Bibi’s policies,…”

    Anyone here agree with that, or care to comment? :)

    *********************

  47. What they worry about is an attack on them. That’s why they put all those security measures round parliament after 9/11 and did nothing much to protect ordinary people. That’s why during the cold war they had shelters built for them and we didn’t.

    There is absolutely no measure that isn’t too great when its a matter of saving their wretched skins from the small terrorist threat they’ve created. By invading Afghanistan, and Iraq, and supporting Israeli occupation.

    Unfortunately its ordinary people who get targetted as on 7/7 anyway.

  48. John Goss 6.06 post

    You’re completely right.

  49. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:15 pm

    And from the one and only Mary, speaking on the Doune the Rabbit Hole thread:

    “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!”

    Sounds like the Hamas “Drive the Jews into the sea”, doesn’t it.

    Agreement with or comments on this, anyone?

  50. Slightly off topic – into the area of Neo-Nazism aka Ukraine which is aided by the Neo-Liberals / Neo-Cons / Neo-Scumbags.

    The Ukrainian military has been using multiple launch rocket systems against civilian targets in various towns such as Slavyansk. The varied nature of the urban terrain makes it difficult to appreciate the full impact of these systems. The Novorossian army has finally found a system of their own and used it as intended against a military target, in this instance the 79th Motorized Brigade. This site shows the effect of MLRS weapons. The 79th Motorized Brigade no longer exists as a functional military unit. This was one strike on one day unlike the day-in, day-out attacks the Ukrainian army perpetrated against civilians.

    There may be up to 400 dead in this strike. An awful way to go for the troops involved. However, they signed up for this, the civilians they targeted didn’t. The MSM are happily residing in das Wolkenkuckucksheim regarding Neo-Nazi Ukraine.

  51. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:21 pm

    Liz and Dick are beginning to look like a very strange couple.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/truth-about-iraq_796387.html?nopager=1

    “America must win this war. We won’t defeat our enemies by retreating. We won’t win if we adopt a false narrative about the past, fail to learn the lessons of history, or seek security in disengagement and isolationism. We will only defeat our enemies if we are clear-eyed about the threat and have the will to do what it takes for as long as it takes—until the war is won.”

  52. @Habby:

    I object very strongly to your mocking of views expressed on this blog that relate to freedom of speech, the UN charter of human rights, what our forebears fought for in ww2, and “British”? principles that go back hundreds of years (see below).

    Anyone…

    I’m not a legal expert at all, and need some help here, but I have a faint suspicion that the 1970s onwards anti-terror legislation runs counter to the principles laid down back in 1215. If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? I honestly don’t know, and would like to be enlightened, especially as it is the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta next year…

  53. Iain Orr,
    Is that an open source letter in your comment?

  54. The Irish Explained it to me as it is

    This song often gets played at most of the occasional parties My Wife and I still Have..We ain’t Dead Yet…

    Often The Reaction..I Turn it Up…is Complete Silence as They Listen to The Song..and if it ain’t…I turn it up LOUDER

    “Dead Can Dance – The Wind That Shakes The Barley”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2-2lJnFM1c

    Tony

  55. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:31 pm

    “If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? ”

    Peacewisher; If you look at Common Law (US Constitution is based on CL) versus Admiralty Law, you will find they use whichever is more convenient for their purposes. Admiralty Law is more imperious (the Captain’s power) but has no legal foundation in non-maritime issues.

    E.g; Vehicle codes are not Law, but the State is happy to have citizens believe so.

  56. Very close to tears, Tony. I didn’t know the real title. It is said that ladies with haunting voices like that still perform in pubs all over Ireland at the week-ends.

  57. Writing about the latest flap over NSA/CIA spying on Germany, today’s New York Times reported that, after the Snowden revelations last year, Berlin asked the Americans for a “no spy” agreement “similar to the one the United States has with the English-speaking victors of World War II: Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand”.

    Berlin claims that Washington promised to enter into negotiations over such an agreement, according to the NYT.

    “But…American officials say there never was such a promise, and that German officials blanched when they heard what kind of responsibilities they would have for intelligence collection and cyberoperations around the world if they ever joined that elite club”.

  58. YouKnowMyName

    11 Jul, 2014 - 9:44 pm

    technologically speaking,
    The current unwarranted over-collection of citizen correspondence, content, meta-data and general interests puts us all into digital pigeon-holes. Correlated, machine-analysed, Bayesian profiled, the military industrial complex is able to keyword search an entire year’s stored internet use of a whole UK size country, looking for individual keywords, drawing up lists, statistics, victims. There are also many distributed boxes around the world that can make real-time digital signature analysis of live streaming internet, looking for specific “scarfing” triggers, selectors. These boxes exist everywhere, even Malawi, the interception market is booming! The American Navy is being re-trained as cyberwarriors…

    At present, these unwarranted systems are used, at best, in Germany 50% for the spooks & 50% for the police, in UK it’s more like 99% of the product for the spooks as the intel product remains “hearsay” in UK courts. US NSA has obviously been the lead, using FBI as a front-man, inserting their technology into our society since the 1990′s, with back doors, bugdoors in everything, devices, software & infrastructure – if you can think of ten ways they might attack the internet – then their clever engineers have actually already found thirteen ways of abuse!

    Currently, I think the only effect in our society of these UKUSA ‘mastery of the internet’ ideas – is to freeze the evolution of devices, systems & infrastructure – slowing the developments to the next generation of devices. e.g. Microsoft universal messaging which was delayed until the appropriate NSA/ZNIS monitoring was devised. Likewise what should be the 5th Gen telephone (a digital decentralised mesh network topology, cheaper, safer, greener) is as yet unavailable.

    There remains the danger that as well as freezing the evolution of technology, that they might freeze the evolution of society, denying, disrupting the future radicals, with soft assassinations or just a subtle deprivation of benefits. I’ve no evidence that that is happening in the UK, with our current fairly average politicians. UK is still a nice place, my friends in gchq, hmgcc, ukntac are honest hard-working people.

    The near Future, with these enormously powerful but not yet understood dual-use weapons available, and the eventual rogue politicians driving it is one of my biggest worries. PRISM, XKeyscore, FoxAcid are currently (mostly) gathering data – but they can equally be used for instantly re-writing data, “deep packet injection”, that is a scary time when you can no longer trust what you’re reading – you ask for a WWW page – but there’s no guarantee, no trust, that the page anyone might see is the page that they asked for. It could easily have been manipulated in any direction, pro-this-faction, anti-the-other, in fact the whole UK population in 2020 might all have completely different ideas about who won that year’s election. Hmmm. Ubiquitous Digital Canary time!

  59. Thank you Iain for the pro-forma. I will send it to my MP.

    In about three weeks’ time I will receive a cream 1st Class envelope bearing the embossed HoC stamp containing a letter in reply printed on matching stationery which will consist of meaningless balm and attached to it a central office hand-out this time from Mrs May more than likely.

    I have quite a collection! Must have cost a fortune. I write via e-mail but the postal reply is probably used to make it more difficult to disseminate the contents.

  60. “There may be up to 400 dead in this strike. An awful way to go for the troops involved.”

    I agree and blame Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko, et al for these, as you say, military deaths. What a fine mess the US has got Ukraine into. I bet there is no decent person outside of Eastern Ukraine who would not want to go back to the days of Yakunovich. But the sad thing is Ukraine would have been a largely united country before western intervention and a senseless coup d’etat. Now Crimea is lost and very soon Eastern Ukraine will cede to and be accepted by Russia. When did the Yanks and NATO do any good, anywhere?

  61. Thank you, Ben. As it is called “The House of Commons”, one might assume that it’s purpose is to uphold the common law. More Orwellian inversion? The current name appears to be “The House of Uncommon Interests”.

  62. @John:

    I’ve a feeling that the US neocon wing won’t like to see it’s pet project in danger. There will be reprisals. They’ll want to take Crimea back to show their new best friends that they are more powerful than Russia, and I think some of them are probably crazy enough to play a poker game with “we win” and “ww3″ as the possible outcomes. Israel must have their noses a bit out of joint with all this shift from them, and the focus on helping Poreshenko, who is probably killing more civilians than they are.

  63. طيزك حمرا.

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    @Peacewisher, anti-terror law is the greatest! It even stops US aggression. In 1992, when the US was going to attack Libya for the Lockerbie bombing, Libya invoked the relevant law, The Montreal Convention, which has dispute settlement provisions. Since the US framed Libya for the Lockerbie bombing, it would have been kind of awkward when that came out, so the rough tough USA backed down like a little sissy bitch and ran home. No war!

    Now, the bullshit fake terror legislation that you see in pathetic little totalitarian statelets like North Korea or the UK, that’s different. Laws like that compromise the sovereignty of states. The world can intervene. The international community is obligated to make those shitty little states grow up and accept their responsibilities. The international community exerts mounting pressure, peacefully, through treaty bodies, charter bodies, special procedures and regional or bilateral capacity-building. The pressure is hidden from you as a citizen but you can see the US and the UK squirming and thrashing to escape it, if you know where to look.

  64. “If so, how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law? ”

    Habeas corpus, a basic of English law, although established in the seventeenth century, goes back in one form or another to the Magna Carta. Even in the late eighteenth century Treason Trials people suspected terrorists/plotters (mostly members of corresponding societies) were never held in captivity for longer than six months without trial. That is what makes recent anti-terror laws so wrong. The one introduced in 2000 shows that there was a plan to target Muslims long before NATO countries initiated 9/11, and it is this act that has just been used to hold a suspect with a USB stick allegedly containing sniper instructions.

    http://www.itv.com/news/granada/story/2014-07-11/man-in-court-accused-of-terror-offences/

  65. TTIP is an affront to democracy
    By Miriam Ross

    Prime minister David Cameron loves to portray himself as the defender of British sovereignty in his dealings with the EU. But as the volume of his anti-EU posturing increases, he is busy pushing for a deal that will hand the sovereignty of his country, and others, to multinational companies.

    The next round of negotiations on the EU-US trade deal (also known as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership or TTIP) begin in Brussels on Tuesday 15 July. Talks started last July, and proponents of the deal seem to have hoped to rush it through with as little scrutiny as possible. They have been disappointed, as opposition to the deal has risen rapidly in both sides of the Atlantic.

    In the US, trade unions and Democrat congressmen and women have prevented President Obama from fast-tracking the deal. Campaigners in Germany forced the European Commission to open a public consultation on one of the most controversial proposals in the deal – a plan to set up corporate tribunals with the power to override the decisions of elected governments. Some 100,000 people responded to the consultation – the highest number ever recorded. And Belgian MEPs were among dozens of campaigners arrested for protesting against the deal ahead of the European elections.

    On Saturday 12 July, towns and cities across Britain will see health campaigners, environmentalists, anti-poverty groups and trade unionists protesting under ‘No TTIP’ banners.

    As the diverse array of people lining up to oppose it suggests, the TTIP deal would affect many different aspects of life. But the common thread connecting objections to the deal is this: ,if agreed TTIP would greatly diminish the ability of governments to make decisions for the benefit of their citizens. Democracy itself is under threat.

    The part of the deal that has most enraged critics is a plan to set up supra-national corporate courts, in which companies can sue governments over decisions they think might affect their profits – even where governments have clearly acted in the public interest. This may sound like the stuff of fiction, unthinkable to anyone with any faith the democratic progress. In fact, it’s already happening.

    Under similar parallel legal systems, tobacco giant Philip Morris is currently suing both the Australian and the Uruguayan governments for, respectively, introducing plain packaging for cigarettes, and daring to print health warnings on packaging. Veolia, the multinational waste and energy company, sued Egypt for introducing the minimum wage. And Argentina was sued for freezing energy prices to protect consumers hit by the country’s financial collapse.

    In Britain, campaigners fighting to defend the cherished National Health Service fear that if a future government tried to renationalize the parts of the service that have already been privatized, it would be sued. And the need for companies to even use these courts could melt away – fear of being hit for billions of dollars could prevent governments from implementing policies that might raise the ire of the boardrooms. As well as preventing governments from acting in the public interest in the future, the TTIP deal would also sweep away years of hard-won regulations designed to protect people and the environment. One of the key issues on the table in the Brussels talks will be food standards, which are generally set much higher in Europe than in the United States. US agribusiness wants Europe to drop its ban on hormone-treated beef and pork and chlorine-washed chicken, and the American companies that sell these products have US Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack on side.

    Financial regulation is another major battleground. Following the financial crisis, the US introduced an inadequate smattering of controls on its finance sector in an attempt to prevent another collapse. But the big banks see even this weak regulation as unacceptable, and are pushing for TTIP to knock it on the head.

    Over the past few years, more and more of us have started to see our governments as acting in the interests of the rich and powerful. The EU-US trade deal could be seen as something of a test case. If we are to drag governments back to our sides, to be accountable to the people they were elected to represent, the battle to stop the TTIP deal is one we have to win.

    http://newint.org/blog/2014/07/11/ttip-democracy-trade/

  66. Iain

    You are satisfied that a beaureaucrat logs something somewhere? It’ll make no difference to the law and how it will be used. Really, that’ll do? Could you be rationalising your complete insignificance in a system that you believe in.

    So your MP rebels but the law still passes. You will give her your vote and thus vote for the party that enacted this legislation. That is a muddle.

    The system is dead! Long live the system!

  67. Clark

    Wasn’t the Greenwald/Snowden sh*tfest suppose to make the politicians retreat from the surveillance state? How’s that working out?

    Anyway battery flashing red. Time running out. Gotta go.

  68. Resident Dissident

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:30 pm

    What is going on in Eastern Ukraine from a more neutral source than those favoured by the useless idiot

    “The bulk of the abductions are being perpetrated by armed separatists, with the victims often subjected to stomach-turning beatings and torture. There is also evidence of a smaller number of abuses by pro-Kyiv forces.”

    There are no comprehensive or reliable figures on the number of abductions, but the Ukrainian Ministry of Interior has reported nearly 500 cases between April and June 2014. The UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission for Ukraine has recorded 222 cases of abduction in the last three months. ”

    The full report can be read here:

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/ukraine-mounting-evidence-abduction-and-torture-2014-07-11

  69. Resident Dissident

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:39 pm

    Did anyone notice how many Russians with past or current connections to the Putin regime were involved in the recent Tory fundraising shindig?

  70. “I’ve a feeling that the US neocon wing won’t like to see it’s pet project in danger. There will be reprisals.”

    Perhaps. Crimea has long been a naval base of the Russians and they will not let it go easily. Hopefully commonsense will prevail and Poroshenko and the other lunatics will see that they are in an unwinnable position. Eastern Ukraine will hate Kiev for years to come even if they get occupied. As you are a Peacewisher (me too) you will join me in hoping that this is an end to the madness!

  71. Talk of IDS getting the chop in a reshuffle plus Kenneth Clarke and Lansley.

    Esther McVey to replace IDS. Gawd help us in that case!

  72. ….. if you know where to look.

    Would you be kind enough to enlighten us all, as to where should we start at?

  73. RD, As you know I do not agree with torture whether it is the Eastern Liberation forces or Pro Kiev forces or your friends in Guantanamo and US Supermax prisons, or Karimov’s regime in Uzbekistan. The psyche behind torture is beyond me. But perhaps it has something to do with retaliation for the killing of civilians by those supportive of various factions.

    http://professorsblogg.com/2014/06/03/what-responsibility-does-sweden-have-in-the-massacres-of-civilians-perpetrated-by-ukraine-junta/

    Retaliation in the form of torture is abhorrent. I am behind Amnesty in bringing this to our attention. How to stop it, anywhere in the world, is, like recourse to torture itself, beyond me.

  74. Clark

    Wasn’t the Greenwd/Snowden fest suppose to curb the surveillance state? How’s that working out?

  75. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 10:54 pm

    Peacewisher

    “I object very strongly to your mocking of views expressed on this blog that relate to freedom of speech, the UN charter of human rights, what our forebears fought for in ww2, and “British”? principles that go back hundreds of years ”
    ___________________

    Sorry you feel like that, Peacewisher. But I should be more inclined to sympathise with you if you could show me where I’m “mocking” those principles as such, as opposed to mocking the exaggerations, untruths, evasions and sloppy thinking of a good number of the Eminences squatting on this blog.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “how can a law just get passed by the House of Commons that ignores whether it is compatable with common law?”

    ______________________

    Because statute law, as passed by Parliament, can supersede common law and “compatibility” with common law is not a criterion for statute law.

  76. Sorry repeating myself. Feel free to delete dip and this mods.

  77. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:00 pm

    “The pressure is hidden from you as a citizen but you can see the US and the UK squirming and thrashing to escape it, if you know where to look.”

    It’s an International secret, fedup. All we need is patience.

  78. By the way RD, whenever you get turned over in an argument, which is most of the time, you resort to attacking those who roll you on your back. You’ve done it before. It gains you no brownie points calling me a “useless idiot” but shows you up for what you are. I’ll let you work that one out.

  79. Glad I missed it.

    Question Time’s ‘passionate highlander’ is the William Wallace of the Better Together campaign
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/question-times-passionate-highlander-is-the-william-wallace-of-the-better-together-campaign-9599554.html

    The whole programme

    David Dimbleby presents Question Time from Inverness. Scotland votes on independence in September 2014, and the panel features campaigners for both sides from a range of occupations: singer-songwriter Ricky Ross, Daily Record columnist and agony aunt Joan Burnie, businessman and chairman of Orion Group Alan Savage, and the Scotland and British Lions rugby player Scott Hastings.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b049bj5f

  80. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:08 pm

    Peacewisher

    John Goss’s post at 22h02 reinfirces my point, I think. Habeas corpus as it operates today derives not from common law or for that matter i any meaningful sense from the Magna Carta but from various Acts of Parliament, in other words, from statute law.

  81. Well of course I realise the problem and I am merely trying to document the event…We got old..but we didn’t lose our Love and Determination To Make Things That are Good Work…They Haven’t

    You Fuckers Are Completely Fucking Useless…

    You 50 Year Olds Are Not My Son’s Generation…and You certainly Aren’t Mine…

    What a Bunch of Completely Useless Twats…

    Nearly Everyone with Any Talent RESIGNED

    Smarmy without a Brain Cell Between You.

    Craig Murray..just about Crept In..Oh Come On You Can’t seriously Expect Us To Believe This Nonsense

    The Kids Are All Right.

    Tony

  82. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:14 pm

    Mary re Question Time

    How many more times are you going to preface or end a useless bit of information about a BBC programme (in this case, who was on it) by saying “I did not listen” or “Glad I missed it”?

    Again the old question : what is the point??

    We might just conceivably be interested in hearing your views about something which may have been said, but why should we be interested to learn that you didn’t listen to a programme?

    ******************

    As I said before, button up a little. Just a little!

  83. @John

    Of course I want peace. But in a world containing powerful people who seem to get satisfaction from the spilling of blood, the only lasting peace will be that obtained from a position of strength. Even with that, they’ll come back at you a few years later to test your defences.

    I was swayed towards a multilateral position regarding nuclear weapons as this simple fact penetrated my naïve mind. Is Russia strong enough to back up its taking back of Crimea? Even though they broke International Law to do so, I think they had little choice after the US intervened… without Crimea they probably wouldn’t have been strong enough to resist. Why take the risk?

    The way to avoid bloodshed regarding East Ukraine would probably have been for Russia to set up a no fly zone, which they probably wouldn’t get UN support for. Very bad for the Donbass people though. Interesting times, and we should always wish for a world where there are secure borders appropriately policed, and no country interferes in the affair of any other country. I think there was a song about this, and I think that song was in Brian Haw’s last hurrah, as he was dying of cancer in Germany.

  84. Thanks, John and Habby. If Statute Law is the more recent wording for Common Law, that gives me a useful place to start… bringing in emergency legislation like this cannot be right.

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:22 pm

    Nevermind

    “Doug, please stop quoting its idiot objections to everything everyone says.”

    _____________________

    NebelMind, please listen to what your Leader Ba’al said! You’re f***ing up his Habbabreak invention. Pleeeeze!

    (Just substitute “Ingo” for “Doug”)

  86. We have never met her..but we know her Dinner Teachers…and She is Watching …Oh Come on and Choose a Song…

    Which one would you like???

    Forgotten Already..or a song that The Girl..She Herslelf Wrote

    Now What Exactly Is Her Name???

    Did She Go To The Brit School??

    Am I invited to meet her?

    At Ruskin House??

    Will I Be There???

    Or Will Be at a Friend’s BBQ

    “Adele – Someone Like You”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLQl3WQQoQ0

    Tony

  87. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:25 pm

    Peacewisher

    “If Statute Law is the more recent wording for Common Law,…etc, etc..”
    _____________________

    “The more recent wording”? You haven’t understood a thing, have you.

  88. Well…. this was considered a “best answer” on Yahoo Answer:

    “…

    Common law is a mechanism to bind people to a set of mores and traditions that reflect the common attitudes and preferences agreed by or acceptable to that society, statutory law is a mechanism to dictate to people how they will behave in that society whether or not it accords with their attitudes and preferences and whether or not it represents the common or majority view.

    Common law is a true expression of a democratic and fair government, Statute law is an expression of authoritarian and dictatorial government.”

    Anyone like to disagree with that final sentence?

  89. Peacewisher, every conflict ends up round a table. I agree with what you say about negotiating from a position of strength is what every negotiator wants. What I don’t agree with is that Russia broke international law in taking back Crimea – it was the will of the people by referendum. Stop watching MSM or reading comments by ESLO/Resident Dissident. :) There was also a lot longer period planned before the referendum than Cameron’s 2 day new law demanding that electronics companies retain our personal data to pass on to their governments and unaccountable secret services.

  90. @Habby: Law isn’t my thing. That’s why I’m asking all these dumb questions. And I can’t being wrong in the meantime, so please forgive my lack of understanding. Something just doesn’t seem right about the current legislation – even under statute law – but it’s clearly not right under common law.

    By all means correct me again…

  91. @John: Russia has broken International Law once, many countries have broken International Law numerous times since the break up of the Soviet Union, and shed lots of blood (notably absent during the change of ruling power in Crimea) so I’m not having a go… just stating a fact.

  92. OK, let’s forget common law, for our current purposes.

    For statutory law to be passed it starts as a Bill…

    “A Bill is a proposal for a new law, or a proposal to change an existing law that is presented for debate before Parliament. Bills are introduced in either the House of Commons or House of Lords for examination, discussion and amendment. When both Houses have agreed on the content of a Bill it is then presented to the reigning monarch for approval (known as Royal Assent). Once Royal Assent is given a Bill becomes an Act of Parliament and is law. ”

    I remember following the progress of RIP through its various stages in 2000, and al the controversy it caused along the way. But how does this “due process” of law-making fit with the current Cameron/Clegg shenanigans?

  93. Tucked away in Paragraph 43 of the notes on the emergency surveillance laws being rushed through parliament are the purposes for which communications data can be looked at.
    Along with interests of national security, and in preventing crime, there is this: “For the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department.”

  94. @KJH: Thank you for this.

    How can this proposed legislation already have “cross party support” when it contains a paragraph such as this? Perhaps because they haven’t all read it yet, let alone consulted with their constituents? Isn’t this abuse of democracy?

  95. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    11 Jul, 2014 - 11:59 pm

    Statute could be synonymous with shenanigans, Peacewisher. That’s the point of using Admiralty Law to regulate drivers through licensing and fees for registration of the vehicle.

    That’s why they use the word ‘vessel’ for automobile and roads then become ‘waterways’. Our precious legislators (lawyers) established this ingenious systems of controls.

  96. I do realise it might seem an almost impossible task..and I may well be useless at it..how could I know..I (just me – I am not part of any conspiracy) sure I have friends in the real world..You Know where you go out and meet people..and My Wife has Done That tonight…with our Son and Daughter) I know I write drunken bollocks…but I never fell out of love with her..and she didn’t with me….I have only spoken too her twice on the phone since we parted…for reasons that we had no control over…we never betrayed each other…and after all this time…she has confided in me…well a bit..we both have our own Families…Both Boy and Girl (Hers are a few Years Older Than Ours)

    So My Wife Saw Me Writing To My Ex..She Already Knew…I had spoken to her on the phone in 1999 and in May 2014….But Those Two Phone Converastions Were The Only Ones..since My Ex..phoned me Up in Manchester and My New Girlfriend answered The Phone…

    She Looks at Me Today….

    Well Of Course…

    She Could Hardly say Anything Else…

    So Do You Want To Go and See Her…

    There is a Train That Will Take You There…

    I Looked at My Wife….

    Its Not My Fault.

    What am I supposed to Do???

    So I asked My Lancashire Girlfriend…well I told her..she said you must be fuckin completely insane to talk to your ex….when….Your wife is so nice..She was really worried about me..cos she knows we other each other so…and then their is our Spanish Girlfriend…who (I really know this – just loves us both so much)

    Please Pray For Her To Get Better

    My Ex-Girlfriend (Nearly My Wife)

    I just Love Her So…

    I just want The Love To Flow….

    I mean wtf are we doing here?..if not to be nice to each other and take The Evil Bastards To Court..a Court of Law…Starting with on our side…Scottish Actually…

    ANTHONY CHARLES LYNTON BLAIR

    He Kids are Older Than Mine..and Both are Top Lawyers

    Don’t You Want To Take any Responsibilty

    To Take on This EVIL Yourself..

    And Confront It???

    You would be Surprised…

    Tony

  97. @Ben: the laws on use of roads seem fair, whether or not its origin is in Maritime Law. Obviously plenty of debate etc. with MPs and constituents to make sure they got it right… 1931, I think.

    It seems to me that in recent times laws are brought in without such public consultation. Use of the word “Emergency” is presumably used to get it through with minimum “fuss”. Wonder what the normal trigger point would be for Emergency legislation.

  98. Personally, I think it is an extremely good idea to tell the truth…and if you don’t and you for example..well say the well You Know Like innocent Sweethearts,,,and you know…and after a year together..you really do not expect this…so you ..well what is the alternative…of course you are still in love with her..cos she never betrayed you..and you never betrayed her,,==but now you are with another…for another year too..and she gave me all her love..just so sweet,,,I mean what do you do..I thought she was betraying me..but probably wasn’t…There is absolutely No Way You Can Hide The Scratches On Your Back…

    She Pretended Not To Notice..She Just Got Me Suited and Booted and Sent Me On My Way.

    Yorkshire Girls are Something Else..

    We Cried Together at her Council House in Buttershaw, She Liked Hawkwind Too…when John Lennon Died and Princess Diane Got Married…But 9 Months Later..I had Scratches Down My Back…

    I only did it once.

    She did have two kids that weren’t mine

    I am not perfect…The morning after I would turn up at work..and they kust looked at me..just hoping..and I was covered with love bites all over my neck…

    But its Tony..No Way…???

    Not in the same league guys.

    Tony

  99. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    12 Jul, 2014 - 12:51 am

    Question Time’s ‘passionate highlander’ is the William Wallace of the Better Together campaign”

    Two words: sheep dip

  100. I never thought of the 7/7 bombings as being anything but 4 Yorkshire Muslims who had gone off the rails killing ordinary civilians because of Tony Blair’s policies, the way the BBC and other MSM channels and news outlets presented it. Tony Gosling, who sometimes contributes here, has made me rethink.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/172048-london-bombings-police-state/

  101. طيزك حمرا.

    12 Jul, 2014 - 12:59 am

    @fedup, the thing to remember is, the government doesn’t give a rat’s ass what its subject population thinks, but it’s acutely sensitive to treaty bodies, charter bodies, special procedures, arbitral panels, and case law in independent courts. So by looking at those reviews (the original documents, not media accounts) you can often map changes in government doctrine or conduct point-by-point to coordinated pressure from those bodies. The impetus from the international community is intently suppressed.

    [closed captions for the passive-aggressive provided by Ben]

  102. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    12 Jul, 2014 - 1:19 am

    two more: organophosphate-related neuropsychological-impairment

  103. Where do we find secret decoder ring for how scared the State is about treaties and such?

  104. What Americans need to Realise..We in England Really We Do Not Need Your Help..well O.K. a bit,,Can You Please Start Being Polite and Nice..My Wife and Kids Just Come Home…It was a Life Reggae and Ska Night..I Didn’t fancy it cos I wanted to talk to my Ex_Girlfriend One of The Other Loves of My Life…Is That O.K.? I just love her so..and No I couldn;t be so impolite…I just want all your Love to Flow To Her..She ain’t so good at the moment..Her Doctor Told Her..She just had asthma. For the First tine since 1999 ( we used to make love to each other in 1979)…So O>K. Facebook was O.K…we found each other again…we have rather obscure/different names – my wife asked me what she looks like now,,,and to be honest..I was just completely amazed…But I have told my wife….Yes I will show you the Time Stamped Photograoh…Of Her Son and Daughter on Her Son’s 30th Birthday…

    Which Girl is My Ex?

    Her or Her Daughter?

    I did say that She Still Looks Exactly The Same since the last time I saw her in 1981 just before I met You…

    These Angels Are Something Else – So Pray For Susan…She Was My First When I Was 3 Years Old…Girls are Something Else..Not Like Boys, I notice The Difference. I think they are on my side…but I can see that finger…

    Oh Come On…

    I’m a Good Boy.

    And They Know I am.

    All The Girls Love My Wife and Me.

    I make sort of friends with my boy friends…but always think they want to make friends with my wife…sure I may be a bit paranoid…but she is an incredibly Nice Girl..My Wife,,

    Tony

  105. طيزك حمرا.

    12 Jul, 2014 - 2:00 am

    Take torture. In specific response to Human Rights Committee review (proceedings on video and embargoed Conclusions and Recommendations circulating in draft, last I looked), you can see the outward signs of a panicked struggle inside the US government to rejig its official superior-order defense so that it gets you off the hook and hooks somebody, anybody, else. Everybody knows they’ll need a scapegoat. JSOC’s choice for scapegoat is CIA. CIA’s choice is DoJ. DoJ’s choice is POTUS. They’ll need to pick individual virgins to throw into the volcano to atone for what’s now officially defined as a crime against humanity. It won’t get decided until after the Committee Against Torture piles on in the fall.

    If I believed you were interested and not just sneering and sniping, there’s more to be said, but on like Crypto-cat, not here. But you can just sit and wait for the leaks.

  106. Ref Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    11 Jul, 2014 – 11:14 pm
    Mary re Question Time
    How many more times are you going to preface or end a useless bit of information about a BBC programme (in this case, who was on it) by saying “I did not listen” or “Glad I missed it”?
    Again the old question : what is the point??
    We might just conceivably be interested in hearing your views about something which may have been said, but why should we be interested to learn that you didn’t listen to a programme?
    ******************
    As I said before, button up a little. Just a little!

    ~~~

    The link to QT was put up specifically for those interested, like many here, in the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the involvement of the BBC in the Better Together campaign and for general information.

    As I have said before, fuck off a lot. Just a lot! You ghastly creature, that is if you are a living being.

  107. What a very strange little piece from the psychopath.
    No context. No links. He was obviously rattled.

    ‘Latest News

    Statement from the Office of Tony Blair
    Wednesday, Jul 02, 2014 in Office of Tony Blair

    The story is nonsense and we have told them so. Tony Blair is not a formal advisor to Sisi he has simply said that it is vital for Egypt, the region and the world that the new President and his Government succeed in reforming their country and taking it to a better future and that the international community supports them in doing so. He has said this publically on a number of occasions and also stated he would be happy to help galvanise that support if he can.

    This is nothing to do with ‘business opportunities’ and we have absolutely no idea what correspondence the Guardian is referring to. Let me be very clear – neither Tony Blair, nor any of his organisations have any commercial interest in Egypt, nor are they seeking business in Egypt, nor have they ever discussed doing business in Egypt. This is simply incorrect.

    What is true and we have made categorically clear is that there is no commercial interest in, and absolutely no intention to make money from, Egypt.’
    http://www.tonyblairoffice.org/news/entry/statement-from-the-office-of-tony-blair/

    blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair, blair.
    That’s how many times, the name appeared in the link above. He obviously likes to see his name in print.

  108. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:38 am

    “By the way RD, whenever you get turned over in an argument, which is most of the time, you resort to attacking those who roll you on your back.”

    Oh you mean with comments like this:

    “Stop watching MSM or reading comments by ESLO/Resident Dissident.”

    “RD, As you know I do not agree with torture whether it is the Eastern Liberation forces or Pro Kiev forces or your friends in Guantanamo and US Supermax prisons,”

  109. John Goss

    You interested in 7/7? Google: Martin ‘Abdullah’ McDaid, a former member of the SBS turned Islam convert, who worked in the bookshop in Beeston with the other alleged perps. Reportedly, he ‘did most of the talking, most of the ranting and raving; and as an ex-Marine, he knew about matters military’.

    In an in interview with the Mirror he described himself:

    ‘I’m an ex-anti-terrorist operator. I spent one and a half years with the Special Forces – with the Special Boat Service.’

    UK special forces guy becomes radical convert to Islam? How plausible is that? Perhaps he was a member of the First Battalion, Queens Own Spooky Patsy-makers

  110. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:55 am

    “That’s how many times, the name appeared in the link above. He obviously likes to see his name in print.”

    But clearly not as many times as Mary does.

  111. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:58 am

    I am waiting for the first theory supporting the view that Brasil’s defeat to Germany was a false flag operation.

  112. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:12 am

  113. John Goss
    11 Jul, 2014 – 7:19 pm
    “We will kill hundreds of them for each of ours” Was that Poroshenko, Hitler or Netenyahoo?
    Whether they support them or not, Ukrainians know just what US / EU have brought back to life in Ukraine. Shame on them.

    Great to see you back aboard, all cylinders firing.

  114. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:18 am

    Peacewisher

    “Well…. this was considered a “best answer” on Yahoo Answer:

    “…

    Common law is a mechanism to bind people to a set of mores and traditions that statutory law is a mechanism to dictate to people how they will behave in that society whether or not it accords with their attitudes and preferences and whether or not it represents the common or majority view.

    Common law is a true expression of a democratic and fair government, Statute law is an expression of authoritarian and dictatorial government.”

    Anyone like to disagree with that final sentence?”

    ____________________

    The perils of stopping thinking at the reading of Wikipedia. In summary:

    1/. re the 1st para : the elements of common law go back many centuries (to medieval times). If, therefore, it “reflects the common attitudes and preferences agreed by or acceptable to that society”, then it reflects those of the centuries in which it arose, ie medieval times, in which it could hardly be said that democracy flourished. Representative democracy is relatively recent.

    2/. re your question to the 2nd para : in the light of what I’ve just said, it is not possible to agree with the claim in that para.

  115. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:32 am

    Peacewisher

    “I remember following the progress of RIP through its various stages in 2000, and al the controversy it caused along the way. But how does this “due process” of law-making fit with the current Cameron/Clegg shenanigans?”
    ____________________

    I agree that “rushing through” a bill us an undesirable phenomenon and should not happen except in the most time-critical circumstances*. It often results in defective legislation with unforeseen consequences or outcomes. My own opinion is that the current bill does not merit “rushing through”.

    However, “rushing through” does not mean that due process is not observed. It is, but all the stages of Parliamentary procedure are simply time-compressed.

    “Rushing through” is obviously facilitated when govt and opposition agree on the thrust and contents of the bill in question (you will have noticed that recourse is not being made to the guillotine procedure).
    ___________

    * an example I can think of off-hand was when an immigration bill was rushed through at the time of the expulsion of Asians from certain Eastern African countries.

  116. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:39 am

    Mary

    “The link to QT was put up specifically for those interested, like many here, in the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the involvement of the BBC in the Better Together campaign and for general information.”
    ________________

    “For general information”. Do you not think that this information is available in seconds for anyone interested?

    You will keep posting this sort of “general information” on here. I’m beginning to suspect that you just feel impelled to keep posting throughout the day and that anything will do.

    BTW, thanks for the “fuck off a lot” – much appreciated! 1

  117. Thanks, Habby.

    You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.

    I’d be with you about representative democracy if/when it is representative. How can Emergency Legislation be representative… almost by definition it is potentially “authoritarian and dictatorial”, which may be where/why the author of the Yahoo answer chooses to use such dramatic terminology..

    The Emergency Powers Act that allows the government of the day to become dictators apparently came into being in early 1964 (!) In response, the BBC made a programme called “The War Game” which was banned, but many of us have seen at private showings over the years. This provided a scenario of what would happen if the government exerted these powers. Was there wide consultation? If even a BBC film was banned, I suggest not. I am also going to be cheeky enough to say that this legislation appeared whilst the Profumo Scandal was still having its effects, which would also be a time when the public had become suspicious of the morality of people in government.

    I wonder if the BBC will make an update version of “The War Game”… can’t see it somehow.

  118. Thanks Craig.

    “In the last few weeks there has been a concerted effort to ratchet up the fear of the extremely remote possibility of a terrorist attack.”

    Compare the phoney fear-creation program in the UK with the real fear-creation being done across the globe by the UK’s pets.

    Was Inna Kukuruza a terrorist?

    Do the geniuses who do these things really think Russian society will see the re-emergence of fascism in Europe without being gripped by deep and visceral fear and revulsion? That’s the kind of fear that mobilises the kind of grim and remorseless resistence that defeated both Hitler and Napoleon.

    The best that the Gladio merchants can hope for is brief windows of opportunity to pass a few more repressive laws in a desperate attempt to protect them from their own populations and laws.

    “Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now?” Maybe because they know more and more people are finding them out and their fear level has reached their undergarments.

  119. nevermind, viva beautiful football

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:57 am

    Our school master is making out that he is in charge here, always ready to intersperse a large news dissemination and discussion blog with his cyber stalking ways.
    As a not so learned person he must have had problems at his last few establishment posts to be marched here to do pentence to his erstwhile paymasters.

    He’s probably on a fat pension now and is ending his dubious existence in the shadow of paedophile inquieries tackling abuse during his hay days in education and a largely ignored massaker on Palestinians, a cyclical requirement of zionists that like to manufacture outrage to improve their drooping popularity figures by creasting fear and loathing en masse. You are an apolopgist for zionist murder and mayhem socket, thats sad and not clever.

    Fuck off a lot is too nice, how about fuck off and die?

  120. Rushed through? No of course not!

    Troll: “My own opinion is that the current bill does not merit “rushing through”.” LOL

    ~~~~

    Emergency data law: does UK need rushed ‘anti-terror’ bill?

    The government plans to rush through emergency data law

    Critics say new emergency data law breaches human rights – so why is the government ‘railroading’ it through?

    LAST UPDATED AT 10:42 ON Thu 10 Jul 2014

    Emergency surveillance bill a ‘stitch-up’ says Tom Watson

    The government is set to announce plans to rush through emergency legislation that will force phone and internet companies to keep records of users’ online activities as well as customers’ calls and text messages.

    Critics say that the bill presents a threat to people’s civil liberties. Below is an overview of what the bill proposes and why it is being pushed through so swiftly.

    /..

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/59392/emergency-data-law-does-uk-need-rushed-anti-terror-bill

  121. @Habby regarding “rushing through”.

    I see where you are coming from but in this case due process is about consultation, and that necessarily takes time.

    I know you like to tease all of us but can also detect your own unease in this matter – on the one hand this is reassuring but on the other hand worrying, in that you (like many of us, I suppose) don’t see it necessary to be any more than just “uneasy”, as if that will make a difference to those in government. Would the 1964 Act have been used for purposes of control if the conservatives had won the 1964 election, for example? I’m much too young to know about those times but maybe someone can shed a little light…

  122. Please don’t feed the trolls.

  123. I wanted to know what he thought about it, Mary. Not as a troll, but as a person.

  124. Fed up at 9.23 pm on 11 July: My comment was not taken from any public open source. While it was inspired by a friend sending me a copy of his letter to his MP, I amended and added a lot to that text. I’m happy for others to use or draw on my letter to Tessa Jowell in emailing their MP.

    On Phil’s points (passim) about the system being broken and the need to join the revolution, I don’t disagree but like him I’m stuck with our current clapped-out vehicle. The revolution has not yet rolled off the production line, nor has Phil provided the design specifications or addresses where I can buy into his brave new world. Most people here seem to agree with Craig’s explanation why the proposed legislation is so objectionable; and are adding to his analysis or developing related themes. That all forms part of the zeitgeist, though I’m sure that neither I nor Mary would regard writing to MPs as anything more than a rather minor contribution to public debate on this and other issues.

    So, my stand is against the Russell Brand/ Phil principled apathists and on the side of the more activist* – admittedly with some fascist leanings – Plato: “One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” (Source: The Pessimist’s Handbook,2008 p 110. Please add visual illustration of Phil as John Cleese looking down on the hoi polloi who have the temerity to comment on Craig’s blogs).
    * Activists are all proto-fascists, but in healthy societies these tendencies are kept in check by there being no legal obstacles to anyone being an activist. That’s why it’s important to prevent or dismantle this latest Home Office obstacle to freedom from state-registered snoopers and clypes.

  125. “You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”

    How about modern laws apply to everyone while medieval laws only applied to the upper classes?

    The common man, the vast majority, were effectively slaves. Had no free will and no self determination. No freedom of movement. Could not even get married without the permission of the lord. They had no rights whatsoever.

  126. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 10:34 am

    “You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”

    The laws on slavery, sending children up chimneys and bear baiting come to mind.

  127. Liberalism is just a useless slogan.

  128. Ok… but those laws reflected the culture of the time, for those who did have a say. We don’t agree with child labour or cruelty to animals, but those were the norms of the day.

    The norms of the day in 2014 are based on (representative) democracy. The impending legislation is another step towards undermining such common norms through further distorting the “representative” bit.

  129. Do you have a better one, Arsalan?

  130. Slightly off-topic, but it is somewhat bizarre that the only mm outlet that properly covered yesterday’s demonstration in London was the Daily Mail:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689465/Hundreds-pro-Palestinian-demonstrators-bring-London-traffic-standstill-protest-outside-Israeli-embassy.html

    Perhaps their motives were not as we would wish?
    (i.e. get the water cannon ready, Boris!)

  131. The day that happens Peacewisher (finding out what he thinks) it will rain blue ink. Excuse me but I have reason to be prejudiced in this matter.

  132. OK, Mary. We all have our prejudices :)

  133. “Along with interests of national security, and in preventing crime, there is this: “For the purpose of assessing or collecting any tax, duty, levy or other imposition, contribution or charge payable to a government department””

    This provision is not new. It’s to be found in the
    Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000

  134. Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?… craig

    The herd of stampeding elephants in the room, Craig, and intelligence services flexing new muscles and field testing IT Virtual Power Control. Or are y’all here of the opinion that established and Establishment spooky default services are as cowed cuckolds and mindlessly status quo dependent rather than rapid and even rabidly active and extremely stealthy revolutionary independent special operation forces?

    And whoever would one ask to know, and for it to be, however plausibly, implausibly denied, for as is being increasingly recognised and discussed here, is the System rattled by something way beyond both its practical and virtually remote command and control.

    amanfromMars 1 Sat 12 Jul 06:56 [1407120656] commenting on http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2014/07/10/google_ventures_opens_new_fund_in_london/

    Condor Flight Path for Vulture Rich Pickings/Rich Vulture Sit-Ins/Venture Capitalisation

    It has long been known, Martin S, that practise makes perfect and perfect is great practice and for Glorious Command Head Quarters and Remote Vital Virtual and Virile Virtuous Control of Global Operating Devices, on and in Dark Web Enterprises with Black Watch AIdVenturers, is it IT Par for every course.

    Is any and every bet and event move, which can be in any way perceived as being against and in aggressive negative competition to, rather than in simple surreal support with and sublime encouragement of, SMARTR Virtual Machines and InterNet Working Infrastructures …. ITs XSSXXXXoSkeleton ……. a crushing hammer blow to failing dumb systems and corrupted perverse executive administrative persons of particular and peculiar interest and/or waned influence?

    And would such be a Front Facing AI in the Virtual Field and CyberSpace Place and Forward Operating Base of MIComplexIT only the Dire Rich and Retarded Foolhardy would Dare 42 Win Win against in order to Fail Fundamentally and Crash Catastrophically in CHAOS ….. Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems ……. Astute Active Alien Systems of Operation with Exotic and Erotic Universally Attractive and Addictive Projects for Man Management in a Reputable ReProgramming of Heavenly Assets and Earthly Bodies/Persons and Agencies?

    Take Care, IT’s a Mined Mind Field out there ……

    A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

    Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

    Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

    This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

    Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

    In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

    Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

    The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

    and is gravely to be regarded. ….. Dwight D. Eisenhower, 34th President of the United States

  135. We are now looking to Germany to make some kind of stand against this kind of US led fear-bombing of us.

    Imagine the UK out of the EU, and we would be left on this island with US drones; “Cameron, Clegg and Milliband.

  136. Dan Huil
    11 Jul, 2014 – 4:00 pm

    Agreed you hit pay dirt to Craig’s questions:

    Why is the fear ratchet being screwed right up just now? What is this leading up to?

    The Daily Wail harbinger is here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446636/Scotland-likely-suffer-catastrophic-terror-attack-achieves-independence.html

    Security at Faslane has been reinforced since my recent post:

    scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/faslane-vulnerable-to-terrorists-1-1098140

    Another 2007 Glasgow airport attack is too obvious. Scotland £24 billion oil and gas reserve pipelines are the perfect target…

  137. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 12:32 pm

    @Mary
    “The absence of liberalism aka the presence of fascism.”

    Not much liberalism here in Mary’s comments from the last three threads alone. Strangely enough those leaping to Mary’s defence when anyone expresses the slightest criticism tend to ignore the bile she dispenses so liberally.

    “As I have said before, fuck off a lot. Just a lot! You ghastly creature, that is if you are a living being.”
    “Please don’t feed the trolls.”
    “Too many books, many unreadable and not enough hours in the day or months in the year to read them anyway. Stick to what you are doing Craig. Much more worthwhile.”
    ““For Heaven’s sake button up just a little!” Take your own advice why don’t you.”
    “Did he have Edwina on his lap when they watched it together? What an unlikely pairing that was.”
    “Sicko Anon is on to his usual form”
    “How disgusting to say that anyone can ‘get off’ on the killing of innocents including little children. Beyond words. Suggest a mouthwash.”
    “More useless information. Telling us what we already know except they say ‘may have’ rather than ‘have’.”
    “The empty words from the mouth of the psychopath.”
    “He (i.e.the former Archbishop of Canterbury) should have been a rabbi.”

  138. Andrew Leslie

    12 Jul, 2014 - 12:44 pm

    MJ
    At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so. Why should anyone listen to your anti-SNP rants, which have no substance to support them?

  139. “MJ
    At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so. Why should anyone listen to your anti-SNP rants, which have no substance to support them?”

    I have been unable to locate either of those posts.

  140. All true R2D2. How long did that silly little exercise take you?

    Most have no context and one of them was written by your best mate, the troll aka Habbabkuk. Check before you make any more slurs.

    Get a life and contribute something worthwhile here for a change.

  141. “Great to see you back aboard, all cylinders firing.”

    I needed the break Sofia. Looking forward to the next. Great cartoon by the way. No need for words.

    KOWN, will take a look. Thanks for the lead.

  142. The Dimblebores have both been in Scotland. Senior on Question Time and Junior on Any Questions from Pollokshields.

    The AQ panel is Jim Murphy – Better Together and Labour Friend of Israel, Nicola Sturgeon, deputy first minister MSP, chair of the Westminster Defence Select Committee Rory Stewart Con MP and a journalist on The Scotsman and Sunday Post, Lesley Riddoch.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b048nsnh

    Any Answers is usually a more bearable programme to listen it. It follows the AQ repeat which is being broadcast on Radio 4 at the moment. A question on the public sector strike follows one on Gaza.

  143. A local authority in Surrey has been found out in placing cameras within a council owned property on suspicion of drug dealing and handling by the residents. Dummy cameras were placed outside and the real cameras were disguised in plastic cable shielding in the building.

    A local, aged 27 and described as a ‘mobile marketer’ ie a mobile phone salesman, interviewed about the spying said: …I don’t think we’re over monitored. I’m not worried because I’m not doing anything I shouldn’t be’.

    Oh dear! The poor lad’s brain has been fried by his mobiles.

    http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/guildford-borough-council-illegally-installed-7378049

  144. They making the final preparations for the totalitarian police state. The banking crash is imminent and they plan to steal everyone’s money to pay for it. They hope to brutally repress any rebellion. My guess is that too many are awake now and they’ll have real problems getting enough idiots to put their lives on the line to keep the scum in power.

  145. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 2:02 pm

    “Get a life and contribute something worthwhile here for a change.”

    You just don’t get it do you?

    BTW the quote you attribute to Habba was you quoting him. Please note the second set of inverted commas. The slurs are all your own liberal handiwork.

  146. “MJ
    At 7.24pm on 11/7 you posted that Alex. Salmond is an idiot. I asked you to elaborate, you have not done so”

    Don’t think that was me. A while back however on another thread I suggested Alex Salmond showed weakness when he did not stand up to Donald Trump and that this did not augur well for future dealings with more powerful operators such as NATO and the oil companies. I said that at the time however so no further elaboration is required I would have thought.

  147. At 7.24pm on 11/7 I responded to a suggestion that the yes campaign was winning by drawing attention to the opinion polls. Is that really an anti-SNP rant? No-one asked me to elaborate. The polls speak for themselves.

  148. So now London is threatening Scotland with devastating cyber attacks if it votes Yes in the referendum, as only it, the USA, India, China, and Russia have the capability to do so, and it would have the most likely motive for doing so then.

    Think a more devastating attack is more likely before the vote to make sure nothing is necessary after it.

  149. Andrew Leslie

    12 Jul, 2014 - 2:57 pm

    Sorry, my error, it was 2nd July at 7.31 on the Public Servce topic. But it WAS YOU.
    I asked you to elaborate on your assertion that Alex Salmond was an idiot. Surely you remember making that remark.
    An answer now would be welcome.

  150. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:11 pm

    Peacewisher

    “Thanks, Habby.

    You are suggesting that modern laws are superior to medieval ones… I’m wondering what grounds you are basing that on.”
    __________________

    No, I’m saying that statute law is more modern and a response to the contemporary situation as opposed to life 700 years ago. Nothing to do with being “superior”.

    ************

    I have the sneaking suspicion that you’re not seeking to learn but merely trying to wind me up. Or just slow on the uptake? Whichever it is, if you decide to put any more “questions” I’ll leave it to someone else – perhaps an Eminence – to answer. :)

  151. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:23 pm

    “I have the sneaking suspicion that you’re not seeking to learn but merely trying to wind me up”

    Projection, is a much misunderstood concept. :)

  152. ------------·´`·.¸¸.¸¸.··.¸¸Node

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:23 pm

    Anybody else get a request from 38 degrees to fill out a survey?

    “Please can you fill out this quick survey about the internet and democracy? I’ll need your thoughts by Monday. It should only take a few minutes. I want to be sure I’m speaking for as many of us as possible, not just giving my own opinions. Just click here to get started.
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/digital-democracy-poll

    I thought the survey was designed to deliver the opinions they wanted to hear, and said so in the ‘Any other issues?’ field:

    “This survey is designed to encourage criticism of ‘digital democracy’. The questions are leading, and the field in which to record a ‘good’ communication experience with my MP is more restrictive than for a ‘bad’. The fact that my experience of communicating with my MP has been bad doesn’t blind me to the built-in bias of your survey. This survey is not designed to canvas members’ opinions – it is designed to return the opinions you want.”

     

  153. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:27 pm

    Mary to Peacewisher

    “Please don’t feed the trolls.”

    Very similar to “Ba’al Zevuls”‘s plea to NeverHadAMind “pleeeze don’t respond to it”.

    Not your blog, Mary, not your blog and not your business to tell other commenters what to do.

  154. Found it. I’d forgotten about it and did not return to the thread after making my brief comment. Here it is:

    “Unfortunately, Scotland is not short of useful idiots”

    Said Vronsky, to which I replied:

    “One of them is Alex Salmond, which is very unfortunate indeed”.

    In my view Salmond has failed to face up to the currency issue, so the bankers are happy. He’s committed Scotland to the EU and as a result the Scots won’t be able to reclaim their valuable fishing grounds. He’s failed to contemplate the nationalisation of the oil-fields, so the oil campanies are happy. He’s committed to retaining the monarchy and NATO membership. He calls it independence but what’s actually on offer isn’t independence at all. All the major vested interests are happy so “useful idiot” doesn’t seem inappropriate to me.

    Hope that helps, apologies for not responding earlier.

  155. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:36 pm

    Ben

    “Projection, is a much misunderstood concept.”
    _______________

    California Ben, that must be about the zillioneth time you’ve inserted a superfluous comma between the subject and verb of your “sentences”.

    Is it ignorance, is it instinctive like a dog cocking his leg at a lamp-post or have you hit on a new way of projecting one of your gnomic utterances?

    And now go and have another smoke, you know it’ll inspire you.

  156. List of the 124 Palestinians, Including Whole Families, Killed Since Tuesday

    Saturday July 12, 2014 11:16 Saed Bannoura – IMEMC News Report post

    The following is a list of the 124 Palestinians killed by Israeli air bombardment since Tuesday, July 8th. These are the names that have been confirmed by medical sources in Gaza. An estimated 900 Palestinians have also been wounded, with some losing limbs and others disabled for life. The majority of the wounded are children, according to the Ministry of Health. All of the casualties listed below are victims of Israeli bombs dropped on Gaza since Tuesday July 8th.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/68429

  157. R2D2

    Your ‘post’ at 12.32 pm merited about 3 secs of my reading time and that was 3 too many.

    You know ‘you’re not worth it’ as the ad doesn’t say!

    Any actual contributions to this blog forthcoming from you?

  158. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:49 pm

    Yes Hab,…..======================

    *******you know it’ll inspire you_______________

    ————I noe what you mean++++

    It’s very irritating.

  159. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:50 pm

    Gaza today

    I wonder if anyone would agree with me that there is a strong case to be made for indicting the Hamas leadership for war crimes and violations of international humanitarian law? War crimes against against the Palestinian people in Gaza, I mean.

    The case against the LHamas leadership is that they launch indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israel from heavily civilian-populated areas in Gaza in full knowledge of, and reckless disregard for, the reprisals which they know Israel will undertake, thereby causing many deaths, including of women and children, and much human suffering among their fellow Gazans.

    Their day will surely come!

  160. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    12 Jul, 2014 - 3:58 pm

    Hamas will have to wait in line for any war crimes to reach the surface. The ICC moves apace glacially. This hasn’t even broken the surface yet.

    “The flour mill attack was not the most serious incident of the war: although nearly 1,400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed in just three weeks, no one died at the mill. However, because it was a civilian building producing food – the only operational mill in Gaza – the incident received particular criticism from Goldstone, who concluded that the building was hit by an air strike, the attacks were “intentional and precise”, and they were “carried out for the purpose of denying sustenance to the civilian population”. He added that the attacks violated the fourth Geneva convention and customary international law and may constitute a war crime.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/01/gaza-war-report-accuses-israel

  161. “What is this leading up to”

    We are being softened up for another war, obviously. As you know war is good for business and those against that are left leaning softies. Is is sad that there are so few commentators like yourself to point out the flaws in the war logic, while there are so many like Blair, Campbell and Co. who would urge us into more senseless slaughter.

    The non-existent liquid bomb threat is all part of the agenda to keep us terrified and mutually suspicious, mutual suspicion will stop us from organising. Monitoring our communications will keep the government one step ahead of the game.

    Surely it was from that sense of suspicion that led Orwell before his death to produce the list denouncing various of his contemporaries to the secret service, an act that for me forever blights his reputation.

  162. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 4:13 pm

    Habba

    The war crime Hamas undertake is in launching their rocket attacks against Israel not to mention their endorsement of suicide bombers in the past or their various human rights abuses against those Palestinian citizens who do not share their philosophy. The response by Israel goes way beyond self protection and also constitutes a war crime by any normal sense of that definition.

    I suspect that Hamas is trying to whip up things at present so as to strengthen its position within Palestine, especially given that it no longer gets much support from the Muslim Brotherhood with Egypt. Netanyahu is engaged in something similar largely because he wants to demonstrate his “strong man” credentials to those trying to outflank him on the right. The sooner this symbiotic relationship between the extremists on either side is broken the better for everyone – of course some here cannot wait for the next Intifada as they somehow believe that this sick game is the means by which they believe progress will be made, with ordinary Palestinians and Israelis just acting as dispensible pawns in their rather sick game.

  163. Mary

    For Truth and Justice

    I estimate that you must have contributed around one million comments to this blog by now, a large proportion concerned with Israel and various ideas about the Jews.

    I was wondering, could you perhaps provide us with one single comment you have made condemning Muslim violence?

    You’ll agree that Muslim violence is vastly more prevalent than Jewish violence, so it stands to reason that a self-professed human rights campaigner and believer in truth and justice will be able to produces scores of examples in response to my above question.

    Over to you.

  164. Did the USS Jimmy Carter soften up the area for an eruption and earthquake in Iceland by the USS Connecticut by hitting Japan again off Fukushima just to make sure that Tokyo stays in line too?

  165. “Did the USS Jimmy Carter soften up the area for an eruption and earthquake in Iceland by the USS Connecticut by hitting Japan again off Fukushima just to make sure that Tokyo stays in line too?”

    No.

  166. Has anybody said that Gaza was being missiled/bombed/shelled for some weeks with the pretext that Hamas was deemed guilty for the kidnapping and murder of the three illegal immigrants?

    Death might have been chosen for some of those injured. The blast injuries will be terrible as will the amputations whether by Israeli shell and shrapnel or on the operating table from necessity.

    What did the Rabbi equate one Jewish fingernail to? I think he said one thousand Arabs. No. I got it wrong. It was one million.
    http://devrolijkemoslim.blogspot.co.uk/2006/05/one-million-arabs-are-not-worth-jewish.html

  167. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    12 Jul, 2014 - 4:27 pm

    “What did the Rabbi equate one Jewish fingernail to? I think he said one thousand Arabs. No. I got it wrong. It was one million.”

    You don’t seem to understand how special the chosen people are, Mary.

  168. So it was just intended to keep the Japanese Defense Minister on track when he had his press conference with SoD Chuck Hagel minutes later.

  169. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 4:37 pm

    “What did the Rabbi equate one Jewish fingernail to? I think he said one thousand Arabs. No. I got it wrong. It was one million.”

    Hate feeds hate – nothing new I’m afraid but some still want to play their which came first, the chicken or the egg games.

  170. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 4:43 pm

    Resident Dissident

    Thanks for that.

    “The war crime Hamas undertake is in launching their rocket attacks against Israel not to mention their endorsement of suicide bombers in the past or their various human rights abuses against those Palestinian citizens who do not share their philosophy.”
    _____________________

    Actually I would only classify the first two of the above as war crimes – but war crimes NOT against Israel or Israelis but against Palestinians in Gaza. The Hamas leadership should be indicted for war crimes and violations of international humanitarian law against PALESTINIAN GAZANS, for the reasons I set out in my post at 15h50.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “The response by Israel goes way beyond self protection…”

    Yes, I agree, but it is meant to go beyond. It is meant to be dissuasive. The fact that despite previous experience the Hamas leadership is not dissuaded says more about the Hamas leadership than about the Israelis.

    ****************************

    Anyway, keep up the good work – the Eminences have either fallen silent or are in full flight.

  171. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 4:45 pm

    “So it was just intended to keep the Japanese Defense Minister on track when he had his press conference with SoD Chuck Hagel minutes later”
    ____________

    Again – no.

    Third time lucky?

  172. And this one is a nice example of the type too. Hate in their ‘hearts’.

    ‘This is what “Israel’s” right to exist means.

    “Cut off power to Gaza dialysis patients, Moshe Feiglin, Knesset deputy speaker urges

    “The blood of a dialysis patient in Gaza is not redder than the blood of our IDF [Israeli army] soldiers who will, God forbid, need to enter [Gaza],” said Moshe Feiglin, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, on Wednesday.”‘

    ~~~

    Tim Llewellyn who got out of the BBC, unable to take any more of their stuff, said on Facebook. Sent by a friend -

    Have taken the liberty of copying the contextual comment from Tim Llewellyn:

    ‘Tim Llewellyn I have a cherished picture, taken in 1998, of myself and a BBC camera crew standing alongside the crippled Sheikh Yassin, the founder and then leader of Hamas. He was a visionary Palestinian, even in his terribly depleted state. What he, and his outfit Hamas, wanted and want, quite simply, is their land, the land that Britain handed over to the Zionists between 1918 and 1948. Hamas won’t succeed probably, but it’s not a bad aspiration. Gaza, a fact the BBC hasn’t mentioned for about 20 years, is 90 per cent populated by the Arabs the British and Jews threw out in 1948.

    I was lucky, and so was the BBC camera crew, that we didn’t have to wheel Sheikh Yassin’s chair too far. This old and sick man who could hardly speak or move was bl…. into smithereens by a rocket from an Israeli Apache helicopter, sitting in his wheelchair. Those nice bodyguards would have been made dust alongside him. That’s the reality of Israel. Anyone they don’t like they kill, and John Kerry and William Hague turn over restlessly but manage to get back to sleep.’

  173. So when the USS Connecticut triggers the eruption and subsequent earthquake at Hekla, the ensuing cloud and waves coming Scotland’s way will just be seen as unexpected collateral damage!

  174. This is the entity’s very own Mr Nasty to whom that quote is attributed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

  175. doug scorgie

    12 Jul, 2014 - 5:37 pm

    Resident Dissident
    11 Jul, 2014 – 10:39 pm

    “Did anyone notice how many Russians with past or current connections to the Putin regime were involved in the recent Tory fundraising shindig?”

    Yes we did, and…?

  176. خاله ووسو

    12 Jul, 2014 - 5:40 pm

    Good plan for all those wishing help with assisted suicide.
    Return flights offered to Islamic Caliphate in Iraq. Return flight will be taken by exchange person from Iraq looking to stay alive to see another day in the UK.

  177. doug scorgie

    12 Jul, 2014 - 5:52 pm

    Resident Dissident
    12 Jul, 2014 – 9:12 am

    “For those who still harbour any illusions about Mr Galloway”

    What illusions RD?

    Explain yourself.

  178. خاله ووسو

    12 Jul, 2014 - 5:53 pm

    Good plan for YES campaigners in Scottish Independence Vote.
    If result is NO, get Kurdistan President Barzani’s son, head of Kurdish Intelligence, USUKIS Intelligence, and leaders of three exiled Islamic groups to capture Carlisle, to get ISIS to seize Scottish oilwells and sell the oil to Israel. Then advance to Birmingham.
    If the Scots had got any brains they’d have done that long ago.

  179. خاله ووسو

    12 Jul, 2014 - 5:57 pm

  180. خاله ووسو

    12 Jul, 2014 - 6:23 pm

    Good plan for Renditioners, Paedophiles, International Expense Fiddlers and International Terrorists.

    Don’t do it, then you won’t have to be ridiculed round the world for losing all the evidence.

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/3/7/1299540453752/08.03.2011-Steve-Bell-on–008.jpg

  181. The western colonialists, in past, have a long history of creating religious fanatics among the followers of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism to serve their imperial designs. Since 9/11 and 7/7, Al-Qaeda is the most famous group to serve western imperialism.

    “The truth is there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al-Qaeda. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But, there is propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive TV watchers to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US….” Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook.

    The latest “Islamic” bogey man, ISIS, according to many independent sources is nothing but an “American Apple Pie”.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/07/09/hizbullah-isis-terrorists-are-an-american-pie/

  182. According to the FBI 2006 database, 7% terrorist activities against American were carried out by Jews, while Muslims were involved in 6% terrorist activities.

    Mike to you Anon.

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

  183. Israelis eating popcorn while watching Palestinians burnt alive.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/israelis-pictured-eating-popcorn-clapping-3846801

  184. Interesting interview with Jewish jazz musician, Gilad Atzmon, who reflects as Israel goes about its latest slaughtering of the innocents gig:

    “GA: I am delighted to see that more and more people including my bitterest opponents now agree with me that there is something deeply troubling in Jewish culture and ID politics. Haaretz wrote an editorial a few days ago stating that “Israel must undergo a cultural revolution.” My bitterest Palestinian opponent, Ali Abunimah, who just recently denounced me for focusing on Jewish culture, seems to have adopted my philosophy. He now points to the morbid racism inherent in Jewish culture and politics.

    And now, after praising myself and my ‘prophetic qualities,’ let me address the question. In Hebrew, the word ‘Shalom’ doesn’t mean peace, harmony or reconciliation. It means ‘security for the Jews.’ In other words, Israel does not have a proper word for peace or reconciliation. Hence it is not surprising that Israel is not a partner in peace. It can’t even contemplate the concept.”

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/07/on-israeli-defeat-and-the-future-of-jewish-politics/

  185. Resident Dissident

    12 Jul, 2014 - 7:12 pm

    @herbie

    “Haaretz wrote an editorial a few days ago stating that “Israel must undergo a cultural revolution.” ”

    Too true – but then so do the Palestinians – especially if they subscribe to your last paragraph and have such a low view of Jews/Israelis that they believe that they cannot contemplate peace.

    Mr Scorgie

    The idea was to make you think not to do the thinking for you.

  186. “And now, after praising myself and my ‘prophetic qualities,’ let me address the question. In Hebrew, the word ‘Shalom’ doesn’t mean peace, harmony or reconciliation. It means ‘security for the Jews.’ ”

    I’ve looked up the various etymologies for the word and I don’t seem to be able to find one which agrees with your definition.

  187. doug scorgie

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:14 pm

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
    12 Jul, 2014 – 9:32 am

    “I agree that “rushing through” a bill is an UNDESIRABLE phenomenon and should not happen except in the most time-critical circumstances*.

    * an example I can think of off-hand was when an immigration bill was rushed through at the time of the expulsion of Asians from certain Eastern African countries.”

    So you agree, Habbabkuk, that the Commonwealth Immigrations Act 1968 was an example of a DESIRABLE phenomenon and rushing it through was a necessity of utmost importance.

    The Commonwealth Immigrants Act 1962 had stated that citizens of the UK and Colonies holding passports issued by the UK Government had the right of entry to the UK.

    The Commonwealth Immigration Act 1968 was rushed through parliament in three days. The new legislation subjected all holders of UK passports to immigration controls unless they, their parents or a grandparent had been born, adopted or naturalised in the United Kingdom.

    The legislation was a response to thousands of Kenyan Asians arriving in the UK to flee political turmoil.

    This Act took away the right of residence.

    While the people coming from Kenya had British passports, many were not patrials.

    The 1968 Act effectively revoked British citizenship and made thousands of people stateless.

    The patrial clause in the legislation meant that people from the ‘Old Commonwealth’ countries of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa would be less likely to be affected by the change, prompting critics of the legislation to say that it was racially biased in that it would only apply to non-white Commonwealth immigrants.

  188. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:31 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    “Resident Dissident
    11 Jul, 2014 – 10:39 pm

    “Did anyone notice how many Russians with past or current connections to the Putin regime were involved in the recent Tory fundraising shindig?”

    Yes we did, and…?”
    ___________________

    Let me help you once more, Doug.

    Eminences on this blog regularly castigate big donors to the Tories.

    Except when those big donors are connected with the rasPutin regime.

    Then they don’t.

    Capeesh now, Doug?

  189. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !

    12 Jul, 2014 - 8:39 pm

    Mr Scorgie

    Faux-näif time followed rapidly by straw man time, eh, Doug?

    I’m acquainted with the 1962 and 1968 Acts but thanks for reminding me.

    “So you agree, Habbabkuk, that the Commonwealth Immigrations Act 1968 was an example of a DESIRABLE phenomenon and rushing it through was a necessity of utmost importance.”

    I’m agreeing with what I wrote in my first post, Doug. The 1968 Act was seen as time-critical and this is the reason why it was rushed through.

    What is it you don’t understand? Just put your question(sà and, as always, I’ll try and help you.

    ************************

    La vita è bella, life is good!

  190. Iain

    You can see no alternative to our parliamnetary democracy that is not facism? Hilarious. You think the system we have is as good as it gets? Just one more tweak is all that is needed. Even more hilarious.

    For all your half baked pop, literary and philosophy sneering you are still stuck with writing letters you know will be ignored.

  191. Press Release from PCHR.

    Chapter and verse.

    On the 5th Day of the Offensive on the Gaza Strip, Israeli Warplanes Attack Civilian Facilities, Including Charities, Parks, Disabilities Rehabilitation Centers, Sport Clubs and Mosque, and Increasingly Target Houses
    http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10474:a&catid=36:pchrpressreleases&Itemid=194

    Saturday, 12 July 2014 00:00
    Ref: 81/2014

    114 Palestinians Killed, of Whom 94 Are Civilians, Including 26 Children and 18 Women, and 799 Others Wounded, Mostly Civilians, Including 249 Children and 165 Women;

    149 Houses Targeted and Destroyed

    ~~~

    Gaza is being flattened, again, and its people subjected to horror.

  192. technicolour

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:11 pm

    There was no sneering that I could see in Iain’s posts. What actually is your alternative, Phil? I have several, by the way, but would be most interested to hear yours.

  193. technicolour

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:19 pm

    Re: Gaza. I’m not able to do much apart from write, write to an MP, and either sing to the choir on Facebook, or inform the one person I know who seems to be rather confused about the merits of bombing a civilian population. Otherwise supporting those people inside Israel who find this as execrable as most of the UK found Iraq seems to be the only positive way to go, This is a very moving testimony:
    http://www.comhlamh.org/profile/anne-deigan-quaker-peace-social-witness-palestine/

  194. Thanks for that link Herbie to the interview with Gilad Atzmon.
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/07/on-israeli-defeat-and-the-future-of-jewish-politics/

    He is a refreshingly honest thinker and has humanity and warmth.

  195. Ex Rami Almeghari reports from Gaza

    ‘RA: As the Gaza Strip enters its eighth year of an Israeli-imposed siege and blockade that has prevented the import of basic medical supplies and medicines, Palestinian medics in Gaza are calling for immediate assistance. So far, two ambulance crew members have been injured, as ambulances have come under Israeli army fire. Dr. Ashraf al-Qidra is the spokesperson for Gaza’s health ministry.

    Dr. Ashraf al-Qidra: The type of injuries no doubt indicate that Israel has used new weapons that melt bodies. There are many holes in the bodies of dead and injured as well as dismemberment of the lower parts of the bodies, and the limbs.’

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/number-keeps-rising-dr-mona-el-farra-gaza-assault

    ~~~~~~

    Nothing would surprise me. Gaza has been used as a testing ground for new weaponry before.

  196. Cast Lead revisited. They really are a sick collection.

    This is today, not 2008/9.

    Arsalan’s link above.

    Israelis pictured eating POPCORN and clapping as they watch deadly bombardment of Gaza
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/israelis-pictured-eating-popcorn-clapping-3846801

  197. technicolour

    12 Jul, 2014 - 9:55 pm

    No, Mary, this is not representative of the Israeli people, any more than the footage spread of ‘Palestinians’ cheering at 9/11 was representative of the people in Gaza.

  198. Do you never worry about reflexively enhancing hatred, without any added psychological understanding, as a ‘peace activist’?

  199. Ben-LA PACQUTE LO ES TODO

    12 Jul, 2014 - 10:08 pm

    Enhancing hatred with words beats the alternative.

    http://rt.com/news/172316-israel-knock-roof-video/

    “The IDF practice of firing a missile at a civilian home to warn the occupants to leave the building before a larger attack, has been caught on film. Amnesty International has decried “roof knocking,” saying it in no way constitutes an “effective warning.”

  200. Tec
    It is a representation of Zionism though. The belief that their race gives them a right to someone elses land.
    That they are some how superior.
    Zionism is the same idiology as Nazism.
    Nazism is actually a copy of Zionism, Alfred Rosenberg the founder of Nazism doesn’t make a secret of the fact he has copied Zionism when he founded Nazism.
    So what we see Zionist do in Israel is as accurate a dipiction of Zionists as concentration camps are of Nazis.
    Gaza is just one big concentration camp, and every now and then the Zionists cover it with fire as a means of reducing its population.
    Starvation is another means, we just not as humane.

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