Having complained of people posting off topic, it seems a reasonable solution to give an opportunity for people to discuss the topics I am banning from other threads – of which 9/11 seems the most popular.
I do not believe that the US government, or any of its agencies, were responsible for 9/11. It would just need too many people to be involved. Someone would have objected. There are some strange and dangerous people in America, but not in sufficient concentration for this one. They couldn’t even keep Watergate quiet, and that was a small group. Any group I can think of – even Blackwater – would contain operatives with scruples about blowing up New York. They may be sadly ready to kill people in poor countries, but Americans en masse? Somebody would say it wasn’t a good idea.
I asked a friend in the construction industry what it would take to demolish the twin towers. He replied nine months, 80 men, and 12 miles of cabling. The notion that a small team at night could plant sufficient explosives embedded at key points, is laughable.
The forces of the aircraft impacts must have been amazingly high. I have no difficulty imagining they would bring down the building. As for WTC 7, again the kinetic energy of the collapse of the twin towers must be immense.
I admit to a private speculation about WTC7. Unfortunately in construction it is extremely common for contractors not to fix or install properly all the expensive girders, ties and rebar that are supposed to be enclosed in the concrete. Supervising contractors and municipal inspectors can be corrupt. I recall vividly that in London some years ago a tragedy occurred when a simple gas oven explosion brought down the whole side of a tower block.
The inquiry found that the building contractor had simply omitted the ties that bound the girders at the corners, all encased in concrete. If a gas oven had not blown up, nobody would have found out. Buildings I strongly suspect are very often not as strong as they are supposed to be, with contractors skimping on apparently redundant protection. The sort of sordid thing you might not want too deeply investigated in the event of a national tragedy.
Precisely what happened at the Pentagon I am less sure. There is not the conclusive film and photographic evidence that there is for New York. I am particularly puzzled by the much more skilled feat of flying that would be required to hit a building virtually at ground level, in an urban area, after a lamppost clipping route – very hard to see how a non-professional pilot did that. But I can think of a number of possible scenarios where the official explanation is not quite the whole truth on the Pentagon, but which do not necessitate a belief that the US government or Dick Cheney was behind the attack.
In my view the real scandal of 9/11 was that it was blowback – the product of a malignant terrorist agency whose origins lay in CIA funding and provision. Also blowback in a more general sense that it was spawned in the nasty theocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia which is so close to the US and to the Bush dynasty in particular. As with almost all terrorist activity, I do not rule out any point on the whole spectrum of surveillance, penetration and agent provocateur activity by any number of possible actors.
But was 9/11 false flag and controlled demolition? No, I think not.
(Now I have given full opportunity to discuss 9/11 here, any further references on other threads will be instantly deleted).
Clark,
I gave up trying to be “right” all the time. Prefer to try to be happy or at least aim for grateful.
When I’m down it helps when I make a list things of I’m grateful for.
Sorry if you know all this and don’t mean to patronise just find it helps me mate.
I’m grateful for being able to discuss with you and in the process get to know you a bit.
Exexpat, sorry, I see no significance in these numerical coincidences, especially as the integers concerned are so small.
Are you aware that numbers beginning with “1” crop up more frequently than others? This is so well recognised and understood that it is used by tax authorities etc. to detect fraudulent tax returns.
Exexpat, yes, the time taken for an old-fashioned telephone dial to return…
Exexpat, we need to be right in order to save our own biosphere from the damage we’re doing it. We need to be right to prevent all kinds of disaster.
Being right means being in accord with reality. Being at odds with reality leads to failure.
Of course reality is complex, so in matters that are not well understood it is not possible to know whether a proposition is right. However, we can check our reasoning and admit when we are wrong. But usually we don’t; by and large we’d rather fight to impose upon others that which we already believe than admit that we might be wrong.
I’d rather be happy than right, too, but I realise that reality is much bigger and more powerful than I am, and that therefore it matters more to detect and reject error than to be happy.
My happiness can lead to others’ unhappiness; those others are my equals and they outnumber me, so my happiness is not the most important thing.
In Buddhism, the continual endeavour to be right is called “right seeing” and is a prerequisite for “right doing”, which is acting morally and ethically.
Clark,
Trying to help you personally.
9/11 is not personal, for me anyway.
For that I’m trying to be right and Definitely NOT happy with it.
“That” being the preposterous official account of 9/11 and the mass killings after the (media) event.
Clark
2 Feb, 2016 – 12:10 pm
Exexpat, yes, the time taken for an old-fashioned telephone dial to return…
That would be a great reason.. if it were true!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push-button_telephone
“Exexpat, sorry, I see no significance in these numerical coincidences, especially as the integers concerned are so small.”
Clark, Rather than dismiss it – There is a massive amount of research around the numbers and the significance of their use by intelligence agencies both for 9/11 and other PSYOPs.
Intelligence agencies – Your number is up.
“We’re probably doomed as a species. We’re technologically capable of solving the environmental problems we’ve created but we’re not going to do so because of our psychology.
On the whole, we’re more motivated to be believed than we are to be honest, and we’re more motivated to win our arguments than to be right.
That places us at odds with natural law, and so natural law will obliterate us, just as it obliterates young fools who drive recklessly or believe they can handle any degree of intoxication.”
The people destroying your world aren’t Christians, Satanists or pagans. They have no connection to any gods of the Earth or Sky, good or bad. They are just shallow psychopaths, organisms whose innate functions have badly misfired. This is why Nature will be forced to wipe them out.
Miles Mathis.
What do you think?
Exexpat, nature isn’t forced. What happens, happens. It happens naturally.
Human behaviour can affect the course of events. We can arrange for certain things to occur through our understanding of physical law; this is called technology.
Human behaviour is causing our planet to retain more heat, which is causing the climate to change. This is an unintended consequence of certain human activities.
Humans could in principle counteract the additional retention of heat; for instance, a solar shield could be deployed at the L1 Lagrange point between the Sun and Earth, though this would likely have further unintended consequences in accordance with physical law.
But human nature makes it likely that we will continue to fight over diminishing resources rather than do anything about climate change.
So likely, we will cause our own extinction. But nature won’t have been “forced” into it; it will all just happen naturally.
As for psychopathy, I meet plenty of people with such tendencies in the general population. Abuse is widespread. Indeed, it’s frequently used as entertainment – just watch your telly. Seen Eastenders? Everyone on the edge of argument, dirty deals behind each other’s backs. Later in the evening you can watch any number of shootings, stabbings, etc… We all do it. We enjoy dominating and defeating each other. That’s partly what we’re doing here on this thread.
Politicians might be slightly worse on average since the system selects for those who beat others, but they have no monopoly. Seeing it otherwise is just a matter of blaming someone, which is another widespread destructive human trait – avoidance of responsibility.
Clark, you’ve got a tin ear mate, and you have no idea of how patronising and dismissive you sound to others. I rather regretted posting yesterday at the end of my shift (after a particularly bad day, admittedly), and wondered about asking a mod to delete it. But you doubled down on the arrogance, and absolutely ignored what was being said.
It’s always an error in the (person other than Clark)’s thinking. They have an issue, their thinking “lacks rigour” (how’s that for some industrial strength condescension?), they are dishonest, crassly insensitive, acting in bad faith or at the very least, they’re psychologically impaired.
I wish you’d consider how you come across once in a while, because I truly believe you are an exceptionally decent human being, in addition to trying to be as honest as possible.
Dear Reader
Exhibits 3,4, and 5 for your delectation.
This series of 3 videos shows an analysis of the 911 amateur tapes for the forgeries that they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbYAV5fCGiM&list=PLA409DEB6561EDC95
Exexpat and others, this just confirms that no planes hit the twin towers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQBlv7sZGVE
Glenn, seriously? Someone tells me that “Nosed Out” and “Synched Out” and some numerology proves that 9/11 was a hoax, and I’m “arrogant” to say that their thinking lacks rigour?
Glenn, you believe there were no planes? What, all the ignored warnings were planted for cover?
I’m honestly mystified.
John Goss, holograms don’t make huge holes in buildings and set them on fire.
I’m in la-la land. This is mad! I’m completely mystified.
John Goss, the first words of that video are that this is something the military would like to develop by 2025. Not even in development, just on a wish-list.
Has anyone ever seen a hologram in mid air, ie. neither beyond a screen nor between a display and the viewer? I’ve never heard of such a thing so I’ve no reason to believe it exists.
John, if 9/11 really was faked, aren’t the chances high that the Kremlin would have exposed it? And don’t tell me that “Putin’s going to”; why hasn’t he? Didn’t he want to stop the US attacks upon Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria? What’s he waiting for, WWIII?
Sorry Glenn, am I being arrogant again?
The Moon’s made of green cheese, you know.
Oh and Glenn, haven’t you got some owning up to do? To me, that is.
Exexpat, sorry, I think there are
somemany loose ends to tie up before we look at “9/11 Amateur”.Myself, 10:20 pm:
I’ve strong reason to believe that it’s impossible. Light is well known to travel in straight lines. How can you project light into mid air and then cause it to disperse into all directions? How can you project dark into mid air at all?
You can say “it’s a secret” and I can say “well fairies may as well have done 9/11, or the Thunder God did it”.
Clark,
Don’t be sorry- it’s, as always, up to you – but you might find these particular videos speak your language. In fact it’s almost like they were made for you.
Chin up everyone we haven’t even left the WTC yet.
Exexpat, sorry, I think there are some many loose ends to tie up before we look at “9/11 Amateur”.
Who’s we?
John: I hate to break it to you, but anyone saying those planes were holograms – and actually believes it – is certifiably insane. Suggest to them that they check themselves in immediately.
Clark: I’ve been too focused on my discussions with you, so that I’ve allowed this sheer nonsense to go by without comment. I’m sorry for that, but even more sorry that you took this to mean my tacit approval of such utter BS. You might have missed it in your hurry, but I did say that I wanted no rancorous argument with _you_. About anything. That’s why I was bowing out of the discussion (which is not to invalidate your points, Jeez). But you saw that as just being a promising step in the right direction by me instead.
Exexpat: Don’t you think some of this stuff is so “out there” that it allows any rational person to dismiss the whole lot, including confessions gathered under torture as an excuse to start a war for no reason?
Well thank goodness for that. I thought I’d Fallen Down the Rabbit Hole.
Glenn,
What “stuff” ? Please specify.
Cheers
Clark: “I’ve strong reason to believe that it’s impossible. Light is well known to travel in straight lines. How can you project light into mid air and then cause it to disperse into all directions? How can you project dark into mid air at all?”
Well you just get some strong, thick mists to hang about in a convenient spot. Even if they’re invisible to the naked eye. You time it just right using HARP and ultra-secret weapons technology (which Alex Jones et cetera) just happens to know all about, and has been ranting on about with impunity for at least a decade – revealing all these ultra, ultra secrets of state) to time it for 9-11, and Presto! Your holograms appear with sound, vibration, on radar, the lot. C’mon Clark, keep up mate.
Exexpat, sorry, I should have written “before we discuss…”
Exexpat, are you associated with Simonshack? Simonshack’s the maker of the “September Clues” videos, right?
And who are “The Cavemen”? Are they a band? Are the September Clues website and videos part of their publicity?
Exexpat, are you associated with Simonshack?
No.
Simonshack’s the maker of the “September Clues” videos, right?
Yes.
And who are “The Cavemen”? Are they a band? Are the September Clues website and videos part of their publicity?
No idea.
***************
Good night Clark, Glenn and John.