The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
As far as I have seen the answer is YES, Straw, but surely the police would have tested that statement from BM, I don’t recall any further comment from them on it……..but …..with the way they’ve handled this nothing would surprise me.
Sorry BB, you do not know anything about ‘the kill team’ let alone if they carried phones.
All you do know is that there are 4 dead bodies & two children , one injured.
BM had a phone & no one knows yet if he was or wasn’t in ‘the kill team’.
Bluebird
A question should be asked of the British media as to why they have not asked about the broken roof rack fitting and the dirt marks on the roof that appear consistent with the carriage of a roofbox.
As this would not be based on “theories” (conspiracy or otherwise) but purely on photographic evidence, refusal to ask such a question by the media would confirm if there is a “block” on this investigation (Court Order, Defence Advisory Notice, general request or other).
Katie
That exactly is it. you answrred yourself.
When BM had a phone then he was not part of the kill team
when he had a phone then he wasnt in any team at all.
When he was in a team, then he wasnt there when he had a phone.
No intelligence team and no military team carries private mobile phones when on duty. you learn that in lesson 1 during your education.
Thats why i said: BM was an actor with script. when he was part of a team then he wasnt there.
Saad was an amateur what you can see in that he had mobile phones in his car.
Not even drug dealers would carry mobile phones when there is a big deal. they could as well leave a message to police before dealing if they were as stupid using a mobile. mobile phones are tracking devices.
“… they wouldn’t want to kill children…” Lizzie007 at 8:17am on 4.12.12.
Well, they did try to kill the eight year-old, in a somewhat ham-fisted manner, and they seem to have missed the younger girl altogether – as did the police for many hours afterwards. There is no evidence, from what we know, they they deliberately spared the children.
The hit seems to display some professional and some amateur aspects, which might lead one to speculate – and of course, it is all, all nearly 20,000 comments of it (there have been two threads on tis subject on this blog), speculation – that whoever did it had some military training, but that they were not a super-slick professional hit squad a la MOSSAD/Kidon et al. Unless, of course, the idea was to make it look semi-professional, rather than smoothly professional. Then again, think of David Kelly… possibly an almost botched job. Are organisations now outsourcing not just war, but individual murder, is it a ‘PFI/PPP’ thing, in the same way, say, mercenaries now are used by the USA far more systemically and on a far greater scale than before?
James
I agree about the thule.
Media havent asked a lot of logic questions.
James/Bluebird – I too go round in circles about the roof rack and marks. What could be in there that couldnt be in the boot. If they were half way to France then maybe roof box contents could be more interesting, but they have a caravan to put things in too.
The more recent Thule roof carriers have multiple locks but the Al-Hillis may be a few years old so had less.
Campers said Saad was teaching Zeena how to ride her bike so I assume they rented more bikes from the campsite.
You are assuming too much in this case BB, we do not ‘know’ there was any team, I don’t believe there was , yes I think the killer was hired but not professional, yes he may have had a helper, maybe they were even Iraqis known to Saad & family …….
NA would know of enough to do his dirty work……at a price.
We just do not know.
“The current population of Iraqis in France is estimated at around 8,200.
However, it has been reported that since the invasion of Iraq, France has only accepted 13 refugees.
The United Kingdom has the largest Iraqi community in the Western World with estimates ranging from 250,000 to 450,000. ”
Wiki.
Strawberry….
We have been “told” (or leaked) a great deal. Especially with the latest Sunday Times report. But we haven’t been told anything.
We’ve been told family “snaps” were taken, that Sa’ad was in the car and one daughter outside, that the women were in the rear and that they had seatbelts on, that Sa’ad had “blood splatter marks” on him from Mollier.
Etc, etc and so on.
But that really isn’t anything. Nothing can be built on from that.
The obvious thing is the roofrack. Why is it broken ? How was it broken ? What was attached to it ? Where is it now ?
If that helicopter hadn’t over flew the scene and took those pictures we wouldn’t even have thought he was carrying anything, but what was in the car.
A member of the public from one of the campsites (the second I think) reported that he had a bike on the roof (bikes again !). How true is that report ? Was the witness “led” in anyway to say that ?Did he remove the box at the first campsite and place it in the caravan ?
I did think that letting a civil helicopter over fly was all part of the “show”. But now, with the lack (by that I mean none) of questions relating to this roofrack makes me think that the “press man” took it upon himself to hire a helo and get some shots.
And further, this was a mistake by the police. It has to be.
@Straw44berry
3 Dec, 2012 – 9:50 am
Roger Mollier, Sylvain Molier and Frederique Brun (sic) were all signed up to the support committee of Solidarite & Progres 73.
S&P 73 was a self professed militant LEFT wing association consisting of communists, socialists, trade unionists and environmentalists.
As militant leftists they would have been very much in a minority in Savoie.
NI Syndication hold the photographs of the crime scene.
No idea who the photographer was.
Roland Hoskins took a photo from the helicopter not sure if all of them as we have now seen a different angle.
“I didn’t know who the good or bad men were’ said Zainab.
Did Saad know the person who was sent to kill him & he unwittingly got out of the car to greet him,
Mollier also got out of the car & tried to escape once he saw the gun ?
For anybody wanting to read the Sunday Times article please go to Marilyn Z Tomlins where Lars has kindly copied the article in 2 parts to. I also ask you start reading their forum as well as here because our contributor numbers are growing all too few, just as they did on David Icke in late September.
Please dont just cut and paste the article onto here because I feel we need to start to join forces and enable us to advance where we are right now. So little facts about this case have ever been released and the numbers of French voices on Marilyn’s forum can only help us all.
Now isnt the time to alienate and lose anyone else, Shelock hasnt contributed since and she like many others are missed.
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-murders-still-not-solved/
edit 3.40pm
3 parts
I am posting again the third e-mail that Sam Rosenfeld sent me, threatening to sue me for what I have been claiming, especially, it seems, my connecting William Hershkovitz to the kidon which committed the massacre in France:
—– Original Message —–
From: Press (Media)
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 12:45 PM
Subject: Legal Notice
Dear Mr Ford,
As you are aware I have previously written to you regarding your false and malicious (libel) statements that you had caused to be published online.
Having refused to remove the offending material, I must now advise you that the material has been recently re-published.
I therefore have decided to bring a legal action against you and the other perpetrators in respect of this matter.
Proceedings will be issued at the High Court in London and served on you within the next 28 days.
A per-litigation notification will be served on you within the next 7 days.
I will therefore be in touch in due course with regard to this matter.
Kindest Regards
Sam Rosenfeld
I never received a per-litigation notificiation of any action, and it has now been more than 28 days when papers would allegedly be served on me, and nothing has been served.
I consider this to be a scare tactic to stop me from doing anything about the massacre, particularly the murder of Swedish national Suhaila al-Allaf and her daughter, Iqbal al-Hilli, and I shall be consulting with Swedish legal counsel about a counter suit against him and possibly others who got me banned from positing on The Local, and who so scared codshit.com’s Edward Chanter that he took down what allegedly offended Rosenfeld,and stopped allowing me to post there.
Rosenfeld’s behavior, especially since he has said that he has worked for the Mossad, is the best evidence we have about who was behind the massacre, and I hope to make the best of it in court after I return here in February.
Either…. or…. BM has shown up on TV. Some aspects agree with what other people saw. PD met him. And 2 females. And the convoy rushing up the hill. So he was real … or he was put there to act a part. PD has not shown his face. He corroborates BM – if he exists in reality. The fireman saw PD. etc One day he may appear as a witness in a court. Until then either…. or…..
If the make believe is incredible (probably) then consider the more mundane alternative. BM’ story: a) he adds a smokescreen of sort of trying to, you know, give a kind of impression that’s maybe about as fairly accurate as far as anyone can say; and b)appears to have added half an hour to the time he arrived. So an investigator will need to pick and choose what bits makes sense.
However don’t exclude the element of bravery. a) the innocent. As EM points out this is someone who is cool under fire, un ancien professionnel de la Royal Air Force, le procureur «salue son action» et ses premiers gestes qui ont sans doute sauvé la vie de l’aînée des deux survivantes. On his randonne BM comes upon a very dangerous scene, maybe a lethal danger for him. He stays awhile, his conscience urges him to accompany PD back there again. Looking around anxiously in case the killer was lurking. “Very prevalent” he said.
Or b) the implictaed – BM, with insider knowledge, knowing what happened or guessing what had gone wrong. SM had been killed (instead of him?) Yet he stayed a while and returned for a second look.
So the procurer was right to «salue son action». Other possibilities for his presence have been aired. But would it be fair to say of him . from at least these two perspectives, his actions were brave?
Bluebird: totally agree that Phillip D was brought in after the fact to explain inconsistencies. If BM was there, he was no doubt coached/informed this was a national security matter after the fact and told what to say.
Katie: you ask how the killers made the call. Don’t you think operatives have ways of communicating other than cell phones? You yourself suggest that SAH actually called Paris whilst being shot at and trying to drive away– which is totally implausible. Makes me question your motives for making such odd suggestions.
Suhayl: If they had wanted to kill the girls they would have. No evidence to suggest they tried to. I think something went wrong-maybe she was out of the car and started screaming? They had to shut her up.
Those suggesting SAH and family were extracted is crazy. As some have mentioned, there were much easier ways to accomplish this. This was a targeted killing, in my opinion. We’ll probably never know why.
The lack of photos, funneral info for Mollier suggests intelligence agent. That’s the MO.
Lizzie, you didn’t answer my question though , so why don’t you tell us more about your idea of communication between the killer & HQ ?
You may think my suggestion of SAAD making a call ‘implausible’ I beg to differ, it is perfectly rational for a satellite engineer to have a satellite phone & perfectly plausible that his wife knew how to use it !
Lizzie
I agree that something in that plan went probably pretty wrong regarding Zainab. First of all I believe that they did not expact that he had his family and his children in the car. Secondly, perhaps Zainab got so angry that she tried to fight (one of) the killer(s) and he had no other chance for getting rid of her than to injure her severely.
Without Zainab being injured, they would have had a LOT of time to clean and to prepare everything. With Zainab being injured, however, they likely had to act quickly and rather unprepared since she did need health care as soon as possible. That is when BM was instructed to be the “witness riding on a bicycle” and finding Zainab. I believe that the poor guy wasn’t even there at the scene and they picked him up from his house, teling him what’s to say as his script while they were driving him close to that scene. Meanwhile the HQ called 112 and the police and fireworkers were arriving, too. I believe that BM was used as an actor for the others being able to act quickly with emergency care for Zainab. They did need “somebody” finding them. Otherwise it could have taken hours or even a day before the next accident cyclist or driver would have passed that location, particularly because it had been already pretty late on that day.
Ok, Katie. You don’t think the assassins would also have the same kind of satelite phone/radio you suggest SAH had? You think, under fire, the daughter outside the car, they’d be able to grab the phone and dial for help? This likely happened VERY quickly. But yet you think he called the Paris embassy of all places? Strange…
Bluebird: totally agree and will add I think they wanted to control how the bodies were found as opposed to some random hiker/cyclist hence the need for BM (if that’s his real name) and PD.
The question is why? And why did the French and British go along with the story in public? Some foreign government clearly thinks they can get away with murder on foreign soil..
Sorry Lizzie, you have not read all the posts, I made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that he was on this meet WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BRITISH.
Therefore, he would call or his wife, to say things had gone drastically wrong….and yes the daughter outside the car would make no difference to that call, you know one person driving ,one making a call,why didn’t the third person call to get Zainab ?
You make it sound as though Saad was alone !
Please don’t jump in aggressively without some homework first……..I have given my theory in full detail & I’m not about to spell it all again for you.
Katie, I have read the vast majority of posts though I did skip over some I thought were inane. If the British “knew” about the meeting in advance, why did it take so long for the “military types” AKA MI6 to show up? Wouldn’t they have at least some capable people in the area, i.e. not Brett Martin? All evidence leads me to believe they were scrambling and found out after the fact.
Lizzie why on earth would they have people in the area for a pretty straight forward meeting ?
There was not supposed to be a shooting….
Anyway, as I said I have no interest in going over all I’ve said pertaining to this, on the previous blog & this one.
Excerpt from MZT pt 5
It was only after their father’s death that the two brothers’ relationship began to go badly awry.
By Christmas 2111 they were not on speaking terms and on Christmas Day, Saad was in Spain, finalising affairs at his father’s flat and exchanging messages with friends on Skype. He described how he had tried to sort things out with his brother: ” …him in the next conversation he would say, I told you or I didn’t and so on. He’s been very erratic and lying every time. So I gave up and went to a solicitor friend.”
In this conversation, Saad said his brother had made a will for his father, which he had not told Saad about: “I put half this house in his name when my mother died and now he wants me to buy half of it from him for 400k when he has put nothing into it. And all my work and earnings have gone into this house, you know how hard I worked on it… Please be there in court to tell them when I need you. Because I think this is where it will end up.”
On August 8 this year, Saad took out a caveat on the will to prevent it being executed until the issues were resolved. No wonder he had been stressed and ended up in hospital and spent five nights there in May this year: “Was in hospital for five days last week with a heart problem. Rushed off by ambulance Monday night.”
Saad’s brother is a quiet accountant, and not one of Saad’s friends I spoke to thought him capable of anything like this.
and
On December 16 he left the Brittany Ferries dock in Portsmouth Harbour on a business visit to France.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200388/Did-French-Alps-murder-victims-secret-work-space-satellite-contract-make-prime-assassination-target.html#ixzz2E7IuhKcx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Business in France as well or just in Spain? No short trip.
Philippe D……
Reported in Ghana from the Daily Mail:-
http://liveghana.tv/trending/2012-09-11-22-32-30.html
Why didnt the Daily Mail also report that Philippe D (not his real name)
Thanks to Manny at MZT
Thanks for that Straw, did you notice Saad’s ‘blue’ eyes, funny I thought he would have brown eyes.
Bluebird
3 Dec, 2012 – 10:34 pm You do get the point about the registration number though? Don’t you think it’s a rather quirky co-incidence?
@ Bluebird
Over at:
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-murders-still-not-solved/comment-page-124/#comment-7789
Peter at comment 12-4-2012 at 17:08:07 found something in an African newspaper. The link is over there.
“His name is Abiodun David John, a-33 year old Nigerian resident in the United Kingdom… HE’S a graduate of University of Ghana, Legon where he studied Information Communication Technology (ICT), with special emphasis in software engineering.”
So, he’s not just some low-level person, employed to sit in Internet cafes and communicate with the targets of the scam. Yet another software specialist. Anyway, he did not attend Auchi Polytecnic in Nigeria.