The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Very descriptive NR. 🙁
Interestingly that small section of the rear seat seen in one photo was remarkably clean & as far as one can see the windows were not blood splattered…which they would be with your scenario….wouldn’t they ?
Tim V 5 Dec, 2012 – 2:55 am
“Oh yea a middle aged man with wife, mother in law and kids engages in drug deal in remote forest spot with known criminal types Bleb
5 Dec, 2012 – 12:15 am. Not very likely eh?”
Not likely but not impossible. The Sunday Times story said Saad was earning 28 thousand pounds per year for consulting, hardly enough to pay taxes on the place at Claygate* and the power bill for his bank of computers. 🙂 Did he have off the books income or had he borrowed money from unsavory sources and couldn’t repay it. They demand a “favour” a quick trip to France, deliver something or pick something up, no danger at all. Maybe it was drugs going north or the drug money going south.
And maybe his hospitalization for heart problems wasn’t due to a dispute with Zaid, but a panic attack when he realized how deep he was in with dangerous people.
Wasn’t there some British mom that got arrested a few months ago in Southeast Asia for big-time smuggling? If I recall, she claimed she was forced into it because somebody made threats against her children.
There’s also SM who was supposedly on a three month or three year unpaid paternity leave from Cezus. If it was three years he likely had another source of income, what with a five thousand Euro bike + new baby. Though I recall reading someone said he had his own side business or intended starting one. They didn’t specify what the business was, the implication was it was related to his work.
What were taxes on the Claygate house, or a comparable property?
@ Katie 5 Dec, 2012 – 5:42 am
“Very descriptive NR. Interestingly that small section of the rear seat seen in one photo was remarkably clean & as far as one can see the windows were not blood splattered…which they would be with your scenario….wouldn’t they ?”
The description comes not from movies, but from a friend who had the misfortune to open a door at the exact moment someone on the other side was suiciding with a .45 to the temple. Friend was in-line, a few feet away, on the opposite side of victim’s head and gave graphic description of how he was covered in pink mist and pink brain goo plus bits of skull and hair.
If one person was killed in the car it’s possible the blood and gore would all go down and not hit the windows, but with three shot in a manner that they’d be known on sight to be dead is most unlikely.
I don’t understand why people keep repeating that ex-RAF BM must have had encounters with shot persons. Very few people in the military have actual close-up combat experience, it used to be less than 10%, and the RAF or Navy are the least likely to. Police and rescue are far more likely to have seen the results of shootings.
@NR
5 Dec, 2012 – 5:50 am
Assuming the house is in the highest band (H), which it may well not be as it is not exactly a mansion, the Council Tax would be £2,299.32 for the year.
http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/283915/council-tax-leaflet.web.pdf
So not impossible on an income of £28 grand a year,especially if a proportion of the domestic expenses were claimed as part of the busines expenses!
Off Topic: If I can tell a quick story about unrealistic movie shootings. Some years ago, in Oakland, California, a group of school children were taken to a Steven Spielberg Holocaust movie. Some broke into laughter as victims were shot. Great political crisis. The kids were consigned to sensitivity training. They explained they weren’t laughing at the victims, but at the director, ’cause many of them had seen people shot and that was not how they died, all twitching around.
Mochyn69 5 Dec, 2012 – 6:26 am
“@NR 5 Dec, 2012 – 5:50 am”
“Assuming the house is in the highest band (H), which it may well not be as it is not exactly a mansion, the Council Tax would be £2,299.32 for the year.”
Thanks for finding. Way lower than I expected. Still, it’s a big piece of his declared income.
@NR
5 Dec, 2012 – 6:42 am
And the council tax is payable in 10 equal monthly instalments, so spreads the pain a little!
NR.
Dreadful story, how awful to witness something so horrific !
The French police did not need to look through a window at the victims, all they had to do was reach into the drivers window which was already smashed & unlock the doors.
Their story from day one about not wanting to force open doors in case the window caved in & disturb the scene, is risible.
I don’t believe for one minute AH was into drug smuggling, he adored his little girls as Aked said he’d do nothing to endanger them, not to mention taking them on a drug dealing meet…..plus wife & MIL.
Remember his words…….. ‘I’ve done something stupid’ ?
I think that was to ‘tell’ someone something.
While posters continue to ignore my posts as irrelevant irritants to the discussion while they lead it on an endless wild goose chase, I must say that I am the only one getting anywhere in the investigation.
Now a poster on The Local, The Nine, has tried to fill in the gap caused by Sam Rosenfeld’s empty threats by starting a thread there about me, making all kinds of erroneous claims, especially that I have been institutionalized in some mental hospital in Taby, Sweden.
The Nine has appeared on this site as Anonymous and Ian Hunter on the thread about its outage – which were taken down when I figured out who he is, and the lies he was then engaging in.
He is better known in the British intelligence world as Martin Ingram and Ian Hurst. In those capacities he tried to cover up what Captain Simon Hayward did in Northern Ireland and here in Stockholm to statsminister Olof Palme. Then he tried to make out that I was threatening the life of Sam Rosenfeld – what got him to go after me with his endless threats.
The most important things that Ingram did was to prevent serious investigations of British military collusion in what the Provisional IRA was doing – what frustrated what Sir John Stevens was attempting.
In sum, Ian Hurst is a leading British disinformer, and his getting involved in frustrating what I am attempting now only adds to its legitimacy – i. e., William Hershkovitz was working for the Mossad when it committed the massacre in France.
If I do sue Rosenfeld for attempting to shut me up about it, I shall be including Hurst in it too, along with others and the website, The Local, and the Swedish Security Service, Säpo.
And the massacre was far different from what a kidon did to Dr. David Kelly. There it was trying to make out that Kelly killed himself while here it was trying to kill everyone in the target area.
Kelly put up such a spirted fight, though, that his body had to be moved to Harrrowdown Hill by the TVP to help hide the struggle, and to move it well away from where the kidon had spent the night in killing Kelly.
In the massacre, it was the members of the kidon, especially Hershkovitz, it seems, who caused the problems.
Tim V
Please try and catch up with the thread completely before replying and make notes of times you want to reply to.
Philippe D not his real name please read the headline in the following link:-
http://liveghana.tv/trending/2012-09-11-22-32-30.html
Sometimes its right under your nose lol
Another thing, all this talk of broken roof rack.
Take a look at NR’s large photo & it’s clear that when the car arrived at the parking spot the roof bars were as they are now seen.
Nothing has been touched on that roof for days, just look at how the wind has made a line in dust along the one bar in place. There is no line where the missing bar was.
I’m more intrigued with the marks on the bonnet which have never been discussed.
http://liveghana.tv/trending/2012-09-11-22-32-30.html
Tim V
Here is the MZT link:-
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-murders-still-not-solved/#comment-6068
Lars posted Sunday Times article in 5 parts
Part 1 2.52.29 pm 4/12
Part 5 6.45.05 pm 4/12
Katie @7.45am
We werent suggesting a missing bar but a roof box that someone levered off because they didnt have the key. This action could have created that white mark above the left rear door on the roof.
For a bullet to have made that mark the shot would need to be almost vertical upwards or downwards which seems unlikely.
THF
If I am into astronomy and like seeing The Plough, Orion’s Belt or the Pleiades. If you were to constantly talk about your knowledge of Deep Sky Objects, using your amazing telescope it would be of little interest to me, if you never spoke of things that I could see with the naked eye or my binoculars.
The fact that your telescope is always trained on the same aspects of this case certainly just alienates me. I know next to nothing about Mossad and it was even less before this case, so I have nothing constructive to add to anything you say. You could take part in the rest of our discussions but you choose not to.
You could easily discuss roof boxes or bullet marks without constantly having to refer to the late Mr H.
Straw that still would not explain the dust formation.
Had there been a box the dust line would still be the same both sides.
The area of the now missing bar is very different, so how can that be explained if there was a box up there ?
Plus, I don’t believe he could have had a bicycle AND box on the roof, the Dutch witness said a bicycle.
Totally untrue, Straw44berry.
I do take part in other discussions, like earlier threads about the massacre, Leon Panetta’s new plans for the Pentagon, Craig’s research about Britain’s imperial efforts when it relates to my research into Henry Brougham and A. V. Dicey,the murder of FBI agent Steve Ivens when discussing the problems facing whistlesblowers to cover up settting him up as an assassin of Barack Obama to improve his re-election chances, what caused the outage of this site, etc.
Looks like all you read is this one, and I shall only stop looking into Willaim Hershkovitz’s activities and writing about it when I run out of leads, or some plausíble explanation is given for his nightmares, pounding on walls after he awoke from them, and threatening people in the same program – what culminated in his murdering work/study boss Armando al-Abed, and his own killing to cover up the whole mess.
What made Hershkovitz behave in this way? Was he really a psychopath before he went to Israel in August? If so, how could he have been allowed into the JAFI’s Oranim program?
Katie
Notice the picture on the 1st page of 4 here:-
http://www.thule.com/en/gb
Box and bike
Katie
Whether or not a roof box or a bicycle, somebody took it off with force.
I agree that the white marks on the roof suggest that it was broken with some kund of leverage. Since there is the same mark on the back of the car on its roof (in the middle close to the rear side) i would guess that there was a thule on that day.
Two leverage force drills, one from the side and one from the back would remove that thule from the roof even then when you dont have keys for it.
It is most unlikely that there were any drugs. You dont bring drugs from the UK to france and you dont bring drugs from your Geneve bank into france, crossing the boarder to switzerland. That is nuts.
However, it might have been full with cash from the bank (or something else that was in a deposit box).
NR
Right. In europe you need an MD to confirm death. Particularly at a crime scene.
What if one woman was still alive for 3 hours but they did not help her? Impossible! The first thing they are doing at any crime scene is to determine about who is dead and who needs to be hospitalized and who needs first aid. Nobody, particularly no MD, would testify that by looking through a window. He would end in jail if lateron it would be approved that one person could have been saved when she were given first aid in time.
The first thing at any crime scene would be the MD checking the victims physically (not visually!) whether or not they are dead!
Ok Straw, seen that now, but I really cannot believe Saad needed to do that,afterall he was towing a much bigger box !
Why on earth would he want one on the roof ?
In all the cars in my tourist area here, I have only seen one of the other, bike or box & the boxes are much deeper than that Thule.
Tim v
Yes, a strange coincidence with the plate numbers. However, they are new and the numbers are subsequential in france. Simply coincidence. All the plates are telling us is the fact that this car was first registered in oct. 2011 and that it is from dept. Haute savoie.
Straw /BB you are both talking about force & bullet marks which I am not,I repeat, look at the straight DUST LINE, it runs close to & along one side only, the bar side.
THW
as long as you are deliberately mistyping the name HERSKOWITZ, as long i can’t take your input to be serious.
Why could he go into this program? Perhaps you missed that he is the grandson of two of the highest ranked ZOA members, the Wolfzahn family. They are sittong on the same table at ZOA with Mr. Morton A Klein.
You read this name in a newspaper where a dumb journalist cannot even type his own name correctly and although we did present you documents from the whole family until back in 1930 when they lived in Budapest, you are not willing to update your error.
Therefore i dont take your posts serious and categorize them jnto the false flags posts. Sadly for you so …
@Katie
5 Dec, 2012 – 9:16 am
I think you’re right about this one. Which photo do you say demonstrates this most clearly? Can you post a link to help us out.
No Katie,
We know about the dust line and all the dirt on the roof, why is there no dirt on the back of the roof or on the bonnet? If you remember I spoke at length about my roof box experiences.
I dont think the marks are conclusive but the bullet mark on the roof probably being in the perfect place to lever off a roof box seems significant.
There certainly wasnt a lost symmetrical roof bar like the remaining one, I agree.
Katie
That might suggest that the thule was exactly on that side where the broken rack had been.
Why a thule?
Perhaps to hide something when crossing the border. It does not look good nor clever when you store e.g. 30 gold bars in the back of a van while you could look through the windows.
Here you are Mochyn, you can see the aerodynamics created the dust line.
http://liveghana.tv/trending/2012-09-11-22-32-30.html
Straw, so explain why AH would need a box when he had a caravan ?
Well he didnt take the caravan to Geneva.
It’s not just dust, it is a specific line of dust which could only be created after driving some miles when the dust rolled off the bar,it is undisturbed yet the is no line at all on the opposite side…….which means the roof is as it was when driving there.
Had there been a box the line wouldn’t be there or at least the dust would be the same both sides.
If anything has been prised off it was not during that incident.
Straw.
He wouldn’t need to take a very visible box to Geneva, he could use the spare tyre well for gold bars etc.
Imagine unloading heavy gold bars [?] from a Thule in view of all in a public place.
Katie
the dust line indicates a Thule on that side where the bar is broken.
It starts at the front window and ends approx 1 foot off tha rear door of the car.
That isnt really dust. It’s caused while driving during rainfall. You can even see tge size and the form of the Thule when looking at the front window.
I did not say that he had gold bars. That was just an example. However, banks have discreet garages where you can load money and other valuables from or to your deposit box.
And the place in the forest where he had been wasnt a public place either. There were no crowds of witnesses. Whatever there had been in that Thule, it was important for the killers.