The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
While visiting Icke — and please notice that Felix has some new posts, including a video of the towing away of the Al-Hilli’s caravan — I noticed that another photo has been removed (so that it is not depicted anymore, because I used the web address of the image].
Before it was just Francois on the Stadium which had been removed, but now also him and Lydia together have been removed, which is why I will shortly publish them again from the backup to my own computer, which I made.
sorensen
the m.facebook is no conspiracy. This is just the mobile website of facebook.
When on a PC try:
http://www.facebook.com/rasta.des.montagnes?id=1319973720&_rdr
I see that the mobile site displays only very few data on a PC. There is much more when you use the www link on a PC.
Intelligence, even among NATO countries, isn’t always a two-way street, according to this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism
“Whether the allegations about the Dubai meeting are confirmed or not, the wider leaks from the French secret service throw a worrying light on the rivalries and lack of coordination between intelligence agencies, both within the US and between western allies.
A familiar complaint of French intelligence is that collaboration with the Americans has been essentially one-way, with them happy to receive information while giving little in return.”
@Straw44berry: Yet another possibility, as you suggest. One example:
http://www.armedforces-int.com/suppliers/telerob-gmbh.html
Tracks? Check.
It has crossed my mind that whatever happened at Chevaline could have been a case of various intelligence agencies for various nations working at cross-purposes. As Marlin says, why so complicated?
So, if we stop believing that the official version of events is true, this could be a case of extraction and assassination combined. One agency could have removed certain individuals, before they ever got to that meeting on the mount. As I’ve said before, when was the last time the al-Hillis were seen by someone who knew them enough to be certain they were the al-Hillis from Claygate? And if the little girls didn’t even recognize “grandma”, how could strangers at a campground know who she was?
Straw44berry
11 Jan, 2013 – 7:38 am. What can be learned from marks left by tyres? There are standing marks left in a wet malleable surface such as damp mud that can tell you from the tread design the exact tyre. A spinning or skidding wheel either in acceleration or braking is unlikely to reveal the tyre for obvious reasons but there is still much to be gleaned. The width between the two (if there are parallel ones) will give you the track dimensions of the vehicle. If both front and rear lock and skid the wheelbase length is revealed. If the the vehicle is fitted with ABS or anti skid this fact might be revealed also. In acceleration marks information such as the differential on the driving wheels or four wheel drive may well be indicated. Then there is the width of the tyre mark itself. Steering wheels from driving wheels can be differentiated which will also indicate whether this is a front wheel or rear wheel drive or four wheel drive from which may be deduced direction of travel. A skid to stop has different characteristics to the marks made from a spinning wheel, the latter throwing material in the opposite direction of travel. If what the police spokes man says is correct, and they studied the marks carefully, they will have aerial shots, ground shots, close up, impressions and samples that will go a long way towards identifying the vehicle and painting a fairly accurate picture of what they did.
Now as to those marks in front of the BMW I would repeat the most obvious explanation would be they were caused by it whilst doing an emergency reverse, after first travelling forwards probably and finding the route blocked by man or machine or even possibly a change of mind (to collect Zainab for example). An alternative would be the marks left by the transporter as we dont have aerial pictures of the car actually being loaded. I don’t see the need to postulate bomb disposal vehicle as its unlikely to have got past the press, up and down without being spotted for starters.
@Straw: Didn’t some police panel vans arrive at Chevaline? Whatever was in them is up to the imagination. I believe reporters were held back down the hillside for hours.
@Straw44berry: It is my understanding that these UAVS rely on GPS technology for navigation. They follow GPS gridlines. One UAV provided images from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in the days following the earthquake, tsunami and explosions.
UAVs likely were available in Japan, which is one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. Those UAVS were likely on the scene of the earthquake and tsunami soon after it happened, and they did likely capture images. In order to follow this line of thinking, it would follow that the GPS satellites were fully functional, in order for the UAVs to follow their signals. If the GPS satellites were functional, it follows that other satellites would be, too. Of course, satellites in low orbit would be much more prone to disturbances on the ground than others in higher orbit. Many satellites seemed to be in good working order in the days after the EQ and tsunami. In other words, the 24-hour gap in satellite imagery (or UAV images for that matter), is an embargo, not an equipment failure issue.
News helicopters were in the air taking footage of the tsunami, so it seems they were not knocked out, nor were they impeded from flying by air traffic control. They wouldn’t have radiation monitoring equipment or infrared cameras, like the satellites and UAVS.
You will remember Q
11 Jan, 2013 – 3:04 pm that at the time of the London Tube bombing in July 2005, the head of French Intelligence I believe criticised MI 5/6 for not heed ing their warnings which included specific information. In your quote the French were anxious to point out American double dealing over Asama bin Laden whose family were close associates of the Bushes and spirited out of the country after 9/11. Who can tell what the main objective of these organisations is, or who is working with whom against whom, or who gets killed as a result? France used to take a rather anti-American stance, withdrawing from Nato, its own nuclear weapon independently controlled, anti-2nd gulf war etc. In this case I’m not so sure. More recently closer defence ties with Britain, leading role again with Britain in Libya, now supporting opposition to Assad in Syria. Recent Kurdish assassinations in Paris – is this Turkish agents or someone else (Israel????) stoking more unrest in the region leading to independent Kurdistan affect Iraq, Syria and Turkey? Who can tell who’s trying to do what with whom? At least in the Cold War it was east v. west, capalists v. communist, democracty v. totalitarianism. With the fall of USSR suddenly we have Al Queida from nowhere to justify American aggression and inchoate fear to cover the real reasons of money, resouces and power.
Thanks everyone for all the thought-provoking posts these past days.
Did anyone see this story?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/world/europe/three-kurdish-activists-killed-in-central-paris.html?_r=0
I see we posted simultaneously, Tim V.
Here we go again. It’s a feud!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/turkish-pm-killing-of-3-kurdish-activist-in-paris-seems-like-feud-among-kurds/2013/01/11/b54d9118-5bc8-11e2-b8b2-0d18a64c8dfa_story.html
Maybe one of them had disputed a will. Still waiting for the stories claiming it was a lone nutter, although the door locked from the outside kind of puts that into Gareth Williams territory.
Just for you, NR, there’s a red clue. Didn’t the other erstwhile redhead visit an internet cafe in Paris whose Turkish staff member turned him in?
If someone was in Paris, and needed some extra cash, would they go to an “internet cafe”? Is “internet cafe” the new “hawala broker”?
Sorry, NR, the internet cafe was in Berlin. I am trying to establish that, like elsewhere including the U.K., there are “internet cafes” in France.
@ Q 11 Jan, 2013 – 5:28 pm
“Sorry, NR, the internet cafe was in Berlin. I am trying to establish that, like elsewhere including the U.K., there are “internet cafes” in France.”
Often small “internet cafes” are combined with other little enterprises. A few computers for email and gaming, traditional wire transfer for money, payroll cashing, hawala service – specific to hometowns at the other end, jewelry buying and selling, computer sales and repair, mobile phone sales and reloads, ice-cream shop and so on all in one compact store-front.
A few more links:
Wednesday, 05.09.2012, 17:46 (french)
(http://www.lessorsavoyard.fr/Actualite/Fil_Infos_regionales/article_1623629.shtml)
…
Wednesday, 05.09.2012, 21:52 photos
(http://www.lessorsavoyard.fr/Actualite/Fil_Infos_regionales/article_1623642.shtml)
…..
Thursday, September 6, 2012,
(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0906/breaking1.html)
….
6 Sep 2012 18:48
useful info/Finding Zeena/SAH holiday plans/photos
(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shootings-pictures-of-bullet-riddled-1308571)
………
7 September 2012 Timeline/ white Peugeot 206 or 306/
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199670/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Was-hitman-Each-British-victims-shot-TWICE-cyclist-witness-FIVE-times.html)
Witnesses have described hearing around 30 seconds of gunfire at the isolated beauty spot next to woods on the outskirts of Chevaline.
…..
Sep 7, 2012 video
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap3DK7myAN4&feature=related)
…..
7 September 2012 mentions sound of shots/
A patch of broken glass could still be seen some 15 yards from where the family’s red BMW estate was discovered
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200062/Amid-quiet.html#ixzz2HhPSHBhg )
……
Published on Sep 7, 2012/video
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk-Z-IACDaw)
……..
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2012 video/french
(http://www.tsitv.fr/videos/lieux-crime-acc.php)
….
10.25.2012
(http://www.francetvinfo.fr/ou-en-est-l-enquete-sur-la-tuerie-de-chevaline_160149.html)
……
Info/Bomb Squad/builder. Laurent Fillion-Robin
10 Sep 2012
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9532922/France-shooting-al-Hilli-family-neighbours-evacuated-amid-bomb-fears.html)
Several army officers were seen deep in conversation with officers at the scene. Police were seen searching on “hands and knees at the rear of the property…
……
Press Conference
Published on Sep 13, 2012
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=XFaK7XF_GDk&feature=endscreen)
…..
15 september 2012 Gary Aked/chatroom rants
(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315)
…
27/10/2012 french
(http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2012/10/27/tuerie-de-chevaline-les-secrets-d-une-scene-de-crime_1782012_3224.html)
Mr Mollier bike was found at this location. This bicycle racing high-end is estimated at more than 5000 euros, and its owner never came here. His stepfather had advised him that area, however inauspicious to make his exit.
….
No problem Q
11 Jan, 2013 – 4:11 pm. You prob missed my earlier post @ Tim V
10 Jan, 2013 – 10:03 pm.
Right you are, Tim V, I did miss that.
The NYT article notes the double-taps and the door locked from outside.
Speaking of areas with kebab shops (NYT article), I started looking at the streets in towns with internet cafes, close to Chevaline. I found one in Doussard.
Was Saad al-Hilli using the internet at an internet cafe during his absences from the campground? Google maps says the drive from Saint-Jorioz to Chevaline takes 15 minutes one way.
I’m starting to see (as those no longer here would also see) this blog go round and round.
The “doors locked” was A. a statement given by the police and B. one which if a BMW had hit the bank with force may have been reason for the locks to “pop”.
So… 1. Do you agree with the police statement(s) ? 2. was there force enough to make the locks “pop”.
I can see why these things go on…and on…and on !
The “police” win.
No one ever gains enough truth…and if (IF) they do, it is in such a merry go round, that simple questions just repeat.
And “Ken” still posts a dead mans picture !
I guess we have reached the bottom of the said container ?
BUT for my part… I wish they could prove it wasn’t a random killer. I think that has been proved.
State killings, rival gangs…or states, war, lasers, nukes…whatever. I am OK with, I can protect myself. Random killers scare the sh*t out of me.
I just hope “however” made some good cash when they were doing the bad things they were doing…before the end that always comes.
That’s life …in that business.
…and if it turns out to be “mossad”. Then I guess we knew.
They are just the rats of the earth.
I am not a big fan of Iran, but if they ever played football against the “peaceful state of “Israel”, I know I’d be shouting “CMOM IRAAAAN” !
Q
I was suggesting about 2 months ago that Saad aas
1) moving to Doussard because there was an internet cafe
and
2) using the internet cafe while he has leaving the camping several times a day.
He would be stupid using his own IP while he was suspicious of being followed.
An internet cafe, particularly one providing VPN, is ideal to stay on the www and in contact with 3rd parties world wide.
I was calculating the 20-30 minutes people said that he always left the camping for such a period. That fits with driving to the cafe, registering, writing a mail or two, and leaving again.
Off topic:
This is the guy who ordered the Paris killings. This was even announced in december:
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-289532-pkk-leader-bahoz-congratulates-terrorists-for-semdinli-incidents.html
Quote:
HPG terrorists say Kurds who stand against terror and refuse to cooperate with the PKK are “collaborators of the AK Party [Justice and Development Party].” Kurds who cooperate with the PKK are, on the other hand, collaborators of the Kurdish people, according to the letter. Terrorists have also threatened Kurds with their lives if they continue refusing to support the terrorist PKK.“The struggle of the Kurdish people has grown and prospered. We hope this year will be a year of victory for us. You and other collaborators of the AK Party will not go unpunished. The ones who need to be warned are being warned, and they will face required punishments. As a result of our research, we have learned that you are supporting our enemies instead of the struggle of the Kurdish people,” the HPG letter read. The letter also warned recipients not to inform Turkish security forces about receiving such letters from the terrorist group.
http://rojhelat.info/en/?p=4817
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahoz_Erdal
http://m.habermonitor.com/en/haber/detay/pkk-bahoz-confessed-before-then-gave-instruct/18841/
http://english.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=articles&id=174269
All links to Iraq and Syria.
I think it’s called using a fine-toothed comb, James. The nuclear angle may be an old one, but I think there is reason to believe Sylvain Mollier’s role and his connection to the Chevaline killings is not as it was portrayed.
It comes down to this: we can accept the official version of events. The problem is that the official events keep shifting, as pointed out above by another poster. We can believe that part of the official story is true, but which part would that be? Finally, we can reject the official story in its entirety as rubbish. If we’d done the first or last, we wouldn’t be on this forum by now. Speaking for myself, I see things in a different light when certain subjects come up again. I admit we seem to go in circles, but hopefully the circles are closing in on the target.
Here’s an old topic, NATO. This article on the murdered Kurds refers to “Operation Gladio”:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/11/us-france-kurds-idUSBRE90907B20130111
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
My last point.
Washington is fed up with “Israel”.
They have had enough of them…and trying to get peace.
The Pkk shootings was probably part of this.
Turkey crossing the border into Syria trying to get them, boots on the ground causing an attack on Turkey, the NATO then having to be part of a counter attack…and so on (NATO DEFENDS ITS OWN. It has to).
Maybe Al Hilli was part of this ?
Tense activity in the region at the time. Fly zones in The Gulf. etc.
All they needed was a trigger.
Bluebird has WELL provided info on the internal fight within the CIA et al. Who is winning. Hopefully the side against Israel and war.
For f*** sake I hope so.
@Bluebird: I meant an “internet cafe”, you know, the full-service kind.
@NR: Remember how the one with the bad red wig shared a cell with a person of a certain ethnic origin?
Q
There is no “good cop bad cop” in all of this.
All sides are bloody nutters.
I have just flown out of Tel Aviv (and now back in Europe “just”).
Again they are on “high alert” and questioning private aircrews.
On a personal note…it pisses me off.
On a “considered” note…..what are they expecting ?
The bomb an the defence dept…not widely reported…was at the same time as the PKK shootings in Paris. Are they stepping things up ?????
Worrying times. And glad we were able to ferry out.
Clearly someone is expecting something. Feck knows what.
But an “in hours” crew was pref…rather than an overnight there.
I am probably spouting frustration.
At times I do at “people” or posters, but seldom at events.
Now I will at events.
I have taken people from one place to another…and then watched as a share price fell (clearly that was the meeting !)
Recently I have taken an “Arab” from a “funny” area to Washington.
Clearly peace talks.
Now I have taken an “unknown” American and party to Tel Aviv from Geneve…and crew swapped in “Europe”. (And jeez is it cold here).
So…what’s happening ?