The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
James
If you were back at the crime scene now, just before the helicopter was about to arrive……listen……aaaand Action!!
Do we know an exact date of when the Hilli family left Surrey for travelling to France or is such a date still pure speculation?
I mean, a neighbour like Saltman should know exactly when they left. Had media reported their departure date?
Could anybody make a timeline protocol of the known knowns regarding the whereabouts of the Hilli family, beginning with their departure until their end, please? That would be helpful. E.g. Departure, when exactly where being (2 campsides), travelling to Geneve, to their Souther France ruin, etc.
Such a timestamp/whereabout protocol could be helpful.
@ Felix @ Bluebird OT JD/AC Norfolk
“July 1997 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE”
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/07/the-widening-gap-between-military-and-society/306158/
“After following a platoon of Marine recruits through eleven weeks of boot-camp training on Parris Island in the spring of 1995, I was stunned to see, when they went home for postgraduation leave, how alienated they felt from their old lives.”
In the wealthy Washington suburb of Potomac, Maryland, Eric D felt the same way. “There are some friends I’ve stayed away from,” he said. “They’re not going anywhere, and I don’t want to be around them. We don’t have any common ground.” Though they are in their early twenties, he said, “they’re not doing anything, living at home, not working, not studying.”
It’s a good article on the alienation between the military and civilian sectors in the US and this is long before 9/11, Afghanistan, WMDs, Gulf War II, drones and the privatisation of military support services by Blackwater, Triple Canopy, etc.
In addition to Potomac, MD, names bring up addresses in the same vicinity: Montgomery Village, MD; Manassas, VA; Rockville, MD; Montgomery Village, MD; OAKTON, VA; GREAT FALLS, VA; MCLEAN, VA; RESTON, VA.
There’s a JD in Washington, DC (202) 363-XXXX
Over at Icke someone commented: “There is a mention of the time away and just before, her mother is given a free Ipad from work. That doesn’t quiet make sense for a nurse unless she won a prize but not sure how it could fit in.”
I can see “someone” arranging a contest and a specific lucky winner and an iPad set up with tracking software. Also, I’m sure some reports said a laptop and hard-drive were recovered from the boat, while others only said a hard drive. If there was a laptop or an iPad on the boat and there was reception in that area it’s another way the girl might have communicated, if she wanted to.
Like Chevaline this biz is so bizarre it leads one to think of an extraction – maybe this one done right. It’s something Seals or their British equivalent could do. Family goes boating, sometime afterward both JD & AC are removed silently, handler stays with girl. Later, two cadavers, one suitably per-decomposed, are deposited, weighted down so they don’t drift off and are never found. Handler leaves, calls river police pretending to be boat rental reporting missing boat. The one week delay to insure JD/AC were well away to wherever before bodies discovered.
It’s one explanation for the girl’s seeming unconcern a week later. She’s in on it. JD’s family in Arizona seems to be conservative and patriotic, so they’d go along with it if asked.
Another point, are there any home restoration experts among us. The two pics of JD appear taken in a restored (gentrified) home, with the pressed tin wall covering, etc. Anyone know if that’s a UK or US style and what area? If they were lifted from a now scrubbed Facebook page, why only two pics? Are they a clue in themselves? The other dude with his back to the camera?
NR
I was wondering about the second guy on that photo, too.
We dont know where nor when the photo was taken.
It doesnt really look like a kitchen in an average British house. All the settings do more look like a rented holiday ski hut apartment or similar. Perhaps a vacation photo where two familis rent a house for vacation and the two husbands do the dishes washing. To me it looks like that.
NR, felix
I too feel that we should investigate the other known locations where JD was living before, e.g. Potomac, Manassa, …) Perhaps we can find significances when putting all those places together (e.g. Military bases or company branches or being places of similar crimes, etc.)
Can anyone here enquire of the Surrey Coroner state of play as regards Al Hilli inquest?
@TimV
I haven’t got round to writing – been busy on another case….will get the letter off soon.
I have started a new Icke forum on Didier BTW
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236195
Another aside in the mountains of information gleaned from Chevaline: the French lawyer for Linda and Michael Mastro once worked for Air France:
http://fr.linkedin.com/in/tterrier
@Bluebird, 10:44 a.m.: That is the question, isn’t it?
Tim V *PM:
Add another five to your list of similarities between Chevaline and Norfolk cases:
1. No picture ever released of woman/women: Annette Creegan and daughter – nada, but two photos released of a male, John Didier, very shortly after the events: a head shot and another picture with a male ‘friend”. In Chevaline it was SAH and Akers moving, here it is Didier and friend “cooking.
2. Families of the victims strangely silent. To us, who hear or read of the case, that inquest screams to high heaven. But the families? no comment. In the Norfolk case, it’s that much more puzzling seeing that members of JD family are in the private investigation business. Really now….were they born yesterday? would anyone hire such amazingly complacent PIs? they go along with JD declared a murderer, without much evidence other than, apparently, why not?
3. An astounding lack of curiosity/interest on the part of reporters/MSM papers. Wow, one could collect the grand total of questions in a thimble.
4. Mafia-style execution elements: double taps to head in one case, weighed down by weights in the other. But absolutely nothing to show any mafia connection anywhere in the victims history. Staged?
5. The similarities in MOs about the handling of the case by the authorities are actually astounding. both all but carry a giant neon sign :Cover-up in progress. do not disturb”. No attempt to make a semblance of competence in the cover-up. As if the public not only doesn’t matter, but can be safely treated as complete idiots. Somebody somewhere thas truly low opinion of the “public”;s intelligence and/or aptitude.
I have, of course, a grand conspiracy theory to fit all these peculiar similarities. A bit far fetched, perhaps, but….
@ bluebird 12 Feb, 2013 – 1:30 pm
“NR I was wondering about the second guy on that photo, too.
We dont know where nor when the photo was taken.”
“It doesnt really look like a kitchen in an average British house. All the settings do more look like a rented holiday ski hut apartment or similar. Perhaps a vacation photo where two familis rent a house for vacation and the two husbands do the dishes washing. To me it looks like that.”
Good point, but you’ve slipped into an old stereotype. In this instance the two husbands are cooking – one at the stove and the other peeling something. Their female partners do dishes later, or there’s a dishwashing machine. 🙂
The house in not an authentic restoration since I see the kitchen faucets are expensive and modern, and I don’t think any old places had those island type kitchen counters with sink across from the stove, so you’re right it’s could be a rental.
There is a young child involved off-screen — the pink Donald Duck sippy-cup on the right of the counter. JD’s Stinnes Logistics black tee — is that a purposeful message to “someone” — was that why the pic was selected?
In the pic of the evidence tech removing the box from the boat the top sheet of the pre-printed form on the clipboard is visible. Don’t see any boxes checked off or that might be a clue. Remember the case in the UK where some authority let papers be seen as the left a crime scene or press conference and the media magnified and published the pic, revealing secret info?
Re the blood stained sheet or fabric reported as evidence. It might not be a bedsheet on a bunk, but a sheet the murderer used to wipe his own blood if injured by AC in a fight.
Marlin 12 Feb, 2013 – 4:48 pm
“Tim V *PM: Add another five to your list of similarities between Chevaline and Norfolk cases:
1. No picture ever released of woman/women: Annette Creegan and daughter – nada, but two photos released of a male, John Didier, very shortly after the events: a head shot and another picture with a male ‘friend”. In Chevaline it was SAH and Akers moving, here it is Didier and friend “cooking.”
I totally missed that parallel. There’s SAH’s “Skiing Club” logo — is that a purposeful messsage too? It’s not the Kandahar ski club either. Looks more like a family club logo – cross-country skiing?
@Bluebird @Marlin
Good comments. I think that’s our Eric B. Great Falls – often pops up in Langley related topics as residence place.
@Bluebird
12 Feb, 2013 – 10:44 am
@BB Departure time not known here’s some clues.
The family loved travelling across Europe in their caravan and were understood to own a property in the Dordogne region of south-west France.
On this occasion, Mr Al-Hilli told neighbours how the family were going on a spur-of-the-moment two-week holiday to ‘get some sunshine and cure his sore back’.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199513/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Extraordinary-life-engineer-victim.html#axzz2Khb9n2NV
………
It doesn’t say when BB it might help if you know when VAT returns have to be done by.
Mr Stedman, who lives in Foley Road, Claygate, said: “The day he was going [to France] I was trying rapidly to get his VAT return done.
“He was rushing down to collect his mother-in-law from Reading. I think she was the person who was with them.”
and
The family were said to have been staying at the Le Solitaire du Lac campsite in Saint-Jorioz since the beginning of the month.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2120121_video_claygate_family_in_alps_shootings_horror.
…….
6:00AM BST 11 Sep 2012
Saad al-Hilli, 50, checked into the Village Camping Europa site in Saint Jorioz on Saturday last week after making a “spontaneous reservation”.
and
Mr Janssen said: “We were told they planned to stay all week but they left suddenly after two days.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9534285/France-shooting-Murdered-Briton-was-acting-strangely-before-family-were-killed.html
@ felix 12 Feb, 2013 – 3:13 pm
“@TimV – I haven’t got round to writing – been busy on another case….will get the letter off soon.”
With the conclusion of the Norfolk Broads inquest, does that mean it’s case closed. They couldn’t refuse FOI requests on the basis it’s an ongoing investigation. Death certificates?
@NR
Police and Fire Brigade spend our money and are subject to FoIs. Doesn’t seem to be an ongoing investigation now. Coroners are also on the public payroll, but are exempt. Death certs after 6 months. Probate perhaps too. Case not quite closed.
Mastro’s is a bit of strange courtcase.
No one representing the U.S. government attended the hearing, Terrier said. He said the judges were disappointed because they had wanted to get a better understanding of the charges brought against the Mastros in the indictment.
…
Many French are perplexed that criminal charges against the Mastros could arise out of a civil bankruptcy case, Terrier said, “Everyone in France is waiting for a clear view of what they really have to pay back and for what they need to be punished.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2012/11/mastros-testify-in-french-court-hearing.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_seattle+%28Puget+Sound+Business+Journal%29
Grand job Felix
12 Feb, 2013 – 3:13 pm. I’ll check out that other site of yours as well.
Marlin
12 Feb, 2013 – 4:48 pm thanks for adding these interesting similarities to mine. I have to say mine were just off the top of my head and intended to provoke some thought. Do state assassins have preferred modus operani as well as crime syndicates? If so, is this an example and a way in? Perhaps we could develop a computer programme to automatically start flashing whenever it scores more than 555 out of a thousand?
So, any fresh conclusions about whodunnit, and why? Has anyone changed their view on the matter since last I asked? My question is a genuine, not rhetorical, one. The summary of potential culprits (in no particular order) seemed to be:
Israelis?
Iraqis?
Saudis?
Iranians?
French?
British?
Mafia-style criminal gang?
Robbers?
Nutter(s)?
Or some combination of more than one of the above?
Please indicate which of these you think it might have been, or if you think some other party did it, please feel free to say. Thank you, again.
Ref. my earlier point NR
12 Feb, 2013 – 5:52 pm and Felix I have copied the following from Wiki. What I find difficult to understand is how the Coroner came to his decision of “Suicide” in the absence of corroboration (a note or predisposition or medical history or witness etc.) There doesn’t appear to be any but if there was its not been referred to in the press reports. This I think is a legal obligation on him and positive support. In this case he also appears to have ignored the NEGATIVE ones. How often do people tie weights on themselves to assist with a suicide drowning? I could be wrong but I would suggest few. I would say it was much more indicative of an unlawful killing which I think might have been a better verdict or even an “Open” one. Of course if it is held the killer killed himself it has the advantage of effectively ending the case. No further investigation required. Potential perpetrator goes on his merry way with no worries of ever being sought or found.
WIKI: “Standard of proof
In an obiter dictum (legal opinion not forming part of the judgment) in the case of R v West London Coroner, ex parte Gray in 1986, the divisional court stated that the open verdict was, as with the verdicts of unlawful killing and suicide, required to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.[5] However, the fact that a verdict of suicide requires “some evidence that the deceased intended to take his own life” means that open verdicts are often recorded in cases where suicide is suspected but the evidence of intent is lacking. For this reason some studies of suicides have also included those deaths in which open verdicts were recorded.”
Perhaps someone should ask the Norfolk Coroner what evidence was there that the deceased INTENDED to take his own life, that proved “beyond reasonable doubt” that it was indeed “suicide”?
Marlin 12 Feb, 2013 – 4:48 pm
“Tim V *PM: Add another five to your list of similarities between Chevaline and Norfolk cases:
“1. No picture ever released of woman/women: Annette Creegan and daughter – nada, but two photos released of a male, John Didier, very shortly after the events: a head shot and another picture with a male ‘friend”. In Chevaline it was SAH and Akers moving, here it is Didier and friend “cooking.”
“[NR said]I totally missed that parallel. There’s SAH’s “Skiing Club” logo — is that a purposeful messsage too? It’s not the Kandahar ski club either. Looks more like a family club logo – cross-country skiing?”
Addendum: There’s another symmetry – both the SAH and Aked 2fer pic, and the JD and friend pics were sold to the media via an agency. In the case of JD it was HotSpot Media and Gary Aked sold story and one pic to agency below:
http://www.cash4yourstory.co.uk/french-alps-shootings-victim-had-extremist-views-sunday-mirror-newspaper-exclusive-news-story-last-week-story1238.html
They have original text and it may contain lines not used by media. “Gary said: “Saad was a workaholic. We went skiing in Italy once but he took his laptop so he could work.””
“”I just hope the police find the chatrooms and what Saad has been saying and doing on there,” he said.””
We never heard if anyone found the original chat texts.
This was all over the news today: the mystery of who was prisoner X -cleared:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/on-the-web-the-genie-is-out-of-the-bottle.premium-1.503166
Why would israelis go to such length to hide the individual’s identity and treat him so harshly?
A related question; what could Zygler’s crime have been? did he know something about 9/11 and made the mistake of “leaking’ to the wrong person? Bluebird – what do you think – should we add this to your ever-growing little list of mysterious deaths/disappearances? perhaps tied around with the thread you suggest?
one more thing: when we say 9/11 we usually mean the planes flying into buildings. But right around that time, shortly after, in fact, there was the Anthrax case that was not really solved (well, the Justice depart. says it has, but they would say that, wouldn’t they?). No one to date has discovered or pointed a way in which weaponized anthrax could have been. Bruce Ivins has conveniently committed suicide not unlike the reddit genius guy (name suddenly escaped me) and now prisoner ‘x’. To which we can add Gareth Williams and john Didier and a few others who were mentioned here before. what’s up with all the suicides?
And did someone snick the weaponized Anthrax into the US and on whose authority? I can’t believe that even Cheney, who no doubt authorized the operation or was cognizant of it – would get away with involving a US lab in an act that results in the death of US citizens. Clearly it wasn’t Bruce who cooked it as he had no access to the extremely specialized needed equipment (that much has been amply proven by the investigative reports from the university – again forgot which. I have the link somewhere, if someone needs it). Some people know some things somewhere. And there may be more than a few. Eventually some will talk or threaten to.
Here’s a hard-to-understand story from 2008 about how a Forbes.com editor used Wikipedia edits to discredit a whistle-blower by painting him as a nutter, as thus delayed revelations of a massive stock market fraud that partly caused the worldwide financial crisis.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/01/wikipedia_and_naked_shorting/
No telling what frauds the media and the elites, including the Wikipedia controllers, are engaged in at any time.
“Suicide should never be presumed, but must always be based on some evidence that the deceased intended to take his own life” (Mathews & Foreman, 1993). The evidence that the coroner seeks to record a suicide verdict must indicate suicidal intent beyond reasonable doubt; when this is not the case, an open (also known as undetermined) or accidental verdict is returned. The inclusion of open verdicts in suicide studies acknowledges the fact that many cases of open verdicts are suicides and that ‘official’ suicide rates per se are underestimates of the real incidence. The Department of Health’s (1999) Saving Lives: Our Healthier Nation includes all open verdicts in with suicides when setting national targets for suicide reduction.
Suhayl Saadi, 8:57 PM:
there has been quite a bit about the agencies involved recently on this thread. You may want to go to the preceding page and look at mine and Tim V’s posts as that’s exactly what was speculated about.
In truth, the one thing we are pretty clear about is the profile of the killers’ agency, and the fact that it isn’t an Arabic or a certain persian country. remember – it’s all about the cover-up and about who could have had enough clout to force both british and french agencies into silence in the case of the first, and a completely botched cover-up that makes no sense, in the case of the second.
We have also, over time were able to eliminate with I’d say >99% confidence the “lone nutter” theory. Of all the possible theories that one is tone of the least credible. as for mafia-type involvement, again I can only direct you to our previous posts. You won’t have to scroll up too much – this was put out in the past 4 days, so shouldn’t take more than a few minutes worth of scroll..
Sorry, can’t be too lazy Suhayl….Saad and family’s killers sure weren’t. Only the gullible public is….and you don’t want to be lumped with them, right?
Marlin 10:37PM – oops – should have been “sneak” in last par. kind of glaring – where do I get these weird spelling errors? me need to think this through….
NR
You won’t find any chatroom text because it was removed …
Just like his facebook page was removed before he died. He was busy on facebook, but it was removed as soon as his name was given to media. Had you ever tried to remove your own fb page? Do this! It won’t work. There must have been more powerful people who removed that plus all google links on that fb page: NSA!The removal of his fb page alone shows us that there were governments involved. Killed he was perhaps by mobsters, but only under the authorization of a government.
Marlin;
Good that you mentioned Anthrax.
I am still puzzled about the random likelyhood that one of the few dead Anthrax victims
post 9/11 was a retired female CIA agent who lived in Sandy Hook, CT.
What are the chances for such a coincidence?
1: 100.000.000.000 ?