The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
I hadnt seen the original Express photo, when I saw the latest one I thought without hesitation that it was a bike laying on the ground.
Here are some google images of rolls of Police tape:-
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1091&bih=606&q=roll+of+police+tape&oq=roll+of+police+tape&gs_l=img.12…2019.8598.0.10617.19.11.0.8.8.0.92.654.11.11.0…0.0.0..1ac.1.17.img.EdkYKtauTsM
I dont see any resembling bicycles.
In “that” carpark there were several vehicles that may have been responsible for those tyre tracks/marks.
There would have been “several” that were/could have been moving “quicker” than normal.
Al Hilli, but we don’t know from where that would be.
The killer(s) if they were in a car/4×4.
Bossy if he entered the scene with urgency. Or left it in panic.
The fire and rescue team(s) entering with urgency.
We also have the characteristics of TWO unladen tow trucks up there. One leaving with the BMW the other leaving still unladen.
The police say, it was Al Hilli’s BMW that made those tracks.
I suspect that comment was made “to hide” a fact that they did not want released….like the identity tag of the 4×4 on the Combe D’Ire “around” the time of the shootings (or did they say shortly before !)
That’s crucial…as Martin would have seen the same car twice.
Twice…on a lonely road…..and didn’t “notice it” the SECOND time ! C’MON !
BlueBird….
What is (or isn’t) revealed by the police is not important.
It isn’t “testimony”, it is merely part of an “ongoing investigation”.
The fact that it is…or isn’t revealed (or later revealed) is important.
1. Martin’s interview stating he didn’t “see” the 4×4 on U.K plates.
2. The tyres marks made by Al Hilli’s BMW.
Poke enough people…and you’ll get a reaction eventually !
If “Fat Bastard” on MTZ is “real” then this statement may be part of the answer we are looking for.
“Saad had the money in the swiss account frozen when he found out about it”.
6-30-2013 (02.47.16)
If that statement is indeed “true”, then there is a new angle that’s been “touched on”, but missed.
Who funded that bank account….and why ?
I’m not convinced it was sa’ad.
And I’m not convinced it was “old money”.
Back to the topic of timber theft for a moment. The illegal harvesting of trees is very profitable, enough to motivate forestry officials and well-known companies with legitimate business operations to get involved, elsewhere in the world:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/03/06/the-politics-of-timber-theft/
Forestry officials at the highest levels have been lured into corruption by the prospect of big money, according to the article.
@Mochyn69: This kind of people, that’s who:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_tourism
Uh, Mochyn69, even Saad al-Hilli’s self-proclaimed friend admits to wanting to do a bit of dark tourism, to Centralia, in an entry on March 10, 2013:
https://twitter.com/@shreen_ayob
She was the one who wrote this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/shreen-ayob/alps-shootings-lazy-journalism-in-chevaline-case_b_1894806.html
It’s kind of ironic, considering her harsh criticism of others she describes as “armchair detectives” in the al-Hilli case. Armchair detectives don’t actually visit sites of tragedy. Maybe visiting sites of old tragedies for some gore-mongering is okay, but discussing recent tragedies which involve unsolved murders, without actually visiting said site, is not?
Did we ever discuss the “creepy, abandoned mental asylum” in Surrey, called “West Park”? It’s also mentioned in the twitter account above, whose author used some “streetview (dark) tourism”. I’d never heard of it, but this says it was mostly closed in 2003:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Park_Hospital,_Epsom
It’s apparently popular with those who have a penchant for a bit of dark tourism and urban exploring.
About Shreen Ayob:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shreen-ayob/
One Kurd’s view of Israel, for background:
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2011/10/state5476.htm
Tim V @ 29 Jun, 2013 – 12:45 am
+
straw44berry @ 30 Jun, 2013 – 9:17 am
… I thought without hesitation that it was a bike laying on the ground. …
+
@others who think there is a bike in that photo
Questions:
1) Have you ever seen a bike with its wheels that close together?
2) Can you see a triangle made by the frame tubes?
3) Have you ever seen a bike with white tyres?
Maybe I’m looking at the wrong bit of the photo, but I do not see a bike – just two circular shapes close together and one straight “tube” shape, all of which appear to be white. I can offer no explanation as to what it is, except the thought occurs to me that it might be some equipment from the tow truck.
Bleb, I have to confess to not knowing bikes or even being able to ride one but I didnt consider it could be anything else.
bikes with white tyres?
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1091&bih=606&q=bicycle+white+tires&oq=BICYCLE+WHITE&gs_l=img.1.4.0l5j0i5l2j0i24l3.2111.7049.0.9915.13.10.0.3.3.0.97.638.10.10.0…0.0.0..1ac.1.17.img.KF4zC9b6j2o
I see your view that ‘it can’t be a bike’ but if the obvious wheel shape is the back wheel and the handlebars are turned the front wheel wouldnt be seen as a complete circle and not reflecting light in the same way.
Has anyone got a tool for tidying up photos?
I have CTRL + ‘d until I’m blue in the face but still think bike.
Can someone that can post on MZT (I have tried to twice but no joy) please ask FatBastard if Saad and Iqbal were happily married with Zeena and Zainab 100% resident at Oaken Lane, Claygate. The postman couldnt recall ever seeing Iqbal and didnt mention the girls. Wouldnt they be the age where they want to take the post from him? I dont see enough toys in the garden for them to be living there all the time and yet the back garden is quite messy, so you would expect more toys, wouldnt you?
Thanks
Could this be the bike?
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/multimedia/dynamic/00317/STN1307ALP_317814k.jpg
Shame there isnt more of the bike in view.
I found a better photo:-
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/13/article-2261692-14FFAC69000005DC-521_306x423.jpg
No white tyres though.
How do I post… Like Straw’s post ?
As in “the postman question”. I don’t rely want to get into the “wrangles” of there. It is an important question.
I/m willing to give it a try. Lets see.
So here is dead…lets see who his “FB” is the
In “londonshire” next week. With driver…so lets see. Lets call this guys bluff.
@straw – okay I’ll concede that you can get all white bikes. I’ll also admit I have zero expertise in interpreting air photos. But I still need convincing that that is a bike.
The two photo you link, showing a guy on a red and black bike – is this reported (by the Sunday Times / Daily Mail) to be Sylvian Mollier? I always thought there were meant to be no published photos of him?
Marlin
30 Jun, 2013 – 8:55 am part of the reason for entering the debate on MZT was to inject a bit of healthy scepticism. I think it might have livened things up a bit!! Max says he was led astray by the Le Monde (for which read government) interpretation of events. He’s now returned to an opinion he held originally he says – that there was a suv there. “Fat Bastard” must be the most important there if as he says he’s a long-term friend of the family. I have to say I have found some of his responses rather intriguing. Then we have contributors who appear fully signed up government apologists which is all well and good, but I have to say unqualified support I am wary of for rather obvious reasons. The new phenomenon where every time i sign off windows tells me not to unplug until it has done an update “1 of 1” has rather spooked me. Since we learned of Crystal, GCHQ, advanced spy ware and escaped virus which caused all the Iranian cyclone break-downs, it doesn’t take a great leap of imagination to believe all us trouble makers are being copied. However despite the fact that it would be impossible to get a cigarette paper between GCHQ and the NRA, I can’t help feeling, like you, we are getting a spot of help from some quarter or other. In “spookland” we have “officers”, “assets” and the heavy guys, often sub-contracted, distanced, both criminal and military selected special forces. Without being too specific, I think we have examples of all of them at Chevaline.
Bleb
1 Jul, 2013 – 12:17 am I think you’ll find that is “our very own” WBM!
We are led to belie WBM’s bike was an off roader at Chevaline. The one on low loader is a racer. (width of tyres) he “got lost on a mountain trail on a $4000 racer?
Tim V, I understand you being spooked by that Windows message. I would be too – though chances are not small that whenever we go to the news article and/or download a photo that we acquire a little “gift” with it. If I were ‘them” and I saw your analysis over time, I would ‘flag” you too (that’s a compliment, BTW). For what it’s worth, I believe you are doing a great service to the quest for truth, and hope you won’t get too spooked. Just beware if a job offer comes your way seemingly out of nowhere….and be sure to check who is looking at your LinkedIn profile every few days (assuming you have one…).
The good news? if ‘they’ need to scoop up a session and it’s taking them that long, leaving little tale tell sign then we haven’t gone over the cliff yet.
Oh, and don’t get too exasperated – it’s not easy for people to abandon a favorite theory….which is why I am impressed by Max.
Tim – ah WBM, thanks.
James
30 Jun, 2013 – 11:29 am it’s one thing for the police to with-hold information (in fact it can be excusable) but quite another to knowingly and intentionally to put out false or misleading information. It goes to the root of official credibility. However I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they adopted your explanation when they eventually withdraw the suggestion that those were Hilli’s tyre marks. Oh of course after all, it was in those immortal “Blackadder” words “a cunning plan” all along.
I’m with you Marlin
30 Jun, 2013 – 9:12 am. Apologies for mine. Just off the top of my head. I was just trying to accommodate that new bicycle location (if it is) I’m just reading Gordon Corera’s book on MI6 where he refers to spys/assets and their motivation. Money comes first, followed by disillusionment or grudge, followed by entrapment. My personal gut feeling for what its worth? SM 1 and 2. SAH a form of 3. WBM a long standing officer or asset. Any thoughts?
Apart from anything else, the killing would send out a very strong message to anyone in Cezus/Areva thinking of transferring secrets for money don’t you think?
Thanks for your support Marlin
1 Jul, 2013 – 1:02 am
I shall always wear it.
(Sorry to repeat – its just one of my stock sayings)
Seriously though I value your insight, contributions and empathy. Thanks.
This is a struggle for decency and eventually someone may come clean. Is there another “Neigel” out there I wonder?
NP
Bleb
1 Jul, 2013 – 1:22 am.
Bleb
I agree with you. I cannot confirm a bike either. This item looks like an illusion or rather like a “i wish to see”. Also this photo must have been taken DAYS after the event (watch the pickup car?). Whatever might have had been there, it was already removed or picked up.
Neither SM nor Martin nor SAH with family had been there to view the scenic landscape. I am convinced of that by logic. The track up to Col d’Ire is steep and tricky and it requires some kind of fitness. There was a 74 years old woman and a 4 years old child in that car. If Saad ever considered taking a walk from there, he would have left Zeena and Suhaila in Doussard before going for a walk with Iqbal and Zainab. I am just thinking logic.
And then, why would a killer know that they would drive up to that god damned parking lot in the middle of nowhere? OK, he could have followed them from Geneve. However, he could not have known that they would go there. What if they would have gone back to camping? Would he have waited for another chance then? I am not convinced about that theory either. It just does not logically fit.
So then, the only motive was a pre arranged meeting. We dont know about what kind of meeting there was and why. However, time and place was pre arranged and Saad was early (therefore the stop over in Doussard).
SM and Martin would not go up that bumpy road if they were no hikers or mountain bikers. They would destroy their expensive bikes on such a road. There are a thousand other and better roads in that area for climbing with a bike. Particularly going downhill back would destroy the bike. SM was there deliberately at a pre arranged time and so was Martin.
The one way road was locked by the “builders truck” at a pre arranged time, too.
Lets just do some logic and the facts are getting much clearer.
That place is NOT for old people and neither is it made for 4 years old. No play ground, no scenic view at the parking lot, a very steep and bumpy road for walking further up and nothing to see but trees for the next 4 kilometers, and then getting even steeper and more bumpy.
And the cyclists? OK if they were extreme mountain bikers. Totally strange and not logic at all if they were triathletes or road cyclists. They would never be there as they knew the roads in Doussard and Martinet. Hence the hint of Mr. Schutz that SM took the wrong road to make the locals believe that story that he accidentally arrived at that god damned place.. What kind of BS is that? SM was no tourist. He grew up there.
And finally, why searching for the killers? There were enough people there whom we know, at this god damned place, who could handle a gun. And none of them was there accidentally. None!
“@ James Im afraid i don’t have air-side clearance at Northolt so you will have to talk to Surrey and Sussex High command first as they have asked me not to talk to you sorry” .
– See more at: http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-shooting-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-part-7/comment-page-62/#comment-13462
Well there ya go !
Knowing that we do actaually leave airports…and do actually sleep in hotels….sometime even the ones we’re suppose to be in !
Guess nothing was going to come from “fat bastard” after all.
Getting back to what was shortly discussed many months ago.
Do you remember the hunter “sylvain mollier”?
He had an email address there ([email protected]). When somebody searched google for that email, he found that (and you do still get that):
Site de Mandeure (Pays de Montbéliard) – Chasseurs à l’Arc de…
http://www.acafc.net/…/Site_de_Mandeure_Pay…Mail : [email protected] undefined essai undefined. Plus. Email; Lien; Imprimer. Partager l’article ! Site de Mandeure …
This is the link to a private metallurgy page run by Abdelaziz Addad.
http://aciers.free.fr/index.php/2010/06/page/2/
Abdelaziz Addad:
fr.linkedin.com/pub/addad-abdelaziz/3a/54b/8aa/
He has a brother who is an aircraft instructor in the UAE. james, we need your digging here!).
ae.linkedin.com/pub/mohamed-addad/22/b15/916
So it looks as if the hunter mollier was actually in the metallurgy business. And of course, a hunter could handle a gun.
It is a lot of metallurgy/airplane industry in those finds. I am not sure about why we did debunk the hunter’s metallurgy link several months ago? It was all up in MTZ, here and on icke.
I believe that it would be worth re-investigating that hunter link.