The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Well found Marlin
11 Jul, 2013 – 5:32 am. This was on the 7th, two days after the event, when also you notice SM passes WBM at the top of the climb. As time passes this progressively slips down the hill until it’s actually at the other end, just outside Chevaline. Remarkable! I am sure it had nothing to do with us explaining the consequences of them being only minutes apart as they arrived at Martinet. Of course not – perish the thought.
Max, alas, the ‘gift’ won’t open – 403 error message. You know what they say about cats and curiosity….
Any way to fix?
Tx, Marlin
http://www.192.com/people/search/?sk=6085052e-8920-4af5-a30d-a05842453bd8&location=Claygate&looking_for=Hilli
I have pointed out until I am blue in the face the nonsense over bullets and wounds. You may not be able to identify a murderer who has fled the scene; you may not be able to expose the motive; you might even have difficulty specifying the weapon; but one thing you can be damn sure about (if you can count to 25) is how many casings were found and where, how many bullets were found and where, how many shot injuries there were, to whom and where. This is basic policing and basic forensic science.
Of course there are lots of other things you can discover but we will let that ride.
Even recently in Lars’ much promoted summary, he was stating that the occupants of the car were shot only twice in the head. I like everyone else not party to the investigation have no idea how many shots were fired and how many injuries were received. But EM and the police DO know. They may have an excuse for not telling us. They have no excuse to keep changing the story.
So back to your contemporaneous report Marlin. “Faces too badly damaged for identification purposes”. That can only be explained by anterior/posterior shot, not a lateral shot to the head. This conflicts with PD/B’s evidence of the “two Euro hole” in the side of SAH’s head. In any event has no one heard of fingerprints and other unique distinguishing features?
We all know about the 15 increasing to 25 decreasing to 21 not to mention the confusion over where they were found and the unconvincing explanations why. Then there was EM’s categoric statement that “three out of four were shot in the head”. SM’s appeared to change by the hour. Was it 5 was it 7 or was it up to seven? He was shot standing up. He was shot on the ground. He was shot first. He was shot last. EM said he thought this was rubbish. SAH was shot in the back. He was shot in the head. Was ZAH shot or wasn’t she? Was this aa aimed shot or an stray?
MZT’s puts all this confusion down to the French judicial process requirement to keep it secret. However this can’t explain wrong information being put out can it?
Sloppy … here you go with a ‘public’ version;) http://deadzone61.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/112636787_fra_333662y_proc.jpg
* “Was this AN aimed shot or A stray?”
Max (if you are there (or here!)) I’d like to support Marlin’s comments at
(11 Jul, 2013 – 7:03 pm) c
she’s so much more tactful than me. If I have a go at a theory it’s not personal in any way, and I always enjoyed your multiple attempts at making the storyline fit the facts as we have been told them. Trouble is we are not in a position to know absolutely what is true and what is false so we can only examine what we are told for internal consistency and here it is found wanting. It was the 3.48 call that set me off and in a way kept me going because it has never been explained satisfactorily. Since then so many ambiguities have appeared it has provided material for endless speculation – dreams even it seems! So the sum of all this is we need all cerebral power available including yours, so please contribute here as often as you are able. Who knows you may come up with Marlin’s “key” lol.
What are you trying to suggest “Fat Bastard
11 Jul, 2013 – 11:40 pm”? Not a false flag I hope?!!!!!!
If you look at the metadata for the photo Max has linked to you will see:
source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk
What I meant to include in that “Tim V
11 Jul, 2013 – 11:57 pm” was that the current reported opinion seems to be all the victims were shot at least three (3) times including twice to the head in every case excluding the girls. This would give us 16 body shots which is remarkably close to the original “15”. If Zainab was shot deliberately, which I somehow doubt or she would surely have lost her life, its at least 16. If any of the car occupants were shot more than three times we have to add that number. So that leaves only 9 max that missed which is remarkably close to the ten that were discovered next day. However now the 25 has dropped to 21 we have only five OR LESS that missed a human target. This is remarkably accurate shooting considering three were moving targets and 2 + 1 were inside the car. Given the unreliability referred to above it is not beyond the realms of possibility there were more than have been admitted to. In any event even on the worst example 15 body shots out of 25 in such a dynamic situation could not possibly support EM’s contention of random firing by an untrained person. Why did he want to promote that one? Surely there are some ex SAS people who would like to tell us if they thought this was reasonable in the circumstances or not?
Personally I think this is completely off topic but I know some have speculated on Ben Zygier in the past (I can’t remember why!) so you might be interested in this:
“Second secret prisoner”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/israel-admits-second-secret-prisoner
Oh and on a personal note, you may be interested to learn that a few days ago I stopped getting the “update 1 of 1” prompt every time I turned off. Then today the message was “updates 1 of 16” which it duly did. If its doing it to me it must be doing it with everyone with “Windows 7” mustn’t. If its just to me I’m PARANOID!
Also a belated get well soon to Craig as well and thanks for letting us use your room. Where would we be without it?
re. Bleb
12 Jul, 2013 – 1:12 am It has been shown beyond doubt that Israeli Defence Forces regularly and routinely torture Palestinian detainees whilst in custody and that the judicial system legitimises it. These two cases are different however as both were Mossad or ex-Mossad officers. Israel may appear marginally better than most of its neighbours but that’s only because of the abominable state of human rights in those countries. The state itself has pursued a policy of conquest and land theft since its inception, and as the USA “aircraft carrier” in the Middle East is immune to all attempts to get it to modify its policy.
Grateful if you wud spell out the implications a bit more Bleb
12 Jul, 2013 – 1:05 am. I only got a map with two Claygates.
@Bleb 1:12 AM a potential connection was discussed on these pages – mostly carried on through Tim V and myself, as we are the ones who believe that there is a battle of sorts going on between intelligence agencies. According to this scenario, the ben Ziegler affair was “outed” by the Australian ABC and when we worked out backward how long the documentary may have taken to research and shoot (especially shoot since the reporter Jason Koutsoukis already had much of the information from before), it came pretty close to September 2012. Since we postulated that the british agencies were pretty upset over something that went off script at Chevaline, what better way to deliver a shot across the bow than to unfurly their Australian ASIO allies (hope you don’t mind Tim V that I use “we” as we agreed on most details on this case) ? especially as ASIO appears to have been seething all this time, quite on their own, for any number of reasons – the most likely of which is that they got silenced due to the huge jewish establishment influence in Australia.
The fact is ASIO was treated shabbily by the israeli Mossad, and practically tossed aside by the political realities in Australia. In fact, chances are very high that the materialization of Rudd in israel the day ASFTER the so-called suicide of Ben Zygier 9 a suicide in name mostly) could n ot have possibly been a coincidence. he left not two days afterwards. It makes sense that some things were done to grease the wheels and whatever it was, back in 2010, the ASIO was none too happy with.
I know this sounds convoluted, But frankly, once one admits the possibility that there was a double-cross at Chevaline, with the brits left “holding the bag”, so to speak, any number of the strange conflicting disclosure patterns fall into place.
Personally i don’t believe there is any other way to explain the twilight Zone aspects of the aftermath of Chevaline. Tim V above mentioned a some of the ways in which facts got massaged and sometimes changed outright over the past 10 months. tone can speak of the “fog of investigation” all one wants, but the lack of clarity, the contradictory statements and conflicting behaviors on the two sides of the channel are truly unusual. personally i don’t think that accounts that are “lost in translation” or even outright incompetence by the french investigating team explain the peculiar divergences we have seen. One or two things can get “lost in translation” but 10 of them? and incompetence can carry us so far also.
Bleb, one time not long ago, I promised to post a complete time line of crucial events in 2010. I provided only a partial one and did not deliver on the full one because the discussion moved to other places, I had some serious demands on my time lasting a few months and now i realize, it will take time to copyright my very special timeline. Eventually, I am convinced there will be reason to go back and look at late 2009,- early 2011 and then would be a good time to share.
Tim V (12/7/13 1.15 am)
Updates…..
On 10/7/13 I had 16 updates for Windows 7 when trying to shut down my laptop for the night, so you have no need to worry.
Barrett Brown, Aaron Swartz, Hastings …. and … Saad al Hilli?
Note the date! Timely coincidence? Note the same pre-history as Saad’s. When did Saad become afraid of something?
Quote: In September 2012, a troupe of armed agents surged into Brown’s apartment in Dallas, Texas, and handcuffed him face down on the floor. He has been in prison ever since.
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13765
@Marlin
“james – problem with the postman – he didn’t ring twice!
If he had, perhaps iqbal would materialize”.
OR had post at all ?
Was Fat Bastard’s link showing me the “elc reg” for Clagate, Surrey.
I’m not sure.
BUT it was “the postie” who was surprised on his round that day.
EVERYBODY else had time to let it “sink in”….and have a story ready.
And the man that “rants in chatrooms” ! With a Jewish accountant ?
Not “quite” getting Gary’s story.
So the “contra” information began. The battle between “what he (allegedly) said” and “what he (actually) did”.
Re my link above
Those are the leaked files that were publushed. Lots about Iran and Iran’s nuclear secrets, lots about Iraq, Lebanon, North Africa..
http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/
That is the history of the data hack from Stratfor Global Intelligence:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratfor
As i had said, in a time setting a connection makes sense. And we had “5 powerful computers” in Saad’s garage.
http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/210098_insight-iraq-tasking-results-on-iraqi-intel-security-me1444.html
This is only one of the thousands of leaked stratfor emails. It’ll take a lot of time going through all those emails however, it could be possible to find more clues about the al hillis.
Tim V @ 12 Jul, 2013 – 1:39 am
Grateful if you wud spell out the implications a bit more Bleb
12 Jul, 2013 – 1:05 am. I only got a map with two Claygates.
Sorry Tim, I don’t understand. It was FB who posted the link to 192.com
If you mean my post referring to the photo linked by Max, then it was to show that the (new?) photo came via thetimes.co.uk and not some new source (I’m afraid I do tend to look gift horses in the mouth / beware Greeks with gifts etc etc)
A CAD designer at SSTL. I can buy that.
No access to Top Secret information. I can buy that to.
So where did his wife train ? Dubai ?
How was that funded. Where was it done.
Why not in the U.K. (a better recognized training route).
But it wasn’t as she had to do a “conversion”.
So where ? Pre DHCC days (Dubai Healthcare City) where ?
Which just don’t know anything. And no one is saying anything.
Thanks Straw44berry
12 Jul, 2013 – 8:22 am that’s reassuring, unless …. (LOL)
Bluebird
12 Jul, 2013 – 10:16 am and Marlin, I’m convinced that Chevaline has international implications and should be viewed in that light. If there are international connections you are the person to identify them BB with your forensic computer research skills. What I would suggest is that January 2010 would be as good a place to start as any. It pre-dates the Mossad Dubai operation and Zygier’s arrest. What we need is the time line, suspicious events (usually deaths, disappearances, arrests or military-type) and connections where known.
Incidentally regarding the recently announced death of Alan Whicker reminds me of the photo of him as a press man taking notes at Kim Philby’s flat in 1955, when the latter denied being the “Third Man”.
@Bleb,
I didn’t say it was ‘new’ … it was a ‘gift’ as in, that I did add a ‘y’ and enhanced it. In other words, I ‘uncovered’ a (bigger) picture from ttcu (toying with the ‘if b what c’ puzzle, a puzzle which iirc nobody else came up with) and ‘dusted it off’ and presented it to you. I think that can go as a ‘gift’ … but perhaps not. If even a ‘gift’ isn’t met with the expected response, perhaps better to stop ‘gifting’. Perhaps the water is still too cold for me;)
Max
Cheers for that. It gives a clearer view of the “unseen” side.
Thanks and a great job.
The Max “clear pic” is amazing.
I can see FOUR immediate “questions” it may pose answers to.
I said it once…and I’ll say it again. Great job Max. Great job indeed.
@guys.
It’s a damn gift that. FOUR !
The “tow trucks” blue cover.
The Roof rail “mark” which clearly ISN’T a reflection.
Blood stains
….and “amazingly” the traction of the driver side rear wheel, not the “slipping” pax side rear wheel. (that’ll drag a car with 3.0 “BMW” Litres strong, I am quite sure).
Some news from 1963-1964 has leaked out:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-nuclear-weapons-program-israels-quest-for-yellowcake-the-secret-argentine-israeli-connection-1963-1966/5341305
So, M. Maillaud’s prediction of the length of time that will pass in order to make progress in the Chevaline investigation could be a bit on the conservative side, if there are international implications.
@James post on 12 Jul, 2013 – 4:55 pm
James – as you say bloodstains – especially on and below the drivers headrest. SAH could, as you said previously, “have been hard up against the door”.