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glenn_nl
Glenn, I do accept that on a personal/local level, if it can be economically justified, a mix of Solar, Battery and being connected to the National Grid is a reasonable idea.
Some of my family members and some of my friends have paid a lot of money for this stuff.
I think it mainly helps people with money to feel good about themselves, like buying a Tesla makes well off people feel good about themselves, they can think they are doing their bit to save the World.Let us guess it could cost a home owner £7,000 to install this stuff.
Let us say they spend £50,000 on an EV, to help use their “free” Electricity.
Let us say they “save £500” each on Electricity they did not have to buy from the National Grid.
In fifteen years, if nothing has gone wrong the Solar/Battery set up will have just paid for itself, if their EV is still going it will be worthless.Commercially the expected time frame for a Solar installation in Britain is fifteen years.
Of course a home owner, might want 30 years from their paid for system, just remember that any system is only at its most effective when it is new.
As systems age and get slightly more degraded, less sunshine will be converted into useable Electricity.
Also bare in mind in an older house, before the installation of the Solar system, you are first advised to have a new roof.
A roof is expected to last 50 years, however, that is not with people clambering about on that roof.
I would imagine that if you had a fairly new property ( 0-15 years) that you could safely have a Solar system fitted.
When it is time to replace that Solar System, say after twenty to thirty years, you would probably be best to also have your roof replaced.
So, I am saying, you probably would find that the life time of your roof would be shortened.Michael. Internal combustion engine cars are not free, at least not last time I looked. Strangely, neither is the petrol or diesel that goes into them to make them go. £400 a month if you are lucky. Annoyingly, you can’t reuse the fuel because you BURNED it. It’s gone after a single use.
A combi boiler ain’t cheap either and neither is the installation.
I think your economics needs a revision to factor in the difference in costs.
Strangely, I have a feeling you won’t bother.ET: I’d guarantee MN won’t bother. That’s why nobody bothers discussing anything with him anymore.
You might be interested, though… generating a couple of pounds worth of electricity a day in the middle of winter, over five times that in summer. Between £1K – £1.5K a year (excess is sold to the grid). It will take about 7 years to recover the outlay, and if electricity prices rise in the meantime, less than that.
It also saves gas, by using electricity generated to power an immersion heater instead of using a gas boiler.
The batteries, inverter and panels are guaranteed for 20 years.
MN – and his sources/stooges from the fossil fuel industry – will tell you none of this. Only negatives, and they are all either flat out lies or half truths.
Far from Norton’s snide comment about it only being “to help people with money feel good about themselves”, it’s at least as good an investment as any other, such as putting a similar amount into an ISA, or a pension contribution.
And that’s not even mentioning the environmental benefits.
Incidentally, far from buying a £50K Swasticar, I have a diesel car well into its second decade. Highly reliable, very efficient (60+mpg urban), very cost effective – since it only does 2000-3000 miles/year. Most of my mileage is done by bicycle /walking. It would make no sense to scrap an efficient car doing low annual mileage, and commission an electric car to replace it, either economically or environmentally.
If MN wanted to discuss any of this, that would be welcomed. Instead, we get what looks like low quality AI summaries of press statements issued by the fossil fuel industry and their innumerous stooges, dupes and useful idiots.
glenn_nl,
Glenn, nothing I just wrote is from the internet.
For quite some years I was a carpenter and hand built complex roof structures and mended other roof structures.
I live in a seventy five year old house, some twenty five years ago, my house needed a new roof.
A relative, living in a seventy year old house decided she wanted Solar and battery pack, she was advised by the Solar people to first have her roof renewed, because it was more than fifty years old.
A friend of mine has recently been trying to sell his mother’s house that was ninety years old, all potential buyers became aware, that they would have to replace the roof.
A bridge is or should be designed to last 200 years.
A roof is designed to last fifty years.
You might get a hundred years out of your roof but that will be a roof, that nobody has been clambering about on.I believe your contribution above is known as the Motte and Bailey defence, or logical fallacy. Abandon all your more dubious assertions, and retreat to safe ground.
Nobody was suggesting that rotten, ancient and/or weak roofs were ideal places to install solar panels.
On the other hand, you were asserting, MN, that solar panels were useless because
– They don’t work at night
– The UK is at too high a lattitude
– They are expensive and cannot pay for themselves
– Half the time it’s winter
– Waste of taxpayer moneyAnd so on. They only serve to make wealthy people think they’re doing something useful, you say, like helping combat climate change which you assert (without evidence) is a hoax/myth anyway.
Like everything else you assert, it’s green policies baaaaad. Fossil fuel energy goooood! No evidence. No discussion. Just simplistic assertions over, and over and over.
You also say you thought all this through yourself, despite showing no evidence, while all your positions just happen to align precisely with fossil fuel misinformation campaigns.
glenn_nl
Glenn, if the Labour Administration go with Ed Milliband and effectively shut down the U.K. North Sea, we will still need Hydrocarbons. That will mean we will need to import more Hydrocarbons, like LNG.
This will probably increase our Carbon footprint by something like 50%.Joined-Up-thinking anyone.
Ah, so you simply change the subject.
Before long, you’ll circle back to asserting that solar panels are useless again.
It’s utterly pointless trying to discuss anything with you.
glenn_nl
Glenn, I am not saying Solar is useless.
It has a place, it might have a small part of the U.K. Grid.
However, I think that part will be miniscule.
As I have said we are nearer the top of the World than we are to the Equator.
So the power of the sun, even at lunchtime will be modest.
They do not work at night.
The public are being squeezed to fun this nonsense, thus helping to make us much less effective as a manufacturing country because we pay through the nose for Grid Electricity.
It is not rocket stuff Glenn.
More expensive energy means it prices us out of many markets, that puts more people out of work, which increases how much money the government have to borrow, which then makes them squeeze people even more, a circle of trouble then ensues. Cheaper Energy gives you the chance to do well, expensive Energy makes that trick rather difficult.The Industrial Revolution has been ongoing for almost 300 years, yet the World has only got a tiny bit hotter.
Sea level has only increased a tiny amount.
Where is the catastrophe Glenn?“yet the World has only got a tiny bit hotter………..”
“The number of days with temperatures 5°C above the 1961-1990 average has doubled for the most recent decade 2015-2024 compared to 1961-1990. For 8°C above average the number has trebled and for 10°C it has quadrupled. This shows how the hottest days we experience in the UK have increased in frequency dramatically in just a few decades.”
“At the same time, the frequency of the coldest nights we experience has also dropped dramatically.”“Sea level has only increased a tiny amount………..”
“Since 1901, the sea level around the UK has risen by about 19.5 cm, with two-thirds of this rise happening in just over the last three decades.”
“Over the past 32 years (1993–2024) UK sea level has risen by 13.4 cm.”From The National Oceanography Centre (NOC) and their “State of the UK Climate” report in 2024.
https://noc.ac.uk/news/uk-sea-level-rising-faster-global-average
https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/joc.70010 (link to report)I doubt you’ll be bothered to read through it Michael so you just keep on keeping on believing in your cult and whatever you do, don’t read any actual measurements of the things you continuously get wrong. Keep the faith.
Hello ET, in my world view, the cult is in those who believe in catastrophic warming.
So, maybe the sea level has gone up a foot or so, since the end of The Little Ice Age, so what?
If it had gone up two feet, so what?
The increase in Atmospheric CO2 seems to be a win win for the World.
Never has so much food been grown in the history of the Globe.
Most of this increase is because of more modern agricultural systems being employed but some of it is because of more Carbon dioxide.
The Great Boreal is possibly 15% more massive than it was forty years ago, that will be because of Carbon dioxide.
If the Globe does become a little warmer, that probably means we could burn less Coal of Natural Gas. I do not see a downside to more Carbon dioxide.Hello ET, there will be a massive downside to Net Zero.
Let’s think this through.
I saw a programme this morning, pre-black death, that said because of the Medieval warming period, there was a large increase in food production and a large increase in the human population.
This programme focused on England. Apparently the limiting factor in human wellbeing was wood.
Wood was the main fuel most people used to create heating and the main fuel they used for cooking and the main fuel they used for industrial processes, like making Iron.
Fuel was their limiting factor, not food.
Only about 8% of English forests remained as the increase in population, caused by the increase in warming has resulted in them using more wood.
The solution was to more to coppice management controlled by law.
Move forward to more modern times, the limiting factor for human wellbeing was again fuel, at the start of the Industrial Revolution. We, in England had already sorted the food problem by the four course rotation and Jethro’s horse hoeing husbandry. The Agrarian Revolution was a must has, before the |Industrial Revolution, if people were to leave the land to work in industry, the land had to become more effective in producing food with less human effort.
Britain is blessed with mineral wealth.
One of those minerals is Coal.
Coal became our source of energy.
Human wellbeing took off.
This modern situation was copied in some form in many parts of the Globe.
Human wellbeing needs fuel.
If we are not to use Carbon fuels for any purpose, what will humans use for fuel for their wellbeing?If we are not going to be allowed to use Carbon for any purpose, the Globe will descend into a kind of Hell.
Millions will be put out of work, society will implode, people will stave, wars will happen.
Is this the future you Global Warming Alarmists actually want?The industrial revolution in a nut shell. Turn heat energy into mechanical energy, usually circular or linear motion. Your steam engine was a heat engine, your ICE car is a heat engine, your steam turbine generating electricity is a heat engine as is your nuclear power plant. The actual type of fuel (insert burny thing here) to create that heat is largely irrelevant. I accept that energy density is important as I also accept that currently petrol/diesel/kerosene and natural gas are relatively energy dense and portable. Our world still largely relies on heat engines and/or using heat for chemical reactions.
The energy from the sun created all those fuels. Now, we have the knowledge to directly collect that energy from the sun without having to wait for millions of years to harvest it and turn that energy into mechanical energy or heat energy. Electric motors are far more efficient than heat engines.
We don’t need fuel, we need energy.
Mr.Trump recently stated that a USA goal is to dominate the oil industry and supply. Do you think that is for benign reasons? Any country that is self sufficient in renewable energy removes itself from under that energy control thumb of the USA. Why are you so willing to perpetuate that USA control Michael?“If we are not going to be allowed to use Carbon for any purpose……….”
This is the umpteenth time you have tried to use this rhetorical trick Michael. No one, NO ONE EVER has stated that carbon can’t be used. You know rightly that it’s the greenhouse gases released from burning carbon based fuels that are the problem. Graphite makes up the majority of anodes in lithium ion batteries for instance. You know this, stop being disingenuous.Michael, do yourself a favour and go check out some actual physics and chemistry rather than relying on you own, often uninformed, opinion. Here are a few starter questions for you that are irrefutably based on actually science, you know, physics and chemistry.
Does carbon dioxide absorb and re-emit electro-magnetic radiation. If so how much, how, what’s going on. Same for other greenhouse gases. How much extra energy is retained because of the extra greenhouse gases? (25 billion Hiroshima bombs worth). What happens when I burn a kilogram of diesel/petrol/gas/wood/coal? I am sure your inquiring mind can come up with many more. Do the work Michael and stop relying on your biased opinions.
When the royal family are ousted I think Ed Miliband should run for the new post of president of the Republic of Great Britian (RGB). That would be colourful 😀
We used to be a big producer of Coal, Glass, Steel, Ceramics, Cement and chemicals.
Those are heavy energy dependant industries.
More likely now to be produced in China or India, where they use a lot of cheap labour fueled by Coal.
What state is our U.K. Steel Industry in today?
Has the collapse caused people to be thrown out of work?
Has this caused distress to those families.
Have the governments ( of all kinds) caused the Coal Industry to be wound down in the U.K.
Has this caused people to be thrown out of work?
Repeat as you like.
We have allowed our country to be deindustrialised at least in part for the God of Net Zero.
Yet we most likely still want to be warm in Winter.
We most likely still require Cement and Steel and Chemicals.
The working class are being hollowed out of existence, perhaps that is one of the reasons people are in despair?MN: Kindly don’t bother addressing anything else to me, because I am absolutely done wasting time with your nonsense.
Frankly, I am surprised the mods indulge your taking over part of Craig Murray’s blog as a mouthpiece for parroting right-wing talking points.
Despair, alcoholism, drug taking and suicide. Certainly poorer lives for many in the U.K. since we went down the road of allowing our industries to fall into disuse.
Quote BBC
“It is a catastrophe”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7jxv7p2mxo
“This is a story of lost lives” says Alan MilburnAs we we hurtle down the piste of Net Zero, more and more people will become unemployed, their lives will be wasted.
The problem of turning coal into something useful and not as harmful as coal is one for chemists. Imagine if coal could be converted into a fuel that cars or aeroplanes could use.
But I also think that the UK needs to revive its manufacturing industries, including craft industries. Both of these might help to create jobs and hope for the younger generation.Created by William Valentine Wright in 1860, Wright’s Coal Tar Soap is a British brand of antiseptic soap designed to cleanse the skin thoroughly. It is an orange colour.
For over 150 years, Wright’s Coal Tar Soap was a popular brand of household soap.
By product of making coke.
I am not entirely clear of the chronology, but coal mining, gas making, coke making, clinker building blocks making and steel making, were all linked.Peter Mandelson was the initiator of New Labour.
He was a Labour M.P. and brought into the cabinet by Tony Blair.
The multilayered levels of corruption and the links to Labour M.P. Captain Robert Maxwell are extraordinary.
Bob was born in the eastern part of Slovakia, Solotvyno ,now Ukraine but in those days the newly formed country of Czechoslovakia.
Some have suggested that some Labour members of Parliament were spying for Communist Czechoslovakia.
Captain Bob Maxwell was a friend of Mr. Epstein. captain Bob Maxwell was a friend of Labour M.P. and Paymaster General under Tony Blair, Geoffrey Robinson, while Geoff was Paymaster General under Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson asked Geoffry for a massive loan to buy a house in Nottinghill, in less than twenty four hours, the money was made available.
Neither M.P. made this known in the members interest record.
This is why Peter had to resign from the Blair Cabinet, also Geoffry had to resign from the Blair Cabinet, for the same reason.
Ghislaine Maxwell ( daughter of Captain Bob was the girlfriend of Epstein)
she is now in prison.
Epstein was a friend of Captain Bob Maxwell, a friend of Lord Peter Mandelson, Epstein was also suspected of handing information to the Eastern Block.
Peter Mandelson flew in Oleg Deripaska’s private jet to meet Vlad Putin, in Russia, while Peter was Trade Commissioner for the European Union but he did not tell the E.U. about this visit?It was Gordon Brown who arranged for Peter Mandelson to become a lord.
In the Brown Government, Peter Mandelson was essentially the Deputy Prime minister.
Possible Tony Blair and Gordon Brown will become implicated in the Peter Mandelson revelations, that may come out after Peter’s chat with the Metropolitan Police. Peter Mandelson was arrested today for misconduct in public office.
They are meaning at a time he was working for Gordon Brown.These are the people who think they rule over us, who wish to control almost every aspect of our lives.
Yet their own lives are chaotic.“Possible Tony Blair and Gordon Brown will become implicated in the Peter Mandelson revelations..”
Oh boy I really hope so. And Jack Straw too. And the many, many others.
ET
it turns out Peter Mandelson was the person responsible for suggesting Prince Andrew become U.K. Trade Envoy.
