"Reasons to Believe"

When I find ONE I`ll let you know Craig.

"A draft executive order seen by news agencies sets a 12-month deadline to shut the complex "in view of significant concerns ... both within the United States and internationally"."...

http://tinyurl.com/anxfsc

"sets a 12-month deadline to shut the complex"

Right now would be a better time.

Me thinks the below may NOT be the case...

"I cannot tell you how much emotion I feel that the US will no longer be flying people to Uzbekistan, to be tortured and often buried there. I lost my livelihood trying to stop it."

Time will tell.

Craig I hear these people have been known to tell lies.

Craig - I am glad that you are less sceptical than you were. It saddens me that so many on the far left are already attacking Obama without giving him a chance. Their latent anti-Americanism won't allow them to see beyond their rhetoric. If any of you care to read his books you will see that his story is really remarkable. I would urge you to read the speech he made after the Jeremiah Wright affair (google Jeremiah Wright Obama) - if it doesn't move you to tears there is something worng with you.

Scripted like a Hollywood movie. Who makes them ? Who financed him ?

"Scripted like a Hollywood movie"

"What you see is definitely not what you get"...

http://tinyurl.com/d2ktss

Hmmm...If Obama is keeping Guantanamo and other places open for another 12-months,that makes him a guilty of crimes against humanity.

By NOT bringing Bush and co to justice makes him guilty of crimes against humanity.

I rest my case. Conspiracy theorists, cranks and weirdos. Join planet earth.

"Conspiracy theorists, cranks and weirdos. Join planet earth."

eddie

I bet you practiced saying that in front of the mirror...everyday of your life..lol.

The true measure of the current administration's sincerity will be its response (or lack of response) to subpoenas. The question is less about launching new investigations than it is about furnishing information related to upcoming lawsuits.

George

I started from your position, but can see no reason for such a frenetic start on this if it were not genuine - he could have left it a few weeks without political damage.

David

Thanks, something to look out for.

As George rightly says, time will tell.

George

"I started from your position, but can see no reason for such a frenetic start on this if it were not genuine - he could have left it a few weeks without political damage."

Craig

A case of too many false dawns.

"No commitment to end kangaroo courts -

No commitment that all the Guantanamo prisoners will either be charged or released -

No commitment to end detention without trial

Is this really a new era?"...

http://tinyurl.com/cxfts4

I'm actually with Craig on this. I really, really, hope that Obama will begin a new era of change. I am sceptical though, however, I'd enjoy being proved wrong about my misgivings.

I'd just add that 'all' Obama is doing is pulling the United States back towards the rule of law, and away from blatant criminality, the shredding of international law, and normal civilised standards. It's telling that, after eight years of Bush, such moves are greeted with universal acclaim, which just shows how far from normalcy the United States has strayed under the previous administration!

Not sanctioning torture is seen as progress. Isn't it really a return to the status quo anti? Still, anything that puts a break on the systematic use of torture and our collective slide towards barbarism is to be welcomed.

It's not only that the torture complex degrades us morally and philosophically, it's also plain wrong, counter-productive and doesn't work. People under torture will say almost anything they think one wants to hear, in order to stop the pain, or they defiantly remain silent not matter what one does to them. Though I suppose torture as a form of terror, to frighten the opposition might have an effect, the opposite effect of what one hoped! Violent oppression has a habit of backfiring.

"Violent oppression has a habit of backfiring"

Wonder if Obama will do anything about this ?...

http://tinyurl.com/b67oy7

I concur with Craig on this.

We should be encouraged that Obama has instantly prioritised the issue of Guantanamo Bay, renditions etc. It is only a start, but that he went to work on these matters on Day 1 is very noteworthy.

I also think the 120 days of breathing room to investigate is pretty sensible - not for any political reason, but surely because the Obama team are going to need time to understand fully the kafkaesque system established by the Bush administration before they can go to work dismantling it.

It is, of course, only a start. But I believe very strongly in the principle of "rewarding good behaviour" inasfar as it applies to politicians. And what Obama has already done warrants support - if he backtracks, we can drop this support. But so far, he deserves praise.

I've been listening to what Obama said and reading the text of what he signed. It's interesting, and as I've got to head for the kitchen and start on supper, I'll make this short.

He hasn't actually said that the United States did anything illegal or used torture as an interogation method.

What he said, and signed was an order that underlined that prisoners should be treated in accordance with the US Army Field Manual and the Geneva Conventions relating to the treatment of prisoners. It's somewhat 'fuzzy' because what is 'torture' and what isn't according to the US definition? Bush said last week that the US didn't use torture and he had legal backing for his statement.

Obama has announced that he's going to set up task force which will come with recomendations about what interogation methods one can use, and if they are effective, and whether they are compatible with the Army Field Manual and the Geneva Conventions, and the current US definition of what constitutes torture. When does 'interogation' become 'torture' exactly.

Further, he didn't specifically ban extraordinary rendition to countries that use torture on prisoners. He implied that this was the case, but it was actually in the Presidential Order he signed. This may be splitting hairs somewhat, but we should remember that he is by training a lawyer!

Finally, he didn't actually say that all prisoners held 'illegally' in the various US prisons around the world, in Afghanistan - five to ten thousand, in Iraq - twenty to thirty thousand, would all be released or put on trial.

In fact he mentioned that there were some prisoners that were so dangerous and the evidence against them so sensetive that putting them on trial might prove difficult, leaving the door open to keeping them permanently behind bars. Much will depend on the results and recommendations produced by the task force.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/01/obamas-orders-leave-torture-indefinite.html

"Just cause you got the monkey off your back doesn't mean the circus has left town."

George Carlin (1937–2008)

I'm afraid I don't share your optimism. Hope maybe (since it springs eternal) but, laudable as his post inauguration actions to date are, they are uncontroversial and no more than judged necessary by the elites whose vetting processes put him where he is and whose interests I have no doubt he will faithfully serve. It is his military, foreign and economic policy appointments that depress me no end. And his pronouncements on Israel to date ('Jerusalem undivided must remain the capital of Israel'; 'Israel has the right to defend itself' etc etc) - his fawning pre-election performance in front of AIPAC; everything in fact points to him simply being just a more acceptable, even shrewd choice as the one to continue carrying the torch of the US Imperial project.

Don't know whether you or anyone else here has read Dennis Perrin on the subject, but I heartily recommend his book 'Savage Mules' and his web site at: http://tinyurl.com/d9d768 . The man is damn funny and his latest post addresses precisely this issue.

Maybe he's genuine about Guantanamo, maybe he just does what he's told.

This guy is definitely 'owned' and the people who surround him (see below) do not inspire the slightest confidence. Some are the same criminals who created the systems (derivatives etc) that are currently in danger of crashing our civilisation. Many of the others are Neo-Cons and other bankers' men. Who would trust these people to do anything other than continue the processes that have been accelerating apace for the last decades....i.e. sucking wealth and power evermore away from the poor and putting them into the hands of a filthy rich elite.

How anyone can trust a person who has risen through the system is beyond me. How naive can you be. Read the following article:

The Problem with Obama
Adrian Salbuchi - www.asalbuchi.com.ar January 22, 2009

On 20th January, a major part of America's citizenry celebrated the arrival of Barack Obama as the new president of the United States, with his promise for "Change" and his proposal for "hope instead of fear". The breaking of racial barriers in the land of the Ku Klux Klan, where until the 50's and 60's mixed marriages between blacks and whites were illegal and would land you in jail in Southern states like Alabama, Mississipi, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina and Arkansas (and yet hipocracy and ignorance made millions of Americans feel "outraged" at the 1935 Nazi Nuremberg Racial Laws!), mark a turning point in US history symbolized by the reborn spirit of Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln and the Kennedy's.

America's present joy with its new president is shared by the overwhelming majority of global public opinion, not so much because of the optimism Obama's arrival inspires, but rather because of the relief that Bush's and Cheney's departure gives. Naturally, Obama has a daunting task before him, but he personally has the support of the better part of his people who seem ready to make great sacrifices to overcome the gigantic economic, financial, banking, military, political, diplomatic and social disasters Obama inherits from the Bush Era.

So far, so good.

However, the problem with Obama is not Obama himself, a mostly unknown and inexperienced American politician. The problem with Obama is the very powerful group of key officers and aides that surround the new president, which one is led to believe were not freely chosen by Obama; rather, they seem to have been imposed upon Obama by the New World Order Power Structure that for many decades wields control over the United States, and without whose complacency, agreement and support Barack Obama would probably have never made it outside of the political borders of his home state of Illinois.

As my wise grand mother used to say "a small sip of the glass, and you'll immediately know if the wine is good...". May we therefore give our readers an initial "sip of the glass" which helps to see how the New World Order Power Structures seem to have "filled the glass" from which president Obama has no choice but to drink from. And there are some very worrying indications that, because of this, History may very well end up judging Obama as the American president who led the US to its final twilight - or even some worse Götterdämmerung... This is all in line with our previous analyses on US and world affairs, and the on-going (and daily worsening) global financial collapse (See the English language section in www.asalbuchi.com.ar)

In fact, we can see that the New World Order (NWO) power structure is filling Obama's glass to the brim with three main types of Real Politik power players, who all report to the NWO:

* Militant Zionists (both Jew and Gentile), whom we mark below;

* Members of powerful "Think Tanks" (notably, the CFR - Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg Conference, and the more recently founded Center for American Progress); and

* Former Bill Clinton Administration key officers (notably, in the Economic and Financial areas, because these Obama government officers are the same people - the veritable architects - of the irresponsible financial deregulation of the 90's under the Clinton Administrations that led to the present systemic global financial collapse in the first place).

Axelrod, David - Senior Adviser to President Obama - Political Consultant - journalist for The Chicago Tribune - Militant Zionist

Barnes, Melody - White Hourse Internal Policy Council - Center for American Progress

Biden, Joseph Vice-President - Senator (D-Del. from 1979 to 2008) - Member of the Senate Judiciary Commission - Former chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee - Biden is a Militant Zionist, who told Rabbi Mark S Golun in a TV program on the Israeli Shalom TV network,“I'm a Zionist. You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist"

Browner, Carol - Energy and Climate Affairs Coordinator; Former director of the Environmental Protection Agency during the Bill Clinton Administration.

Brzezinski, Zbigniew - Senior Foreign Policy Advisor - Co-founder with David Rockefeller of the Trilateral Commission - Director, CFR and the Trilateral Commission

Clinton, Hillary Rodham - Secretary of State - Wife of former president Bill Clinton - Former Senator (D- NY)- Militant Zionist - Directly linked to the CFR, Trilateral and Conferencia Bilderberg through her husband

Craig, Gregory B - Advisor - Former Policy Planning Director at the State Department during the Clinton Administration. Bill Clinton's personal lawyer

Daschl, Thomas Andrew - Secretary of Health and Social Services - Former Senator (D-SD) and Majority Leaders . Former director at CitiCorp; Assisted Robert Rubin, (Advisor on Economic Affairs and former Treasury Secretary during the Bill Clinton Administration) - Zionist - Member, CFR and Bilderberg Conference

Emanuel, Rahm - Chief of Staff - Representative (D-Ill) since 2002 - Militant Zionist; Double-nationality: US and Israeli; Volunteer in the defense of Israel during the First Gulf War (1991 - led by former president George HW Bush against Iraq); Suspected of being an intelligence officer for the Israeli Armed Forces; Director at Freddie Mac; Adviser during the Clinton Administration; linked to Wasserstein Perella bank (Trilateral members); his father Benjamin Emanuel was a guerrilla fighter in the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi organization (then led by terrorist Menahem Beguin, later to become Israeli prime minister)

Froman, Michael BG - Adviser - Operates for Robert Rubin; "helped" Obama choose members of his team; Member, CFR

Furman, Jason - Advisor; Senior Adviser to Lawrence Summers (Clinton)- London School of Economics

Gates, Robert M - Secretary of Defense - Republican - Gates was named at the DoD by former president George W Bush in 2006 to replace Donald Rumsfeld, and yet was "confirmed by Obama" - Former director of the CIA under former president George H W Bush (Senior) - Co-chaired foreign policy CFR task force with Zbigniew Brzezinski - Involved in the Iran-Contras Affair under the Reagan-Bush Administration - CFR, Bilderberg

Geithner Timothy F - Secretary of the Treasury - President since 2003 of the Federal Reserva Bank of New York. Prominent architect of the 2008 Banking Bail-out Plans, together with Bernard Bernanke (FED Governor - CFR), Henry Paulson (former Treasury Secretary – CFR) - Also held office during the Bill Clinton Administration, and was involved in the bail-outs of Mexico, Indonesia, Korea, Brazil, Thailand in the nineties, under then Under-Secretary of the Treausury Lawrence Summers - Introduced to Obama by Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers - Former Director of Policy Development and Review Dept at the IMF – International Monetary Fund, from 2001 to 2003 - Former director at Kissinger Associates - Member of the Group of Thirty, his mentors include Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin. Member, CFR, Trilateral, Bilderberg

Holder, Eric - Attorney General - Holder arranged for Bill Clinton to pardon racketeer Marc Rich when he was Janet Reno's Deputy Attorney General (Clinton)

Jones, James LA - Four-Star US Army Officer - National Security Officer (NSA) - Former NATO Forces Commander - Special Envoy to the Middle East for Security Affairs for former president George W Bush - Director at Chevron and Boeing - Zionist - Member of the Institute for International Affairs (founded by Air Force General Brent Scowcroft, former National Security Advisor under George Bush Senior) together with Zbigniew Brzezinski, Bobby Ray Inman (former CIA Director), Henry Kissinger and John Deutch (CIA director under Bill Clinton) - Member, CFR, TC, Bilderberg

Lippert Mark W - National Security Council Chief of Staff - Zionist - CFR

Mitchell, George - Special Envoy to the Middle East - Former officer during the Clinton Administration - Member, CFR

Napolitano, Janet - Secretary of Homeland Security - Former Attorney General for the State of Arizona - Member, CFR, TC

Orszag, Peter R - Director of the Office of Management and Budget - Member of Lawrence Summers' team – Clinton economic advisor.

Panetta, Leon - CIA Director - Former Chief of Staff in the Clinton Administration.

Pfeiffer, Daniel - Deputy Commerce Director - Spokesman for Al Gore (Clinton) - His wife, Sarah Feinberg, is a Senior Assistant to Rahm Emanuel. Zionist

Podesta, John - Senior Adviser to Obama - Presidential adviser under the Clinton Administration - In 2003, he founded the Center for American Progress - Zionist

Power, Samantha - Public Policy Advisor - Wife of Cass Sunstein (director of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs)

Reed, Jack - Senator (D-RI) (CFR)

Rice, Susan -Permanent Representative (Ambassador) to the United Nations (under Obama ranks as cabinet level post) - Member of the National Security Council during the Bill Clinton Administration - Under-Secretary of State for African Affairs during the Clinton Administration - Member, CFR, Brookings Institution; and Aspen Strategy Group, together with CFR and Trilateral members Richard Armitage, Gral. Brent Scowcroft and Madeleine Albright.

Richardson, Bill - Secretary of Commerce (finally not confirmed) - Clintonite - Former officer at Kissinger Associates, CFR

Rubin, Robert - Senior Presidential Advisor - Director at CitiGroup, Former CEO, Goldman Sachs, Founder of the Hamilton Project, former Secretary of the Treasury during the Clinton Administration - Zionist - CFR

Shinseki, Erick - Four-Star US Army General - Secretary for War Veterans' Affairs - CFR

Summers, Lawrence - Chairman, National Economic Council - Former Secretary of the Treasury during the Bill Clinton Administration (1999-2001) - Zionist - Former Economist-in-Chief at the World Bank - Former Dean of Harvard University - Member of Robert Rubin's team - Member, CFR, Trilateral, Bilderberg, Brookings (director).

Sunstein, Cass - Director, Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs - Husband of Samantha Power (Advisor on Public Policies)

Sutphen, Mona - Deputy Chief of Staff - Executive Director, Stonebridge International - Member of the National Security Council (Clinton) - Member, CFR

Volcker Paul - Chairman of Obama's Advisory Board on Economic Recovery - Former Governor of the Federal Reserve Bank (1979 to 1987 – during the Carter and Reagan Administrations) - Zionist - Member of the "Group of Thirty" - President of Rothschild Wolfensohn Company, intimately linked to the Rockefeller family - CFR; North American Director of the Trilateral Commission; Bilderberger.

Vice-President Joe Biden's most strange "prophecy"

A short time before last November's presidential elections, then vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden said that he "guaranteed" that if Obama won the elections, he would be tested by some major international crisis during the first six months of his presidency which would require him getting the support of those who voted for him, as he will have to make "very tough and unpopular decisions".

The US News Network ABC News reported on 20th October 2008, that during a Seattle fundraiser, Biden said: "Mark my words: It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy." "I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right.". See http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/biden-to-suppor.html

Finally, some questions:
* Now, what exactly was now Vice-President of the United States Joe Biden talking about back in October?

* What information did he have/does he have, that allows him to "predict" - even to promise - so forcefully that such a terrible crisis will arise within the first six months of Obama's Administration?

* Is there another 911 in the planning or... even something much worse?

* Will a nuclear artefact be detonated in some "expendable" US city (e.g., maybe Phoenix in far-off and fall-out safe Arizona, or perhaps in Portland on Oregon's Pacific Coast), that will be blamed on Irán, or Al-Qaeda, or Syria, or Hamas, or Hezbollah, or any other real or imaginary foe, as an excuse for a vastly escalated, all-out "Global War on Terrorism"?

* And if such a crisis and attack can be "predicted" by the Joe Biden's, is it because key Insiders know full well that this type of events are actually False-Flag Operations carefully planned, financed, protected and carried out by deeply embedded layers of powerful Intelligence, Operational and "Dirt Tricks" operatives loyal, not to the American National Interest, but to the NWO power structures?

Be it as it may,. we had all better be very, very alert in the weeks and months to come.

Sabretache, I made sure I got hold of a copy of Savage Mules once I knew Barry was the appointed one. Apropos of Eddie's earlier comment, smeering those of us who can't quite enjoin with the Obamarama roadshow as cranks and conspiracy theorists, it looks like Perrin's psychic dildo is working overtime:

'Many online libs fairly jerked off to the speech, overwhelmed by Obama's force and vision, his call to our "better selves," his homilies to God, blood, and soil. Then again, many liberals love state power when a Democrat is in charge, so their arousal was expected, at least by lunatics like me. How long will liberals remain stimulated? I'll rub my psychic dildo and predict that their frenzied self-abuse will never really cease, so long as Obama's in office. Oh, there'll be some lulls when the orgasms aren't as intense. But rest assured that the stroking will continue, lubricated or dry. The psychic dildo's rarely wrong.'

I don't think for one minute there will be any real changes. For surely the criminality of the US is directed by its need to survive. The changes Obama makes will be cosmetic to reinforce the idea that he's bringing change and that he can be trusted. This is a necessity in order to continue the behaviour of the US while keeping its people on its side. If they're not, then there will be immense upheaval which will impede the continuing survival programme of theft, torture, war .....

Obama may have made overtures to closing Guantanamo. Maybe.

However, there are ALREADY 14 Guantanamo-like detention facilities that have been built INSIDE USA -- incl in Texas, South Carolina, California -- whose operation is going to be kept secret, and where torture will still be permitted.

Guantanamo was just the PUBLICALLY-revealed torture camp outside USA, but USA still maintains torture camps in Ukraine, Georgia, and elsewhere.

Wake up everyone. Obama's administration is full of the same military-industry-corporate-Zionist cabal as ever, and reading the background of these appointees is chilling.

I think we should give Obama the benefit of the doubt, even though I find the amount of media attention outside of the USA quite off putting.
Being the father of two such charming daughters and obedient husband of such a capable wife is a good start. I think they will influence his policy decisions in ways people don't expect, making him more compassionate and realistic.

Number of innocent people set free? None.

Number of war criminals prosecuted? None.

Number of denunciations of Israeli war crimes? None.

Number of bombs dropped on Pakistan? More than none.

Prosecutions could be slow going in the best of circumstances, but he has the political capital, not to mention the moral obligation, to denounce Israel.

The Americans have long admitted that 90% of the inmates in their terror jails are innocents kidnapped by bounty hunters and so forth, there's no reason not to release them all immediately. By definition anyone in Guantanamo is there because there's no real evidence against them.

With the bombing of Pakistan he hasn't even limited himself to crimes of omission.

What a bunch of miserable cycnics! Have any of you lot ever been to the USA? If so, you will know that it is a fascinating and diverse country that is far removed from the dismal abstractions you have painted above. Obama has already taken decisive steps to change the Bush doctrine, and we are only on day four of his administration. Cheer up! Incidentally, a report in today's Guardian reveals that we are one of the most miserable nations in Europe. This site is certainly evidence of that.

@ Eddie - what planet is he on and what is Craig on? Their naivete astounds. We have witnessed the previous psychopaths' recent work in Iraq and Afghanistan (did Obama ever protest?) and it is puzzling why Eddie equates our justifiable cynicism of politicians to being 'miserable'. In fact the NEF report has us, the British, as 'bored and tired and less likely to know our neighbours' but rate us as 'the 6th happiest nation'. Why are we less likely to know our neighbours - perhaps because of the distrust of strangers engendered by NuLabour's surveillance society with their anti-terrorist propaganda ably abetted by the media and that includes the BBC. And yes we are very bored and very tired after 11 years of Blair and Brown and yes, also very skint.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7848244.stm

PS Obama's killing rate is already 7.5 deaths per day. Blair (no not that one) his nominee for Director of National Intelligence will not say that waterboarding is torture, etc etc

Mary
If you know of a better country to live in then I suggest you go there, because your negativity and cyncicism will never make this one better. If you don't have Labour you will have Cameron - if that is what you want that is what you will get. There are no other options, however much you and your deluded ilk may fantasise about it.If you can do better then become a politician yourself and stop your onanistic griping from the sidelines.

Mary

You will have to forgive eddie. He is one of those people that goes through life attacking everyone if they disagree with him. I think he goes through life without a partner ?...Such is his sad life he wants to make everyones elses the same.

One is not expecting a dismantling of imperialism from the new US President and the members of his Administration, who, as has been very adequately pointed out in these pages, are all committed imperialists. However, there is a difference b/w the kind of completely malevolent, consistently and industrially illegal militarism of GW Bush's tenure and what is likely to be a 'cleverer' (to quote Obama) modus operandum of advancing the interests of the elites in the USA and indeed transnationally. A large segment of the ruling elite have understood that the tactics of the Bush Adminstration in relation to mass torture were counter-productive to their interests. So, one should be glad indeed that at least some steps appear to have been taken in the right direction whilst also remaining skeptical. There will be looholes and illegalities, so perhaps this represents a return to the pre-Bush era in relation to these, which means it's going to be very far from what progressives might want.

Meanwhile, progressive organisations should keep the pressure on as far as they can in order to achieve an end to the most obvious and monstrous abuses of human rights and prevent further escalations of militarism, i.e. war. It is extremely unlikely than anyone, bar some fall-guy colonel somewhere, will be prosecuted (and then pardoned) for human rights abuses - though that shouldn't stop people trying to expose and bring to book these heinous networks.

However, we will await events relating to Pakistan/ Afghanistan and Palestine/ Israel and I agree that with respect to these two crucial strategic foreign policy areas, the Obama Administration is unlikely to represent a significant improvement on previous US Administrations, for all the reasons related in earlier/ other posts and more. To reiterate, we should not really expect an anti-imperialist in the White House. There are likely to be some issues, however, on which relative progress will be measurable. Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act but obliterated Vietnam. And there we have the rub.

Nonetheless, I do think that these Executive Orders represent progress - they also validate - though it hardly required such validation - that what people like Craig Murray, Andy Worthington, Stephen Gray and many others have been saying/ writing/ shouting all these years and the real sacrifices which many courageous individuals - inside and outside the structures of power - have made on the basis of ethics and principles. This example should urge us all to go further.

Craig,

I would like to invite you to be one of the keynote speakers at The Alternative View event (500+ delegates) to be held at The Thistle Hotel Heathrow over the weekend of 29/30/31st May 2009.

Would you please let me have a contact Email address as craigmurray (at) Mail (dot) ru does not seem to be working.

Kind regards,

Ian R Crane

Ian -

I got your emails but I've been snowed under. Yes I'll come, but can't say which day yet.

Craig

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/did+hamas+use+human+shields+/2909867

See this report on Channel 4 (not often a bastion of impartiality) about Hamas using civilians as human shields and hunting down and executing their political opponents. What a nice bunch of people, and all you deluded fools out on the streets of the UK supporting these fascists. When will you ever learn?

George Dutton - I don't attack people who disagree with me, I just attack idiots like you. Grow up.

Hey Eddie,

It's Nobby from the Zionist Hall of Fame here. Mate, we just wanted to say that your plinth in at the Defenders of All Things Zionist Room is locked in.

Quick question, since I've lost the list, do you do it professionally or are you a volunteer? It doesn't make any difference except that the people who've contributed to the paid shills like to see their name on the plaque. Fair enough, we have to remember our sponsors after all. I'm sure you won't mind either way.

Otherwise, for all your work defending the rightness of burning people alive with white phosphorus, shooting at white flag waving grandmas and kids, using the corpses of nine year olds for target practice, we down here at the Hall salute you!

Mind you, despite your sterling work Mrs. B in the front office wondered if you might not be able to pretend to be half a dozen people or something. That way you could agree with yourself and just generally pump up the numbers. As you know genocide is a tough sell and we need all the help we can get! Thanks in advance.

Oh! And good work painting those devil horns on the Palestinians. As you know, it's so much easier getting away with extermination when everyone thinks they deserve it. That blame the victim gag is an oldie but a goodie and you're certainly doing a slap-up job.

Look forward to catching up and having a drink. I'll toast you and you can toast me and we'll all agree at our superiority over the untermenschen. After all, who slaughtered whom? Honestly!

Thanks again for all your good work!

best,

Nobby

Oh shit! That wasn't public was it? I thought it was your email. Damn.

Sorry everyone, just joking. Eddie isn't a Zionist shill. There's no such thing obviously, paid or otherwise.

Um, no, Eddie is a completely normal fellow who understands that Israelis are always the victims. When they slaughter people, well not slaughter, um, shoot them in self defence. Oh hell, Eddie I don't have the style manual with me and all of this lipstick-on-a-pig caper really isn't my forte. I just slave away in accounts. Can you step in here and sort this out for me? I'd really appreciate it. Weave your magic mate. You da man!

Thanks for that, (and sorry obviously)

best,

Nobby (in Accounts)

Mrs. B in the front office said to say you should just pretend I'm someone else and dismiss me as an anti-Semite. Brilliant, really. I felt so stupid I didn't think of it myself, ha ha. She also said that after you do that, I should pop back in and act all defensive kind of thing. And really it's the least I can do.

As I always say, in Mrs B we trust. And you Eddie. You da man!

best,

Nobby
PS I'll pop back in a minute after your comment and act all weird. Schtum okay? It's all part of the act.

"George Dutton - I don't attack people who disagree with me"

eddie

That is a barefaced lie as your posts above prove...like so many of your other posts on this site. You don`t need to grow up eddie you need help,the kind of help that I am not qualified to give you.

Nobby Nobby Nobby, tsk. tsk. tsk Next you'll have poor eddie screaming" I AM NOT A GOY, I AM A HUMAN BEING" as he rings the bells of discontent. oh wait that would be the Hunchback of Notre Dame not Eddie the Hooknosed of Tel-Aviv. Me bad

Whoops that should read John merrick the Elephant Man, but I'm sure Quasimoto thought about saying it, and if not he should have.
Me still bad.

Silverfish, while I have stated my disagreement with the blogger called, 'Eddie' on many things and while I know that you were being satirical and understand the humour, I think - if I may respectfully suggest, though forgive me if it's not my place to do so - that it would be prudent if one avoided using phrases like the one in your post at 2.08am on 25/1/09. It's easy for someone in bad faith to take it out of context and claim that a site critical is Israel is simply Anti-Semitic - though I know that that was not your intention - and such a dynamic would not be productive, I think you would agree.

Well said. Yes Silverfish exposes himself for what he is. Anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are the same thing for many of these people. All of the above posts amount to personal abuse. They do not address the point raised by the channel 4 report that Hamas used human shields and is beating up (and worse) its political opponents.

Why is it that some people are willing to 'uncritically' accept the veracity of stories that show the true and bestial nature of the enemy, like Hamas, but they refuse to admit to the truth about the crimes committed by their own side, reports often reported by the same source?

So the report on Channel 4 on Monday about Israeli crimes is a blatant, foul, lie; but on Tuesday the report about Hamas brutality is suddenly, God's truth!

Doesn't this 'blindness of partisanship' ever make people think, just a little bit? Is truth and lies meaningless? Is what really matters the name of the 'tribe' one's a member of?

I suppose this is why some members of my family never really felt at home in any of the countries they lived in. At least that's the impression I got from reading their letters. One of them actually wrote in his diary in 1910 that his only country was his wallet and his people, the silver in his pocket.

Almost any European war, for the last two centuries has been a civil-war for my family, simply because they lived in so many different countries. I simply don't understand, I'm unmoved by the nationalist/tribal drumbeat, and I hope I never am.

Hamas used human shields? Can't accuse Israel of that. Israel massacres babies and children in cold blood - it's so militarily powerful, it doesn't need human shields, so it destroys them!

Hamas is NOT the Palestinian people. You do not carry out a massacre because of what a few members of Hamas might have done. If, however, you think you do have that right, then others have a right to indiscriminately bomb your people, too.

Using your logic, eddie, American authorities are perfectly entitled to drop bombs on U.S. neighborhoods - on the heads of children playing in gardens - because those housing estates "harbour" criminals.

What do you expect Hamas fighters to do? Stand in the open and wave a red flag? Israel has fighter planes!

And, in 2006, despite what Israel said, most Hezbollah fighters were firing from the countryside - they had come out of tunnels they had dug.

Palestine was once 96% non-Jew. Tell me how all the Jews got there, eddie? The Jews stole the land - the land belongs to the Palestinian people, not the Jews.

Germany carried out the Holocaust. Take it out on them, if you must take it out on someone. However, Hitler died over 60 years ago. The Jews are not being subjected to a holocaust anymore.

The 11-year-old son of a Palestinian astrophysicist who works for NASA
was murdered by Israel, with assistance from the U.S. and Britain. The guy's home was also destroyed:

"I built a new house, two-story house. I wanted to invite in a Jewish
family to live with me, side-by-side, where my children play with their
children. Now, they destroyed the house, and they killed my child. What
is this?"

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/16/palestinian_father_in_us_recounts_how

Palestinians are, by far, the biggest losers, and victims, in this conflict:

www.ifamericansknew.org

That site received a death threat from someone purporting to be an Israeli Jew. The police are investigating.

"Anti-semite" is a nonsense term. Arabs are Semites, too. Most Jews in Israel aren't originally from the Middle East, and so are not Semites. Jews are a religious group only.

Now, let's take a look at the crimes committed by certain Jews when Palestine was in British hands:

A little publicised document is "The UN Report Prepared for Ralphe Bunche", listing all the atrocities committed by Jewish terrorist groups during the 1940s. Jewish terrorists even threatened to take their campaign to Britain and kill British citizens:

www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/bunche-report.htm

www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html

One entry:

On December 30, 1947, after the kidnapping and flogging of a British Major and three sergeants by Jewish terrorists, "the Dollis Hill Synagogue in London was set on fire and 12 sacred scrolls were destroyed by angry British citizens who scrawled on the burned edifice, 'You whip - we burn'"

Other Jewish terrorist acts included: plots to blow up British military headquarters, the kidnapping and hanging of British military officials, killing British policemen, letter bombs to numerous British government officials, machine gun attacks on Palestinian cities (including the use of flame-throwers), bombing hotels, blowing up trains, blowing up oil pipelines, detonating bombs at British embassies, detonating trucks laden with explosives, and bank robbery.

In 1980, the Stern Gang (also known as Lehi) was officially honoured by the Israeli government as "freedom fighters". The Stern Gang was one of the most active terrorist Jewish groups during the 1940s, whose stated goal was to "forcibly evict the British authorities from Palestine, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state". A special Lehi ribbon - a military decoration - was designed for the former members.

The U.N. report writes: "There appears to be no way to control the Jews or their determinations to drive all of the Arabs out of Jerusalem by force if necessary.

"The initial Arab response to Jewish harassment over the past year has been very slow in coming, but it seems to be quite inevitable, and a terrible civil war is foreseen.

"The Arabs, initially living in peace with the Jewish minority, have been increasingly victimized by the Jews who, now that the British are leaving, are turning their savage behavior against them."

-

Finally, I'm rather disappointed that Craig has almost done a U-turn on Obama merely because of one thing that man has done. This is why I am now increasingly concerned only with my own happiness. Everyone is so divided, and as long as a person is given what they want, they will support that party or political leader regardless of how others are being treated.

If no one is going to pull together, why should I? Divided we stand, divided we fall!

Don't lose heart, John! Vigorous discourse - with those whom we disagree or partially agree or even with those with whom we almost entirely agree - is a sign of internal strength. Struggle has never been easy. Don't give up! The Palestinian people have not given up. I also mentioned some time ago that at this time political websites would be infiltrated en masse by organised pro-Israeli elements in an attempt to insert disinformation of various sorts, to foster discord and to dishearten and draw people away from substantive issues. This is to be expected. Don't let it get you down, man!

"Hamas brutality is suddenly, God's truth!"

writerman

Only to the weak minded...and the mentally ill...

It`s just all adds up in the book of lies...should that read volumes.

'Wiped off the Map' – "The Rumor of the Century"...

http://tinyurl.com/ytx8uu

George Galloway...

"Did Iran Say Israel Should Be Wiped Off The Map?Former parliament member George Galloway is a straight talking ex-politician who is not afraid to tackle controversy. In this clip he exposes the canard about Iran and Israel. Did Iran ever threaten to wipe Israel off the map?"...

http://tinyurl.com/aqsmoa

While Obama is freeing some Guantanamo "prisoners", he's killing innocent people in Pakistan:

"Pakistan urges Obama to halt missile attacks"

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hkiMxbHNH0BqgpWA2ZG6VD6wVTmAD95TKGK81

Silence from Obama when Israel was killing innocent Palestinians, and now silence over the death of civilians in Pakistan that he's directly responsible for.

And there's more to Obama than just his foreign policy, but I'll leave it there.

John
England was once 99% non-Norman - look at it now. The USA was once 100% non-European - what are you suggesting, that we ship out all the Normans and the Europeans? Very clever. The history of Palestine/Israel is not as simple as Israelis "stealing" Palestinian land. As for Jewish terorism, I take it that you therefore condemn Castro for his "terrorist" tactics in taking over Cuba and Mandela for his "terrorism" against the South African state? You can't have your cake and eat it. Many states around the world have been born in terrorism. One man's terrorist.. blah blah. For the record, I accept that Israel may have committed war crimes and these need to be investigated but hold the front page, war is horrible. Shock. Horror. More Germans died in WW2 than UK and US citizens combined. Does that mean it was a disproportionate or unjust war? War is war and if hamas had not been lobbing missiles into Isreal for years it could have been avoided. All of this does not detract from the fact that hamas is a clerical fascist organisation that is neo-imperialsist, as well as homophobic, racist and thoroughly nasty. It also supports polygamy and is deeply misogynistic. If you guys would like to go and live under hamas rule you are welcome to it.

Eddie

What's wrong with polygamy?

Eddie;
Hamas is not a state, they don't have their own law, they have been elected according to the Palestinian authority basic law.
2. To say Hamas is clerical is pathetic.
Although I don't understand what you mean by this, you are clearly referring to their religion, there is nothing wrong with them being Muslims. that doesn't justify you killing their children, even if Judaism said otherwise.

The thing about USA, Normans, is stupid. because you should have remembered that when you falsely claimed you had a state in palestine 2 thousand years ago., secondly, the massacre & ethnic cleansing is still going on, by bringing this argument, you are asking for free hand and immunity to kill, cleans & colonize Palestine.
If you believe you can kill we believe we should stop you.

The thing about Germans died in WW2, war is ugly...etc.... is another mindless argument, if we take your point, what problem do you have with Hitler? people die war is ugly... why are we still crying over the holocaust? can't we apply your argument and say Judah declared war on Germany and the Germans are defending themselves? this is what you get to if we are to take you seriously

Hamas is homophobic, nasty, polygamy...etc.. Is that because they are Muslims? does not Judaism approve of marrying girls as young as 3 years old??

Racists? not more than Judaism, which legalize rape at war? aren't jewish soldiers allowed to rape their enemy women at war????

And tell me why the Talmud prevents Jews from leaving their male animals with Gentile women? do you dare to answer?

Tell us what does the talmud talk about us, gentiles??? does your Talmud allow you to lie to Gentiles?

Article 31 of Hamas charter talks about followers of Judaism and christianity living side by side peacefully... do you have such thing in your religion???

Have a nice day

"What's wrong with polygamy?"

Mother in laws.

"Israel admits: "No Hamas rockets were fired during ceasefire"

"The Israeli Spokesman (Australian born!) Merk Regev, accepts that Hamas did NOT violate the Ceasefire UNTIL AFTER Israel attacked the Gaza Strip on the 4th November! This proves that it was ISRAEL that broke the ceasefire!"...

http://tinyurl.com/afbd34

Samry
I am not Jewish and even if I was it is irrelevant to the debate. I refer you to Hamas's charter which calls for the destruction of Israel and the creation of an Islamic state. If you don't know what an Islamic state looks like, then look at Iran. If you would like to live there fine, I know I would not. By clerical fascism I mean a state that is ruled by clerics and which has all the features of fascism - denial of free speech, suppression and execution of political opponents, suppression of gay rights, censorship, lack of human rights, centralism. Iran fits this description and hamas wants to create this model in Palestine.

"Israel poll ban for Arab parties"...

http://tinyurl.com/7fawkk

Denial of free speech Israel.

"WAR CRIME"

"Yonatan Schapira, a former Captain in the Israeli Air Force, speaks out against the Israeli invasion of Gaza"...

http://tinyurl.com/9fwcco

Eddie;
First of all, Hamas is Sunni Muslims, Iran is Shia, there is a fundamental difference in understanding Islamic law between the two. clerics has only advisory rule in Sunni belief.

Secondly; Hamas have the right to call for whatever they want in their charter, that doesn't mean it will be the law of the state?? Hamas was elected by the Palestinian authority secular law. and this is the law they upheld as a government.

Thirdly; Hamas is one of five factions in Gaza that are resisting the occupation, some of these are socialists like the Popular Front, or secular ( Fatah), and the government they formed was cross-parties, its only when Fatah withdraw from the government that Hamas became the de facto government in Gaza.

Your understanding of Islamic law is very distorted, for example, do you know the wife has the right to put conditions on the marriage? and if at the time of marriage she put a condition the husband can't take a second wife.. then he can't ? this is by islamic law? and it happened in too many cases???

Above all, religions is not the subject here, Hamas can promote and live the way the want in their country, if you believe they deserve to die because they are Muslims.... then there is something very wrong with you... not them.... every one live in accordance with his culture and belief and I don't believe I have to say this.

Exactly, and there's a host of similar testimony from various disparate sources. I'm afraid that for example, much of the input presented by 'Eddie' is disinformative and ahistorical and reminds me of the letters one sees penned to newspapers backing Israeli state actions - many of these seem drawn from a template, a long list of 'arguments to present', as though each one were a particular type of ammunition designed to disable a specific narrative and divert the narrative towards a desired target, eg. Iran. Perhaps I'm being unfair. Nonetheless, one respects others' views even if very different from one's own, even if infuriating, etc., and it's good to have a rational discourse with those who hold varying viewpoints. One can learn much. And these matters are complex. The Israeli commentators, Ilan Pappe, Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, Uri Avnery and many others, some ex-armed forces and even an ex-Chief of Shin Bet, all disagree with the type of views often desperately presented by the so-called 'friends of Israel', who, one can argue, actually, long-term, are the worst sort of friends for Israel to have, allowing too many Israelis to sink into a kind of fostered delusional state. These are matters of propaganda and the moulding of public opinion. There are also internal issues within Israel of considerable import, eg. the manner in which the Mizrahi (Jews originating from Arab countries) have deliberately and persistently been alienated from the Palestinians, when actually they share very deep bonds of culture on every single level - and there's much more.

A definitive political solution is required but will not occur unless those in the USA and EU with power are put under increasing levels of pressure so that it becomes in their self-perceived interests to alter their policy. This will be a long struggle. South Africa was in some ways a different situation but it took over 40 years and the end of the Cold War before the apartheid regime agreed to demolish itself. The pressure must be on, so that when and if macro-politics change, the pieces are in the place for some similarly dramatic denouement in the Levant involving territory and human rights.

Concrete things, to do right now:

1) Write politely to every local councillor, MSP, MP (and the Welsh equivalents), Chief Executive of the council, Head of the council and Government minister urging disinvestment of the local council/ country with a list of requisite companies, a small example of direct action: Glasgow City Council buys water at work from Eden Water - which is stolen from the Occupoed Golan Heights. What is wrong with Scottish water? Or English water? Or almost any other water? Refuse to drink Eden Water - take in tap water instead. If we replicate this type of thing across the country, we hit them where it hurts.

2) Write strongly but rationally to the BBC to complain about their refusal to broadcast the charity piece and write another, separate, letter complaining about biased coverage.

3) Complain to Ofcom.

Everyone can do these three things.

No despair. Let's fight the way that's right!

January 23, 2009

"Weapons are smuggled into Gaza from Israel, says Egyptian human rights official"...

http://tinyurl.com/cgfv4a

Hamas receives training from Iran as well as rockets. Iran is also helping to rebuild the tunnels.

George Dutton - I had a look at your dreary site. You seem to be a supporter of the discredited Tommy Sheridan - well known perjuror and all round seedy character, following in the footsteps of GG on big brother. Oh dear, what a poor choice of role model!

eddie

You may WELL be hearing off Tommy Sheridan lawyers I fear. I only hope you can substantiate that scurrilous and dangerous accusation in court.The last off liers that tried that failed.

eddie

Don`t worry you will get off with it you only have to plead insanity, there`s not one person in the land that will believe YOU are sane...LOL.

eddie

This thread is dead now...no one comes here...I would like to know (I won`t tell anyone...honest) was I right...you don`t have a partner do you?.

Hellooo! Eddie! Nobby in accounts here. I've been sitting around in the office waiting for my anti-Semite tag. Perhaps I should go home?

Oh wait! Was that you as that Silverfish fellow! Sorry I didn't get it. And there I was saying you should pretend to be someone else! Good move! And then you instantly came back as yourself and whipped out your ever reliable anti-Semite stick! Bravo. Some of us are suited to the hurly burly and some of us should just keep mum and do the accounts. (Er, in case that was confusing, I'm the latter)

Anyway you seem to have the whole caper well in hand with everyone arguing over your idiot debating points ad nauseam. Excellent work! You're truly tireless. And you're not even Jewish! Ha ha ha, good one! I can't wait to tell Mrs. B that one.

Onwards and upwards mate! Or as we say around here, From the Nile to the Euphrates!

best,

Nobby (in accounts)

"ad nauseam"

Nobby in accounts

Good one...

Wish I had thought off that...LOL.

Nobby in accounts

It`s called...."Maeror Tri - Multiple Personality Disorder"

eddie/Silverfish/Nazi hunter

Mr Dutton,

I'm just an accountant trying to have a personal conversation with Eddie, if you don't mind.

As for the intricacies of public discussions of defending the indefensible, I leave that to Eddie since he's so very good at it.

Good day to you.

George I must confess I am quaking in my boots. Don't you realise my role here is Darwinian, to keep you and yours on your toes and to give you a hate figure to gang up on? It wouldn't be much of a forum if you all agreed with each other would it? But you are right, the thing is dead, so I am off to saner pastures.

Eddie,

How perfectly correct you are. What would we do without you? Apart from exchange information, ideas, and ways of thinking? Perish the thought. Rather than do that, best we spend all day arguing about whatever it is that you think important.

Honestly, who could even contemplate a life not spent in perpetual conflict? Not you, that's for sure. And obviously we should all be like you. Well, not like you, just in complete agreement with you - lesser celestial bodies orbiting around your self-regard.

Anyway as you swan off, I wish you luck in your attempts to trash harmony, bring about perpetual conflict, and otherwise cheer on that unlauded aspect of Darwin's theory, the killing of all those who are not the fittest. May 'you and yours' be the only people left standing victorious on a mountain made from the corpses of the untermenschen. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that God is on your side.

Craig,

Here is an analysis by Chomsky re Obama and Palestine.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ah9zbwj429jj_150j7zp2hhd

"Thursday, January 29, 2009"

"Obama Order to Close Secret CIA Prisons Overseas Has a Big Loophole In It"...

http://tinyurl.com/dmagqd

February 1, 2009

"Obama to retain rendition for terrorists"...

http://tinyurl.com/aehnjh

February 1, 2009

"Afghanistan and Pakistan's "Salvador Option" "

"With a rightist insurgency raging on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border, the United States is resorting to a tried-and-true method to stem the rising fundamentalist tide: direct military intervention and massive violence."...

http://tinyurl.com/bvxodl