You did not let the victims down Craig. your evidence was well delivered. It is to the media's shame that their level of reporting has been so low.

The net can be used to encourage people to the recordings of yoru evidence and to demand answers.

As for the "establishment" they never wanted you to give evidence so they are hardly going to draw attention to it.

You did not let the victims down Craig. your evidence was well delivered. It is to the media's shame that their level of reporting has been so low.

The net can be used to encourage people to the recordings of yoru evidence and to demand answers.

As for the "establishment" they never wanted you to give evidence so they are hardly going to draw attention to it.

Radio 4 Today had a good report from David Wilbey on the Committee hearing with several extracts of Craig's evidence.

42'30" in on http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00jyylj (expires in 7 days)

Well done Craig. You have not let anyone down. The word is out and more and more people are listening. You are a brave and courageous man.

I often think that John Delane, Editor of The Times in the early 1850s and author of the wonderfully hard-hitting editorial on 6 February 1852 in which he clearly and unequivocally laid down the distinctions between the world of the "statesman" (politician) and that of the "public writer" (journalist) and thereby in essence codified the profession of the journalist, must be spinning in his grave with anger and shame at what these presstitutes have reduced his profession to.

"For us," he wrote, "with whom publicity and truth are the air and light of existence, there can be no greater disgrace than to recoil from the frank and accurate disclosure of the facts as they are. We are bound to tell the truth as we find it, without fear of consequences..."

I think the mainstream media have forgotten why Lord Macaulay called them the "Fourth Estate" and what their role is in a truly free and democratic society.

Don't beat yourself up on this Mr. Murray; this is only the first step of many.

In today's bread and circuses media the way to get saturation coverage is for tawdry sensationalism, think Heather Mills-McCartney.

Next phase could be for you to make a humongous claim for compensation; multiple millions, the more ridiculous the better. And ensure the moral support of pointing out that half the winnings will go to torture victims support.

Max Clifford has just lost a client, phone him up.

Craig

You done ALL that was humanly possible.You could have done nothing more.

If it is of any consolation to you I think the bulk off the Parliamentary Joint Human Rights Committees final report was written BEFORE you gave evidence.

Mr Murray, your influence grows daily. You have let nobody down. Look at the figures you quoted last week about visitor numbers to this site. The dead tree, journalist brigade are shameless apologists for executive power (I know, because to my shame I was one). Their days are numbered, yours is just arriving.

You have let nobody down, Craig - least of all yourself. The edifice of truth which has been systematically demolished by our shameful government over the past decade at the behest of Bush and his neo-Con thugs can only be rebuilt slowly, brick by brick. Your evidence yesterday was a vital foundation stone in the process. It is now in the open, and most importantly, on the internet. Perseverance and patience must be our watchwords. One cannot undo the brainwashing of years in a few minutes.

Temporary depression is a natural reaction to a stressful event such as yesterday was for you. By the weekend I hope you will be toasting yourself with champagne.

I heard the Radio 4 Today Programme piece this morning. It is a pity that it was not repeated later.

Thinking about your courageous efforts & how difficult it is to break through the government machine to change the injustices that are perpetrated.

I think you gave a very good account of your experiences.

However, the torture undertaken with the knowledge/complicity of the UK spooks, & USED to construct the WAR OF TERROR story in the UK, needs to be fully exposed.

I keep banging on about _Salahuddin Amin_ & how the torture/trickery undertaken by the Pakistan ISI was used to achieve the 'Operation Crevice' (fertiliser plot) convictions. [See http://preview.tinyurl.com/coxknc ]

Another torture recipient was _Azhar Khan_ (the brother-in-law of the 'Crevice' convicted Omar Khyam). [ see http://preview.tinyurl.com/cflnap ]

The 'Crevice' case was linked with the July 7th events, as the '7/7 helpers' trial, which concluded yesterday, reminded us.

Lets see if the forthcoming ISC report will reveal any more, but I doubt it.

The fact that you had little or minimal press does not diminish the impact of what you did yesterday.
To be honest I didn't really think you'd even get the BBC and R4 features you did,so you should be really proud!
If anything,it shows the degree to which the media has been brainwashed,so reversing this doesn't happen overnight.
Lots of stuff on Susan Boyle's makeover and Obama's pet,though.

I'm not sure what more you could have done, short of dressing up as Spiderman to get media attention while delivering the information. I think that would have undermined the message, though. :)

At the very least it gives us another example to show people who still believe the media are doing their jobs and telling the full story. And it gives us something concrete to show people who don't believe our government encourages torture. I hope it does more, too.

It's hard to imagine any real change in the world while the media is still infatuated with (if not literally controlled by and/or completely dependent on) the rich and powerful. That is, IMO, the problem of our age which allows all other problems to grow, unchecked. Difficult one to fix, though, since most people don't go looking for the truth if it isn't served on a plate and the media isn't into self-criticism (except of the disingenuous, "gosh we are awesome but sometimes we slip-up ever so slightly and are only semi-awesome" variety). Look how many reviews the excellent Media Lens book got in the papers...

You did a good thing, be proud and keep going.

For me the non coverage amounts to media complicity in the cover up of UK complicity in torture.

So don't feel bad just keep screaming...

Criag I think you did very well. I saw the live broadcast and heard you on Radio 4 this morning. I may disagree with you on some things but I am against torture and even if the barbarians were at the gates we should not become barbarians ourselves. The sad truth is that most people think that there are people out there who want to kill us and they have allowed our governments to do whatever it takes to stop them.

If I can borrow a tainted phrase, and rehabilitate it by applying it to you: "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, and your indefatigability".

By speaking up, by speaking out, by speaking truth to power, by refusing to be cowed, by holding to your course over long years and in difficult circumstances, you are an inspiration to many. You have let no-one down.

Change is coming. It might come in a low, slow rumble rather than a sudden blinding flash, but the tide is turning. Obama has released the torture memos. Your evidence had five minutes on the Today programme. You are on the right side of history.

From the BBC link:

"The British government, including the intelligence and security agencies, never uses torture for any purpose, including obtaining information. Nor would we instigate others to do so."

"The government says it abhors torture but has said intelligence of threats to life cannot be completely ignored."

Time for the Chlorpromazine.

"But I am completely astonished, and horribly depressed, that there has been almost no mainstream media of this quite sensational information"

Im not. They will make a token gesture against torture. A "suggestion" to add some weak rules to the way future information is received from foreign intelligence agencies, perhaps. Some cover their ass shite like that so it doesnt look to the few people who are watching that they condone torture.

Google News from what I can tell is currently picking up just two news items netwide on yesterday's proceedings - the BBC and "Unobserver", which has simply put up Craig's press release.

So it does look as if they have successfully buried it. The Guardian have a vendetta against Craig, so won't report it, which ought (in Fleet Street's warped world) give The Indie or even Times or Telegraph an incentive to report it, but they have all sacked their reporters so they would have had nobody there in the committee room to report it. I guess the only chance now is a feature in the Sundays, but perhaps only a paper with a grudge against Jack Straw would do that - the Mail?

I actually think the BBC piece is not a bad piece of reporting, the reporter has picked up Craig's main points, except perhaps for not making the connection that waterboarding and "the vogue for false intelligence" was actually about generating a false justification for the invasion of Iraq, not just something going on in the context of "the build up to the war in Iraq".

I think perhaps the next big thing needs to be the public inquiry into the said build up, and if this takes place under a new administration there *may* be a window to really press home the scale of this scandal ie just how many of our supposed core values we ditched in the cause of "getting up Washington's arse and staying there".

Finally. The pic illustrating the BBC piece I do believe is from Craig's Blackburn election address. What is missing from the pic is the slogan underneath: "British bulldog NOT Bush's poodle". And as the threads of the story come back together Bush's poodle is really what all this was about.

Craig,

In giving your evidence you shone like a star. The fact that the Mainstream Media almost completely ignored it should come as no surprise.

Our culture has been descending down the slippery slope to a fascist dictatorship for the last 30 years.

Only a small percentage of the population are even aware of what has already happenned.

People can only "know" the information they are exposed to and are programmed with - by their parents, their school and what they see and read. Whilst it has always been that way - that information is now much more heavily controlled.

Most do not have the time, nor inclination to gain a truly objective view about anything. If you are heavily programmed in anything - be it politics, culture, religion, the environment etc - then most people will accept that view - and believe it to be true. They will then go on to defend their position without ever questioning their core beliefs even to death. Trying to change people's beliefs by argument is usually completely futile.

In order to move forward our society and all of us individually, must question almost everything we believe to be true as honestly and objectively as we can. We need to test as if we were scientists with a clear agenda to determine the truth - rather than provide the results we are being paid to provide. Corruption is endemic throughout almost our entire society.

Elites with enormous wealth and power, determine the agenda - yet such people are only human beings who's core beliefs may well be completely wrong based on other's misinformation.

Most of the rest of us just go along like sheep without question.

In order to understand, how we have arrived at this sorry state - we must determine the truth of how we got here.

The law was written for a purpose. Many in high positions appear likely to have not only broken the law, but to have committed very serious crimes against our core humanity. They need to be prosecuted and cross-examined to determine the truth. Some may be innocent - but their prosecution should reveal the guilty.

We have evil people not only in control of us in government - but also in control of what we think.

How dare those in control of radio, tv and the newspapers drown us with trash and completely ignore evidence of Government complicity to boil people to death.

The complicity and the guilt spreads.

We need to complain.

Tony

Well done Craig truth is truth and history will tell....On a brighter note over 26000 have now voted for Brown to resign on the No10 site....

Craig, I think this may go some way to explaining what happened
http://tiny.cc/cm15e

Question from Keith on Medialens Message Board:

"I'm curious about how Craig Murray got into a position where he could cause such a fuss. Aren't troublemakers weeded out long before they become ambassadors? Did he always have a moral backbone or did he become an apostate?"

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1240998970.html

Best wishes,
Stephen

You did good, Craig, you have nothing to reproach yourself for. I too was very sad and very annoyed that e.g. the Beeb decided to tuck the story away in their 'politics section' (their word for sucking up to TPTB).

The way your evidence was received is entirely symptomatic of a nation whose moral health is in desperate decline. I've given evidence/spoken to a PC (and in other political arenas) professionally as an expert witness and personally. One prepares scrupulously, checks and double checks facts, leaves 'baggage' at home to avoid colouring the truth with one's own feelings etc. etc. I too have been amazed at how politicians, journalists, police, senior public services managers a) twist/spin even the most basic and indisputable facts and b) somehow find it impossible to apprehend truth when it jumps up and socks 'em between the eyes.

It's immensely disappointing and it's sometimes made me feel sort of grubby after such an encounter. But it IS indicative of the psychological phenomenon that applies: projection. Many habitual liars and those addicted to denial are simply not able to conceive that other people might actually be telling the plain truth and expecting the right thing to be done as a result. In all circumstances it's unethical and immoral. In legal circumstances particularly it is called corruption. It stems from the very same convoluted sewer from which springs self-justification for expense claims for three residences, porn videos, sink plugs etc ad nauseum.

And I hate it that Edmund Burke was soooo right: 'Evil prospers whilst good men stand by'.

Well, you are not just standing by. You're doing a great service Craig, for all of us. Thank you again.

Sir,

I watched you present your case yesterday and was extremely impressed with your calm and unhurried manner and clarity of thought. You have no reason to feel that you let anybody down, that shame belongs to the mainstream media and, of course, our repulsive government.

No surprise that the media was silent.

Not even The Express which likes to stir it up establishment wise (Princess Diana etc) made comment. Does one wholly ignore the MSM and use alternative media? Would say no because crimes of omission can be pointed to and allow many people seeing information through sources like this to get the measure of our country and the veneer of a free press. All are rigorously policed (for want of a better word) especially their comments sections (Times, Guardian partic).

Craig;
You were a hero.
Lack of coverage is due to your excellent performance; any coverage of your evidence will be indictment against Straw-Blair band.
Had you stammered or did a mistake; you would have made a front page story of the year on the Sun.
You were handsome yesterday as well

I thought you did a brilliant job, Craig. If you had delivered your evidence with even the slightest hint of drama you would have been dismissed as part of the 'awkward squad' and I'm sure Today would not have run their excellent report at all. The BBC article is also very good.

Your evidence itself is now part of the official record and might act as a stepping stone for long game-changing articles in places like Counterpunch, Salon, and the NYT. Luckily you're a hard worker and an excellent writer!

Another side of the torture thing is recruitment in the secret services.

I remember a story of an Iraqi from Fallujah, who travelled from London to Amman on business trip, he was arrested at Amman Airport and beaten up for several days in an apparent attempt to recruit him to work for the British intelligence, he refused repeatedly.

He was interrogated in English, and they insisted on him to speak in English? Although he is an Arab in an Arabic country????

He described his ordeal on Yevone Ridley’s The Agenda show few years ago!!

Hi Craig,

Contact Jeff Rense and link this blog to rense.com and you'll access a much broader audience. As a result people will track to your daily blogs. You'll double your readers in no time.

Viribus unitis
Gigi

Dear Mr Murray,
Thank you. Many and many people in Uzbekistan still remember you as an honest and truthful gentleman. We hope to see you in Uzbekistan in good times when we get rid off the tyranny of Karimov.

Well done Craig - I've just watched you on Youtube. You were excellent.
The media may not have picked up on the story, or have been directed elsewhere, and the committee can choose to ignore your evidence, but it is on the record now and can't be buried and ignored for ever.
You are bound to feel a bit wrung out and "down" after an event like that; but you have made the voices of the tortured heard.
Keep it up.

I watched the whole thing. You were VERY impressive and I can find nothing to say by way of even the most constructive criticism, given the setting etc.

I was especially taken by your 'creating a market for the products of torture' analogy - it was VERY telling indeed.

BTW - what was your impression of the causes of that walk-out? Seemed to me to be prompted by feigned disgust at you successfully introducing the US and 'waterboarding' but difficult to get the full atmosphere from the broadcast sound and picture.

Craig - there is definitely no chance you have let anyone down. Your evidence was calm, rational and precise. As I mentioned on yesterday's thread, I didn't think there was much more you could have added, or areas where your remit was artificially restricted by the chairman.

It is a disappointment that the media have been slow on this, but I don't think we should stop pushing them on it. I will continue to contact media organisations, especially smaller ones that may be sympathetic to the issue. We will get there, but perhaps yesterday will be the catalyst rather than the big bang we all hoped.

Best wishes to you, and well done again.

well done craig,
calm, rational evidence
..and don't expect too much from the MSM. They have their own agenda.
Keep up the good fight,

Well done Craig, just wanted to congratulate you on a great job, and having the bravery to stand up against torture like this. Thank you.

I watched you live Craig and you were excellent. Don't be down about whether it makes any difference. You have done what you set out to do and done it very well.
Please keep doing so.

After all his years of tireless campaigning it was great to see and hear Craig give his evidence to the parliamentary JCHR. And his disappointment at the lack of coverage is therefore understandable.

But as others have opined it's necessary to give it some time. After having invested so much in the lies, deceit and corruption of our rulers the mainstream media (MSM) is naturally reluctant to upset the hornet's nest of complicity and war criminality that lies at the heart of their silence.

Once again, this is where bloggers can play the leading role in ensuring that the news gets out. Please bloggers everywhere, publish this news far and wide.

I have already done so at http://chimesofreedom.blogspot.com/2009/04/nobody-can-hear-you-scream-former-uk.html and
http://greengorilla47.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/1194/

Let's put this in perspective.

If only the torturer heard their screams this is something different than hardly anyone hearing you (given the size of the population what you say is true) because your own heart heard you speaking and your conscience read the state of your being and each and every one of us is a universe unto ourselves and we add to the collective awareness of the whole world no matter how faint our voices may appear.

If any speaks the truth it vibrates out across the world. Ideas like acts, move through time and we cannot know the final destiny of either. If I had to rely on the evidence of the size of my own audience I could despair of the value of my work but... I do believe that we are doing the work of some force beyond our understanding. This force has only human minds and hearts and hands to work with.

You are an example of "the better angels of our nature" and you are not alone. Even if I were convinced that nothing I said or did ever made any difference I would still not change what I do and I do believe that this feature in the minority that we are both members of will stand in judgment of us at some future time and I do believe that everything we say and do will eventually lead to a larger opportunity to express it whether it be you or George W. Bush. He finally got the chance to show the world what he was made of. You will get that chance too.

Yahweh hears you, that is all that really matters. My hope is your truths and courage will spread this planet like a wild fire so that the monsters who are at the root cause of all this suffering can receive their just punishment. Yahweh Bless!

Craig...

It's natural after such an onerous task and the build-up to it that you feel a bit down.

Dont be.

You did a fantastic job yesterday.You were completely plausuble,dignified,measured,calm yet utterly incisive when you had to be.You should be immensely proud of what you have done-and have been doing for years.

I applaud your bravery,determination and humanity.It shones o brightly out of you yesterday.There are MANY on your side here,abd beyond, who watch with great interest.

"From one small acorn a mighty oak may grow..."

If what you have done causes ONE torturer or person in power to think again then you have achieved what damn few ever will.If you have helped to prevent ONE more scream or death rattle you have achieved what damn few ever will.

Please keep up the struggle Craig.So many have immnese respect for you.

We,together, will not give up.

Together we WILL win the argument-though it WILL take time.

Thank you again Craig,most sincerely.

You are a lion.

Craig,

Your evidence was calm, concise and compelling, and I don't think there was more you could possibly have done on this occasion.

The silence of the corporate media (with one small BBC exception) tells us volumes about how trustworthy they are with any stories which might redound to the discredit of those in power to whom they seem so eager to suck up.

As with the issue of G20 policing, it seems that it's now up to bloggers to give your evidence the widest currency. Hence:

http://www.thejudge.me.uk/Rants/Rants.htm#29_04_09

Keep on keeping on!

Bravo Craig, I think you did superbly. I too am disappointed at the lack of coverage but that is the media's fault, the 'Market For Torture' concept is very strong. That there were not headlines (apart from the dutiful BBC piece) of -Straw Created a Market For Torture- is very sad, yes there are financial pressures on journalism but choices were made, flu got covered ad nauseam (does it make you nauseous? Find out in out 12 page OUTBREAK pullout) as did other stories so it's not simple economics (and Philippe Sands evidence got zero coverage). It's going to be a long haul as Obama's 'look forward' bullshit demonstrates, but when all is said and done you were on the right side and did what many others didn't have the principles or courage (and obstinacy!) to do. As you said in the committee others said 'rather you than me'- they failed, you have succeeded.

Well done Craig for entering the vipers pit and rattling a few snake tails in the process. What got me the most was the almost coordinated lack of response by the mainstream media, how come the numbers as stated by the Google video link is always so low, you get more comments on here than views on these sites, I don’t believe the states for one moment, as anyone that did comment must have seen the video in the first place.

Well done Craig,

You were heard by many, and many more will hear your voice.

Call it faith or optimism, but the truth can not be forever muted. For those who believe in the truth in your words, that is enough of a motivation to continue down this painful path and stand together for the cause.

You did us all proud! Well done.

Well done Craig,

You were heard by many, and many more will hear your voice.

Call it faith or optimism, but the truth can not be forever muted. For those who believe in the truth in your words, that is enough of a motivation to continue down this painful path and stand together for the cause.

You did us all proud! Well done.

Re: Mark Wood

YouTube does seem to be working rather oddly...

On a search for the footage it states on the result page that it has had no views.

Click on the file and then it says, oh , there have actually been over 100 views.

Try viewing the file and re-viewing the file and the view counter does not go up.

I don't know what is going on, but I would conclude that yes, the youtube viewing figures are inaccurate.

Re: Tony

Is it possible you could create a torrent file from the footage

this would

a) allow people to download the whole file in one piece for viewing and storage against possible future removal/blockage from you-tube

b) make it harder for the authorities to track who is watching the footage

I'm sure you will be able to find human rights sites that would happily seed the torrent

It's time to celebrate Craig. The 28th April 2009 was your day, Truth on Torture Day. As has already been said here, you laid the foundations, the stepping stones, that will lead to sanity. Maybe things will get worse first. That's not unusual. The lack of interest in the media is a fact, but insignificant in the long run.
Personally you have inspired me to do and say things that otherwise I would not have, and therefore you must have inspired many many others similarly. I'm not unique.
There were at least a couple of items you laid on the table yesterday that invoked sharp intakes of breath in the committee members. As you were talking at the time you were probably unaware of that.
It is now all written down, all on the record and cannot be erased.
So a time to celebrate.
As I've said before, Well Done!

Craig, maybe your best bet is to focus more on getting a network of people to hassle their local rags on publishing some of your articles. I will report back next week with my results.

Craig,

You let nobody down; the road will be long and a vitally important stage of the journey was completed yesterday.

You did a great thing, sir.

Craig,

I suspect the situation is not so dire as it might seem. Listening to Phillipe Sands' evidence which he gave after you I heard him opine that it would be best for the UK to examine torture cases independently else they would have to be dealt with in dribs and drabs after enquiries in the USA.

The question arises: has the JCHR already foreseen this eventuality and acknowledging the permanent embarrassment your own allegations pose to any UK government decided that the best thing was to give you a hearing?

That way they cover themselves in anticipation of any further likely revelations and embarrasments that are likely to arise in the future.

I understand Human Rights Watch is soon expected to publish a study of UK collusion with Pakistan in torture. At this time I haven't been able to trace such a study on the HRW website. But if and when it does get published that's going to give your case added relevance.

All is by certainly no means lost.

Craig,

You are one of a rare breed. A professional who adheres to the highest principles of his profession and to his duty to the public interest. People like that are always a thorn in the side of a corrupt government. Think John Stalker. You are in good company down through the ages. You are few. But ultimately you reveal the canker of corruption which would remain hidden beneath the surface if you were to do what the majority do: blindly obey orders out of a mixture of unction and fear. You are a good man, and for what you have done you will be long remembered, and in a just world would be richly rewarded.

On another note, I met a professed paedophile, or might have done. Here's what he said. "I get regular copies of paedophiliac literature through the mail. Of course I abhor the abuse of children. I'm completely against it. But of course it would be silly not to take a quick look through the stuff just in case any of it turns me on."

ADVISORY NOTE: This anecdote may contain an analogy.

You did fine.

Best Wishes,
Stephen

I can't find words to congratulate you sufficiently for your brilliant, eloquent testimony, Craig. My two highlights (both in the last YouToob video):

1.
"Why was no-one else motivated? Why, as far as I'm aware, the only Senior British Civil Servant who put down in writing that we should not get intelligence from torture: It is illegal, it is against UNCAT . . . . I find that really quite extraordinary- the fact that you can make people go along with it."

2.
Craig>> "The sad truth is, isn't it, that it seems that government organisations, civil services, government lawyers will go along with the most terrible and inhumane things that their political masters tell them to. And the number of people- the percentage of poeople- that will stand up and say that "this is immoral, this is wrong, this is illegal, you shoudln’t do it" is very, very small."

Chairman>> “Because the strongest thing for your case would be corroboration, wouldn’t it, from another independent source, but we don’t have that. So I’m just, really, trying to get to the bottom of why, if these allegations are true, that no-one else has come forward having already had someone who has come out and made them.

Craig>> “I don’t think the government has ever denied anything that I have just said to you. I would be very, very surprised if they ever turned around to you and said that anything that I said to you is factually wrong. I have here a document- I published a book on this of my time in Uzbekistan. I’m not going to mention the name to you in case I’m accused of advertising. I had to go through the clearance process that civil servants go through when they publish a book and I have here the table of comments and the things the foreign office asked me to change and the fascinating things is that, for example, the account I give in the book of that meeting with Michael Wood and Linda Duffield, they didn’t ask for any changes. They only asked for one very small change. The Foreign Office has not denied the facts of what I’m telling you.”

Craig rules.

Thanks for standing up against evil.

Just to echo what previous comments have said, I think your performance was excellent. I watched it last night and was gripped by it - on so many levels it exposed the dark underside of our establishment yet your testimony was a breath of fresh air and hope. Not surprised it got so little exposure but I'm forwarding the youtube links to as many people as possible .

Don't give up. The next ten years are going to see such radical changes with the future so uncertain that people like you, of such good heart, are very important.

Bravo Craig,

Massive Cojones!

None of the pussies in the FCO will risk their non-comtributary, index-linked pension for what is just, right + true.

Quite apart from the unreliability of torture-derived evidence: even were that not so, we should be taking a firm lead as a nation on this issue.

I want to do a properly considered post on this in the next couple of days.

@Greengorilla47 - thanks for the post on IMCUK. I am also spreading the word. You do blogs, I will try small publications on the left (Red Pepper) and NGOs (am chipping away at the Amnesty behemoth, and will try web-based Avaaz too).

@All - we will get there O:o)

Well done. You obviously started with some allies on the committee and seem to have won a few more during your session.

You cannot legislate morality, though you should base your legislation on morality. You should base policy on an ethical position as well as a legal one, since laws can never accommodate all situations. The ethics of the UK government are clear, it makes no difference who does the torturing or where it happens.

I watched the live webcast all the way through.

Well done Craig, it was a masterful, professional performance.

As for the British Government collusion with torture, I have just come across this article on The Cage
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/nov/12/secondworldwar.world

As with many things despicable e.g.including the invention of concentration camps (for the Boers), chemcial gas attacks in N Iraq, the British lead the way.

Dissident Voice have an article by Tom Burghardt on a reinstated lawsuit against a Boeing subsidiary that flew the five plaintiffs for rendition and torture. They include Binham Mohamed.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/torture-flight-lawsuit-against-boeing-subsidiary-reinstated-by-us-appeals-court/

Torture Flight Lawsuit Against Boeing Subsidiary Reinstated by U.S. Appeals Court
by Tom Burghardt / April 30th, 2009

In a victory for the rule of law and for victims of state-sponsored torture, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth District in San Francisco, reinstated the ACLU’s landmark lawsuit against Boeing subsidiary, Jeppesen DataPlan.

The civil lawsuit, Mohamed et al. v. Jeppesen DataPlan, Inc., was filed in 2007 on behalf of five men who were kidnapped, forcibly disappeared and then secretly transferred to CIA “black sites” or into the clutches of allied intelligence services. The victims claim they were horribly tortured, subjects of what the Bush regime has termed “enhanced interrogation.”

The plaintiffs are Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian-born British resident arrested in Pakistan with the complicity of the CIA, Britain’s MI5 and Pakistan’s notoriously corrupt Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). For eighteen months, Mohamed was secretly detained and tortured in Morocco. In 2004, he was blindfolded, stripped, shackled and flown by CIA agents on a flight organized by Jeppesen DataPlan to the secret U.S. detention facility in Kabul, Afghanistan known as the “Dark Prison.” In Afghanistan, Mohamed was repeatedly tortured before his transfer to the Guantánamo Bay gulag. He was released earlier this year without charge.

/continues......

Sorry for typo - s/be Binyam

"I was trying to speak up for those who have no voice. I feel very strongly that I have let them down."

Craig, frankly that is rubbish. You have not let them down. You have done exactly what you should have done, no more and no less. It's always difficult to be objective about one's own actions but believe me, you've done far more than many others would have - or could have.

Let's not kid ourselves, man's turpitude is virtually endless. But, chin up - the battle goes on. This is a long war and we must take comfort and heart from each small victory. You've done well. Remember, only a few short weeks ago even this was beyond your grasp. Your evidence is now a matter of public record, and that is all to the good.

Just watched your evidence again on BBC Parliament. It simply and amply reinforces my view that you handled the quesioning very well. Sands was also interesting - 'regularity' seems to be the pivotal aspect, and one which you clearly demonstrated. 'Condoning' and 'complicity' are interesting terms, too.

Of course such (deliberate) passivity whilst morally repugnant, is not necessarily illegal.

Dismore still does not impress me.

Now we're obliged to wait.

Craig, the uncorrected Hansard of your evidence is now online at:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200809/jtselect/jtrights/uc230-ii/uc23002.htm