Norwegian Killer Linked to Tea Party and EDL

by craig on July 23, 2011 1:09 pm in Uncategorized

Anders Behring Breivik posted links to the Atlas Shrugs website of the Tea Party’s Pamela Geller. Here you can see him under the name of Anders Behring (his middle name) posting links to Geller’s “Atlas Shrugs” site. That cache page is bing translated from Norwegian.

Here is a video of Pamela Geller addressing the Tennessee Tea Party convention. This is a list of links I just copied off her Atlas shrugs website to a stream of virulent anti Norwegian-Muslim articles Geller has been publishing:

January 2009: NORWAY: Jewish children are not allowed to play outdoors –

April 2011: Norway: Muslim Taxidrivers Refuse to Drive Jews to Synagogue

May 2009: More Jewish Graves Desecrated in Norway

2009: OSLO: ANTI-ISRAEL RALLY TURNS VIOLENT

2011: Norway: ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims

2008: Jewish Genocide watch: Jew Hatred in Norway Part II

2009: JIHAD ON THE JEWS: Something rotten in the state of Norway

2008: ISLAM ATTACKS – Death for Writer! Norway Hides

2007: Massive Islamic Terror Plots: Germany, Norway, Denmark

2007: Email from Norway

2006: Norway calls for Israel Boycott

The links themselves appear to have been disabled. You could still see the links on Atlas Shrugs here as I type this. Someone more technically proficient than me might want to grab a screenshot before the list vanishes.

Geller has been actively promoting links between the Tea Party and the English Defence League. Geller states on her website that she had been in Oslo to attend a pro-Israel rally. It would be interesting to know whether Anders Behring-Breivik was also on that rally.

We are told that Behring Breivik acted alone. In truth he had ideological and communication links with organised far right networks every bit as solid as the comparable connections of Islamic terrorists.

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213 Comments

  1. Hmm, if the connections were comparable then they would be every bit as solid, just sayin

  2. Paul,

    That is indeed the point I am making. Plainly the links above are just something to give investigators a direction and indicate from where he drew inspiration. But where Muslims are concerned, internet links or the attendance at the same meeting hvae been deemed enough evidence to lock people up for years.

  3. “A Norwegian man suspected of setting off a blast that killed seven in central Oslo and gunning down 84 youths at a political meeting bought 6 tonnes of fertiliser in May, a farm supply firm said today.”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/oslo-bomb-suspect-bought-6-tonnes-of-fertiliser-2319284.html
    .
    He had a vegetable growing business, according to a Norwegian paper last night. I wonder was it legit.

  4. Rupert Murdoch has a vegetable growing business.

  5. Rupert Murdoch is a vegetable: Deadly Nightshade.

  6. “Rupert Murdoch has a vegetable growing business.”
    .
    :) :)

  7. @Craig, Firefox with the Scrapbook plugin allows you to capture pages whole for reference.

  8. There’s a more direct EDL mention where Breivik expresses admiration for the EDL on http://www.document.no/anders-behring-breivik/

    “Creating a Norwegian EDL should be No. 3 on the agenda after we have started up a cultural conservative newspaper with national distribution.”

    To save you google translating:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.document.no%2Fanders-behring-breivik%2F

    There’s a mention of the acronym ‘GDP’, apparently related to the BNP, EDL and other far-right British groups. Anyone know what he could be referring to?

  9. Ole A. Imsen

    23 Jul, 2011 - 2:13 pm

    The Norwegian version of the EDL’s rally failed so massively that the EDL cut ties.
    The 2009 “Anti-Israel rally” was pro-Palestinian. The reason Norwegian want to boycot Isreal is because of the settlements (which are illegal according to international law) and because they treat Palestinians as “Untermenchen”.
    Israel is a fascist state. Settlements=lebensraum and they treat Palestinians as “Untermenchen”. The only thing Israel has learned from WWII is acting like the Nazis did.

  10. Mary:

    The ‘freemasonry’ photo probably comes from the facebook page that was created on the 17th of July. Apparently Breivik made both a twitter and facebook page on that day. These would presumably be to leave something for the public/media to find after the event, assuming they were created by the suspect himself.

  11. Ole, i’d wish you took that last sentence back.

  12. Thanks AimHere. Something for posterity I suppose he was thinking. 92 dead now. Poor parents and relatives and the survivors.
    .
    I see that an attempt was made to take out the Norwegian Foreign Minister in Kabul two years ago. He survived but others did not. He sympathises with the Palestinians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Gahr_St%C3%B8re

    This is an unpleasant site too like Geller’s. Who is Ivarfjeld?
    {http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/category/norwegian-view-on-israel/}

  13. Lilian El-Doufani

    23 Jul, 2011 - 3:24 pm

    Thank your for this info. I’ll circulate to my network. Those anti-muslim postings are terrifying.

  14. There is a lesson here.
    One madman can destroy the lives of so many defenceless teenagers and no doubt psychologically devastate their families. The hate comes from many directions:-
    - Hate immigrants
    - Hate Muslims – or – vice versa hate Jews – or – hate Christians – or – Hindus or whoever
    - Hate, hate, hate
    And some people don’t even recongnise the virus exposed in their own hateful words.
    A friend emailed today and said this:-
    “Where did humanity get the idea that our safety on the planet and our relations with other groups on the planet depends on our ability to construct weapons of deterrence and sustain a defence budget?”
    Norway officially seemed to be taking a more rational and just approach to the Palestinian issue and was not going to contribute money to the banks in the Greek crisis. It also is due to cease its involvement with the Libya bombings as of 1st August. No doubt the hate from the right wing led this crazy man to commit these murderous actions as some sort of retaliatory protest.
    Before more information came out – my mind had led me in this direction:-
    “I WAGER THAT THERE WILL BE A MOVE TO BLAME ISLAM AND MUSLIMS FOR THE ATTACKS IN NORWAY. THE SAD TRUTH IS THAT SOME INTERESTS, SO-CALLED “GREAT POWERS” IN THE WORLD THRIVE ON STRIFE, HATRED AND WAR….READ ON….

    If you were in downtown Oslo and a bomb went off it would make you shit scared if it did not already do serious harm to you.
    At this stage I do not know who was behind the blast, but could I put some things in very human perspective?
    A. A religion is insulted by way of certain cartoons published ( qualifier – for my part I don’t see justification in killing a person because someone drew an insulting picture of my God). Decency, however, would suggest to me ( albeit I am not a religious person) that I don’t go around the world mocking those with Judeo-Christian or Muslim or Hindu or any other type of religious belief and belief in their God. Free speech in every country has it limits and boundaries. And human decency suggests that one need not insult, incite or provoke hostilities – when we full well know that provocation, by its very nature, can lead to violence.
    B. A lot of us in the West simply do not consider the dynamics of A above – but, just blame the Muslims and Islamists or the so-called Al Quiada.
    C. A person walking the streets of Tripoli has a right not to be fearful that a bomb will come hurling down on his or her head, home, family or public service facilities relied on and should be able to live in peace. Resolution 1973 permits a no-fly zone. I am not aware that since the passage of the UN resolution there has been any violation of the no-fly zone by the Libyan authorities. Thus, in point of law, one has to question the legality of the bombs being dropped on the Libyan people. Making war by way of what clearly is a war of aggression must be seen as a provocation.
    D. It is not improbable that for reason of the perceptions of some people of the Muslim faith there is a feeling that it is Muslims being attacked by the West in Libya. If this is so, at this stage, one is left to speculate whether or not the terrorist attack in Oslo and the shooting of the youngsters is not a soft target retaliatory strike in response to the terror bombings of the US/NATO in Libya.
    I do not condone the killing of innocent civilians . The Libyans on the streets of Tripoli are as much human as are the persons walking the streets of Oslo. Bombing either set of persons is in actuality – terrorism. There need to be no political gloss on the observation in the previous sentence. This kind of conduct must be condemned. A leader targeted by Western bombing at the leader’s family’s residence in Triopli. A leader in Oslo having his office targeted and destroyed b y a bomb. A family that loses its child or children in Tripoli – a family that loses a young loved one at a youth camp in Oslo. Can we just simply and honestly term all the attacks – terrorism?
    Can we just stop the fucking bombing and killing of innocent people?
    P.S. The following is noteworthy:-
    1. The bombing took place on a public holiday when the government offices were mostly empty. If someone wanted to do mass murder – the attack would have been on a regular working day.
    2. The person who shot down the youngsters was a Norwegian ( i.e. until I see his picture – I am assuming indigenous white person)
    3. There was close timing of the two attacks. This suggests a single source of the co-ordinated attacks. Who? – black ops?
    4. The thrust will be to promote this so called “war on terror”. One attacks a country that does not attack you then expects – what war or peace? War of course – that is how they make the money – by having reasons to make and drop the bombs.”

    Maybe the whole horrible attack can help us all to pause and reflect some about what we are doing in the world with all the hate, the wars, the bombings.
    Some of us at least may come to our senses.

  15. Three quotes, if I may, from Courtenay’s excellent and heartfelt post:
    .

    “Can we just stop the fucking bombing and killing of innocent people?”
    .

    “The thrust will be to promote this so called ‘war on terror’. One attacks a country that does not attack you then expects – what war or peace? War of course – that is how they make the money – by having reasons to make and drop the bombs.”
    .
    “Who? – black ops?”
    .
    Courtenay.
    .
    Yes, on all three counts.

  16. “Those anti-Muslim postings are terrifying.” Lilian El Doufani.
    .
    Indeed, they are shocking. But let’s not be terrified. Let’s kick the buggers up the arse, here, there and everywhere. We are millions. They are nothing. When I say ‘we’, I mean those who oppose imperial war and terrorism from wherever it derives and as we know, often these things derive from the same poisoned fount.
    .
    Message to the buggers: We are not terrified.

  17. Ilan, Ole is right and it has to be said that what once was done to the victims of Dachau is now being replicated in Ghaza, just in a slightly edited form. Are you denying that israel has an Apartheid policy, that it describes all Palestinians as terrorists?

    I hope for your sake that the links with fascists are never proven and that the Norwegian public does not get too angry about the links this man kept, but it should ensure that all the links are examined closely, freemasons or not. Norways public must not let its Government cover up the facts behind this outrageous murder.

    If Pamela Geller does not condemn these vile murders, then she is as guilty as Brevik.
    ‘Did brevik meet Pam Geller in Oslo on the pro Israeli rally?’
    very good question and it will come out somehow.

  18. Screenshot of Atlas Shrugs page, as requested by Craig:
    .
    http://www.killick1.plus.com/atlas-shrugs.png
    .
    HTML excerpt of same, with clickable links:
    .
    http://www.killick1.plus.com/atlas-shrugs-excerpt.html
    .
    They seem quite shameless; they haven’t taken it down.

  19. So this Norwegian freak is a teabagger, albeit a European version. Brilliant. It’s worth remembering where the teabaggers get their inspiration from – Ayn Rand. And she got her inspiration from what she called “The perfect man” – William Hickman. This Hickman was a notorious serial murderer and dismemberer back in the 1920s, and this was the role model promoted in Rand’s more famous books. It was well known at the time Ayn Rand enthused about him, that Hickman had murdered and dismembered a 12 year old girl he’d kidnapped, and extorted money out of her father in ransom, pretending she was still alive. The girl’s body parts were tossed out of his car when her father came to collect her.
    .
    Nevertheless, Ayn Rand worshiped this murderer. His sociopathic qualities had her smitten: “Other people do not exisst for him, and he does not see why they should”, she trilled. Hickman had “no regard whatsoever for all that society holds sacred, and with a consciousness all of his own. He has the true, innate psychology of a Superman. He can never realise and feel ‘other people’. ” This was the character of Howard Roark, hero in Rand’s novel ‘The Fountainhead’. Hickman was, to Rand, a “genuinely beautiful soul”. The full story about Hickman is easily found, but it can be upsetting to read.
    .
    This is the character that teabaggers are supposed to hold as the basis of their belief system, hence their hatred for government, socialised anything (particularly health-care), and sundry other sociopathic ways of thinking. They’re not just a bunch of racist half-wits with misspelled signs, they are a positive force for evil in the world. We ignore them, or treat them as if they had a worthwhile contribution to political debate, at our peril.

  20. I just love this “guilt by association” – attempting to blame the Tea Party movement for this lunatic’s evil actions. It is cowardly and logically incorrect, but since the US press has been trying to blame everything except sunspots on the tea party movement, it’s not surprising.

    The blogger and commenters are either ignorant of the tea party movement, or engaging in vicious slander.

    The Tea Party movement has never encouraged violence. Most Tea Partiers are *not* Ayn Rand acolytes. Most Tea Partiers are not anti-Muslim, but they are anti-Jihadist

    The subject list on the referenced sites are not “anti-Muslim (with the exception of the rape allegation)” – they are anti-jihadist and anti-anti-Semitic. It is a fact that anti-Semitism is on a rapid rise in Europe, and it is a fact that *some* Muslims and Muslim organizations have been engaged in very uncivilized behavior. To point this out is not to incite violence, but to disagree.

    If this “tea party” web site is to blame, why didn’t the killer attack Muslims? Try to explain that?

    I guess in Europe, where folks don’t have constitutional guarantees of free speech, people presenting unpleasant truths, or even lies, are to be suppressed or blamed for the acts of lunatics, even when no violence is ever incited.

  21. Norway is forgotten now on Sky News and BBC News. They are competing to find the most sensational and gossipy commentators on Amy Winehouse who was found dead two hours ago. Pure muck rakers. Guess what the headlines will be tomorrow.

  22. `Iran: Nuclear scientist ‘shot dead’ in Tehran`
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14263126

  23. “Disgusted” above – so the Teabaggers have never advocated violentce, eh? I suppose “resorting to second amendment remedies”, encouraging teabaggers to attend Democratic representatives’ Town Hall meetings *armed*, racism endemic with its members, etc. etc., isn’t meant to be threatening in any way. “Freedomworks” and other front groups for Coche brother agitation set up the teabaggers precisely to appeal to the fear, ignorance and racism at the core of the movement.
    .
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/03/20/87743/code-red-gun/
    .
    Teabaggers are full of talk about armed revolution if laws they don’t like are enforced by government. Spitting on congressmen for not voting the way they like, with mobs thousands strong. The executive director is a white separatist, with a record for assaulting for assaulting a coloured person while using racial slurs. They claim Obama “hates white people” and is a Kenyan/Marxist/Nazi – take your pick. It never stops with these people
    .
    “Don’t retreat, reload!” Palin told her supporters, as the head of the teabagger movement. She’s made her image all about gun ownership and use. Bachman is a dangerous lunatic, who hates gays, Muslims and anyone to the left of Mussolini. Their brand of far-right Christian white power is beyond question.
    .
    Here’s a question for you, “disgusted” – how many Muslims, Blacks or other racial minorities are there among teabaggers? Racist? Violent? Perish the thought!

  24. Some background that seems to contradict some of the earlier comments (including Craig’s) – Norwegian attitudes to immigration (tweeted by Matthew Goodwin via AnnPettifor) http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/00/01/30/innvhold_en/

    Of course Oslo might be untypical – just as London is untypical of Britain.

    Pete

  25. Suhayl,
    Thank you for your kind compliment.
    I wonder whether out of this Norweigian tragedy there cannot be much water found to pour on the war fires around the world.
    I have watched keenly this war unfold in Libya, as I have followed previous wars.
    One of the servants of the Libyan war’s continuation is public opinion in the West. Sadly, we have elected representative goverments that do not represent the true wishes and feelings of the majority. I say that for two reasons relative to the Libyan war. The mainstream Western media ( include not just Fox news, but the New York Times, the BBC, CNN and others) are propoganda servants to the war cause.Service to the oligarchic social order is the the other reason ( I shall return to that).

    One way to gain public support is to publish outright lies. Another, is that one journalist in a big name newspaper runs a line, and others simply quote the original falsehood. All of this has happened in the coverage of the Libyan war. I noted the size of the pro-Gadaffi demonstrations and also noted the spin given by the BBC and others to diminish its implications. Millions marching in the street was not to be deemed as support by the majority of the Libyans for their leader.

    But, the point I am driving at is a link between the recent tragedy in Norway and the bombing of Libya.

    I read years ago where Leonardo Da Vinci had designed flying machines, but shelved them when he weighed the great damage to humans that such devices would do if ever made operative. He had some humanity; our modern humanity, by contrast, has been desensitised, but not totally. We do note that in the Western mainstream media’s reporting there are no Libyan human interest stories. Of course not – the Libyan mother who loses a child in a US/NATO bombing is not a human loss and tragedy to be counted. By contrast, in Norway, the Western media will be full of stories of the human loss and tragedy to the Noweigian mother, the Norweigian father, the Norweigian family. There will simply not be a majority of broad-brush politically motivated journalistic commentaries against ’the enemy’. The Norweigians can safely be projected to the reading Western public as humans – the Libyans cannot, excepet to state that there is an on-going ”humanitarian bombing mission” to save the Libyans from a leader that the majority want. Pro-war sentiments have to be nutured; anti-war sentiments have to be suppressed.

    How do we en mass bring all of us, human beings, back into contact with our common humanity? Do we juxtapose an image of the tears of a Norweigian mother against the tears of a Libyan mother; an Iraqi mother? That would be a very effective front page picture on one of the mainstream mass circulation Western papers. The similarity and commonality of human suffering, grief and loss is very human story that many of us would love to hear. And, wordsmiths and an able journalist could write the prize-winning story that helped to bring us back to our senses. But, it is not going to happen – the Libyan mother is the enemy as is the Iraqi mother. ”They” are not ”us” – so we must distance, differentiate and ultimately mininise the other’s humanity. That is how we in the West asssist the war cause. But, with Norweigians we can safely portray true human grief – ”we” are them – ”they” are ”us” – fellow human beings.

    I am suggesting that there is an actual political and psychological management of the global war agenda. What do I mean?

    George Kennan, the US architect of the cold war made these observations:-

    “It may be true, and I suspect it is, that the mass of people everywhere are normally peace-loving and would accept many restraints and sacrifices in preference to the monstrous calamities of war.”

    And

    “We should cease to talk about vague and unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.”

    And

    “Were the Soviet Union to sink tomorrow under the waters of the ocean, the American military establishment would have to go on, substantially unchanged, until some other adversary could be invented. Anything else would be an unacceptable shock to the American economy.”
    The adversary has to be created in al-quaida – in the Muslims – in the Islamists – in ”them” versus ”us” – so we must first be nurtured, taught and learn how to hate to find justification for the war.
    Someone said this:-
    “Without an enemy image you cannot have an oligarchial society” The video explains http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tx5pbVnDXM
    ( Methinks, like Winston, I am committing thought crimes).
    If we stepped back and considered what we have done over the past decade -from Afghanistan to Libya – we find this. A single man hold up in a cave supposedly orchestrated and masterminded 9/11 – so that provided justification to have carpet bombed an already devastated Afghanistan that had recently concluded a war with the then Soviet Union. In Iraq – I guess the Americans are still in occupation because they can’t leave before they find the WMDs. In Libya we have the perfect example of the Vietnam logic – “It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.” – the justification for the My Lai massacre. Thus, the “humanitarian bombing mission” over Libya.
    We from the West are making wars to save the people who are subjected to Western belligerence. We have a “war on terror” because, as George Kennan correctly observed, “Were the Soviet Union to sink tomorrow under the waters of the ocean, the American military establishment would have to go on…” and it and NATO’s militaries have gone on…and on….and on….and…..
    Peace! And, may we all be hampered by more idealistic slogans for the general good of humankind.

  26. Well said Mr. Barnett. It is a tough matrix to escape, but it is possible. Demilitarisation can occur, without too much economic turmoil, slowly over time. The problem is these sickos are just addicted to the money and power. They don’t want any solutions, even one they knew would be guaranteed to work.

  27. “Rupert Murdoch has a vegetable growing business”.

    Craig, that is no way to refer to readers of Murdoch’s newspapers and viewers of Sky.

  28. PeteB, yes, from what I’ve heard, I think Oslo is untypical in some respects – as, perhaps, are capital cities in general. There is a sizeable Pakistani community of long standing in Oslo, for example. Generally-speaking, community relations are excellent.
    .
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegians_with_Pakistani_background
    .

  29. As you’ll see, they comprise 0.8% of Norway’s population and 3.7% of Oslo’s population.

  30. I’ve tried to add this comment twice already, the first time with two hyperlinks, the second time with only one hyperlink. Before I raise the question of censorship, I will try it with no hyperlinks at all:
    *
    Who said this?
    *
    As the Coalition launches its attack on Libya, ????? says, “It’s not about protecting ‘rebels’ – this is a War for Oil and neo-con colonialism.”
    *
    “It’s madness, utter madness. The Coalition attack on Libya is the beginning of a new and ugly era – the Era of Energy Colonialism and Oil Wars. Cameron and Clegg have conspired with other US/New World Order puppets like Sarkozy to launch an unprovoked and illegal war on a sovereign state. …”
    *
    Answer: Nick Griffin.
    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/attack-libya-%E2%80%93-nick-griffin-slams-puppet-cameron
    *
    So who benefits from Christian, nationalist lone nut mass murder in Norway?
    *
    Seems clear: anti-Christian and anti-war nationalists, and liberal advocates of European genocide by mass immigration:
    *
    http://canspeccy.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-happened-to-white-race-prejudice.html

  31. Thanks for this Clark , another link that FB does not like.

    wellspoken Coutney, the Leviathan must rumble on, must act up to its Monroe doctrine and the project for the 21 st. century, there is a 14 trillion dollar debt reason for it and those bankers do like to get their pound of flesh.

  32. I deleted Sky news off my freeview a long time ago, looks like I am going to have to deleted BBC news as well, don`t watch any BBC programmes these days. Can`t get Russia today on freeview where I live!!!. Even shortwave radio is being closed down station by station!. Looks like the web is the last bastion of free speech/news in the western world…for how much longer will that be allowed ?.

  33. Just checking. Am I barred altogether from this site, or only when I mention certain people or ideas?

  34. Oh, since that went through, I try the post that did not appear a fourth time. Coming up next.

  35. No, that didn’t work either.
    .
    Well if anyone cares, my comment is posted here (see at the end).

  36. It seems that many of us – including myself – is trying to ascribe blame or ‘cui bono’ or behind-the-scenes machinations to groups they don’t agree with/don’t like, etc. That’s fair enough, and one ought to be skeptical in view of all the disinfo surrounding various deaths/massacres, etc., but in this specific respect in this particular case as it stands at present, might we not be guilty of doing exactly what we criticise the MSM for doing? Just a word of caution to myself as muh as to anyone else.

  37. 1st line: ‘are’ not ‘is’ (in case I am thought to be semi-literate!)

  38. Funny how quick people were to blame the Arab world when it’s believed to be Moslem perpetrator but when it turns out to be a Christian fundamentalist (i.e. a non-Jewish Zionist) then he’s just a lone nut.

  39. Norway today is a fanatically Jew-hating, Israel hating socialist/fascist country, I know the Norwegian Royal family are definitely not anti-semites, but these socialist scum are made up of Jew-hating vermin who will do anythinmg not to cause any trouble with their beloved muslim community, who fled their own fanatical islamic states in order to live a dem,ocratic life in the west, why is it that they then vent their filthy rotten Jew-hating animosity towards the tiny Jewish community of Norway, attacking Jewish children, firebombing synagogues, aswell as other jewish communal buildings, and desecrating jewish graves. These vermin are no asset whatsoever to Norway, they are just spongers and their children become radicalized by their islamic preachers of jew-hatred. There is now no future for the jewish community in that stinking country anymore, before the second world war many Norwegians wanted the jews to leave for palestine, when the nazis invadedmany weren’t shy to direct them to the Jews, now these msame norwegians and their descendants want the jews to get out of Israel and see it destroyed for good by arabs who kicked out almost 1,000,000 jews from the arab world in 1948.

  40. Mark, I agree. That is yet another example of Islamophobia.

  41. Clark,”Islamophobia” is just being used in order steal the global resources that Muslim countries possess, it is all a front to try and give credence to the utter criminality of our leaders. Good article here, Jérôme Defaix…
    http://www.leap2020.eu/MAP3-July2011-Contents_a6877.html

  42. Guest, it always cuts both ways. Of course people are afraid of the people they abuse.

  43. Let’s see if I have this right. Someone made a post to a site using a name different from the name that’s been reported in the press. But you are certain this alias is him. And, if it is him, you found he linked to exactly ONE post from Atlas Shrugs. And you use that to smear the entire Tea Party movement?

    Idiotic.

    I guess if I find a post that he’s written in which he links to The New York Times, that means he’s got a connection to The New York Times. And I can infer from that, and create a blog post that strongly insinuates, we ought to see a connection between the left wing ideology that spews from that paper on a daily basis and the commission of mass murder.

    See how stupid that sounds?

    Why not just say that because the sun rose in the east on Saturday he decided to go on a killing rampage?

  44. How accurate are these traffic stats sites? eg Alexa
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/craigmurray.org.uk#
    .
    Readership by country/percentage of site traffic
    United Kingdom 44.3%
    United States 11.5%
    Other 44.4%

  45. Just noticed that those figures add up to 100.2% !!!!!

  46. It’s the 0.2% you have to watch, Mary…

  47. Do we assume that the Tea Party are using Megaphone now? I noticed that Pamela Geller’s video ended with a big Megaphone logo.

  48. Scott
    .
    you write
    .

    ”ONE post from Atlas Shrugs. And you use that to smear the entire Tea Party movement? ”
    .
    Why are you defending Geller?
    .
    ‘So Who Are The Nazis? Meet Atlas’s Thugs’
    .
    http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/03/so-who-are-the-nazis-meet-atlass-thugs/
    .

  49. Clark for those who do not know what Megaphone is, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
    .
    For Megaphone read CAMERA, Hasbara, New Israel Project etc etc.

  50. Ron Paul has some good ideas; I don’t agree with everything he says. Nonetheless…
    .

    I see he’s now hacked-off with the Tea Party, though:
    .
    http://www.digitalmeetingcenter.com/ron-pauls-shocking-message-to-the-tea-party/851883/
    .
    Nothing overtly to do with this Norway massacre, but a relevant point, since we’re talking Tea Party.

  51. ”From Oklahoma City to Oslo, Neo-Cons Blow it Again”
    .
    July 23rd, 2011
    .
    ”Editorial in today’s print edition (subsequently amended but still heavy with insinuations) of the Wall Street Journal: ”
    .
    http://www.lobelog.com/from-oklahoma-city-to-oslo-neo-cons-blow-it-again/
    .

  52. Just reading the BBC main news headlines on the TV. First comes Amy Winehouse, then the Queen’s condolences to Norway, followed by Cameron’s and then Theresa May saying that ‘UK police stand ready to help’. No Theresa, they are far too busy for that because they are answering questions, writing resignation letters, arranging their golden goodbyes, dealing with lawyers on how they will give evidence to the various inquiries and generally faffing.

  53. Andy:

    Work on your reading comprehension skills. I did not defend Pamela Geller or her site Atlas Shrugs. I pointed out how idiotic it is for the author of this blog to link the suspect in the mass murders to the Tea Party simply because the suspect may have once linked to A SINGLE post from Atlas Shrugs in a comment on an internet forum.

    The ONLY reason the author of this blog made that flimsy connection is political. He obviously does not like the politics of the Tea Party so he created this post to smear them. And he sent it out over twitter to stoke left wing hate against the Tea Party. What he has done is despicable.

  54. Glenn Greenwald recommends this article in his Update II today:

    How a clueless “terrorism expert” set media suspicion on Muslims after Oslo horror; Benjamin Docherty; 7/23/11

    http://tinyurl.com/3me5as7

  55. media experts and
    .
    then the “Message Force Multipliers” speak.

  56. A document is circulating that claims to be Anders Behring Breivik’s manifesto, with the filename:

    2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.docx

    It’s very long. At first glance it looks as if it is real.

  57. I do hope that this horrible set of events allows everyone – the MSM, in particular – to come to the conclusion that apart from being dangerous and wrong, jumping to conclusions wrt the perpetrators of terrorist outrages wrt to one or other community just makes those who do that look silly.
    .
    But I know that the MSM will no come to that conclusion – they didn’t eat humble pie, or learn, after the Oklahoma Bombing, when exactly the same (wrong) conclusions were leapt at.

  58. Nike Cohen is scribbling as we speak.
    .
    what’s the going rate for a thousand words of bullshit.

    .

  59. At the very least, even taking this on its surface meaning, it would seem to suggest that the constant propaganda of Islamophobia and asociated Far Right mores has very real effects, that radicalisation in Europe is not something unique to Muslims. Of course, this is blindingly obvious from ‘European’ history. It is interesting that this killer attacked the Norwegian Labour Party, though, rather than specifically Muslims. Perhaps he had a hatred of multiculturalism or tolerance or whatever and blamed the Labour Party for these policies. So, the constant banging-on of a very small minority of the contributors to this blog (and far more widely on the www) in relation to, for example, the supposed purity of Europe/Britain, etc., the use of inappropriately extreme terms such as “genocide” when actully referring to cartel capitalist cheap labour migration, and the entire gamut of other such xenophobic emanations, does run the risk of contributing to an underlying ‘hum’ of propaganda that simply cannot be ignored or excused in the context of this massacre. As Courtney wrote, hate breeds death. I think that these people, who runs websites, etc., whether or not intelligence servive-operated, ought to face this – just as those Muslims – whether or not intelligence service-operated – who constantly talk about ‘jihad’ in terms of killing need to face the potential consequences of their hate-filled rhetoric.

  60. For example, the material allegeldy written by Breivik does not seem all that different from some of the material to which I referred in the pevious post.
    .
    mondoweiss.net/2011/07/the-norway-massacre-and-the-nexus-of-islamophobia-and-right-wing-zionism.html
    .
    here we see the obsesion with th three Ms: ‘Marxists’, ‘Muslims’ and ‘Multiculturalism’, the same drawing of parallels b/w these groups/concepts and the Nazis of WW2 and so on.
    .
    Perhaps, the Norway massacre is the wake-up call in relation to all this nonsense.

  61. Look Scott if you are not happy with Pamela Gellens PR profile on here, please allucidate us to her aims and objectives with regards to Palestine, Scott?

    Would you not agree, Scott, that people like Ms Gellen could give the tea party a bad name, a candidate/liability with such rabid views can not possibly hold a cosmopolitan global view, don’t you think?

    Not that Ms. Bachmann has got anything over her, there must be a nest of them somewhere, who breeds these Palin clones?, they must have all met on the cross roads to oblivion.

    That said, Scott, give us one good reason why we should follow the incessant US presidential schmoozing over here for the candidates of your choice, pal.
    Do you really think you are your own determinant? has something far bigger gotten hold of you?

    tell us!

    Well,, hiiiiiihaaar think again!

  62. Sometimes Craig I find your posts and many of those by your regular commenters insightful and interesting.

    This isn’t one of those times.

    Whilst you’re busy trying to make smear links here, you might want to consult the EU’s statistics on terrorism for 2010:

    https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/te-sat2011.pdf

  63. Glenn above seems to have ingested all the poison the progressives can concoct about the Tea Party… so let’s deconstruct a bit. Of course, his use of the offensive term “Teabaggers” tells us about his objectivity

    “Disgusted” above – so the Teabaggers have never advocated violentce, eh?

    Citation?

    I suppose “resorting to second amendment remedies”,

    Citation?

    encouraging teabaggers to attend Democratic representatives’ Town Hall meetings *armed*,

    Citation?

    racism endemic with its members, etc. etc., isn’t meant to be threatening in any way. “Freedomworks” and other front groups for Coche brother agitation set up the teabaggers precisely to appeal to the fear, ignorance and racism at the core of the movement.

    Racism? I guess you actually believe that BS.
    .
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/03/20/87743/code-red-gun/

    Ah yes, the well made signs where SEIU infiltrated a tea party rally to make it look violent. I think you’re one of the suckers they were targeting.
    .

    Teabaggers are full of talk about armed revolution if laws they don’t like are enforced by government. Spitting on congressmen for not voting the way they like, with mobs thousands strong.

    Cite?

    The executive director is a white separatist, with a record for assaulting for assaulting a coloured person while using racial slurs.

    Executive director? There is no such thing, since the Tea Party is a movement, not an organization. Your ignorance is on full display here.

    “They claim Obama “hates white people” and is a Kenyan/Marxist/Nazi – take your pick. It never stops with these people”
    Yes, some on the right claim that. But you are a typical bigot, stereotyping a very broad and deep movement by using the words of a tiny minority as if it represents the whole movement. Typical progressive lies and propaganda.
    .

    “Don’t retreat, reload!” Palin told her supporters, as the head of the teabagger movement. She’s made her image all about gun ownership and use.

    And your problem with that is? In America, especially in the west, we recognize the value and the danger of guns. Of course, it was people of your ilk that immediately blamed the attack on Gifford on the Tea Party, before it came out that the schizophrenic who did the deed hates conservatives.

    “Bachman is a dangerous lunatic, who hates gays, Muslims and anyone to the left of Mussolini. Their brand of far-right Christian white power is beyond question.”

    Proof, or do you just engage in slander for the hell of it?
    .
    “Here’s a question for you, “disgusted” – how many Muslims, Blacks or other racial minorities are there among teabaggers? Racist? Violent? Perish the thought!”

    Here’s a question for you, idiot: Did you know that the famous picture of the armed Tea Party member at the rally in Phoenix, cropped by the mainstream media, was of an African American tea party member? So much for your ignorant assumptions.

    ……….

    Confusing European right wing nationalism with US nationalism is a sign of true ignorance – European nationalists are much more radical and are often violent.But then, Europe has that glorious history in the last century, so they have history to build on.

    Norway has suffered an incredible tragedy at the hands of a truly evil man. Using that event to target the Tea Party is as despicable as it is inaccurate.

  64. Bless you Courtenay.
    .
    Pamela Geller – Jihad Watch
    .
    ‘Drop an MOAB’{wiki [murder a thousand Palestinian children]

  65. Oh Teabaggers, always the victims. It’s not like Teabaggers posted the private address of Representative Tom Perriello brother encouraging people to ‘drop by’. A day later a gas line was found severed.
    .
    It was Sharron Angle that suggested second amendment remedies.
    lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jun/17/senate-race-armed-revolt-angles-rhetoric-candidate/
    .
    I don’t know why people think Teabaggers are racist, TeaParty.org founder and president Dale Robertson with a sign that said “Congress = Slaveowner, Taxpayer = Niggar”.
    .
    Springboro (Ohio) Tea Party founder Sonny Thomas posted a racial slur on the Springboro Tea Party Twitter webpage he managed “Illegals everywhere today! So many spics makes me feel like a speck. Grrr. Wheres my gun!?”
    .
    Rep. Emanuel Cleaver was spat on and heard people yelling ‘Nigger’ at health care protests.
    heraldnet.com/article/20100320/NEWS02/100329990
    .
    Oh and it was a Teabagger who first used Teabag as a verb, people against Teabaggers found it hilarious and ran with it.
    washingtonindependent.com/31868/scenes-from-the-new-american-tea-party
    .
    But honestly the worst thing about Teabaggers is that they just don’t get it. As made plainly clear in this blog posting. CM made clear in his first comment on this thread what he meant, but Teabaggers keep complaining and misunderstanding his intent. Teabaggers also have some legitimate concerns, however they blame the wrong people and embrace ‘solutions’ that exacerbate the problem even further. Reminds me of the Dylan song, ‘Only a Pawn in Their Game’.

  66. CheebaCow… you can continue to incorrectly stereotype Tea Partiers all you want.

    But ultimately you are lying, even if some the individual facts are true.

    One can take any *large* group of people who have been scrutinized in depth for a couple of years, and find some who will say stupid things. For example, there are plenty of examples of the left calling for violence in the US in the last year – often against Tea Partiers. There was a black Tea Partier who was beaten by SEIU thugs, for example.

    BTW, this one of your “facts” has been *thoroughly* debunked:

    Rep. Emanuel Cleaver was spat on and heard people yelling ‘Nigger’ at health care protests.
    heraldnet.com/article/20100320/NEWS02/100329990

    There were many recordings made of the event where a bunch of democrat representatives attempted to provoke a Tea Party crowd. NONE of them showed that language. If Cleaver had a valid complaint, where’s his video? It’s not like they didn’t try to provoke this behavior.

    I don’t keep track of all the spurious “facts” spread about Tea Partiers (who are NOT Teabaggers) so I won’t comment on all of your anecdotes.

    You don’t have a clue about who tea partiers are and how they think, as is clear from your posting.

    As long as you let your opinions be formed by media that is hostile to the Tea Party, you will continue to be an ignorant dupe.

    So, let’s get back on subject. Please tell me why this vicious European nationalist killer is “linked” to the Tea Party and why anyone should give a damn about such spurious “linkage.” Is the claim that the Tea Party leads people to such behavior? If so, why did it happen in Norway, while in the US where we are armed to the teeth and have plenty of nuts, it didn’t happen?

    No, this posting is nothing but a pathetic and noxious attempt to blame the Tea Party for the act of a classic *European* racist/nationalist.

  67. I don’t believe I am stereotyping, you asked for citations, I gave you some.
    .
    “But ultimately you are lying, even if some the individual facts are true.”
    .
    I love it. Amazing mental gymnastics you engage in.
    .
    “One can take any *large* group of people who have been scrutinized in depth for a couple of years, and find some who will say stupid things.”
    .
    Except most of my references were about leaders in the Teabagger movement. Rep Sharron Angle, TeaParty.org founder and president Dale Robertson and Springboro (Ohio) Tea Party founder Sonny Thomas.
    .
    “There were many recordings made of the event where a bunch of democrat representatives attempted to provoke a Tea Party crowd.”
    .
    Perhaps it is your turn to offer a single citation.
    .
    “If Cleaver had a valid complaint, where’s his video?”
    .
    I dunno, maybe he doesn’t walk around with a video camera in hand at all times.
    .
    “As long as you let your opinions be formed by media that is hostile to the Tea Party”
    .
    Except for Fox News, the highest rating news channel in the US. Oh poor Teabaggers, everyone is against them.
    .
    “No, this posting is nothing but a pathetic and noxious attempt to blame the Tea Party for the act of a classic *European* racist/nationalist.”
    .
    Ok I will spell it out for you. The point of this blog posting was that the ‘linkages’ between Teabaggers and the Norwegian madman are as tenuous as many links used to condemn and jail Muslims. Got it?
    .
    “A South politician preaches to the poor white man
    “You got more than the blacks, don’t complain.
    You’re better than them, you been born with white skin,” they explain.
    And the Negro’s name
    Is used it is plain
    For the politician’s gain
    As he rises to fame
    And the poor white remains
    On the caboose of the train
    But it ain’t him to blame
    He’s only a pawn in their game”

  68. “maybe he doesn’t walk around with a video camera in hand at all times”

    Pretty lame. This event was well documented – you can find it if you look outside the lefty-sphere. The congressmen purposefully went through the middle of a big crowd of Tea Partiers hoping to be insulted. Then they claimed racial harassment to an eager media. In spite of all the media present, the congressmen and all their aides who knew they were being provocative, nobody can show a single video of any racist epithet.

    The whole thing is a lie. You are perpetrating that lie. Put up or shut up.

    Your repeated use of the term teabaggers is obviously an attempt to cause offense. So, enjoy being an offensive twit.

    And if you think Muslims (at least in the US) have been jailed for links this tenuous, you are dreaming.

    It is a *fact* that most acts of terrorism in the world, and in the US and Europe, are carried out by Muslim jihadists. You can deny and hem and haw all you want, but there’s nothing “racist” or whatever about stating that fact. It is a fact that a jihadist group claimed responsibility for this heinous crime – because they thought it was a Muslim who did it and they were so pleased with the deaths of innocents. When they discovered it wasn’t a Muslim, they had to retract their claim.

    It is a fact that freedom of speech in the US, England, Denmark and other countries is in great jeopardy because of the threats from Muslim extremists, threats that polls show are approved of by large percentages of Muslims in the middle east and Europe.

    It is a fact that many Muslims deny most basic rights to women, and are allowed to get away with it by the same lefties who scream to high heaven if a European offers any slight to females.

    It is a fact that anti-Semitism is rising rapidly in Europe, where of all places, people ought to knw better. It is also a fact that anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant sentiment is rising rapidly there – partly due to the governments in Europe letting the more extreme Muslim views gain ascendancy – and that sentiment in Europe is among groups far more dangerous than the American right, where we still believe in due process and democracy.

    It is also a fact that most people recognize that not all Muslims are jihadists, but it is also a fact that many on the left seek to portray the right (“far right”) as being of the same ilk as the jihadists. Nice tactic to use on your ideological enemies, but bigoted stereotyping.

  69. Expert (didn’t get the name) on BBC ‘News’ this morning was asked what connection there might be between events in Norway and global terrorism. He obliged with a new and expanded definition of terrorism which I am sure we can expect to become current. Even if Breivik acted alone (says he) it’s terrorism if he had a declared agenda and/or reason to believe that he had the support of others for his opinions.

  70. Mary: “Norway is forgotten now on Sky News and BBC News.”
    .
    Utter lying bullshit. I’ve just gone to the BBC website and the Norway killings is the top story.
    .
    “They are competing to find the most sensational and gossipy commentators on Amy Winehouse who was found dead two hours ago.”
    .
    I actually didn’t even know this until now. Enough of the compassion, oh compassionate one!
    .
    “Pure muck rakers.”
    .
    A muck raker is someone who clears away muck to reveal the real story. What’s wrong with that?
    .
    “Guess what the headlines will be tomorrow.”
    .
    BBC’s top headline is “Norway gunman ‘defends’ shootings”

  71. Disgusted
    .
    ”It is a *fact* that most acts of terrorism in the world, and in the US and Europe, are carried out by Muslim jihadists.”
    .
    This was obviously the work of the jihads: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/02/omagh-booby-trap-bomb-policeman-killed
    .
    If the police had only assumed this was a crazy Muslim from the beginning, what with the attempted ‘honour killing’, …. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10525738
    .

    Cho Seung-hui was really a deep cover al-Qaeda agent…
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/17/usa.highereducation
    .

  72. ‘Anders Brehing Breivik took part in online discussions with members of the EDL and other anti-Islamic groups’
    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks-utoya-gunman

  73. “Someone more technically proficient than me might want to grab a screenshot before the list vanishes.”
    .
    I’ve mentioned it here before but here it is again. If you’re a Firefox user, there’s an add-on called Zotero. It’s for researchers who need to classify and store references to web sites. It is easy to use and can capture web pages complete with links. It can also extract authors, publishers, citation strings etc. where the pages are structured for this (as they will be on academic sites).
    .
    Off topic, but good: a succinct analysis of why continuing energy growth (and therefore economic growth) is impossible.
    .
    http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/

  74. Disgusted:
    .
    “The congressmen purposefully went through the middle of a big crowd of Tea Partiers hoping to be insulted.”
    .
    If you consider a Congressman walking through a crowd in the United States Capital provocation, you have a mighty low opinion of your fellow Teabaggers.
    .
    “Put up or shut up.”
    .
    I have provided multiple sources for my claims, you have yet to offer one despite my previous request.
    .
    “Your repeated use of the term teabaggers is obviously an attempt to cause offense. So, enjoy being an offensive twit.”
    .
    I’ll admit I do enjoy baiting people, probably a trait learned from my god father. I do find it amusing how incensed Teabaggers get about the term. It’s hardly the worst thing to be called, in fact some people rather enjoy the act. The racism (which the Teabagger leadership engaged in) I cited previously is far more offensive than the Teabagging joke (which as I pointed out earlier, was self inflicted).
    .
    “It is a *fact* that most acts of terrorism in the world, and in the US and Europe, are carried out by Muslim jihadists.”
    .
    A fact eh? Got any kinda source for that? As I pointed out in the Islamophobia thread, according to Interpol, terrorism in the EU between 2006-2010, Islamist terrorism accounts for about .5-1% of attacks in Europe.
    .
    “It is a fact…. It is a fact…. It is a fact”
    .
    Yet not a single source from someone who complains others don’t cite their sources.
    .
    “Nice tactic to use on your ideological enemies, but bigoted stereotyping.”
    .
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

  75. Angry From the time of the discovery of Amy’s body after 4pm, both channels in tandem (do they collude?) switched to coverage of that story. About three hours later they returned to the Norway killings. Sky broke the news first and the BBC followed suit. Do not tell me what I saw and heard with my own eyes. What is your point anyway?
    .
    The religious programme on Radio 4 this morning, Sunday, planted quite a few anti-Islam seeds in the listeners’ minds this morning. A range of topics was covered, a Republican conference in America, a conference at Lambeth Palace where the Anglican and Catholic Archbishops have been discussing the decline of Christianity in the Middle East,etc.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012qmfh#synopsis

  76. Mary,

    You should have been listening to the World Service, you could have heard me pontificate!

  77. Can we listen again Craig? What was the programme? Sometimes they are repeated too.

    My comment to Angry should have ended ‘

  78. ….Do not tell me what I saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. !!

    Boy Hague is on Marr sounding self important and reassuring the Norwegians that they can be assured of our assistance as we have so much experience in these matters. blah blah Completely odious slimeball.

  79. ‘English Defence League members attend New York mosque protest’
    .
    ‘At least seven EDL supporters take part in demonstration after far-right group’s leader is reportedly turned away at airport’ Sept, 2010.
    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/12/english-defence-league-mosque-protest
    .

  80. Max Blumenthal has something to say here:
    .
    ‘Anders Behring Breivik, a perfect product of the Axis of Islamophobia’
    .
    ”When I wrote my analysis last December on the “Axis of Islamophobia,” laying out a new international political network of right-wing ultra-Zionists, Christian evangelicals, Tea Party activists and racist British soccer hooligans, I did not foresee a terrorist like Anders Behring Breivik emerging from the movement’s ranks. At the same time, I am not surprised that he did. The rhetoric of the characters who inspired Breivik, from Pam Geller to Robert Spencer to Daniel Pipes, was so eliminationist in its nature that it was perhaps only a matter of time before someone put words into action.”
    .
    http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/anders-behring-breivik-a-perfect-product-of-the-axis-of-islamophobia/

  81. “Boy Hague is on Marr sounding self important and reassuring the Norwegians that they can be assured of our assistance as we have so much experience in these matters.”
    .
    Yes, but what does he have to say about Amy Winehouse, Mary?

  82. Pete Charles

    24 Jul, 2011 - 9:58 am

    When will I be reading anywhere in the news that these terrorist attacks served Israel?

    This attack came 65 years to the day of the King David Hotel terrorist attacks.

  83. Pete Charles:
    .
    Not exactly airtight evidence.
    .
    youtube.com/watch?v=7tXK5atEuTA

  84. Angry. I switched him off. Cannot stick his politics, his face or his croaky voice. Remember he has joined the list of war criminals now along with Cameron and Fox.

  85. ” ‘I am not surprised that he did. The rhetoric of the characters who inspired Breivik, from Pam Geller to Robert Spencer to Daniel Pipes, was so eliminationist in its nature that it was perhaps only a matter of time before someone put words into action.’ ”
    (Max Blumenthal, via Andy).
    .
    I agree. It’s precisely what I was saying last night.

  86. “Media Reacts to News That Norwegian Terror Suspect Isn’t Muslim”
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/media-reacts-news-norwegian-terror-suspect-isnt-muslim/40322/

  87. From the link I posted above:
    .
    “Additionally, Ibrahim Hewitt writes an editoral at Al-Jazeera, where he observes that once media outlets noted that the suspect was not Muslim, they disassociated connections between the suspect’s beliefs and his alleged violent actions.

    “… the perpetrator was a “blond, blue-eyed Norwegian” with “political traits towards the right, and anti-Muslim views.” Not surprisingly, the man’s intentions were neither linked to these “traits,” nor to his postings on “websites with Christian fundamentalist tendencies.” Any influence “remains to be seen”; echoes of Oklahoma 1995. Interestingly, this criminal is described by one unnamed Norwegian official as a “madman.”

    … Anyone who claims therefore, that the perpetrator’s “right-wing traits” and “anti-Muslim views,” or even links with “Christian fundamentalist” websites are irrelevant is trying to draw a veil over the unacceptable truths of such “traits” and expecting us to believe that right-wing ideology is incapable of prompting someone towards such criminality. Of course, that idea is nonsensical. Right-wing ideology was behind the Holocaust; it has been behind most anti-Semitism and other racism around the world; the notion of Europe’s and Europeans’ racial superiority — giving cultural credibility to the far-right — gave rise to the slave trade and the scramble for Africa leading to untold atrocities against “the Other”; ditto in the Middle and Far East.”

  88. He and one of his step-sisters were raised by his mother alone.

  89. Who was Jimmy?

  90. According to the manifesto supposedly written by Anders Behring Breivik, it states that his mum raised him alone. Jimmy seems to be grasping at straws trying to blame women for all the evils in this world. What % of people who were raised by a single mum have committed mass murder?

  91. Have just come in from cutting hedges, switch on Sky News and lo and behold they are showing excerpts from that disgusting Eurabia video. Intercutting to a Norwegian church service for the slain.
    .
    Some of it is here
    http://www.veoh.com/watch/v21123164bZCBQeZ8
    Absolutely pernicious garbage.

  92. Thansk Dreolin, it is amazing isn’t it how desperately they are trying to disassociate his actions from his influences, actions and believes.

    Norways royals, the PM, the victims and their stories are all told, but Brevigs connections are not reported, ‘he acted alone’, is reapeated over and over again.
    5 youth still missing, presumed dead, not a word on how he was disarmed, did he run out of ammunition? So many open ends.
    This from a person who he worked with and who knew him well on RT.

    “He has an ego, especially in relation to girls,” Andersson said. “He has a picture of himself which was rather inflated, and sometimes it would cause friction if, for example, the fairer sex would prefer other guys working with us, who would be, for example, Pakistanis.”
    http://rt.com/news/norwegian-attacks-suspect-friend-exclusive/

  93. In the light of recent events in Libya, it may be useful to check out Dr Jim Swire’s website.
    http://www.lockerbietruth.com/

  94. Ingo:
    .
    I came across the following account of his capture;
    .
    “A Norwegian news paper published an article containing quotes attributed to Breivik’s lawyer.

    Anders Behring Breivik (32) was executing youths on Utøya for one and half hours until he ‘ran out of ammunition [he was using both handguns and a semi-automatic rifle] and subsequently surrendered to Norwegian special forces late Friday afternoon.

    The man charged with one of the world’s most shocking massacres in recent history has explained to police that he wanted to change Norwegian politics through violence.

    “He’s stated that he went to Utøya [where 700 youths in the age of 15-25 were gathered] to give the Labour party a warning that ‘doomsday would be imminent’ unless the party changed its policies,” said Geir Lippestad, the man’s defense attorney.”
    blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Oslo-Bombing

  95. Thanks Cheebacow, just as I thought, he would have carried on with his killing spree.

    Another point, I think his life is in danger, because once he starts spilling the beans on his connections, those who are trying their best to spin more anti islamic fervour might want him out of the way.

    Has he ever travelled abroad, had some training on bomb making, etc., who has he met, he surely does not come over as a mad man of psychopath, but as a calm and collected assassin, a cold blooded killer who could have been programmed to do this.
    It is also almost certain that the previous days march in support of the Palestinian cause, no doubt playing on the news, showing the march, the speech given afterwards to the youth by officials in support of Norways foreign policy stance on israel, maybe even interviews with some of the youth, that all this was an instigator to his massacre.

    there, stuck my neck out now.

  96. As is obvious from my spate of posts, I have been holed up the last few days in a hotel room with cable news on and browsing the web. It seems the attack was long planned.
    .
    “”He admitted responsibility,” Behring Breivik’s lawyer Geir Lippestad told Norway’s NRK television channel.
    .
    “He explained that it was cruel but that he had to go through with these acts,” Lippestad said, adding that the attacks were “apparently planned over a long period of time”.
    .
    A rambling 1500-page tract apparently written by Behring Breivik said he has been preparing the “martyrdom operation” since at least autumn 2009.”
    news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/norways-breivik-planned-carnage-lawyer-20110724-1hupt.html?skin=text-only
    .
    Isn’t the whole calm collected think totally in-line with a psychopath, they have 0 empathy with others and view people merely as tools/obstacles.

  97. For a long time, William Hague, a man with a decent level of intellect, has had Churchillian pretensions – much as many Democrat Presidential candidates in the Primaries in the USA try, in some way, to mimic JFK. Hague-as-Winston seemed to work… until he put on that baseball cap. Then he became ‘the foetus’. And that was that: From Churchill to embyro in one fell swoop! He may still, though, one day be PM.
    .
    Hague’s voice seems to me to be a Northern version of ‘a very British Librium’ (much as, during his tenure in the early 1980s as Chancellor of the Exchequer, Geoffrey Howe became known as ‘Mogadon man’). Hague tries always to reassure with a feigned level-headed common sense. His voice says: “I am daddy. Listen to me.”
    .
    I say: “Oi! Get lost, embryo!”

  98. CheebaCow: Time to order Room Service! But watch out – the waiters may be more than they seem.
    .
    Joke.

  99. Journalist Ketil Stensrud tweets: “Breivik’s attorney has, in a radio interview with NRK, confirmed that his client belongs to an international network of right-wing extremists. He’s planned his actions for a long time, and has requested the hearing on Monday to be open for world media, so that he can ‘reveal all’. Strong suspicion of OSL/Utøya operation being funded by intnl n.work.”

    http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Norway

    The true connections are slowly treacling out

  100. Just a thought:

    Maybe the bombings in Oslo were organised by his neocon handlers, hence the original knee-jerk reaction in the media, but the killings on the island were his own initiative – by which he exposed the “wrong” people?

  101. Maybe you could put Hague up for adoption once he has fully developed. But who would want him? (I had a funnier joke about abortion but considering the thread thought it perhaps a little tasteless).
    .
    As it happens I am just stepping out for food =P

  102. “According to the manifesto supposedly written by Anders Behring Breivik, it states that his mum raised him alone.”
    .
    Oh, for god’s sake, ‘ammunition’ for Jimmy, no doubt …
    .
    “Thansk Dreolin, it is amazing isn’t it how desperately they are trying to disassociate his actions from his influences, actions and believes.”
    .
    Yes, Ingo, that’s the flavour I’m getting from a skite around right-wing blogs (incuding Teabaggers) in the USA.
    By the way, I don’t know if anyone has already posted this, but Breivik tried to set up a Norwegian Tea Party movement.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
    .
    “A rambling 1500-page tract apparently written by Behring Breivik said he has been preparing the “martyrdom operation” since at least autumn 2009″
    .
    Tim Marshall (Sky) said that Breivik surrendered willingly because he wants to explain himself. Which includes, apparently, the fact that he sees his attacks as a first step in a Europe-wide revolution against multiculturalism.
    So he massacres 85+ teenagers? Wouldn’t he have been better off trying to recruit teenagers to his anti-immigration cause? What has he inspired now only revulsion – against himself?
    .
    The ego and lack of empathy are typically sociopathic – something CheebaCow also mentions.
    .
    Where did Hague get that voice? It sounds like it’s coming out of his boots. More gravel than gravitas, methinks.

  103. Tea! My kingdom for a cup of tea!

  104. Ole’s last sentence is right on.

  105. I just came across a film supposedly made by Breivik, a companion piece to the 1500 page manifesto. It’s amazingly deluded. The video states that the ‘international network’ he was a part of is a re-founded ‘Knights Templar’. The video is nothing but hate, yet claims to be against hate ideologies.
    liveleak.com/view?i=093_1311453213
    .
    Norwegian seems to verify the authenticity.
    tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/gjerningsmannen-la-ut-video-og-manifest-paa-nettet-3545104.html

  106. Dreoilin, coming right up! ‘White tea’, Chinese, very light, no milk, clears the mind. Secret source, they say. Good for a warm, sunny day.

  107. I can smell the tea, any left? half a sugar for me please Suhayl.

    Looking at what Al Jazeera is reporting on this rightwing fundamentalist massacre and comparing their indebts first reports to those by the BBC, I have to say the latter has not much to offer.
    Good article by Ibrahim Hewitt here, showing clearly that most terro attacks, anti semitismn and racismn eminates from the rightwing nationalist spectrum.
    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201172482841769458.html

  108. Dick the Prick

    24 Jul, 2011 - 6:12 pm

    Seriously Craig? He was a fucking nutter – could have been linked to Georgette Heyer and he’d still be a fucked up loon.

  109. Dick the prick, heard an emminent professor piece of mind on todays six oclock news, he says that Brevik does not show the signs of being a mentally challenged or deranged individuals, his planning was calculated and his execution ot the murders was cold blooded and calm. To make out that he is a madman, I myslef used the term, is wrong at this point in time.

    This label is all too often thrown at rightwing terrorists for the convenienace of gettign them out of the limelight.
    Remember Denis Michael Rohan, the Australian Christian who set fire to the Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, he was equally dismissed as a ‘madman’ and that was the end of the story, buried.

  110. Catherine Jackson

    24 Jul, 2011 - 9:12 pm

    Why is it that when a white person does such a thing he is called “crazy”, but when anyone darker than tan does this he is a terrorist? Yet again elevating certain humans above others based on the color of their skin.

  111. hmmm sky news promoting the terrorists fascist message against muslims .
    .
    maybe there is more to this and the edl.

  112. Wendy, The EDL may be an MI5 front operation:
    .

    Some of the ‘anti-fascist’ groups may also be MI5 fronts (there have been persistent allegations over many years about ‘Searchlight’, for example). On wonders whether a number of the more extreme Islamist and ‘Green’ organisations are MI5 fronts, too. Some of the Green ones may be – and indeed have been – specific industry corporate fronts to instill chaos into those who oppose them.
    .
    Anything, you see, to divide and rule, to fractionate, to split along whichever tribal lines are available, and so render impotent, opposition to the hegemony. That, of course, is the security and intelligence services’, and Special Branch’s, primary aim (and not to fight organised crime and stop terrorists, etc.; indeed, they are systemically in bed with – you might say, are ‘married to’ – both!).

  113. Michael White

    24 Jul, 2011 - 11:12 pm

    I was wondering how long it would take before someone attempts to capitalize on these tragic events to prove some political point. I said two days before the left begins blaming Palin, but it in your case it was one.

    He was also a Freemason, and belonged to organizations that had anarchist views a goals.

    It says a lot about your character, Craig, that in the wake of the mass murders of 91 people you can’t wait two day before trying to politicize it.

  114. Brother from Another Planet

    24 Jul, 2011 - 11:45 pm

    Greetings from one of your brothers,

    My brothers and sisters have been watching you human off spring for a very long time.
    Some of us came to you and saw how they could take over your weak mines. You were in the infancy of your growth towards a higher state. But these who agreed to corrupt you with knowledge never made for you came and did break our laws.
    In time you these who disobeyed had shown you weapons of War and reading,writing and math. They created strife amongst you and a belief that there are difference’s among your kind. they ruled with Iron fists and you desired the same.

    When our Watchers came before our King, they brought back the report of what they had done. Once these Rebel’s learned of the knowledge that they had been found out, they pleaded for forgiveness, but we found none sincere and all corrupt in their war. They had corrupted what we had built by decree of our King for Human kind to attain to be even greater then we.

    So, thus started their demise. The children they had reared from the flesh of your women were lost to ever having a true fleshly body and cursed by our King to never die but to roam this world as Evil Spirits testing man. At this time all of mankind was destroyed and given another chance at life on your planet once again.

    But to our dismay our King didn’t rid your world of these who roam the Air you breath. These entities desire to have flesh to live in.

    Your parents of old remained wanting and memories of past knowledge continued to be explored with the help of these who whispered into you ears the desires they heard from your constant chatter. Humans grew wiser in ways of War, with each and every new War came more Technologies to the point where Murder was a constant on your very weak willed minds.

    You never progressed as planned and thus we sent another to teach you to LOVE and not HATE. To share with one another and have no one in want.
    AS a Covetous Race, you took His life, for His Ways being our Ways were not the way you wished, for you enjoyed the comforts afforded to you and not to others.

    Wars continued and technology increased and this to you was more important then what is important for you to gain a higher state of being. With you ever increasing knowledge you have lowered yourself back to prime evil Human beings with nothing but loathing for one another.

    The needs of the Few are greater then the needs of the many.

    Your Race enjoys Death of your fellow beings. Race has taken different views of others stating your exclusive rights to a God that is owned by no-one. But yet you insist that this God is on your side. Yet your very wrong.
    The God of Murder and suffering is your God.

    Our King wishes not for this Race to be as it is.
    You have listened to Demons and doctrines of demons. You have believed the lies of those that have allowed to possess their Flesh. You have put them, these lowest of your kind over you. You have taken what was created for your well being and cannibalized all that your hands have touched, with thoughts that your way is better then any other.
    You have taught yourself that the hand is not part of the body and can survive without the body, but you are so wrong in your thoughts.
    Your thoughts come from Covetousness.

    You wonder if there are other entities, and why have they not revealed themselves to you?

    I have come to give you the answer all of Human kind by know should of seen.

    If you could only of risen higher in your beings that you were made for you to would be able to see what we who have acended higher have seen.

    The majority of you have become pretentious in your mind of being greater then your brothers and sisters.
    There is a Way given you, but you prefer not to bring this about. You prefer to think more for oneself then for the whole.

    This is why you will not be given another chance other then destruction in more ways then Man has ever seen.

    There is an entity greater then thou.

    Please look all around and see your own self injustices and stop yourself from the edge of the abyss for your Watchers are being removed from having these demons in the ultimate release upon you.
    Your World is about to be shaken to Death by these very same demon entities.
    Your Gold and Silver and hiding places will not save you. You have listened and learned from Doctrines of Hate and Murder and now you are about to suffer in the Bed you have made.
    There will be no peace and safety from the storm on your horizon.
    Watchers hold your world together, these who have, are leaving your Planet as I speak to you now.

    We look upon it now as not a Blessed Earth, but as a Forbidden Planet.

    When we come, it will be to clean your planet from all the scum you have permitted to cannibalize what was once what you had called the Garden of Eden.
    Yes, you have pushed yourself to the Abyss.

    So, there is a reason why you have not met your fellow beings.
    The reason being, you would of killed us if possible.

    You are now in a hopeless state.

    Your Covetousness has done you in. All your self inflicted wounds are from this.

    You have Pushed, pushed, pushed into the wrong way of being.

    I feel sorry for you all, for you will not rid your Planet yourselves of these Evils.

  115. This guy is too similar to the man who shot Congresswoman Giffords. Same MO as the Oklahoma City bomber. I agree with some of you, your point-that he had handlers. It’s a classic case of M K Ultra Mind Control/Monarch Butterfly. Programmed to massacre, but why? That is the question that needs to be answered. The handlers are the psychopaths/sociopaths. And just like the massacre in Tucson, there will be a news blackout to squash the truth. With the M K Ultra, perfected by the Nazi’s, the end result was to victimize and mind control blonde/blue eyed whites to create a master race. ???? That is insanity. But the mind control has branched out to all humans, not just the blonde/blue eyed. Check out The Trance-formation of America website. And if you have been paying attention, Sarah Palin herself said a few months ago that Obama’s plan was the “transformation of America…” When I heard her say this, it was an “Ah Ha!” moment. She slipped up and revealed herself, and verified what I sensed all along as to what was wrong with her. Another mind control victim. They are not hard to spot, once you’ve done the research on the mind control. They are everywhere, most of them in politics. Mind controlled puppets on strings.

  116. Brother From Another Planet

  117. Brother From Another Planet: I am familiar with the Watchers you speak of. And yes, many of them have left for the very reasons you mentioned. But my hope is with the good people of this planet, and there are many. Most of the Star Brothers and Sisters do not agree with your words. Yes, we’ve made a tremendous mess on this planet. And yes, it is up to us to rid this planet of all the evil that is here. But it starts on an individual basis, in each heart, mind and soul. That is where the growth needs to begin, and it has. But this earth will not be destroyed. If you were one of those spiritually advanced Star Brothers, you would not have written the words that you wrote. So my conclusion is that you are a cabal operative, because the people from the Stars communicate with unconditional love. They do not wish for, nor convey or respond with death and destruction. That is a cabal trait, not a trait of a Star Brother or Sister.

  118. How to destroy the Earth:
    .
    http://qntm.org/destroy

  119. Oh gawd, it’s Trekky and June.

  120. Jonangus Mackay

    25 Jul, 2011 - 7:12 am

    One headline we’ve yet to see:

    ‘Oslo terrorist told English Defence League: “Take out a nuclear power station.”‘

    Quite clear from his 1,500-page DIY manual/manifesto that the ‘Justiciar Knight Commander’ regards the EDF as milk sops.

    He writes that the KT [Knights Templars] ‘view the EDL as naïve fools.’

    ‘ . . . the only meaningful resistance at this point in time is to use military force. So instead of monkey-screaming, they should instead focus on strategically demolishing one of the many British nuclear power plants, which effectively would completely cripple the British economy.’

  121. “It says a lot about your character, Craig, that in the wake of the mass murders of 91 people you can’t wait two day before trying to politicize it.” Michale White.
    .
    Well, the alleged perpetrator seems very clearly to have told the Norwegian police that he did it for political reasons – to change Norwegian policy wrt multiculturalism and immigration, etc. and that this was why he attacked solely the Labour Party in Norway. Michael, it IS political. It’s not a question of capitalising on it. It’s there. The alleged perpetrator created the ‘capital’. To have ignored this central, political, aspect right from the start would be an intensely political act and arguably would demonstrate disrespect for the victims – precisely what you seem to be accusing Craig Murray of doing/being. How interesting.

  122. ‘…would have been’, that should have read.
    .

  123. That isn’t ‘Sir’ Michael White of Garudian fame is it? Sadly all that brown nosing around NuLabour didn’t pay off and the knighthood never arrived.

  124. Jonangus Mackay

    25 Jul, 2011 - 7:30 am

    PS:
    .
    Breivik also writes: ‘I used to have more than 600 EDL members as Facebook friends and have spoken with tens of EDL members and leaders.’
    .
    He says that in 2002 — ‘in the very beginning’ —he supplied the EDL with ‘processed ideological material (including rhetorical strategies).’
    .

  125. Furthermore, Michale, the UK and US MSM treated this act as political while it was occurring and thereafter, attributing it initially and erroneously to Muslims. They, not Craig, made it political in the public sphere, Michael. Craig reacted – correctly, as it turned out – to clarify this approach as the knee-jerk prejudice and/or misinformation it was.

  126. This is a recommendation from a friend who works in a university IT dep. Should you have a ‘lost’ document, or something that was in a place and is no more because it has been spirited away, then there is a place that backs up some 160 billion web pages. As long as you have the url, you can try and find it with this, very handy.
    http://wayback.archive.org/web/

  127. Thanks nomorewarforIsrael, Gilad Atzmon makes some very valid points and links.
    This article has taken the immense false reaction over this massacre into account, a world at hate more than in love.
    Could this have been a prelude, a psychological positioning before a much bigger calamity is to happen? Is this designed to confuse and galvanise us into black and white camps, defined by those who perpetuate the status quo? Are we being slowly cooked to be ready for what is to come, another world shattering calamity to focus our minds on war?

    food for thought http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/07/201172311813947475.html

  128. I don’t care if the murdeiring swine was linked to the ‘tea-party’ or not, all I know is that Norway today has become one of the worst Jew-hating countries in europe. Jewish kids and teenagers are attacked by muslim thugs, Synagogues are torched, jewish graves are desecrated, elderly Jewish people are refused taxi-rides by Muslim taxi-drivers to a synagogue in Oslo. Life has certainly changed for the tiny jewish community of Norway & shrinking all the time, because of fear. The government doesn’t seem to care about protecting the vulnerable jewish community, as they are worried that they may invoke even more trouble from the Islamic community. many of these jews have already re-located to Israel or other less troublesome countries where they can live in security and peace away from their persecutors. It’s ok for muslims to demonstrate their solidarity for Islamic countries, but if jews demonstrate their solidarity for israel they are spat upn, attacked threatened with violence from the islamic community of Norway. I am one of those jews who’s family fled our homeland in the arab world with just the shirts on our backs, all our real-estate, savings, bank accounts, personal property was stolen from us, We numbered 1,000,000 in 1948, today barely 6,000 jews remain in the arab world, mainly residing in morocco and tunisia. (Not including Iran & Turkey)

  129. Jonangus Mackay

    25 Jul, 2011 - 10:06 am

  130. samir have you been offered $10.000 for moving to Palestine, as offered and rejected by some 40.000 of Irans jews who seem to have their religious freedoms guaranteed in the Iranian constitution?

    Do you think that a pssible attack on Iran would spare these souls, or will they just have been written of to faith?

    Why do you accuse Norways islamic populus, those who were showing their grief as much as others yesterday? why single out the islamic community with more hate, when it is all of Norway that is boycotting Israel for its inhumanity shown to Palestinians?
    far from playing the violine here, try and find the reasons to your twisted queries in the West bank , east Jerusalem and in Ghaza, you could also look at the violations to international laws of the sea if you so wish.

  131. The same Samir?
    Samir S. Halabi on August 31, 2010 at 4:16 am
    .
    I understand that Finland is a far safer country for jews to live, than that of Sweden or Norway.
    It is shameful that an old established Jewish community living in Sweden for over 250 years found it necessary to uproot themselves and get the hell out of Islamofacist Sweden, why hasn’t the government done anything to curb those barbaric monstocities, and bring order and sanity once again to Sweden. What has been the contribution made to the welfare of Sweden from the immigrant muslims, many of them just live on welfare handed out to them by the Swedish authorities, If they don’t conform to Swedish law they should be turfed out of the country and sent packing to wherever they originated from. Why should the Swedish Jewish community have to suffer Jew-hatred attacks and living in fear of these scum, what hve the jewish community done to deserve this scourge which has fallen upon them by these hateful-beings.
    .
    Comment on http://www.israelwhat.com/2010/01/28/jews-leave-malmo-sweden/

  132. Samir, this must give you some idea of how Christians in the Holy Land feel about being driven from their country by the brutal Jewish occupation. Anyone in solidarity with the evil Israeli entity cannot expect too much respect, though some of the hatred you describe is inexcusable.

  133. You seem to forget that there are around 1.5 Billion muslims worldwide and only 14 million jews in the world. We the Jews of the arab world lost 10 times more than the arab refugees of the former BVritish Mandate4 of Palestine. We the jews of the arab world outnumbered the arab refugees of palestine by almost two to one. The real real-estate that we owned was almost five times more than the whole of Israel today. What you have just stated is tantamount to agreeing with the agression against the very small jewish community of Norway. The arabs residents of the british Mandate of palestine never considere4d themselves as palestinian, they olyn identified Palestinian with the jews of palestine. Palestine was since the Roman times ruled by the powers of the day whether it Be Saladdin the Kurd, Seleucids, Crusaders, Ottomans, and finally the British. Only when the jews started to come in numbers did the arabs show any interest, and only because palestine in the late 1920s and 30s was a much better place for them to live coming from all parts of the middle east, as the jews worked hard on the land, and created a better life, Medical treatment ie.
    and work for those arabs that came to palestine many clandestinely to earn a better living. never once was Jerusalem seen as the arab capital, never once was there a arab palestinan King with the capital in jerusalem. The arabs in palestine always faced Mecca and had their backs towards Jerusalem. Today over 60% out of 7,000,000 of Israel’s total population are families and their descendants from the Arab world. Therefore today there 1.4 million arabs who hold israeli nationality who grew from the original 130,000 arabs who decided to say in the newly crated state of israel in 1948, and the remainder are of the european jews and their descendants. The jews of Norway should in no way experience any discrimination and attacks from the muslims, they are norwegians and not israelis. You have infact stamped your approval of what the(although not all)muslim community have endorsed ie. beating up of innocent Norwegian jewish citizens, Muslim taxi-drivers refusing fares to elderly jews on their way to a synagogue, desecrating jewish graves, firebombing synagogues. For what you have stated you should now be interrogated by the norwegian special services, what you have stated is tantamount to endorsing every nasty thing which has ohappened to these unfortunate Norwegian jews, many of them holocaust survivors. So it’s ok for muslims to demostrate against israel, but not ok. for jews to demonstrate peacefully for israel. You want to see israel destroyed, however it is you who should be investigated for stamping your approval on the hatred directed against the Norwegian jews.

  134. Wait, so he links to Tea Party sites, and this makes the Tea Party evil.

    If I am not mistaken, Al Qaeda kills in the name of Islam, so does this make all of Islam evil?

    The list goes on of people who have killed in the name of a religion or creed, does that make all of those religions or creeds evil?

  135. Samir S. Halabi, I am shocked by your account of violence and intimidation against Jews in Norway and Sweden. I had no idea that this was occurring. I condemn it utterly, as I condemn all such abuse.
    .
    I was very surprised by your figure of 14 million Jews worldwide. I had no idea that Jews were such a small minority. This is probably because the secondary school I attended had about 10% Jewish pupils, so of course it seemed to me that Jews were very numerous. At that school, I never once knew of anyone victimised for being Jewish.
    .
    I am appalled by the behaviour of the modern state of Israel. The history may explain, but it cannot excuse. The demolition of homes, the eviction of Palestinians to build settlements, and the siege of Gaza are gross injustices. Operation Cast Lead and the executions aboard the Mavi Marmarma were atrocities.
    .
    Consequently it seems to me that even peaceful demonstrations in support of Israel are problematic; they are bound to lead to anger from some of the people who oppose Israel’s policies.
    .
    I hope that a peaceful solution to these problems can be found.

  136. Samir, hello. Thank you for your very important and valued perpective. I wasn’t aware of the situation in Norway you describe, so it’s good to learn.
    .
    But you do seem to attribute all these negative facets to an entire community – i.e. (I paraphrase) ‘spongers, scroungers, vicious thugs, bigots’, etc. It’s almost like a Daily Mail (UK tabloid) sub-headline. I’m not sure that would be an accurate or fair characterisation of all Muslim people in Norway. There are actually relatively few Muslims in Norway, as a proportion of the general population, compared even to, say, the UK or Germany or France. There is a sizeable Pakistani community in Oslo, as you will know. Many of these people are very well integrated indeed. I know some. Now, if there are taxi-drivers who are refusing to carry ‘fares’ of any specific religious of ethnic groups, that is heinous and needs to be prosecuted in law. It would be, in the UK. If there are people attacking synagogues, that needs to be deal with by the police; if that is not happerning, then that is wrong.
    .
    Furthermore, I would ask you to remember that this atrocity was committed by a white, Far Right non-Muslim person, yet you seem mostly to be directing your ire largely at the Muslims of Norway. Would it not be more appropriate for you at this time to be worried about the Far Right? They are only (newly) pro-Israel right now because it suits their purposes, but they are viscerally anti-Semitic and would dispense with these pretenses if ever thay acquired any sort of power again. They are not your friends, Samir. I’ve seen Jewish cemteries desecrated in Eastern Europe; this was done by locals; these are places where there are no Muslims living, little villages and so on. It’s not say anti-Semitism is not now a problem in some Muslims poeple – it is. But I am concerned that some people are aseeking any means of demonising Muslim people in Europe, even when actually they had no part in this awful massacre.
    .
    I have no wish to ‘destroy Israel’, btw and am aware that the majority of Israelis are now of Mizrahi/Sephardic, etc. origin and I am also aware of the discrimination against these people by ruling groups within Israel, esp. historically. I am aware too of the situation in 1940s Iraq. This is all really another discussion, though, one worth having for sure, but not really directly relevant to the massacres in Norway.
    .

    Btw, have you read Ariel Sabar’s (originally, ‘Sabagh’) excellent memoir, ‘My Father’s Paradise’? I wiuld recomend it. It may ring some bells with you.
    .
    All good wishes.

  137. Calling all members of the Arizona youth section of the Tea Party. You are invited to a shooting camp.
    http://arizonateaparty.ning.com/events/youth-718-summer-shooting-camp-1

    btw Glenn Beck that master of rational thought processes has compared the gathering of the young Labour party memmbers on the Norwegian island to a gathering of Hitler’s Nazi Youth.

    Suhayl I understood that the predominant origin of Jews in Israel was now Ashkenazi due to emigration from Russia into the settlements.

  138. BobBarker555

    26 Jul, 2011 - 3:54 pm

    The shooter was an Israel-firster, a neo-con, not a TEA party member. Israel-firsters are the Bush regime, Sean Hannity/Rush Limbaugh folks. The idiots that watch Fox news.

    Breivik stated in his manifesto that he was in support of communism, and that he supported a NAZI style state in which only Whites, and Jews were welcome in the society. He was also a supporter of the Iraq war, and the “War on Terror”.

    Israel-firsters are dangerous people.

  139. BoBBarker555

    26 Jul, 2011 - 3:59 pm

    dreoilin, you think its somehow illegal to grow food? Are you insane?

  140. This is a very simplistic an polarizing piece. There are nut-cases everywhere and they do not necessarily represent the values of a general movement. If you would have reviewed the perspectives of the godfather of the Tea Party, Dr. Ron Paul, you would have had a hard time to even write a headline like this.

    I can agree with your last paragraph (minus the general Tea Party branding), but perhaps you should have added: Breivik was a useful puppet for the illuminati/freemason/banksters who with the help of the NATO/US military industrial complex are currently hard at work in the world playing their age-old and violent divide and conquer games. As a former diplomat, I would have expected better from you than to add fuel on that crazy fire.

  141. I think you’ve broken open a big secret the tea party doesn’t want expose! Guilt by indirect association!

    Now let us all be good little classic Democrats and have all the tea partiers indefinitely locked up until the “threat” is over. I mean, it worked so well when Democrats unlawfully detained African slaves (and worse) on a whim during the 1800s. It worked for Democrats when they detained/interned Japanese, Italian and German-Americans during World War 2!

    I mean, the United States of America hasn’t seen enough hatred of their fellow man in their history. We haven’t seen enough curtailing-of-rights either! So let us ramp it up and liberally detain millions, ostracize and scapegoat them because of some nutjob across the ocean!

  142. @Jon
    .
    Heh, a bit awkward that another Jon is using the same handle as me! I’m mod Jon, but sign as I do here. I guess people will know that you’re not me as I’m not quite as keen as you on exclamation marks ;)
    .
    I think it would be a mistake to assume that Craig is a supporter of the Democrats because he’s written a piece criticising the Tea Party movement. I am sure both main parties in the US have plenty of skeletons in their closet when it comes to illegal detention – and of course both parties can take a share of the blame for the obscenity of Guantanamo Bay.
    .
    I don’t believe anyone is suggesting that Tea Party membership should become a jailable offence, either. I certainly don’t think that – people should be able to espouse whatever political views they like. However, anyone who hears a political view also has a right to respond to it, whether or not the response is acceptable to the original speaker. So, the premise of the discussion is that some parts of US right wing deliberately employ inflammatory race-based and anti-immigration rhetoric to whip up divisive sentiment. This premise is similar to the suggestion that much the same political groupings were excessively using militarist and gun imagery, and that was felt by some to be a contributory factor in the Giffords shooting.
    .
    I agree that the whole of a movement shouldn’t be discredited by the actions of one person. But a movement must be defined by its stars and its spokespeople – Geller in this case – since people would leave if they no longer signed up to it. I can’t help but feel that the criticism is justified for this reason.
    .
    @Rene, that’s interesting about Ron Paul – I didn’t know that. Do you know whether he has commented on the direction the Tea Party has taken? Or, indeed, whether there are any groupings within the movement that are unhappy about racist elements amongst the leadership?

  143. The Norway Killer was the work of a mad man full of hate. To link this to a political movement in another country is ludicrous. The U.S.A. Tea party movement is a grass root movement that has nothing to do with anti-Muslim or Norway. It is about about addressing the US government to lessen their taxation, to limit their government spending, and to have the government uphold our contituional rights as its people. I just don’t see how this is correlated to a disturbed man in Norway.

  144. You people are so mis-informed it is comical really. Go to the website http://www.teapartypatriots.org

    This is what I found:
    Tea Party Patriots Mission Statement and Core Values

    Mission Statement
    The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.

    Core Values
    •Fiscal Responsibility
    •Constitutionally Limited Government
    •Free Markets

    SO PLEASE TELL ME where this anti-muslim police is?

  145. @ Shannon,

    You say:-

    “You people are so mis-informed it is comical really.”

    On a personal level, many of those I know what are Tea Party supporters, members or sympathisers, convey to me the following traits:-

    1. A very strong inclination to dislike for President Obama – not on political and/or ideological grounds – but because of the colour of his skin.

    2. The ideas about the size of government and the fundamentals of the US and US related integrarion into a global economy – in the Tea Party information I have read simply does not begin to comprehend or address the complexities. There is a lot of standard right-wing slogans ( maybe some in your post) and not quite enough rigorous analysis – of what is really a very challenging set of options and choices for the US and the world economy.

    3. Why a dim whit like Sarah Palin is placed forward as an “intellectual” represenative for Tea Party values – can any reasoned, informed or rational person take the movement seriously – save in its potential to raise and excite latent racist feelings; reduce economic analysis to the simplistic and ridiculos; and – sloganise all the way to the polls.

    I need from the Tea Party – ideas, analysis, a detailed grasp of the complexities of the US economy such as it is – and not the latent racism – not the trivia posing as economic analysiis – not the hype by way of an appeal to scared persons who find themselves without jobs and caught in the vortex of an economy in crisis.

    Prove me wrong – present those ideas and responses I have asked for – and prove to us all that it really is not the Tea Party that is misinformed and misguided.

  146. @Shamrock, @Shannon – thanks for your input. I agree with you that anti-Islamic sentiment is not likely to form a written statement of principles of the Tea Party movement. But there are a couple of points that are probably worth expanding on.
    .
    Firstly, within any political grouping, there is a range of views, and not everyone agrees with everything. The British Labour party comprises of socialists on the left, who believe in a reformist path to the end of capitalism, via middle-of-the-road union supporters, right across to anti-union and pro-war members. Similarly the British Conservative party has people on the left, who believe in “kind conservatism” and who are pro-European, and also includes aggressive anti-immigration, anti-European members who entertain some pretty xenophobic ideas. So, my view is that most groupings are a pretty broad church.
    .
    With that in mind, there are probably some libertarians in the Tea Party movement who are solely concerned with reducing the size of the US state, encouraging entrepreneurialism and free enterprise, reducing taxes and the welfare state. Some of these folks may be quite pro-immigration, since border controls are arguably an infringement of free market principles. But, as Geller ably demonstrates, the flip side of this coin is a markedly aggressive campaign against Islam, Islamic wrongdoing, multiculturalism and integration etc. I don’t think it is misinformed to want to discuss this. We should bring these ideas out into the open, and if Geller’s ideas about “Islamification” are correct, they will withstand thorough analysis.
    .
    So, I contend that the Tea Party contains a mix of people, some of whom demonstrate awful levels of anti-Muslim racism. Geller does appear to be one of them – I did seek through Atlas Shrugged to see if I could see some balancing arguments in favour of multiculturalism, or maybe some criticism of Israel or the United States, but amongst all the vitriol, not one example could be found. Perhaps I didn’t look hard enough ;)
    .
    The other point that is worth considering is whether a political party always states its genuine intentions in full. I tend to contend that, averaged out, people naturally exist on the centre-left politically, even in the United States. A corollary of my belief is that, the further to the right wing a party exists (either on an economic or authoritarian scale) the more it has to rely on false consciousness to achieve its aims (i.e. it has to persuade people to vote against their better interests). Gary Younge, a British journalist, found this out about the Tea Party in particular (though I would certainly say it is true of the Democrats and Republicans too). He spoke to a woman on a rally organised by the Tea Party, and found that the woman was most concerned about Mexican immigration. But he also discovered that she was finding it impossible to get work, and consequently relied on inadequate state healthcare to survive. When asked why she would vote for people who would reduce welfare payments AND her limited medical provision, she admitted she’d not thought about it – the main issue for her was the Mexicans.
    .
    As I say, it would be unfair to single out the Tea Party to rely on people voting against their own interests, since all American parties do it. Hey, maybe quite a lot of parties around the world do it! But it does leave an important question – if they won’t be honest with their electoral base about economic policy, what else haven’t they written down? Would, for example, Geller be in charge of immigration policy in a Tea Party line-up? Yikes at the very thought!

  147. ‘Mod John’ – like it! Is he related to

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBaQd7wIuBk

    .

    ?
    .
    Deep in the summer night, great thoughts slip through th’Empyrean. Aye, diddly aye dye, diddly aye dye, diddly ayedye…

  148. I have actually met Ron Paul and I have quite a lot in common with his views. (Though he is not big on humility – we British are self-deprecating folk). But I fear the Tea Party today does not bear much relationship to the aims of its founders, with which, as I said, I do have a fair degree of sympathy. But the birthers, ultra zionists, christian fundamentalists and plain racist bigots like Geller have taken it over.

  149. Ha, that appears to be Mad John introduced by Madder John! I like it.

  150. Here is a guide to using Google cache. You can still access the page even if they took it down via Google cache (if Google’s webcrawler had indexed the page). However note that, the cache may be update when the crawler next visit the page (so the cache will not be there indefinitely).

    http://www.googleguide.com/cached_pages.html

    e.g. In the atlas site, u copy the address of the page “http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/04/norway-muslim-taxidrivers-refuse-to-drive-jews-to-synagogue.html”

    So in Google, you type “cache:http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/04/norway-muslim-taxidrivers-refuse-to-drive-jews-to-synagogue.html

    And u will get the cached version of the page.

    I took a few screenshot of a couple of posts. But I guess u can take screenshots for the rest if u wanna using the cache.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/eterna2/misc/pamelaGeller01.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/eterna2/misc/pamelaGeller02.jpg

  151. Re. Mad John, thanks, Jon!
    .
    Yes, I agree with Craig about Ron Paul et al – they’ve heavily criticised the Tea Party for these reasons.
    .
    On another note, an interesting point for people who support organisations/movements on the distal Right in Europe/North America and who seem perhaps a little irritated by all the “guilt by indirect association” vis a vis the Norway mass murder is this:
    .
    If I were to be polite, I would say that amidst all the horror, this may be an opportunity for those people to ponder very deeply upon what they are advocating and the manner in which they have been advocating it, the words used, the linguistic, cultural, historical and conceptual associations which they have utilised in order to construct and communicate their political programme.
    .
    If I were to be blunt, I would say, regarding “guilt by indirect association”, well, now you know how it feels. Next time you are tempted to stand outside a community hall carrying a megaphone and screaming abuse at ordinary Muslim people entering the hall, I want you to remember this moment.

  152. Geller has been actively promoting links between the Tea Party and the English Defence League.

    If the establishment parties are able to hold power largely becasue they obey the ‘terrible power of the Jewish purse’ — for instance defending ‘Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state’ while race-replacing European populations — then shouldn’t we expect to see the supposedly anti-establishment factions: the EDL, the Tea Party, the BNP, Geert Wilders, following the same standard as they seek power and influence?

    The problem isn’t really the various parties and movements, the problem is the concentration of money and ethnic power in one bloc.

  153. the cognescenti on the Net are noting that witnesses report there were multiple shooters – same as the RFK and JFK murders – and Norway had voiced support for Palestinians and was dropping some Israeli financial instruments. The shooter has the signs of a mind control cut out – proxy (see the Greenbaum speech and corydon hammond) and the violence of this action bears the signature of the Mossad and israel, which has a casual disregard for human life and property.

    The Jewish Post is even reporting that the shooter is a Zionist. And if you do not know how ruthless Zionists are, study the bloody aftermath of the Russian revolution. Or even the boarding of the flotilla and the slaughter of the unarmed. Or the israeli attack on the U S S Liberty, which killed 31 American sailors in an all out act of war against the U. S.

    http://conservativetimes.org/?p=9456

  154. “…for instance defending ‘Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state’ while race-replacing European populations…” Jamie.
    .
    The issue of Israel as a Zionist/ arguably Jewish Supremacist state is one thing. But “race-replacing” European populations? Are you referring here to, for example, Craig Murray’s Paris-born, Italian-origin great-grandmother who emigrated to Edinburgh in the late C19th? Whom, precisely, did she “replace”? Whom does Craig Murray “replace”? And whom, for example, might I have “replaced”?
    .
    Or is it just ‘replacement’ by people from outside the non-geographical construct of ‘Europe’ that you object to?
    .
    Black, brown and yellow people.
    .
    Better to be honest, and say so.
    .
    This mass murderer was indeed a racist, White Supremacist, Zionist, etc. The Far Right very recently has seen fit to embrace Israel as a bosom buddy because they know it’s political suicide to be openly anti-Semitic these days and because the new convenient ‘Enemy Number One’ is ‘Muslims’, a paradigm which delivers much more running in the public discourse at the present time. Also because Israel ‘bashes’ Arabs. And probably also because, at base, Zionism is a supremacist ideology which sits well with European and Norther American White Power ideologies.
    .
    “The problem isn’t really the various parties and movements, the problem is the concentration of money and ethnic power in one bloc.” Jamie.
    .
    Concentration of money is certainly the major problem facing our economies. But tying this up with ethnicity – why don’t you just come out and say ‘The Jews’ – is disingenuous. There are a lot of capitalists who happen to be Jews; there are a lot of capitalists who happen not to be Jews. Capitalists will do what capitalists do: acquire capital. With no, or reduced, institutional banking constraints, they will do this to the detriment of many other people and of the economies from which they acquire this capital.
    .

    And are you saying that the Far Right is not a problem? I think the massacre of close to 100 children (and God knows how many were injured) would suggest otherwise.
    .
    You seem to prefer the sun-symbol; try thinking of the darkness for a little while, the utter darkness that has enveloped hundreds of families in Norway today, precisely because of the nutcase theories of ‘replacement’ to which you allude. These theories helped to kill 20 million during WW2 and now have just helped to kill nearly 100 children in Norway. Nothing new, then.

  155. Correction: 50 million, not 20 million, dead in WW2.

  156. tell us shamrock, what has the US tea party movement got to do on a Rally that supports the bombing of inncoent people in Ghaza with illegal weaponry?

    Why was she allowed to spread her bile in Oslo in 2009, if the tea party had any credible policies, her fellow members would have discouraged her from this trip, nobody in Oslo will vote for her.

    The parents of thos young principled teenagers will want to know exactly who he was, what the police found on his computers, where he travelled to, who showed him how to make sophisticated devices, and why the EDL and melanie Phillips are desperate to disassociate themselves from him.

    If freemansory is such an honourable club of men, only, serving the public doing charity for ourn good, then they should volunteer information about the rogue in their midst, should they not?
    So should fellow members of his gun club.
    Scotland Yard, who saw nothing wrong with seizing Damian Green’s MP computer records on a spurious aquisation, and who follows up terrorist and their aquaintances in every other case, should now look at Melanie Phillips computer records, as she is referenced by this guy, so is the EDL, lets see some real help here for Norways grieving parents.

    The BBC, after having been insesitive in Millie Dowlers case, are now repeatingly showing the picture of Anders, aiming a gun in a macho pose and smiling, what an insult to the victims parents to see these militaristic connotations over and over again, they recive teh BBC in Norway and watch it.

    Has the BBC lost its empathy and feeling just as Anders has? have too much misrepresentation andlying changed our public broadcasting service into lackeys? Maybe they would like to explain why a picture of Anders in a freemasons apron is more inapropriate to show.

    utter back scratching cowards!

  157. @Shamrock, @Shannon, wherefore art thou? I was rather looking forward to a response.

  158. @ Suhayl

    But “race-replacing” European populations? Are you referring here to, for example, Craig Murray’s Paris-born, Italian-origin great-grandmother who emigrated to Edinburgh in the late C19th?

    Britain and most of western Europe are openly following a UN recommended policy of ‘replacement migration’ – startpage.com it. In fact the British government began imposing this model on unwilling Brits decades before the UN came up with exactly the right name for it. It’s not about individuals, millions upon millions are involved in Britain alone. I speak as an Englishman concerned for my specific ethnic group here, so I object to the mass-admission of Poles and other Europeans as well as Africans and Asians.

    This mass murderer was indeed a racist, White Supremacist

    I don’t think it’s logically possible for a Norwegian in Norway to even be racist. But let’s just say for now that he does not appear to have had any strong feelings for or against any ethnic group on account of their race per se. Neither does he appear to have wanted to privilege Europeans over non-Europeans even in the Europeans’ homelands. However, it’s my understanding that in the case of one particular south west Asian people he argues that they should be privileged even over Norwegians in certain respects, e.g., Jews in Israel could and should discriminate against Norwegians whereas Norwegians in Norway must not and should not discriminate against Jews. So Jew-Supremacist might be more accurate. As I wrote at Dean Henderson’s blog, the anti-Jihadi propagandists who turned Breivik cuckoo aim to inculcate objectively pro-Jewish, pro-Israel, anti-European, anti-Muslim double standards.

    The Far Right very recently has seen fit to embrace Israel as a bosom buddy because they know it’s political suicide to be openly anti-Semitic these days and because the new convenient ‘Enemy Number One’ is ‘Muslims’.

    That’s what I said (all of it coming under “obeying the ‘terrible power of the Jewish purse’”), except I don’t call a liberal ‘far-right’ just because he’s hysterical about the threat of Islam or opposes race-replacement. On the latter point neither do you I suspect, except when he’s White. You can prove me wrong and say the Dalai Lama, for instance, is a far-right fascist merely for opposing the displacement of Tibetans by Han Chinese. I say he’s just normal.

    The counter-Jihadi movement that spawned Breivik, true to its roots in the Trotskyite neoconservative movement, is not right wing in any real sense. See how Geert Wilders, Gates of Vienna, JihadWatch, Fjordman and Breivik himself all bitch about Islam from a perfectly politically correct liberal position: Islam ‘oppresses women’, Islam is ‘anti-gay’, Islam is ‘incompatible with liberal democracy’. To a real far-right these would be pro-Islamic arguments.

  159. Concentration of money is certainly the major problem facing our economies. But tying this up with ethnicity … is disingenuous.

    .
    We agree about the concentration of capital setting aside ethnic factors. But money and power are both routinely used in service of ethnic agendas. Jews spend hundreds of millions every year on explicitly Jewish causes whereas every White ethnic group combined spends roughly zero in its own interests, but rather bizarrely does fund other groups’ ethnocentric pursuits. And there are other forms of social and political capital distinct from the purely financial resources that different ethnic groups are either able / unable to mobilise in their own self-interest:

    .
    Dedicated ethno-states and militaries; access to the media and entertainment industries enabling them to construct a positive self-image and to denigrate perceived enemies; lobbying organisations and the ability to influence governments and affect policy; charities, education programs, policy forums, journals and so on devoted to building and consolidating a group identity and pursuing the group’s interests…

    .
    Variance in all these factors among ethnic groups explains why it’s political suicide to be openly anti-Semitic and why the new ‘Enemy Number One’ is Islam — but also why it’s political suicide to say ‘England belongs to the English’. Jewry exercises effective control over these questions in Britain and most of the West.

  160. And are you saying that the Far Right is not a problem? I think the massacre of close to 100 children (and God knows how many were injured) would suggest otherwise … precisely because of the nutcase theories of ‘replacement’ to which you allude. These theories helped to kill 20 million during WW2 and now have just helped to kill nearly 100 children in Norway. Nothing new, then.

    .
    You’re talking about the Poles ‘nutcase theories of replacement’ by Nazis, right? I agree, the Germans were just moving to Poland to make a better life for themselves.

    Jeesh! If you ever grow out of maniacally labelling every White person who doesn’t want to be genocided a genocidal maniac you might also take a more sensible approach to assessing the blame for tragedies. (And you might also be more use to the Palestinians, whose situation is largely a result of the liberal use of the nazi-holo meme and the boost it gives to Jewish aggression globally)

    .
    Personally I’m not willing to blame the (liberal, as I’ve shown) counter-Jihadi movement en massefor what Breivik did, any more than I would blame all pro-immigrationists for the many more numerous crimes of immigrants or for imposing mass-immigration on resentful populations in the first place, so that anti-immigration sentiment could then be channelled by an ‘interested third’ into anti-Jihadi madness.

    .
    The ideologues of the anti-Jihadi movement, and the pro-immigrationists, are responsible for their own crimes – crimes already on the book, but, because they are crimes in which the establishment is also complicit, these crimes go unpunished: propaganda for genocidal wars of aggression; propaganda promoting the ethnocide or cultural genocide of certain European and certain middle eastern peoples; arguments made to justify the ethnic cleansing of certain European and middle eastern territories and statements disputing or minimising these various ‘crimes against humanity’. I’m for an objective and impartial application of all these existing laws — I rather doubt you can say the same.

  161. I referenced Carl Schmitt’s concept of the ‘interested third’ — the types who manipulate people like Breivik, whose healthy instinct to oppose his people’s dispossession is turned into an outward aggression against an approved enemy:

    .
    Indigenous defenders of homeland soil, who died pro aris et focis, national, patriotic heroes who went into the woods, everything which was the reaction of a telluric force in the face of foreign invasion, has now fallen to an international and supranational steering committee, which helps and supports in the interest of its own specific cosmic-aggressive ends – and which protects and abandons accordingly. The partisan ceases to be merely defensive. He becomes a manipulated tool of worldwide revolutionary aggressiveness. [THEORY OF PARTISANS, 1963]

    .
    This is just as true for the generation of Asian and African ‘nationalists’ who booted Europeans out of their homelands then promptly turned up in Europe arguing that Europeans didn’t have the same right to boot them out.* In the case of the Muslims amongst them, what once seemed like a good deal, e.g.: Pakistan for Pakistanis, England for Pakistanis, now doesn’t seem quite so sweet. The international and supranational steering committee has once more turned against them.

    .
    * http://songlight-for-dawn.blogspot.com/2009/09/myths-of-oppression.html

  162. I said … I don’t think it’s logically possible for a Norwegian in Norway to even be racist.

    .
    Going into this … Breivik is a Norwegian living in Norway so any attitude he has toward other peoples cannot be racist if racism is taken to mean an attitude ‘unreasonably formed to the detriment’ of an outgroup, as per my dictionary (FONTANA DICTIONARY OF MODERN THOUGHT).

    .
    Where a dispute or conflict of interests arises between Norwegians and non-Norwegians in Norway it is always right to give priority of consideration to the Norwegians, this is reasonable, it’s why we are all anti-colonists, anti-imperialists, anti-cultural imperialists (or believe we are). We should never insist that the Norwegians change to suit the preferences of the non-Norwegians. This is unreasonable, and to the detriment of a particular ethnic group, so could qualify as ‘racist’ (if we really must use this 20thC. neologism, popularised by Trotsky’s followers to stigmatise normal feelings of loyalty to one’s people, culture and nation in populations they targeted for subjugation).

    .
    Racism must by definition be directed outward, so no thought, statement or deed by a man in his own country about an alien can properly be described as racist.

  163. “Racism must by definition be directed outward, so no thought, statement or deed by a man in his own country about an alien can properly be described as racist.” Jamie.
    .
    How very convenient.
    .
    I said … I don’t think it’s logically possible for a Norwegian in Norway to even be racist.

    .
    Going into this … Breivik is a Norwegian living in Norway so any attitude he has toward other peoples cannot be racist if racism is taken to mean an attitude ‘unreasonably formed to the detriment’ of an outgroup, as per my dictionary.
    .
    More semantics.
    .
    I agree, though, that useful automatons and people like Breivik (and the EDL, etc.) are used cynically by those in power – possibly the security-intelligence services, for example – to further their own ends, which largely comprise divide-and-rule, blackmailing politicians, judges, etc. and generating more money for themselves and the MI complex whom they represent.
    .
    I also agree that the Zionist lobby exerts disproportionate influence on Congress in the USA, the media in the USA and on many in the UK too. I do not agree, however, with your automatic ascribing of all this, and more, to “Jewry”. To some extent, It could be argued that Israel is a European-style, uber-nationalist settler state founded on the principles of Jewish Supremacism and which increasingly is tending towards Jewish Fundamentalism. Indeed, the two Israeli writers/ documentary producers were arguing precisely this – that even many pro-Palestinian people in Israel/ the West tend not to want to question Israel’s underlying dogmas – in their excellent pieces. I’ll try and find the links.
    .
    But you know, conflating all this – the Palestinian struggle – with the Far Right’s actions in Norway – and Breivik is of the Far Right and used the theories of the Far Right to explain and justify his actions, so the Far Right cannot wriggle out of this. It is disingenuous to try to do so.
    .
    Finally, Jamie for all your elegant theorising and sun-symbol spinning, you have not answered my very simple questions, which were (I have developed them just a little, and added one):
    .
    1) Whom, precisely, have Craig Murray, his wife and his child “replaced” in the UK?
    .
    2) Whom, precisely, have I “replaced” in the UK?
    .
    3) What do you propose to do about it?
    .
    And please don’t give us three chapters from, say, ‘The Life and Works of Colin Jordan’ as an answer to these two very simple questions. You see, it’s all very well theorising about blood and soil and homelands and so on, but when one comes down to it, one is talking about people, individuals and families, and ultimately one is talking about shooting children in the chest on an island in Norway.
    .

  164. Jamie, this is the essence of one of your arguments: ‘It is impossible for a Norwegian living in Norway to be racist’, or, to quote you exactly, “I don’t think it’s logically possible for a Norwegian in Norway to even be racist…”
    .
    So, if a Norwegian in Norway says to the equivalent of me, “You’re an fucking Muzzie raghead sandnigger (oh, and I’m going to shoot one hundred children to display my displeasure with your presence in my country)”, that, according to you, would not be racist.
    .
    I’m sorry, but that is just plain silly.

  165. It must be nice for you to simply place blame on others, neatly absolving the individual who perpetrated this abhorrent crime of responsibility. It seems to me that by your way of thinking, no one is responsible for their actions because they can always point a finger to those others who supposedly “influenced” them. In the case of a battered woman, don’t blame the guy who beat her up; after all, she MADE HIM DO IT! Your way of thinking defies logic.

    You say that the links of these articles in atlas shrugs have been disabled. This is plainly NOT TRUE. I found every single article on atlas shrugs. In NO WAY do these articles encourage violence. Pamela Geller scours the internet to find articles which she posts on her blog with her comments. If she finds out that an article is not true in any way, she always posts a retraction or rebuttal. SHE HAS NEVER ENCOURAGED VIOLENCE IN ANY FORM. She only wants to tell the truth about one of the most intolerant, violent ideologies the world has ever known. Have you ever read the quran, Craig Murray? Do you know about the law of abrogation where if there are two verses that contradict each other, the one written later is the one that is followed. Have you read the hadiths and the life of mohammed? Do you know that mohammed is held as the perfect man and that his is the example for muslims to follow? Do you know about takiyya? – that islam mandates deception when dealing with non-muslims. This deception is taught in the quran chapter 3 verse 28 and chapter 16 verse 106. Don’t take my word for it. Read it for yourself in the quran. (Before you dismiss me as a racist, remember that islam is NOT a race. I am a teacher and have a lot of muslim students. I treat everyone with respect and dignity and judge people by their character and actions, NOT by any other criteria.)

  166. “disgusted” wrote: “I just love this “guilt by association” – attempting to blame the Tea Party movement for this lunatic’s evil actions. It is cowardly and logically incorrect, but since the US press has been trying to blame everything except sunspots on the tea party movement, it’s not surprising.”
    Change “Tea Party” to “Islam” and this post is dead on. Which is exactly the point. If the same rationalizations and ‘logic’ of blame were applied to the radical right-wing in the US as is applied to Islam, then Bill O’Reilly and hundreds of ministers throughout the US would be in Gitmo for inciting terrorism. You can just as easily say there’s a “global network” or Christian terrorists (Army of God, Christian Identity), that people like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolf, and Anders Breivik are members of it, and that Bill O’Reilly (“I’m not TELLING you to go kill abortion doctors, but if you do, you’ll be making Jesus very happy”) and others like him directly support it. All these things are said about Islam and Al Qaida all the time, yet what evidence is there? Some nutbag in Florida tries to blow something up and it’s said he’s “linked to al Quaida”, even though he’s never been out of his county, much less country, and can’t read Arabic. Then a nutbag shoots a bunch of people, clearly writes in numerous blogs and manifestos that he’s following the words of Jerry Fallwell or Bill O’Reilly or Sarah Palin, and everyone says “oh, but we can’t hold any of THOSE people responsible for his actions.”
    The point ISN’T that we should hold Palin responsible for the Norway shootings…the point is that we should show the same reason and logic when the violence is carried out by a purported Muslim, too.
    Extremism is the enemy of a rational and compassionate world. And there are violent extremists in all three of the major Western Religions. So far in the US, there have been far more terrorist attacks by people calling themselves “Christian” than those calling themselves “Muslim”. We recognize that the former do not speak for the majority of Christians…we should recognize the same about the latter.

    Laslty, “disgusted” finishes with a comment that would be funny in its irony, if it didn’t show a very dangerous mixture of arrogance and ignorance. The idea that “Europe” doesn’t enjoy the “freedom” that the US does. He’s obviously never been to Europe…I’ve lived in Europe for almost ten years now (after more than twenty in the US) and I’m always amazed when I return to the US by how much MORE my life is controlled and monitored there than it is in Europe. The only “freedom” that’s greater in the US is the one to own deadly weapons, which of course only makes it a more dangerous country.

  167. How very convenient.

    .
    It’s inconvenient only to those from outside a country who want to apply objectively discriminatory or hostile standards to its native peoples. Rather than whine about being fingered, how about you stop doing it?

    .
    More semantics.

    .
    I’m aiming to clearly define our terms. Precisely what’s needed when we’re dealing with a relatively new term that’s used to describe diverse, often contradictory behaviours. You object only because it suits you to say that freeing Asia from European colonists was anti-racism, while also claiming that Europeans who want to be free of Asian colonists are racist. The prevailing double standards favour you and yours while my consistent standards would remove that advantage.

    .
    I also agree that the Zionist lobby exerts disproportionate influence on Congress in the USA, the media in the USA and on many in the UK too. I do not agree, however, with your automatic ascribing of all this, and more, to “Jewry”.

    .
    It ain’t the Eskimos, dumbass.

    .
    But you know, conflating all this – the Palestinian struggle – with the Far Right’s actions in Norway

    .
    I ‘conflate’ the Palestinian struggle for self-determination and against displacement and dispossession with all other struggles for self-determination and against displacement and dispossession. You want to tell me why that’s flawed? Let me tell you again why I believe you want to pretend my thinking is flawed: because I say peoples that happen to be White are due equal consideration — no more, no less. But since you are to me what a Zionist colonist is to a Palestinian, you resist an even-handed approach to these questions.

    .
    On the other hand I do not conflate the counter-Jihadi movement with any struggle for self-determination, or with any real ‘far-right’ and have given my reasons why. You haven’t challenged my reasoning. The same goes for defining racism where I even quoted a specialist dictionary and showed that were I to use the word (I don’t tend to) it would be in accord with a scholarly and objective definition, where you prefer the targeted and weaponised use of the word a la Trotsky.

    .
    I answered the following questions already but note you failed to answer mine. Still, here for clarity:

    .
    1) Whom, precisely, have Craig Murray, his wife and his child “replaced” in the UK? 2) Whom, precisely, have I “replaced” in the UK? 3) What do you propose to do about it?

    .
    I do not know anything about these people or their ethnic background, so I do not know what part they have played in the replacement of English people with aliens. The important thing is to halt and reverse the process while we still can. The psychopathic ‘logic’ of replacement migration demands that new immigrants keep coming forever (unless the immigrant groups simply outbreed natives), and it is known where this will lead us:

    .
    quote: We investigated various cases of the island model with stochastic migration. If the population is infinite, the immigrants have a fixed gene frequency and the alleles are neutral, the gene frequency on the island converges to that of the immigrants. /endquote. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1213928

    .
    You see, it’s all very well theorising about blood and soil and homelands and so on, but when one comes down to it, one is talking about people, individuals and families, and ultimately one is talking about shooting children in the chest on an island in Norway.

    .
    Or more likely, simply taking a return flight and re-uniting people, individuals and families — something that hundreds of thousands of people are doing for fun these summer holidays. Oh, the horror of it!

    .
    Your language is designed to invoke fear and paralysis in the face of your ethnic attack. Terror on terror. It’s quite disgusting.

  168. “But since you are to me what a Zionist colonist is to a Palestinian, you resist an even-handed approach to these questions.” Jamie.
    .
    O, you ought to be on TV, Jamie, you really ought to be on the Edinburgh Fringe Comedy Circuit, man. Such hilarious silliness. This really exemplifies the whole of your argumentation. So, now I’m the ‘IDF’? No, no, you’ve got it wrong. In truth, you’re an Aryan Warrior and I’m a holy cow!
    .
    Craig Murray, who is white British/Scottish, has married a wonderful, talented woman from Uzbekistan and they have a lovely child. So, now you know. Please answer the question: Whom are Craig Murray and his wife “replacing”, Jamie?
    .
    Here are some other questions. You seem like a very intelligent and articulate person, Jamie, I’m sure you’ll have no difficulty in answering these very simple, naive questions of mine:
    .
    1) What do you think of Lee John Barnes?
    .
    2) Do you like Led Zeppelin’s music?
    .
    3) Do you believe in either compulsory or voluntary repatriation of non-white people from the UK?
    .
    4) Do you enjoy Morris Dancing?
    .
    5) Whatever your answer to Question 4), do you know the likely origin of the Morris Dance?
    .
    6) Do you regard “miscegenation” as a bad thing?
    .
    7) How does seeing a black man with a white woman make you feel, really, deep down?
    .
    Please do answer with frankness. I think it’s important that views such as yours are aired and discussed and that you get a chance to put and defend them. Actually, I prefer open, honest Far Right belief to someone who hides behind a cloak of respectability. So, be open! Be blunt! Let your great sun shine down upon us all! Think only of this:
    .

    Glory, glory, the Norman prince has alighted ‘pon the shore. Hail, metal-head, hail, horn’d One.
    .
    Then imagine a Celtic knot, writ large and infinite across the firmament. Look closely. Closer.
    .
    In Old Brythonic, the knot spells out the word, ‘J-A-M-I-E’.
    .
    He has come.

  169. “Indeed,” intoned the Druid, “He is come unto us. Hail the Teuton!”
    .
    And then, there came from the earth, the bellow of a great guitar and the wail of you-know-who: ‘Triquetra: 666′.
    .
    And the multitude cried, “The Beast of the Barnes is cometh. And behold, his name is not Lee John, but Jamie!”

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