The Man Who Didn’t Disappoint

by craig on June 25, 2013 11:51 am in Uncategorized

Nelson Mandela was a rallying focus for any progressive thinker of my generation.  I attended numerous events of which the aim was to free Nelson Mandela.  I carried a torch through Edinburgh, danced round a bonfire in Dundee and talked to the startled tourists in Norwich cathedral, among other things.

That walk from prison came at a time when it seemed possible that the world would actually get better.  Walls were coming down, liberty was in the air.  All that was eventually to change and become a neo-con nightmare in Europe and a corruption nightmare in South Africa.  I remember even in the early eighties wondering what Mandela was really like.  How many people really knew him before he went to jail?  Certainly none who were demonstrating with me.  How had he managed to project a worldwide presence from decades inside a cell?  There was a real danger he would turn out to be a hideous disappointment, to have feet of clay, like – well at the time like Winnie Mandela was the obvious fear.

Indeed the rest of the ANC were in power to prove corrupt, elitist and grabbing.  I keep getting disappointed still.  I was astonished to see a statement last year from Cyril Ramaphosa effectively supporting the police who shot striking miners.  Mbeki had lost it before he took over.  In Europe, Walesa was a nightmare in government, and Havel a neo-con tool.  I never believed in Blair, but those who did were certainly deceived.  The greatest disappointment of all, however, was Obama, who turned out to be a smoother and more obediently ruthless front for the Orwellian security state than George W. Bush

Mandela is the only political leader who never failed my faith.  His philosophy and demeanour was Christ-like in its capacity for forgiveness and inclusion.  He really was everything those millions around the world hoped as they demonstrated for the better world that would be symbolised through his release.  The miracle of Mandela was that he never disappointed.

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113 Comments

  1. Dear oh dear, you’ve not read Pilger then? Mandela did a deal with the Oppenheimers. They get to keep South Africa’s wealth he gets to walk. He walked.

  2. I grant you, he was a nice chap apart from holding hands with Col Gaddafi and calling him “My brathah leadah!” :)

  3. I am wondering on what conceivable terms the apartheid regime in SA could have been ended without the positive involvement of the diamond (gold, platinum, etc) industries. If he’d kicked them out (if he could have kicked them out), he’d have been left with a dysfunctional economy and incessant subversion by the West. He’d probably have been assassinated and replaced by something like Mugabe. Mandela’s objective was achieved: pity it wasn’t sustained and developed by his successors. He had high ideals, but he was a realist.

  4. The ANC successors should hang their heads in shame. They have betrayed their people. I was in S Africa when the first democratic vote took place after the disgusting system of Apartheid was dismantled. There were queues to vote that were miles long and there was excitement and high expectation in the air.

    I never visited Robben Island but did look down from a high point on the prison called Pollsmor and thought of Nelson Mandela who was incarcerated there and from where he walked to freedom.
    Mandela describes prison time on Robben Island and Pollsmoor Prison.

    ‘His 28-year tenure in prison was marked by the cruelty of Afrikaner guards, backbreaking labour, and sleeping in minuscule cells which were nearly uninhabitable.’
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Walk_to_Freedom_(book)

    It is even more crowded now.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollsmoor_Prison

  5. The miracle of Mandela was that he never disappointed

    Agreed. Mandela indeed deserves our respects, he has earned it the hardest way possible.

    Furthermore, Walesa was never going to be anything other than a nightmare, he pulled out the Gdansk shipyard workers on Strike because the shipyard management would not let him take his holidays, based on a short notice of only three weeks. Walesa was just the tool to bring down the Polish government, and pave the way for the fall of the rest of the eastern block.

    Czech republic was handed over to Havel, whom turned the country into a giant open air whorehouse (anyone travelling the route 66 would recall the ugly sight of scantly clad hoards of young women punting for business on the roadside), that was the miracle of capitalism, the once proud men and women were pimping and selling their women folks’ genitals; they had no other assets to fall back on.

    Now the world has turned out to be a giant workhouse, and a whorehouse.

  6. The miracle of Mandela is that he has come back before, and if he does not this time, so be it. He’s in his nineties. It sounds desperate but he’s not dead yet, and while there’s life there’s hope. One of the great acts of kindness was his visit to Abdelbaset al Megrahi in prison. Mandela knew about prison. He knew too, long before many others, that al Megrahi was innocent.

    http://wikispooks.com/wiki/Abdelbaset_Ali_Mohmed_Al_Megrahi#Prison_visit_by_Nelson_Mandela

    If there is a single act that could be done as a tribute to Mandela it would be to push for a proper inquiry into who was responsible for the Lockerbie bombing of Pan Am 103. Even though it is well-known that al Megrahi was not responsible both David Cameron and Ed Miliband want a line drawn under it as though al Megrahi was responsible. That alone should tell you something. The CIA handled the original inquiry. That should tell you something else. Speculation among those who have made this issue a lifetime work is that the target of the bombing was Bernt Carlsson, United Nations Commissioner to Namibia, who died in the crash. That seems like a good place to start the inquiry.

  7. THE TRUTH ABOUT MANDELA
    Who started apartheid in South Africa? It was the British who imposed segregation between whites and blacks way back when South Africa was a British Colony.
    In his early years as a black activist, Nelson Mandela was involved in an anti-apartheid “freedom” group known as the African National Congress (ANC) with the goal of bringing rights and privileges back to blacks that had been taken away by the whites. After years of peaceful demonstrations, things turned violent. Mandela was arrested, imprisoned and given a life sentence.
    Mandela’s imprisonment became a public relations nightmare for South Africa’s white criminal minority. During his imprisonment, a “Free Mandela” campaign attracted world wide attention to apartheid, white domination, terror, aggression, abuses, suffering, killing, torture and detentions. The whites had squandered South Africa’s resources and used them to build a military machine and wage an unending war against the population of blacks.
    Mandela had been called a terrorist by the Thatcher government, so how and why did this black terrorist become eligible for a British knighthood from the Queen and a Presidential Medal of Freedom award from George W. Bush?

    THE MANDELA DEAL
    “Free Mandella” campaigns and the ever-growing global anti-apartheid movement pressured South Africa’s white minority into supporting the anti-apartheid movement of the ANC.
    The ANC became guided and sponsored by two Communist Jews, Albie Sachs, “one of its foremost intellectuals”( London Sunday Times, August 29, 1993) and Yossel Mashel Slovo (Joe Slovo, 1926-1995) who staged a terrorist war against the Apartheid government of South Africa. For publicity purposes, they used their Zionist-controlled mass media to bill their terrorist actions as “the people’s struggle”.
    The white elites needed a black face to front their mining operations, so they released Mandella from prison after 27 years and installed him as South Africa’s first black President “for a price”.

    The illusion that the indigenous people’s had taken back control of their country was bought hook, line and sinker by the world and even by South Africans themselves! White ownership over the land was taken away and the land was returned to the blacks…but instead of bringing prosperity to South Africa, the wealth of the nation declined. Farming practices were abandoned which decreased exports and weakened the economy.

    WHITE CONTROL – FROM OVERT TO COVERT
    Before the transfer of power from the white minority to the black majority, the white Jewish Oppenheimer family controlled about 80 per cent of the companies quoted on the South African stock-market. They owned the gold, diamond and other mining industries on which the country depended. They also controlled the media through various frontmen.
    Today, the Oppenheimers still control about 80 per cent of the companies on the South African stock-market. They still own the gold, diamond and other mining industries on which the country depends, and they still control the media via Henry Kissinger’s frontmen. The income from the exploitation of South Africa’s vast resources is being funneled into foreign hands.
    So what’s the difference between the white Brotherhood’s control of South Africa before apartheid and after apartheid? The difference is that no-one is complaining anymore. World condemnation of the racist white minority dictatorship in South Africa was successfully silenced and overt “white” control was replaced by covert “white” control.
    The media monopolies glorified Mandella as a national hero, an icon of freedom while the same “whites” continued controlling South Africa just as they had done before, only now they were free to exploit without condemnation.
    The shanty towns and corrugated iron ghettos are still there in Soweto and spreading out every day. The heart wrenching poverty is no longer front page news because everyone knows that South Africa is now free.

    MANDELA’S HOMICIDAL WIFE
    After Nelson Mandela’s release from prison, , Winnie Mandela was sentenced in 1991 to six years in prison for kidnapping and assault in the death of 14-year-old James Seipei “Stompie” Moeketsi. She appealed her sentence and it was reduced to a suspended jail term. Winnie Mandela has also been found guilty on 43 counts of fraud and 25 counts of theft. She is implicated in the murder of two ANC activists whose bodies have recently been exhumed.

    SAINT MANDELA
    People LOVE Mandela because he’s a “saint” they say. He brought “freedom” to South Africa, blah blah blah. He’s an enemy of poverty, blah blah blah.
    The ruling African National Congress (ANC) are using the dying Mandela as their political prop. In power since 1994, the ANC wants to convince the public that it is still the party of Mandela despite widespread corruption and poverty.
    ON HIS DEATH BED
    In a controversial new book, MI6: Fifty Years of Special Operations, by the acclaimed intelligence expert Stephen Dorril, allegations of Mandela’s recruitment by MI6 British intelligence service and his endorsement of UK spying operations based in South Africa are revealed.
    Now that Mandela is on his death bed, South Africa is attempting to write his legacy and a eulogy for him while facing 40% unemployment, poor public education, devastating poverty and epidemic HIV and AIDS.

  8. There aren’t many people who fail to disappoint. So long as people continue to fool themselves, and others, into thinking that humanity is something intrinsically good, they will continue to be disappointed.

  9. Certainly Mandela never failed my faith, nut I can also say that for JFK, MLK, Gorbachev, and a few other lesser lights.

    The problem with the current world is that there is no one on our side who is anything but a terrible disappointment.

  10. Thanks Mitch, your comprehensive post has added much to this thread.
    Mandela was an icon just as Mother Theresa, they are both fallible and no saints.

    The ANC has betrayed its own aims and objectives, infighting and backstabbing, to become the token black on company boards, jumping on to the Oppenheimer express gravy train, has become the currency of estimation within the party.

    SA is being robbed, still.

  11. @John Goss (12:51pm)

    I agree with you on Lockerbie and now that the prosecutor Peter Fraser, who took such a flawed case on, has passed away, the impetus is growing. I’ve just been reading, the original aaib report on the incident and have become convinced that the explosive charge must have been large, very large, not a small amount that could be accomodated in a radio-cassette. The aaib concludes the front part of the plane, from the damaged area forward including upper and lower decks, and flight deck, cabin and nose separated completely from the rest of the plane, within 2-3 seconds of the explosion. A necessarily small amount of explosive packed into a radio-cassette then attenuated by suitcase contents such as clothing, hard but ultimately yielding suitcase and then luggage hold container of aluminium could not have had such a catastrophic effect so quickly, such ‘over-pressure’, again hinting the explosive charge must have been considerable and with a lesser charge the plane may have over a longer time period still broken up completely with such a charge, if it could not be controlled and brought safely down.

    Not ruled out either is any external source of explosive, i.e. a missile; with its trajectory and momentum stopped by successive layers, ie inner and outer skin, aluminium luggage container, suitcases and contents -its small entry hole would be lost completely in the 17ft by 5ft exit hole after its detonation.

    The aaib report also incredibly incongruously refers refers to at least four pieces of satellite debris which were expected to enter the earth’s atmosphere in the relevant timeframe and burn up, statistically so unlikely I would think to have been connected in any way, or even mentioned and if they had posed a threat to aircraft, with however low a probability then surely a general grounding of civil aviation would have been a wise precaution until they were down or burned up. Also I thought it significant that this was no ordinary 747 but heavily modified, strengthened for ‘military’ cargos.

  12. Yeah yeah. We all did the anti apartheid thing. I pickedted oil copmanies and banks. I hosted delegates. I remember going to a meeting attended by Joe Slovo. Now that was heavy. One of my mates wrote a well known song about freeing him. Funny enough another friend now rents the basement of the old anc hq in brixton.

    But really he is just another man. I have no idea what “christ like” means. Wether he did the wrong thing for the right reasons is another argument but the pedestal on which he is placed is somewhat hollow.

    All politicians will disappoint. Including the son of god. Especially the son of god.

  13. Significant too that the reconstructed damaged section of the plane has been returned to Scotland from Farnborough and significant felling of trees towards the eastern end of the southern debris trail, in then heavily forested areas has been taking place, opening up areas which may only have been cursorily searched at the time, or missed entirely including probably that area where the highly improbable mebo fragment was allegedly found, though the chances of any useful or significant physical evidence still being recovered is slim.

  14. Flaming June

    25 Jun, 2013 - 2:35 pm

    The price of gold.

    CAR gold miners killed in pit collapse

    Clashes in Bangui leave ’17 dead’
    Profile: CAR’s new strongman
    CAR rebel leader reviews mine deals

    At least 37 gold miners have died after heavy rains caused a pit collapse in the Central African Republic, officials say.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23046572

    The connections between the ANC and the Central African Republic.

    Central African Republic: Is this what our soldiers died for?http://mg.co.za/article/2013-03-28-00-central-african-republic-is-this-what-our-soldiers-died-for

    South Africa ‘downplayed’ casualties in CAR fighting
    http://www.france24.com/en/20130404-south-africa-deaths-central-african-republic-mining-oil-anc

    which all helps to keep Mr Leviev’s trade in blood diamonds going amongst all his other activities.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_Israel_Investments

  15. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 3:15 pm

    14 posts in and we’re off on our favorite hobby-horse again….

    Two mentions of the Oppenheimers and one of a “Mr Leviev” (who he?), with poster Mitch at least being honest enough to lay his cards on the table (“..the white Jewish Oppenheimer family..” in case any of us thought the Oppenheimers were Bantus.

  16. As Nobody said it’s worth reading Pilger on this:

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/south-africa-the-liberations-betrayal

    http://johnpilger.com/articles/apartheid-never-died-in-south-africa-it-inspired-a-world-order-upheld-by-force-and-illusion

    He’s clearly a remarkable man. A good man. But “christ like”. Please. There were many other african who suffered as badly, worse, and didn’t get to enjoy the life of riley.

  17. Kindly confine yourself to one apartheid state at a time, Mary:

    http://www.ceia-sc.org/page55/page55.html

  18. Mary, kindly also take a line from Craig’s book:

    “I am in Africa. Edward Snowden seems to be doing a super job without me, so I have been working on my book and not burdening you with superfluous comment.”

  19. Am I living on another planet where FlamingJune isn’t the worse person in the world? Why regular posters join in with the trolls is beyond me. You are mugs. Childish bullying mugs, falling for aggressive pr.

  20. I too felt hope when Nelson Mandela made his walk to freedom. Over the next few years, my political cynicism grew and by the time Tony Blair was foisted upon us, I already knew that Prime Ministers were appointed, not elected. My cynicism has stood the test of the intervening years.

    A few years ago, I pondered the live televised release of Nelson Mandela, the adulation of the media, the glowing tributes of Western politicians, and I re-assessed it in the light of my cynical beliefs. I reflected that foreign leaders who get a good press in this country are invariably putting Western interests before those of their countries. The reverse is also true, Mugabe being a clear example of the demonisation reserved for African leaders who thwart Western interests. I could think of no exceptions, and so I regrettably concluded that Nelson Mandela must have done a deal. Maybe he convinced himself (possibly correctly) that he was the one who could get the best possible deal for his country, but foreign leaders don’t get media treatment like that unless they’ve paid a price.

    Sorry Craig, but somewhere hidden inside Nelson’s shoes, you’re going to find some clay.

  21. Mary, kindly also take a line from Craig’s book:

    “I am in Africa. Edward Snowden seems to be doing a super job without me, so I have been working on my book and not burdening you with superfluous comment.”

    The Irony of ironies, filling the thread with mendacious little ditties whilst lecturing others to take a a line from Craig’s book

    Along with the gripes about “white Jewish families”. Is this blog yet another occupied territories wich the settlers having been promised it in the bible or some other scriptures?

    #############

    He’s clearly a remarkable man. A good man. But “christ like”. Please. There were many other african who suffered as badly, worse, and didn’t get to enjoy the life of riley.

    No one has proclaimed Mandela as Christ. However we cannot take the credit away from him, without Mandela the apartheid would not have vanished, without a great deal more bloodshed. The detractors, have not fully explored the entrenched roots of White South Africans’ racism towards the blacks, which would not vanish overnight. Apartheid was destroyed, this somehow did not mean that the black South Africans could overnight achieve economic prosperity too.

    The disgusting roots of racism are still alive and kicking in the same virulent potency as the old apartheid South Africa, and are the course of “normal conduct” in the shitty little Strip of land that evidently is beyond any reproach in case anyone dares to offend the current contrived imperatives by committing “tropes”.

  22. “A necessarily small amount of explosive packed into a radio-cassette then attenuated by suitcase contents such as clothing, hard but ultimately yielding suitcase and then luggage hold container of aluminium could not have had such a catastrophic effect so quickly, such ‘over-pressure’, again hinting the explosive charge must have been considerable and with a lesser charge the plane may have over a longer time period still broken up completely with such a charge, if it could not be controlled and brought safely down.”

    You clearly have no concept of just how powerful 1lb of commercial/military grade explosive is. It’s more than enough to shred a car and an aluminium container and the contents of a suitcase aren’t going to significantly attenuate the blast.

    “Not ruled out either is any external source of explosive, i.e. a missile; with its trajectory and momentum stopped by successive layers, ie inner and outer skin, aluminium luggage container, suitcases and contents -its small entry hole would be lost completely in the 17ft by 5ft exit hole after its detonation.”

    It would have had to have been a big missile to bring an aircraft down from that height, would’ve left it’s own debris and done far more damage. These things tend to travel at supersonic speed and could pass right through a 747 without appreciably slowing down.

  23. Passerby 25 Jun, 2013 – 4:27 pm
    “No one has proclaimed Mandela as Christ.”

    Er, yes Craig did.
    “His philosophy and demeanour was Christ-like..”

  24. Flaming June

    25 Jun, 2013 - 5:12 pm

    I had not realised that Leviev was an Uzbek.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lev_Leviev

  25. Having spent a couple of years in South Africa, a good deal of which was spent visiting the various “squatter” camps around Cape Town, Jo’burg and the Eastern Cape, I’d suggest that Mandela has disappointed a great many people in failing to deliver a better quality of life to any but a privileged few.

  26. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 6:25 pm

    @ Flaming June :

    “I had not realised that Leviev was an Uzbek.”
    ___________

    No, but I’m sure you’d sniffed out that he was Jewish (clue: Lev Leviev)

  27. Mandela is given credit for what FW de Klerk did – dismantle Apartheid in South Africa. To be the leader of that minority who hands over power. Who takes that huge risk… Far more towering than the role of taking the reigns… but seldom sung…

  28. Mandela could be said to have disappointed himself, in the sense that he publicly pointed to his attitude toward AIDS as one of his administration’s worst blunders. (That means there have been blunders even worse.)

  29. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 6:50 pm

    HUGE vacuum when Mandela departs.

  30. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 6:52 pm

    The other day, The CE was kind enough to regale us with a superb example of ‘prose’ from Mark Golding. I recall that he offered a prize to he or her who could make sense of it, but I strongly doubt that he’s had to fork out yet…or ever will.

    Anyway.

    Here’s another offering which earns the Habbabkuk “nonsense of the day” accolade (from Passerby, above) :

    “The disgusting roots of racism are still alive and kicking in the same virulent potency as the old apartheid South Africa, and are the course of “normal conduct” in the shitty little Strip of land that evidently is beyond any reproach in case anyone dares to offend the current contrived imperatives by committing “tropes”.”

    What an egregious piece! “Roots” which are not only “disgusting” but which posses the animate quality of being able to “kick”. A “potency” which is “virulent” and then back to the disgusting roots which are now “in the course of normal conduct” – whatever that means. And we round off with a reference to Israel (I suppose), a country which is apparently beyond reproach in case anyone dares to offend (huh?) the “current contrived imperatives by committing tropes” (Meaning??).

    With reference to Passerby’s very last phrase : while everyone should of course be free to express the most lunatic views, it is perhaps Passerby who should be “committed” – for offences against the English language.

  31. “Is Phil a chumpus maximus”

    Hardly anything is more mentally degrading and socially destructive than discussing persons, labeling persons, elevating them, getting disappointed in them…

    ……Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil…..

    - Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

  32. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 7:17 pm

    How many leaders were exterminated that could have aided in the transformation?

    ‘Bantu’ Steven Biko was a tragic loss.

  33. The ‘forgiveness’ and ‘inclusion’ Craig used to express the spirit of Mandela has been drowned in our age of terror by those bastards who represent us. Accusation and exclusion prevail.

    These are their words:

    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says there will be consequences for countries helping former U.S. intelligence analyst Edward Snowden avoid arrest for disclosing secret details of the U.S. government’s surveillance of telephone and Internet activities.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/kerry-says-there-are-consequences-for-countries-aiding-snowden/1687952.html

  34. I’m sorry to break into the paean. I respect Mandela as a symbol of anti-apartheid resistance and much else, in the 1980s I too was moved by the songs and I was as excited as the next person when he was freed. I will be sad when he dies.

    Yet like all redemptive (redemptive for the liberal whites) black and brown political icons idolised by liberal whites (think also, Gandhi and Martin Luther King), it is important not to close down the gates of enquiry and analysis with convenient laurel leaves.

    These three links have the usual prefixes but no ‘worldwideweb’ bit:

    1) What precisely was MI6′s – and Daphne Park’s – role in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba?

    panafricannews.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/allegations-resurface-surrounding-role.html

    2) Another view of Mandela:

    mayihlome.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/the-question-is-did-nelson-mandela-sold-out-or-not/

    3) Was Mandela an agent of influence for MI6? In his voluminous book on MI6, Stephen Dorril claimed that he was and the Sunday Herald reported this view; both Mandela and MI6 denied it.

    greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism-thaxis/2000-March/016164.html

  35. Very good article which presents a critique of Question Time, although why anyone still takes the BBC seriously enough to critique any of its output remains a valid question.

    “Reality TV stars from The Apprentice and Dragons’ Den have clocked up more appearances on Question Time than all scientists in the world put together since the last general election”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2013/jun/14/bbc-question-time

    I remember some years ago, when Rod Liddle was still the producer of the Today programme, he was taken to task over his poor coverage of science. The overweening nature of Liddle was of course a significant part of that memory, but people should reflect on why science forms so small a part of output in favour of soap opera and trite narrative.

  36. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    25 Jun, 2013 - 9:13 pm

    Mark @ 8:44

    He said it while in India, one of the BRICS participants. I think a lot of the acrimony is due to the terror inherent in the death of the Petrodollar. The rest is window dressing for our latest dupe,
    John Kerry. You can almost see the strings if you’ve been to the Circus or a Puppet show.

  37. The irony is that all those that disappointed, entered positions of power with relatively clean hands, whereas Nelson Mandela was a convicted terrorist.

    Some have it all to lose, others have it all to win.

  38. Suhayl – Mrs Thatcher was supporting the South African Zulu leader, Mangosuthu Buthelezi, as an alternative to the ANC. British intelligence (MI6) agents took the ANC more seriously.

    We certainly cannot believe the ‘stories’ of Richard Tomlinson.

  39. Ben – Nice one buddie I can even feel the strings..

  40. Hard to resist the inveterate temptation to rank them in the standings like goalies, but there’s a cure for that: in universal moral and legal terms, the two men are comparable in exactly one way. Both of them are rights defenders.

    States can’t pick and choose your rights, they’re indivisible, you get them all. So if a Snowden risks torture for your right to privacy, whereas a Mandela endures decades of inhuman and degrading cruelty for your right to self-determination, there’s no point comparing their nobility or courage or virtue. We can’t survive without either one of them. We need many more of their ilk. Here’s how self-evident this truth is:

    http://www.humanrights.gov/2013/06/10/the-u-s-greatly-values-the-work-of-human-rights-defenders-around-the-world/

    Even the criminal officials of the USA can’t deny it.

    The civilized world has thought hard about how to keep rights defenders alive and free. NGOs, the OAS, the EU and the international community are developing protective norms and institutions because everyone knows that criminal states try to destroy their rights defenders. Everyone in the world knows that rights defenders must prevail over criminal states. That’s why the world can’t ever wash its hands of Snowden.

  41. Alan Campbell

    26 Jun, 2013 - 12:34 am

    He was a disappointment when it came to confronting the problem of HIV/AIDS.

  42. America is stirring; smoldering from a grass-roots spark of sorrow, grief, even pain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PxEuYUUMJI

    Every star on the American flag is now a corporate icon yet situated at the core of each white star are distilled human pools of multicultural innovation, discovery, science and community.

    America is quiescent, her latent ‘spring’ is evolving.

  43. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    26 Jun, 2013 - 1:31 am

    Mark; your prose has been much maligned recently, by persons not worthy of mention, and I would just like to say your style is like mine. BTIM similar in that you place alliteration on the altar it deserves.

  44. Flaming June

    26 Jun, 2013 - 5:49 am

    There is a strong reaction from Nigeria and India on the ConDem plan (which copies the Australian model) by taking £3,000 from visitors to this country which would be confiscated if they overstay.

    India, Nigeria warn UK over plans to make visitors pay £3,000 bond
    http://world.myjoyonline.com/pages/africa/201306/108472.php

    The other day, it was reported that foreign students are feeling unwelcome here.

    I see Ghana is in the list of countries Craig.

    Shut all the doors. Close down the ports and airports. We don’t want any foreigners here unless they are war criminals or rich oligarchs.

  45. “Mrs Thatcher was supporting the South African Zulu leader, “Mangosuthu Buthelezi, as an alternative to the ANC. British intelligence (MI6) agents took the ANC more seriously.” Mark Golding. 9:37pm, 25.6.13

    Yes, that seems likely. And the aim is to have irons in all fires. And it’s not just Tomlinson, btw. One might – charitably – say that it makes sense from most points of view to develop relationships, keep open channels of communication, with potential post-colonial leaders. But we know what SIS is about, don’t we, and so ought we to adopt the charitable interpretation wrt their activities relating to Mandela? When might ‘channels of communication’ turn into long-term ‘agent (of influence) running’?

    The economics was/is the main problem with the new South Africa. It didn’t have to be that way. It’s sad that one of the main reasons why South Africa got freedom (this is why the USA/UK decided it was time and told De Klerk so) when it did was the imminent collapse of the USSR (the so-called – ludicrously-termed, ‘end of history’), the end, for a time, of the bi-polar world, and of course the new Latin American bloc had not yet come into being. Otherwise, South Africa could’ve formed a bloc with Venezuela, Brazil et al. The current Lula-onwards Brazil model would be esp. pertinent. It could still do that – but won’t, as the leadership snouts are deep in the trough.

  46. The hope for South Africa remains, whether the continution of independace remains, the power of the corporations and international markets with out doubt shape the demographics. Excellence can be achieved there in South Africa and. the human rights of all should dignify these changes.

    Some responsive ideas and mass market intervention may better the sometimes wayward decisions of the individual. All the tools for manipulation are available, where are the directives to promote excellence in such an exciting country as Africa.

    Let’s hope Bilderbergers are in touch with historical town and country planning.

  47. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jun, 2013 - 7:49 am

    “There is a strong reaction from Nigeria and India on the ConDem plan (which copies the Australian model) by taking £3,000 from visitors to this country which would be confiscated if they overstay……Shut all the doors. Close down the ports and airports. We don’t want any foreigners here unless they are war criminals or rich oligarchs”
    _______________

    No, it’s not a question of closing down anything. Foreigners of all kinds continue to be welcome but it is not unreasonable to expect them to respect the terms under which they were granted entry, is it? Therefore any govt action towards that end is surely to be welcomed.

  48. Am I living on another planet where FlamingJune isn’t the worse person in the world? Why regular posters join in with the trolls is beyond me. You are mugs. Childish bullying mugs, falling for aggressive pr.

    That may have been intended for me. Not guilty. Check the link!

    For the record: I think our resident stalker’s relentless trolling of F.J. is deplorable, particularly as most of the substance* of most of his posts consists of criticism of other posters’ efforts while the rest of it generally attempts to justify his own breaches of the rules he applies to the rest of us. All unsubstantiated by anything other than his own opinion. Unfortunately he is the beneficiary of Craig’s commitment to free speech and must be endured or skipped lightly past.

    It is unfortunately impossible to ensure that all my opinions are in direct conflict with the stalker’s, however. If he says something sensible, I am not about to deny it on principle. This should not be interpreted as support for his activities.

    *wrong word.

  49. Unapologetically off topic:

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/lawmakers-unveil-bill-seeking-to-bolster-israel-s-jewish-identity.premium-1.532035

    Theocratic apartheid state consolidates its antidemocratic policy.

  50. Possible reason for the above:
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/oecd-report-education-system-in-israel-lags-behind-other-developed-countries.premium-1.532039

    Looks like that’s Gove’s model for our system. Looks like it doesn’t work.

  51. Komodo
    “That may have been intended for me. Not guilty.”

    No it wasn’t intended for you. I certainly don’t think you run with the crowd. However, I disagree with your approach to the stalker. One shouldn’t be nice to a stalker just because he takes a quick break and brown noses one. One should only be nice to a stalker when he stops stalking.

  52. Sowetans on Mandela here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/gallery/2013/jun/25/southafrica#/?picture=411531047&index=11

    “Before Nelson Mandela came to power we hated the whites. He taught us to forgive, forget and move forward. He taught us to use our mind, to look for the skills in others, to learn them, and then to teach those skills to others.”

    We could do with a Mandela or two here, perhaps.

  53. Phil – thanks for clarifying. But I’m not saying anyone should be nice to it. I’m saying that they should ignore it, and perhaps with special care when it starts brown-nosing. What it craves is attention. And it’s got more than it deserves from me!

  54. Komodo
    “Unfortunately he is the beneficiary of Craig’s commitment to free speech and must be endured or skipped lightly past.”

    Has Craig actually said this?

    It is totally misplaced sentiment. The stalker’s behaviour is akin to a representative from shell gatecrashing a greens meeting and endlessly shouting shite through a megaphone. Worse, the representative from shell is following one person screasming abuse in her ear. You wouldn’t have it. You would kick him out.

    To tolerate such behaviour is not defending a principle of free speech. Even if free speech were the issue how about the right of us the talk without endless obvious professional disruption.

    To tolerate such behaviour is failing to confront propaganda. It is a weakness that devalues this blog.

    I am amazed regulars are falling for a divide and disrupt tactic that they almost certainly condemn in other situations. Sure you might not like Mary but to join in with the stalkers assault on her is despicable. Don’t humour him. Don’t, from a deep seated need to be liked, think “ooh he said something nice so perhaps if I am nice we can all get on”. It won’t happen. He/they are here to disrupt. You fall for his game if you do anything except challenge his behaviour.

    Craig and Jon need to deal with this.

    Again, this isn’t aimed at you K.

  55. Phil
    “The stalker’s behaviour is akin to a representative from shell gatecrashing a greens meeting and endlessly shouting shite through a megaphone.”

    Until it gets to the stage where any visitor to the meeting only hears some prick screaming shit down a megaphone with a few people shouting back. Exactly like I am. And so the issues are lost. Which is exactly what the man from shell wants.

    Craig and Jon need to deal with this.

  56. Thanks for that last link Mark Golding, a good point is being made. Whilst we are all concentrating on and feeling for Ed Snowden, The western powers are shifting arms into Syria at an unprecedented rate.

    Labours Ed Milliband and his ballsy sidekick, Mr. ‘yes we will meet the goading spending round announcements of the Tory’s', even if a spending cuts review is not due have been to a COBRA briefing with the Cons. They are preparing for war.

    Now those who would have seen the picture June posted here of Obama and Putin totally ignoring each other, would have seen that communications have already broken down seriously.

    As the western NSA stooges are being berated over their all out spy programs by their populations and Governments like Germany, the leaders and string pullers have decided to call Putins bluff.

    I don’t think that Putin would like to be seen as a stooge of the west, bending over to accommodate the criminals that are being sold to us as rebel’s, Saudi and Quatari mercenaries that have destroyed Syria and its past historical fabric, an ancient civilisation turned to rubble by a western agenda that is trying hard to divert attention from its unsustainable and flagging economies.

    If Syria is attacked and the conflict spreads from Lebanon to Egypt and further, then we have WW3 with all its pre planned thermonuclear exchanges on our doorstep, indeed some say its already here.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10140767/John-Hutton-Arm-the-Syrian-rebels.html

    We should watch out and inquire whether they are equipping nuclear shelters, usually situated near county councils, in order to save those who got us to this point in time.

  57. I concur with Phil, Komodo, there comes a time when perfidious nonchalance comes second to grating away and personalised attacks and its not for everyone to ignore insult and personalised stalking.

    Craig has indulged it, for whatever reason and this socio opera has and will carry on.

    Personally I think that it is well known to Craig and that he is an ex employee of the FO, playing footsie, but being not very clever at it.

  58. It has not been noted that the intended £3,000 bond which visitors to this country will have to pay, and then lose if they overstay, is aimed at people with predominantly brown skin. They are described as ‘high risk’ countries.

    This engenders the growing racist atmosphere being directed at Muslims. Overnight swastikas have been sprayed on a mosque under construction which follows the small bomb left at another, the fire which destroyed another and the attempted arson at a Muslim boarding school.

    It is a nasty move by May and her cohort. Trust her Minister for Immigration is recovering from his fall.

  59. It is totally misplaced sentiment. The stalker’s behaviour is akin to a representative from shell gatecrashing a greens meeting and endlessly shouting shite through a megaphone. Worse, the representative from shell is following one person screasming abuse in her ear. You wouldn’t have it. You would kick him out.

    To tolerate such behaviour is not defending a principle of free speech. Even if free speech were the issue how about the right of us the talk without endless obvious professional disruption.

    To tolerate such behaviour is failing to confront propaganda. It is a weakness that devalues this blog.

    I completely agree. But it isn’t my blog. I’m just a commentator. If Craig wants drunks at his party, that’s entirely up to him.

    Past comments from Craig, Jon and Clark – can’t point to them, sorry, but if my memory serves – pretty firmly stated that something like the much-censored Grauniad’s CiF was not a desirable model, and with the exception of (sensu stricto) antisemitism, and extended rants of interest only to the close acquaintances of the ranter, not a lot gets purged. This is a rare policy on the web and I support it as a matter of principle, not logic…

    Also, if our chum were given the boot, it’s pretty certain he’d return with a new email address and a proxy IP, as he’s definitely on a mission.

    His typical response to Mary is along the lines of “there you are again, slagging off the Jews” when she mentions one, perfectly illustrating where he is coming from. My preferred response is to post a link or two to the detriment of Israel when he does this. Such links, up-to-date and from reliable – often Israeli – sources, are never hard to find. And usually damning.

  60. Phil People may not like me but in addition some do not like what I have to say and to report. ;)

  61. “Past comments from Craig, Jon and Clark – can’t point to them, sorry, but if my memory serves – pretty firmly stated that something like the much-censored Grauniad’s CiF was not a desirable model, and with the exception of (sensu stricto) antisemitism, and extended rants of interest only to the close acquaintances of the ranter, not a lot gets purged. This is a rare policy on the web and I support it as a matter of principle, not logic… ”

    It appears that quite a lot got “purged” last night on the Work for the UN thread. And some people are very unhappy about it.

  62. Re Mandela, I remember, in the 1980′s, the re-naming of St Georges Place in Glasgow to Nelson Mandela Place (the South African consulate was located there), & also the brilliant record by Jerry Dammers.

    But, as other commenter above have said, there was something not quite right about Mandela hobnobbin’ with Bono, Naomi Campbell & also policial leaders (what was the deal?) & also the business with his wife Winnie?

    I am sure that there are a lot of deeper reasons behind. In addition, in the spirit of truth & reconcilliation, I think we should be told about the British involvement with Wouter Basson & Project Coast, the top-secret chemical and biological weapons program of the South African government during the apartheid era.

    Andrew MacKinley tried to get some answers, but with not much luck.

  63. I’ll repost Jon on that very topic, Dreoilin:

    Hi all – ceasefire please!

    As I may have mentioned in the past, moderation here is very light, at Craig’s request. However the dynamic has changed over the last year or so, and the genesis of why is quite often hard to untangle. Could I put in a request for people to accept that, in the past, some discussions have gotten out of hand, and harsh words have been spoken. That need not provoke a tit-for-tat exchange, since that will only keep it going.

    Reluctantly, I will have to zap posts that are for the exclusive purpose of provocation. I should be most grateful if on old threads someone would pick a topic and invite civil discussion, or offer their thoughts on newer ones. I am sure we can get back to the old, enquiring, liberal spirit that we used to have here!

    Best wishes to all.

    I note who was doing the objecting. Suffice it to say.

  64. Komodo
    “..if our chum were given the boot, it’s pretty certain he’d return with a new email address and a proxy IP, as he’s definitely on a mission.”

    Yes that’s true. I am not a big commentator on blogs and I seem to recall someone here saying they used to comment somewhere else which had to close comments because of trolls (maybe even Mary on DV?). That would be terrible to happen here. Perhaps there is nothing Craig and Jon can do. In which case it falls on us to not join in with his games.

  65. Sorry to talk about the disruption here – I didn’t realise it was being addressed on another thread.

  66. Returning to what I am afraid are the last hours of a good man -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23061330

  67. Only 9,000 +/- ‘domestic extremists’ in ukgbni? ! – what a sorry showing for brits and irish allies

  68. P/b 25 jun 12,33
    ‘whorkhouse/worehouse’
    The work-shy – and those too bashfilled to brethlessly breath the gnomes of the hoarse whisperers of whom’s knames we are too fear phil’d 2 speak play filly – might yet find ways of subverting the prevailing …

  69. “the much-censored Grauniad’s CiF was not a desirable model”

    There are other models short of censorship. For example the nationalist blog ‘Wings Over Scotland’ has a no-moderation policy, but comments deemed to be malicious, irrelevant or abusive are moved to a ‘Quarantine’ thread. If you want to read them or engage with the poster you can go there. The creation of another sock puppet is an easily spotted ruse, and in any case if a new poster is clearly malicious he goes to quarantine anyway.

    There is some precedent for this here – Craig banished all discussion of ix/xi to its own thread some time ago.

    All philosophical discussions of free speech recognise that a line must be drawn somewhere. I’d suggest that the troll’s mindless attacks on a wholly imagined anti-semitism cross a line and, perversely, may tend to stimulate anti-semitism. Ergo, send him to quarantine for anti-semitism.

  70. Philosophical discussions of free speech …
    Starting points might include …
    Nazis in nasty Germany did indeed murder (less than the stock figure of …).

  71. Well I don’t know what his spiritual beliefs are but when he does die someday, it then surely and finally could be said that he is free. It is an unreasonable assumption to assume that SA must inevitably thereafter unravel into greater chaos; apartheid, and this late post-apartheid period are as a blink of an eye in the history of that place. I word though on diamonds, gold etc. these things infact have no intrinsic worth, beyond for each of us a few moments curiosity and inquiry, after which they are just more unexceptional clutter, I’m assured too that they’re inedible. The market, the prices paid for these items has no basis in logic, common-sense or real value, they are classic bubbles, irrational obsessions, crude futile attempts at storing wealth. Extracting them is a huge Keynsian job-creation program, even more jobs could be created by paying another set of people to bury them again.

  72. And when you type(caste) 2 qwickly u tend too …

  73. Craig with his painful spur (geeing up the GGs) in africa … and other ‘white niggers’ ($ic -please pradonmyfreespeech & …)

  74. And then i $hut the fuck up and left the rest of you to get on with (your essentially careerist selfserving ‘agendas’ …)

  75. Did Nelson Mandela know about, or was he informed over Dr. kelly’s SA escapades and DCs help in shifting these nukes?

    What will his death mean to SA and its neighbours, all those who were involved in past struggles of the ANC and have now seen how derailed it has become with corruption and infighting.

    With social strife and a split ANC, can we expect Mandela’s death to give rise to a new ANC, cleansed with new aims and objectives that are distinctive African and involve the nationalisation of all foreign owned mines and companies, why should a more African orientated faction not do the same Mugabe has done?

    This very likely will result in struggle and polarisation of opinions, pitching the have’s against the have nots, inside the party and in the wider public. Powerful interest can be expected to pay for their own security and other arrangements, they will support/sponsor Zuma and those who will follow him, with all the lavishing that can be done, in order to carry on exploiting SA.

  76. Nevermind …
    Did Nelson … know … ?
    Once you get in a position of mainstream power, you …

  77. So you guys migrated elsewhere before you could say? !

  78. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jun, 2013 - 4:56 pm

    This from Flaming June/Mary :

    “It has not been noted that the intended £3,000 bond which visitors to this country will have to pay, and then lose if they overstay, is aimed at people with predominantly brown skin. They are described as ‘high risk’ countries.

    This engenders the growing racist atmosphere being directed at Muslims”
    __________

    You are completely wrong. It has been noticed, or at least inferred.

    I think it is fairly clear to most people that the risk of someone from Africa, or the Indian sub-continent, or parts of Asia wishing to ‘overstay’ (in other words, get round immigration controls and stay in the UK to work) is greater – mainly for economic reasons – than it is from someone from Western Europen the USA and the white Commonwealth. Prevention of an offence has to be risk-focussed, I’m sure you’d agree.

    Furthermore, this has nothing to do with an ‘anti-Muslim’ agenda, as many of the potential overstayers are not Muslim but of other religions including the Christian one.

    If you accept that the state is entitled to take such measures as it sees fit to uphold the law but do not like the proposed arrangements, perhaps you would share with us your ideas on other measures which the govt should introduce in order to achieve this aim. You do not need to answer, of course, if you believe that there should be no controls on immigration an, specifically, overstaying.

    I look forward to engaging with you on this subject.

  79. Why do they call h (lveb) a ‘troll’ on this blog site?

  80. Flaming June

    26 Jun, 2013 - 6:09 pm

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/the-man-who-didnt-disappoint/#comment-414812

    Wrong thread. S/be on Pandering to Racism. The day I ‘engage’ with you it will snow blue ink. Nearly everybody has moved on.

  81. Come on Habbabkuk, Flaming June has invited you over to the latest thread. It must be snowing blue ink outside.

  82. “Furthermore, this has nothing to do with an ‘anti-Muslim’ agenda, as many of the potential overstayers are not Muslim but of other religions including the Christian one.”

    How can one rebut that as a FACT. Mary as usual getting carried away in her crusade, charging at the windmills?!

  83. @FlamingJune
    Telling him you will not engage is of course an engagement. Maybe now is a time to actually not engage. Do us all a favour. Just ignore it and let Jon act if Hab continues.

  84. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jun, 2013 - 7:50 pm

    @ Flaming June,

    “Wrong thread. S/be on Pandering to Racism. The day I ‘engage’ with you it will snow blue ink. Nearly everybody has moved on.”
    __________

    You are right – I posted here, in response to your post, before I noticed that a new, more appropriate thread had been started.

    But that doesn’t matter, surely. Please feel free to discuss with me (and others) and advance our examination of the subject in a constructive and friendly manner on that new thread.

    (I assume you are posting on this blog in order to discuss, debate with fellow contributors?)

  85. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)

    26 Jun, 2013 - 7:55 pm

    @ Phil

    “@FlamingJune
    Telling him you will not engage is of course an engagement.”
    ________

    With great respect, Phil, I don’t think that’s quite correct. My inclination would be to read it literally, as meaning that Flaming June has made a number of points which have been queried but declines, without explanation, to engage in further discussion on the subject she herself raised.

  86. To repeat (abrv): why do they/we call – the free spireted/thinker h. – A troll on this site/$ight?

  87. Re h (etc) do not respond to him, because it only encouraged further … (in other words, when debate is truly ‘free’ youdo not need to censor because …)

  88. Flaming June
    26 Jun, 2013 – 3:42 pm

    Someone in reply seemed to think it was a perfectly reasonable move!

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/the-man-who-didnt-disappoint/#comment-414655

    It was he:

    Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
    26 Jun, 2013 – 7:49 am

    “Foreigners of all kinds continue to be welcome but it is not unreasonable to expect them to respect the terms under which they were granted entry, is it?”

    “…to expect THEM (?)…to respect the terms under which they were granted entry…”

    THEM and US eh HB?

    What is unreasonable is to single out certain nationalities for disproportionate treatment in visa applications; that smacks of racism for political advantage.

  89. Singling out “certain nationalities” for selective criticism also smacks of racism. Sound familiar?

  90. “THEM and US eh HB?”

    I’d be rather stuck without the word “them”, Doug. I mean, it also applies to the tea bags I bought and couldn’t find when I got home …

    And what about rugby matches?

  91. Time for a bit of ‘prose’ me thinx.

    A ‘ways back’ I bared a ‘contributor’ here from insight. That ‘contributor’ persists today ostensibly under cover of genuine criticism but actually breaking the ‘flow’ of conversation. It is of course the same axiom of ‘divide and spread chaos’ we currently observe in Iraq and Libya.

    Aware of software elimination by name a second contributor was introduced to form the perfect see-saw entertainment to further distract and dislocate. The classic dual ‘squirrel’ effect.

    Enduring and connected presence here are acquainted and mindful of the technique, some are not.

  92. Authorities have not confirmed his death, The Guardian Express, wrote, reporting Mandela’s family is keeping hush about his death since President Obama will be visiting the country shortly and they don’t want the hero’s death to overshadow Obama’s stay.

    Utterly incongruous statement.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/did-nelson-mandela-die-twitter-grieves-hero-posts-morgan-freeman-picture-1325001#

  93. Re. Flaming June, stalking of:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/27/israel-central-bank-chief-israel-should-bolster-palestinians-to-help-create/

    …independent state.

    Even the bankers are uneasy.

  94. Enduring and connected presence here are acquainted and mindful of the technique, some are not.

    The tag team has been operating pretty regularly and has at times had more help too. At times the thread is a series of serial nonsense, that is spewed all in the aid of suppressing the truth, and giving a skewed and unrealistic snapshot of the ranges of opinions, and lines of thought.

    The team is here on a mission to distort the lines of communication, whilst portraying the current group think as the only prevailing “range of opinions”, that in turn feeds the imperatives of the tribe. The trend of “contributions” by these keyboard warriors are; get back into line and fall behind your government! Fact that those commenting here and elsewhere have long given up on the troughers, masquerading as their “government” makes little difference to the pusillanimous culprits on a mission. The tag team is out to catch the eyes of the occasional useful idiot, or the usual pundits, who will be sifting through to pick up the nonsense spewed, to validate the current counter productive and bombastic soundbites passed as “policy”.

  95. I think one of the greatest motivators of people to act out of the ordinary or beyond expected or easily predictable -controlled behaviour, is false hope and subsequent betrayal; Blair, Cameron, Obama being blinding examples. We’ve learned that Edward Snowden donated some money to Ron Paul’s presidential campaign only for Paul to pull out of that race, leaving no credible (however repugnant and disastrous some of his policies would have turned out) alternative to the indistinguishable Democrat and Republican partners-in-crime.

    Clement Attlee delivered to a certain extent, otherwise the Labour party’s standing would have dissipated and never recovered, they’d never have never achieved government again and Britain’s simmering class war would have boiled over by the late fifties or early sixties, into insurrection and revolution, if pre-war inequality had not been temporarily relieved.

    It took till the early seventies for the flash in the pan that Labour represented, the bait and switch trickery to become apparent; has taken the intervening period for that heady brew of latent fury to coalesce again. Thatcher laid on fuel enough for an almighty inextinguishable conflagration, stirred the pot, and the Blair creature crept onto the scene to ignite the fuses. All that remains is to stand back, retire to safety and watch the show.

  96. Crytogram/passerby
    You are on great form … but who(m) is paying attention?!
    Phil t

  97. Courtenay Barnett

    28 Jun, 2013 - 10:44 pm

    @ Abe,

    You say:-

    ” I grant you, he was a nice chap apart from holding hands with Col Gaddafi and calling him “My brathah leadah!”

    So – without Cuban and Libyan help, if one were to rely on the supportive that Thatcher and Reagan gave to the racists – we would still have Apartheid today and you would be a happy man Abe – because ” brathah leadah!” and Fidel had not assisted when critical assistance was needed. You tell me?

  98. ”holding hands with Col Gaddafi and calling him “My brathah leadah!

    This all too apparent attempt in sullying the reputation of a man who despite the inhumane treatment that he was subjected to at the hands of his captors, never gave up to his humanity. This is an infantile and futile effort of an imbecile.

    Fact that Mandela ended the South African Apartheid and laid the grounds for the South Africans to shun the other apartheid regime in the mid east is a grave crime that those rooting for the apartheid regimes will never forgive.

    Seldom a man has commanded so much respect, and seldom a man has proved to be deserving of that respect, as in case of Mandela. Alas Mandela’s humanity also entails his mortality. However none can reduce the stature of the tall black man who broke so many shackles and prison walls, yet he preserved his humanity.

  99. I was reluctant to be the 1 who posted the ($ub)orwellian room 101 posting on this blossg site/sight. Why i wonddeer?! Phil t ss

  100. So many shackles but …

  101. BrianFujisan

    29 Jun, 2013 - 7:58 pm

    The Hypocrisy Of the White house mob stoop to new Lows

    How dare this Phoney Nobel Peace prize winning War criminal Even think he can stand by the Ailing Mandela’s bed…if Mandela hasn’t the strength left in his ( GENUINE Nobel Peace Prize) Body, to tell Obama off…then.. Fuck that..Vile piece of Opportunism

    Anti-Obama Protests threaten to derail White House’s planned Mandela Photo-op

    In Pretoria, hundreds of people were demonstrating today against a visit by U.S. President Barack Obama, burning the U.S. flag in protest and calling out Obama as “arrogant and oppressive”.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/anti-obama-protests-threaten-to-derail-white-houses-planned-mandela-photo-op/5340933

  102. His hands may have been tied to some extent by fears of a military coup or civil war if he made major reforms, but unfortunately he did disappoint badly in some ways. South Africa today is just as unequal and has just as much severe poverty as it did under Apartheid and the government is just as corrupt. The only difference now is that some of the government, the super-rich and the middle class are black and some of the poorest are white. The majority of black people in South Africa still live in dire poverty many without even clean water.

    Mandela also referred to the Ken Saro Wiwa case as an internal matter for Nigeria and kept approving arms sales to the Nigerian military until after Saro Wiwa was executed and it became a major media focus.

  103. I still think he’s basically a very decent person and he was already a pensioner by the time he was released from jail. Maybe he no longer had the energy left to do more than compromise as best he could.

  104. Good posts, Duncan (10:33pm and 10:35pm). Yes, I agree. This was the time, remember, of US triumphalism – there was seen to be (and they and the UK/the West made damn sure there was) no alternative to neoliberal economics. The new trend in South America was some years away and China’s rise as a capitalist powerhouse was in its relatively early stages, the USSR/Russia was breaking up and in disarray. These are the major international geopolitical reasons why it was deemed safe to grant non-white South Africans their freedom at that historical juncture. The internal political chaos, of course, was making it more and more difficult for business. So it was a combination of things. Accordingly, Mandela was freed, yet he was not free. So, too, with the non-white working class South African majority. It’s called neocolonialism, with the construction of the usual native elites. Still, it’s sad that the senior cadres of the ANC proved so easily corruptible.

  105. I’m not minimising the anti-apartheid struggle nor the terrible sacrifices of so many in the struggle, especially in South Africa itself. It is their struggle that has been betrayed and some of those doing the betraying also struggled; this is one of the ironies of human nature – but who am I to judge?

  106. Flaming June

    30 Jun, 2013 - 3:46 pm

    Obomber goes to Robben Island and is ‘deeply humbled’. Has he ever visited Guantanamo, any of his SuperMax prisons or the prison where Bradley Manning was held, Quantico, or where he is now incarcerated, Fort Leavenworth?

    What a hypocrite he is with his empty rhetoric. Stop wasting fossil fuel Obomber and get back to where you belong, a country with its people leading unsustainable lives. All the air conditioners are going full blast at the moment consuming energy which has necessitated bloody wars for oil and dominance.

    http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/worlds-most-evil-and-lawless-institution/

  107. Slightly off topic, but I see O’Bomber has been walking around Robben Island – presumably trying to pick up a few tips.

    “It all looks a bit mamby-pamby to me Michelle. Where’d they used to water board ‘em?

  108. I suppose you could call Mandela “Christ-like” with some justification if Jesus Christ had been born a morganatic royal, signed an enormous arms deal with the Roman Empire shortly after becoming president (the one Mandela signed was second only to al-Yamamah, I seem to recall – we’re talking massive kickbacks), welcomed Herod’s chief henchmen into his administration, and married his daughter upwards, into (non-morganatic) royalty.

    Mandela was probably an MI6 asset for decades.

    No, wait a minute, there was a denial: “I never visited the headquarters of any intelligence service,” he told the Guardian [...].

    So that nails that one, then. What a nasty rumour against what an honourable man, eh?

    By the time he was arrested and jailed in August 1962, Mr Mandela had still not made contact with any British diplomat or agent: “I don’t think they knew I existed,” he said [...].

    No, ‘course they didn’t, mate.

    Never mind the fact that life for most black people in South Africa hasn’t got any better since Nelson walked to the football stadium. Let’s not allow facts to stand in the way when we’re supposed to be recognising the messiah.

  109. N_ at 1:32 and 1:33 am on 4.7.13: I agree.

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