The Propaganda of Death

by craig on March 10, 2014 9:34 am in Uncategorized

The terrible loss of life in the Malaysian air crash is tragic.  But the attempt to ramp up a terrorism scare is ghoulish.  We even had both the BBC and Sky speculating that it was the Uighurs.  Now the suppression of Uighur culture and religion by the Chinese had been a great and long-term evil, and the West has been only too eager to shoehorn their story into the “Islamic terrorism” story.  There is of course an enormous security industry, both government and private, which makes a very fat living out of “combating Islamic terrorism”, and a media  which make a fat living out of helping to ramp it.  Their spreading of fear has been extraordinarily successful given that Islamic terrorism is an extraordinarily low level threat and people throughout the Western world are vastly more likely to drown in their own bath than be killed by an Islamic terrorist.  Indeed you are about 1,000 times more likely to be killed by a member of your own family than by an Islamic terrorist, though the risk of either is extremely slim.

The media uncritically trotted out the story that it was Uighur terrorists who were responsible for the dreadful knife attack at a Chinese railway station – with no evidence except that the Chinese government say so.  Only when they impugn the Uighurs does the western media drop its wary disbelief of statements from the Chinese government.

There is no evidence at all that the Malaysian plane was brought down by terrorists.  The Air France plane crash in 2009, for example, was caused by ice crystals in the pitot tubes giving incorrect air speed readings to the autopilot – this was because the plane had been incorrectly cleaned with a pressure hose rather than damp cloths.  Most air crashes are caused by faulty maintenance procedures. [A number of people have since commented that pilot error is a more frequent cause.  They may be right - but Uighur terrorists it ain't].

The two people on board with false passports were routed on to Amsterdam, and the obvious explanation is that they were illegal immigrants who had bought stolen passports.  This is very common indeed.  I know from my own diplomatic experience that passports frequently have to be replaced by tourists who no longer have them.  I also know (and I do not refer to the specific individuals referred here) that very frequently indeed the person who has “lost” the passport has sold it.  At tourist hotspots likely people are often approached to sell their passport, (about US$600 is the going rate for an EU passport) and then declare it stolen and apply for a new one.  It is a scam you encounter frequently in backpacking destinations, Thailand being a key example.

It is a peculiar kind of terrorism which does not seek to claim “credit” or publicise what has been done..  No suicide videos have emerged.  That the Uighurs would attack a plane from a state of their fellow Muslims is a ludicrous claim.  Do not be taken in by the Ministry of Fear and its media lackeys.

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155 Comments

  1. While most plane crashes are tragic accidents not all are. A clue to whether the Malaysian disaster was a tragic accident or pre-planned may be found in the passenger list. This list of politicians killed in crashes is, as it says, very incomplete.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-the-new-cold-war-heats-up/5372694

    The one passenger many avoid mentioning is Bernt Carlsson who was killed in the Lockerbie crash.

    While this may be an accident I think we need to wait and see what evidence is found. The test is whether any evidence is given proper scrutiny. It may be a false flag, blaming others to create an issue.

    But I do agree that we should not believe the media and its lackeys especially after the way the Ukraine crisis has been presented.

  2. Thank you for writing this!

    My first thoughts on hearing this news, were:
    - how can they claim terrorism when the plane has not even been found yet?
    - why on earth are the Americans investigating whether a Malaysian plane crash is terrorism?
    - if the Americans are investigating this crash as a possible terrorist attack, then stakes are high that it WILL be spun as a terrorist attack – by Evil Muslims, naturally.

  3. The media gave no hint as to the expected number of passengers travelling with fake passports on normal flights. We need to wait
    for analysis such as on BBC’s ‘More or Less’ which examines how
    media handle numbers.

  4. Spot on Craig.

    Thank you.

  5. David Sillitoe

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:35 am

    Re the Air France crash, it’s “pitot tubes”, not “pilot”, and do you have a source for the theory that incorrect cleaning caused a fault?

  6. Completely agree with the majority of your article – if I recall correctly, when the Air France 447 plane crashed there was speculation that there were two people on board with links to terrorist activity. Ultimately, this had absolutely nothing to do with the crash.

    In relation to your comment about the pitot tubes not being cleaned correctly, which in turn caused the crash – is this correct? I was under the impression that while the pitot tubes, though they failed and provided false airspeed readings, it was in fact ‘simple but persistent human error’ that was the most direct cause of the crash. Indeed, my information is coming from Wikipedia, so it might not be the most accurate.

  7. David Sillitot

    Thanks, amended. Yes, it was an episode of “Air Crash Investigation” on the National Geographic Channel. They reported there was a recreation of cleaning the panel with the pitot tube in with a hose, then putting the panel in a freezer. I accept that can’t definitively prove the theory. Anyway, main point is it was not terrorism. Planes do crash.

  8. I had to laugh yesterday when Trowbridge provided the counter conspiracy theory in double quick time.

  9. “The Air France plane crash in 2009, for example, was caused by ice crystals in the pitot tubes giving incorrect air speed readings to the autopilot – this was because the plane had been incorrectly cleaned with a pressure hose rather than damp cloths. Most air crashes are caused by faulty maintenance procedures.”

    Utter rubbish on just about all counts. Try reading the official crash report. Very few crashes are directly caused by bad maintenance. I suggest you look at official statistics before coming out with such misleading and ignorant statements.

  10. David Sims

    Really? What is the major cause of air crashes then?

  11. “Most air crashes are caused by faulty maintenance procedures.”

    Are you sure about this? It’s a topic that has been studied in huge detail, and my understanding is that pilot fatigue (and error) and miscommunications with air traffic controllers are far more common factors.

  12. On the topic of governmental shenanigans, nobody ever queried why there were THREE holes in “jihad video” bomber Khans solo Edgeware carriage, and nowhere near where he was seated anyways. No autopsies either,all injuries were to lower limbs, unless the muzzies were wearing feetpacks instead of backpacks. Bliar.

  13. Rachael, Ed,

    Thanks. I wonder if pilot error is becoming less frequent a cause now, given the sophistication of the planes and the extent to which they fly themselves? Would a 10 year study give the same result as a fifty year study? I also wonder whether blaming the pilot is not the easiest way out for manufacturers and airlines, who are able to influence the feed of data to the investigators.

    Anyway, let me accept your statement that pilot error is the most common cause. Not, however, Uighur terrorists.

  14. Ba'al Zevul ( Il burattino!)

    10 Mar, 2014 - 11:57 am

    The presumption seems to be that there was a good bit of pilot error/bad training involved in the Air France crash

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/what-does-air-france-447-tell-us-about-missing-malaysian-n47846

    Not very well written (‘censor’ for ‘sensor’, etc) but the conclusions are there. Precisely the wrong response to a possibly spurious warning as even a learner glider pilot would know…

  15. Excellent article. Thank you for taking the time to write this important piece.

  16. “The presumption seems to be that there was a good bit of pilot error/bad training involved in the Air France crash ”

    Indeed. The real reason the aircraft was lost was the crew’s inability to deal with the failure of the pitot tubes rather than the failure itself.

    Back on topic newpapers and the media generally love to indulge in wild speculation and the more lurid the better. I tend not to take any notice.

  17. Yes, it is deeply depressing to see people fall for this patently phoney terror threat. I remember during the time of the IRA bombings they told us to carry on with our daily lives and maintain a sense of proportion. They told us to stay calm. Today they tell us to be scared. Tony Blair’s tanks at Heathrow still takes the biscuit though.

  18. what we are being told is usually lies, it can never be an air plane fault. so it must be pilot error or terrorism.

    what is the truth about Ukraine?

  19. Just the expected cheap shot from you ‘ELSO, as I have been working on the sabotaged Asiana Flight 214 since it happened, and you can find the thread on The Local in Sweden if you look.

    This just looks to me to be successfull repeat of that failed effort to kill all those Chinese on board back then.

  20. John Goss at 9:59 am said: “While most plane crashes are tragic accidents not all are. A clue to whether the Malaysian disaster was a tragic accident or pre-planned may be found in the passenger list. This list of politicians killed in crashes is, as it says, very incomplete. The one passenger many avoid mentioning is Bernt Carlsson who was killed in the Lockerbie crash.”

    John, could you please confirm the correct url for the “list of politicians killed in plane disasters”.

  21. An excellent Piece Craig……

    I was saying they same thing to a friend yesterday re bbc Hints about Terrorism…false passports… you have thrown some new light on this Re passports, the Uighurs Thanks.

    I’ve been trying to look into a report that there was a communication with another aircraft 30 or so moments before it disappeared.

  22. The incomplete passengers lists of the four 9/11 planes are quite relevant to the tragedy, as they leave out the 15 unarmed agents, probably CIA ones, but possibly ones of Meir Dagan’s Mossad, but trying to link Bernt Carlsson to the Palme assassination because of what he apparently knew, and was involved in telling, seems a non-starter because the Anglo-Americans killed the statsminister, not the South Africans.

  23. Just to add to the existing comments about the Air France crash. All the reports I’ve read indicate it was the pilot’s inability to deal with the instrument reading error caused by the pitot tubes freezing up, compounded by a number of other facts – captain was resting and the most inexperienced pilot was the one who made the bad decision that pull the plane into stall (he raised the nose when he should have lowered it); his mistake wasn’t picked up by the captain until they were so close to the ocean that it was too late to correct.

    Craig, your point that: “I wonder if pilot error is becoming less frequent a cause now, given the sophistication of the planes and the extent to which they fly themselves?” is an interesting one because in the Air France case the pitot tubes caused the autopilot to cut out and the co-pilot was then unable to cope. It actually suggests that pilots may be TOO reliant on software/autopilot systems and perhaps complacency creeps in. In any case, I’m sure that training procedures have been changed in light of Air France.

  24. Dude in the Hangar

    10 Mar, 2014 - 1:04 pm

    Craig,
    I hate to say this but you’re going to look a right tit.

    Aircraft flown by high quality international carriers like MAS do not disintegrate at 35,000ft from mechanical error in perfect weather and with a highly experienced aircrew.

    There is no parallel with Air France flight 447
    - Meteorological conditions were the exact opposite
    - MH370 had a very experienced flight crew (unlike AF447)
    - The Boeing 777 flown by MAS is magnitudes safer than the Airbus 330

    The glaringly obvious can not be obfuscated by defaming an Airline or its deceased pilots.

  25. Ba'al Zevul ( Il burattino!)

    10 Mar, 2014 - 1:07 pm

    Have you spoken to the pilots of Asiana 214, Trowbridge? They seem to be rather convinced that they had cocked up.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/what-weve-learned-so-far-from-the-asiana-flight-214-investigation-16264162

    ‘the auto-throttle changed from “thrust” to “hold” at an altitude of 1600 feet. The report also included testimony from the pilot’s colleagues who said the trainee, Lee Gang Guk, had been warned that the auto-throttle doesn’t always re-engage as it should after going into the hold mode. Representatives from Boeing and the other aviation companies present also made the point that the onus is on the pilot to transition to a visual landing in such a situation.’

    And -

    ‘Overall, simulators are generally regarded as having raised the safety performance of airlines over the last few decades because of their accuracy in replicating the experience of flying through dangerous conditions that many pilots may rarely if ever encounter on the job. But the pilots aboard the 777, who received most of their training in simulators, said they hadn’t had enough manual training in landing the plane at an airport such as San Francisco, known for its challenging conditions.’

    Ascribing demonstrable cockups to malign intervention by terrorists (whether ‘theirs’ or ‘ours’) is an ace way of raising public paranoia, just as Craig says. Which I guess means Trowbridge is firmly on the side of the authorities. At last! My very own conspiracy theory!

  26. “This just looks to me to be successfull repeat of that failed effort to kill all those Chinese on board back then.”

    This speaks volumes for your research methods.

  27. Good post Craig- the various ‘terrorist scenarios’ being pushed by the securicrats all seem pretty far fetched to me.

    The scenario you outline in para 4 seems much more likely, given that Amsterdam was the final destination for the 2 travellers alleged to be carrying false passports. There is a large Indonesian descended population in the Netherlands, and it is likely that flights originating from there get greater scrutiny from Dutch immigration (eg high tech scanners to check for false passports). However I doubt if the Schiphol authorities have enough of these to apply to all passengers arriving from SE Asia, so if an Indonesian wishes to enter the Netherlands illegally, it probably makes sense to start the journey from another ASEAN country, taking advantage of the visa free travel arrangements that now apply-

    http://www.aseanvisa.com/malaysia/malaysia-visa.html

  28. Certainly, quite wrong when sabotage is left out, blaming pilot error instead.

    In the three accidents I have investigated – that of the Sukoi 100 which flew into that olacano in Indonesia, the one at SFO, and this one all seem to be the result of sabotage.

    The Sukoi had an in cabin failure, apparent the air conditioning system to fail, and the pilot descending 3,500 feet without any person or explanation, and then crashing into the mountain during the resulting confusion was the result of foul play, as are the crashes of the two Boeing 777s.

  29. No evidence of any sort yet. So all media speculation is just that; including, of course, ill researched blogs like this.

  30. Ba'al Zevul ( Il burattino!)

    10 Mar, 2014 - 1:27 pm

    ‘Aircraft flown by high quality international carriers like MAS do not disintegrate at 35,000ft from mechanical error in perfect weather and with a highly experienced aircrew.’

    OTOH it remains to be demonstrated that the aircraft disintegrated at altitude – which would certainly imply an explosion as one possible cause, and no more than that. Too many theories, not enough data.

  31. Sadly, the odds on this being sabotage, as opposed to technical or pilot error, may have just shortened, if the quote that the Beeb attributes to a Malaysian aviation chief here is correct-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26513506#

  32. Well, ELSO, I have had about 30 articles published in referred journals like History, Bulletin of the Institute of Historical Research, Government & Opposition, Political Studies, Irish Historical Studies, Studia Hibernica,,Eire-Ireland, Durham University Journal, Comparative Politics, Studies, etc. about the plots surrounding the careers of Henry Brougham, A, V Dicey, and others. plus biographies of the two men.

    Who are you, and what have you done?

  33. Ba'al Zevul ( Il burattino!)

    10 Mar, 2014 - 1:48 pm

    The Durham University Journal – for historians – closed in 1995. Studia Hibernica is the Irish studies journal issued annually by St Patrick’s College, Drumcondra. Neither the college nor the journal, nor any other listed here, has any connection with aviation issues.

    Irrelevant.

  34. Beg to differ as the articles had a lot to do with plotting and plots – what these conspiracies pertain to.

    I research what men do with machines, weapons, and words.

  35. “Stolen passports used to board missing Malaysian flight were in Interpol database, but no one checked”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/03/09/220670/stolen-passports-used-to-board.html

    Interpol however say that very few airlines consistently use its database.

    Any significance in two non-Asian passengers travelling together on stolen passports, buying tickets at same time and place but with differing final destinations, Copenhagen and Frankfurt?

    “At least two of the passengers were travelling using false identities. An Austrian listed in the manifest had reported his passport stolen in 2012 and an Italian listed in the manifest had reported his passport stolen in August 2013; both were stolen in Thailand. This came to light when attempts were made to locate their next of kin; both men have been confirmed safe.[1][77] The tickets bought by the holders of those stolen passports were sold by China Southern Airlines.[78] The two tickets were bought at the same time and issued by a travel agent in Pattaya, Thailand, two days before the flight. The two itineraries begin in Kuala Lumpur and continue via Beijing to Amsterdam. Then the itinerary for the Italian passport holder continues to Copenhagen while the other itinerary for the Austrian passport holder continues to Frankfurt.[79] Malaysian immigration officials failed to question the passengers travelling on the stolen European passports. Interpol confirmed that only very few countries consistently use its stolen passport data base”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370

  36. The failure of the aviation experts, the media and most posters here to deal with what is an unprecedented crash is quite pathetic as it shows their inability to deal with reality – they are like the relatives of those killed, hanging around the airports, hoping that they will be told that it isn’t so.

    Instead of being like even the DM this time where the lack of signals and wreckage is treated as if there are no clues, they should be talking about how a scheduled plane with 239 passengers on board could possibly have disappeared.

    The obvious answer is that it and they were essentially vaporized, and then the question is how can this happen, when the Pentagon says that there was no explosion. .

    The answer must be that the plane was sabotaged in such a way that this could happen: a bolt of lightning was manufactured on the cruising plane, causing it to become so unstable that it soon disintegrated.

    Only a bolt which followed a beam back into the plane, especially its cabin, could have done this, as fuselages are protected against such bolts hitting them naturally.

    Just concentrate on finding the cockpit voice recorder as it contains the only information now about what really happened.

  37. Sorry Patrick, I must have copied the wrong link. This relates to the first comment on this post. Apologies to all. This list of politicians killed in crashes is, as it says, very incomplete.

    http://politicalgraveyard.com/death/aircraft.html

    Bernt Carlsson, who was killed in the Lockerbie air disaster is not on the incomplete list. And still no independent inquiry.

  38. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 3:08 pm

    Craig

    You make several good points, but the rather vehement tone of your post is only justified if the UK media have really been seeking to present this as an instance of (Islamic) terrorism.

    Now I don’t know if that’s the case, but the little British Sunday press I’ve seen certainly didn’t seem to be doing that: my impression was that they were putting it forward as only one of a number of hypotheses and without any particular emphasis. That is certainly how the continental European press is commenting today.

  39. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 3:14 pm

    I’ve now started reading the comments.

    The very first one – from Tovarish Goss – immediately diverts into (1) Lockerbie and (2) Ukraine.

    Of course.

    I’d naively thought that the theme of Craig’s post was the way in which “Islamic terrorism” is ramped up by the press whenever and wherever possible.

    I’ll obviously have to read Craig’s article again.

  40. Herbie @2.18

    The link to the info on Wikipedia (if reliable) concerning the 2 guys on false passports makes the illegal immigration connection Craig floated, and I endorsed a while back, most unlikely.

    However Pattaya heaves with dodgy ex Pats from Europe, ex Air America retirees, and shady characters from all over the Mid East (Israel, Iran, & the Gulf states) so if the trail of the false passports leads back there it could mean anything – or nothing.

  41. The plane seems to have crashed and nobody knows where.
    This is understandable and not as mysterious as everyone is trying to say.

    AF447 was the same but fortunately as we had ACARS data showing the technical problems of the aircraft (47 signals) we were able to have immediately an idea of what went wrong and where about the aircraft is.

    And yes, the main reason of the AF447 crash was technical problems. The inability of the pilots to handle the situation was a consequence of these problems (contradictory airspeed data, automatic pilot turning off, stall…) not the source of the crash. Whatever the company and the manufacturer say.

  42. Sofia Kibo Noh

    10 Mar, 2014 - 3:31 pm

    Could these Uighur terrorists who don’t communicate with the world be a conenvient wedge between Russia and China? Just when China seems unconvinced with the quaint “You just don’t invade another country on a completely trumped up pretext” ruse.

    Here’s the BBC, bless them…

    …Putin and Obama are such different characters…

    …One is a small, strutting hard man with a passion to re-create an old empire, the other the professorial president – concerned not to repeat the mistakes that happen when America behaves like an empire – ever-hesitant to use the massive brute force his country can muster...” Mark Mardell

    Really worth a click to see some masterful Medialens observation. (Sorry I have to use theat word but ‘mistressful’ just doesn’t do the job.)

  43. Many thanks John for the list of (American) politicians killed in crashes (http://politicalgraveyard.com/death/aircraft.html). As you might expect, neither UN Sec-Gen Dag Hammarskjöld nor UN Asst Sec-Gen Bernt Carlsson appears on the list because they were Swedish rather than US citizens.

    Amazingly, however, there is currently an e-petition calling for a UN Inquiry into the deaths of Hammarskjöld and Carlsson:

    “Support a United Nations Inquiry into the deaths of UN Secretary-General Dag Hammarskjöld and UN Assistant Secretary-General Bernt Carlsson”

    The e-petition is open for signature by UK citizens and residents until 13 May 2014, and can be signed here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56550.

  44. Fair enough, Old Mark.

    I now see that there are reports of the stolen passport holders being of Asian appearance, so not sure now what the official account is on that. There are images of them from where they bought their tickets, but I’m not sure how much value there is in European passports with Germanic names for those of Asian appearance.

    I don’t see any great emphasis or insistence upon the Uighur angle in Brit media.

    My cheapo Lexis Nexus doesn’t show it either.

  45. “Just concentrate on finding the cockpit voice recorder as it contains the only information now about what really happened.”

    Sensible advice – pity the rest of the post didn’t follow it.

  46. Ba'al Zevul ( I'll get back To You)

    10 Mar, 2014 - 3:53 pm

    ‘I research what men do with machines, weapons, and words.’

    Selectively.

  47. Old Mark

    The BBC report you link to where the official says the two men were not of Asian appearance, the same official goes on to say illegal migration may have been the goal. Reading between the lines, I think we’ll find they were not of Asian appearance but not of European appearance either.

    Oh I see I am behind the times – it is confirmed they were of African appearance. Most likely explanation remains illegal immigrants.

  48. Thanks for the correction Patrick. Very busy at the moment I missed that they were all US politicians. This is a list I’ve posted before from Wikipedia, which is good, but includes other high-profile passengers, film-stars, pop-stars and others.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatalities_from_aviation_accidents

    This does contain Carlsson.

  49. If you think this thread is lost, just look at the Professional Pilots Rumour Network where they have gotten nowhere after 72 pages gossip and other irrelevancies.

  50. It could be related to counterfeit parts and their role will increase in such things.

    I cannot understand how no media outlet reported that the planes navigational course took it almost completely over land. Catastrophic mechanical failure may have resulted in extreme measures for course correction, taking them over water.

  51. Sofia Kibo Noh

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:22 pm

    John.

    Was it you who posted a while back comparing the likelihood of politicians and celebs dying in plane crashes compared to ordinary mortals? If it was, could you dig that one up and post it again.

    Thanks.

  52. As to the passports, what good is INTERPOL when the massive surveillance we live under doesn’t serve the purpose it claims?

  53. It would seem commercial aircraft are also vulnerable.

    “Chinese companies were identified as the “primary source” of the counterfeit goods and the Chinese government was criticized for its alleged disinterest in cracking down on counterfeiting there. The report said that Chinese companies take discarded electronic parts from all over the world, remove any identifying marks, wash and refurbish them, and then resell them as brand-new – a practice that poses a “significant risk” to the performance of U.S. military systems.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/counterfeit-chinese-parts-slipping-us-military-aircraft-senate/story?id=16403599

  54. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:35 pm

    “Was it you who posted a while back comparing the likelihood of politicians and celebs dying in plane crashes compared to ordinary mortals? If it was, could you dig that one up and post it again.”
    __________________

    Oh Heavens, not again.

    Could it just possibly be that politicians and celebs might do more air travelling than “ordinary mortals” (strange expression that – are we not all mortal?)?

    Anyway, no answer, please — just stay on the topic of Craig’s thread. Thank you.

  55. “John.

    Was it you who posted a while back comparing the likelihood of politicians and celebs dying in plane crashes compared to ordinary mortals? If it was, could you dig that one up and post it again. ”

    Habba has already pointed to one of the glaring statistical fallacies in that particular effort – but there others.

  56. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:41 pm

    “As to the passports, what good is INTERPOL when the massive surveillance we live under doesn’t serve the purpose it claims?”
    _______________________-

    Firstly, what you call “mass surveillance” isn’t relevant here. Interpol collates info on stolen (or lost) travel and identity documents. And that info is not obtained by states using mass surveillance – loss and theft of such documents are reported to states by the individuals affected.

    Secondly, as to what “good” INTERPOL is : it is hardly Interpol’s fault if airport and other immigration/emigration control authorities don’t check identity documents against its data base, is it?

    Your comment is just gratuitously silly.

  57. Well, it’s not conclusive, but time will tell.

    “The inescapable conclusion from what we know so far is that Flight 370 seems to have utterly and inexplicably vanished. It clearly was not hijacked (unless there is a cover-up regarding the radar data), and we can all be increasingly confident by the hour that this was not a mid-air explosion (unless debris suddenly turns up that they’ve somehow missed all along).

    The inescapable conclusion is that Flight 370 simply vanished in some way that we do not yet understand. This is what is currently giving rise to all sorts of bizarre-sounding theories across the ‘net, including discussions of possible secret military weapons tests, Bermuda Triangle-like ripples in the fabric of spacetime, and even conjecture that non-terrestrial (alien) technology may have teleported the plane away.

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/044244_Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370_vanished.html#ixzz2va0CEhMa

  58. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:46 pm

    ESLO

    ““Just concentrate on finding the cockpit voice recorder as it contains the only information now about what really happened.”

    Sensible advice –”
    __________________

    Far too sensible for most of this mob, ESLO. Following it would (1) prevent people from diverting (cf Tovarish Goss’s very first post on this thread) and (2) jumping up and down excitedly with pet theories, speculation and accusations.
    In effect, the thread would become unbearably dull for Eminences.

  59. Connecting the dots; gratuitously silly.

  60. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:51 pm

    “Could these Uighur terrorists who don’t communicate with the world be a conenvient wedge between Russia and China?”
    ______________________-

    No.

    Unless, that is, you’re a conspiracist, in which case add a teaspoon of Mossad, a dash of MI5, half a jar of CIA, stir well over a low heat and you’re away!

    Mon Dieu!

  61. The chances of there being a bomb on an aircraft are very small, but the chances of there being two bombs is utterly tiny. Thus you should always take your own bomb whenever you fly, just to be on the safe side.

  62. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:52 pm

    Ben

    Anyway, I think you accept my point about INTERPOL and mass surveillance, and that’s good.

  63. If it went done due to hijack or bomb, one thing is clear.

    The WoT can only stop those terrorists it has recruited and enabled.

  64. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    10 Mar, 2014 - 4:54 pm

    Clark

    If we’re on the illegal immigration track, then I think it’d be a case of two bums rather than two bombs.

  65. The following is a comment by a Worldwide pilot with FedEx for 30 years. Sorry for the length, but it is, as I see it, something worth posting.

    “When you swap from Malaysia Control to Ho Chi Minh Control (as a consequence of leaving Malaysian Airspace and entering Vietnamese Airspace) you are now given a new Vietnamese VHF frequency for voice comm on VHF Radio. You are just at the limit of his broadcast range so you need to speak loudly and distinctly, and often you have to repeat your call multiple times after a few minutes if no-one answers. The Ho chi Minh guy, when you do contact him on radio, looks at his scope and sees that old time radar blip of an object having position, bearing, and some speed, and he asks you to confirm your squawk and your altitude.” Once you do that, and it pops up on his radar screen, he tells you “you are in Radar Contact” and likewise voice reports are not required, but he”ll ask you to call the next sector on a different frequency since they don’t have the finest sector transition system in the world, and you set your timer in the cockpit and when it goes off you put down your book and make a call to the new frequency and do the drill all over again. (And he may have asked you to ident as well but he does not need to if the numbers he’s looking at match what you told him and you’re the only guy out there at the moment). So that how the transponder system works.

    How often that info appears on his screen I can’t say, but I suspect with a standard capability it sends out a signal whenever interrogated and probably on some reasonable timescale as it crawls across his radar sector heading to the next guys sector for a handoff.

    What I think I’m hearing from these Malaysian Flight 370 reports is that the Transponder info stopped ASAP. That can happen if you turn it to off or standby—or blow up. We used to turn it off in military planes at times for various reasons I won’t go in to, but in Commercial aviation you never turn it off unless you have landed and the field wants you to go to a standby mode for taxiing, such as Bangalore.

    Anyhow, as I understand it, the Vietnamese had Malay Flight 370 on the old blip of position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed. We need to know if they ever got a decent Transponder reading from Flight 370 since as I understand it, it was early in the entry to Vietnam Airspace when Comm and radar data was lost.

    The Investigators do know from Malaysian ATC if the Transponder system was working and I suspect it was, otherwise it would have caused a stink among Malaysian ATC and I think we would have heard about it by now. As for what the Vietnamese were getting, I still do not know if they ever got transponder info. I suspect they did initially as I believe they confirmed altitude “Flight level 350″, which they would not get from the simple old fashioned radar blip, but they then lost it at the time they lost everything else.

    If it was turned off it would stop giving out precise radar info such as speed, heading altitude. That could be intentionally or inadvertently done in the cockpit, but unlikely, because If the plane was still intact and the transponder simply failed or was turned off, that old info of position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed, would still be available if somebody was looking at it on the radar scope. That it seemingly vanished all together would indicate that the transponder failed and that the plane itself was blown apart enough that it no longer gave a decent radar return. It is also worth mentioning that in the time it takes to punch 4 typewriter keys (2-3 seconds?) I can enter into the Transponder a code that will continue to broadcast that I have an Emergency until power from the transponder unit ceases.

    But if the plane had a catastrophic failure, which seems likely, then it makes sense that the bored Vietnamese Controller at 2 AM swiveling in his chair and smoking a knock off Winston, lost them on Transponder radar, and on the old fashioned blip return.

    That’s where we’d have to know the frequency of the transponder sending out info and the Vietnamase’s capability of receiving that info, and also the frequency of the old time radar’s scan. FWIW, in Navt Alameda in the office I would have on the old AM Radio listening to Talk Radio or Magic 61, and about every 20 seconds or so you’d hear a “Blip” on the radio telling you the radar from whatever boat was in port was irradiating you and ever living thing on base about every 20 seconds. That 20 seconds, or whatever number of seconds it was, was the frequency in Alameda for the old time Boat radar interrogating for position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed”

  66. Sofia, yes it was me who posted that comparison. However I noticed an inaccuracy in the calculation after posting it. However that does not detract from the fact that there is a much more likely chance of dying in a plane crash that has celebrities on board than otherwise.

  67. “However that does not detract from the fact that there is a much more likely chance of dying in a plane crash that has celebrities on board than otherwise.”

    Yes it does – the data provided could never have been used to test the “fact” you claim – it just wasn’t sufficient to support your conclusion. I could claim that chances of dying with a pilot on board were considerably higher using your methodology – but that would also be a vacuous statement.

  68. Oh I see I am behind the times – it is confirmed they were of African appearance. Most likely explanation remains illegal immigrants.

    Quite right Craig; perhaps the security industry will now work on a Boko Haram connection- although why they’d attack a Malaysian airliner ostensibly on behalf of the Uighurs in China defies understanding.

  69. I built a case for finding first the cockpit voice recorder rather than the flight data recorder because it would more likely indicate a catastrophic collapse which Ben’s link supports.

    When the Sukoi 100 crashed into the volcano in Indonesia, the cockpit voice recorder was found, as I recall, rather than the flight data recorder, and the Russian investigators let it go at that, not wanting to disclose that the air-conditioning system had been sabotaged, explaining the rapid descent, and the subsequent crash as a result of the ensuing chaos. The Russians thought pilot error was a better explanation for the crash rather than the plane’s apparent continuing mechanical failures.

    This sabotage was so quick and deadly that it looks like pilot response, if it can be found, is the most reliable evidence of what happened.

  70. Here’s a bit more detail:

    “Two passengers who boarded MH370 with stolen passports are believed to be from the Middle East after a Financial Times report revealed that the tickets were bought by an Iranian in the Thai resort town of Pattaya.”

    “Ali had asked for the cheapest route to Europe for his clients and did not mention the specific booking Kuala Lumpur-Beijing – unlikely behaviour by would-be terrorists.”

    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/paper-reveals-iranian-link-in-ticket-purchase-for-passengers-with-stolen-pa

    Does look like some sort of traffiking operation.

    Anyway, this is cute:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=043_1394388310

    So’s this:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2b2_1394312617

  71. The answer is obvious. Every government and every bank is in debt, so the money must have been borrowed from extra-terrestrials. This aircraft disappearance is just the first of many repossessions. Trowbridge Ford came closest; the two mystery passengers weren’t Uighur terrorists, in fact they weren’t even human, but they did use a communications laser to take over the aircraft using mind-control techniques (partially reverse-engineered by the CIA after the Roswell crash) and have it steered into the blue, lightning-like alien repossession rays.

  72. Clark; The article from Natural news was tongue-in-cheek on the Triangle stuff, but it does seem to have vanished.

  73. I see no one here has mentioned the 5 passengers who checked in…with their baggage of course, but did not board the flight. I’d say that’s significant .

    First heard on China News TV this morning & now repeated in the Mail.

  74. Of course I couldn’t mention Mossad’s role because that’s who I work for. OK, back to the cover-up…

    Flight controllers had been trying to contact Flight 370 for some time. Another pilot made contact at 1:30 on the emergency frequency, but could hear only “mumbling” over the interference:

    http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/font-color-red-missing-mh370-font-pilot-i-established-contact-with-plane-1.503464

    The Vietnamese navy claim to have detected the crash on radar:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/03/07/3981495/malaysia-airlines-loses-contact.html

  75. Right, Katie, though I wish you had stated why – i.e., it showed that the two bombers were being checked to see if they got on the plane, and if they hadn’t, the five would have gone on somewhere else with the necessary equipment to do something similar.

    Real evidence of a conspiracy.

  76. Oh, thanks Clark for chiming in with your covert operator disinformation.

    You forget the bit, though, about the passengers being kidnapped by space aliens.

  77. Trowbridge, I’m sorry, there’s no nice way to say this, but have you considered the possibility that you’re going a bit mad? I mean, you don’t need bombers and a laser-induced lightning strike on the flight deck… Or is it all just codshit for us masses?

    Trowbridge’s website – http://codshit.com/

  78. “You forget the bit, though, about the passengers being kidnapped by space aliens.”

    Abductions are now illegal under intergalactic law, they were getting too many complaints.

  79. Wrong again , Clark, I am not mad, and codshit.com is not my website.

    I have been investigating conspiracies for years, as my articles on it and other sites detail – so much so that spooks in Portugal, Sweden, and here in the states have tried to kill me on several occasions.

    Codshit is the website of Edward Chanter in Brighton, and he choose to post all my articles there until Sam Rosenfeld, a former member of the FRU and the Mossad, threatened to sue it for what I was claiming about him.

    Of course, Rosenfelt never did, and my articles have been appearing on other sites, but Chanter feared that he couldn’t risk it.

  80. Fred, yes abductions are illegal, but the United States of Arcturus doesn’t recognise the jurisdiction of the Galactic Criminal Court, and reserves the right to use military force against it if any Arcturan officials are put on trial there:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Invasion_Act

  81. Yet another sticky wicket….

    GPS ;spoofing’ could lead to a highjacked airliner.

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/07/26/exclusive-gps-flaw-could-let-terrorists-hijack-ships-planes/

  82. Clark; I’m not sure what your point is in connection with the link.

  83. Trowbridge, it doesn’t matter who’s trying to kill you; you still don’t need laser-induced lightning and a conspiracy of two, five or seven bombers. Not even if I do work for Mossad.

    Katie, 7:59 pm; I read somewhere (can’t find the link now) that those five passengers’ luggage was removed from the aircraft.

  84. Ben, 9:16 pm; it’s my little political parody:

    United States of Arcturus = USAmerica,
    Galactic Criminal Court = International Criminal Court at the Hague, Netherlands,
    Hague Invasion Act = American Service-Members’ Protection Act (ASPA, 2002).

    “By any means necessary” (see ASPA) = military force permitted.

  85. This incident is closed for the authorities, but what sort of electrical power would it take to set fire to jet fuel (diesel). Answer; a lot more than an airliner could generate. This had witnesses, however.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800

  86. I am not talking about what you think is proper conspiracy to explain what happened to the Malaysia airliner, but what apparently happened.

  87. http://flight800doc.com/fact-checking/fact-checking-popular-mechanics/

    ” The aviation community knew very well that Jet-A vapors were flammable at specific temperatures well before TWA Flight 800 crashed. And knowing this, Boeing engineers designed their tanks with the assumption that the vapors were always flammable. That’s why there haven’t ever been any in-flight tank explosions resulting from internal causes.

    –The Boeing engineers’ design principle was to prevent any energy from entering the tank to ignite these vapors. To do this, extra protection to fuel gauge wiring in the form of a nylon sheath together with proper surge protection was employed. While only 120 volts was available to short into these wires, Boeing engineers tested their system up to 3,000 volts on new airplanes and then again after the crash of TWA Flight 800, on many older airplanes still in service. No issues were found on any representative aircraft.”

    Diesel is heavy with oil and takes a lot to ignite, even fumes.

  88. On the Iranian.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-10/mysterious-iranian-mr-ali-purchased-tickets-stolen-passport-passengers-paid-cash

    “Still, before some read into this as an attempt to provoke Iran sentiment, the travel agent said she “did not believe Mr Ali was linked to terrorism, particularly as he had not specified booking the Kuala Lumpur-Beijing flight but had instead asked for the cheapest route to Europe.” Ms Benjaporn said she was speaking about the case because she was concerned over the speculation about a terrorist attack and wanted the facts to be known.”

  89. Ben, the TWA800 Wikipedia page is interesting; multiple eye-witness accounts of something resembling a missile, etc.. I’m not going to guess what actually happened; evidence seems contradictory.

    But you can light diesel quite easily with electricity. My central heating kerosene burner has electronic ignition; the power is only a few watts. Liquid fuel certainly isn’t as flammable as they make out in the movies. My dad did aircraft maintenance in Burma during WWII. He’d demonstrate to new team members by throwing a lighted cigarette into a bucket of aviation fuel; everyone would flinch, but the cigarette just fizzled out every time. But I’m sure that, with a bit of practice, I could ignite diesel with a D cell and some wire.

  90. Sofia Kibo Noh

    10 Mar, 2014 - 10:01 pm

    Dad. 4 35pm

    Re my question to John about politicians and celebs dying in plane crashes.

    ”Oh Heavens, not again.”

    I have to apologise for rattling your cage Dad. Dr Bullstrode gave me a hard time over that one too. He’s at his wits’ end trying to manage your condition and finds my childish pranks most unhelpful.

    Ben. 4 45pm
    ”The inescapable conclusion is that Flight 370 simply vanished in some way that we do not yet understand.”

    For what it’s worth, that’s how it strikes me.

    Dad. 4 51pm

    “No.

    Unless, that is, you’re a conspiracist……”

    Are those who point out clear conspiracies (like Nulands “Fuck the EU” phonecall) conspiracists, by which I believe you imply the person is pushing some kind of fantasy “conspiracy theory”?

    John. 5 14pm

    … “I noticed an inaccuracy in the calculation after posting it. However that does not detract from the fact that there is a much more likely chance of dying in a plane crash that has celebrities on board than otherwise.”

    Thanks. I just wanted to review what you posted. I had no idea it would cause Dad and his acolyte such a fit. Do they fear a forbidden narrative emerging?

    I clearly haven’t a clue why the plane disappeared but would like to examine the possibilities. Do you think I might have I contracted conspiratosis?

  91. “Diesel is heavy with oil and takes a lot to ignite, even fumes.”

    Planes don’t run on diesel, apart from anything it freezes at relatively high temperatures.

    Jet fuel is a type of paraffin, or kerosene as some people call it.

  92. There was a naval exercise off-shore at the time Clark. As you can see, the NTSB tested tanks at up to 3000 watts with no event. The shielding could have been compromised on the wiring, but even with witnesses (effectively ignored) we still don’t know for sure what happened.

  93. Dunno Sofia, possibly. Bit short of time. Before re-posting I want to examine the content. No time at the mo.

  94. I can’t even pretend to know what might have happened with this plane so i won’t speculate.

    But i do know it’s certainly taken the Ukraine/Crimea/Russian/NATO action off the front pages…

  95. Jet fuel is a purer form of diesel. Gasoline and diesel are by products of refining to get kerosene. If jets ran on kerosene they would have been broke long ago.

  96. FWIW an ‘expert in flight safety’ M. Christophe Naudin adds to the mystery here-

    http://euronews.com/2014/03/10/thailand-travel-agents-questioned-over-tickets-for-missing-jet/

  97. Ben, that’s 3000 volts, not watts. Volts is “electrical push”, like how hard the electricity is trying to get through. Current (amps) is like current in water; rate of flow or electrons-per-second. Watts is power, or energy converted per second; most electrical energy gets converted into heat. For electricity, watts = volts times amps.

    But it makes no odds. If you heat a small enough piece of wire it’ll get hot enough to ignite liquid fuel. Like an old-fashioned battery torch or flashlight, the filament in the bulb glows white-hot, but it’s powered by just a couple of penlight cells.

    But I’m just pointing out principles; none of this means that Boeing’s wiring caused the disaster. Yes, 630 witness reports were effectively suppressed, so it could have been a cover-up. It was also just four months after the US settled with Iran over the shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988.

  98. “Jet fuel is a purer form of diesel. Gasoline and diesel are by products of refining to get kerosene. If jets ran on kerosene they would have been broke long ago.”

    Jet fuel is a mixture of a large number of different hydrocarbons. The range of their sizes (molecular weights or carbon numbers) is restricted by the requirements for the product, for example, the freezing point or smoke point. Kerosene-type jet fuel (including Jet A and Jet A-1) has a carbon number distribution between about 8 and 16 (carbon atoms per molecule); wide-cut or naphtha-type jet fuel (including Jet B), between about 5 and 15.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

  99. Kerosene is $11 per gal here. Gas 4 bucks. Diesel runs about twenty cents higher tan gas. No way the airlines would survive paying for the formula.

  100. No idea where you’re buying your kerosene from but you need to find another supplier. The airlines are currently paying about $3 per US gallon for jet fuel which according to my calculations is about the same as I’m paying for my heating oil (54p/litre).

    It wasn’t the liquid fuel in TWA800 that was ignighted but the vapour. As with petrol this is far more volatile than the fuel itself.

  101. Ba'al Zevul (Wot,, No Wreckage?)

    11 Mar, 2014 - 8:18 am

    “Two passengers who boarded MH370 with stolen passports are believed to be from the Middle East after a Financial Times report revealed that the tickets were bought by an Iranian in the Thai resort town of Pattaya.”

    “Ali had asked for the cheapest route to Europe for his clients and did not mention the specific booking Kuala Lumpur-Beijing – unlikely behaviour by would-be terrorists.”

    Interestingly, all papers are today running with another anti-Iran story:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/iran-ordered-lockerbie-bombing-claims-exintelligence-officer-9182907.html

    The theory is far from new – Private Eye has been patiently pointing out the deficiencies in the Megrahi case (which are glaring) for years – but it is interesting that the revelation comes now, and not long after Netanyahu returns from his preaching tour of the US….

    Re. Trowbridge, to give him more attention than he deserves, I will never forget his masterly assessment of the Soham murders as being committed by a US serviceman in transit from Afghanistan and out of his box on paludrine. The mere admission of the crime by Huntley should not be allowed to stand in the way of recognising the, er, deep truth of the matter.

  102. Give it another week before deciding whether terrorists or a “new Bermuda triangle” might be responsible.

  103. Ba'al Zevul (MC Uriah Heep)

    11 Mar, 2014 - 11:49 am

    Also in today’s soma media -

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10688862/RAF-spy-plane-to-monitor-Ukraine-crisis.html

    Type unspecified here, but this would seem to be a Sentinel surveillance plane. As far as I know we don’t do Blackbirds. (The US used to, and now I will have to kill you – the SR-72 will probably be equally clandestine). Even so, another thing we don’t do is advertise the whereabouts of our surveillance capability to the yellow press(1), so this publicity has to be a pathetic attempt at sabre-rattling.

    (1) They know where it’s kept, anyway – http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafwaddington/

  104. The official cover up is already well underway way with Malayan security saying that the two Iranians with stolen passports apparently have no connections with terrorist groups!

    What about terrorist states, especially the USA, which regularly engage in terrorism, given all its sophisticated lasers and inosopheric heaters?

    The pathetic performance by Kuala Lumpur is underlined by still suggesting that it would have done by a mad bomber for the insurance he took. Why couldn’t the Iranians have been paid by some state to do the dirty work?

    Then the five passengers who decided at the last minute not to go, and take away their baggage have apparently disappeared off the radar too.

    The crash is certainly an act of sabotage by a rogue state, apparently Washington, given how it is seeing to the cover up of the one in SFO last summer, and now this one.

  105. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 1:59 pm

    Jives opines

    “I can’t even pretend to know what might have happened with this plane so i won’t speculate.

    But i do know it’s certainly taken the Ukraine/Crimea/Russian/NATO action off the front pages…”
    __________________

    Notice those significant little dots : …..

    Do I smell Jives sniffing out a mini-conspiracy? :)

  106. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    11 Mar, 2014 - 2:03 pm

    Ba”ar Zevul

    “Re. Trowbridge, to give him more attention than he deserves, I will never forget his masterly assessment of the Soham murders as being committed by a US serviceman in transit from Afghanistan and out of his box on paludrine. The mere admission of the crime by Huntley should not be allowed to stand in the way of recognising the, er, deep truth of the matter.”
    ___________________

    I really liked that one, Ba’ar Zevul!

    You’re “killing him softly” :)

  107. That’s one of the most hilarious facets of conspiracy theories. When a terrorist attack occurs it’s inevitably a “false flag” carried out by the powers that be for some nefarious reason, however any accident is really a terror attack which those same nasty people are attempting to cover up.

  108. Just more rot by you, Wot.

    I have never written anything about those murders, and certainly did not write the article about it on codshit.com.

    I think it was written by Chanter, but don’t really know or care. He has posted articles by other writers, many of which I did not and do not agree with, but that did not stop me from posting there or here, for that matter.

    Just more trolling by the trolls here to discredit me, a messenger.

    Do notice that my references on google have now gone up to over 400,000, thanks to my efforts here and elsewhere.

    Regarding the disappearance of the flight, the Malay military has added to the confusion by stating that the plane changed course, and flew west to the Straits, only to then go off its radars.

    Washington is pulling out all the stops to stop any worthwhile investigation.

  109. Now I have looked up the article you are apparently referring to, and it was written by Joe Vialls, the Mossad agent, it seems, who has gone missing, apparently died.

    You are just similar scum.

  110. Jet fuel is kerosene, not diesel. Just the particulate by-products of combustion would eliminate the use of diesel in commercial airlines where engine maintenance downtime is very costly.

    And it doesn’t matter what temperatures fuel vapors might be subjected to in an oxygen free tank – no bang. I don’t know what gas fills the void of a rapidly emptying aircraft fuel tank, but i imagine it is not oxygen rich air, rather, inert exhaust gases piped in from the engines.

    This tragic mystery will soon be solved. The first piece of debris will drastically narrow the search area where further remains will certainly be found soon after and, hopefully, also the flight recorder.

    However, I remain suspicious of the reported deviation of the plane from its intended course.

    PS – when will aircraft manufacturers install (cheap) small tanks of fluorescent dye that break open on impact, to make aerial spotting of sea crashes easier to sight?

  111. LATEST on the ‘missing’ five.

    ‘SEPANG, March 11 — Malaysian police refuted reports today that there were five individuals who had checked into MH370 but did not board the plane, appearing to suggest inconsistencies in information disseminated by investigators to the media.

    Inspector-General of Police (IGP) Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar told reporters that every single passenger who booked a spot on the Boeing B777-200 aircraft had boarded the flight.’

    Curiouser & curiouser !

  112. ” it doesn’t matter what temperatures fuel vapors might be subjected to in an oxygen free tank – no bang. I don’t know what gas fills the void of a rapidly emptying aircraft fuel tank, but i imagine it is not oxygen rich air, rather, inert exhaust gases piped in from the engines. ”

    It is air believe it or not. Filling a fuel tank with blisteringly hot exhaust gases is generally considered to be a worse idea.

  113. Stronly disagree with your prediction, Jemand, that the mystery will soon be solved, once the first piece of debris is found,

    Doubt any debris is found, and if one or even a few are, the massive amount of people and machinery never will be found, as the plane suffered a massive, deliberate , mechanical failure which resulted in an inferno which consumed almost everything before it hit the ground.

    Still say that it is a repeat of what happened to Asiana Flight 214 but at an attitude and speed way beyond any pilot to deal with.

  114. Interesting that the Iranian ‘refugees’ have the same legs!

    http://www.fz.com/content/mh370-leggy-iranians-give-more-fodder-conspiracy

    Why would they bother to photoshop or mix 2 photos?

  115. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 10:26 am

    THF – “Just more rot by you, Wot.

    I have never written anything about those murders, and certainly did not write the article about it on codshit.com.

    I think it was written by Chanter, but don’t really know or care. He has posted articles by other writers, many of which I did not and do not agree with, but that did not stop me from posting there or here, for that matter.”

    Correct, sincere apologies. The piece was by Joe Vialls, and I have no idea why I thought it was by you. Could have sworn it had your byline. Now I’ll have to look for something else, by you, with similar comedic potential. Damn.

  116. You have already tried to make me look like a fool on this thread – claiming that the Asiana Flight 214 crash was all pilot error – you know the guys the NTSB officially referred to as “We Tu Low,”, “We Fuk Up’” etc., adnauseam. It too apologized for the most outrageous behavior, firing some scapegoat intern when some of the bosses should have gone to regain some credibility.

    Still think that the SFO crash is most relevant, along with those on 9?11 which I have seen no reference to.

    Think that the Malaysia plane was made into a human meteor- thanks to a thunder bot brought down to the cabin from a hand-helt laser fired there, starting fires which soon made the plane a fiery hulk which was completely destroyed.

    These planes are just ticking bombs if they are somehow penetrated by a massive energy charge, as their disappearance in the 9/11 tragedies demonstrated.

    Now go have your big laugh, and tell everyone about it.

  117. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 11:30 am

    I always try to make amends for my errors, lol

    And….Aha. I like this one.

    http://www.rockythedog.net/spooky/disasters4.html

    The US intentionally caused the Aceh tsunami, not by a nuke as Joe Vialls (the noted dead conspiracy theorist probably in the pay of Mossad, curse him!) thought, but by using super air guns on the sea floor. And Wolfowitz is evil…ok, we knew. Now read on.

    Trowbridge, the geology wouldn’t get you an E in first year. Tell me it isn’t by you. Please.

  118. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 11:36 am

    “Think that the Malaysia plane was made into a human meteor- thanks to a thunder bot brought down to the cabin from a hand-helt laser fired there, starting fires which soon made the plane a fiery hulk which was completely destroyed.”

    That is extremely implausible on all sorts of levels. Lacking any evidence to for it, and present several technical objections, can we confine ourselves to the known? Which is that an a/c is lost, no wreckage has been found and someone on an oilrig may have seen something burning in the air?

  119. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 11:57 am

    PS – the link I gave @1130 is to a woo site. Which means that the meaningful decoration may obscure the text in your browser. Edit> Select All will reveal T’s deathless prose clearly.

  120. Since the link on my laptop about the 2004 massive tsumanis in the Indian Ocean is unreadable, I suggest the posters look for the article about what the USS Jimmy Carter accomplished on cryptome, veterans today, and yes, codshit.com.

    I have provide evidence about the total destruction of the planes involved in the 9/11 attacks, and the cause of the two fires in the passenger cabin before the SFO crash, so its alleged lack is only in minds which are totally closed.

    Are you Joe Vialls replacement, trying to make up for the errors he made which got me involved in correcting?

  121. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 12:10 pm

    “Are you Joe Vialls replacement, trying to make up for the errors he made…?”

    God forbid. That is almost too shameful an accusation to bear (takes out onion).

    It is what you and the late Joe have in common that – slightly – interests me. Your messianic enthusiasm for propagating half baked ‘explanations’ of events, each based on a fixed preconception, on any blog that doesn’t ban you. Your pretence that expertise in one academic field qualifies you any better than the intelligent man in the street to pontificate about others. And, yes, your motives for shouting the unsubstantiated odds.

    No, I don’t work for Mossad/NSA/FSB/The Northern Lighthouse Board, incidentally. I have no personal or political reason for discounting most of your voluminous out-of-field ravings except that they are 90% bollocks, and you probably know this at some level yourself. Admit it.

  122. Your link about my tsumanis article doesn’t work, as it has been impaired at the site, though you have apparently added your own title to it. Will get rocky the dog to fix it.

    Suspect that you work for GCHQ, given your blanket attack on all my work.

    I still support it all, except for my original claim that the Iranians killed John P. Wheeler, III, thanks to a series of articles John Shiffman had written for The Philadelphia Inquirer.

    Actually, the articles were intended to make it look that way, so if it proved necessary for NSA’s Special Collection Service to silence him, and it did when he objected to all those extreme measures that NSA adopted to stop Iran’s nuclear program

    Will change anything else that is wrong, even from you if it is more that just personal attacks,

  123. “No, I don’t work for Mossad/NSA/FSB/The Northern Lighthouse Board”

    I should point out that when I mentioned the Northern Lighthouse Board on another thread I did not mean to imply that there was anything sinister about the board itself. Just that the members comprise, among others, the elite of the Scottish legal establishment. I’m confident the board itself is above board and merely gives board members the chance of an informal chat after meeting.

  124. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 1:19 pm

    Sorry to pinch your reference there, Fred. Maybe I should have said the Masons…

  125. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 1:22 pm

    THF…Gave my own title to the site? WTF are you talking about? As I pointed out, all you have to do is ‘select all’, and the idiotic graphics disappear behind the now-legible text.

    How many times does it take to convince a conspiracy theorist of anything?….don’t answer that.

  126. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 1:29 pm

    ‘Suspect that you work for GCHQ, given your blanket attack on all my work.’

    Wish they paid me, lol. I am not attacking all your work. Some of it – in your field – may even make sense. What I have cited does not. Still, think what you wish, and I am sure you will not guess the truth about my origin in a distant galaxy (where I still am) and amazing telepathic link to the security organisations of every country on earth.

  127. Now CAPTCHA censor has erroneously blocked my post six times, so I shall settle for this:

    1. some is synonymous for 90%?

    2. You are The Local’s Jamtjim, the UK ex-pat who got paid by the covert Brits for debunking my claims by similar personal attacks?

  128. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 2:34 pm

    ’1. some is synonymous for 90%?’

    Opinions differ. As an historian you will be familiar with the concept of research. Google is your friend.

    ’2 You are The Local’s Jamtjim, the UK ex-pat who got paid by the covert Brits for debunking my claims by similar personal attacks?’

    Who? And who do I contact to get paid for it? I’m doing this out of the goodness of my heart, Trowbridge. As a public service, sure. But wholly unremunerated.

  129. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 2:38 pm

    And again:

    “Think that the Malaysia plane was made into a human meteor- thanks to a thunder bot brought down to the cabin from a hand-helt laser fired there, starting fires which soon made the plane a fiery hulk which was completely destroyed.”

    Please, Trowbridge. That’s by an 11-year-old, isn’t it? You’re having a laugh? I am.

  130. Ba'al Zevul(aka Gordon Bennett)

    12 Mar, 2014 - 2:59 pm

    Reproduced here is a credible account by an observer of his sighting of a burning plane. I certainly wouldn’t discount this, although the Viets found nothing in the area described. But I am prepared to guarantee that a handheld laser had nothing to do with it. You may quote me.

    http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/03/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-malaysia-air-flight-370-go-down/359093/

  131. You link to what oil-rig operator Mike McKay saw – a burning plane high in the sky where the Malaysia flight was last reported by its transponders reported it – and yet you dismiss what a souped-up, military style hand-held laser, like an Arctic IInferno one, could do.

    The flight is now as missing as your brain.

  132. Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!

    12 Mar, 2014 - 8:26 pm

    Ba’ar Zevul-a-Bub

    Well, you seem to have seen through Trowbridge at last – it’s taken you some time to go public with that, but hey, it’s getting there that counts.

    You are progressing, and I hope that your newly found critical faculties will soon turn to some of the other charlatans on this blog.

  133. Ba'al Zevul (Quantum Sense)

    13 Mar, 2014 - 8:27 am

    Buggerlugs -
    I saw through you a long time ago. My opinion hasn’t changed.

    Trowbridge opines from his ivory tower – “You link to what oil-rig operator Mike McKay saw – a burning plane high in the sky where the Malaysia flight was last reported by its transponders reported it – and yet you dismiss what a souped-up, military style hand-held laser, like an Arctic IInferno one, could do.

    The flight is now as missing as your brain.”

    Although conscious that this could well be from a sockpuppet with a talent for parody, I’ll respond. McKay saw something, was moved to report it, and described what he saw in some detail. I’m encouraged to learn this morning that a satellite photo showed interesting debris floating E of McKay’s position – this has only just emerged due to data processing time. If I have a favourite location for what happened, this is rapidly becoming it. On the other hand, you have no evidence of any kind for your theory, which doesn’t stop you stating it.

    I dismiss what a sucker-bait handheld laser like an Arctic Inferno can do because I have a fairly detailed practical knowledge of what lasers in general can do. It can’t create a “thunderbolt” – or “thunder bot”(sic) -; being handheld, it’s not very powerful at all. See:

    http://www.laserpointersafety.com/class4lasers/class4lasers/review-wicked-arctic-laser.html

    1W might burn a small hole in the plastic interior of the cabin. Just. And not for long – the power consumption is considerable, and you need to be able to carry the battery. A match would do the job far better. I have no idea why people buy these, but they apparently are currently considered to be kool. You need safety glasses if you have one. You would need to put them on before creating your thunderbolt (not), because even a chance reflection could blind you. And that’s the major hazard from one of those.

    OK, Professor? Probably not….

  134. Just the expected drivel from you.

    No debris as yet been found from the crash – only strand bits in the Straits which don’t fit the specification of the 777.

    I talk about military-hand-held lasers which can be up to ten times more powerful than the one 1 watt pointer you link.

    And I never said that the laser itself could cause any thunder bolt – only create a hole in the cabin which allows the bean to go into the higher atmosphere, and bring the kinetic energy there blasting back, resulting the the two fires before the Asiana Flight 214 crashed, and the fiery plane McKay saw.

    Don’t hurry back until you get up to speed about what apparently happened, and I am claiming..

  135. Ba'al Zevul (Quantum Sense)

    13 Mar, 2014 - 11:20 am

    THF^….pmsl. Oh, christ. Thank you for brightening up my day. I haven’t laughed so much since Father died. LOL.

    Ten times? You’d need 1Kw or more (1000x1W) to get even a small hole in a 777′s’s alloy skin. No. it’s not carbon fibre, btw. That’s a BIG battery, Trowser. Think auto battery – and that’s assuming lasers are 100% efficient. Which they most certainly aren’t.

    But I see where you’re going. You’ve spotted the problem identified a while ago with fatigue cracking of the 777′s skin, and you’re trying to parlay it into a woo conspiracy.

    Good luck with that.

  136. Now US aviation experts and crash investigators, according the the WSJ, flew another five hours after the last radar contact, allowing it to go as far as Beijing, Karachi, or Perth- you take your pick.

    Of course, if the plane disintegrated shortly after the last contact, there could be no possibility for the true of what the “experts” are claiming about data from the still functioning engines.

    One has good reason to suspect why the USA is concocting such lies.

  137. Still no attempt by your to explain the two fires in the passenger cabin of Asiana Flight 214 which were underway before the crash, and continued on independently of it.

  138. Ba'al Zevul (Who You Lookin At?)

    13 Mar, 2014 - 11:39 am

    If in doubt, change the subject, eh, Trow?

    I reiterate. No-one is going to burn a hole through a 777 from the inside (as you have repeatedly claimed here) using a handheld laser, or even a reasonably portable one. FACT.

    One theory as to the disappearance of the flight may be based on catastrophic failure of the pressurised cabin. This may plausibly have been due to fatigue cracking. There is as yet no tangible evidence to support this, or any other theory. FACT, unless I’ve missed some breaking news.

    You are a fantasist. And an ill-informed one. And I hope your academic work is of much higher quality.

  139. Trowbridge H. Ford, 10:40

    “…which allows the bean to go into the higher atmosphere

    What? Flight 370 flew into a giant beanstalk?

    http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/scarylaser.gif

  140. Haven’t changed the subject. Simply asked you to explain the cause of the fires in the cabin of Asiana Flight 214 – what has apparently been repeated in the Malaysia flight, and you refuse to, changing the subject about matters you know nothing about like the size and capability of developed state’s secret hand-held lasers.

    As for the quality of my academic work, you should consult the referees of my work in some of the most prestigious journals in history and politics.

  141. Ba'al Zevul (hmmm)

    13 Mar, 2014 - 12:59 pm

    ‘…some of the most prestigious journals in history and politics.’

    You said. None of them noted for papers on engineering, electronics or aviation, I see.

    ‘I have had about 30 articles published in referred journals like History, Bulletin of the Institute of Historical Research, Government & Opposition, Political Studies, Irish Historical Studies, Studia Hibernica,,Eire-Ireland, Durham University Journal, Comparative Politics, Studies, etc. about the plots surrounding the careers of Henry Brougham, A, V Dicey, and others. plus biographies of the two men.’

    ‘ Simply asked you to explain the cause of the fires in the cabin of Asiana Flight 214 – what has apparently been repeated in the Malaysia flight….’

    But you have no evidence for that assertion. Nor that there was any similarity other than the aircraft type, between the two incidents, far less that a laser was the causal agent or that any breach of the aircraft skin was implicated in this low-altitude crash.

    ‘matters you know nothing about like the size and capability of developed state’s secret hand-held lasers.’

    I have a working knowledge of basic physics(1), so secret knowledge like wot you have secretly obtained about secret state secret weapons isn’t really necessary. And in any case you were unwise enough to cite a commercial laser. Souped-up. To (1 to 9)/100 of the power required. To do a job which a long nail and a hammer in the right place would have done as effectively.

    Bye.

    (1) modesty forbids more elaboration as to my multiple areas of expertise. They’re secret, too.

  142. Kempe, the exhaust gases can be cooled and filtered prior to entry into fuel tanks. Indeed, the fuel and surface area of the tanks in cold ambient temps would suffice for a cooling method. But if you are saying, from an informed position, that air fills the void in fuel tanks, i’ll take your word for it.

  143. Ba'al Zevul (I'm a Devil, Aren't I?)

    13 Mar, 2014 - 1:14 pm

    I shouldn’t really be telling you this, Clark, but I’ve got one of those notices. Haven’t had a cat in the garden since I put it up….

  144. I have considerable expertise in conspiracies – what is responsible for these crashes.

    I ask you for the causes of the fires in the planes – what anyone can see in the SFO crash when the 777 is on the ground – and you respond that I have no EVIDENCE for asking the question. Some kind of logic?

    And there is similarity between the crashes because the both were caused by electrical failures because of some kind of external overload.

    And the agent which caused the fires is far beyond your elementary knowledge of physics.

    And there is nothing modest about you, assuming all kinds of guises so that you can continue to make absurd denials, personal attacks and pathetic claims.

  145. Trowbridge H Ford, in kindness and with respect, your argument on this matter not logical. I apologise for taking the piss earlier, but really, making allegations in the absence of evidence is a silly mistake.

    I have a personal recommendation for you; try computer programming as a hobby for a year or two. The computer will follow your instructions literally perfectly, and you will find, just as I did, that your programs will not work. Finding ones own logical errors, assumptions and omissions becomes necessary to make the program function as expected – this is known as ‘debugging’ – and it is a fascinating way to discover ones own logical failings.

  146. Trowbridge H Ford, see my avatar? It’s an excerpt from the Mandelbrot Set, and I wrote the fairly short, simple program that plotted it. I don’t remember how many times I needed to revise the program before it worked properly; over a hundred, I’m sure.

  147. Who benefits when a plane loaded with Chinese, and owned by Malaysia mysteriously disappears?

    Sounds like Washington to me, taking the wind out of the sails of the perennially pesky Kuala Lumpur, and having all the furious survivors yelling and throwing things at their governors in Beijing. the source of the USA’s pivot to the Far East, because of its failure to find their loved ones.

    Looks like just a massive ‘false flag’ murder to me which is complemented for Washington’s benefit by all the contradictory propaganda.

  148. How can you combat Islamic terrorism when you are cozy with its godfathers?

    Uighur’s have been fooled by the Wahhabis. Muslims in that part of the world were moderate, open to the outside world. Not intolerant and hating others. I am sorry that they have destroyed themselves by adopting Wahhabi guise. Same goes for Chechans and Daggestanis.

    “The report warns about the Wahabi/Salafi organisations and claims that “no country in the Muslim world is safe from their operations … as they always aim to terrorise their opponents and arouse the admiration of their supporters.”
    http://dawn.com/news/1029713/european-parliament-identifies-wahabi-and-salafi-roots-of-global-terrorism
    European Parliament Identifies Wahabi and Salafi Roots of Global Terrorism

    Report:
    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxoYWlkZXJub3Rlc3xneDo3NDEwMDI3NjViZTNjODZm

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/mass-murder-in-the-middle-east-is-funded-by-our-friends-the-saudis-8990736.html
    Mass murder in the Middle East is funded by our friends the Saudis
    World View: Everyone knows where al-Qa’ida gets its money, but while the violence is sectarian, the West does nothing
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/22/wikileaks-saudi-arabia-uae-funded-jihad-pakistan-children/
    Saudi Arabia, UAE funded jihadi networks in Pakistan: Wikileaks cable
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding

    WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists

    There is also an EU report about this:
    http://www.france24.com/en/20120929-how-saudi-arabia-petrodollars-finance-salafist-winter-islamism-wahhabism-egypt
    How Saudi petrodollars fuel rise of Salafism

    ttp://www.vancouversun.com/news/Saudi+funding+fuels+jihadist+terror/8448378/story.html
    Saudi funding fuels jihadist terror

    By the besides what we see in Syria, Libya’s uprising was led by Al Queda militants as well. There is a 2007 West Point report (see below) about suicide bombers in iraq, which stated after Saudis, Libyans were the largest number and based on population Libyans exceeded Saudis. Guess where they came from, the area where the uprising started-yes the Benghazi area!
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37844.htm
    The Nature of War has Changed, Which is Bleak News for Syria’s Minorities

  149. Forgot to add this:
    http://tarpley.net/2011/03/24/the-cia%E2%80%99s-libya-rebels-the-same-terrorists-who-killed-us-nato-troops-in-iraq/

    The CIA’s Libya Rebels: The Same Terrorists who Killed US, NATO Troops in Iraq

    2007 West Point Study Shows Benghazi-Darnah-Tobruk Area was a World Leader in Al Qaeda Suicide Bomber Recruitment

    The report

    http://tarpley.net/docs/CTCForeignFighter.19.Dec07.pdf

  150. Isn’t Winton Smith the censor in 1984 of what the public should know until he turns subversive, and experiences extreme torture at the hands of O’Brien?

    Better just stick to the script, Winstion!

  151. When reading comments on any forum or blog on this airline disappearance keep in mind the auto-bot trolls used by P.R. firms to keep us from talking about it.

    The Net is Spying on You, Defining You
    http://flyingcuttlefish.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/spying-onu/

  152. Don’t Boeing 777s have 110-220 volt outlets available in business class, and in toilets, so if someone wanted to sabotage one, all he would have to do is smuggle a powerful, hand-held laser on board, plug it when he went to the toilet, and then fire it when the beam would cut through the fuselage?

    There would be no need for any batteries.

    The result would be a thunder bolt back which would destroy the plane in an inferno while killing all the passengers.

  153. It is impossible to even begin to believe the current crap being handed out – the plane was hjacked by unknown persons, most likely the pilots, flown for seven hours in the least expected direction until it ran out of fuel, and was brought down by a set of batteries, not involved in running the plane but in the hold – wild conjectures which Malaysian authorities have believed sufficiently to call off investigating the South China Sea where the plane was last seen on fire by oil rig operator Mike McKay.

    I can assure you on one thing – nothing of the plane will ever be found – given this incredible cover up.

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