Remember, Freedom Is Worth Dying For 150


In the UK, we are understandably preoccupied with the fact that so many of our elected representatives are personally corrupt in terms of filling their own pockets, and appear not to be particularly distinguished or inspiring people. I actually do not believe the oft-repeated mantra that they all went into politics with good motives.

This country has been through a terrible decade. We have launched illegal wars on others, to further the economic interests of a wealthy class, and unleashed death, mutilation, poverty and grief upon millions in foreign lands. In so doing we made ourselves hated and then disliked the fear of retribution. We have substantially circumscribed our own liberties, hard won by our ancestors, and not cared because we were seduced by a dream of limitless wealth and ease. That bubble inevitably burst and proved to be based on an economic lie. Ordinary people will be paying for bailing out the extremely wealthy, for generations.

So extreme frustration is justified. But today, on the twentieth anniversary of the massacre of Tiananmen Square, we should remember that freedom is so important it is worth dying for.

That has never been a remote concept to me. I have several friends who have died struggling for democracy in Uzbekistan in the last seven years. I also still believe that the Second World War and the fight against fascism was a noble and necessary defence. Like many of my generation, there are close relatives I never got the chance to know because they gave their lives for democracy then. My mother’s only brother, for one. My grandparents never really recovered.

Today in China numerous websites, twitter, Flickr, blogger, livejournal and much else is closed down to try to prevent Chinese people from seeing any remembrance of Tiananmen. This blog was blocked there already, as it is is Uzbekistan and several other countries.

About half as many people as died at Tiananmen, died at Andijan in Uzebkistan, also massacred as they protested for democracy, just over five years ago.

When I was in Uzbekistan, the official line I was given by Jack Straw’s FCO was that Uzbekistan was following the “South East Asian Model” whereby economic liberalisation was bringing about social shifts and the development of a strong middle class, which would eventually lead to democracy. The existence of the model was not a nonsensical argument, though in Uzbekistan there was not any actual economic liberalisation, which invalidated the argument against criticising the regime.

In China there has been economic liberalisation. But precious little sign that this has led to real democratic development or even toleration of dissidence.

In those diaries, Zhao called the massacre of peaceful demonstrators at Tiananmen Square “a tragedy to shock the world”, and clearly stated it could have been averted, had any of the party leadership sided with his view that the demonstrators should be permitted to protest or otherwise be peacefully dispersed. The violent crackdown remains to this day one of the great signs that liberalization of China by trade and engagement has been a moral failure.

http://www.casavaria.com/cafesentido/2009/06/03/2891/china-still-seeks-to-hide-what-happened-at-tiananmen-square-20-years-ago-video/

The greatest sign of lack of progress over the last twenty years, is the Chinese government’s attempts even today to deny what happened at Tinananmen Square, and its Herculean efforts to prevent its population from knowing about it.

Two decades ago the air was heady, communism was tumbling everywhere, apartheid was vanishing, freedom seemed possible. We are left with a sense of ashes in the mouth. In China, the repression in Tibet and of the Muslim Uighurs – the latter a far less fashionable cause in the West – continues undiminished. But even toleration of dissent is not increasing, and there seems no end to the totalitarian desire to control what the people may know.

China may be moving towards capitalism pretty quickly. It is not even looking in the direction of political freedom.


150 thoughts on “Remember, Freedom Is Worth Dying For

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  • MJ

    “How is it possible for a huge team of people to demolish the twin towers and yet NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has spilled the beans”

    Not quite sure why you’re clinging on to this point. Thousands of people are flown out to work at Area 51 every day but none of them ‘spills the beans’ on what they’re doing. Does this mean Area 51 doesn’t exist and secret projects are not developed there?

    “You must accept that you people are in a tiny minority”

    Around 40% of the US public no longer believes the official account of 9/11 and the number is growing. A large minority therefore, not a tiny one.

    As I said, I used to share your views on this matter – for almost a year in fact. Then I actually looked carefully at all the available evidence. My opinion changed as a result. My world-view changed accordingly, because it had to.

  • KevinB

    MJ

    “I don’t think eddie is either degenerate or dishonest. He simply comes up with the stuff that the average bloke down the pub would say.”

    The ‘average person down the pub’ will not continue to talk drivel if he is presented with evidence and argument that contradicts his position. The ‘average person down the pub’ has ears and a brain as well as a big stupid gob.

    eddie is a despicable troll.

    Excellent Powerpoint on 9/11

    http://www.powerpointparadise.com/ppoint.html

    Ditto the media

    http://www.powerpointparadise.com/whodid911.pps

  • eddie

    There is no evidence and you have not provided any and you cannot answer my question. As I said before, paranoia and fantasy. If it makes you feel superior to the rest of us mere mortals you carry on believing in it. Plenty of people still believe in father christmas. I hope you are happy being in the same company as people like David Shayler.

    Just a few seconds googling and this link appears which debunks your twaddle about thermite, and I would rather trust the University of Cambridge than your websites for weirdos.

    http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm

  • Jaded

    ‘The ‘average person down the pub’ will not continue to talk drivel if he is presented with evidence and argument that contradicts his position. The ‘average person down the pub’ has ears and a brain as well as a big stupid gob.

    eddie is a despicable troll.’

    Yes, it’s unnatural to say the least the way he carries on. He talsk crao like an expert. I reiterate, he is only here to stop undecided folk from thinking it through for themselves, the brainwashed don’t need much reassurance, and coming up with the only logical conclusion possible. Namely, that the official narrative is horseshit. He has to a motive to be here and do that. I am convinced there is an internet spook muppet squad that patrol blogs and forums with a certain level of traffic. Seriously, please mull it over people. I believe he was on here as Jessy a few weeks back. I am a very logical individual and certainly not crazy!

  • eddie

    JAded – oh no, not another fantasist. So anyone who disagrees with you is a spoook or controlled by “dark forces” – I hope your medication is up to date. I am not Jessy and I am not Eddie (capital E)

  • eddie

    Excellent powerpoint it may be but written by another fantasist with no qualifications to pontificate on zilch. Still waiting for a response to my questions.

  • KevinB

    hey eddie,

    Here is a highly relevant question for you and if you don’t answer it then it will be clear for everyone to see that you have lost the argument.

    How many cheeks has your arse?

    Count them….carefully now….don’t get it wrong….

    …..then let us all know. We will interpret your data by reference to our own experience.

    If you fail in this simple challenge then all your credibility will be shot.

    You can get a friend to help you if needs be.

    Excellent Powerpoint on 9/11

    http://www.powerpointparadise.com/ppoint.html

    Ditto the media

    http://www.powerpointparadise.com/whodid911.pps

  • Chris

    eddie,

    since when was peer reviewed science not evidence?

    The Manhattan Project – by the statements of those overseeing it – was a huge and hidden conspiracy without a single leak on a scale dwarfing anything necessary for 9/11.

    Stop ignoring evidence or answers that fail to fit your world view and open those tired, cynical eyes.

  • KevinB

    Chris,

    You don’t get it yet. He ain’t trying to look. He’s doing a job. Working for liars.

  • MJ

    eddie, you’ve had very thorough answers to all your questions.

    I’m still waiting for your views on how you think all that thermite got into the dust.

  • eddie

    Doh – the Manhattan project was penetrated by Soviet spies almost from the outset. Stalin knew about the atomic project in 1941. So I ask again, how can such a plot have been kept a secret?

    As for thermite, firstly you haven’t linked to any reputable body that confirms its presence and secondly you have not presented a credible link between it and the sequence of events that you believe in. A huge team of demolition engineers, not a single one of which has leaked news of the plot, plus the “disappearance” of the planes with all their passengers. It isn’t credible. And I have not “had very through answers to all my questions.” None in fact.

    But if you like being in the same company as nutters like David Icke and David Shayler that’s your business.

    Next question.

  • MJ

    “you haven’t linked to any reputable body that confirms its presence”

    The link is http://tinyurl.com/de6448. The paper comes from the University of Copenhagen Chemistry Department.

    “you have not presented a credible link between it and the sequence of events that you believe in”

    The link is the presence of thermite in the dust and the fact that the buildings collapsed in a manner remarkably similar to buildings demolished using thermite. They also left vast pools of molten steel beneath the rubble, which remained molten for weeks. Again, this is fully consistent with thermite. It is totally inexplicable in terms of the official account. Your “reputable” and “serious” authorities deal with this key piece of evidence by simply ignoring it. Not a very serious or reputable thing to do when you think about it.

  • eddie

    The University of Copenhagen Chemistry Department. What is that like the University of Basildon silly walks department? Really. I said reputable.

    “The link is the presence of thermite” – that is not a link at all. Planes disappear and a team of demolition experts plant charges and keep a secret for 8 years because thermite was found in the rubble. I don’t think so. It’s like saying that because a dead dog has bite marks on its neck it must have been killed by a Tasmanian Devil. No. Perhaps you don’t understand what I mean by link.

    So any more thoughts on the Manhattan Project. I demolish each point and there is no comeback.

  • Chris

    eddie,

    “The University of Copenhagen Chemistry Department. What is that like the University of Basildon silly walks department?” Now you’re just being juvenile.

    MJ is right, you haven’t actually dealt with a single point. A closed mind is an ignorant one. You really do yourself no credit. And, although you are entitled to your opinion, one day you are going to have to accept that others are also entitled to theirs. It’s called being a grown up.

    KevinB, you are right. Wasting time on this chap seems to be exactly what he wants. Some people seem to get their kicks from being obtuse and it seems that eddie is one of them. Anyone who can suggest the confirmed presence of a specific explosive at the scene of, what appears to be an explosion is, in any way, the same as finding a dead dog with bites and assuming it’s the work of a Tasmanian devil. Perhaps if the DNA within the bites was from a Tasmanian devil then the link could be made as it would provide a chemical fingerprint a bit like finding thermite…. ahhh, I see a flaw in your logic eddie….

    I do notice that you seem to have accepted that the thermite was there and are now arguing for a link between that and what you seem to think would be a small army of people planting it. Perhaps you could come up with a good reason why thermite would be present… On second thoughts, don’t bother…

  • MJ

    I know what you mean KevinB but I think there is a point in arguing with eddie. The absurdity of eddie’s responses are just the absurdities of the official account.

    Lots of people still think like eddie about 9/11. They accept the official account without question because it is rarely, if ever, questioned in the MSM.

    Other people read these threads who don’t comment. If, with eddie’s gracious assistance, we can demonstrate how easily the official account crumbles into gibbering nonsense simply by setting out the evidence then that is probably rather useful.

  • eddie

    All I accept is that you people have mental health problems. You haven’t answered any of my substantive points and all you come back with is abuse, which unfortunately prompts me to retaliate. KevinB you are a well know racist on this site and Craig has upbraided you for your flights of fantasy. AS I’ve said before we don’t speak the same language so “debate” is pointless. THese fantasies must make you feel oh so superior to the mass of the people and if it’s a way of managing you own inadequacies so be it. David Shayler, David Icke, MJ, Chris and KevinB – what a motley collection.

  • MJ

    Not to mention Francesco Cossiga, former president of Italy; Michael Meacher MP; Gore Vidal; Col Ronald D Ray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Reagan; Capt Daniel Davis, US Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director; Lt Col Jeff Latas, President of the US Air Force Accident Investigation Board; Lt Col Karen Kwiatkowski, Air Force Colonel.

    And they’re just a few who have gone public.

    A motley collection indeed.

  • KevinB

    There are lies and there is truth.

    Truth is accessible to anyone who wants to make the effort.

    One does not seek truth in order to feel superior to anybody. One seeks it in order to feel at one with one’s self.

    Truth, also, is usually, on the personal as well as the public level a painful thing to discover. Engaging on any serious quest for truth will inevitably engender humility rather than pride.

    A Christian can identify and criticise wickedness but he should not feel too far removed from it. We have all sinned and we are all one in Christ also. When the rubbish is stripped away this is the great and ecstatic revelation. I have been helped through various circles of hell by people who often did not know the good they were doing. It is my responsibility, as a Christian, to deliver whatever truth I can in the hope of somehow returning the favour to society at large.

    We are here then we are gone.

    What for?

    To find truth?…..to learn to love?

    Sounds about right to me.

    MJ, you are right. Lots of people think about 9/11 like eddie….but that’s only because all they have been exposed to is mainstream media propaganda. I believed the official conspiracy theory myself until 2005…..then I was exposed to entirely new and undeniable information about the 9/11 attacks. It was the shock of my life.

    So, it is natural that most people have been deceived over 9/11.

    ‘eddie’ has no such excuse.

    He exhibits the qualities and behaviour of most of the trolls I have come across on 9/11 forums and elsewhere. He is simply not interested in real information, even if it is hard-core physics and chemical research. He is interested in name-calling, straw-manning and the like. There have been 9/11 trolls like ‘gravy’ (Mark Roberts), who spent years very intelligently, if falsely, working to undermine the detailed allegations of people like David Ray Griffin and ‘Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth’. He seems to have given up. Fox TV is now awarding these people respectful interviews. Times are changing.

    Another thing is that most of the American trolls post from places like Langley, Virginia and San Diego, California….in other words, big military/CIA centres.

    The point is that most of these people are paid to disable truth with lies. If you go to the trouble you can even find out the amount of money that the US congress pours into combating ‘cyber-terrorism’ which includes people who claim that 9/11 was an ‘inside job’.

    The reason 9/11 matters so much is not the scale of the crime, but what it tells us about financial power, government itself, the mainstream media and WHO THE REAL ENEMY IS.

    All the rest of politics pales into insignificance compared to this.

    The “War on Terror” is a complete fraud. Our government and the media are protecting the very same criminals that could easily (in pursuit of their globalist banking vision) start a world war and kill us all.

    No one is asking the tough questions.

    Paxman is protecting these people.

    John Humphries is protecting the.

    The Dimblebys are protecting them.

    God help us, even Robert Fisk is protecting them.

    As with our personal lives, the foremost enemy is WITHIN. It is here the battle must be won……with the oligarchs and elites that instigate and oversee such crimes.

    Most human beings genuinely seek the truth, although a great many shy away if they fear there might be a price to pay for speaking it.

    Truth is the matching of mind and reality. As a Christian minister I was listening to said this week:

    “There is truth in my mind when what is in my mind matches or corresponds to what is outside it, in reality.

    Let nobody pretend that any truth cannot be found when there is a way to find it. Such an individual merely demonstrates their lack of will to find it. There is a great lack of such will in what is still called “Western civilisation”.

    That is why it is Satanic” (Jn.VIII,44).

    I find it hard to argue with that.

  • Chris

    “Gore Vidal and Michael Meacher!

    I rest my case.”

    Yes, but the other side includes eddie, and I doubt the tablets will be enough for him…..

  • Jaded

    Ok, as eddie (Jessy) the spook internet muppet has conclusively lost this debate I hereby formally declare this thread closed. If anyone argues i’ll get Tony Blair to bugger them. I am guessing eddie has already been nicked by the men in white coats and is now in a cosy cell with soft walls. That is best for him, as I may have been forced to deal with him…

    RIP eddie. 🙁

    (violin music)

    ‘I know what you mean KevinB but I think there is a point in arguing with eddie. The absurdity of eddie’s responses are just the absurdities of the official account.

    Lots of people still think like eddie about 9/11. They accept the official account without question because it is rarely, if ever, questioned in the MSM.

    Other people read these threads who don’t comment. If, with eddie’s gracious assistance, we can demonstrate how easily the official account crumbles into gibbering nonsense simply by setting out the evidence then that is probably rather useful.’

    Yes, good point MJ. Best kept as short and sweet as possible though.

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