73 thoughts on “Stay Happy

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  • Arsalan

    dreoilin there is only thing that was achieved the the invasions were Israels wars were fought to achieve Israeli aims without Israeli lives being lost.

    Stephen is right Germany was defeated at a high price. And to defeat Israel may be a high price too, but I’m sure we will all agree that it will be a price worth paying.

    Israel must be defeated,

    and apatite must end.

  • stephen

    “there are many US, Israeli and British actions which I have opposed”

    Such as?

    The overthrow of Allende and US interference in much of Latin and Central America.

    Torture in Guantanamo, Iraqui jails and elsewhere

    The Vietnam War

    The Israeli massacres in the Lebanese refugee camps.

    The disproportionate use of violence in response to rocket attacks

    The building of the Wall

    The treatment of Mordecai Vanunu

    The fialure to talk with the PLO for many years, the delay in establishing homelands for the Palestinians

    Suez

    The overthrow of Mossadeq

    The support for the Shah

    and many others.

    But whenever they want to stand up to fascists and totalitarians and support the establishment of democracies they have my support.

  • stephen

    “And to defeat Israel may be a high price too, but I’m sure we will all agree that it will be a price worth paying.”

    Why cannot you accept that both the Jews and the Palestinian desire to have their own homelands have legitimacy – and that this can only be achieved by mutual recognition and compromise?

    Don’t you understand that it is the behaviour of you and your ilk that harden the resolve of some Israelis not to compromise?

  • arsalan

    Stephen because I choose to have it on someone elses land. They choose to have it by exterminataion and expellsion.

    This is what you Zionists try to pretend you don’t understand.

  • Stephen

    Stephen these slogans that you use, such as ” and that this can only be achieved by mutual recognition and compromise?”

    Are just slogans.

    In reality what it means is a ethnic cleansing of the Non-Jews in the land you choose to call Israel. While allowing someone does you choose not to murder to live in the concentration camps you call the Palestinian territories.

  • dreoilin

    “But whenever they want to stand up to fascists and totalitarians and support the establishment of democracies they have my support.”

    Was that supposed to be an answer to this?

    “what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions [Afghanistan and Iraq] apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein?”

    As for this:

    “the delay in establishing homelands for the Palestinians”

    The Palestinians have always had a ‘homeland’. Israel is determined to take it all from them, and apparently by extermination if necessary, via F-16s, bulldozers and blockades.

  • arsalan

    Stephan if it was acceptable for People to go there and kick everyone out of their homes, and then assume those that have been kicked out would suddenly say, “lets live together side by side as two friendly states”, the Palestinians left there homes and have said, “There are some people from Europe,America and other places who think this land is their’s, lets just leave our homes and our farms, give it all to them and move away, then live together in harmony.”

    But that didn’t happen then, and it isn’t going to happen now.

    Stephen let me put it this way. At the turn of the century when Zionism was first founded, and the Ottoman Khilafat was on the brink of collapse.

    The founder of Zionism the atheist Theodor Herzl offered to pay the Khilafah a huge amount of money for access to Palestine.

    The Khalif replied:

    “to have the scalpel cut my body is less painful than to witness Palestine being detached from the Khilafah state and this is not going to happen …let the Jews keep their millions and once the Khilafah is torn apart one day, then they can take Palestine without a price.”

    And that is exactly what happened when the Khilafah was destroyed. The Zionists got for free what they couldn’t buy.

    And after the Khilafah is re-established, it will be taken back.

    You know this, that is why you tried to frighten people who are against the aid to the Karimov regime, that if he collapses Khilafah will be re-established.

    You tried to fain concern about the people he boils alive.

    But you know boiling people alive is the only way he is managing to keep his Zionist friendly government.

    And yes you are right and Craig is wrong, it is likely the Khilafah will replace Karimov, and when it does, your Israel will be next.

    Where we differ is I see it as a good thing, and you see it as a bad.

  • Stephen

    I think you will find that many Jews will go as far back as Moses in arguing that Israel is their homeland. The history however doesn’t really help matters. Both sides believe they have valid claims – and both do, and both have committed gross injustices in the past.

    The only sensible resolution is a multi state solution and mutual recognition. Attribution of blame is extremely difficult and doesn’t actually achieve anything.

    Compromise is a wonderful thing – but is hard for those who have to do it.

  • dreoilin

    Stephen, do you have no answer to this?

    “what exactly do you think has been achieved so far by both invasions [Afghanistan and Iraq] apart from the hanging of Saddam Hussein?”

  • Arsalan

    Stephen and Muslims will go as far back as Moses too because he is one of our Prophets.

    I find it strange that Zionists will use Moses as a justification, considering the majority of them including the founder of Zionism are atheists.

    Very strange indeed!

    Stephen what you call “multi state solutio” Non-Zionists call apatite, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

    The compromise will come after the invasion. You will find that the Palestinians are every forgiving for the injustices they received at the hands of the Zionists. The negotiations will be about if/how we all live together in Palestine.

    If/how houses and lands that had their inhabitance exterminated or expelled are returned to their true owners.

    I can’t really answer how that will be resolved. I am not a Palestinian.

    But after the liberation, I may decide to become one.

    I would hope there are Zionist settlers who would choose to remain as Jewish Palestinians after the invasion.

    Israel is going to end, the Khilafah will be re-established and it will end.

    The only uncertainty are will the people who re-establish it and invade Israel be people like me, who have no animosity with Jews and are willing to live side by side with them as equal citizens. Or would victory be given to some others who don’t share my views.

    If it is people like me, they will have to obey us and tolerate you.

    If it is them, we will have to obey them, and be not so willing to compromise.

    But even the worst of us aren’t Zionists, so you will find, even if the other lot are the ones that rule the Muslim world and liberate Palestine, they will behave better towards the Zionists then the Zionists are now behaving towards the Palestinians.

    Much better, because we are not you, none of us are anything like you, including the worst of us.

    If I lived in an Islamic state, and people behaved like you towards Jews, I would rebel.

    You wont, now, because you and me are very different.

  • Richard Robinson

    arsalan – I saw this a day or two ago, it suprised me – the israeli “settlers” showing signs of actually thinking about getting on with the neighbours :-

    http://warincontext.org/2010/04/01/one-state-realism/

    I don’t really know what to make of it,

    never having been there to know what it’s actually like, but it looks like maybe the beginning of something different ? Maybe.

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