There is an extremely important article here on Breivik’s funding, by Justin Raimondo.
It also makes plain that not only did Pamela Geller post a string of virulent anti Norwegian-Muslim articles on her website, not only did she travel to Norway to address a hate rally, not only did Brehvik post to her website and quote it as an influence. She actively supported and encouraged those planning to use terrorism.
This is an excerpt from an email she says she received and posted on her blog:
“I am running an email I received from an Atlas reader in Norway. It is devastating in its matter-of-factness.
“Well, yes, the situation is worsening. Stepping up from 29 000 immigrants every year, in 2007 we will be getting a total of 35 000 immigrants from somalia, iran, iraq and afghanistan. The nations capital is already 50% muslim, and they ALL go there after entering Norway. Adding the 1.2 births per woman per year from muslim women, there will be 300 000+ muslims out of the then 480 000 inhabitants of that city.
“Orders from Libya and Iran say that Oslo will be known as Medina at the latest in 2010, although I consider this a PR-stunt nevertheless it is their plan.
“From Israel the hordes clawing at the walls of Jerusalem proclaim cheerfully that next year there will be no more Israel, and I know Israel shrugs this off as do I, and will mount a strike during the summer against all of its enemies in the middle east. This will make the muslims worldwide go into a frenzy, attacking everyone around them.
“We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast.
As Raimondo says, Geller goes on to say that she is protecting the proto-terrorist’s identity so he won’t be arrested. We do not know how this wannabe terrorist in Norway relates to Breivik or his other “cells”. Geller may know but the police are not asking her.
There can be no doubt at all that, were Geller a Muslim, this amount of evidence and connection would have her in jail by now. Do not hold your breath.
ALL people in the world have the SAME gene that gives them the colour of their skin. The gene is 100% the same. Why we have white (which by the way it is not!, its a light brown/pink colour), is because people who have lived in a cooler climate need more sunshine and the gene has powered itself down to try and give them it. Black/brown people need to repel the damage that too much sunshine would do to their skins. Swap white/brown people and black/brown people around from where they live and come back in about 10,000 years and you would find white people in the cooler climate, and black/brown people in the hot climate. Science has known about this for years!, it was discovered by two scientists in USA. By the way, they said, the TRUE colour of EVERYONE on the planet is BLACK, we are all the same, one race, the…human race.
MJ: certainly a key to unlocking this nonsense, I do agree. But once you remove all the weasel words about race and origin, the weasels are left naked and exposed…
Guest: exactly, it’s about the melanin, a pigment ‘ubiquitous in nature’ according to wiki, found in just about everything – with the exception of spiders. Perhaps these strange, fanatical, divisive pink people are aiming for spiderdom, not weaseldom, after all.
Amazing that it all comes down to the amount of melanin within our bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin
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Earlier I was thinking how terrific it is that Nadira who did not speak English as a first language, can take on the role of Medea. Not many of us could go out to Uzbekistan, learn the language and start using it on the stage. |
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PS Does Karimov allow theatre in Uzbekistan?
{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_language}
Guest: absolutely, but it probably wouldn’t take as long as 10,000 years.
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I remember watching an anthropological film about an African tribe whose name I forget. In this tribe, girls who were going through puberty were totally confined for six months. They were put in a windowless hut that they were not permitted leave until the time was up. When they eventually emerged they were white!
technicolour, we DIDN`T really need those two scientists in USA to tell us what was staring us in the face!!!. Anyone can see the black going to pink the further north you traveled from the equator!. By the way, those two scientists in USA were advocating doing research into powering up the gene in white people in preparation for climate change, they said a lot of pink people were going to suffer from skin cancer. Makes you think about doing more on the climate change front.
“Guest: absolutely, but it probably wouldn’t take as long as 10,000 years.”
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MJ, I just put that in as a figure. You are very probably right, a lot less then 10,000 years.
‘the whole debate about ‘indigenousness’ has been raised by the Rabid Right; as so often before, they’ve appropriated a term from a specific other thematic area and then used it to apply to wholly different circumstances.’
I’m not sure by what you mean by ‘different circumstances ‘ here Suhayl.
My take on this is that some people are quite happy to insist on the correct usage of ‘indigenous’ when applying it to any human population outside of western Europe, but deny the applicability of the correct usage of the word in this particular part of the world.
Furthermore, resentment of incomers, about whose presence the ‘indigenous’ haven’t been consulted, is widespread in all continents, but only in the case of western Europe is express opposition to this process deemed to be completely unacceptable and beyond the pale. Hence the attempts, by Technicolour & others (including, apparently, Yugo/Larry), to muddy the meaning of the term ‘indigenous’.
Now, back to the thrilling developments at Trent Bridge- please !
“indigenousness”
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That word can only be used in relation to this planet!, NOT country, “country” is a manmade conception!.
‘Hardly an ‘oblique’ reference to people in Leicester’s ancestral origins, by the way: you suggested that in some way it didn’t qualify them as ‘indigenous’. In fact, it not only qualifies them as ‘indigenous’, it qualifies them as ‘native British’’.
Lets try to cut away the outrage & the squid ink here, shall we Techie ?
You seem to be saying here, in your characteristically incoherent way, that Leicester’s Gujerati population are ‘native British’.
OK- fifty years ago, most of the ancestors of the Leicester Gujeratis lived in East Africa, not England.(Don’t just take my word for it, read Dr. Gurharpal Singh’s book on multi-racial Leicester).When they were resident (in some case for three generations)in East Africa in 1960, would it have been correct to refer to them as ‘native Africans ? If not, why not ?
Pull the other one, you deluded ignoramus.
ooh, didn’t take long for you to resort to insults, did it, ‘OldMark’. No, I am saying that anyone born in the UK is ‘indigenous’ to it, and ‘native’. Those are the definitions. Sorry.
I appreciate that anyone who lives in a country for a number of years might feel part of it to the point that they would feel either, and that indeed the definitions would also at points cover that (see: growing/living in – Webster Mariam, above). I would never argue with that. I also see Guest’s wider point and heartily concur: indeed, it is my main rationale, too.
But, ‘OldMark’ why don’t you just have a conversation with your doppelgangers? Sounds like you would enjoy it far more.
Old Mark, might I request that you please stop addressing technicolour in that way? We can disagree, but no need for calling a person “a deluded ignoramus”, a “charlatan” and so on. I am beginning to conclude, I’m afraid, that you are neither naive nor simplistic. You’re really endorsing the same material that the web-based Far Right of which Alfred/Can Speccy is emblematic, endorses. That now seems very clear. Thank you for making it clear.
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Paft, now that is a rather significant find wrt Geller/Breivik, do spread it around the web. Thank you or sharing it with us all here.
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Guest, that was a wonderfully powerful post – really, a statement of common humanity.
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MJ, Mary, good research and info., as always!
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The focus here, I would suggest, needs to stay on Breivik/Geller/Far Right blogs/and most importantly, funding. Who gave Breivik the dosh? Who might have been behind him?
‘OldMark’: “resentment of incomers, about whose presence the ‘indigenous’ haven’t been consulted, is widespread in all continents”
bleurgh. and you’d like to foster that, wouldn’t you?
The Far Right is trying to focus the debate on immigration/the presence of black, brown and yellow people in ‘Europe’, etc., i.e. the same-auld, same-auld reekie material. Actually, the debate ought to be the role of the Far Right in the promotion of violent, organised acts of terrorism and and exploration of the possible role of state/ transnational corporate actors and organisations in that process. What are these offshore companies in the Caribbean? How might thye relate to Far Right bodies such as the EDL (and their equivalents across Europe), what about the mass blog presence of Far Right exponents of which, it seems, Breivik was just one. And so on.
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So let’s turn it around. We, the humans who live in these parts of the world, i.e. ‘Europe’ – have absolutely no need to justify our presence/existence/ our identity/our loyalty, etc. Those on the Far Right, on the other hand, have much to explain about, not their beliefs – we know all about those – but their actions. For whom, specifically, might they be working?
Technicolour- you’ve posted here twice since I asked you whether, using the definition you insist I adhere to, it is appropriate to refer to Gujeratis born & resident in East Africa 50 years ago as ‘native Africans ? You clearly don’t wish to answer the question. Like I said in my first post on this thread, you really are one for moving the goalposts when you feel like it.
‘and you’d like to foster that, wouldn’t you?’- since I’m married to an ‘incomer’ I certainly wouldn’t. The fact that you accuse me of such incitement says a hell of a lot about you, rather than me.
The history of the terrorist Far Right in mainland Europe, post-WW2, would tend to suggest that they were largely funded by either a state or else a national intelligence service. Why, then, would one not make this assumption, at least as a thought-experiment, in the case of Breivik?
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So, there’s the question of the overt plan and act, matters of materiel. And then, there is the question, raised in this post, of the coalescence of a public support network for individuals with these beliefs and the extent to which that support network might be deemed responsible for ramping-up and egging-on, networking, such individuals and organisations across national frontiers. Within this point is the issue of several strands of reactionary thought and strategy coming together; the union, or at least confederation, of the Zionist Far Right with the Neo-Nazi Far Right, which, I would suggest, is an entirely logical, not altogther new, but extremely dangerous, confluence, and so on. Also, there is the ongoing question of the broader discourse of hate in which the ruling elites of the USA/UK et al and their amplifiers in the MSM have engaged for some years now, largely in the context of the promotion of imperialist wars. And finally, there is the issue of what impact this massacre will have on politics and the political space in Europe.
Classic tactics: is it “appropriate to refer to Gujeratis born & resident in East Africa 50 years ago as ‘native Africans”. The non-stupid answer is that certainly one should refer to someone born and living in Kenya , say, as ‘Kenyan’: unless, in fact, they did not wish to be referred to as Kenyan. Toujours la politesse. On which note, you are very welcome to this guide to international manners, ‘Old Mark’, as well as to geo-political realities. Similarly, one refers to someone born in the UK as British (or Scottish or Welsh, or English, or Northern Irish, if they prefer). If they have dual nationality, they can also choose.
But, Suhayl, you are quite right: it is also a diversionary tactic which only serves to expose tedious truisms about the Far Right. Questions about the funding of the EDL and other groups, and their links to terrorists, are far more interesting. I can quite see it would be in their interests to sweep this under the carpet; certainly a wing of the BNP wanted to oust Griffin because his links to violence were open (in the case of his Nazi past) and unearthed (his links to the KKK). Research and destroy…
“or at least confederation, of the Zionist Far Right with the Neo-Nazi Far Right, which, I would suggest, is an entirely logical, not altogther new, but extremely dangerous, confluence”
Also mentioned elsewhere on this blog links between the extreme left and the extreme right in Norway. In the meantime our ‘mainstream’ (corporate) government are still bombing Libya, aren’t they? Sometimes I feel that Superman’s message in the much underrated Superman IV is the best note to end on before supper:
“There will be peace when the people of the world, want it so badly, that their governments will have no choice but to give it to them.”
Not sure about that extra comma, mind you.
‘Similarly, one refers to someone born in the UK as British’
So, Technicolour, you’ve never met anyone from Andersonstown or Crossmaglen then ? What a sheltered life you’ve led.
“What was the thing about Steven Biko and the judge?” — Suhayl
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A line from the film Cry Freedom, where Steve Biko is in court and the judge asks him, “Why do you call yourself black when you’re brown?” and Steve Biko replies, “Why do you call yourself white when you’re pink?” My sons (who were watching it with me) thought this was an hilarious smack-down of the judge. (They were at an age where pink = “sissy”, but they understood the race issue very well.)
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MJ, this is the report about origins that I was talking about (2007):
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“The skulls that prove we all came from Africa”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-skulls-that-prove-we-all-came-from-africa-457844.html
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“The human population arose from a single migration out of Africa 55,000 years ago, which replaced all other humans in Europe and Asia, a study shows.
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“Scientists have confirmed the “out-of-Africa” model of human origins with a study that combines genetic evidence with physical data from more than 6,000 skulls around the world …
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“Studies of DNA and the physical differences between skulls show that human variation diminishes the greater the distance from Africa. This confirms the view that after originating in Africa about 200,000 years ago, anatomically modern Homo sapiens lived on the continent for about 150,000 years before beginning the long trek to Asia, Australia, Europe and finally the Americas …”
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I remember posting about it on far-right sites at the time, hoping to give some nasty white supremacist a stroke. Heh.
“they said a lot of pink people were going to suffer from skin cancer. Makes you think about doing more on the climate change front.”
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I assumed white people were more susceptible to melanoma, and then I discovered that Bob Marley died of melanoma. Meant to follow it up but got distracted by something else, as usual …
Dreoilin: what I was talking about is much more recent than that, 10-15k years ago, practically yesterday. The genetic evidence points to a distinct bottleneck around that time. There were only a few thousand people left. Everyone on the planet today is descended from them. It looks like homo sapiens almost became extinct around that time, but there were enough survivors to enable recovery and repopulation.
dreoilin, in the sad case Bob Marley there could have been other factors ?. Skin cancer kills many around the world. It is a fact that the darker the skin the less chance of skin cancer from the Sun. I think a lot of cancers are caused by what we eat, and the amount of man-made chemicals we eat/inhale and are exposed too!, the amount of chemicals in our clothes is just one example. It is said man was made a vegetarian and not a meat eater!, there may be something in that!, after all, our second stomach (appendix) has withered away due to us not using/needing it anymore, all due to man`s eating habits changing over so many thousands Of years.
Technicolour, wrt our corporate govts and wars, yes, precisely. Also, “Research and destroy” – I like it!! And yes, I know of lot of East African Asians who loved Kenya, Uganda, etc., who were not necessarily racist wrt black Africans and who and still mourn what was/is a very deep loss to them. Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is one. It was their home. They usually feel more connection with East Africa than they do with South Asia. They often also now feel British/English. These matters are complex, and that is good, they ought to be. To try to boil everone down to a single, monolithic identity (though nothing wrong if someone sees themselves that way, or if someone wants/needs to emphasise one aspect, or whatever for whatever reasons), but to impose it on others as a sort of condition of existence, is both daft and dangerous. Not daft, actually, just wrong.
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Dreoilin, thanks, that’s a wonderful quote from Steve Biko.
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And good on you for posting such intelligent material on Far Right sites – and injecting some light into what is a rather profound darkness.
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And yes, you’re quite right, brown and black people do get melanoma and other such skin tumours – basal cell and squamous cell carcinomas, for example, though much less often than pinker cousins. It happens, though, eg. in Pakistan, etc. I think there may be some genetic vulnerability – as with many tumours, actually, so some people will simply be more vulnerable to aberrant mutation of certain cells, or rather, to the body being unable to search and destroy mutated cells (as all our bodies do, many times every day; in fact, the systems are so complex, I’ve often thought that it’s a wonder anything at all works!). Billions of years of evolution impart strength, I guess. This elegance and complexity is a marvel, in the sort of ‘Carl Sagan’ (one of my heroes!) sense, and makes all the narrow, tribal stuff seem so very pathetic.
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Someone like Breivik is pathetic, a loser, a nothing. that’s not to say that there were not forces behind him, etc. as I’ve suggested. But he’s not a hero or a villain. he’s like the taxi-driver in Cumbria, or the murderers of Hungerford/Dunblane, etc. He’s a nobody who wanted to become somebody and who had no specific talent. He’s simply another product of the society of the spectacle (or of the icon, as Mark Golding would have it).
“Someone like Breivik is pathetic”
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He is not pathetic, he is insane, like (sadly) so many in this world, but, we are where we are, we have to deal with it as best we can. Always remember Pandora`s box, what else have we ?.
I’m not so sure, Guest, that he is insane. I think he knew precisely what he was doing. If he were insane, one might be able to say, “Well, he was ill”. From what I’ve heard so far, there does not seem to be any evidence the Breivik was ill. In other words, he is likely to be bad, rather than mad.
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I would say, “I spit on him”. But I wouldn’t waste even my spit on such a man. He was the instrument. Who was the conductor?
Jaysus, Pamela Geller is “Clarifying the Edit” and “explaining” why, “We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast”, was removed:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/clarifying-email-from-norway-edit.html
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and then ranting again about Norway:
“Summer Camp? Antisemitic Indoctrination Training Center”, (thereby taking the same line as Glenn Beck, the moronic asshole who likened the camp to Hitler Youth)
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/summer-camp-indoctrination-training-center.html
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Sorry folks, got to fly, back later …
Now, here’s an interesting compliation relating to both Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. It makes fascinating reading.
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http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/robert_spencer_pamela_geller_and/0018701
Suhayl, there’s an Irish expression, “I wouldn’t give him the steam off my piss”.
I did another comment and I was just about to go “Where? what?? {splutter}” until I realised it has two links in it. I assume it’ll appear later. À bientôt
“Who was the conductor?”
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Would be worth finding out more about his parents background!, his father…”Breivik’s father worked as a diplomat for the Royal Norwegian Embassy in London (and later Paris).” Must have made many foreign contacts from all around the world, but who were they ?, “Royal Norwegian Embassy” would have involved many in international intelligence, how many knew his son ?. Somewhere in there I think is the answer, but…who knows, there may have been no conductor ?.