The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Thread seems incapable of addressing who caused the Lake Annecy massacre, and why – what turned out to be an utter fiasco, leading to the mayhem which is now in full swing.
Just makes me wonder if this Herskovitz was responsible for William Hershkovitz, the “nice kid” from New Hyde Park, USA, deciding to join the Mossad:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/04/26/the-role-of-jews-in-the-palestinian-solidarity-movement/
Poor William didn’t have a clue about what he was gettting into.
Also, would help explain why Ferret was so dogged in misspelling
William’s family name.
OK, I am going to start from the first Police arriving at the scene.
BM tells what happened and shows his ID. This ID has to immediately say to the police that you believe me when I say they are all dead in the car.
Ex-RAF doesnt do that.
SAS (or UK intel) may do that but would they immediately believe a foreign agent? Perhaps they had to call their superiors for orders.
French SAS equivalent or Intel may succeed in freezing the scene and them believing him.
They also have to believe he is not the prime suspect, which is no easy assumption to take on board by BMs testimony alone.
Was there someone else so far unmentioned that had the ID to say this is what you do/believe me totally (presumably only a French Police chief or Secret Service)
What time do we believe that Brett Martin was allowed to leave the scene? Who allowed him to leave? Why did they let hime go? Before forensics arrived?
Was the interviewed Brett Martin ever in Chevaline. No reason to link the actor to the scene.
What is the earliest report or blog we can find that gives details of BM to tally to the interviewed guy?
@Straw44berry
21 Nov, 2012 – 8:43 am
I’m getting forgetful here now.
Which of the various ‘witnesses’ said the sapeurs-pompiers (mistranslated as the ‘fire brigade’) passed them on their way up the valley, because they’d heard about the incident on their radios?
Is there a timing for this?
Mochyn
That was just a logic issue of mine concluding regarding cheminade.
Cheminade hates russians and his whole live he suffers on a russianphobia.
LePen however, is a friend of Putin and his FN receives funding from russia.
Other than that, cheminade and LePen have the same goals and the same ideology. Therefore i assume that Cheminade rather supports MNR (Metre) than FN (LePen).
But all of them, FN, MNR and S&P are far right wing socialists.
Americans always face the problem that they were told that socialists are always left. That is wrong. Socialism alone is neither left nor right. It depends always on the ideology of the leading party about what they are doing with their socialism. Hitler was a socialist, too. However he was a national socialist, far right. And so are LePen and Cheminade and LaRouche far right wing socialists.
re 3d video of a crime scene I’ve just found that video
http://www.muenchen-tv.de/sendungen/110_DAS_POLIZEIMAGAZIN/3D_Lasertechnik-1883.html
unfortunately not in English- but may be some of you’ll understand a bit – or even more….
Anyway, even without words quite interesting to see how that works.
They say, the camera is about 150’000 Euro and it takes just a few minutes to take a “shot” of the scene.. and they need 2-3 of them to create a 3d-look to work on.
According to the resport- the “working on” it takes about 20hrs to “redact”.
So, IF (if) they took this type of investigation at Martinet, they very (!!!!) well know what ecactly had happened that very day.
Even how tall the killer was… and they even can prove what WMB has told them… at what point he had seen what…. even they could inspect the skull of Zainab and find the item that caused her injuries…. (as shown in the vid)
But they’re telling just uninteresting facts, which the next day will be withdrawn.
So they might have quite a good reason to do so.
So, who said it takes 2 hours to get it done with that sepecial cam?
May be that’s too much to do so.
IMHO, there was a very big thing happening for such a big wall of silence.
Very Nice..
It took years for the mi6 to agree to cooperate on the UK spy William Gareth murder with the police just this year..aka . The spy in the bag case . The crossdressing.. behaviour and being found locked in a bag found in fetal position..were the least of the bizarre things that happened, Us Intelligence, FBI, Hague to sign agreement not to say such and such..like the DNA evidence had to be thrown out, because of contamination, door locks missing..
It remains unsolved with the strong stigma of coverup as in the Hilli case.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9175962/Was-MI6-spy-in-a-bag-Gareth-Williams-killed-by-secret-service-dark-arts.html
When Hague, Hollande, and Cameron spoke on this case..message is all say same story..every must be on same page..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/spy-gareth-williams-was-probably-the-victim-of-a-criminally-mediated-unlawful-killing-7707297.html
Note how the mother comes out immediately in this spy in bag case….unlike our case everyone withdraws..until almost 2 months later.
And yes Shela..(please you must tell me how to call you correctly..)we are fed the same pablum..every few days,.
Mein Hut, der hat drei Ecken,
Drei Ecken hat mein Hut,
Und hätt er nicht drei Ecken,
So wär es nicht mein Hut.
😀
@ Shelock H. 21 Nov, 2012 – 10:20 am
[re 3D laser scan]
“So, who said it takes 2 hours to get it done with that sepecial cam? May be that’s too much to do so.”
It was on one of the manufacturer’s pages, but that maybe is an older or cheaper model that isn’t as fast. They said a scan took two hours so forensic techs had to decide whether to leave scene untouched for that time and lose some info like body temp.
Thanks for link. I’ll look at it later.
Another conspiracy. Pretty good one. Framed patsy etc.
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/innocent-patsy-hanged.html?m=1
Contains this: “Triple Canopy was founded in Chicago in 2003 by U.S. Army Special Forces veterans. Triple Canopy has experience managing cases in India, Nigeria and Somalia.”
In the Mumbai attacks of 2008, eyewitnesses said some of the attackers “included Nigerian or Somali mercenaries.”
“It appears that the Obama administration has decided on its hired guns of choice: Triple Canopy, a Chicago company…
“Triple Canopy has … a record of hiring mercenaries from countries with atrocious human rights records…”
Other pages say the Blackwater dudes, the ones that Iraq kicked out, many of them just transferred to Triple Canopy. Connections to limousines – probably armored ones for moving important people around, like Gens. P & A, Mrs. B & K maybe Mrs. K’s twin sis. Might be interesting for those who can search better.
question @ all:
– Do we know, actually, that SAH wasn’t (any more/longer) under surveillance (as he’s supposed to have been around war in irak)?
– Allegedly the family was with their passports when found dead- so THEY knew their names. But how did they found out so fast that they had stayed at the camp side? Press says, people from the camp side told police there must be a second child- so they started to have a closer look… how long does it take to find that out? Is that suspecious or not?
– the 3d camera- can the scan be taken even in the night?
– Is it possible, that SAH (as a specialist in satelites etc) had chosen “Martinet” and not any other place for a potential meeting?
Means, might be he knew for sure, nobody could “trace” him – even not from above. And if another car had followed them on the way up to the lay-by, he would have realized that quite fast?
– is it possible the killer wanted to sent out a message for NOT killing the kids?
– Did anyone here put a closer (2nd) look at that man who cared for AH’s father in Spain?
Have more to ask – but should be enough for the moment.
Looking forward to reading your comments 😉
@ Sys: Shelock – without “R”, because female…
– any news/ideas out there about the missing part of his, SAH’s, roof rack?
Shelock,
Felix discovered that house opposite family home in Claygate was being let.
Al-Hilli garden wasnt very well kept with the exception of the front hedge being recently trimmed.
2+2 = trimming solely to be watched from house opposite, therefore stopping the need to watch from a car in a neighbours driveway.
Also assumes that SAH was willing to be watched.
Maybe an assumption too far – you have to decide that for yourself.
The trimming of the hedge so neatly made me twitch before Felix’s find.
——————
Campsite story about 2nd girl probably ‘Fairytale’
Passports in footwell of SAH couldnt be found pre midnight due to frozen scene.
—————————–
Roof rack –
I have toured on holiday with a roof box and was surprised when it was removed how much dirt was on the roof beneath from air being forced thru the 3 inch gap below the box.
I couldnt decide whether the dirt on the roof suggested a bike had been there recently or not and whether the other strut had been missing long
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renseignements_G%C3%A9n%C3%A9raux ?
Timeline. TWO FIXED POINTS. Trying hard to force the bits of the jigsaw together:
Laurent Filion-Robert saw the SAH plum BMW pass the Bewick’s house, last in village, opposite farm of the Ducher family. Lise says she saw nothing, but the timing of her sitting on the balcony has not been given. Laurent said the car came by at about 3pm. SAH gave a friendly wave to the builders who had to back off from the kerb where they were working. Saw no other car or bikes. (Later said 4×4 and m’bike had passed earlier.) But there is the other quieter road – Moulin – which turns off left (east) in the centre of Chevaline and runs parallel to Main St. The two roads join again a bit further along at the start of the Forest Rd. And also an Ancien Rd starting at Arnaud going all the way to Martinet.
WBM left home as usual in the afternoon at 2.30pm and had been out for an hour and a half at the time he was cycling the climb up the Valley – a climb which normally took 30 mins . This timing is way out. But why should it be thought the first phone call was 4.10pm? WBM clearly says he flagged down Phillipe D and begged / urged him to do this , “which he did”, ie at 3.48pm THREE FORTY EIGHT (“chronodated” – is this a term for skiing or cycling races?) This was the first call made and was at request of WBN but made by PD – so both can claim credit for it. PD says he first saw WBM “a little before 4pm”. PD and WBM went up to Martinet together (place of the Martins – a type of small bird) and then PD came down and made a second (probably more detailed) call probably around 4pm. The following weekend he was asked to go back and check details of his evidence – the timing was confirmed
Then there is a time stamped picture of SAH et fam in Arnaud, at 3.15pm. THREE FIFTEEN So what was SAH doing after passing the house at the end of the village around 3pm? Did he turn left at the junction, go back via the Moulin Road to Arnaud, take some pictures there and then retrace his way to Forest Road? So he would get to the junction and start on the Forest Rd at 3.20 or minutes later.
As WBM was not seen by Laurent Fillion-Robin going along the main road, maybe he got on the Moulin Road in Arnaud or took the turning left in Chevaline village to join it there. Where had he been for the previous hour plus? He saw a green ?ONF 4×4 come down the hill as he went up , followed by a motorbike, when he was about half way up. He didn’t hear the shots, which was later field tested as valid some hundred or two meters below the lay-by. Rough estimate of his speed at 10mph could mean he left the start of the Forest Rd at 3.25 at a time when he noticed a cyclist, SM, just ahead of him. SAH has to leave the photo place at 3.16pm and reaches / passes the junction at 3.20pm and gets to the lay-by just before 3.30pm. WBM reaches the lay-by at 3.45pm taking twice as long as SM. Cycling at 20mph, SM starts the climb just before WBM at 3.22pm and gets to the lay-by just after 3.30pm -heading straight into the middle of the violent ambush.
Just a thought. It has been pointed out that there is a turn off to the left (east) in Arnaud which joins the Forest Rd a little way North of Martinet. The killer (on a motorbike) could have used this route in and out, but maybe the ONF stopped him on the way back and made him come down on the Forest Rd with them.
Just a thought. Time in France in summer (CEST) is 2 hours ahead of GMT. Arabia Standard Time (ie Baghdad) AST = GMT + 3 hrs (no summer time in AST) So at 15.15AST it is 14.15CEST (Central Europe Summer Time)
@Sys
21 Nov, 2012 – 12:48 am
“Binney details how the top-secret surveillance program, the scope of which has never been made public, can track electronic activities—phone calls, emails, banking and travel records, social media—and map them to collect “all the attributes that any individual has” in every type of activity and build a profile based on that data.
“So that now I can pull your entire life together from all those domains and map it out and show your entire life over time,” Binney says.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nsa-whistleblower-william-binney-explains-nsa-surveillance-2012-8#ixzz2CrWPxeep”
We have pretty well known for thirty years that all western governments have had advanced electronic surveillance of all telephonic communication and it would indeed be surprising if this had not been extended to the internet. We have a society which is is not being honest with itself, believing that constitutions do indeed deliver the protections they purport to provide. It is almost as if we live in a parallel universe – the world of the mortals and the invisible inscrutable one of the gods.
Now as it relates to these Hilli killings, and no doubt to many others, please do not come up with the pathetic line “that there no leads” when all relevant electronic communication, of all the parties involved, is there at the touch of some spook’s button.
@NR
I didn’t explain myself properly. I meant that while individual bits may prove a conspiracy, there are so many of them that they confuse a casual observer. It’s like prosecutors that go on and on for weeks presenting every last item of evidence to prove guilt to where they bore and confuse the jury. While the defense only need disprove one part of the story to raise reasonable doubt.
Ah yes, I see what you mean now. There is a lot of information. I found that a good week spent at sites like 911research.wtc7.net really helped sort it out. Plenty of good articles with well-reasoned and well-thought-out arguments, with factual basis and references.
But your reasoning defies logic. For example, if a prosecution claimed that Mr X was a murderer, and his defense put forward 1,000 pieces of evidence to prove that he was not, the prosecution do not prove their case by disproving just ONE of these pieces of evidence: they have to disprove EVERY ONE. (Or at least, the vast majority.)
The bombs may be convincing on their own, but there are so many stories covering the whole of 9/11 it seems overkill
Fair enough. The reason there’s so much material is that none of the aspects of the “official conspiracy theory” add up when you look at them closely. So there are a lot of angles of research. Sorry if you find that overwhelming. I certainly did, at first.
, and I was thinking some were fed to the press to confuse matters.
Well… “fed”, maybe, but “to the press”??? Hardly. The press really doesn’t report on what they refer to disparagingly as “conspiracy theories”. I would agree there may well be some false leads put out on the internet, if that’s what you mean?
Why would the MSM suppress the conspiracy?
Because they were told to, and because they are owned/controlled by the same interests as brought down the twin towers. Hint: it wasn’t some guy in a robe in a cave in Afghanistan. If you doubt this, you can research the reporters in the US who tried to dig into the story and were warned off in no uncertain terms.
If it was a plot by Bush, Cheney and the neocons you’d think they’d delight in blaming them, as they did Nixon and crew for Watergate. Yet the MSM is the one that brands anyone who questions 9/11 as a silly “Truther” right alongside UFOers and those who claim the moon landings are fake.
Yes, but sadly the media isn’t what we’ve been led to believe. And the point about Nixon has already been answered earlier on this board: he is the exception which proves the rule. Bush, Che[y]ney & co had their asses nicely covered by the MSM.
I took a quick look the lawn wreckage and noticed parts, an engine cowling sticks in my mind, whose size and color matched that of the supposed plane, American Airlines I recall, and at that point thought the official story re the Pentagon is likely correct.
I cannot agree with you here, there is no picture of any “engine cowling” at the Pentagon.
There is a picture of a small piece of twisted metal with AA livery on the Pentagon lawn, backwards and to the left of the crash site, and quite some distance from it. The torn metal is in good condition, no rust, and no blackening from fire or blast, and it is too small to be identified with any one particular aircraft.
And there is a picture of an engine nascelle (the inside bit) which is exactly the size of a cruise missile engine. This was found inside several of the armoured rings of the pentagon, through which it had penetrated.
Search Google Images for “pentagon plane wreckage”.
What I meant to say, was not that the towers came down, with or without assistance of explosives, But why did they need to totally destroy both towers? Wouldn’t two planes crashing into the top have been enough of a disaster, with the towers still standing? Admittedly it made a far better spectacle – something James Cameron or another imaginative director would plan.
Exactly. Planes in just the top of the towers would not have galvanised the American people to go to war half way around the planet in two unrelated countries without asking some serious questions.
Olifant
We can disagree on all of this but I believe:
Laurent Filion-Robert testimony ‘Fairytale’ I dont believe the convenient story that the British owners of the house he was working on also own a maroon BMW and they both looked up and thought they had returned. They had been slacking and would have been caught. Sorry, story is laughable unless we get car record confirming it.
I dont believe anything WBM says about times and believe if you asked him now would get a different script.
Photos time and date stamped could have been taken anytime. If they wanted to have an alibi SAH would purposely set up this ride with photo stops. Perhaps he did as an alibi to him killing SM.
3.48 phone call to Police I do believe as being correct but probably from British Intel after BM contacted them.
If nothing else, this murder investigation can be taken as indicative of the contempt in which the intelligence of the general public is held by those behind these brutal acts. As such it is dangerous not only for targetted individuals but for all of us. A half-hearted attempt at solving the crime is also indicative of at least apathy as to its implications or more seriously, complicity in it.
thanks Strawberry @ 12:40
Just one example from 100’s: “””….She was found “terrorised, motionless, in the midst of the bodies” after fellow guests at the campsite told officers the family had two children, Mr Maillaud said….”””
Yes, until around midnite THEY only had the car-plate-number… okay with that they might find out to whom the car belongs- but – given to the facts that it takes 10 years to solve the crime, it’s a miracle, how fast they had found out the campsite they had stayed at…. it could as well have been that they had stayed in a hotel or just passing by on their way back home.
Would you think this is a proof that THEY knew from the beginning who the victims were and where they had their “bed&breakfast” in France?
re trimmed hedge:
you’re right! Compared to the messy-all-over-picture of his estate this is quite outstanding (which tells me- they hadn’t been much cash in their pockets for proper maintenance at all, beside gardening)
Having a big house doesn’t mean being rich at the same time.
Ok, so it might be possible SAH was working somehow working “undercover”…. eg with the approval of government? How would WBM would fit into that? With SM as an innocent cyclist?
Strawberry !
Thanks for that. That has had me wondering from day one !
So can you confirm it one more time please.
When you have used a “travel box” on your roof rack, it collects dirt on the roof of the car ?
As in, just like SAH’s BMW shows in the pictures ?
Therefore it would be safe to assume he had a roof box when he drove over to France ?
If therefore he was doing a “run for it”, he may not have taken the caravan…but would surely have packed his roof box ?
Did they find this roof box ?
OR was the roof box taken off that afternoon ?
Here are two excellent links regarding the truth (not the truth written by the “World’s Ministry of Truth”) but the logic and real (sad) truth.
What we are seeing right now, all those assassinations and secret service mess up, are part of a prelude of WW3. The same series of assassinations and retirements within the very same security services had happened prior to WW1 and even prior to WW2.
In fact, it is never a nation that makes war versus another nation. People don’t care about war. People, as long as they weren’t brainwashed by propaganda, hate war and violence. It’s some of the people behind our “elected” leaders who need war for their objectives of new world orders and due to financial and economic interests.
1. We know that our economic system, due to function e(x) for interests and particularly because of interests for interests, does need the reset button every 50-60 years. We can mathematically approve that. This is a law of mathematics. Time has come once again.
2. The finanical elite standing behind our “Leader” is seeking a new world order.
In fact, there will nations only fight “on the script” against each other.
In reality this will be a fight imperialists versus nationalist (world wide). The soldiers and people don’t know why they are fighting. They will be given a simple reason. One of those reasons is often used as “war on terror”, the other, previously reasons used are always “we fight for God (or truly said: For the property and wealth of our religion)” or else for the survival of our “race versus another other race/skin colour, you name it”.
In fact, this is a fight for money with money used to bribe leaders and parties. The parties aren’t yet clear. And of course they will change and update during a world war, given who gets bribed more money by our banks (FED, British banks). Leadership changes within a nation are easy and depend on money, particularly in Southern Europe (Italy, Spain, Greece) and in all Arab countries. The most easy ones to bribe with money are the Arabs. Whoever is being bribed into power will fight with “his nation” for the one side or else for the other side (see e.g. Italy in WW1 and WW2).
You might not know that Arafat and his PLO organisation were funded by Jews, one of them was Mr.Sharon who had to become silenced together with his economic bribery friend Mr. Arafat. Arafat was an easy guy when being bribed for terror.
OK, read that:
http://antimatrix.org/Convert/Books/Showdown_in_Jerusalem/Showdown_in_Jerusalem.html#Jewish_Financing_of_Nazi_Party
and finally, it’s best when you’re going to read all of it for the sake of truth and to understand about what’s currently going on in the USA and in the CIA in particular:
http://antimatrix.org/Convert/Books/Showdown_in_Jerusalem/Showdown_in_Jerusalem.html
Knowing that will make it much easier to understand the agenda of LaRouche, Patraeus, Kelley, Broadwell, Assad, Putin, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Israel, the Arab countries and in particular the banks, FED, and finally SAH.
James @ 1:33
I thought the rack was for the bikes (tandem)??
Didn’t think it was for a box.
But the missing part – at least to me- would be interesting to know where it is today??
James
We have only seen that roof rack for the bikes(wouldnt leave much of a sign on the roof) and not a box, but yes the roof being dirty doesnt rule them taking one out. The dusty/dirty air in summer gets forced between the box and the roof of the car. It should be cleaner the further back you go on the car roof. Running for it and taking 1 or 2 bikes doesnt seem to tally or with SAH’s bad back.
These days if you travel abroad do all children now need their own passport? If yes, then the Police would know there were 2 children as soon as they found the passports on the floor by SAH’s feet. Not the first place they would look/probably quicker for Insp Clouseau to find Zeena.
Shelock.
To be honest, I didn’t know what to make of it.
Had he driven through a bush ? Sprayed with mud ?
It was Strawberry’s post that hit me.
He wrote about his experience with a roof box. I’m awaiting his confirmation (or if anyone else has used on).
If that is the case, then SAH most likely carried a roof box.
The bike being attached to..or inside…the caravan.
BUT then why carry a roof box at all ? Can you not put clothes inside the caravan ?? Were they planning a trip without the caravan ? Was the roof box on the BMW that afternoon ? Where is the roof box now ?
Bluebird.
Very interesting. I’ll get to the links and have a read.
Didn’t know Arafat was funded by Sharon.
I’d have thought those two “gentlemen” wo have hated each other even if one wasn’t Jewish and the other in the PLO !
@ James
21 Nov, 2012 – 1:18 am I quite agree my time line is predicated on the truthfulness of witness statements.
If you have read my earlier contributions you will I hope I have seen I have tried to approach everything with a sceptical, critical eye and that I hope I am neither gullible, naive or biased. So if someone is either lying, as I think I have proved elsewhere, we need to look at things analytically. It is all down to the “known knowns” etc. such as the time it takes to cycle up the Combe, the approximate time of the shots (if they were the fatal ones but with no one else admitting shooting that day I think they were) the time the emergency services were called and the time they arrived). So I am happy for anyone to improve on my time line if they can. It’s not copyrighted!
The crucial bit of reasoning I think is that if the shots were correctly timed at about 3.30 (and that comes from three ppl at least) then Mollier must have been at the layby by then, as by expert opinion he was shot first. Apart from it ruling out the ridiculous story that the Al Hillis were at Droussard at 3.15, it means he must have started the hill climb no later than 3 pm. Now if as Martin claims he OVERTOOK him, it means that Martin started the climb BEFORE him and arrived only minutes after him – say 3.35/40. So why some reports, that I think you repeated, that he arrived at 4 pm?
Now as to the question you pose – why was Zeena not found until 12 pm it is answered in part by Maillaud’s initial statement – because they didn’t look inside the car till then unaware that another child was in the family. Well OK poor policing but he doesn’t really explain why they held back from entering the car for so long.
The answer can only be they were ordered from higher authority, not to. This could only be from Paris as the Annecy Prosecutor has considerable autonomy and power within his own “patch”. The reason ostensibly was to allow the Paris forensics to arrive. Somewhere I think I have seen Maillaud say they were there three hours prior to finding her. We do not know what happened overnight. Did the teams work through the night or call a halt until the morning? In any event bodies and vehicles were not removed until the next day.
So why the delay in finding Zeena? She remained silent and still? They did not know there were TWO daughters (hard to believe that one though it might have been true of the local police)? Poor policing? The operational decision to wait for daybreak/next day. The arrival of Paris forensics? An order not to enter car until they arrived? You decide.
If however French secret service WAS involved, it would all have the added advantage of delaying things sufficiently to allow the perpetrators to be well clear of the scene or even country wouldn’t it?
Shelock…
There you go. Read Strawberrys post above.
It seems so.
If you then look at pictures of the BMW in the carpark not the “mud” spray on top of the vehicle, then that fits in with waht Strawberry has experienced.
It would appear that there was a roof box fitted to that car.
As a roof box fits in the middle (width) of a car, then roof bars, othr than those fitted to a BMW touring would be required.
So why a roof box ? Was it fitted that afternoon ? Where is it now ?
Strawberry
Re passports. Everyone has to have one. I think even babies these days. But finding the passports may have happened the next day in daylight.
Never knew until Kenneth’s tip recently how to enlarge a photo using CTRL and tapping +
In post 1640 (page 82)on Icke
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221659&page=82
….WBM is walking to or from his BBC interview on 13th Sept. I have seen this photo in a report cut in 2 horizontally (cant remember where and not going to hunt right now) but didnt know why. Someone spoke about the blue plaster on his finger and also appears to have a dressing on his left hand. Odd that he still carries he 2 items with that hand. Strong suggestion he is left-handed?
In the Scotland Yard blog I remember repeating on here that he broke SAH’s drivers window by punching (not seen that anywhere else) and it doesnt make sense. Why not use an elbow (unless his elbow was bare he was cycling). Still more sensible to use a rock but perhaps BM wasnt Mr Cool. He may have been wanting to check SAH’s pulse, that makes far more sense that the ignition crap. To make sure he was dead?
For the first time I actually believe BM was there.
Straw, yes children need their own passports now…..as soon as they are born if they are to travel.
What I’d like to know is why would a British citizen have an Iraqi passport, even if he had two one would have thought Saad would use the British one to travel to France ?
Tim
I agree with you in part.
I may have put “4pm” but that was rounding the time up !
The pictures taken at 3.15pm ! We have no idea if the camera (or phone) recorded the time as UK, French or GMT time…or if the French police then “calculated” the time to “local” for there press release.
Also…and this is the key bit…it would appear that the “centre of excellence” in France for forensics are in Ecully, Lyon and not Paris. (INPS and ENFSI are there).
Given that this was a “massive” crime scene, then the Grenoble team (who arrived at 8pm) may not have been able to handle it.
Therefore would have called in “Lyon”, not “Paris”.
But even IF “Paris” were called in, then there is not one comment from journalist that were there on this arrival.
We ONLY have what Eric told the press as the reason to the wait.
If the little girl was found at the time that the scene was first discovered, then the “wait” for “Paris” to arrive would not be known. We would ASSUME that Grenoble began their forensic work at 8pm.
This in itself doesn’t make any difference. What time did they start work ? Who started work ? Who was lead ?
BUT what is significant is that the French authorities were told NOT to begin work UNTIL it had been looked over by a person or persons that could not arrive until Midnight.
That fact is “extraordinary”.
This is a massive case. To preserve the crime scene in the best possible way, would be THE FIRST thing they would want to do.
But they delayed this. From 8pm till Midnight, for 4 hours, nothing was done.
Do you not find that unusual ?
The photo I went to find was of the car and yes the roof is much dirtier than the bonnet!
A roof box would do that if it rained at all, would wash the bonnet and rest of the car but not the roof under the box.
You can clearly see 2 inches of shiny roof before the dirt that can only be caused by roof box, cant it?
@ Marlin
21 Nov, 2012 – 3:18 am yea I can live with that.tthanks for taking the trouble. The green 4×4 firmly reported by Martin as passing both up and down the Combe at different times MUST be implicated in the murder IF his word can be trusted. As i pointed out before however, highly suspicious he could remember so little about it esp. If we are agreed he is theRe as intelligence asset. also the French line confirming it WAS there but it had nothing to do with the murder and has been identified as forestry vehicle, is simply laughable and should be subject to searching press challenge. So why isn’t it? This case is simply CRAZY. The only explanation I can come up with for press impotence is that they have been “D’ed” or that in the midst of Leveson they are afraid to put a foot wrong.
My roof box experience is all summer driving using an old style Honda Accord when I was the family driver at least 6 holidays. Wasnt my car so I only got involved in removing the roof box for the last 3. I was surprised how much dirt got beneath it. The worst I remember was in Dorset near Abbotsbury in June and I love driving down the small country lanes and when they are dry and dirty the dust flies.