Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • Tim V

    “Great minds think alike” James @ James
    22 Nov, 2012 – 1:16 pm (mind you, “fools seldom differ”) I’ve only just got to this scrolling down and had posted my latest suggestion re roof dent before seeing yours. So it seems we concur! Its so difficult from distant photographs but damage there is and lever is an alternative to what i had assumed was bullet. I think I must have missed that alternative photo you refer to. You couldn’t post a ref. for it could you? Thanks, Tim.

  • straw44berry

    James

    I think you’re right its a leverage mark not from a bullet

    These boxes can hold 150 lb so there is the possibility of far more than papers up there, especially if someone thought it worthy to crow bar it off.

    The nearside front of the missing strut being ‘in the way’ does trouble me.

    The BMW already has side rails and the horizontal rails on that have been moved since 2011 and the tandem holiday.
    The offside side mirror no longer has the extra addition for towing a caravan.

  • Jon

    Hi all, sorry about the downtime on this thread. I’ll try to look at the bug properly over the weekend. Carry on!

  • Mochyn69

    Good point here by all.

    Might jemmying the roof rack or whatever was on it off also have caused the rear pax side window to have shattered completely.

    Someone way back, can’t remember who, also pointed out the clear patch on the rear door, where someone might have leaned against the door, either to fire at the passengers in the rear seats, or to lever the roof rack off.

    Very plausible.

  • Tim V

    Just a quick point on the photo at http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/faits-divers/20121121.OBS0072/tuerie-de-chevaline-une-nouvelle-piste.html

    Note what appear to be FOUR bullet marks to the windscreen. I know this isn’t anything very new but to me these approximate to shots directed at the retreating Al Hilli from a lateral position off the the near side of the car rather than full on frontal shots. Is this generally agreed? The three low “pings” as he crouches to get in the car; the high central one as he momentarily stands to get in?

  • Q

    Directed energy weapons date back to Tesla:

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7763298&mesg_id=7763703

    The electrical engineer John G. Trump mentioned as a US Defence researcher was Donald Trump’s uncle.

    “At the time of his death, Tesla had been working on the Teleforce weapon, or ‘death ray,’ that he had unsuccessfully marketed to the US War Department. It appears that Teleforce was related to his research into ball lightning and plasma, and was conceived as a particle beam weapon. The US government did not find a prototype of the device in the safe.”

    The wiki article has changed in the meantime.

    Bringing this over from Craig’s “Drone Murder” thread:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/82658_micro15.shtml

    Linked from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/natalie-khawam-clifford-krowne_n_2161685.html

    It is interesting that Indy Audio of Indianapolis has its offices in the Purdue Research Center, which also houses a small UAV (drone) manufacturer. Indianapolis also hosted a drone conference, sponsored by an organization based in the same building as Dion Longworth’s previous company, Stray Light Optical Technologies Inc.

    Donald Rumsfeld found here:

    http://rense.com/general40/secret.htm
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/82658_micro15.shtml http://eugen.leitl.org/tt/msg15123.html

    Former Rumsfeld staffer Kevin Kellems is now working at Stray Light Technologies Inc. in Indianapolis.

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kevin-kellems/a/315/680

    The brilliant minds of a new generation of electrical and mechanical engineers have taken the weapons race forward, without a doubt. Things certainly haven’t gone backwards.

  • bluebird

    Q

    I checked naval research lab (krowne) and purdue and there are hundreds of results on google where they worked on common projects and research. Naval research labs funds purdue university. Lots of common projects here.

  • straw44berry

    Thanks Jon for getting us going again

    Tim,
    Personally I think these 4 warning shots on the windscreen were at SAH sitting in the drivers seat the final one behind aimed at his head.
    Remember my recalling the ballistics expert on BBC on Day 1 (prob morning of 6th Sept) where he spoke about professional assassin knowing it wasnt worth shooting at the windscreen because of their unkown strength to the layman. This comment was out of place (I’m 90% sure, but cant be certain before this photo was taken) he knew then more than we have seen. Now I believe these were known to be warning shots only not expecting to penetrate and kill solely to obtain whatever SAH had and didnt want to give up.

    What are the strange marks on the bonnet?
    There appear to be 2 separate marks almost forming a T shape. It looks as though they made from the front and then the offside, using maybe a chain? Or am I looking at it wrong and its a dent perhaps where Rikki’s journo suggests Zainab was thrown onto.

  • straw44berry

    M69

    When removing the roof box normally resulted in any dirt on the car finishing up on my clothing. It involved a full stretch to reach on a large car (Honda Accord/BMW 3 series pretty similar)

  • Tim V

    Great detailed analysis Olifant
    22 Nov, 2012 – 1:36 PM. I have always accepted that any of the “actors” in this drama could either be lying, withholding the full truth, be mistaken, accurately remember some things or accurately remember everything. This is always the case isn’t it?

    Clearly many factors influence the reliability and credibility of witness reports. To this we add the truism that there are always at least three accounts: what everyone says, what the papers report and what really happened. The degree of sceptism be applied to witness statements is a value judgement based on circumstances. It is inversely proportional to the likely benefits of lying.

    So I would suggest that we can place greater reliance on the independent witnesses, such as Fillion-Robin and Thomas and others who heard shots and saw the white car retreating, than we necessarily can of Martin or Didierjean, both of whom are somewhat mysterious and implicated. PD perhaps more reliable than WBM? Even the police and prosecutor, if nothing else, from their own vacillation and contradiction, have earned little trust.

    I suppose I have used what we have by way of witness statement, merely to prove the problems with the official story. I think it is significant that no attempt has been made to correct or explain these glaring inconsistencies, which in my mind powerfully suggests collusion, conspiracy and state involvement.

  • Pink

    This was done on google translate so not exact ,I like the line at the end but I doubt that was what EM really said , he has managed to confuse us though 🙂

    Even if, for the general public, the survey seems to be sinking a hundred investigators (60 in France, 40 in England), still working on the case.

    “It is difficult to imagine the importance of this work in the shadows,” admits Eric Maillaud, which has agreed to lift the veil a little on the activities of investigators.

    “At the beginning of the survey, I had indicated that we are studying the CCTV cameras to reconstruct the path of al-Hilli … But this work was not limited to the camping trip Chevaline. Investigators reconstructed the family since his arrival at Calais to the crime scene, or 1000 km journey in six days. This represents thousands of hours of footage to watch. ”

    Another example, satellites “Requests were sent to all companies in the World to see if one of their flying machines Haute-Savoie at the time of the crime. We even asked the companies if their GPS vehicle equipped with cameras had been circulating around September 5. ”

    Comparisons were also made with all criminal cases solved or not identified in recent years, based on the munitions used and the particular procedure.

    A painstaking, unspectacular, but will perhaps one day confuse the killer …

    http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/11/22/deja-plusieurs-milliers-d-heures-de-travail

  • Mochyn69

    @Straw44berry
    23 Nov, 2012 – 3:14 pm

    I always wonder why bfmtv and other French media use that photo ‘Sur les lieux de la tuerie de Chevaline'(AFP), you know, the one with the parked gendarmerie vehicle, the bouquet of roses and a very prominent twig??

  • Q

    @Pink: What, no mention of forensic computer experts? No white-collar crime investigators at the companies where all concerned worked? How about examination of cell phone pings from towers in the area? Have they asked all the “forces” in the area if any mini-UAVs (helicopter type) were surveilling the area? Etc.

  • Mochyn69

    @Straw44berry
    23 Nov, 2012 – 3:48 pm

    Or a cryptic reference to Frédéric BRUN dit « BRINDILLE »(known as Twig)??

    And as it’s AFP was it taken by Philippe Desmazes?

  • Q

    You do know that news photographers sometimes stage photos for better impact? A twig on the ground, a shoe moved to the hood of a car at a traffic accident, that kind of thing. Sometimes the photographers arrive before the police.

  • bluebird

    straw

    Bluebird, Eric may want your help here:-

    +++++

    Either the French are complete idiots or they are a little bit slow at times. Or else the media believes that we are simply excited regarding their “news”. I mean, I would be pretty surprised if they didn’t already know about who Hashim al Hilli was and about all the other family connections. They have the advantage that they could interview all family members whenever they wanted. If I had that advantage to interview family members, I would already know all their family relations back until the 12th century. Particulary Muslims are excited about their detailed family trees because all of them want to prove one way or another that they are descendants of Mohammad or else perhaps descendants of one of the 12 Imams.

  • straw44berry

    Calais to the crime scene, or 1000 km journey in six days

    Is it 1000 km via Bordeaux? No thats 1577 km

    Is Calais 1000 km from Saint Jorioz? No 854 km Hmmm ?

    Did SAH drive from Calais to Saint Jorios avoiding tolls? 956 km (via Belgium, Luxembourg & Nancy)

    I am assuming toll booths have CCTV (I know in the US they do and you can get a speeding fine for being too quick)

  • Tim V

    What I think we can be fairly certain about:

    *murders took place at 3.30 (time shots heard)
    *al hillis got to martinet between 2.40 and 3.10
    *white peugeot 306 seen driving off from scene
    *3.48 someone made a call to emergency services or radio traffic overheard
    *the four identified ppl shot dead, seven year old girl injured and four year old rescued about eight hours after the shooting
    *emergency services arrived on scene some time between 4 and 4.20 and injured child removed to Grenoble
    *they took photos but did not open doors of car (on instructions not to?)

    NOT SO SURE ABOUT

    * WBM set off at 2.30
    * SM set off at 2.30
    * SM up Combe d’IRE 3 – 3.30
    * WBM up Combe d’Ire 3.15 – 3.45
    * Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM and SM on way up
    * Green 4×4 plus motor bike passes WBM on the way back
    * Who PD is, what he was doing there or what time he met WBM (some time between 3.48 and 4.10)
    * One or more killers
    * Who was behind it
    * Who carried it out
    * What was the reason

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