The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Straw
I read it was the drivers side front.
You say “a tyre other than the rear nearside”.
Now, on the French news, the (I drive on the left so I have to get my sides right here !) UK drivers side rear was indeed flat.
I think te news crews were on both sides of the road, hence the differing views.
And that the news reported (for what that is worth) that Sa’ad was pumping up the drivers side front.
Are you saying “other than” because you believe the nearside (pax side) rear was flat, because I don’t see the pax side, rear as being flat. Buried partly in he ground on the pictures, but inflated when on the flat bed (taking the view from other news crews onthat side of the road).
James for goodness sake just google it, there’s plenty of back up.
When we talk about a lefthand or a righthand drive car we don’t go on about semantics.
Ya missed the point again Kookie.
Shall I explain why it is relevant ?
Or let you wonder ???
Ever driven with an unbalanced wheel Kookie !
Kookie…
“we don’t go on about semantics”.
Yep, you said it !
we don’t bother with details. Not need ?
Hence why your theory has no evidence, no fact, no anything.
Just hearsay.
People read this. You do now that.
ahhhh !
It’s my keyboard. “now” is “know” !
Anyway Kookie, where’s the evidence ? The links ?
Christ we struggle…but you solved this case weeks ago ????
Your words, not mine.
Lol James you caught me, knew it was another but not rear nearside
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I was reading some old posts on MZT looking for links to Melvin the young MB rider and saw these two articles that dont agree .
If SM had taken the wrong route how would CS know where to go and look for him and which road was he supposed to be on ?
Perhaps the speeding vehicles I mentioned this morning were speeding because they were having to move to a new location having previously been told of his expected route .
Unless SM and SAH were communicating with each other how can they have arranged a meeting if SM was in wrong place, any thoughts ?
From France 3 Alpes, 23.10.2012
However, the Examining Magistrate gave new evidence concerning the circumstances of the cyclist’s ride along the forest road above Lake Annecy: it was the first time that this 45-year-old father, an employee of a subsidiary of the Areva nuclear group, was cycling in this place, on the road to the combe of Ire, in Chevaline. He came on the advice of his family. “He had taken the wrong road compared to the geographical information he had been given.”
So EM is saying we ruled out SM being the target because:
(a) It wasn’t a regular route.
(b) SM was only there by complete chance.
……………………
So what is the truth about cyclist Sylvain Mollier? He lived with his girlfriend Clare Schutz in Ugine (pop; 7,000), about 12 miles from Lake Annecy, and was on extended paternity leave after Miss Schutz, 29, a pharmacist, gave birth to their son, Louis, in June. Mr Mollier left his home for the last time around 2.30pm on September 5.
Much later that afternoon, when he did not return from his bike ride, Miss Schutz became worried. Eventually, she decided to get in her car to go and look for him.
Mr Mollier, 45, had told her where he was going, so she knew where to start her search. But her way was barred by a police road block near the bottom of the Route de la Combe d’Ire, leading up the mountainside, a route popular with hikers and cyclists.
Miss Schutz told the police she was very concerned about Mr Mollier; that he had not come home when she had expected and had not rung her.
Miss Schutz was asked to get a photograph of Mr Mollier and bring it to the police station. When she produced a photograph, her worst fears were confirmed. Like many people, Mr Mollier’s private life was not entirely uncomplicated.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225436/The-man-whos-key-Alps-massacre-Mail-investigation-uncovers-vital-new-evidence-execution-British-family-thats-baffling-police.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Mochyn69
30 Nov, 2012 – 3:21 pm and James think we might both be on the side of the gods!!!!
I havent heard of ‘wrong route’ before but it was a ‘new route’. Someone posted the route was suggested by CS’s father though I havent read that anywhere myself.
Haven’t they found a patsy yet? No doubt one will be found. It’s dropped right out of the news, hasn’t it? Any gossip from the Iraqi ex-pat community? What a strange case. A pity Sherlock Holmes, Sexton Blake or Monsieur Poirot aren’t around.
This link to a new interview with prosecutor EM is from MZT. It is in French and he does not say much new, except that SM was not an intended target, and that the weapon used is not that rare on the Swiss side of the border. He again makes the point that at this stage he is not directly involved in the investigation, more a spokesman for what the judges who are supervising a large team of investigators tell him.
http://www.lasavoie.fr/Actualite/Albertville/2012/11/29/article_drame_de_chevaline_la_realite_depasse_l.shtml
Rich supply of finds on searching google.ir for سعد آل الحلي
لماذا قتل سعد الحلي؟ بقلم : حسين الحلي
Who killed Saad al Hilli by Hussein al Hilli (Article previously noted, ?Canadian cousin journalist)
Saad supports Hezbollah, Palestine V strong critic of US, Israel, Jews Iran not problem Critic of Iraqi PM wont keep views private planned bring secrets to Iraq Mossad suspected ?involved
http://translate.google.com.iq/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saotaliassar.org%2FFrei%2520Kitabat%2F16102012%2FHusseinAlHelly01.htm
المنتديات العربية قادت الموساد لاغتيال عائلة “سعد الحلي” في فرنساArab forums led Mossad to assassinate family “Saad al Hilli” in France
he believed that there is no place for Israelis and Jews in Palestine
Palm – 09/24/2012
http://www.shatnews.com/index.php?show=news&action=article&id=2241
@Suhayl
I’d settle for Captain Laure Berthaud & Judge François Roban from “Spiral” (Engrenages).
Interestingly one of the themes that runs through that programme is corruption in high places and interference from politicians in the French justice system.
“Rashomon” over at MZT has come up with an interesting new angle:
That the killer(s) was/were looking out for a “target” described to them as a cyclist plus a car driven by a man with two adult female passengers
Now who else fitting that description was around in the same place at the same time? WBM + PD & 2 female passengers.
At the very least an odd coincidence that I had not considered before…
times was first Mochyn69
30 Nov, 2012 – 4:43 pm but they’re all travelling in that direction. makin it increasingly difficult for us troublemakers
Hi Olifant..Thank you.I ran article thru google..(replace ornaments.and costume..lol….with Al-hillis)..
Thank you for that..It refers to what Gary Akad said..who we havent heard from lately…but interestingly not one official has confirmed that Saad had any such banter on his computer..or that he intended to supply information from the Allies/Axis powers (indulge me) to anyone in the middle east. Based on the phony wills claimed to have been found I would say his trip part vacation and part financial. Why he would need phony wills is beyond me unless he got them from someone at his meeting paid then was killed.. buying new identity. that could be why he took wife and mother to look at the id..to see if ok….speculative because once tagged by m16 that is it..hard to hide a family like that
Still I haven’t seen evidence of any rants other than his “friend” Gary say so..that they were even friends for 20 years..except an old foto.submitted by Gary…none of other current people saying yeah..Thats Saads Homey! His Shadow twin..They got along famously…
..I see him visit all the time..
They cant produce any imo because it would show he was NOT a radicalized UK citizen..
http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=ar|en&twu=1&u=http://www.shatnews.com/index.php%3Fshow%3Dnews%26action%3Darticle%26id%3D2241
A British origin and nationality “Gary certainly -52 years -” the Israeli Mossad of being behind the assassination, which killed British flight engineer Iraqi Saad ornaments -50 years – and his dentist wife, “Iqbal -47 years -” and her mother Suhaila al-Saffar -74 years.
And being questioned Gary, who was a friend of Costume for nearly twenty years, by two British police officers about the new evidence which he said that the Arab chat rooms and messages sent by the ornaments to Arab forums led Mossad to assassinate him.
Adds Gary told the Daily Mirror, the ornaments was spend hours on the computer in chat rooms Arab attacking Israelis and Jews in America, as he was talking about Iraq and the Arab-Israeli conflict and it was believed that there is no place for Israelis and Jews in Palestine, according to the newspaper.
Gary says messages sent by the ornaments into the forums shows how Arab hatred of Israelis, stressing that the jewelry was not a member of any fundamentalist group, and ornaments fell victim undercover agents working for the Israeli Mossad according to the newspaper.
Gary concluded that the information in his possession had been submitted to the British police to help them track down the killers of his friend, who was a good sense of humor and love of life, according to the newspaper.
Mentioned that ornaments lives in a suburb of London since 1970, and holds an engineering degree in aviation and has highly experienced in software because of his work in a company for satellites, found him French police on the fifth of Sept. He has a bullet to the head when the steering wheel , as police also found his wife and her mother in the back seats are dead, shot in the head, while his daughter was found hiding for long hours between her mother’s legs and was in possession of the family at the crime scene passports, one Swedish and one Iraqi.
unquote
“He could have swapped them around, but on the French TV coverge, they showed the BMW being recoverd…and it was the drivers side rear tyre that looked to be flat.”
Well if it was flat it couldn’t have had anything concealed in it and wouldn’t the French police have found it by now?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/36176/foot-pumps-tested
If EM wants us to think SM is not a target he would say that wouldn’t he Pink
30 Nov, 2012 – 7:47 pm? Like a lot of things he says, one gets the impression the facts are made to fit the story rather than vice versa as it should be. The fact that his new partner went straight to Combe d’Ire rather than a multitude of other options, speaks volumes doesn’t it? He must have told her where he was going and even more than this – if he had intended a circular route she wouldn’t have bothered going up there. Why? Because after Martinet, cars were prevented from going further. So it’s odds on that she also knew Martinet was the intended destination. Remember he had left the house at 2.30 and she must have arrived at the road block several hours later. The only weakness in this line of thinking would be if she had learned on local news of a comotion at Combe d’Ire in case it was her partner?
Mochyn69
30 Nov, 2012 – 3:21 pm
Well said.
@ olifant 30 Nov, 2012 – 10:56 pm
“Rich supply of finds on searching google.ir for سعد آل الحلي
لماذا قتل سعد الحلي؟ بقلم : حسين ا
Who killed Saad al Hilli by Hussein al Hilli (Article previously noted, ?Canadian cousin journalist)
Saad supports Hezbollah, Palestine V strong critic of US, Israel, Jews Iran not problem Critic of Iraqi PM wont keep views private planned bring secrets to Iraq Mossad suspected ?involved
http://translate.google.com.iq/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saotaliassar.org%2FFrei%2520Kitabat%2F16102012%2FHusseinAlHelly01.htm
المنتديات العربية قادت الموساد لاغتيال عائلة “سعد الحلي” في فرنساArab forums led Mossad to assassinate family “Saad al Hilli” in France
he believed that there is no place for Israelis and Jews in Palestine
Palm – 09/24/2012
http://www.shatnews.com/index.php?show=news&action=article&id=2241
Good links, especially the first one from the al-Hilli relative in Canada. That is convincing to me, that SAH was against Israel and US in Middle East. More so than Gary Aked’s statement – which he was paid for by the press – and which I thought might be put out as disinfo on behalf of ??
Yet, as @Sys says, there’s still the question, if SAH was chatting in open Arab forums why are no examples presented? Remember, when Bradley Manning was chatting on AOL IM, we were treated to long sections (not complete) of the so-called “chat logs”.
Interesting Bleb I had wondered about that ,the timings seem to be that tight that PD and co were only minutes from being there as well,one thing that would be good to do is drive it by GPS and see what route that uses ,I have heard another road mentioned that does not show up on the map “ancient”or something like that it could be that GPS didn’t pick up that road and was sending them to the dead end road ,it was said recently that SM had GPS on the bike and SAH would likely use GPS in a strange area ,need a local to go and check out these roads .
On the other hand BM knew where he was going so its safe to assume he was in the right place and also PD gives the impression he and friends had a plan was it to go hiking or something so they were in the right place ,why one would start hiking that late in the day is a bit odd if that’s what it was I haven’t checked.
Both SM and SAH could be on the wrong road, if that’s so and they were the targets then a hasty rejig by the attacker/s is possible, if BM and PD were the targets it could be mistaken identity .
PD and SM could have been meeting , SM rings PD and says where are you I am in the car park and PD says hang on I will find you and so arrives a little late ,if both SM and SAH had taken a wrong road then that would explain them having a chat at the map and being mistaken for the targets.
All of the people involved except Saad have been off limits for info PD and his two companions who were they ,Saads two women have been kept quiet about ,and even in the Brun case there were two other people involved who were not named as far as I know .
Are there any locals reading here who could fill us in on some of this or the local gossip ?
Of all the information released about this case the Philippe D +2 women is the most laughable. BM never mentioned them at all. Then suddenly they expect us to believe they were so central to the discovery of the scene, that we are supposed to accept their omission from BMs statements and interview.
Then because Philippe Desmazes was so active taking early photographs on the 5th September that when we suggested Philippe D and Philippe Desmazes must be one and the same. Hey presto, now Philippe D becomes Philippe Didierjean.
Is he fearing for his life, and that is why no photographs or full details of him has ever been released?
The 2 shadows sorry women were never even given ages or any information released to suggest they ever existed.
BOTTOM LINE : IGNORE AS BO****KS
Strawberry the quietness early on about PD and companions could also mean he was flagged for some reason as an interested party so they kept him under wraps while they checked it is a murder inquiry they have to do their job not keep us updated ,EM has said in a recent interview he has been surprised at the interest in this case I assume most crimes get a passing headline and are soon replaced with something else .
From our point of view its worth getting hold of as much information as we can on all the people around the crime scene and the delay in mentioning PD and friends could point to something to find.
Despite everything written here about Saad and his background the feeling I get is that they were a nice family getting on with life as best they can ,I think Katie has a point that Saad was showing signs of stress maybe that is why gran had come to stay she has dealt with difficult mental health issues maybe her daughter wanted a little advice .
My guess is that the death of the father has thrown up pressures ,things have a habit of mounting up sometimes when you feel least able to deal with it maybe grans advice was lets get this sorted out and take the pressure off.
Did that contribute to what happened in France maybe it did nothing had happened to him before he did something .
The only odd thing I see in it all is the fact they went to that lay-by at all ,that is what I flag as out of place what got them there ,if that could be explained by faulty directions on the GPS
then maybe the crime could be totally local related .
I had better add that if Saad is related to the crime then everything he did becomes suspicious and in that case I think the stop to take pictures also becomes suspicious and the location of that becomes important.