The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Katie
2 Dec, 2012 – 7:45 pm the only reason PARIS would have reacted so quickly is that they were prepared. That they had a contingency plan. And obviously SAH, SM, WBM or even PD might not have been, indeed is unlikely to have been, the source of the original alarm call.
Thanks for the video James very helpful I am being distracted now watching videos on the pro’s and con’s of various beacons its so easy to go off piste on the net 🙂
Pink
LOL ! I am a documentary about “crack in the US” !
Jeez they are “screwed” !
300 million people….200 million of them are crackers !
The crazy, crazy world of the web !
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/02/pentagon-double-spy-network-cia
“The DIA’s new recruits would include military attachés and others who do not work undercover. But US officials told the Post that the growth will be driven a new generation of spies who will take their orders from the Department of Defense.
The DIA is increasingly recruiting civilians to fill out its ranks as it looks to place agents as academics and business executives in militarily sensitive positions overseas.
Officials said the sheer number of agents that the DIA is looking to recruit presents its own challenge as the agency may struggle to find enough overseas vacancies for its clandestine agents.”
With how this board has gone today, the Oscar winning script writers took over last night from the students in the official FAIRYTALE and we are going round in circles.
Kevin Kellems and Christopher Hitchens:
http://jcdurbant.wordpress.com/category/irak/
The point you make Pink
2 Dec, 2012 – 7:48 pm is an significant one. If any of the victims dis as Katie suggests, raise the alarm, it could not be later than the time they died. If the sound of shots is correctly stated to be 3.30 this is the very latest time the call could be made by them. So if the official version of 3.48 is correct (leaving aside the matter of who actually made it) the four (six) victims are ruled out.
*delete “dis” If any of the victims or WBM raised the alarm it means more lies from the prosecutors.
Tim you are doing it again confusing the two.
I am not talking about the emergency call.
I am talking about a private call by AH to Paris, nothing to do with calling the police/ambulance, but a completely separate call to his ‘people’……
@ bluebird 2 Dec, 2012 – 5:08 pm
“@Tim”
“Your sunday times link unfortunately isnt accessable. They want us to pay 4 pounds for reading that. Could you please tell us what his friend had said?”
The link I provided to the UK Times piece was on provided by Peter at MZT. Apparently the Times gives out a “share token” that you can give to friends. Don’t know if it’s time limited or by the number of people who use it. I didn’t copy text, but somebody up above had relevant part about SAH enabling tracking.
The point others made as to why friend was alarmed when car didn’t move for some hours – maybe they noticed it was well after dark and wondered why SAHs would still be up at Martinet.
The other things I remember are that they still do not raise a question re reliability of BM’s story and are back to saying SM was a lowly production worked at Cezus – implying he’d have no secrets – which as I’ve mentioned many times is untrue. Low level workers can know secret production techniques or have ability to filch secrets.
Another interesting thing is that some phrases in the Times piece are taken word-for-word from questions raised at CM or MZT, so the press is following along.
And the reason for “calling his people in Paris” whilst under fire ?
I think this blog is straying into fantasy without evidence.
We need the “old timers” more active again, or it’ll just become a joke.
I know very little about these things so correct me if I’m wrong but every system differs and this can be significant to the actual case. Sending an alarm on 121.5 or 404 mHz must be ACTIVATED before it can be located and supply the necessary info. So dependent on the time required for it to be picked up, dependent on the type of satellite system being utilized, it hypothetically COULD explain the emergency services being alerted. Problems: Millaud has not claimed this was the method, nor WBM the only person available if it was 3.48. If it was any of the victims it would have had to have been before 3.30. Even if either of these had happened it is doubtful the satellite system could raised the alarm in the availble time frame. Nor would the first point of reference have been Paris – it would have been local rescue. Why would Paris be notified initially? The alarm would only provide info on the holder and location and need for help, not presumably the detailed circumstances. Nor would as far as I can see, provide information on location, UNLESS it was activated. In other words it cannot explain how anyone (including the killers) where he was. This system must be distinguished from that by which his friends got concerned by the lack of movement on the back of mobile phones and triangulation from transmit presumably? However if it flagged up stationary at Martinet, doesn’t this conflict with what from the evidence, was lack of reception there?
Tim V
2 Dec, 2012 – 9:59 pm “AH” = SAH? “His people in Paris”? And how do you propose a man under attack could place a call and have a conversation? An it was YOU who suggested the 007 watch i’e. satellite alarm.
Did AH send some photos to those friends , I know a camera was found but maybe some photos were taken by one of the mobile phones which had geo tagging enabled, they then called back but could not get a reply ?
that one was meant for Katie
2 Dec, 2012 – 9:16 pm not me!!!!
Tim
You basically need to write in paragraphs or at least in “points”.
And you make differing points !
Firstly, my explanation re 121.5 is in answer to some crazy person saying “James Bond” is real !!!
Secondly, IF a distress signal would have been sent via this system, it would not go to “Paris”.
I never indicated that would be the case. Others do !!!!
Thirdly, the time of 15.30 (gunshots) is from witness statements then reported in the media. I have no idea how correct they are.
And G !
I am not suggesting that a 121.5MHz or 406MHz was made (404MHz ??? is that a test ? You keep making “odd” mistakes in your posts. Why is that ?) I am merely saying that IF a “distress” was made (activated) then SAR SOP’s would take place, that being Fire and Rescue.
Can I ask, you once called P.D. “Pierre”. Yet you would have read his name whilst making your research. Why did you post “Pierre” ?
That’s a couple of “clear” mistakes you’ve made ?
You’re also discounting the 15.38 call (which is fine to do so) but constantly pushing the 15.30 gunshot reports (by witnesses that we know little about). Please explain.
It strikes me there’s a lot of confusion here.
When I mentioned Paris 2 days ago the whole conversation has morphed into a completely different one.
I shall spell it out again:
All I said was that Saad could well have had a satellite phone.
He could have been there on a mission… known to the embassy.
When the shooting started he or one of the women alerted PARIS on a known emergency number allocated for such an event, they DIDN’T HAVE TO SPEAK because it was known where he was & what he was doing …….. hence the issue of 20 ‘military types’ who were at the scene pretty damn quick , which I gather is not normal.
NR
2 Dec, 2012 – 9:45 pm that’s reassuring about the press NR. As far as I know none of them have used the logic here to challenge the authorities yet with some incisive questions but we mustn’t give up hope. They are natural Jackdaws. What we need are some plucky Robins not to mention some inquisitive terriers. I’m sorry I can’t tell you what was in the Sunday Times article as I only buy the old week paper version. The Rotherham case has made adoption newsworthy again that may help the Al Hilli children. I certainly hope spook considerations aren’t replacing the primacy of child welfare though I suppose given the nature of events, their safety must come first.
“Did AH send some photos to those friends”
Another unbelievable statement by Kookie !!!!
Yes he did !!! No he didn’t !!!!
It hasn’t been reported either way.
No one known to him has confirmed he did or did not.
What on earth is it to do with anything.
Do you just get short of things to say, then “pile in” with an absolute bizarre post !!!
@ Katie 2 Dec, 2012 – 11:34 am
“Thank goodness things are changing & for investigative journalism ….. may Leveson not damage it !”
They need to do something to prevent media from arbitrarily naming common citizens (not the Lords & Ladies and the establishment, who can well defend themselves, as exemplified by Lord X, whose name we not dare even hint at, or our friend NA) as suspects on the flimsiest evidence or rumor, then launch one of their “Help Us Catch the Fiend” headlines.
Another error by you Tim, no it was NOT me who mentioned a 007 watch.
NR, no doubt about it there have been gross invasions of privacy & libelous naming of innocents. But the law is there for that & it works.
Without a free press we would never have heard of the MP expenses,Saville & many other things exposed by journalists, with government intervention much would be covered up.
“Another error by you Tim, no it was NOT me who mentioned a 007 watch”
I mean Kookie is mad…BUT she’s got you thee “Tim V”
That’s THREE “errors” in not so many posts !!!
Why is that ?
Breitling have had a 121.5MHz sending watch for many years.
I wear one and alot of other guys do.
So it’s not really “007”, it’s real world.
Third mistake Tim ! Why are you pushing “mistakes” ?
James what part of , ‘ taken by one of the mobile phones which had geo tagging enabled,’ didn’t you understand you plonker ?
Geez it’s like trying to have a conversation with a roomful of geriatrics, I’m off ………Good Night !
Pierre Didierjean
404MHz
007 watch
What are you selling Tim V ?
@ James 2 Dec, 2012 – 1:08 pm
“Tim V: You’ll find there is some debate about the Philippe Desmazes photograph in Libya.”
I’m just conjecturing here, but what with copyright laws in various countries, and how news agencies like AFP work, and the pressure to publish on 15 minute deadlines on the web, it’s possible that pics and stories attributed to Philippe Desmazes are not actually his.
He may have his own stringer reporter/photogs and he buys their material outright, as a “work for hire” and resells it to AFP with his or AFP’s copyright on it.
In the Gareth Williams case, there was one photog who had pics inside the flat after police left, and most he’d apparently sold outright, but two of them had his own copyright in the image area.
In the Middle East there’s always trouble with verifying the authenticity of pics and vids. Shopped pics to enhance bomb smoke and craters, etc. It’s about who has the best dead-baby / grieving relatives the fastest. In the latest Gaza war CNN was caught out using vids from a previous war. Shocking!
Kookie…
Yep, you’re right. Geo Tagging. Yep, that’ll do it.
I guess I do call you Kookie for a reason !
NR.
Yep. Totally correct.
Why let “copyright” get in the way of a good picture !
( http://www.techdirt.com/blog/%E2%80%9Dhttp:/?tag=philippe+desmazes )
The link goes in to “the photo grab”.
James
2 Dec, 2012 – 10:25 pm sorry James just a combination of my poor eyesight, the semi darkness, fat fingers and not checking before sending – oh and amnesia! I MEANT 401 and I MEANT Philippe. No excuse I know but its the thrust of the argument that hopefully gets through. Now to get my own back (ha ha) you refer to the 3.38 phone call when presumably you mean 3.48?????????????? Even the best of us make typo’s it would seem.
Now my comments weren’t meant to challenge anything you said. If anything they were intended to point out the flaws in Katie’s “007” watch idea to explain the arrival of the emergency services, via Paris apparently! Even when America was under attack on 9/11 it took longer than half an hour to get the rescue operation into gear! I don’t believe an emergency signaller of the type discussed, be it either 121.5 or 401 fits because of time delay and nature of response, as it could not have supplied sufficient information being limited to possible identity and location.
If Katie is right and it was used by SAH or SM then it would have been before 3.30 not 3.48. I think the 3 witnesses appear kosher and concur on the time they heard shots. Of course that is different from proving the shots were the fatal ones but it also ties in with WBM’s stated time of arrival (ish) i.e. BEFORE 3.45 at the LATEST.
So to summarise, by whatever route the emergency services received the information, they had sufficient DETAIL to send at least SIX vehicles initially covering all aspect including a doctor. If we can believe WBM they must have all got the information about the same time as they arrived almost simulanaeously, rescue service first, followed by ambulance/doctor followed by police. The time they arrived was determined by speed and distance and as they arrived soon after four, the emergency call certainly could not have been LATER than 3.48.
The fact that it is apparent EM or police were immediately under the orders of Paris officials can only be explained in my mind by pre-knowledge and pre-planning though I realise this is controversial, cannot be proved without inside information and would probably be strenuously denied.
p.s. I hope typo’s are few and far between in this one! Please forgive if there are.