The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Kenneth,
re: origins of English (OT)
I’d hardly call that a “sensational claim”.
Fairly obvious and already widely accepted that English is a mix of Anglo-Saxon, Old Danish and Norman French with a bit of Celtic thrown in.
Next you’ll be telling us about the Norman origins of words for animals as food (eg: beef, mutton) and the Anglo-Saxon origins of words for the same animals in the field (eg: cow, sheep) – reflecting the masters at the feast and the conquered peasants in the field.
Background to Serbia assassination record:
“The former communist regime in Yugoslavia had a history of assassinations directed against its opponents. It has been claimed that between 1946 and 1991 the Yugoslav Secret Service (UDBA) had carried out at least 150 assassination attempts against people living outside Yugoslavia. The victims were mostly Croatian émigrés, although others were targeted.[18] The attacks were usually carried out by small teams consisting of a trigger-man supported by a spotter and were always carefully planned.[18] The attacks were often made as targets entered or left their homes since this was the point at which they were most vulnerable and where a case of mistaken identity was least likely.[18]
The last known UDBA hit in the UK took place on 20 October 1988 when Nikola Štedul, a 51-year-old Croatian émigré, was gunned down outside his home in Kirkcaldy. For various reasons, the attack did not go smoothly. Stedul survived it, although he was severely wounded in the head. His assailant was arrested a few hours later at Heathrow airport and identified as one Vinko Sindičić—a Yugoslav known to Western intelligence services.[19]
Bob Woffinden, a journalist who specialises in miscarriages of justice has stated “Claims of responsibility are made by groups such as the IRA or ETA. In 60 years, there has not once been a claim of responsibility for an assassination carried out by East European secret services.” Woffinden advanced the view that a Yugoslav group was behind the Dando killing and in various newspaper articles he contested all the grounds on which the police had dismissed this possibility.[20][21]
Discredited links with Yugoslavia include the case in which a West Midlands petty criminal of Serbian descent was said to have boasted of the killing in a bar in Belgrade in September 2001. A jailed former cargo aircraft captain as well as two other witnesses stated they were present in the bar at the time of the alleged confession.[22][23]
Slavko Ćuruvija (a Serb journalist and critic of the then Yugoslav government) was shot in the head outside his Belgrade home just 5 days before the killing of Dando. In March 2012, his widow Branka Prpa claimed that both her late husband and Dando were ‘executed’ by a Serbian hitman in revenge attacks.[24]” WIKI
BB, I had watched the videos before, which is how I came to the conclusion there was no box……. I will conceded that… IF… the were a box,that mark could be from gunshots used to smash a centre lock… IF… there had been a box, but I just can’t see how the dust would look so untouched had something been removed.
A box would be heavy otherwise what’s the point & would have to be lifted over that broken end, the girl makes it look easy because se places an empty bag.
BlacknBlue.
I’m honestly not in agreement or disagreement with Kooks.
Merely I am trying to find “likely” answers that are consistent with what can be seen from the pictures that have been released.
I am not forwarding “this is what happened”.
Nor any “he did this” then “she did that” and “he must have said such and such to whoever”. That is ridiculous.
The facts are….
There is “dirt” on the roof of the BMW.
There was a “roof rack” on that BMW.
One rail of the “roof rack” was broken.
The “press”, having also viewed those pics, have not mentioned it.
The investigation team (F and/or GB) have not mentioned it.
There is “confusion” over timings presented by the “star witness”.
Those are facts. They cannot be disputed.
If “we” (or some of us) roll the dice (singular !) logically, what is/are the natural conclusions (assumptions) ?
James
12 Dec, 2012 – 1:48 am – I agree with you that the missing element of the left hand/passenger/near side bike rack is highly suspicious including as you say, the fact that the Prosecutor/Police haven’t commented on it at all. Either, I have concluded, they are completely incompetent or ominously secretive, even complicit! I have no opinion on the weight that can be placed on the grimy roof in stark contrast to the shiny bonnet. It could I suppose point to the presence of a roof box – thus preventing cleaning – or it may just conceivably be the result of fine debris thrown up by the reverse spinning rear wheels. (Similar light coloured mud/dust soils the body panel ahead of the nearside rear wheel you will notice) I just wouldn’t like to say on the basis of the only evidence we have to go on – the DM photo.
Earlier on I floated the idea that SAH might have removed the bicycle rack himself to fit a roof box but this is hardly convincing either. Why (and you see I am arguing against my own idea here)? Because as a fastidious man (we can deduce this from what we see of his car and camping gear not to mention his scientific background) I think it it is highly unlikely he would have left the front bracket still attached, or for that matter caused or accepted the damaged roof. Alternatively the possibility that a bicycled was removed from there and ridden off but this is contra-indicated by why the need to take the rack itself?
So then here is my LATEST IDEA. “HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!” It came to me last night at about three o’clock as the issue was going around in my head. WHAT IF….it is not what was ON ON ON the rack, but what was IN IN INSIDE it?!!!!!!!!!!!! What if known to the killers, the hollow rack itself was being used to carry/conceal the sought items it was worth killing everyone for? It could have been valuable items such as diamond, drugs (unlikely – not enough quantity), metals or information on memory sticks. It may seem far-fetched but it might explain why only the bike rack itself has been taken (forceably at speed) rather than anything on it. What do you think?
I haven’t seen this idea suggested before so remember “YOU SAW IT HERE FIRST!” lol
OK BB
I’ve watched 2 vids so far and my thought is…..
The bike on the transporter in front of the BMW doesnt have its front wheel in position, does it?
From the other side of the transporter you cant even see the bike.
They wouldnt take SMs bike apart to transport it, surely?
Thanks for the vids
Err Tim, a fastidious man , AH ?
I suggest you whiz over to his house & take a look at that fastidious man’s untidiness, the garden looks like Paddy’s market, the garage paint all peeling off,not to mention all the lean to sheds.
This man didn’t give a hoot about appearances !
INSIDE the tube/rack ?
Tim that’s where we started, hardly a brilliant deduction, that was the most obvious of all !
Clever Bluebird
12 Dec, 2012 – 1:25 pm. If only we were all blessed with your ability. I think I might have over-reached myself with my idea above which would obviously require a HOLLOW rack. Tell us please BB is there such a thing? If not we have to go back to the drawing board asking the pertinent question: “Why would desperate assassins, short of time, wish to spend some of it prizing off a Thule bike rack and presumably taking it with them, before setting off?”
I am not sure what I think !
Firstly, the rails look to be bike carrier ones.
And of the “fork” variety.
I would be pretty much 100% on that one.
Secondly, if that is the case, what made the marks on the roof ?
Thirdly, how did that rail break ?
A thought previously was that the car came “through” the forest !
Hence the marks on the roof and broken rail.
And why the investigation team uses the term “stuck” and not “hit” when refering to it being at the bank.
However, even I feel that explanation is highly unlikely, if not completely impossible.
There may have been a bike onboard the BMW. That bike “may” be the one held on the transporter in front of the BMW (and not SM’s bike).
But then how was SM’s bike moved ? In a police van ?
So why (if) was Sa’ad carring a bike ?
Of course there may have been no bike or box on the roof.
If that was indeed the case, then how did the rail get broken ? How was it broken ?
And importantly, why has the roof got dirt on it ???
Back to Square One !
For Tim.
The “dirt” shows an airstream pattern consistent with a frontal persistent airflow.
How tall was Sa’ad ?
He (or his daughter) may have washed the car…and missed the roof ?
That dirt may be consistent with a long drive at that time of year, through Southern England and Northern France to the South (ish) of France ?
James
Probably most of the dust would be to-ing and fro-ing on the dusty roads in the campsites.
Straw.
That’s a lot of dust/dirt for just running about.
The dirt/dust is “only” on the roof.
He must have washed the car whilst in France and after their journey. But missed the roof.
That is the only “likely” possibility I can see.
If that is the case, then it still leaves the broken roof rail.
Did he lose a bike on en route…and then just didn’t bother removing the only clamp that remained ???? (the forward part)
@ Katie 12 Dec, 2012 – 2:46 pm
Err Tim, a fastidious man , AH ?
“I suggest you whiz over to his house & take a look at that fastidious man’s untidiness, the garden looks like Paddy’s market, the garage paint all peeling off,not to mention all the lean to sheds. This man didn’t give a hoot about appearances !”
And loose tiles that had come off are left lying on the home’s roof. Yet the unfastidious man had several sets of green, blue and brown dust/trash/rubbish bins on the property.
However, it’s not uncommon for people to be fastidious in one aspect of their lives and incredibly sloppy in others; a sparkling home interior and a decrepit exterior or the reverse.
I don’t think SAH was that fastidious about cars even though he enjoyed repairing/restoring them. In the driveway at Claygate are many oil stains. [Those stains create interesting illusions – a bunny rabbit was one I saw. No Jesus or Fatima.]
Way back, people mentioned the strange lack of toys in the yards, though maybe they’d cleaned those up as they were leaving on vacation.
It struck me again how odd the police search at Claygate was. Drilling holes and inserting video camera. A line of police doing a finger-tip search under the shrubbery. They weren’t looking for the murder weapon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=AvZ8bC3bQj0&NR=1
Bluebird
12 Dec, 2012 – 1:36 pm you say: “Perhaps somebody took that bike from that roof with force simply to pretend that he were an accidentally passing by cyclist? That would make that story look completely different then, would it?”
It was a point I was making (perhaps more obliquely) earlier. There appears to be absolutely no corroborative evidence for WBM’s bike ride (unlike SM who at least has his partner’s word) though your suggestion that he was carrying his bike when he met PD is new to me. Where did you see that?
Many of these points could be settled by the recovered Zainab. Who is acting as the two sister’s guardians and protecting them from undue influence?
That’s some Court Order ! Almost “witness protection”.
How would a Judge decide the best course of action.
Clearly “medical” would obviously be a concern.
But “local” family would also be a part of the welfare.
Not in this case.
The (or those) Swiss accounts play(s) apart in this case.
As does the broken roof rack.
I agree with all you say NR.
Frankly I thought it odd that Police had the licence to crawl all over a man’s house , rifle through his belongings & generally invade the families privacy … when he was not a criminal, on what grounds did they do that, was it in fact legal ?
It led me to believe they knew something we didn’t or AH had been ‘fingered’ by someone or the French wanted him to be guilty of something to give them a motive. The middle scenario here fits my theory of Mr X.
In any event it all felt wrong…as does the fact Zeena & Zainab have not been released !
Hi all
A beady eye cast over these threads show that a few people are still persisting in the most pointless form of bickering. I think the main protagonists, who are convinced that other people here are shills/derailers for whichever group is thought to have carried out the hit, have said this enough now.
So, any posts that are substantively made for the purpose of insulting and/or accusations of derailing will be deleted, as and when I see them. So, if you don’t want to be deleted, please stick to theories. If the topic is slowing down because no new evidence is coming to light, so be it – don’t post just for the sake of it!
Deleted two of today’s posts from James just now, plus eight from yesterday.
On the matter of the two surviving girls. Presumably in England the courts & social services are mandated to do what’s in the best interests of the children.
1. The police need to protect them from possible retribution by the killer(s), who fear identification, or the killer(s) employers.
2. The SIS might not want them blabbing about what was really going on. Young children could at least be somewhat aware of what their parents or other relatives were up to. Who visited the home. What daddy worked on in his sheds.
3. They are heirs to an impossibly complicated estate, which in the end may be worth nothing, or several million pounds, or even much more. Unless it involves more than a few millions of pounds it’s likely to be eaten up entirely by barristers and solicitors.
4. On the money side, the courts would need first appoint a guardian and conservator for them – either a relative or someone independent.
5. They presumably inherit from their parents. Who inherits from grandma, and how much money did she have? The sequence of deaths of grandma, father and mother and their respective wills, if any, become of great importance.
6. What happens to the SAH house at Claygate? That involved one or more of grandpa’s wills (real, forged, signed under duress) which was being probated, and on which SAH had placed a caveat, to be notified if probate was granted and he wished to contest. What happens to that right – I believe he had only 8 days to protest? Is that right a part of his estate? Will the courts suspend the probate because of his death?
7. What happens to the Swiss account – at least the one we know about? Was that the property of SAH or was it grandpa’s and is part of his estate and the multiple wills?
8. The girls – their representatives – might well bring civil lawsuits for damages on one grounds or another. What if something that SAH was working on put him in what his contracting employer should have known put him in danger.
9. Who are the girls’ heirs if something should happen to one or both of them?
10. Expect 10 years to resolve these matters what with appeals and all.
NR there’s no doubt it is complicated, but for the ‘girls ‘ best interest I feel after three months with no parents, they must need some family comfort.
I don’t know the answer obviously, but……….
Doesn’t the hawala system rely on promissory notes?
Q
Kind of, yes.
The “banker” or the “Knight” holds the promise between themselves.
They gave the “note” to the pilgrim.
And the ole Templar were not to be messed with.
Although, they “technically” held the monies.
A bit like the Swiss.
Like the “pay book” system. But that’s Flemings and Austria.
http://www.meridiandist.com/news/news_full.php?news_id=5
“Also part of the team is the ex defence attaché to the middle east area.”
I wonder which former defence attache that would be.
On another matter, does anyone happen to know when Guy Sayle was sent to Egypt/Kuwait?
This is one of Meridian’s “bespoke” security products:
http://www.meridiandist.com/products/wasp.php
However, there are many others. Just click on “Products”.
https://www.duedil.com/company/04787511/meridian-defence-and-security-limited
“They owe £486,137 to creditors and are due £859,042 from trade debtors. As of their last financial statement, they had £5,133 in cash reserves.”
Straw
Possibly the bike was eemoved by police forces with brutal force. I dont know. Perhaps they did it to transport and to cover the car. I dont know, but possible. Then the broken rack would be innocent and not related to the assassination. It is just a possibility.
Tim v.
The “witness” phillip D. said that BM was running down the road and carrying a bike. We did discuss that as it is weird to carry a bike downhill. That is what gave me the idea that it was perhaps BM who did take that bike from the roof. I would never carry a bike unless that bike had a technical problem, for instance a lost or loose front wheel.
You can read the report about phillip d. saying that BM did carry his bike. We discussed that strange incident back then but we did never regard that as to be important.
The Pedalling Pensioner !
Murder At Lake Annecy..
No, not the title of an Agatha Christie book but an event that took place near me on my visit to France last week.
Read more …
http://briangoldsmith.wordpress.com/tag/chevaline/
http://briangoldsmith.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/annecy-bike-rides/
The next day I did the same climb agasin, but solo, Cyril hadn’t been persuaded that climbing was his thing. This time however I carried on over the toil, exploring new ground. What a thrilling descent that was. About 7 miles of hairpins over sparsely trafficked roads enabling a bit of licence taking a wider line around the hairpins.
I dropped down into the back of Albertville and made my way through town and then onto the bottom end of the cycle path the 20 miles or so back to camp.
This was the day of murders referred to in my previous posting and my route took me within a couple of hundred yards of the murder spot but fortunately just early enough to miss all the excitement!
Heres his route
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/221046693
13 mph average speed. With climbs.
Makes 3 Kms in 30 minutes look lame !
Q
did just dig a few minutes your meridien company
boss: ali parvez
http://www.companydirectorcheck.com/parvez-ali
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/parvez-ali/28/122/573
His contact #1
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/mark-hussey/2b/290/4a5?trk=pub-pbmap
Contact of marc hussey:
http://au.linkedin.com/pub/samuel-dudley/40/b5a/78b?trk=pub-pbmap
… And we are again in australian aerospace (ali al hilli and wbm).
The world is small. 🙂
James, what did you smoke tonight? Can i get that, too?