The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
This appeared in yesterday’s Daily Mirror by Nick Owens about their crime investigator “Mark Williams-Thomas, the former police detective turned TV presenter” and some of the cases he had investigated. In respect to the Chevaline killings, it contains the rather startling assertion that four year old Zeena was killed and only eight year old Zainab survived. This is too important a point to be a mistake surely yet contradicts earlier statements that she was returned to England almost immediately? Is this another variation to the story line emmerging? Remember that Maillaud initially reported that Zainab was dead when he knew her to be alive!!!! This is too wierd for words.
“Al-Hilli murder mystery
This remains one of the most mysterious cases I have ever come across.
On September 5, Saad Al-Hilli, 50, his wife Iqbal, 47, her mother, Suhaila Al-Allaf, 74, and Saad’s four-year-old daughter Zeena were all shot dead at a remote location on the edge of a small village of Chevaline in the French Alps.
Also fatally shot was French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, 45.
Those killed were hit each twice in the forehead at point-blank range, as well as sustaining other shots to their bodies.
The only survivor of these horrific murders was the family’s other daughter Zeinab, seven, who was shot in the shoulder and beaten.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-investigator-mark-williams-thomas-1509838
@Tim
Interesting its the Daily Mirror that has the flag in Giez on google maps as the site of the murder even in quite recent photo’s I have been wondering about that.
Giez looks to me closer than Chevaline but every story says Chevaline and I have assumed its because access is from Chevaline direction.
I don’t like vigilante telly programs there should be reliable standards and proper complaint procedures in place for builders etc and probably are,as for getting involved in policing I am surprised that is even legal.
@Tim
Its suprising that no-one has commented on this error in the Mirror are you going to go for it?
James
31 Dec, 2012 – 9:29 am I think Laurent Fillion was originally quoted as “some time between 2.30 and 3.00 pm. Their account is strengthen because they appear to be genuine builders, they had to physically stop work to move stuff to allow the car to pass it seems, they had just restarted work after a lunch break, he describes car and occupants (as far as we know) accurately, he says they held up the BMW for about ten minutes (destroying the credibility of the 3.15 photo incidentally), and they don’t claim to have heard the shots, which they might have if they had been rehearsed or wished to brag. I believe it is one of the more reliable bits of information although others disagree.
The refined report that this was 2.40 (allowing ten mins. for delay) to 2.50, fits well with the first report. A bit later however, I believe to accommodate the later police reports, whether at their direct request or not we cannot say, he moves his estimate to a slightly later time of “3 pm or soon after” I think he says. Even so it still predates the Arnaud photo by 15 min. or so, so doesn’t help the police story line much, which I think is highly suspicious. For some reason, and I can think of a few reasons, the French authorities don’t want us to think (or know) they got to Martinet a good half hour before the shooting, which we must assume are the fatal shots, occur.
Now where to place Zainab’s reported evidence “that the shooting started as soon as they arrived” which would support the police story line but not the builder’s account. Trouble is I’m rather sceptical about this as first it is second or third hand, coming to us via several layers. Who did she actually say it to? It couldn’t have been WBM or PD because both report she was almost immediately unconscious. It couldn’t have been to police and ambulance workers at the scene for the same reason, plus she was placed in a medically induced coma for several days. So presumably if she said it, it was was several days later to either French, British, medical, social or police representatives. This remember is an injured, deeply traumatised litle girl of only eight faced with what? Suggested interpretation of events?
But we do not only have these doubts we have objective facts to back us up. We know that no shooting could commence until SM had arrived and we must assume he arrived after the Al Hillis or they would have passed WBM on the way up, and he has made no suggestion of that. (This btw of course supports the builder’s timings) So not only do they have to be parked up for some time, they must have time to get out of the car, in the case of Saad walk around it and then wait for Sylvain Mollier to arrive, get off his bike, walk from it and join the two of them (proved by the blood splashes) before the attack can commence. Therefore it could not be physically possible for the shooting to have started the moment they arrived, as Zainab is reported to have said. Either she was incorrect or mis-quoted.
As to the shots and the time of them at about 3.30 James
31 Dec, 2012 – 9:29 am we have I believe three independent, unrelated (except for father and son) I mean really from quite separate locations – two in Chevaline and one from the woods themselves although we don’t know where precisely. He was able to get back by a roundabout route, so I am assuming he was on higher ground to the east, but I have nothing to substantiate this. What is clear is that if the shots were at 3.30 and the emergency vehicles start to arrive soon after 4 (shall we say 4.10?) he hangs around for some time, for he hears both and does not set off back until he hears the sirens, realising he could get into trouble being under age and uninsured apart from breaking forestry roles. His immediate thought may even have been that he was the cause. He was on a motor bike, so the reports he heard must have been loud enough to hear above it unless he had it turned off, which he doesnt say was the case. This of course makes WBM’s claim that he heard nothing when riding a push bike with only the sound of the stream, rather incredible.
ALARM BELLS START TO RING
NR
31 Dec, 2012 – 12:03 pm. BOTH the newspaper references you give to Daily Mail and Telegraph articles come up as “unavailable”. Have they been “got at” or am I just being melodramatic?
No both gone Tim the mail was gone when I read earlier but the Telegraph was still working now they are both gone.
@Tim V: “They are also certain of the time (2.40 pm) which raises the interesting question why they later push the time back to gone three. Were they pressurised by the police to fit the later story of the 3.15 pm photo. This if true would suggest that the police themselves wanted the later time which poses the question “Why would they want to make it seem that the Al Hilli’s arrived AT LEAST half an hour after they did?” ”
I think you are on the right track here – while we cannot independently verify any of the facts or interview witnesses on our own, one way to reconstruct what might have happened is by tracing those items the official investigation wants to steer us away from by changing the timing. This, coupled with elimination of those items that are in direct conflict with each other, could narrow the possibilities for what actually did happen – even if not provide all the answers.
In this, the time change of the Builders story is indeed very significant – for whatever reason, they (police, officials) needed to have the BMW arrive later – by at least half an hour – possibly 40 minutes. A recent statement I saw i- made, I believe by EM – is that the shooting started almost as soon as the vehicle arrived. The statement of a picture taken in Arnaud at 3:15PM – giving them exactly 15 minutes to arrive at the martinet (which, by itself is a stretch) before the shooting points to another official push in the direction of having the BMW arrive later (yes, I know – they are flailing). The contradiction between the 3:15PM picture time and the original 2:40PM passing by the Builders time must not have gone un-noticed, which necessitates a forward “moving of the clock” for the sighting by LF builders. There was probably some typical arm twisting to challenge the builders memory of the event, until they agreed to something like “sometime past 3PM” where before they were quite certain of the time. It’s what witnesses do when pushed – they agree to equivocate, since presumably – as regular people – they are not comfortable with an outright lie.
We also know that the earlier arrival time by SAH and family fits better with WBM’s account who claims not to have seen the BMW pass and did not hear any shots, just as you (or was it james?) pointed out above. Though we can’t believe everything WBM chose to tell, we have good indications that he is not quite playing ball with the French officials in charge of the cover-up. What details he chose to reveal in his interviews were carefully selected – and edited by his superiors. He may be another person who is not willing to lie outright though is in no position to tell the whole truth either.
If OTHO, it is true that SAH arrived earlier (say by 3PM), then the photo at 3:15 PM cannot be true. But then we should treat that photo time as suspect since the police declined to release the picture due to “Morbid” factors (gentle souls that they are), and so far, we have strictly their word for it and the time stamp.
I think that Pink’s interest in the possibility that there was a “going past the barrier” can be seen in light of this earlier arrival time and the almost frantic attempts by the official accounts to shift the arrival time to later. The question that overshadows this account is why? what conceivable reasons are there to hide 1/2 hour of time – make it disappear, so to speak. I definitely think some speculation is in order here.
Now we have this strange DM account that Zeena was killed, and Zainab was the only one to survive. This is downright bizarre, as was the early statement by EM that Zainab was dead and the confusing of the children’s names in early accounts that Straw brought to my attention. On top of this we know that there are clear attempts to not let the children be adopted by their own family – an glaring departure from English social services practices in similar cases where children were orphaned.
In summary, here is what the officials in charge don’t want us to know or believe:
1. Earlier arrival time by SAH and family
2. The children’s actual condition when found (plus early confusing of the names)
3. SM being a target in any way
4. The killers’ (4×4) car making the circular tyre tracks
5. The possibility of multiple assassins
6. WBM making the 3:48PM phone call (or anyone else for that matter – they must still be working on this).
7. Involvement of a motorcycle.
8. A professional, meticulously planned hit.
9. SAH being a British intelligence asset
10. Iqbal’s origins and possible connection to Iran (remember all the confusion there? and the complete lack of clarity since?)
Needless to say, for those of us holding on to the extraction scenario as one possibility – these confusions and re-writes of the official narrative make sense (alas, that in return for opening a new set of questions that reflect on the “why there and why so complicated”?). But then I prefer to keep several theories in the running as long as there is no clear-cut evidential reason to eliminate them.
Tim V – I really like your etymology!
If the location was the killers’ choice then we need to also consider the possible reasons why the ‘deed” could not be carried out in England, especially if only SAH was the target. This by itself points to the following possibilities:
1. SM has a crucial role in the whole affair which required a location near Ugine (maybe it’s a bit of killing several birds with one stone?)
2. SAH’s entire family was targeted – something that could not be easily done in the UK without lots and lots of involved parties. That really raises a big question – why?
3. Lack of trust by the killers’ agency in MI6 or other Brit intelligence/police agreeing to fully collude in either the killings or the cover-up.
4. The killers’ agency has confidence that the French PTB and police will not make too many waves (I suggested before that the killers agency must have more influence with the French than the British).
5. Anything to do with the relative ease of access in and out of the country by the killers party and/or the legalities of the french police system vs the English one.
I know these are only questions but sometimes knowing what to ask begs the answer(s)?
SAH gives the impression of being careful not to upset his neighbours or draw attention to himself. His car and caravan and kit all appear to indicate he was fastidious in his way of life. It strikes me the layby at which he stopped was the last before two lots of sighs – on informational the other prohibitory, and there is nothing to suggest he went beyond them, not even on foot. I am convinced at least, that this well signed layby was the pre determined location to meet. It would be impossible to confuse or miss. This would be essential for the planning of the operation. We cannot be ABSOLUTELY certain on SM route. The following are suggestive that he came up route d’Ire despite the fact that no one else appears to have seen him:- WBM says he overtook him; his partner came to the bottom of the Combe to seach for him as if she that was his destination; this conflicts with any suggestion he had lost his way; his new expensive bike was a racer not a BMX, so not suited to the other less metalled routes; he is unlikely to have risked damaging such an expensive machine on unmade roads; it appears his bike lying on the ground indicates upwards direction of travel next to the car and not at the far/sign end.
Now a thought I have had knocking around in my brain is a version of the extraction theory suggested byFelix or NR was it (sorry I cant recall at the moment) But what if the meeting was on the back of a deal to extract some but not all? What if the plan was to help mother-in-law or Mollier out of their respective countries? Mollier’s bike could go back on top the car. Iqbal(?) had her passport and off she could fly (like a Martin) to hoter climes. I realise this too is a flight of fancy but I’m just suggesting it as a possible lure by the killers to meet up where they did.
that last was reply to Pink
31 Dec, 2012 – 3:38 pm – sorry
@Tim
There was another shot witness that was called the PAH PAH PAH lady .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19499052
I tried Pink
31 Dec, 2012 – 7:27 pm but it just came up it was trying to connect me. It’s the most astounding mistake I have seen from someone who claims to be an ex detective expert, responsible for solving many high profile cases. How could he get such an important fact wrong after so much time has elapsed, after he visited the actual site and spoke to Maillaud in person? It can’t even be explained away as a “typo” either as further down he confirms it by saying “The only survivor of these horrific murders was the family’s other daughter Zeinab, seven, who was shot in the shoulder and beaten.” Note the spelling of the name too. Even for the Mirror this is not easily explained and raises a fundamental question “Was Zeena alive or dead when they found her?!!!! Were we told lies about her survival and does it explain why she was so still for so long? I just can’t understand how this got past the editors if false or conversely if true why other papers havent picked up on it.
Tim V 9:24 PM – looks like our minds are on parallel tracks – the “Extraction gone wrong” is one of my favorite scenarios (it’s those passports at the foot well!).
The idea that there would be partial extraction – perhaps of just SAH’s family – in return for information, important documents and/or delivering SM to his adversaries – came to my mind before. Perhaps Saad was needed to finger SM or the other way around?
I do agree that the question of the what could be used to entice Saad + family to that remote location where even cell phone tracking was not possible – is an essential ingredient to the entire saga. The likelihood that Saad would drag an entire family in a packed car to a cul-de-sac of sorts just begars the mind. That kind of adventurousness is quite out of keeping with what we know of him – there is little evidence that he was fond of off-the-beaten-track roads. I think we can only assume that he HAD to bring the family, perhaps as part of a deal to vouch for him. So it’s either that OR or to follow a promise of some sort that was made to him regarding their safety.
Where the fork is in the road regarding the extraction possibility is on the question of whether it has, in fact, gone through – or went awry in part or in whole. To that we do not have a definitive answer as we are not meant to have one, virtually by definition.
No matter which way we go with what theory one of the greatest mysteries here is the complete lack of photographs of the AH family and SM. This is one of the aspects that makes this entire case stand out from other mystery killings – like Gareth Williams or Kelly etc. To my limited mind, having no public picture – or any information about one victim or another can be explained somehow but all of them (excepting a couple of file photos for Saad)? if muslim customs can be used as argument to explain the lack of photos for Iqbal and Suhaila. what of the children? can any of us recall another case where children were victims and there was not a single photo available? and if SM was an innocent victim caught in a malee, how can we explain the complete and total absence of any photo of him anywhere either? That “privacy’ argument just doesn’t wash for the accidental victim case – surely his family would raise heaven and earth to find the culprit(s)? produce some flattering photos to garner sympathy for the cause of furthering justice? there is absolutely no argument that can be raised to justify the blanket of silence for an “innocent” victim, a father of 3, gunned down in the prime of his life by unknown “thugs”.
So, as complicated and tricky the extraction theory (part/whole, successful or not) is, the official story of the lone psycho killer is by far, the least credible of all the theories one can conceive of. Yet, that’s what EM pushes, in complete defiance of logic and intelligence. And the reporters quote him without expressing an iota of doubt. And that – the silence of anyone and everyone in MSM – is the other great mystery here. A “juicy” murder-mystery with leads going every which way, children orphaned in a massacre, and not one reporter out there speculating and questioning/ (blogs and off-MSM aside)? we can say all we want about the incompetence of present day reporting and the lack of funds for investigative journalism but that still doesn’t explain why someone, say an up and coming reporter, is not trying to get some mileage out the story? one that’s sure to sell newspapers like hot cakes?
No, we definitely don’t have the facts on this case, but even in their absence, logic is still a good teacher – at least for what the case isn’t.
I found a surviving link for the telegraph story on Williams. Vey strange that the story was so quickly disappeared.
http://news.onlinenigeria.com/nigeria-news/7339-body-in-the-bag-mi6-spy-gareth-williams-and-his-mystery-links-to-kazakh-oligarch.html
Marlin I am not a fan of the extraction idea but it did occur to me earlier that there is no way to check on the welfare of these children ,we were led to believe that Zeena had returned to england with relatives and the shortly after Zainab went from critically injured to being sent back to England and then out of the blue comes a story saying they are in foster care and not with the family .
I was gobsmacked to be honest and while I accept that the children need to be kept safe until this murder is solved it also means that we can’t know what is happening to them, I find that quite disturbing who is in a position to check on them ,I really hope the close family have some rights to see that all is well even if they can’t take them home.
ah ah I have found the BBC source that linked the top lay-by as the site.
Posted by davevader 22-10-2012, 07:56 PM on DI
I see nothing to suggest that the layby is anywhere but as identified already in this thread.
I had posted some additional aerial photography links a few weeks ago on this thread, the French govt source i linked has different coverage which should be used in conjunction with the google maps images. Perhaps I’ll dig out the link and repost when I’m back In front of my PC rather than on my phone.
Here is a picture from the BBC news site (which in turn they borrowed from news international) which also identifies the same location for the layby:
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62750000/jpg/_62750011_is_of_layby.jpg
Marlin
31 Dec, 2012 – 8:57 pm as always I agree with your logic completely. I like your summary of things the frenchies appear to want to stop us thinking all of which I have suggested in the past. If we are correct it amounts to a huge conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, unless they successfully plead incompetence or stupidity. I think your approach as described is very similar to mine. I have always tried to reconstruct events from the facts we are presented with, and to try to test their veracity by what is physically possible, what we can see and as you say how the various stories fit together. I am sure if we had access to the information available to the French police and secret services we would be a lot further forward. I have little doubt that MI6 and the French equivilent DO know precisely what happened, which makes Maillaud’s position untenable. I believe we have proved the mendacity of the French position. (So far the press has not challenged it but we live in hope they will) The more difficult, possibly unrealistic one remains, of “Why?”.
Full story and wrong pic at bottom no.3
7 September 2012
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19524231?photo_id=217259&photo_no=7&gallery_id=/strictly2010/week2_dancefloor
One further little point about the builders you might have missed Marlin
31 Dec, 2012 – 8:57 pm – the fact that even if for arguments sake we were to agree they were wildly out on their estimate of the time, and that the photo at Arnaud or wherever was indeed at 3.15, which as I previously explained gives insufficient time for them all to be dead by 3.30, we still have a very significant stumbling block to this hypothesis. Laurent-Fillion says, and I can see no reason why he would make this up, that he estimates he DELAYED the BMW for TEN MINUTES getting past them. When you factor in this delay, the “highly unlikely” becomes a physical impossibility.
Marlin
31 Dec, 2012 – 9:16 pm sure thing. I have posed the same question. Such questions can sometimes reveal far more than at first sight seems likely but I feel I have run out of steam now. Maybe you will allow me to revisit tomorrow? Happy new year btw to you and everyone.
NR, 9:48AM – that French article is interesting. I note that the reporter(s) state unequivocally that Phillipe D made the phone call at 3:48PM. From which we can surmise that at least at the time this article was written – Sep 15, this was the official story they settled on. Which, per Tim V’s timeline, is fraught with contradictions, as that would require WBM to arrive on the scene perhaps no later 3:40PM on the outside, giving him less than 5 minutes max to do all he claims to have done. But if so, there’s no way he wouldn’t have heard the shots at 3;30PM being so close to the scene, is there? I need to go back and revisit Tim’s timeline to see all the other contradictions, including with the moment when SM is supposed to have passed WBM on the way up. That BTW, is another time point that the official story seems to have been tinkering with (didn’t I see a claim recently – perhaps from EM – positing that SM passed WBM at the beginning of the route?).
I wish my French was good enough to follow Laurent’s speculations on how another vehicle (of the killers) could have gone up the same route of the Al Hillis’ car without being seen by them.
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thanks for this Pink
31 Dec, 2012 – 9:30 pm and Marlin
31 Dec, 2012 – 10:56 pm for cleverly bypassing the censor with that find in Nigeria of all places. Oh the power of the internet. The connection of Gareth Williams, an active British MI6 Agent and the son of one of the richest Kazakh oligarchs on the one hand and the daughter of one of the richest men in America on the other, seems just a tad coincidental don’t you think? Meanwhile in the USA the case against James Giffen that implicated the CIA and high figures in the Bush Administration, has been thrown out be the Judge after seven years awaiting trial.
“Giffen stands accused of funneling about $80 million in bribes to Nursultan Nazarbayev in return for negotiating U.S. access to Kazakhstan’s oil fields in the Caspian; he claimed, however, that he was knowingly and deliberately working for the CIA when he was doing so. This presented something of a quandry for the government: they can either proceed with the discovery phase of the trial and declassify some of their files and operational details in Kazakhstan, or they can try to let Giffen languish in prison until he gives up playing his game and just confesses. Federal authorities went for the latter, and as a result Giffen sat in prison for an unprecedented seven years without a trial.
Eventually, the judge presiding over the case ruled that the CIA was dragging its feet in providing the documents constitutionally Giffen is constitutionally owed in his trial. The government responded by dropping most of the charges against him” http://registan.net/2010/08/09/giffen-goes-free/
Incredibly the CIA spends over sixty BILLION dollars a year. Where this actually goes is shrouded in secrecy but since at least Contra, it is evident that a good proportion goes in bribes around the world furthering the United States strategic policy objectives and to maintain its hegemony. What was Gareth Williams getting uptight and intimate with these most unusual of bedfellows. Was his mission to discover what was going on in this Kazakh/USA nexus and did he die for it? What middle east nexus was it SAH’s mission to discover that others were determined to prevent?
Pink
31 Dec, 2012 – 11:12 pm I think I might have been one of the first to point out this particular nugget of misinformation that appeared right at the beginning but proved quite resistant to correction.
Still here lol Marlin
1 Jan, 2013 – 12:29 am. A long time ago now I covered this little gem. (that P D made the call at 3.48!!! and pointed out your observation. I’m so pleased the significance of the time line in proving the official story is bluntly – a lie.
Leaving aside that the first lie was WBM making the call, as you rightly observe if PD made the call at 3.48 the EARLIEST possible opportunity was after WBM met him several hundred yards down the Combe d’Ire. Not only does this conflict with his earlier account that he was “APPROACHING CHEVALINE” after four and meeting WBM at about 4.10, but we have to deduct from it the time for WBM to do all the things he did before meeting PD. (We will leave aside that PD also said he did not phone until after they had gone back to the scene and back down the hill again!)
WBM could not have taken less than 20 minutes from his first sight of bike and Zainab staggering (remember he had to cycle to the actual layby, dismount, attend to Zainab, assess her condition, move her, move to Mollier, check his pockets, move him a heavy dead weight, “go around the other side of the car”, smash the window, turn off the engine, check the occupants one by one, go around the car again and check that side, take out his phone and try to dial and find he had no signal, move back to Zainab and check her again, weigh up what to do, decide to leave her and cycle back down the hill where about two or three hundred yards he meets PD, who has to stop his car, get out and try to understand what this panicking Englishman, who could not speat fluent french, was trying to say) BEFORE he could have made the remarkable 3.48 call!
If all this is accurate, IF, Brett Martin MUST have arrived at the crime scene no later than 3.28 – i.e. BEFORE the sound of gunfire. It would inevitably mean – do I need to spell it out? – Martin was at the scene when the shooting actually took place. Conversely if he actually did arrive on scene after the shooting, it is physically impossible that Didierjean could have made the call at 3.48.
Now I really MUST go to bed – the first of 2013.
William Cooper – Behold a Pale Horse.
Does something sound common?
That isnt any news from today. This is a book from many years ago.
The government encouraged the manufacture and importation of military firearms for the criminals to use. This is intended to foster a feeling of insecurity, which would lead the American people to voluntarily disarm themselves by passing laws against firearms. Using drugs and hypnosis on mental patients in a process called Orion, the CIA inculcated the desire in these people to open fire on schoolyards and thus inflame the antigun lobby. This plan is well under way, and so far is working perfectly. The middle class is begging the government to do away with the 2nd amendment. Author’s Note: I have found that these events have indeed happened all over the country. In every instance that I have investigated — the incident at the women’s school in Canada, the shopping center incident in Canada, the Stock- ton, California, massacre, and the murder of Rabbi Meir Kahane — the shooters were all ex-mental patients or were current mental patients who were ALL ON THE DRUG PROZAC! This drug, when taken in certain doses, increases the serotonin level in the patient, causing extreme violence. Couple that with a posthypnotic suggestion or control through an electronic brain implant or microwave or E.L.F. intrusion and you get mass murder, ending in every case with the suicide of the perpetrator. Exhume the bodies of the murderers and check for a brain implant. I think you are going to be surprised. In every case the name of the murderer’s doctor or mental treatment facility has been withheld. I believe we will be able to establish intelligence-com- munity connections and/or connections to known CIA experimental mind- control programs when we finally discover who these doctors of death really are.
Happy New Year everyone
Did Ricky say that in binary?
Maybe the story was known to the BBC before it happened, but SAH parked in the wrong layby, the extraction went wrong and the BBC failed to change the location from what they had been informed would happen to reality.
If this was an intended extraction the builders have to be part of the scheme stopping anybody else getting to the scene ‘by car’.
Our intel dont want to us to believe the extraction story and so now it was the Al-Hillis who were held up by the builders, even though that makes the happenings an impossibility.
The Al-Hilli’s were told to take ‘the family photos’ as extra evidence that this was just a family picnic with no other motive for driving up that road.
@ Marlin 1 Jan, 2013 – 12:29 am
“NR, 9:48AM – that French article is interesting.”
http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-divers/Actualite/Le-scenario-minute-par-minute-de-la-tuerie-de-Chevaline-555890
“A beautiful day. Hot and sunny. It’s a good half hour this Wednesday afternoon as Laurent **, 35, and his young apprentice took over the job after the lunch break. And labour, there to enlarge this small wood chalet, as the portal has taken very late.”
“** First name has changed.”
@Tim V 31 Dec, 2012 – 7:37 pm
“James 31 Dec, 2012 – 9:29 am
I think Laurent Fillion was originally quoted as “some time between 2.30 and 3.00 pm. Their account is strengthen because they appear to be genuine builders…”
This is the same person? Then why does this paper say they’ve changed his first name when they have not? They never give the last name, Fillion. It’s like PD, who is at first nameless, then a first name, and finally a last name that doesn’t obviously connect to anyone in the area.
It gets curiorser and curiouser.
Me: “For example there is a new bit of info in the Gareth William’s case in England after two years:”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2254903/Body-bag-MI6-spy-Gareth-Williams-mystery-links-Kazakh-oligarch.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9770652/Body-in-the-bag-spy-Gareth-Williams-and-his-mystery-links-to-Kazakh-oligarch.html
@ Tim V 31 Dec, 2012 – 8:11 pm
“ALARM BELLS START TO RING
NR 31 Dec, 2012 – 12:03 pm. BOTH the newspaper references you give to Daily Mail and Telegraph articles come up as “unavailable”. Have they been “got at” or am I just being melodramatic?”
@ Pink 31 Dec, 2012 – 8:52 pm
“No both gone Tim the mail was gone when I read earlier but the Telegraph was still working now they are both gone.”
@ Marlin 31 Dec, 2012 – 10:56 pm
“I found a surviving link for the telegraph story on Williams. Vey strange that the story was so quickly disappeared.”
http://news.onlinenigeria.com/nigeria-news/7339-body-in-the-bag-mi6-spy-gareth-williams-and-his-mystery-links-to-kazakh-oligarch.html
Both the DM and Telegraph pages are still gone, so they didn’t just pull them to redact or correct something minor. The Nigerian link is still there as of a few moments ago.
Did the British editors receive a friendly call from the MIs or Carter-Ruck, or did they spot limos with Kazakhi diplomatic plates repeatedly cruising past their homes?
We must thank the Nigerians for back up. They weren’t intimidated by the mercs at Pilgrims Africa either, and managed to scam them out of hundreds of thousands of pounds. PA sued them in the UK. I forget who won.
I’ll cross post this whole comment over to marilynztomlins.com as I put the original links there and they’ll be interested in what happened.