The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Q
8 Jan, 2013 – 12:46 am to the above
as always Marlin
8 Jan, 2013 – 12:41 am i agree as always with your thinking. that mtz quote pink used is very sloppy thinking and leaves out the builder’s testimony. anyway the Al hillis werereported leaving their camp site about 1 pm thats nearly TWO HOURS to get to martinet even if they arrive at the earlier time indicated by the builders. With no evidence that they detoured thats more than enough time to stop for a photo but i dont for a moment believe it was 3.15. 2.15 perhaps.
oh and you sound surprised both mollier and sah had nuclear connections. we have known from the beginning that SAH was at Rutherford early in his career. maybe it how he got his job at SST?
too late. too many mistakes. how do killers sleep?
Tim V – I did not want to interject on Rutherford or SSTL for professional reasons (not a good idea to show more knowledge than warranted, is it?). Suffice it to say that I doubt Rutherford is enough of a nuclear connection – despite appearances that the lab is engaged in many related areas (such as laser induced isotope separation that almost every government lab anywhere has had a hand in). based on the little we had about Saad’s work there it seems he was just starting out his career at that point and was probably part of a research-oriented group (of which there are quite a few in RL) rather than some seriously spooky activity. No way would he have had the clearance required for certain types of work, given his background, no matter how talented.
The other thing I try to keep in mind is that Saad was said to have trained as a mechanical engineer. Usually that means he will know fairly little about say, optics or lasers, though he may have been involved in Opto-mechanical design activities that are crucial to the operation of say, lasers, and definitely to the design of any satellite payload. There are indications that he was indeed engaged in opto-mechanical designs (say for the swedish medical Elekta company), and it is possible he did things in that area at RL too.
For satellites, the mechanical part of the design is all-important – given the need to survive launch vibrations and orbital tumbling. So people with specialized knowledge in that area are in fact, quite in demand (in case anyone is looking for a job it’s there practically for the asking). What is important is that along the way, Saad would have developed a deep knowledge base of materials – and will likely have a working knowledge of metallurgy, plastics and ceramics. There is currently a huge effort underway to develop lighter more robust and ;smarter” materials for both space and weaponry (and medical devices etc) including nuclear ones.
If I were looking for a connection between our erstwhile “welder” SM and Cezus and saad and his background in satellites, my hunch says it would be in the materials area. We know about Zirconium, for example, and titanium (popular alloys) but there are new variants coming along all the time based on e.g. nano-technology (such as carbon nano-tubes to cite one major ongoing research interest). If you look at what DARPA is supporting for example (ie, what’s out in the open) you’ll see the interest in materials that can be made lighter, thinner, with higher tensile strength and better resistance to radiation, temperature fluctuations and what not. For the nanosatellites of the future (yes, they are coming – and i can’t say I’m sure it’s good thing but it IS fascinating) know-how and expertise in advanced metal development is essential.
Sorry for the “tutorial” – I really don’t mean to put on airs or anything, just use a little of what I do know to eliminate possibilities that are less likely. Sometimes, popular articles make certain science developments appear as if the solutions are at hand whereas the reality is that it’s many years away based on practical considerations. i know people brought up links here that kind of made me cringe a little at the optimism.
When it comes to spies/agents, which Saad may well have been (as we all believe) and SM as well, we need to look at a connection on a practical level. Agencies and planners of mafeasance care little about some fancy research (and just as well). If the connection involves something within the nuclear industry, I haven’t see the smoking gun yet that’s all I am trying to say (so very lengthily and densely. Sorry). But I’ll keep paying attention to what everyone finds….it’s there somewhere, and there were times, looking at some information brought up that I got the feeling people were bouncing off something important, just not right on top of the point.
B-R-E-A-K-I-N-G
Here’s why he could get away with it for so many years [Clue: He was always loved and protected by the media. He was one of them.]
@ bluebird 8 Jan, 2013 – 1:17 am
“OK. Search google for “ARCHULETA MESA””
Congrats, Bluebird, you have solved the mystery of mass murderers worldwide!
They are aliens, and they can closely mimic humans, but can’t get their eyes quite small enough, accounting for the bug-eyed appearance.
Reports on Archuleta Mesa say the are is known for for cattle mutilations. In fear of being found out, the aliens searched the Internet for another good place to kill animals and it pointed them to Chevaline where, not finding horses, they shot some cows – don’t know why they didn’t further mutilate them – then murdered or abducted the human witnesses in flying saucers.
EM was right when he said the killer(s) could be little men from Mars. He was leaving us an important clue, while still covering for the US Govt. that can’t admit some of their aliens escaped from New Mexico. 🙂
NR – you are a riot. Keep it up and keep Bluebird perched on his/her wing’s edge…
Tim V – re Mossad – good extracts – I read Ostrovsk’s book not too long ago. Should check out some of the others (when time allows).
One problem with Mossad operation as the killer agency is that they prefer not to execute foreign nationals who are not Middle eastern or Middle eastern in origin. Not because of any excess humanity or anything but because of the potential political repercussions. In the case of Chevaline, I doubt they’d hesitate or have the slightest compunction with regard to the Al Hillis if they sought the operation was “warranted” by their [badly twisted] national security concerns (to the average israeli – and Mossad types are thoroughly israeli in being brought up through a system a bit short on compassion – the Al Hillis are just “Arabs” – no matter what passports they have), but there would be serious question marks about Sylvain Mollier – a true blue Frenchman – whatever he is supposed to have done. So while the MO fits perfectly, I still have doubts with regard to the official Israeli green light. The only reason I can see the go-ahead would be granted is if there was something really big and really serious at stake (at least by their own calculations). And that’s what brings me back to the need for a smoking gun – if we had a better inkling about why they were killed so brutally, then we’ll know how likely it is to have been an officially sanctioned kidon team that did the deed.
BTW, by the same token I have serious reservations about it being good old official CIA black ops. It would have to be a really major motivation for taking such a risk, especially with killing SM. But it was suggested earlier – by NR I think and BB – that there could be “rogue” elements involved. That’s a distinct possibility, but if so, something tells me that the British will continue to “make trouble” for the cover-up story and may even up it a notch. We’ll see (where art thou Brett Martin? come back for another interview, won’t you? it will assuage your guilt – really — I promise…).
@ Q 8 Jan, 2013 – 12:24 am
“@NR: Are you referring to “the Jasons” of La Jolla?”
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=376
No, I wasn’t, it was Bluebird who brought up the connection between James Holmes and Salk, where he did some work or studies.
The page above is good. I’d heard second or third hand of The Jasons, from somebody who worked on a DARPA project. The bit about underwater sound studies relates to – I think it was James or Tim V – saying above how rumors of silent Soviet subs were justification for years of research to develop methods to detect them.
The person who has the above page also wrote a book debunking string theory, a view I agree with, as I’m partial to quantum foam, if one can ever find a barista to make it correctly.
In the comments sections some of the pure mathematicians deplore their fellows who have sold out and work on horrid military projects. Like if our scientists wouldn’t do such evil things then their counterparts in China, Russia, Pakistan, etc. would see the light and stop.
Off-topic
@ bluebird 8 Jan, 2013 – 1:17 am
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18830522
“He added that Holmes “was dripping with sweat” and his pupils were very big.”
That blows the Scopolamine theory, which greatly dilates pupils but interferes with sweating – thoroughly dries out the body.
In five pages of reporting on the hearing, the Denver Post has little useful info. A quote from a relative of one of the victims that he was sure he saw Holmes smirking when the killings were described.
Wonderfully illustrated with victims’ pics – all beautiful – their best studio pics, contrasted with weirdo Holmes. Wonder if there were any unattractive victims or is Aurora a place like Lake Woebegone? [A mythical radio programme town where everybody is above average.]
Speaking of Holmes, I knew that Arthur Conan Doyle, the creator of Sherlock Holmes was big on spiritualism and séances, but learned he was also into the Masonic / Illuminati / Aleister Crowley more Satanic side of things.
What if the stories aren’t fictional at all, but Doyle’s tales of real crimes, and full of Masonic type clues.
It is unacceptable with these American websites from Denver and what have you, and when they concerns english matters it becomes downright absurd in this way to cross the Atlantic and hear the isolated, North American take on the situation.
I have NEVER on any of NR’s links or Q’s for that matter.
I have NEVER clicked on any of NR’s links or Q’s for that matter. This is also meant as a consumer advice, because the possibility exists that they really think that people click on all these links, in which case they live in an illusionary world
Q 12.38 am
I have 3 thoughts why I disagree with the possibility of Japan not being an earthquake:-
1) Duration of the earthquake – 6 minutes
2) Japan, since Kobe have been world leader in earthquake engineering their multi-storey buildings.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/11/AR2011031104541.html
http://www.asme.org/kb/news—articles/articles/construction-and-building/made-in-japan-earthquake-proof-homes
3) Most importantly -aftershocks, dont these prove the earthquake happened? Or were they all man-made too?
I cant comment on whether the radioactive particles indicate this was man-made but surely the outcry would have been immediately afterwards?
I have NEVER clicked on any of NR’s links or Q’s for that matter.
More fool you.
I don’t know if Bluebird know This service ? It shows that relatively few people are called “Schutz” in Germany. I once thought it was a typical German name, but this confirms that it is a rare Jewish name, as I indicated here.
———
PS: unfortunately I cannot get this to work for France and the Netherlands. It could be interesting, but such services may be specific German (and American) phenomenons.
@Marlin
The Sun article has been around for a long time on the link its says:
From GRAEME CULLIFORD, in Chevaline, and PETER ALLEN, in Paris
Published: 21st October 2012
…..
@all
Here is an interesting letter I found written written by Mr Keshe
http://forum.keshefoundation.org/showthread.php?291-The-keshe-Foundation-response
I got it to work re. name distributions in France.
Mollier name is very much concentrated around haute Savoie and Isere
——————-
And the Schutz’es (509 entries) are concentrated around Alsace.
Here is the map:
http://www.familleunie.fr/cartes/detaille/schutz.html
An now you’ve got the drift: Simply place the name you want to search in the URL and hit Enter. It is far the easiest way to search.
—-
And here’s a map of the morrange’s (566 entries) concentrated in the middle of France.
The Ringot’s (683 entries) are very much concentrated in the North along the broder with Belgium, which you can see on this map:
http://www.familleunie.fr/cartes/detaille/ringot.html
The Ringot’s (683 entries) are very much concentrated in the North along the border with Belgium, which you can see on this map:
http://www.familleunie.fr/cartes/detaille/ringot.html
Q
Al Hilli cruising is doing services for drilling equipment.
http://citycatalogue.com/united-arab-emirates/dubai/servicing-of-drilling-systems/6989282/
However, we do not know whether or not related. We do not know about who is running that business. Ali al Hilli, a cousin (not the Ali who lives in Melbourne!) has a Hummer cars export/import business with an office in Dubai. Perhaps he is in contact with that drilling company. Perhaps there is no relation at all.
There are many more al Hilli companies in Dubai. They need to be explored. Look the index at the bottom of the following link:
http://tealpages.com/AE/al-hilli-cruises.html
Ive been doing some research on Raymond Davis the GRS/CIA contractor/Diplomat………….etc etc, Davis was arrested in Pakistan for his part in a shooting of Two ISI agents in Lahore, Pakistan in Jan 2011. RD was paraded in the Pakistani media, he claimed immunity as he was an advisor at the US Consulate until he was exposed in the British Media as a CIA operative with GRS (Global Response Staff).
GRS work closely with the CIA to provide protection and security to the high value spies and assets, many special forces and military staff have been recruited for this reason.
It has been suggested that Davis was protecting someone else that day but they where spirated away after the shooting!
Quote from the Washington Post:
Spywork used to require slipping solo through cities in Eastern Europe. Now, “clandestine human intelligence involves showing up in a Land Cruiser with some [former] Deltas or SEALs, picking up an asset and then dumping him back there when you are through,” said a former CIA officer who worked closely with the security group overseas.
I have been interested in this case for a while as it has exposed a crack in the secret world for us to peer through and learn from, could there be a connection with the new ways spies work to the meeting arranged by Mollier and SAH.
Ive read in many Intelligence service books in the past that families and women have been used in meets before, to make things look more natural, I got thinking that maybe the DGSE and MI6 use the same MO(and am sure this has been suggested before) that SAH was the Asset, Mollier would then be the agent and Brett Martin would be the GRS equivalent.
@Tim V: The ability to create tsunamis using explosives is one thing. The technique developed in WWII by the Americans and Japanese used large amounts of traditional explosives. The allegations concerning the Fukushima tsunami circulating on the web involve the possibility of a nuclear explosion, possibly in the Japan Trench, to start the wave. These are not my ideas, but this led me to a patent by a Canadian for the disposal of nuclear waste in subduction zones. (Jim Baird, inventor and holder of U.S. Patent 5,022,788 and Canadian Patent 2,005,376.) I don’t know if that has occurred yet, or if the idea has moved off the page into reality, but if so, could such a thing have started a tsunami as an unintended consequence (possibly initiating an undersea earthquake in a subduction zone)?
In any case, there are many photos of Japan before the quake, and after, using those earth-viewing satellites that observe disasters, but none that I’ve seen that show the actual tsunami as it began or was in progress. That is a most curious thing. There must be at least one that caught the action. How could there be so many pre- and post-, but none during?
Why this could be relevant to this thread? Saad al-Hilli, of course, worked for a company that did disaster monitoring using satellites. One of the company’s major clients is China. China is in a territorial dispute with Japan over the Senkaku Islands.
There is another consideration involving Sylvain Mollier’s employer. Stepping back in thread #1 to a link I posted some time ago, there was a scandal in France several years ago over faulty fuel rods produced there. Those rods were shipped to nuclear facilities around the world and put into use. What if many of those rods ended up in a reactor at the same time, and what if that reactor was Fukushima Daiichi? How would defective fuel rods react when MOX is used?
Then there’s Japan’s offer to enrich uranium for Iran:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3853864,00.html
The U.K. and France play a role in Japan’s nuclear fuel cycle:
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201209130090
http://www.areva.com/EN/operations-1118/areva-la-hague-recycling-used-fuel.html
AREVA is involved in nuclear fuel reprocessing. Disposal of used nuclear fuel is a growing problem for countries around the world.
One question you have brought up is whether Saad al-Hilli was about to go public with evidence of the Japan tsunami of March 2011 being a man-made disaster not caused by the earthquake. Or was the earthquake of the magnitude we have been told, but enhanced by man-made factors to make the tsunami larger and more catastrophic than it would otherwise have been? It’s at least as valid a question as many of the others that have been considered here.
Amendment: It was not the Americans and Japanese that developed the tsunami bomb in WWII. Americans and New Zealanders developed the tsunami bomb to use on Japan during WWII as an alternative to the nuclear weapons that were dropped. It was “Plan B”, if you will.
At the time of my post about faulty fuel rods produced in France, I also posted about the same issue occurring in the U.K. This problem had been noted as a worldwide one:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/1994/05/faulty-rods
@Ricki Tarr: Is “Land Cruiser” a generic term to describe various large, 4X4 vehicles, which may be different makes and models?
I can’t speak for others Marlin
8 Jan, 2013 – 5:02 am but I certainly enjoyed your “tutorial” as you put it. It is grounded, rational thinking that will eventually lead to perpetrator and cause eventually.
There are presumably those who are completely in the know. Those that have far more information. Then there is we, who have to deduce from the scraps that are in the public domain.
I came to the view long ago that this was a state sponsored killing, in contrast to what EM would have us believe was a banal act of unpremeditated violence. I did so first by a process of elimination of all available alternatives utilizing “Sherlock Holmes'” famous dictum: “If you have eliminated all the explanations, however probable, what you are left with must be the solution, however improbable it may seem”.
Second by the modus operandi employed.
Third by the reaction of British and French Governments in particular and an ominous silence from others.
Fourth by the proved misinformation (lies in common parlence) and inexplicable incompetence of investigation by the Frence authorities.
Other factors such as SAH’s personal and family background are suggestive of state involvement, as are his connections with strategic industries and war zones, though not conclusively so. His behaviour immediately prior to the incident would suggest anxiety and a planned meeting but this does not necessarily indicate it was a State involvement.
As regards Mollier we have far less to go on. Yes we have connections with national socialist political organisations and long term manual and managerial experience in a firm with dubious Iranian past connections and valuable future middle east ones, we have troubled personal and financial circumstance that might lead to susceptibility to threats or inducements, but beyond this there is little to suggest why he was targetted.
Targetted not as the French Prosecutor would have us believe as unfortunate collateral damage, as someone who stumbled upon a violent scene, but subject to the primary and most savage attack, suggesting indeed he was considered perhaps the biggest threat, the greatest traitor.
For this reason Mollier creates if anything the bigger challenge as to his role and connection with the Al Hillis. Your suggestion that material science could be the common ground is quite plausible, though how this would require a meeting under such circumstances is pure speculation, especially as information transfer, if that is what it was, is so easily effected by the internet or even a memory stick in the post.
Obtaining the cutting edge materials themselves might conceivably be a reason for a meeting but then we have the problem of Mollier’s three year absence. If he had access to the sought materials he could no longer guarantee easy access to them or their supporting documentation.
The other possibility is that Mollier was a mole either for domestic or foreign interests, and had knowledge of precisely what information had been passed and to whom and this was being tapped, but again this goes no way to explaining the remote meeting or what followed.
I could expand on these points if you wish, although I think probably my earlier ones have already done so. In this case there is deduction and induction. The former points ineluctably in the direction of principally two main suspects in my opinion for what it’s worth. The induction as to justification and explanation still remains tentative with many possibilities. The diving may yet throw up a pearl.
This clears the confusion about the disaster-monitoring satellites on the day of the Japan earthquake and tsunami in March 2011. Click on the link, then go to slide 16. There are no images at all. None. Of all those satellites cirulating the world on that day, what are the chances that not one would capture a photo of the area in question? How odd is that?
http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/smallsat/2012/all2012/7/
Now how could it be that all satellite systems in the world that monitor disasters and observe the earth, making multiple passes each day, taking photographs, would fail on the same day, and that day would coincidentally be the day of the the Japan earthquake and tsunami on March 11, 2011?
What could have caused such a complete and catastrophic failure of all the various satellite systems simultaneously, assuming that is what happened? Did this blackout only occur over Japan?
If someone did have a photo of that area on that day, it would be worth a lot, don’t you think?
Why haven’t we heard of this miraculous, simultaneous failure in the news media? Is it all a trademark fairy tale?
@Q
Interesting comments.
We may have been pondering the same “thing”.
Satellites (in the context of GPS) are “virtually” open source.
Many years ago the “selective availability” was turned off.
They had to really (the US military). Basically it was obsolete.
There are many reasons for doing this. Too numerous to list.
For a long time it has not been enough to provide “grade A” GPS coverage, but also to look at other ways of providing “selective availability” (S/A) in times of “crisis”.
Or rather “selective availability anti spoofing mode” (SAASM).
This is a huge industry. Especially the “spoofing” part.
Recent history is showing quite alot of “spoofing” activity.
That type of technology is very much in demand.
Was this what Al Hilli was working on ?
SAASM inside knowledge on specific satellites would give you an edge when developing “spoofing” measures.
Q
The reason no satellites caught the tsunami as it happened is because the ‘spy satellite’ information from geostationary satellites over Japan wouldnt be released.
The Disaster Monitoring satellites orbit the earth in the opposite direction, I believe and they need to acquire the required location as in the James Bond film Goldeneye. Which is how the following day 13 satellites were able to be over Japan, however only for maybe an hour each.
This monitoring works in worsening situations but not unfortunately in sudden events such as this. However with the latest satellites now launched I believe much larger areas are covered all the time, but I doubt worldwide yet.
NB I am no expert here.
Marlin
8 Jan, 2013 – 6:42 am again Marlin I agree with your general thinking including Mossad philosophy and method. However carrying out operations abroad and without approval from the respective governments has been proved not to be a barrier from Eichmann, through the revenge killings following the 1972 Munich Olympic Games, kidnapping Mordechai Vanunu to the numerous documented cases in Lebanon, Iran, Palestine and Gulf States prove. Nor does being a foreign national stand in their way if Gerald Bull in Brussels is anything to go by. There is a creeping insouciance exhibited by all murderers, including States and their agents, that appears to have infiltrated even the freedom loving President of the United States, who now not even apologises for the women and children killed or maimed in air strikes (53 in Yemen in 2012). They have become merely the acceptible collateral damage of undeclared war over someone elses territory. The London Times reports the official policy of “Kill or Capture” has now been replaced by “Kill and Kill”. In such circumstances the thresholds as to what is acceptible to whom and where shift ever upwards until no one is safe. That is why this case has the important inplications it has and why the public need to be informed precisely who did it and why.