Not Forgetting the al-Hillis 22278

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The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.

Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:

the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?

The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.

Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:

Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.

There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.

But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.

The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?

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22,278 thoughts on “Not Forgetting the al-Hillis”

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  • NR

    @ Q 16 Feb, 2013 – 4:30 pm
    “@Bluebird: You know that the other Williams, Russell, asked his wife in a note to take care of their cat, Rosebud.”

    In another strange murder/suicide that Felix found — the alleged murder/suicide, by shotgun, in Cromer, UK — between shooting his wife in one garden and then shooting himself in a neighbouring garden, Mr. Johnson, phoned his friends, asking them to take care of his dog — named Alfred, I think — then call police. He did not mention three nameless cats, which police fed for three days before someone took them.

    Animal clues, or animals’ name’s clues? Must we now learn everyone’s animal companion’s names? They aren’t on LinkedIn, but surely on Facebook. 🙂

  • NR

    @ Q 15 Feb, 2013 – 5:53 pm
    “@Straw44berry: One Russian official has said that the meteor was a U.S. weapon:”
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/02/15/russian_meteor_truthers_vladimir_zhirinovsky_claims_meteor_was_actually.html

    Now there has been a meteor over Northern California. The Russians are retaliating by testing one of their own meteor-like weapons. Or China or North Korea. 🙂

    In discussing the asteroid that passed very near earth yesterday, one of the TV networks summoned their self-styled insta-expert on such matters, a Phd. astronomer, to the studio.
    He calmly assured the public NASA had been tracking this one for a year (it had been accidentally discovered by another astronomer, not NASA), it behaved exactly as predicted, and there was nothing to worry about for at least 100 years, as NASA tracks all such things.

    The news anchor had the temerity to ask the expert, “What about the meteor that exploded over Russia?” and the expert replied, “Those are too small to track.”

  • Tim V

    Q
    16 Feb, 2013 – 4:30 pm

    Williams was born in Bromsgrove, England, to Cedric David Williams and Christine Nonie Williams (née Chivers). His family immigrated to Canada, where they moved to Chalk River, Ontario. His father was hired as a metallurgist at Chalk River Laboratories, Canada’s premier nuclear research laboratory.He obtained a Master of Defence Studies from the Royal Military College of Canada in 2004 with a 55-page thesis that supported pre-emptive war in Iraq, and in June 2004, he was promoted to lieutenant-colonel and on July 19, 2004, he was appointed commanding officer of 437 Transport Squadron at CFB Trenton, Ontario, a post he held for two years From December 2005 to May 2006, Williams also served as the commanding officer of Camp Mirage, a secretive logistics facility believed to be located at Al Minhad Air Base in Dubai, United Arab Emirates that provides support to Canadian Forces operations in Afghanistan. On February 8, 2010, he was relieved as the base commander at CFB Trenton due to criminal charges.

    Jan/Feb 2010 again?

  • Tim V

    Yup Q
    16 Feb, 2013 – 4:43 pm you are right Q. Thanks for correcting that stupid mistake I made. Hope ppl saw through it like you.

  • Tim V

    Just a little reminder about the early story.

    He clearly remembers seeing a green 4×4 vehicle and a motorcyclist speeding past him towards the scene which he arrived at minutes later, giving weight to the theory the shocking murders were carried out by more than one individual.

    His evidence is key to trying to solve the mystery of a horrific killing that has shocked France and baffled seasoned detectives.

    It emerged last night that the RAF veteran with “nerves of steel” is terrified of being identified.

    Colonel Bertrand Francois, head of the local gendarmerie, praised the Englishman for the way he acted.

    He not only put seven-year-old Zeinab Al-Hilli in the recovery position but turned the car’s engine off and then called the police.

    He has been unable to sleep since and is relying on police to protect his identity, said Mr Francois.

    He added: “His private life is over for the coming months. He can’t sleep. He can’t go out and shop.

    “We are doing everything to protect the man’s anonymity. Put yourself in his shoes – imagine what would happen if he goes public? His life will change from one day to the next and he doesn’t want that to happen.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/344705/I-saw-Alps-assassins-on-way-to-massacre

  • Q

    Did Saad al-Hilli engage the services of a law firm to get his family’s properties in Iraq back?

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/ben-zygier-asio-suspect-who-died-in-israeli-jail-20130213-2edid.html

    The law firm where Ben Zygier worked later merged with a company that does business in the Middle East.

    http://www.nortonrose.com/news/21663/deacons-australia-to-join-norton-rose-group

    “The Group comprises Norton Rose LLP and its affiliates. We have over 1300 lawyers operating from offices in Abu Dhabi, Amsterdam, Athens, Bahrain, Bangkok, Beijing, Brussels, Dubai, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Jakarta*, London, Milan, Moscow, Munich, Paris, Piraeus, Prague, Riyadh*, Rome, Shanghai, Singapore, Tokyo and Warsaw.

    With effect from 1 January 2010, Deacons Australia, a leading Australian law firm with offices in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Canberra and teams in Singapore, Jakarta and Ho Chi Minh City, will join Norton Rose Group. The enlarged Group will have over 1800 lawyers in 30 offices worldwide, 700 of whom will be based in Asia Pacific, and will form one of the best-resourced legal practices in the Asia Pacific region.

    * associate office”

  • Q

    @Tim V, 9:12 p.m.: I wonder if those characters in the custom van next door to Sylvie’s place were still hanging around in September 2012.

  • Marlin

    I would appreciate any help I could get tracking down the company in Italy where Zygier was supposed to work. Something about shipping electronic parts to Iran. You guys are so good at this –

    The information I have is that the company is located in Milan, Italy. The name was not disclosed by the Australian reporter Jason Koutsoukis but he did apparently track it down in 2009, and spoke to their CEO at even at some point, perhaps in 2010. Since the company was set up as a front, the CEO’s name is not likely to be a Jewish or Israeli one, and if Zygier, under any of his other names was employed there, they would have scrubbed the name out by now.

    Below is an excerpt from the Time article on this, summarizing parts of the timeline:

    http://world.time.com/2013/02/14/israels-prisoner-x-a-spy-caught-between-two-countries/

    “It’s unknown whether Zygier, who was 34, played any role at all in the Dubai assassination. But even if he did not, the Melbourne native apparently came under scrutiny in Australia as officials scoured the records of dual nationals in the wake of the killing. Zygier was in Australia at the time, studying for a master’s degree. The scrutiny could not have been pleasant, and it was not confined to official channels. After being interrogated by the Australian Security Intelligence Organization, he got a call from a reporter. Jason Koutsoukis indicated in the Sydney Morning Herald that intelligence sources had directed him to three men suspected of using their Australian citizenship as a cover to spy for Israel. Koutsoukis wrote that the men operated a “shell” company in Europe to sell electronic gear to Iran – something that, by several published accounts, Western intelligence agencies have indeed done, in order to sabotage Iran’s nuclear program through the sale of deliberately defective equipment.
    None of the three men or the company were named in the Feb. 27 , 2010 story, but Koutsoukis this week told Britain’s The Guardian that he spoke with Zygier at the time. “Who the f— are you?” Zygeier asked the reporter, denying everything. “What is this total bullshit you are telling me?”
    When Zygier returned to Israel, his bosses had him arrested, Israeli officials tell TIME. The officials offer no details, but indicated the contract agent no longer had the trust of his employers. Whether Zygier had broken during his interrogation by Australian intelligence, or spoken to reporters, or to anyone else, the Mossad regards any breach of confidentiality as akin to treason. (A senior Israeli legal official told reporters Thursday that Zygier “caused severe damage to the security of the country,” but offered no details.)” End Quote.

  • Marlin

    For those who are interested, here’s the timeline for the Ben Zygier case:

    January – february 2010 – Zygier is still in Australia. interviewed by the AISO at some point during that time.

    February 13-15: Accounts are coming out of Dubai detailing the passports used by Mossad operatives in the assassination (reason for uncertainty in date – time difference – hard to pin down which was the first disclosure from Dubai).

    Some time between Feb 14 and February 22, 2010: Zygier is contacted by jason K the reporter for The Age. he is asked about whether his was one of the passports used in the operation (that’s why it’s after Feb 14.

    February 24: ASIO is notified of Zygier’s arrest – according to them.

    Therefore, the time of the arrest must be sometime between February 16 – (assume a day or two after the Dubai’s disclosure are splashed all over the world, and at least 1-2 days AFTER he was contacted by jason K, necessitating a quick get-away from Australia) and February 23rd (the day before AiSO is notified he has been arrested. Surely Mossad is not THAT prompt as to notify on the same day!). So we have at most a one week window for his arrest February 16-23. I am leaning towards somewhere in the middle, around Feb 20.

    One almost feels sorry for the guy – he must have been really naive about the agency he worked for. he beats a hasty retreat to israel, in the hope of weathering the storm there, away from the AISO that are on to him, only to find out that the Israeli bosses burnt out on him big time. My theory is that the Israelis may have at first thought he was the one tattling on the passport business (especially since the idea that an Arabic police force could be competent and not so corrupt, was beyond their imagination). Then, during the interrogation they start finding out he has potentially compromised something much bigger than the Dubai business, may be Rigi, may be a spy network in lebanon, may be also an anti-Iran operation.

    The israeli social sites are BTW abuzz in rumors. Too bad it’s all in Hebrew…..

    Oh yes, one more interesting tid-bit: according to Feldman, the attorney who met with him a day or two before his death on Dec 15, Zyger’s wife, Maya, gave birth to a second daughter 4 days prior, ie, on or around December 11. Since it is highly unlikely that israel would allow conjugal visits during the first few weeks of a security arrest, she had either an unusually long pregnancy (42 weeks!) or it’s not Zygier’s child.

    Sorry I have kind of been side-tracked onto this Zygier business. Something tells me though 9another one of those hunches) that this will yet pay dividends for figuring out a few more things about Chevaline. Am extremely intrigued by the coincidence with Lachlan’s disappearance right around the time the Dubai assassination was getting on, the arrest of Rigi in pakistan and the busting of an israeli spy ring by Hezbollah later in the year. plus all these weird links to Monash university.

  • NR

    Like Chevaline and Osama bin Laden we’re getting the 72 versions — including a suggestion it’s all Australia’s fault ’cause they’re anti-semites.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-two-glaring-questions-at-the-heart-of-the-zygier-affair/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/zygier-did-not-commit-treason-was-arrested-because-he-might-have-leaked-info/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/justice-ministry-mulls-releasing-prisoner-x-dossier/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-israels-unique-situation-made-prisoner-x-incarceration-necessary/

  • NR

    @ Marlin 16 Feb, 2013 – 11:52 pm
    There’s little chance of finding this company, if it still exists, without more info.

    For example following allegations by Iran that Siemens supplied defective [exploding?] parts, “the Munich-based German firm denied the charge. It said its nuclear division has had no business links with Iran since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Siemens rejects the allegations and stresses that we have no business ties to the Iranian nuclear program,”

    They don’t say it could not have been done by an independent reseller/distributor/exporter of Siemens equipment.

    Going back to the Siemens/Stuxnet biz in the spring of 2010, there are hundreds of sizable world-wide companies, certified to resell Siemens PLC equipment and software, and the Milan company could be an affiliate of one of these. Or, in one story about the Fordow explosion it was stated lighting fixtures exploded, so it could be a company that supplied electronics to control industrial lighting.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20298-stuxnet-analysis-finds-more-holes-in-critical-software.html?full=true

    AUS DEM SPIEGEL Ausgabe 33/2007
    “Dummy Companies and Secret Accounts: Shady Siemens Payments Could Total over €1 Billion”
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/dummy-companies-and-secret-accounts-shady-siemens-payments-could-total-over-1-billion-a-499614.html

  • NR

    A number coincidence?
    26 Oaken Lane, Claygate; SAH’s
    36 Alderney Street, Pimlico; Gareth Williams

    Any good mysteries happen at a number 16 or 46?

  • NR

    @ bluebird 16 Feb, 2013 – 3:20 pm
    “Soros sold half of his gold investments last friday. Gold price down. What does he know what we don’t know?”

    “Russian President Vladimir Putin is buying gold… Russia’s central bank has bought 570 metric tons of gold bullion in the last decade… China’s central bank is the second largest buyer of gold over the last 10 years, but well behind Bank Rossii, Russia’s central bank.”

    Who is right? I’d bet with Russia/China.

    @Straw44berry
    There was a meteor over Cuba. The aliens are throwing rocks at us. Martians annoyed our undocumented alien arrived – no passport or visa – and is wandering around taking pictures without even asking.

  • bluebird

    New Zealand Mossad Passport farm:

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2004/04/23/israel-targets-new-zealand/

    I wonder what Zygier did do on September 11 2001? Was he one of the dancing Jews?

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9/11:Israel_did_it

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/02/14/ben-zygier-rip/

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/03/25/israels-passport-farm/

    I wonder whether or not this was the Australian Ben Allen whose cloned passport Zygier used. Cycling, triathlon once again and similar looks.

    http://benallentriathlete.com/news/page/2/

  • bluebird

    Marlin

    This is the closest i came to Zygier/Milano

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pREIvQIaOYgJ:https://pipl.com/directory/name/Zygier/Benjamin/+benjamin+zygier+pipl.com&cd=1&hl=iw&ct=clnk&gl=il

    There is a lot of unreleased and secret information regarding Zygier on that twitter account. Worth if you have time digging. I don’t have the time now.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/lrozen

    Interesting question NR posted before:

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2013/02/who-is-the-father-of-ben-zygiers-second-daughter.html

    I think that the Irozen twitter holds still publicly unknown key information.

  • Q

    @Ricki Tarr: Thanks for the link. Could there be more alphabet prisoners, and were there others before him? It seems entirely possible, and likely.

  • NR

    @ Q 17 Feb, 2013 – 5:08 pm
    “@NR: Did you say lights exploded at Fordow?”

    It was in a story I linked to at the time of the Fordow story. Allegedly the control room was monitoring the deep underground facility and first saw overhead light(s) explode in red/purple and some walls or ceilings damaged. They suggested the explosion was trigged by a variation in the power feed to the lights – voltage or frequency.

    The question was, if the story was false or only a small explosion, why put in that detail?

    This was in one of BB’s links above: “So it isn’t just Australian, New Zealand, and European passports the Israelis are stealing – there’s an Israeli “passport farm” churning out American passports, too.”

    Passport farms to add to the al Hilli chicken farm in Iraq and the creative Internet hatchery in Israel.

    Comment on Jewish communitie’s response to Zigier in Australia:
    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2013/s3691806.htm

  • Ricki Tarr

    To be honest I had mentioned passports in connection to the Al Hilli Case in the original thread a few times, especially with all the talk of Mossad involvement!

    The Mossad have rooms of passports copied from borrowed visitors or made by their experts. These passports have been exposed in high profile Mossad missions and widely reported from Canadians, English – Erica Chambers part in the death of Ali Hassan Salameh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Chambers, and even when the NZ
    earth quake hit and in other cases in NZ. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/8649223/Mossad-spy-ring-unearthed-because-of-Christchurch-earthquake.html

    I was suspicious in the Al-Hilli case when the passports where found in the car and also when RAF man was from NZ!

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