The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@ Mochyn68 22 Apr, 2013 – 12:46 pm
“Guys, a simple request ~ if you want to post about Boston, please do so, but go to the dedicated thread on that topic.
Let’s remember this thread is about not forgetting the al Hillis.”
Mochyn68, I disagree with your well-intentioned suggestion:
1. If we move over to the other two threads, the al Hillis will indeed be forgotten. The only reason this thread is still alive is these diversions into other events, pending the rare piece of new news on Chevaline. Once a thread is dead, it’s not easily restarted unless a mod privately emails the original participants.
2. Some, perhaps a majority of regular CM commenters, deplore conspiracy theories, and are arguing that point now. I read previously on other CM threads that there was a ban on 9/11 conspiracy theories in particular, but the old-timers couldn’t remember if this was a formal edict or a custom they’d adopted because it always degenerated into pro/con to the exclusion of the original subject.
3. Every other thread I’ve read on CM, after 50 or 100 very intelligent comments (they do know their history) ends up in nasty, predictable squabbles among the regulars, and in spite of their excellent educations, the insults barely rise above the level of those on thousands of other open forums, such as the rants section of CraigsList. Not an Oscar Wilde among them, not even YoMama jokes, or ancient, colorful Middle Eastern insults. Recall that for the first few months, this thread was beset by the same disputes, with constant appeals for the mod to ban this user or that.
4. Trolls patrol CM threads. One made a vile accusation against CM himself over some past personal affair. Others threaten to report CM to British authorities unless he or mods immediately remove some comment they disapprove of — usually something to do with Israel/Zionists/Jews.
So, I submit we stay here unmolested in our own quiet corner of CM and hope some new development will reinvigorate the alHilli discussion.
Wikileaks was rumored to be shipping servers to Sealand:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/01/31/1615249/wikileaks-to-ship-servers-to-micronation-of-sealand
Anyways, onward.
@ NR: Somehow in all these stories of murders, real estate transactions seem to play a role:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312281/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-EXCLUSIVE-Family-Boston-Marathon-bombers-widow-Katherine-Russell-puts-Rhode-Island-home-sale-day-police-shot-son-law-dead.html
Some people must have a certain ability to put tragedy aside and get on with their lives.
Regarding rants, why is it that rants on Muslim websites are a common thread? Both Saad al-Hilli and the Boston bomber(s) were said to have done so.
A slight aside about clan connections in the Arab world:
http://shoebat.com/2013/04/17/innocent-saudi-has-ties-to-several-al-qaeda-terrorists/
@ Q 22 Apr, 2013 – 3:27 pm
“@ Tim V: Perhaps the Mercedes and its driver were a recycled plot line. They carjacked a mystery man and robbed (delete: unrobbed) a 7-11.”
It wasn’t even a 7-11 that they (or someone) robbed/unrobbed. 7-11 Corp. denies it was one of their stores and the (strangely “canvassed”) pic of the younger bro (that the media continues to use without ever questioning its strangeness – nor do any conspiracy advocates — me plus one other commenter at infowars excepted) did not come from their cameras. Where did it come from?
@ Q 22 Apr, 2013 – 5:25 pm
“@ NR: Somehow in all these stories of murders, real estate transactions seem to play a role:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2312281/Tamerlan-Tsarnaev-EXCLUSIVE-Family-Boston-Marathon-bombers-widow-Katherine-Russell-puts-Rhode-Island-home-sale-day-police-shot-son-law-dead.html
Some people must have a certain ability to put tragedy aside and get on with their lives.”
A reader’s comment: “Oh stick around Kathy. We’re just starting to have fun with you.”
Others have mentioned the pic of the father-in-law giving media cameras what could be interpreted as a smug, self-satisfied smile, as if to say “Rid of the bastard”. Or did he frame-him-up or nark him to the Feds?
With contradictory rumours of the bros abject poverty (grotty flat)vs. some wealth (Mercedes) what does the widow stand to
inherit? Will we learn much later the deceased controlled a million Euro Swiss bank account? A joint account that transfers to her immediately? That would put a smile on pops-in-laws face.
Speaking of the grotty flat allegedly shared by the bros and which-is-not-a-crime-scene (like the Saudi student is-not-a-suspect) why would the authorities not engage in an extensive two-day fingertip search and call in the bomb squad, certainly justified here, if not at Claygate.
@NR: The unrobbed, un-7-11 seems to have been thrown into the plot for its possibilities as a number of significance to online sleuths. This failed completely. The “yo, anonymous dude, we just killed a cop, now we’re jacking your car and stopping to rob a convenience store before we set you free” story was a touch too much. It was even harder to believe the second version, which had the killers politely paying for gas after their rampage through Boston’s suburbs.
I predict record crowds will turn out from 11 a.m. to 7 p.m. on free Slurpee day, which occurs during the company’s anniversary celebrations on July 11 every year. Hardly worth sleuthing, although significant to fans of the beverage.
Q 3.14 who makes this stuff up?
“More than 100 police and FBI agents surrounded the floating, two-story home Wednesday night after its caretaker reported a hearing a gunshot when he approached the site about 3:45 p.m. EDT on Wednesday.
Four hours later, officers fired tear gas and six SWAT team members dressed in black flak jackets and armed with rifles and a shield moved in. They met no response and could later be seen leaving in a relaxed manner.
Police had earlier said the houseboat was found empty after an initial search. The body appeared to have been discovered during a later, more thorough search.
Barreto said the tear gas made the initial search more difficult.”
So a hundred cops couldn’t find a body on a house boat because tear gas made it difficult!!!!!!!
If only the French police had used tear gas.
sorry that shud have been
Q
22 Apr, 2013 – 3:01 pm
Very fishy Q
22 Apr, 2013 – 3:43 pm
Tim v.
Announced drills offer a great opportunity:
You could prepare everything because that is just a drill. If somebody gets caught accidentally, this is just a drill. Good excuse. If something went wrong: this was just a drill. Good excuse. If somebody who is involved talks in advance something like “false flag” then you can rightly say: it is just a drill, what gives?
Drills are a perfect excuse for innocent preparations. Mind the drills!!!!!!!
Mochyn, I totally understand your criticism, but all those events belong to each other. Those events are connected. Also this is one of the few forums without any trolls. There are just a few people posting but i can learn from every new post here. I still have to find a second one where this is the case like it is here: respect, understanding and common sense. Show me!
Case well put NR
22 Apr, 2013 – 3:43 pm. Anyway there’s nothing on the tele.
NR
22 Apr, 2013 – 7:10 pm”Speaking of the grotty flat allegedly shared by the bros and which-is-not-a-crime-scene (like the Saudi student is-not-a-suspect) why would the authorities not engage in an extensive two-day fingertip search and call in the bomb squad, certainly justified here, if not at Claygate.”
The pictures of the alleged “bomber’s” flat, is in stark contrast to the FBI approach on the street and clearly there was no shortage of personnel. The circumstance of the press photos simply cannot be explained. It is also spookily similar to the post killing free for all at Chevaline.
It is these inexplicables that sew the seeds of doubt, which when linked to all the others start to build a convincing case of official manipulation.
@ Tim V 22 Apr, 2013 – 7:59 pm
“Q 3.14 who makes this stuff up?”
“More than 100 police and FBI agents surrounded the floating, two-story home Wednesday night… ”
Andrew Cunanan’s father in the Philippines, was convinced his son was used by government agencies, necessitating his termination before he spilled some beans. Many others agreed.
He was essentially a high-end rent boy, much money, far beyond what a high-end rent boy could conceivably earn, five-star life, big spender. No serious investigation where that came from.
The Muslim community could take lessons from the Gay community on PR regarding embarrassing members. Shun them, deny ever knowing them, loudly denounce their monstrous deeds, quickly call for imaginative, draconian punishments.
For a laugh, read how Gays handle community members who “go off the reservation” (apologies in advance to offended Native Americans) and portray Gays as anything less than harmless Stepin Fetchits (apologies in advance to offended African Americans), doing mildly amusing, stereotypically Gay things that could offend no one. Not a murderer or cannibal or terrorist in that group.
Here’s how they dealt preemptively with Bret Easton Ellis, author of “American Psycho”.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bret-easton-ellis-ive-been-443387
My vote….We stay here.
I’m reading, but not posting as nada to add.
“Announced drills offer a great opportunity” (Blue).
Yes they do indeed. We see that in “fighter patrols” and NORAD Ops pre (and on the day of) 9/11.
We also see that on the day of the London bombings.
The “P”IRA never had such luck !
Interesting NORAD Ops concentrate on the “injects” coming over Alaska and Canada. This is pretty much the the same as the “Phantom” f4 missions over the North of Scotland (The Russian Bear “Long Range Bomber” would probe the air defences of the UK).
I only knew some older pilots that flew F4’s. Do we know anyone else ????
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c93_1311284043
Here is a “rare” (the rporter said rare, but they weren’t rare) but they were not rare as 2 F4 Sqn’s were QRA (Quick Reaction Alert Sqn).
Note that the QRA’s operated in the “real world”.
NORAD dicided it was better (as it didnt happen) to do such “probes” via “plots”.
NORAD did plots ! What is real and what is not ?
And what can you hide on “plots” ?
Clearly a “Mil” would not put out a “squawk”, so it would be ID’d via “Identification friend or foe” (IFF). But you could just “invent” a “squawk” on a civil radar….and then turn it off.
(did they do that ? NORAD could.. And no squawk means ID via IFF, but if its not there ?????).
Whenever there are clear breaches of protocol, as there was on 9/11 in relation to getting the fighters up to intercept as soon as the aircraft stopped responding that ALWAYS happens, and similar confusion on 7/7 which delayed emergency services getting to the injured, it shouts warning. We had similar at Chevaline, the latest of many being the unlikely story that the forensics expert handled and contaminated DNA evidence – the expert of all people! And now at Boston the crime scene flat not treated as a crime scene at all. Such lapses in highly trained, military style organisations, committed to doing everything by the book, can only be explained by intentional intervention to the contrary by someone in higher authority. No middle or lower ranking individual would dare! Of course there is always the possibility of incompetence – but incompetence results in condemnation, and not when Presidents and Prime Ministers and half the worlds press are taking an interest surely?
That was in response to yours James
22 Apr, 2013 – 11:50 pm btw
Reporter on US Fox News (Law & Order crowd, upholders of the constitution when convenient) calls for terrorist to be skinned alive. Easily arranged if they pack him in the next shipping container of $100s heading south of the border.
Story on Tamerlan’s widow at parents’ home. They claim she and they were totally unaware of monster hubby until pic on TV. Lawyer says he’s arranging for authorities to interview widow, apparently at her convenience.
Would that happen if widow and parents were Muslims from the get go, ethnic or otherwise, and not upper class white? They’d drag everyones’ ass downtown immediately while they searched the parents’ home — bomb squad, drilling holes in walls.
Have they searched the Cambridge, MA, white shingle home which she shared with her late husband — bomb squad, drilling holes?
They’ve searched the surviving bro’s dorm room and found a white cap and black jacket that “could be” the ones worn in the vids. And ball bearings! No mention of the bomb squad and drilling holes, or finding traces of other vital ingredients. Where is the bomb factory or assembly closet?
More conclusive evidence is that he reacted wrongly when the first bomb went off. Has anyone watched vids to see how agents and Craft people reacted? If they weren’t properly surprised it means they’re guilty too.
The suspect has been read his rights and is fully aware. Responded in part by nodding head. Conveniently confessed to the atrocities by saying he and bro learned bomb-making-for-dummies on the Internet. If he’s already legally confessed why do they repeat the confession to AnonCarjackVictim as part of the overwhelming evidence?
Wasn’t the guvmint supposed to be monitoring all the Internets to catch such things? And if not the guvmint then the loony, amateur, ever-vigilant cyber-cops who have full access to all citizens ISPs?
Weren’t we told a few days ago it was unlikely novice bomb-makers could do what these two did without blowing themselves apart — they surely attended terrorist training abroad?
All clear. Nothing more to see. No 12 person sleeper-cell to blow you up. Go about your profitable businesses. We’ll give the Stasi, uh, 4Chan/Reddit/Vigilant/CyberCop/CitizenSpy nutters better access to your on-line activities to prevent anything like this from every happening again. BTW we’ll need some large fraction of a trillion dollars to fully protect you.
Heard that Canada’s guvmint used the Boston bombings as an excuse to fast-track new anti-terrorist legislation, and that was before today’s news of their own terrorists financed by AQ in Iran.
There’s now a booking pic of Tamerlan from an arrest in 2009 and still they couldn’t make a match with facial recognition systems. Guvmint should demand full refund from whoever sold them that crap. Of course politicians would need to return all bribes. Don’t know how they refund the coke and hos.
Here’s a more humane solution than skinning the terrorist alive. Since Salem is only 15 miles from Boston, upon his release from hospital, drag him through the streets up there and use the dunking stool.
“… in the city of Leiden, Holland , more than 20 schools were told to stay closed on Monday in response to the threat posted on internet forum 4chan*… The threat was picked up by Swiss police during internet checks at the weekend…”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22244538
[*See previous posts]
So, the Swiss are monitoring the Internet for loonatics. At least someone is, just not the NSA or FBI.
This report on recent terrorist arrest in Canada has sidebar explaining players in the game.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22258191
I barely understand the subtleties of the various sects. At top level what is the distinction between Islam and Muslim? I thought Islam was the religion and Muslims were followers of that religion, but some take Islam or Islamist as equivalent to radical Islam or terrorism.
I do not know whether or not this is true and the source could be fake. However, this is worth to further investigate.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/04/saudi-person-of-interest-is-osama-bin-ladens-son-2627068.html
Saudi ‘Person Of Interest’ Is Osama Bin Laden’s Son HAMZA IS KNOWN AS THE “CROWN PRINCE OF TERROR,” AND VOWED REVENGE VS. USA.HAMZA IS KNOWN TO BE “THE SPITTING IMAGE OF HIS FATHER, OSAMA BIN LADEN.”“SAUDI STUDENT” WAS TACKLED FLEEING BOSTON MARATHON, THEN HOSPITALIZED WITH “SEVERE HAND BURNS AND SHRAPNEL IN BACKSIDE OF LEG.
”Hamza is the son of Khairiah Sabar of Saudi Arabia, one of Bin Laden’s three wives who were living in the Abbottabad compound.[11] Interrogation of the surviving wives of Osama Bin Laden by Pakistani intelligence after the raid on the Abbottabad revealed Hamza was the only person missing. He was not among those killed or injured. The raid conducted by the SEAL team was thorough: infrared technology, as well as ground troops, remained confident nobody inside the compound had escaped. There were no hidden exit tunnels from the compound.[12][13]In a letter confiscated in the raid, written by bin Laden and addressed to his “Chief of Staff” Atiyah Abd al-Rahman, bin Laden mentions his desire that Hamza would be educated in Qatar as a religious scholar so that he could “refute the wrong and the suspicions raised around Jihad.”[14] The same letter revealed that Hamza did not escape the raid because he was not even present in Abbottabad.[15][16] Letters from the compound also confirmed that Osama was grooming Hamza to be his heir apparent following the death of Hamza’s older brother Saad in a 2009 US drone strike.[17][18]The congressional source told TheBlaze it was unclear as to why representatives from Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) would be unaware of this information. Earlier on Thursday, an official with ICE said it was “categorically false” that Alharbi had ever been considered for deportation.The congressional source, however, said the information sent to Congress showed that a file was created on “Abdul Rahman Ali Al Harby” at 4 p.m. on Tuesday by an official with the National Targeting Center, a counterterrorism sub-agency of U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Department of Homeland Security. The file stated that the individual is “linked to the Boston bombing” and was to be processed for revocation of his visa based on national security grounds, the congressional source revealed.
“On April 15, the day the Tsarnaevs set off the pressure-cooker bombs on Boylston Street, there were 40 bombings and shootings across Iraq that took the lives of 75 and wounded 350. No one in the outside world knows the names of those who set off these bombs, and no one cares. And Baghdad was not locked down.”
“How, then, when these brothers are now as well-known as Timothy McVeigh, if not Osama bin Laden, and they committed an atrocity that mesmerized America for a week, and they forced a lockdown of one of our greatest cities, can it be said that they failed – as terrorists? Worse may be yet to come.”
http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/did-the-brothers-tsarnaev-fail/
The above is not about moral equivalence, just practicality. What is the ongoing celebration about? Nothing was won.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/22/beck-breaks-exclusive-information-on-saudi-national-allegedly-connected-to-boston-bombings/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/22/6-of-the-most-interesting-things-we-learned-from-the-boston-bomber-affidavit/
Good piece on propaganda:
http://www.infowars.com/media-magic-not-one-angry-person-in-boston/
[Sorry, they’re all right side links. I’ll read dailykos tomorrow]
BTW the UK Mirror story re 12 person sleeper cell is still on their site, they didn’t scrub it, but Drudge removed link. Wonder what happened to the dirty dozen?
Putting aside the total failure of government facial recognition systems, Tamerlan at least had a huge photo presence and not all of it could have been private, especially the boxing pics.
News orgs and netziens using Google image-matching should have picked up a match. Or were they all concentrating on names we typically associated with terrorists – Middle Eastern, Pakistani, etc? Or was Google image-matching coincidentally out-of-service during the hunt?
@ James 11:50 p.m.: Drills like the one in Resolute, Nunavut that coincided with the crash of charter jet, and subsequent death of a leading arctic researcher, among others (in advance of a major scientific summit on the Arctic, wherein Canadian government scientists were banned from speaking to the press)? More on the activities in the area, and the crash itself, which I’ve posted about previously:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2011/08/21/mb-north-resolute-bergmann-crash.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2011/08/20/north-air-crash.html
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/canada-opens-arctic-to-nato-plans-massive-weapons-buildup/
From the second link:
“Local leaders in shock
Ralph Alexander, Resolute’s acting senior administrative officer, said at first he wondered if the crash was not part of the Operation Nanook military exercises taking place around the community.
A mock air-disaster response exercise was scheduled to begin early Monday morning.
“With all that planning for an exercise, and then a real crash happens — it’s odd,” he told CBC News.”
@ Tim V: One website claimed that the 9/11 NATO exercises involved a certain pilot of infamy, Russell Williams, who was a Lt-Col. with the Canadian Air Force at the time (now know as Royal Canadian Air Force). Williams had worked in electronic warfare early in his career, and had made a trip to an arctic electronic warfare station in the midst of his stalking/killing spree. The website in question has not backed down on its claims, and is still out there on the web.
@ NR: From the website you linked above:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/19/saudi-news-site-michelle-obama-visited-saudi-national-in-hospital-on-thursday/
What is it with dentists getting caught up in world events?
Boston bomber charged with using WMD:
http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/22/dont-panic-if-the-boston-bomber-is-charged-with-wmd-use/
Perhaps all those farmers who are thinking about using a gopher blaster this spring should reconsider:
http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-care.com/gopher-blaster.html
@ NR: Is watching trains now a crime? There are train watchers who make a hobby of photographing trains that interest them. Some drive across borders to do so, carrying cameras in black bags. It’s called trainspotting. Some limit their interests to certain types of historical locomotives, some ride the trains, and some photograph them at various points along their routes. Some will drive the roads, tracking the trains in order to photograph a specific train on the same day at various points on its route. It’s a niche hobby, and not uniquely limited to the U.K. as the wiki article says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trainspotting_%28hobby%29#Trainspotting
@ Q 23 Apr, 2013 – 6:31 pm
“With all that planning for an exercise, and then a real crash happens — it’s odd,” he told CBC News.”
A US Navy training exercise gone wrong, or a terrorist attack?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800_alternative_theories
“Unidentified radar tracks: One of the first widely reported criticisms of the official investigation was by Pierre Salinger, who on November 7, 1996, held a press conference in Cannes, France. He stated he had proof that TWA 800 was shot down by friendly fire, and the incident was being covered up by the government…”
In that case the conspiracy theories gained so much traction the guvmint asked/ordered/blackmailed late-night TV comics to mercilessly mock poor, old, deluded Pierre night after night with lame-ass, totally unfunny jokes that it was obvious they were embarrassed to deliver.
The CIA came up with a lame-ass explanation of how 100 eyewitnesses who saw something streak up and hit the plane, were subject to an optical/aural illusion and they really saw the burning fuel falling down.
Also: http://twa800.com/