The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Going on from the “Martin Interview”, it is common practice to put the relatives on camera to appeal for the publics help…after such a dreadful attack.
Often it is to watch the “crack”. How could theu after all refuse a request to find the killer(s) of their loved ones.
And yet this has not happened.
Nothing from the Mollier clan. Nothing from the Al Hilli clan.
Would such an appeal by the relatives and police by contra to a “gagging order” ? I imagine so.
If Mollier was indeed “not good”, then a gagging order would indeed be of benefit to the party he represented…and his family.
Hmmm !
A further thought: why didn’t the Tsarnaev brothers steal a car from the garage down the street from their house, instead of jacking Danny’s Mercedes? Oh, right, as James pointed out, Mercedes are their preferred ride.
@James 4:41 pm: Right you are. Families members are sometimes trotted out in front of TV cameras to make a public appeal. In one case I recall, the spouse was a suspect, and every word and facial expression was subjected to analysis by police.
It would be risky for the police to do this for the sake of appearances, if there is something they don’t want to get out.
This applies to all of the families of the deceased, don’t you think?
ECHELON !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
Been done before.
“An article in the US newspaper Baltimore Sun reported in 1995 that European aerospace company Airbus lost a $6 billion contract with Saudi Arabia in 1994 after the US National Security Agency reported that Airbus officials had been bribing Saudi officials to secure the contract”
Boeing won that !
They also got more 777’s into Dubai !
Next BIG contract….next new plane. British Airways.
52 747’s due out of service.
So are they going for Boeing again or Airbus.
Old news about prison ships and rendition:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/02/terrorism.terrorism
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/21/ciarendition.usa
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/09/05/us-torture-and-rendition-gaddafi-s-libya
There’s even a rap song, “I Found Love on a Prison Ship” with reference to Lindh.
Ghost prisoners remind me of Prisoner X.
Could that ship-tracking technology of SSTL’s be used for military prison ships?
Pirates are tracked, but who’s tracking the prison ships?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18889594
Q
Looking back through a few murders…it is a tactic that is often used.
Of course they have questioned the individuals and have their motivation for doing so. Yet here there is no motivation !
Yet the French say “It is zee family where zee murderer est” !
Then again “It est zee alone volf we seek” !
Crackers !
Forget tracking a ship !
Track a phone call. Listen in. Record it.
Hence people have “meetings” in “hard to track” places.
“The News….
A former Airbus worker and his family have been found shot dead along with a French employee of Boeings Titanium division, who was a three year sabatical.
The location of the shooting was in remote woodland near to a Boeing plant where the French employee worked.
The scene was discovered by a passerby, a former Boeing pilot for Britsh Airway.
Pictures at Eleven”
Now that would have caused a stir. Any facts untrue in that piece to camera ?????
@ Q — re Reuters meth ingredients and thefts at Waco fertilizer plant. Odds are if that gang is involved they would do some cookery in a conveniently unguarded plant as well.
@ Tim V: The pic of deceased TT is not an autopsy pic. It was taken in the hospital hallway after ER released body to police. ER people on web commented on it and said some items, like either large gauge needles or the marks left by those (can’t remember which) are consistent with ER efforts, and the original ER doc said the large opening in left side, was from ER use of retractors.
Re re-search of bombers grotty flat, now alleged to be bomb factory or at least assembly kitchen (fits Inspire mag’s, “How-to-make-bombs-in-mom’s kitchen”). The place previously searched and nothing found. Then opened to media and who-knows-what random visitors. Of what use is any evidence collected now. Any random framer — police or an outraged citizen — could plant stuff.
Of what we’ve seen of searches, the only ones where techs used bunny-suits were original bomb sites, the boat and the finger-search of the landfill garbage dump. Others were street clothes; no worries about contamination.
The Boston Booom ! Do you want to see what a lie looks like ?
Okay, DO NOT watch the speaker (FBI). Watch ONLY the Chief of Police at the rear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXg1uwFvfNg
The question is raised about “contractors” on scene.
The Spokesman refuses to answer the question.
Then the chief…looks at the man…..and touches his nose !
Now you may think James has gone mad ! But before you do, just check out any book you wish, any google site or any authority on the subject of “tells” in poker !
The Chief of police….”lies” for the spokesman.
@ James 3 May, 2013 – 7:30 pm
“The question is raised about “contractors” on scene.
The Spokesman refuses to answer the question.”
“Then the chief…looks at the man…..and touches his nose !”
“Now you may think James has gone mad ! But before you do, just check out any book you wish, any google site or any authority on the subject of “tells” in poker !
“The Chief of police….”lies” for the spokesman.”
Haven’t seen vid yet or read up on poker tells, but wonder if “touch nose” is also listed in guide to Masonic signs and signals? I found one Masonic sign — murders under a bridge, though victims not directly under, but a timing clock bridge / photogs bridge are mentioned in stories.
There’s Copley Square, now need a compass and circle, an all-seeing-eye and hopefully a pyramid. There’s revered Paul Revere, a Mason who’d be honoured on Patriot’s day. We need two Jugalo in the form of tramps or clowns. Wait, there’s the balloon lady, allegedly guiding the bombers. She represents a clown.
NR
It could be, who knows….BUT it is “tell” of a lie.
He feels nervous due to the request that had been presented to “the other guy”. He knew the answer. The nerves take over…..
And there you have the “classic” tell. The lie.
I knew guys that failed interviews because of their reactions.
When presented with a “starter” of soup, never ask for salt before tasting it ! It shows you’re reacting not to “the soup”, but because you “always do that”.
You’ll fail as a pilot flying V VIP’s. Because you reacted first without knowing what was going on.
Guess the Chief (not in the Lime Light) gave the game away. The pressure wasn’t on him….but he should have known how to react.
But then again, if that “thing” had been “thrown on him” (which it was) he had been told what had gone on….but just couldn’t “hack it”.
It’s a lie. Contactors were there. Therefore “whatever happened”, ita “fail” !
Like “the Martin interview”. Fail !
NR…
You’ll like this better.
Foget what is said (we know that) forget Mrs Bush shifting about.
watch her eyes (do they get bigger !).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfwHYSpoIEs
NR @10:30 AM – yes, I saw that comment by Peter. MZT herself seems to have liked it. May be now, after Alex’s drive, and the sudden “disclosure” of the BMW 4×4 that-is-not-forestry-vehicle, it becomes harder and harder to avoid looking at the broader cover-up aspects. There’s just too much swept under the carpet too blatantly, especially the very obviously glaring fact – just what was AH doing at the Martinet with a car full of ladies,not so favorably inclined to “roughing it out in the woods”?
maybe now, with the timeline for the drive up the Combe d’Ire becoming more fixed at no less than 8-10 minutes, given the fact that there’s room for just one car to go at a time and the poor condition of the road, someone will also ask some questions about the time stamp so veryhelpfully provided for the viewing of the pretty house at Doussard – 3:15PM it was, wasn’t it? so how do we get from there to the time of the murder at around 3:30PM, give or take a few minutes? and if 3:15PM is wrong, why was that time given out, and just what is right?
And what’s up with the deathly quiet from the Al Hilli relatives, if that family was a mere “mask”? wouldn’t people be screaming to high heaven over at the UK? wouldn’t there be more pictures of the unfortunate lady victims? wouldn’t someone say something about the racial profiling and the incredible cold-bloodedness of a killer willing to sacrifice a car load of people just to get one SM?
May be soon the logical thinking people at MZT would start asking the most critical question of all – why would WBM deny he made the call at 3:48PM if there’s no compelling reason for him to do so (if he did make that call) – whether or not he was involved in the killings personally, came upon it happening and/or arrived when it was all over? Isn’t this the starting point for the supposition of “agencies” involvement in the plot?
Since I am one of them who hold on to the state agency plot, possibly including a double cross with the brits caught by something of an unpleasant surprise, it makes sense that the sudden disclosure of the BMW with RHD, 8 months after the fact, is just another indication that the UK side is still unhappy and making that known. In which case, watch for more ‘surprising” late disclosures from that corner, just enough to rankle the French and the would-be clueless inspector Clouseau. Sure it rankles us too, amateur detectives working in the dark, but who cares about the public? certain individuals who read this forum – and MZT – are probably entertained with the flurry of speculations. or may be they were just getting a bit bored and wanted some of us intrepids to jump right back in and do our clown act for a touch more amusement?
On that last matter – and surely Tim V will concur – it’s probably important to put up a good show. That’s what’s keeping the board going – hopefully some PTB reps have gotten addicted to the show and were distressed that some of us – hapless performers – were starting to peel off. “how about we give them the 4×4?”, says one of our fans. “But make it a BMW, not a Pajaro -that should keep them hopping”, says another. “may be make it a RHD for the likes of Marlin and Tim V who keep propping the British-are-pissed-off’ angle?” pipes in a third. “white or dark?” says the Peugot (sp?) owning french “field rep”. “dark, for sure – that should pull the frenchie chain – with their super-silly forestry vehicle ploy”, interjects the first one, again. “Dark 4×4 BMW with RHD it is then”, says the boss. “got popcorn?” says the intern (who is really a seasoned Mossad, pretending to be SIS trainee. “This better work”, says the boss – “if at least Marlin, James and Ferret are not back pronto, we’ll just have to call the australians again! and that’s like, so passe”. “What about Sorensen – do we still need him for a lite-motif?” says mata Hari (who is actually quite a nice elderly lady with strong upper class accent. “No!” they all scream in unison. Curtains rise, and on the stage we have a fine looking dark green 4×4 BMW, the spitting image of a forestry pajaro.
Marlin….
“just what was AH doing at the Martinet with a car full of ladies,not so favorably inclined to “roughing it out in the woods”?”
There were some others that day !
But there are other questions.
Why do the French (and UK) police discribe Martin as “ex RAF” ?
He’s twenty years with British Airways.
What bike did Mollier ride up that hill ?
If a “road racer”, why go up there.
Why was a public appeal not done for a UK plated 4×4 ?
Martin could have said that in his interview.
Latest Boston: Main media gushingly relays reports “from their police sources” who say bros [previously searched and open to public] apartment now contains bomb residue on kitchen and bathroom sinks and bathtub! And, and, and… they say Dzhokhar confessed to changed plans from [easily detonated] suicide bombs on July 4th to [complicated toy-car remote detonators] for the Marathon only one or two days before the Marathon.
They present this steaming pile unfiltered, lumps and all. Not the slightest indication of incredulity. Not even a raised eyebrow, let alone an actual question.
Oh well, CNN did ask Hero Jeff how he looked Tamerlan right in the eye when the latter was wearing sunglasses. That is the whole extent of investigative reporting on Boston. Very much like Chevaline.
Thanks for that NR
3 May, 2013 – 8:56 am. Perhaps we’re all dreaming and could benefit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1rLjA0Ti3w
He is a nutter tho ! Hence I never pop over there.
Q 3.35 “The last record of tampering was in October 2012, when a 911 caller reported an odor “so strong it can burn your eyes.” The firm dispatched Cody Dragoo, an employee often sent after hours to shut leaking valves and look into break-ins. That night, he shut off the valve but reported it had been tampered with.
Two weeks ago, Dragoo, 50, was among those killed in the blast while responding to the fire.”
Don’t you think it quite bizarre given the billions spent apparently countering the “terrorist threat” that a plant storing hundreds of tons of a favourite explosive (ammonium nitrate)actually used in one of the biggest domestic outrages and with a history of theft and tampering, wasn’t even required to have a perimeter fence or a man with a dog? Doesn’t this just illustrate the vacuous nature of the government hype?
Nose touching reminds me of the hand signals in baseball. Someone has already done some interpreting:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/11/08_signals.html
All of a sudden I’m noticing every BMW X5 and Mercedes on the roads. They’re more common than I thought. Mundane observation, nothing more.
@ Tim V 4 May, 2013 – 12:06 am
“Thanks for that NR 3 May, 2013 – 8:56 am. Perhaps we’re all dreaming and could benefit?”
They used a lucid dreaming mask on Dzhokhar during the 16 hour pre Miranda warning interrogation in hospital. 🙂
Small apology to CNN. Next hour a reporter did say, albeit politely, how improbable it was the bros changed plans 1-2 days before Marathon. I’m sure CNN is now deleted from police leakers contact list. Charges of failure to accurately disseminate propaganda pending.
@ Q: Your link to democraticunderground.com above is well worth reading 10 years later. Nothing has changed.
NR 6.23 “@ Tim V: The pic of deceased TT is not an autopsy pic. It was taken in the hospital hallway after ER released body to police. ER people on web commented on it and said some items, like either large gauge needles or the marks left by those (can’t remember which) are consistent with ER efforts, and the original ER doc said the large opening in left side, was from ER use of retractors.”
If you notice, the incisions are reciprocal and symmetrical on both sides of the body. They are in line with the ribs so if used for retractors presumably to hold the ribs apart to get access to the lungs. Was this done in some life-saving attempt or post mortem? The iodine type staining to the wound edge would suggest life but there is no evidence of bleeding in contrast to another evident wound. It is hard to think of a life saving procedure that would involve this and certainly not carried out by first responders so I think it more likely post mortem even if prior to formal autopsy. What could justify such action. The only one that comes to mind would be the removal of foreign objects such as bullets if it wasn’t for organ samples. Now why would that happen if as you say the photo was taken before the formal autopsy. Then there is the very obvious redness of the face and head which is unlikely to be surface blood staining. It looks more like this:
“Petechial hemorrhages or ecchymoses in the skin of the face and/or in eyelids and/or conjunctivae are one important feature in postmortem diagnosis of lethal strangulation. On the other hand, petechial bleedings can occur in various causes of death, especially in cases of neck or thoracic compression, they can occur in acute cardiac failure, as a result of blood or skin diseases or as a postmortem phenomenon.” So will the autopsy report be made public?
The question is what actually killed TT after being photographed naked in police custody quite able to walk and free of injury. Was it his brother running over him, or gun shot wounds, or other wounds or strangulation or suffocation or some other cause? Or did he manage to hang himself in the shower?
Tim V
Who knows… !
But someone washed the dead dude down, that’s a given.
Since the Korea kid shot up Virginia Tech (after Col Um Bine !) America seems to want to get it’s people “engaged”.
Infowars with his gun carrying crew Vs “the poor and struggling”.
Far Right Vs Far Left.
And that’s a good thing if you’re making money.
Of course you can opt for option C. And that’s “peace to all”. Then you don’t make cash.
The money is where it’s at. And I don’t mean the Privado Jet with a Wall Street dude type cash. I mean the “serious” money. Those that NEVER get seen (and theyre not even royal).
In Boston there was a bomb. Who planted it, who knows. Who got their legs blown off…who knows ! It is (and planned as such) to be a great PR job.
They should have wrapped a leg in a US flag. That would have been good. Blood. A leg (the hospitals have a few spare I am sure). Lots of blood.
Oh yes, “infowars man” would call it a “FAKE” and the FBI would shout “It’s Merica”….and all that rubbish.
Christ…you can blow up a building in Americe…and cause a conspiracy….and still have a war !
It’s a joke. Conspiracy Patriots Vs will Love NYC Patriots. Who cares. It’s a lie. Just depends which lie you believe.
NR
3 May, 2013 – 9:13 pm The guy standing behind to his right is worth checking out as well. Notice how when the awkward question is asked he has an involuntary head movement – looking towards the floor. If I was FBI I’d say that was highly incriminating – denial/ignoring the question entirely; rubbing nose (classic stress/lying); looking down averting gaze from the three principals.
Oh gosh but they ARE FBI arn’t they?
@ Tim V 4 May, 2013 – 12:44 am
“Don’t you think it quite bizarre given the billions spent apparently countering the “terrorist threat” that a plant storing hundreds of tons of a favourite explosive (ammonium nitrate)actually used in one of the biggest domestic outrages and with a history of theft and tampering, wasn’t even required to have a perimeter fence or a man with a dog? Doesn’t this just illustrate the vacuous nature of the government hype?”
Months ago, some official reminded grateful citizens how the gov. stopped the shoe and underwear bombers (don’t know if Times Square bomber was included). I’m thinking, “No you didn’t. All of those explosions were thwarted by shoddy bomb-craft, and the two on aircraft were stopped short of becoming deadly fires by passengers.”
Which makes it more unlikely the bros suddenly advanced to experts in six months with or without training or DIY magazine articles. Latest reports say AQ’s “Inspire” mag. is now found on Dzhokhar’s laptop. Wouldn’t that be a prime web site (honey-pot?) monitored by sundry agencies? Another epic fail, along with facial recognition systems.
Don’t stay away so long next time Marlin
3 May, 2013 – 9:50 pm. I’m sure there’s a book and film rights in this for us somewhere. You’ve made a good start on the script already. To think if we hadn’t had that little spotted 3.48 error, (was I the first to flag it up? – oh sorry my ego is getting the better of me) we might never have got to where we are now. Still no answers other than the official story/investigation is BS.
As has been noted elsewhere, much of the US security operation in Iraq was privatised and sub-contracted to Blackwater. The precedent has already been set. Not only were their actions murderous, they were immunity from any form of legal action. Were those Blackwater guys on the streets of Boston complete with quasi uniforms, huge back packs and communication ear pieces or were they Government agents or members of the armed services. The picture post explosion of a back pact bears a striking resemblance to one of theirs it has to be said.
So these people are effectively immune from prosecution. If they are, as the Italian case illustrates, the US won’t give them up. They are not constrained by any military code or subject to Courts Marshall. They have significant links back to Iraq including operations that included fatal shootings. They kill for money. They afford arms length deniability. What better group to carry out the sort of operation at Chevaline with massive high-tech back-up and French approval/assistance?
@ James 4 May, 2013 – 2:14 am
“Tim V Who knows… ! But someone washed the dead dude down, that’s a given.”
Good point. Are ERs equipped to wash bodies? I can see the turmoil in that ER that night, but isn’t there a procedure to release a body — chain of evidence for removed/loose bullets, clothing, gunshot residue, etc. Would ER ordinarily release a body to police, unbodybagged, and would police leave it unguarded in a hallway. Opportunity for anyone to add/remove evidence.
Tsarnaev family, who now has control of body, is planning own autopsy. They’d better work fast. Media helpfully names each funeral home as body is moved and vigilante torch-n-pitchfork flash-mob follows along. US Navy could offer a proper Muslim burial at sea.
Must go to bed but before I do did you see BBC interview with British Defence Secretary today (yesterday now) with the AMERICAN flag behind him?!!!!
This is an interesting one. “DT will die, either from his wounds or by execution”! Well I never! Three Jewish friends murdered on tenth anniversary of 9/11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=myWwoIFvGfI&feature=endscreen NOTE WEB ADDRESS!
http://www.debka.com/ appears to be Israeli site.
According to Debka Iranian and Israeli troops are massing at the SYRIAN border! Light the blue touch paper and stand clear.