The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Okay…….
This is like ATC in “Mass Cow”. No one hears your call !
So, guys, is this an exchange of ideas ? Or are we becoming Ickist’s !
One question (ping) and nothing back ?
Tim V wrote “a lot” !
Have we become a “saga holiday club” like the “Come to France” lot on MZT ???
No holidays here, James. No one wants to go to France, esp. Annecy.
Tim
Interesting summary.
Whenever you mention Olaf Palme,then never forget Eva Rausing’s death in London.
Whenever you mention Iran Contra, then never forget that Ruslan Tsarnaev’s father in law was standing in the “middle” of Iran Contra.
Most unresolved events are connected to each other, most of those events being retaliations, revenge, and assassinations of witnesses and possible whistleblowers.
I am sure that the secret services do know about who killed whom and why – in all these events.
However, the general public would not accept all those lies, false flag events and money related crimes if the truth really became public. For peace and for the welfare of the world ruling mafia families, the truth must be kept secret.
James
Since we do not have any more information than you have, any answer would just be another piece of speculation.
When i am allowed to speculate:
I would guess that they did not tell the known knowns simply because they did not know about what car did belong to what secret service.
E.g.: Hey, were they our guys? Were they your guys? Did you ask Tel Aviv? Have we got an answer? What does London say? Have you talked to our guy Berezovsky? Do we have reports from Langley regarding their guys?
etc. Etc. ….
Sorting out all that mess about known knowns and known secrets that were not authorised to go public must have created a headache for Eric.
Only when he had all the information sorted out and cleared by different secret services, he was allowed going public by government agencies.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/04/16/rumored-dead-black-ops-nsa-cia-gene-chip-tatum-alive/
Tim v
Regarding Iran contra i found that piece.
Not sure whether or not this report is legit.
Perhaps we read in 15 years that Saad al Hilli was seen and interviewed alive?
Fact is that we know too little for finding the truth. However, what we know for sure as a matter of fact is that they don’t tell us the truth, that Eric & Co. are liars and that several governments are/were involved.
You see the thing is, they have not said who saw the 4×4.
Was ir Martin or Didierjean (plus two pax) ?
Was Martin’s interview designed to withhold the information with regard the 4×4
OR was Martin’s interview designed to put pressure on the French investigation ? (This guy saw nothing…so over to your guy).
The mere fact that this information (with the lack of “who” saw it) is very interesting.
http://realscreen.com/2013/05/15/channel-4-rize-tackle-the-alps-murders/
James
15 May, 2013 – 9:03 pm – Who saw the vehicle? The first q that must be asked is “Which vehicle?” You know all the vehicles and the variations on a few themes. But now we have a very distinctive vehicle (rhd bmw x5) at a very specific time (Brits 3.20; french 3.15-3.30) at a specific place (1 km (or 1/3rd) into the combe. This could all be lies but if we take it at face value and previous official statements, it could NOT be didierjean as even the earliest he appears is 4 pm. So only WBM was in the vicinity unless we include the victims and the girls are surely too young to recognise a type of BMW? If it was someone other than WBM (maybe the boy motorcyclist?) he surely would have said. Logic suggests it was either WBM or someone else has been concealed.
“WHITE BMW” (By Henry Samuel, Paris3:10PM BST 15 Apr 2013 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9995367/Alps-murder-investigators-seek-white-BMW-driver.html)
“Gendarmes are focusing efforts on finding the four-wheel drive vehicle based on its description by a forestry official working near Chevaline – the Alpine beauty spot where three members of a British family and a French cyclist were found shot dead last September 5. Now, according to Le Parisien newspaper, there is renewed interest in such a vehicle after an employee of the national forestry office told inspectors he too had seen a white BMW X5-type model in the same area. It added that it was “unusual” to see such a wide vehicle on the narrow roads leading into the forest.” (NB “The forestry worker” – Oh yea where has he popped up from?)
“An eyewitness close to the murder scene had already told detectives HE had seen a “dark” individual careering INTO Chevaline in a large white car and almost hitting another vehicle, but the testimony was reportedly dismissed as too imprecise.” (If accurate this cannot be Sylvie Lecouer 49 as SHE saw small white Peugeot 206/306 LEAVING Chevaline)www.mirror.co.uk/news/…/french-alps-shooting-peugeot-driver-131231.. SEE BELOW
“BLACK/GREY rhd BMW x5” (Is this the same vehicle with the opposite colour or a quite different one?)
(29 APRIL 2013 http://www.independent.ie/world-news/alps-murders-police-in-4×4-plea-29229813.html)
“Officers are keen to speak to the owner of a right-hand drive 4×4 vehicle, possibly a grey, black or dark-coloured BMW X5, which was being driven on the Combre d’Ire Road, Chevaline, at around 3.20pm on September 5.”
“WHITE (RWD) PEUGEOT 206/306”
“A man in a black shirt seen speeding from the scene of the French Alps shootings in a white car is being hunted by French police.
Sylvie Lecouer, 49, had to swerve to avoid a “white Peugeot 206 or 306” near where Saad al-Hilli’s BMW was attacked.
Mrs Lecoeur, who was driving back from a supermarket near Chevaline, said yesterday: “He was coming down the hill on the wrong side. I was terrified.
“At the last minute he braked and swerved and so did I so we just avoided hitting each other.
“It was a small white car, maybe a Peugeot 306 or 206. I think it was a French car, but I can’t be sure.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-peugeot-driver-1312317#ixzz2TS27SS63
“DARK MITSUBISHI 4X4”
(Lizzy Davies in Annecy
The Guardian, Friday 14 September 2012 18.14 BST. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/14/alps-shootings-survivor-return-uk)
“They were reported on Friday to be hoping to track down a dark Mitsubishi 4×4 apparently seen in the area on the day of the attack.”
“WITH BRITISH NUMBER PLATES NOW – SO PRESUMABLY RHD?)
By Adrian Shaw DAILY MIRROR
Alps massacre: Murder police hunt 4×4 with British plates as orphan gunned down in attack returns to UK
15 Sep 2012 00:00
“Murder squad detectives are hunting a car with UK number plates seen speeding away from the scene of the Alps massacre.
French police said yesterday that a witness saw a dark Mitsubishi Pajero 4×4 being driven by a nervous-looking man.
The car was spotted near the village of Chevaline in eastern France where three members of a British family were executed.
It was then seen being driven along the A39 motorway towards the city of Lyon.
A police source said yesterday: “A witness says the driver had darkish skin and looked nervous. It is crucial we find this car.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-police-hunt-1324745#ixzz2TS4q0imL
“GREEN 4×4” (Thursday 16 May 2013 – http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9529413/France-shooting-Police-hunt-4×4-driver.html)
“France shooting: Police hunt 4×4 driver”
“French detectives were last night hunting the driver of a GREEN 4×4 vehicle and a motorcyclist seen speeding towards the murder scene shortly before the massacre was discovered. A British witness described seeing the car and the motorbike pass him on the quiet mountain road as he cycled towards the spot where he made the gruesome discovery of the murdered British family. The witness, who is a former RAF man, was cycling on the heavily forested road south of Chevaline on his mountain bike, when he was overtaken at speed by a GREEN 4×4 vehicle and a motorcyclist. Eric Maillaud, the senior French prosecutor on the case, explained how the witness had been able to give a detailed description of the car and the motorbike.”
“GREEN OR WHITE PEUGEOT 4X4” (By NICK FAGGE and PETER ALLEN
PUBLISHED: 09:38, 7 September 2012)
“police officers are hunting for a Peugeot 4×4, green or white, which was being driven by a man in a black shirt. It was spotted near the scene by a young woman and also an RAF veteran”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199670/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Was-hitman-Each-British-victims-shot-TWICE-cyclist-witness-FIVE-times.html#ixzz2TS8NDfdC
ME! Is this enough confusion for one day? So was the vehicle a BMW, a Peugeot or a Mitsubishi? Was it an X5, a 206, a 306, a Pajero? Was it green, dark, grey or white? Was it two wheel drive or four? Was it French or English registered? Was it left hand drive or right hand drive? Was it going to the murder location or coming from it? Was it driving at speed, dangerously or at normal pace? Who actually witnessed it – was it WBM, a forestry worker, Silvie LeCouer, someone on the motorway or someone else/others? Did WBM give a detailed descripstion as stated by Maillaud, or did he hardly remember anything of note as he reported himself? Why did he initially report it as “Green” but now the appeal for what must be the same vehicle given the time and location, as “Black”?
Perhaps our indefatigable press would like to ask these questions and the police answer them?
“….after an employee of the national forestry office told inspectors he too had seen a white BMW X5-type model in the same area”.
“he too” ?
That means “he also”. Also to whom ?
Tim
Thanks for that quite funny summary.
I might have a more realistic question regarding tge 4×4.
I mean, if i cannot remember the colour nor the type of the car, why would i know that this is a 4×4?
I drive a 4×4 myself, however, my car does exist as a non 4×4 model, too. I would not see the difference if i would not own that 4×4 car. How would a witness be able to see whether or not this is a 4×4?
I mean, you cannot see any significance from the outside of that car whether or not this is a 4×4. Why would a witness see this? I have no idea.
They do not remember the colour nor the car’s model but they definitely saw that this is a 4×4? Bloody! The witness must be a genius with alzheimer disease.
This is like somebody watching an airplane from the ground level flying in 1000 ft altitude above him and then telling us that he could not see wether or not this airplane had 4 engines nor could he see its company logo, however, he could definitely see that its pilot was blonde and that he was wearing a pair of Cartier sun glasses.
That is the 4×4 code for me. It is pretty strange. Is it just a code?
Fascinating interview BB. I listened to all of it! Certainly sounded Kosher to me. For those who wish to know more:
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/the_pegasus_file-part1.htm
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/the_pegasus_file-part2.htm
“Using the private sector clause, Don Gregg, VP Bush’s National Security Advisor, included a representative from British Intelligence and Israeli Intelligence. To date I have called this group Pegasus in an attempt not to divulge it’s true identity until I was on safe ground. Although most of the missions performed by OSG-2 are classified, the existence of the organisation is now declassified.”
“Sir Colin Figure, formerly head of MI6, transferred in 1986 to become “Security Co-ordinator” one of the top slots at the Cabinet office, under the Premiership of Margaret Thatcher. He retired in 1989. Amiram Nir represented Israeli interests until his assassination by an “Archer” team led by Tatum – at the request of high level Israeli individuals – in 1988. Any of these six could “call a mission.”
@ Tim V 12:26 pm: Didn’t the official story turn the witness Sylvie Lecoeur into a man at one point? She’s a woman, she’s a man, she couldn’t tell if the car was left-hand drive or right-hand drive, white, green, light, dark, large, small or whatever. Silly Sylvie/Sylvio. Maybe she was wearing sunglasses.
http://archive.org/details/IED-4X4-CIA
4×4 just a code?
See
The 4×4 CIA files regarding the war in Iraq.
4×4, Iraq, Saad al Hilli, CIA? Hmmmmmm …..
Coincidence?
BB I agree with your general point except as far as I am aware, neither the Peugeot 206 or 306 HAVE EVER BEEN four wheel drive. Therefore if SL is to be believed, the official line quoted by
NICK FAGGE and PETER ALLEN quoted above, MUST be a completely different vehicle.
In Henry Samuel’s piece you will note the white Peugeot is reported by a man not a woman, and is now not “small” but “large”. SL’s account is rubbished, despite apparently and amazingly, causing a very similar near-accident. This time it is going in the opposite direction TOWARDS the murder scene.
So if accurate the large white vehicle on the way in, transforms miraculously into a small 206/306 on the way out or a black BMWX5 (take your pick).
So who are these additional different witnesses described – the “young woman” (obviously not 49 yo SL) and “man” who saw the white car careering in? And where precisely? These details are so fundamental to the investigation, that it is eye wateringly incredible/incompetent that they haven’t been sorted.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/285063/The-real-James-Bond/
In my theory, the 4×4 is simply a code for a car that belings to one of the secret services. Even in James Bond movies, the 4×4 is being used as such a code since many years.
I dont think that any of us could identify a speeding car saying this was a 4×4. How wouod you do that?
4×4 – in my humble opinion is a code for secret service cars.
You will find quite a lot regarding 4×4 and MI6, CIA, Mossad, etc. on google.
E.g. see link above in this post.
“wearing a pair of Cartier sun glasses”.
Now then ! Cartier are prob polarized.
You can’t wear them. You can’t see the screens.
And that is what I mean. We can only assume what we know, but we “do” know something.
Who says it was a 4×4 RHD with a UK plate ?
Martin ? Didierjean ? The eldest girl ? A forest worker ?
Well we “know” that TWO people have said it was that.
It is said ONE is the forest worker. The other ?
I agree it is “most likely” that it was Martin AND it is unlikely that he will give another interview saying “I was told not to mention it” !
“Eye wateringly incredible/incompetent”: so it is, Tim, but apparently an entire world full of news media missed it.
Perhaps the “Sylvie” persona left her best clue in her shirt: “South Beach”.
Q
16 May, 2013 – 2:52 pm – She may be “bi-polar”? Explains a multitude of “ups” and “downs” these days.
Did you pick up on the “Pegasus File” thing? A huge fraud using illegal drug money “off the books” to fund illicit weapons and bribes and Bush/CIA/Clinton activities including assassination including possibly the ex head of the CIA himself Colby who hated the water but came to a watery end.
“Pegasus (Ancient Greek: Πήγασος, Pégasos, Latin Pegasus) is one of the best known mythological creatures in Greek mythology. He is a winged divine stallion usually depicted as pure white in colour. He was sired by Poseidon, in his role as horse-god, and foaled by the Gorgon Medusa.[1] He was the brother of Chrysaor, born at a single birthing when his mother was decapitated by Perseus. Greco-Roman poets write about his ascent to heaven after his birth and his obeisance to Zeus, king of the gods, who instructed him to bring lightning and thunder from Olympus. Friend of the Muses, Pegasus is the creator of Hippocrene, the fountain on Mt. Helicon. He was captured by the Greek hero Bellerophon near the fountain Peirene with the help of Athena and Poseidon. Pegasus allows the hero to ride him to defeat a monster, the Chimera, before realizing many other exploits. His rider, however, falls off his back trying to reach Mount Olympus. Zeus transformed him into the constellation Pegasus and placed him up in the sky.” WIKIPEDIA
I’m sure we haven’t forgotten this was “the slaughter of horses”. And whilst on the subject of disappearance, where has our Canadian friend “NR” gone? Have you heard that in China there’s a new craze: posting support of the government on the net and adding that they are so happy the have NO INTENTION OF COMMITTING SUICIDE. It is a sophisticated mass protest at recent “suicides”.
Tim
The Pegasus files are a really intrresting piece. However, i would need to read it several times to understand all the connections and i must see some independent reviews.
Overall it does not surprise me at all. It sounds logic and it fits into our previous investigations.
Tim
In the first link there is a downloadable pdf of the pegasus files that is much better for reading than the previous links.
In the second link there is a very good addition including scanned documents. It needs some time getting through. I wonder about when we find the names of kadhim or hashim al hilli in there.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?25916-The-Pegasus-File
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html
Only trouble (James
16 May, 2013 – 3:42 pm) is that the forestry worker is said to have seen a WHITE BMW. Given various lighting conditions it might be possible to confuse grey with black or even dark green, but confuse it with WHITE? Never. IF the French “white BMWX5” is the same as the British “black BMWX5” (which is frankly unbelievable) we have to ask the question, “Where and When?” Mr Maillaud has already suggested that WBM’s original report of seeing a green 4X4, was explained by the Forestry vehicle. Really? Did that vehicle pass him TWICE? Why did it take so long to identify it after such a notorious event? How is it possible for a BMWX5 to be on the mountain road, if the only vehicle to pass WBM was a French Forestry vehicle, let alone it being RHD? And how could it be a white or black vehicle if it was only the forestry vehicle? Were there more vehicles on the road between 3 and 4 pm than we were told or just one, in which case which of the alternatives put forward was it?
Perhaps NR is busy with the latest in fake red hair stories, namely a candy-apple-red Mohawk, sported by a descendant of a famous Mohawk, who happens to be an airline heir charged with murder. Funny thing is, he chose a lawyer who has defended some interesting clients (think charges of forged passports, hints of (unproven) links to terrorism, career criminals from Pakistan, etc.). The fake red hair is kind of like the Mercedes. Once it’s mentioned, it starts showing up everywhere.
One thing I had not considered with the past discussions of SSTL’s satellites is the ability to see anomalies beneath the ground other than things like minerals, or for other purposes than measuring the thickness of ice. We had already discussed the topic of underground nuclear facilities being detectable.
Along with satellites, there are other techniques such as ground-penetrating radar that can spot things like mines and mass graves:
http://www.foi.se/en/Top-menu/Pressroom/News/2013/Information-technology-facilitates-mine-clearance/
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Treblinka/IHRJ191000.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/16/boston-marathon-bombing-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-note-boat/2165543/
Tsarnaev says the Boston bombings were retaliation for Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxD8hjJdjNw
Tsarnaev False Flag – (if you can cope with the host)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0xzsbSbVUE
High Ranking US Major General Exposes September 11
Tim….
Why does nobody get this !
A B757 did not hit that building. This isn’t a conspiracy theory, it simple could not happen. You would have to be VERY experienced in flying that type for you to hit that building where it did.
The basics are….who did that pilot call to change his “alt” from t/o (takeoff) to “landing” ?
Unless this guy could “guess” really well….he would need an alt setting for The Pentagon to get down that low, ride across the grass….and hit three foot from the ground.
He did it all “by eye” ? Yeah right ! It cannot be done.
HE had no land experience. This would be a “gear up” high speed approach…”in flight”. The percentage chance of him either “over flying” OR hitting the deck further out is simply to great for him to get it “spot on” the first time.
James, a lot of people get it.