The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@James
… How does it work ? …
Police bail I imagine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail#England_and_Wales
Seems that type of bail can (and does in some cases) go on without time limit.
1) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22624648
2) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/28/britain-police-charge-without-bail
“The French investigators are understood to have questioned Zaid over allegations that he tried to withdraw cash from the Geneva account using an expired credit card shortly before the murders”.
Blue… I’ll have a look now. On your other matter.
I do get “squawk 7700” data on my BB so I’ll look.
Weatherwise… I’ll check, but on not flying today so delete the “weather this morning is…..”
“withdraw cash from the Geneva account using an expired credit card shortly before the murders” That’s odd !
And the Romanian calls ?
Blue….
DY is Norwegian Air Shuttle
Do you have by chance a tail number ? I have nada on the BB.
James
The plane is a B733
I do not have any other details
Departure 9:44am OSL (scheduled 9:30), 14 min. later
Did not arrive in KEF (Reykjavik)
Scheduled to arrive in KEF 10:20am
Where did it go down? Due to my search info there was no bad weather in KEF.
plane must have been diverted while over UK airspace. We would know if it was hilacking or accident.
There is no bad weather up there.
“14knts/10knts and Iceland”….so that’ll be “cloud” then
You mean a 737 300 series.
But I have nada. BIKF seems normal. No nothing. I see no report !
No NOTAM’s either
One taxi way closed for resurfacing…that’s it/
No SAR up. Nada.
A0185/13 NOTAMN
Q) BIRD/QMXLC/IV/M/A/000/999/
A) BIKF
B) 1306240800 C) 1306282000
E) TAXIWAY E-4 CLOSED DUE TO RESURFACING REF AIP BIKF AD 2.24.1.2-1.
A0183/13 NOTAMN
Q) BIRD/QNVAS/IV/BO/AE/000/999/
A) BIKF
B) 1306240800 C) 1306281600
E) VOR KEF 112.0 MHZ UNSERVICEABLE DUE TO MAINTENANCE.
REF. AIP BIKF AD 2.19.
A0176/13 NOTAMN
Q) BIRD/QOLAS/IV/M/A//000/999/
A) BIKF
B) 1306121300 C) 1308132359
E) OBS LGT BIKFOB001 158FT MAST NDB KF UNSERVICEABLE.
REF AIP BIKF AD2.10.
F
V0191/13 NOTAMR V0007/13
Q) /QPIGV
A) BIKF
B) 201304151430
C) 201307152359
E) [DOD PROCEDURAL NOTAM] INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE NOT
AUTHORIZED ILS/DME RWY 29.
V0190/13 NOTAMR V0006/13
Q) /QPIGV
A) BIKF
B) 201304151430
C) 201307152359
E) [DOD PROCEDURAL NOTAM] INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE NOT
AUTHORIZED ILS/DME RWY 20.
V0189/13 NOTAMR V0005/13
Q) /QPIGV
A) BIKF
B) 201304151430
C) 201307152359
E) [DOD PROCEDURAL NOTAM] INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE NOT
AUTHORIZED ILS/DME RWY 02.
“withdraw cash from the Geneva account using an expired credit card shortly before the murders”
When does the Nigerian go on trial ?
Thanks james.
Maybe there was nothing. But i checked two independent flight tracking software (one of those flighttrack app) and there is no landing for this flight. That usually points towards a departed flight. Maybe there was just a data loss. But i was curious when i saw this.
Back to topic.
Would a suspect charged for “conspiracy for murder” have a chance for bail in the UK? Usually not, would they?
Was data loss. The return rotation lifted @ 11:20 according to the airline website
I could only see the NOTAMs and weather and a check on the 7700’s.
Doesn’t it didn’t. Doesn’t mean it does. Means it’s not reported !
As for “the release”. Bleb posted about bail and such.
Interesting thing is, the French flew in. They must have.
ZAH (or the lawyer) must have refused to go to France (and I can see why). Although would have they expected him to do so ?
Question one. Where was the interview scheduled, due to take place ?
France ? Or the U.K. ? After the arrest, it took place in the U.K.
Of course there was time enough to fly him to France…but did they ? I doubt he’d be “released” by now if they did.
And the reason they questioned him ?
the “withdraw of cash from the Geneva account using an expired credit card shortly before the murders”.
Of course that could be yet another “sham”. But it’s interesting.
The Nigerian blokes trial is “that” (ish) but after the murders !
The fella is sat in the transit longue at “The Big Cow”.
Try arriving there without your visa ! It’s a “park n ride” without the ride. Sit on the steps and have a fag whilst they feck about !
Been there, Done it. Bought the T shirt.
He’ll be cleared on the next flight out…as long as it doesn’t touch “USA ness”. And good on him. He’ll need some cash…so no doubt he’ll be able to help “mother Ruskie”. Serves the Yanks well for being such pr*cks.
The Berlin Wall ! The USSR ! Do these people not learn !
bluebird @ 25 Jun, 2013 – 10:09 pm
“Would a suspect charged for “conspiracy for murder” have a chance for bail in the UK? Usually not, would they?”
Zaid has been arrested but not charged. He has been released, presumably, on police bail and this can go on without time limit.
See my post @ 25 Jun, 2013 – 8:52 pm for details of how the police bail system works and is sometimes abused by the police
Bleb, does a person have to front the cash for this sort of bail, or could they sign a promissory note, or a pledge against property? Could he pledge proceeds of an estate?
Bluebird
25 Jun, 2013 – 5:21 pm – for the first time we could have a credible reason for mother in law to be on the trip. To make available her knowledge of Swedish language to documents? Did SAH expect to meet up with representatives of Iraq regarding disputed land ownership with possible oil/mineral reserves/implications?
Pure speculation on my part.
James
25 Jun, 2013 – 8:30 pm – can’t resist pointing out the police have done what I predicted. I wonder if the rest applies as well?
On MZT @ Tim V
6-25-2013 at 15:08:13
“My guess is that when the interrogation process is over, and precious little is revealed to the French, Mr Al Hilli will be released on police bail, uncharged but “pending further enquiries” with conditions attached including not speaking to the press or others and passport with held. Whether this eventually results in charges being pressed or dropped we shall have to wait and see. It does however provide additional restraint on contact with and comment on, ZAH that may have its advantages in coming months.” – See more at: http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-shooting-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-part-7/comment-page-42/#comment-13252
Q
No, it doesn’t work as a bond like the US. Although really in this day and age I think the “old school” US way of doing it “bail band” works rather well….
…and a few bounty hunters saves some cash.
This is much needed in Europe….when the Romanian Gypsy folk arrive ! Thank the Lord I reside in a country I can (am allowed) still hold a firearm (and not in the US !)
YIM !
That’s cheating !
“On MZT @ Tim V 6-25-2013 at 15:08:13”
I never read that forum. Not commenting on anything more about it.
Incest is strange isn’t it ?
More cake anyone ?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/french-alps-shooting-victims-brother-1996845
To be honest, they dont look like genetic brothers at all.
There isnt a single similarity in their faces and head styles.
Maybe they had a different mother? But even then there should be at least one or two similarities visible. Was one of them an orphan child? That might explain kadhims last will for giving everything to only one (the genetic?) son only. Pity that we dont have a picture of Kadhim. Though we have pictures of Ali and Hashim al Hilli. We would need somebody to compare those 2 pictures here in that link plus the pictures of Hashim and Ali al Hilli regarding any genetic similarities. Are there any experts here?
@bluebird
26 Jun, 2013 – 9:19 am
I am trying to locate the research into the al Hilli family you did way back when. Roughly when was it?
FB over on MZT just confirmed SAH and ZAH both went to Pimlico School in Westminster. Does that fit with your research?
Yes mochyn, saad went to school in pimlico. Not sure about zaid, though. Zaid has no history. While there are tracks of saad back to the early stages of london, we do not hear of zaid except for his marriage with geraldine o’reilly.
At this time they lived in South London. They did not live in Pimlico, though.
They lived in a building that – as I had suggested – was owned by Iraq (due to the other residents and offices in that building).
You should find this in that blog here. Open all comments and search for Pimlico and then search for my posts. Should be easy to find. I guess that i had posted this in late september or october 2012. I had posted all their UK history of kadhims and hashims family with all physical addresses of their uk homes.
Q @ 25 Jun, 2013 – 11:41 pm
“… does a person have to front the cash for this sort of bail …”
source: http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-rights-of-defendants/bail.html
So Zaid may have to provide a financial guarantee although I think this would be unusual**. Much more likely are some of the other conditions. As TimV suggests Zaid could effectively be gagged and his movements restricted. This could go on indefinitely.
**eg: Julian Assange had to find financial backers and agree to what amounted to house arrest before he was allowed bail. Those backers will have had to pay up (I think to the tune of several hundred thousand pounds each) when he fled to the Ecuadorian embassy.
ZAH was involved with another company according to Company Records.
TFTC Ltd. No idea what they did.
The other co director was Mr Yahya Mirjan.
He’s had a few good companies.
I think it’s all Interior Design supplies etc. (Granite etc…)
They must source that from all over Europe as he’s a Member of British Chamber of Commerce Kosovo.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/yahya-mirjan/19/144/25
Bleb and James, thank you. Bail for failing to appear for questioning is similar to the bail system in other Commonwealth countries, then, with cash and property pledges not required in many cases. Conditions seem to be the priority in Zaid’s case.
As for Zaid and Saad possibly not looking like genetic brothers, I would agree. They look like they could be related (half-brothers, cousins, etc.), but it is also true that not all full genetic siblings look like each other. In some places, immigrants informally or formally adopt the children of their relatives before they settle in foreign lands. They call them their sons and daughters, whether or not the adoption process was ever formalized. In some cases, this is done as the basis for sponsoring other relatives to immigrate in the future.
I am most curious to know whether Saad, Iqbal and Mrs. Al-Saffar died with wills, and what was in those wills, or whether they died intestate. I don’t recall hearing anything about this. Who was chosen as the guardian of the children? What happens if, for example, someone who had been appointed guardian of the surviving children were to be arrested on suspicion of murder of the deceased and attempted murder of the minor children? What happens if someone appointed to be executor, or who stands to inherit the proceeds of such wills, is arrested and/or charged with murder/conspiracy to commit murder of the deceased? How long does it take to settle a will in an unsolved murder? Is there a grace period of any kind to allow authorities to investigate, such as one year?
What is going on behind the scenes between Saad’s and Iqbal’s families with regard to the children? Would it have been normal for someone like Saad, who was not strictly religious, to follow Muslim law and appoint one of his male family members as guardian of the children? If there was a formalized separation or divorce in the works, this would complicate the matter of wills and guardianship. If someone from Iqbal’s family had been appointed guardian, this would be less complicated, as no one from her side of the family appears to be of interest to the authorities at this time (as far as we know).
If they existed, are the wills of the Chevaline al-Hilli clan undergoing probate right now?
I am most curious to know if there is a one-year waiting period, as we inch closer to the anniversary of these murders.
@ James: So we’re back to minerals; this time it’s granite.
I’m still wondering if the al-Hillis owned a gypsum factory or a gypsum mine, and who the minerals rights under their properties would have belonged to.
Erdil in Kurdistan has made us of granite in its airport and shopping malls. Nothing says “we’ve arrived” like granite.
Minerals found in Kurdistan:
http://en.ostan-kd.ir/Default.aspx?TabId=64
http://m.harunyahya.com/tr/Dunyada-Dine-Donus/121509/Online-Islam-School-for-Romania-Muslims
Great find with Mirjan Yahya!
Online Islam School for Romanian MUSLIMS
Harun Yahya!!!!!!!
Dig deeper. That might be the Romanian connection!
http://secretbeyondmatter.com/en/The-Entire-World-Wants-Turkish-Islamic-Union/162774/marius-eugen-opran–
Harun Yahya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul-Wahab_Mirjan
Abdul-Wahab Mirjan was the 44th Prime Minister of Iraq for a short time. December 15, 1957 to March 3, 1958.
By all accounts he was one of the good guys. Wealthy but helped the poor. Of course after that period….the trouble starts in Iraq.
Any relation ?
Abdul Wahab (the former PM of Iraq) was the son of Abdul-Razzaq.
Yahya Mirjan has a son. He’s called Razzak Mirjan.
Coincidence ? or related ?