The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
Know what you mean Marlin
2 Jul, 2013 – 11:45 am. I am definitely an outsider there!!! At first I was met with mild abuse (e.g. “You know it all” etc.) which has now developed to a subtle form of points being ignored. Not complaining and I keep plugging away. There are signs of movement in places whilst others refuse to face facts. One thinks of Galileo Galilei’s famous phrase: “But still it moves”.
BTW Marlin, I don’t suppose you know how to lodge a question to the mighty Microsoft why that “Do not turn off you computer. Update 1 of 1” message comes on every time I click “shut down” these days. Something is uploading or downloading each time I sign off. This has never happened like this in the past. I went into their web site which was designed by Alice in Wonderland I think. I did however use their virus detector which gave me the all clear but this appears something different. An official Windows 7 device. (BB as our resident “computer geek” (compliment btw) maybe you might have some thoughts?)
Have we all decamped to MZT?
Not at all.
I think we’ve been playing “hit and run” with the Biscuit Brigade !
Hey Tim
I can’t “see” the bike you speak of…but today saw a chap with VERY broad white rims on his “non too cheap” racer/something.
I did think of you.
You see we (humans) are “trained” to see patterns OR what we want to see.
That said….the position of “the bike” does “fit” with the BMW being on a longer reverse. Which is something I have been musing over.
AND the simple fact, the police had actually taped off that area (that size of area). Now why would they do that ?
There interest is in “the crime scene”… “well fella’s, where’s good to hang this tape then” !
Off topic for tim
Tim
You might want to read thar regarding your pc:
http://www.itproportal.com/2013/03/19/microsoft-rolling-out-automatic-service-pack-1-updates-windows-7-pcs/
http://m.computerworld.com/s/article/9238371/Microsoft_urges_Windows_7_users_to_uninstall_Blue_Screen_of_Death_patch
http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2013/06/11/patch-tuesday.htm
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/04/12/patch-tuesday-fatal-system-error/
James
So then, do you suggest that FB is just a troll?
I somehow agree with you, unless he would at least come up with some kind of useful and approvable information. Actually, his nickname is a significant forum troll name used by many trolls in different internet forums. Aren’t we surprised? See below (or search google for “fat bastard troll”)
http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/35wu73/
I would enjoy all our investigations being that easy like that one. Debunk him.
Mochyn69 – no decamping just yet. This is like a “private” board where we can go OT to our heart’s content throw a tantrum now and then, misinterpret comments and delve into all kinds of history and networks, in the hope that perhaps, somehow, a needle will be found in the haystack. Plus we get to do a little gossip “just among ourselves”. It’s like one of those reality shows where each participant gets periodically a cameo to explain/rant about their motives and cast aspersions on others. In good fun, of course.
I did get the impression that over at MZT everyone is ever so proper, polite and circumscribed. Something to do, no doubt, with Marilyn’s preferences, which is totally her prerogative. No harm in that that i can see – one is obliged to respect the host’s rules, if you want to be invited for tea and biscuits, that is. I think also that her emphasis on properness helped keep many commenters there onboard all this time. Of course, by now they are the “in girls” clique (the guys too).
that being said, here we are a bit more on the wild side…believing nothing and trusting nobody (except our own lying minds?). and Craig is to be commended for letting us have our authority eschewing romps.
IMO, it will take all kinds to keep Chevaline alive, both wild and civilized, chaotic and organized, with and without focus. All adding to a good deed. However we do it.
At the moment, I am enjoying the new schemes Max is coming up with, having come to the same place where Tim V has bee regarding the tire tracks, lo these many months.
Also, i think that Marilyn’s call for organizing and archiving the different newspaper and media accounts, and Lars’ historical record keeping are apropo and likely to pay dividends. Credit to where it is due.
Blue.
Over “there” they are CONVINCED.
Some private emails or other.
Guess they won’t be sharing them. You just have to take their word !
An attempt made to “ask a question”…was met by “considerable” shouts from the “gallery”.
I have a couple of thoughts on this subject.
Non which I’ll say as this is a public gathering….
Overall. I am NOT convinced at all.
Hey James
Lurked at the other place while you visited – you obviously picked up on the “air-side” reference.
What do you make of the “Surrey and Sussex major crime team” reference?
They have asked him not to talk to you. . . but shortly after the open invitation is re-issued. So who exactly do they hope will take up the offer?
You and Bluebird may think he is a troll – me, I think he is a Teapot.
Pretty part of content. I just stumbled upon your site and in accession capital to assert that I
acquire in fact loved account your blog posts. Any way I will be
subscribing in your augment and even I fulfillment you get entry to consistently rapidly.
Komplet ludzie, których poznałeś – dokładnie wszyscy
– nie pojawili się tutaj przypadkowo.
Przyszli, by Ciebie czegoś nauczyć. Z definicji wybieramy sobie ludzi,
jakich mamy spotkać przed narodzinami.
Mimo to dzisiaj zagłębie się w niejaki, specyficzny rodzaj poznania, mianowicie: Bliskości Inkarnacyjnej.
Podejrzewam, że każdy ma w otoczeniu osobę, jaką znaliśmy w poprzednich wcieleniach… Niby to odczuć?
GIP, I go with tea also. Have my ideas, especially since I saw that quip “the end justifies the means”. more tea-ish than troll-ish.
BTW, GIP, once I thought you could be lynda (-:)). Now, not so much….besides, i became fond of Peter’s tale of the mustachioed iraqi colonel. Funny stuff, if you saw it…
Tim V 1:57 PM Am not much of a Windows person but a quick google search turned up a long list of people having the same problem. Did you try that yet? One forum that may be able to provide answers for free (don’t know how good it is):
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/community/newsgroups/desktopos/winxp.mspx
Here are some answers I found to questions just like yours. I liked the third one best and it seemed to have solved the problem.
http://www.justanswer.com/computer/6mn2e-message-installing-update-2-everytime-shut.html
http://superuser.com/questions/453345/everytime-i-shut-down-i-got-a-message-from-windows-not-to-turn-off-computer-and
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110811012039AA17VYf
Good Luck.
Your friendly tech Support (ie, a googler)
PS Alas, I tried e mailing the prism people but they were all busy chasing Snowden and intercepting messages from every plane to South America. The only one who wasn’t busy had to interrupt our session for tea and biscuits. must have been from a certain island (or another).
Good In Parts.
Very good. Belly laughed at that. Nearly spat my tea out !
Tim V
Try running MalwareBytes.
Download it from “My Bleeping Computer” (all one word URL) and run as a full scan. You’ll see what you’ve picked up.
Maybe nothing, maybe something.
If you’re running 7, you can “turn back” your HD to a date when there wasn’t a problem. But you’ll need to know “that date” and that it “auto saved” to that date.
But try running MalwareBytes before anything else.
Oh… and here’s another for you Tim.
Re your “bike”. I favour the “long reverse” but….
…from memory I think to select reverse gear on the BMW (RHD) manual gearbox it is “across to the left…and then forward”.
If you are in a panic…and slam it across and up (first gear) you’ll hit reverse !
I am not convinced that the “skid marks” are from a BMW.
Nor that the “three” marks are from the same “movement”.
If Al Hilli was “parked” lets say…and about to move off.
Then Mollier arrives, followed by “a another” in a vehicle…
The vehicle “rams” Mollier, sending the bike forwards and to the right, then turns into the car park at the far end…halting at “speed” (front wheel braking is heavier, hence the skid).
Al Hilli may have attempted to get out…also his daughter from the front seat, to assist (in shock) with the “accident”.
Shots are fired at Mollier (first volley), then are directed at Al Hilli. He gets in the car, tries to engage first gear (but selects reverse in pain)…..more shots follow directed at the BMW.
Shots are then redirected at the fatally injured/dead Mollier.
And then the final (without bullets) attack made on the eldest girl.
The car is remounted…and departs the scene.
The attack therefore would have been directed towards Mollier.
There are TWO issues here of course.
1. We are told Mollier was near Al Hilli ? (????).
Mollier may have been looking for a UK plated BMW. And asked if Al Hilli was “he”. Then waited at the end of the road…where he was then struck.
2. Al Hilli’s daughter was outside the car as an escape was attempted ?
In pain and panic, with his daughter trying to get into the car, he may have been confused. OR his daughter may have fled in away from the car park and down the road.
Who knows.
But if your “bike” is a bike, which the “size” of the police cordon suggests it is “something” to do with the crime, then as odd as it seems, it may have been played out like that, with Mollier as the “main target”…awaiting the arrival of a UK plated BMW.
James,
I think you got it right.
Next question is why?
Bluebird
2 Jul, 2013 – 9:27 pm Many thanks for taking the trouble to post those references. For an uninitiated geek I tried my best to understand them and whether they impinge on my new “update situation” but not sure I’m any further forward. I thought maybe its trying to update and failing so keeps trying but then probably it wouldn’t shut down when its done it (if you see what I mean?) I’m wondering if all 7 users are getting the same treatment of an update every time the computer closes down. If they are I would accept a new Microsoft soft policy. If they don’t I would find it in my particular case, rather worrying. Anyway, thanks again for your assistance BB.
AGrainofSalt…
For that we need to revisit the elusive Mr Mollier.
Or is that “illusive”. The illusion that is Mr Mollier !
It may well be that ALL parties were to meet at the car park that afternoon, including Mr Al Hilli…
….But thus far (in that scenario, which fits “most” of the likely “facts”) we have Mr Mollier….and his killer to link.
So who was our M. Mollier ?
Mochyn69
2 Jul, 2013 – 8:09 pm “De-camped” to MZT? Now there’s a thought. I looked in there and could resist to tackle the fundamental errors and what appeared almost a fawning attitude to officialdom. I think I might have been able, with others, to influence the consensus to at least accepting that the “skid marks” could not have been created by SAH’s BMW which was put out by the police (we assume) or at least never contradicted by them. The dramatic new bit of evidence related to an aerial shot that I posted in which Marilyn, I believe, spotted the long-term “missing” Mollier bike, from which additional story-line can be inferred. I cannot say my “landing” was welcomed with open arms, regarded by some as rather like a disruptive interloper to a self congratulatory tea party.
Usnavyocs.Com
3 Jul, 2013 – 5:16 am
“Set people that you meet – exactly all
– Did not arrive here by accident.
They came to teach you. By definition, we select the people
What we have to meet before the birth.
Yet today basin in certain, specific kind of knowledge, namely: Proximity incarnational.
I suspect that everyone has surrounded the person we knew in past lives … kind of feel it?”
Thanks to you too Marlin
3 Jul, 2013 – 8:41 am. (I’ve just got to it!) I’ll certainly take a look.
Thanks also to James
3 Jul, 2013 – 9:03 am for advice.
Point taken James
3 Jul, 2013 – 9:26 am. As you know I am convince those tracks indicate probably a 4WD leaving in a FORWARD direction. (Note leading wheel that appears to be turning) However the arc doesn’t lead to the exit road, it leads to the blood stains. From there it must set off down the hill but in stark contrast, this time it leaves no tracks. From which which I conclude once the shooting was done they set off in a very normal fashion. HEY! You have just shot four people in cold blood and left a badly injured little girl, but you drive off without leaving a mark. That is some cool customer. As Maillaud said “Someone who has killed before”. Yep I would add a trained military type assassin!
Then we have SAH’s BMW that we have discussed ‘ad nauseam’, photos out there show clearly STRAIGHT friction marks from the driving (rear) wheels for about 5 m before it wedges up against the bank. This is clear evidence the the car was at least that distance forward when the attack started.
I note your idea but I don’t think it can be made to match the facts as we know them. First if we believe WBM no grazing to Mollier rules out being knocked off his bike or dragged by a vehicle. I have to assume if that’s his bike where we see it (and I take on board your important point about the crime scene tape that includes the bike) it’s where he got off (on the continental RHS) and PLACED his expensive bike.
Then as you say, if we believe the blood forensics, it put SAH and SM together when shot. It positively rules out one being shot in locations far apart as it would be if SM was shot in the vicinity of his bike. This of course is supported by the compelling evidence of the blood stains, in one place only next to Al Hilli’s car.
Tim…
The phrase “if we believe the blood forensics”. If we believe that, then we believe all other things that the police have said ?
We can’t “pick and choose” the facts.
Of course if we don’t believe what they say, then we believe nothing at all that they have said at all…and only have a “possible” picture of the crime scene to work with.
In Martin’s interview the phrase “like an accident with the car” (paraphrased) is used. How can this be so.
From pictures taken of The Press pack walking of the scene, the BMW would have been out of the line of sight would it not ?
Given that it was previously at some point not halted by the bank, it still would have been “out of view”. It is after all a “parking spot”.
If we consider a logical point of the two parties “stood away from each other”, as they did not know each other. And we assume Mollier is “dismounted”. A “road traffic accident” with a pedestrian does not always cause “road rash”. Even if the “pedestrian” was at some point previously a “cyclist” !
So from the car braking on loose material (the car park) after hitting Mollier….
The exit is simple. The car reverses and then drives forward.
A “four by four” by design (especially a BMW) would have a traction bias to the rear wheels.
And “wide tyres” aren’t that easy to lose traction with…. especially at “slower” (not slow) speeds and on firm ground (his ass end would be on tarmac). Where do you want to end up ? In the stream ???
Those marks indicate to me….a braking action.
When I lived in one particular house, with a large loose parking area…I would arrive and “brake hard” and so “slide” into where I would park ! I was a kid at heart. And the other work colleagues I shared the house with would know I was home.
A “pilot thing” to wake my muckers up if they were trying to get some sleep.
Either way. “Them there” skid marks. Are from braking.
Tim
“photos out there show clearly STRAIGHT friction marks from the driving (rear) wheels for about 5 m before it wedges up against the bank”
This is a 530 we’re talking about.
Three “solid” BMW litres of pure pulling (DIGGING) power.
Six BIG cylinders….AND in a straight line. A diesel.
This is a tank !
A Grain of Salt.
Motive. Good question. So lets go fishing.
James
The plane of the Bolivian President FAB-001 which I have been following today from Vienna, has currently been assigned a Squawk of 0000
Wikipedia says:-
0000
Shall not be used — is a non-discrete mode A code (Europe)[11]
Mode C or other SSR failure (UK)[12]
Should never be assigned (USA)[13]
Military intercept code (USA)[14]
Internal ARTCC subsets assigned by En Route Safety and Operations Support (Discrete codes only except for first primary block to be used as non-discrete if all discrete codes are assigned) (USA)
Is this significant?
Update:
FAB1 disappeared from Radar Tracker about 7.30pm
James
Let’s go fishing.
I can think of 2 options.
#1 Sylvain Mollier was probably in need of money. Paternity leave, affluent in-laws to be, young partner to pamper, previous partner and children to support, etc
He didn’t have much to sell. We can doubt his position with Cezus actually led him to detain any valuable nuclear “secret”. But, if a little optimistic, he could have thought of pretending. Tried to sell things he didn’t have but somehow convinced others he had. Eventually got confronted by his prospective buyers. With maximal penalty. An example. Hence the omerta from his close professional and private circle.
#2 Sylvain Mollier had this cycling passion he shared with other players involved in the case. It seems likely he may have met one or several of them way before the tragedy. He seemed to have the rep of a lady-killer. What if he entertained an affair with the partner of one of them. The other guy may have thought revenge. And obviously a private motive is never the first thing investigators consider when there’s a multiple murder case.
In both instances, Saad al-Hilli and family could have been mere unlucky collaterals, or possibly a more or less planned cover-up.