The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna
Proof, if proof were needed, of the dichotomy between stated shock at the news that the USA engages in blanket monitoring of both European government and people, and at the same time does everything it can to render up the person who shed light on it.
It also demonstrates the power of the clandestine links between the USA and European states beyond the “five eyes” which in spite of legal and democratic controls, does illegal stuff up to and including murder.
It is lesson for Chevaline – an operation which all the signs point to these same forces, marked by a subsequent investigation which is hamstrung and shaped by the need to keep secrets and protect operations, rather than a genuine search for the truth and an obligation to bring to justice those who carried out the illegal act.
Such is the power of these organisations and the almost limitless resources available to them, paid for of course by the public, the individual citizen is left ignorant and powerless to question or intervene in any meaningful way. Who can withstand the power of the state if pitted against it?
Clearly even representative government has been ineffective even or there wouldn’t be “shock/horror” now.
We rely absolutely on these organisations doing the “right thing”, the “just thing”, but we have no guarantee that they will or control over them if they don’t because secrecy and co-called “national interest” always trumps legal due process. We saw that quite clearly in the case of Gareth Williams. If a police investigation is frustrated what other option is there?
Those that that “blow the whistle” on illegal acts are not protected. They are hounded and incarcerated by governments that never cease bragging about freedom of speech. I think we are being sold a pup.
We are told to trust the decision makers and that what they do is in our best interests. In the meantime someone somewhere is saying “Lets hope everyone forgets about four people shot, by whom and for what reason and just move on until the next time”. “You don’t need to know. And we arn’t going to tell you”.
Straw44berry
3 Jul, 2013 – 7:53 pm – “FAB1”??????
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fab+1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8nzUUdDXNu-20QW5k4CgCg&sqi=2&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=712
You couldn’t make this stuff up (if true)
Tim V
Still possible to see the historic flight of FAB1 from Moscow to Vienna here:-
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/fab-001
Straw
“Bolivian”…there’s a clue.
Probably “pilot gone for a p*ss…and he’s messing about” !
You’ll get told what to set on departure, then “requests”.
But you shouldn’t hit 7700 ! Well only if needed.
Was he on the ground ? Some Co SOP’s make them do that, but not all. Normally “2000” or “7000” to make it easier.
Ah ! It’s mil !
They’ll “0000”. Or not at all.
Some “privates” you won’t see also.
James
The live Guardian update from the Bolivian Embassy just announced its ending as the President is on the way home. So cancelled the ability to track the flight.
Thanks
The plane was never fully checked at Vienna so I am having an early night hoping that Edward Snowden was on board.
Straw
Flight tracker can only track flights that are close to land and close to people who support flight tracker with data. For instance, you will “lose” planes in Kyrgistan, Iran, China, Afghanistan and almost everywhere in Africa simply because there are no private trackers. On sea there is no signal receiver and therefore the plane is gone from flight tracker software but in fact it is still flying.
It was scheduled from VIE to land in Gran Canaria for fuel. You might track it again once it crosses land in south america.
I am sorry that i did not post that story here last night but i had thought that it is too off topic. However, i had that news earlier than CNN and BBC last night.
I have just one question, perhaps james could answer:
From moscow to Bolivia the closest route would be going to the North and then crossing Canada and the USA. Passing europe, the Atlantic Ocean and Brasil is maybe a sightseeing trip but it makes no sense unless you want to avoid the USA.
James, do you agree?
I believe that them using this strange route from moscow made the flight suspicious for CIA and NATO.
This youtube link (Lindauer interview) is a “must see” and it might fit well into the Chevaline event.
Lindauer is talking about Iraq, 9/11 and whistleblowers. Lindauer worked with the Iraqi UN ambassador in New York as a CIA covert spy. She says that Bush and Cheney knew about 9/11 already in April 2001 and that Iraq was their planned victim.
As a U.S. Intelligence Asset, Susan Lindauer covered anti-terrorism at the Iraqi Embassy in New York from 1996 up to the invasion. Independent sources have confirmed that she gave advance warning about the 9/11 attack. She also started talks for the Lockerbie Trial with Libyan diplomats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnCIVeX0Ukc
That was fascinating Straw44berry
3 Jul, 2013 – 8:46 pm. In fact it was a “Fab One”!
Yup – interesting Bluebird
3 Jul, 2013 – 11:38 pm. I got her book a couple of years back. She was locked up incommunicado for years with no charges if I remember rightly under the wonderful patriot act. All the wrong ppl locked up i think?
Tim V, I saw your comment in the other place. If you’ll permit me to interject with my “profiling’ of blog commentary forums:
I think you may have fallen into one of the older and best used traps used to keep limits on groups. You allowed yourself to get rankled when to me it was obvious there was an intent to rankle. The reasons for this “boundary setting” are simple – i referred in my post above to the cliques – the “In Girls” or the “popular girls” – a common phenomenon in American High schools (may be you don’t have such in Europe? or not so extreme?). These groups set boundaries on “membership” that are invisible to the casual observer but crystal clear to those who are in the know. these “silk threads” confine as much as they exclude and have much in common with the way tribalism works. The “In” group assures a certain exclusivity by moving the bar ever higher, all the better to make entry by outsiders more difficult. They have codes of communications (tea and biscuits?), manners of behavior (knowing when and to whom to pay deference), respect for internal hierarchy and a certainf disdain for those not of their group ((where have they been all this time? don’t they know we have gone over this hundred times over? the nerve!).
Now, does this sound similar to the way the class system works in Britain? isn’t the class code (very much still alive despite rumors to its demise) one part accent, one part “manners” and one part heredity? (yes, in case you wonder, I am writing an essay about just that – the similarities and differences between tribes, classes and castes. Drawing parallels to high school cliques – especially girls – is my little contribution to the universe. Any and all insight from you and others – including references – will be most appreciated. especially on accents….remember I have already admitted to not being a brit – though am not denying it’s a place i hung out in now and then. not telling where or when…).
back to the point: you Tim V ) have dared to crash the party. The “know it all” accusation is usually just the first salvo, typically directed at newcomers, who deign to indulge in analysis at any length. Worse yet, you have been making gains (ouch!) and swaying opinion (thus challenging the “boundaries”). So, it was time for a little slap-down – usually not quite justified – and usually delivered by one or more key insiders – almost always a female because it is meant to rankle a “male” in a “hit and run” operation. To which the only good response is to ignore it altogether. but you serious-minded person who believes in the power of logic. And, as you may have noticed, it is the males where you make the most gains. That will be taken as a challenge, like throwing the gauntlet, as it disrupts some mysterious existing dynamics. They can’t possibly let you (or me, for that matter) become a new “popular girl” (I use “girls” because i like the analogy to cliques, for some reason. Makes it look like the side comedy that it is, even when tragic events are discussed. No gender bending intended). Hence the “under the belt’ tactics. What cannot be gained through exercise of logic and counter-point debates, can be gained through emotion. You displayed some. Bingo!
Hope people don’t mind me ruminating on such OT matters. But i already confessed to being a female myself (whether you believe it or not), though given that my thought processes are rather on the analytic side (obviously) allowed me a certain off-the-beaten-track perspective.
I guess, I am trying to say that you should re-evaluate and stick it out for a little longer. I think the history they are collating is useful, and there’s new life in the group as data and facts are being re-positioned and re-evaluated. things take time to sink in. And, as I said before, I do understand that people there have put in many hours constructing and re-constructing scenarios and timelines, so a certain resentment of the “johnny-come-latelys’ who don’t know their “bible”, and don’t recognize the high priests, is to be expected.
that being said, I rather do like the dynamics here on CM, which is on the flexible side, and is definitely more free-roaming (hey those of us left are proper conspiracy-buffs with a healthy respect for all authority.. There are no groups, only individuals, who change their minds and propose new and even far-fetched connections and theories. But darn, no one extended anyone any tea invitations [yet].
In return for such “pearls’ (whether real or faux) all I ask are some good references on the history and histrionics of English accents. Looks fair to me….
I meant “healthy DIS-respect for all authority”, of course. I think this could have been a freudian slip at the behest of our Prism watchers.
Long live the Panopticon! (see how good I am?)
Blue.
To be honest the route isn’t a bad one.
Across Spain, to Cadiz area then straight out to Brazil.
I do that route.
But go “heavy” crewed.
You can get up to the thinner air of 50,000 feet and there’s no “bumps” in the road.
I think FAB 001 is a Falcon (900 EX).
I have an extra 2000 nm’s to play with, they don’t.
And I’d be going to Sao Paulo…they are going on.
@Marlin – The British class system: when you understand it let us know 🙂 As a Brit I’m sure I don’t understand it. I’ve always thought it had its roots in the Norman conquest and having a ruling group with a different language & culture.
As for the “other place” – I do recognise your analysis (in fact it is one of the reasons I have stopped visiting there). I could even put a name to your self styled queen bee. I couldn’t decide if there was more behind it though (eg a deliberate attempt to keep discussion away from certain areas). I’m glad to see that this thread has been free of the attentions of the resident trolls that infest most of Craig’s current threads.
Thank you james
I had the impression that the shortest route from moscow to la paz would be further north, passing south scandinavia and the UK. Thanks for clearifying.
Blue…
I didn’t clear anything up.
I merely said a GV (Gulfstream 5) there isn’t an issue.
That’s from Paris to Sao Paulo.
Min pax, three four bars….and have a bit of shut eye.
That aircraft was a Falcon (900 EX).
I have never flown a Falcon. EX or “Easy”.
But that is ONE long route.
2000 nm’s is quite a “margin”.
You only need a few hundred nautical miles to crash in !
Blue…
Read my other post.
And I’ll add. Shortest route is…
We climb fast. Faster than an “airliner”.
We want “max” alt. 50/51 thousand.
The air is thin. The fuel needed is less.
But you still need “fuel” plus “margin”.
And you need rest in that “7 hours plus” route. Well I do.
If they were “forced down” at Vienna. I suspect they were taking on fuel…and some.
I doubt a 900 could do “Massive Cow” (it’s a big “cow”) to where they were going… in “one hop”.
I wouldn’t.
But they may (MAY) have extra “long rangers” on. I have no idea how they config their A/C.
I’d be “pan pan pan” ing it !
Marlin
4 Jul, 2013 – 1:02 am – as usual I think your analysis is “spot-on” though I never would have guessed you were female! That was quite a surprise I must say. I know “throwing in the towel” is interpreted as weakness and defeat. However there comes a point where you take the hint, and accept you are not wanted. My consolation, which also confirmed my “persona non grata” status, is that my contributions undermined to some extent “Lynda’s” complacency and sycophancy, and helped to fundamentally change the opinions of some, including “Max” in relation to those tracks. The significance of that of course is the involvement of a 4×4 and a “team” rather than just one crazed individual that EM tried to push at one stage. I have no problem with someone arguing a theory in opposition to my own. What makes me suspicious is when someone who supports every nuance of the official line, refuses to admit obvious facts and their implications. Despite ZAH being arrested “on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder”, Lynda could profess to “being tired of those who saw conspiracy everywhere” – clearly a “dig” at me. However I couldn’t accept her charge that I was just a “bully”, or worse Marilyn supporting her unjustified and damaging allegation. Next to rape, to be a bully is a nasty charge that can have far reaching consequences. Just as I am adamantly opposed to bullying I am adamantly against the use of the term when it is unjustified. Marilyn compounded the thing with a biased and sarcastic intervention that convinced me it wasn’t I place I wanted to remain. So farewell MZT. It was a brief but not altogether unproductive association. Oh and p.s. congratulations on your research, your observations on which I quite agree. The subtleties of human acceptance and rejection are limitless and don’t I know it. No one is exempt, either as recipient or cause. Subjectively we all have to come to terms with our achievements and status. If we “fail” we are likely to appeal to “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know”. The Eton success story it’s more likely to ascribe to the classical dictum: “faber est quisque fortunae suae”.
Nothing new! “We have ways and means of keeping an eye on you”.
Jeremy Bentham (the promoter of “your” Panopticon Marlin) “remained bitter about the rejection of the Panopticon scheme throughout his later life, convinced that it had been thwarted by the King and an aristocratic elite. It was largely because of his sense of injustice that he developed his ideas of “sinister interest”—that is, of the vested interests of the powerful conspiring against a wider public interest—which underpinned many of his broader arguments for reform.” WIKIPEDIA
FUCKING HELL TIM !
Start spacing things out !
Jon, delete Tim’s last post…make him write it in a more readable style.
I’m sure there are good points… I just can’t see ’em !
Enjoying the skid marks discussion on MZT and had a thought…..
Do the skid marks suggest the type of manoeuvre that a driver that had been on a Security Driving Course?
Had Saad ever been on such a course?
Marlin !
Take a look at “blog” behavior now !
MZT has asked me to “leave”. I pointed out that as she is commercial blog…she cant do that !
At least Craig is on the side of the Rebel !
VIVA EL REBEL !
Bugger! The French knew exactly with whom Saad has had a chat in that internet cafe. And they knew exactly with whom SM, WBM and Saad had phoned in the days and hours before the event ! They simply dont make any use that information. WHY?
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/04/france-electronic-spying-operation-nsa
France runs a vast electronic surveillance operation, intercepting and stocking data from citizens’ phone and internet activity, using similar methods to the US National Security Agency’s Prism programme exposed by Edward Snowden, Le Monde has reported.
Blue !
Check who Gary Aked works for now !
No great shakes like….but the make planes….and trains !
Trying my my “balls on the wall” to speak to “James/fat bastard” but the feckers at at MZT are keeping him a secret.
Guess thay don’t want that. Even MZT has “come out” now !
I suspect a “commercial enterprise” at work here. Namely hers !
Could someone please try to identify the model of car in photo 3 of 9 and see if it is a possible match for the skid marks. Just to rule out the possibility.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Oz-wa3joezMJ:france.silverfernsussex.co.uk/gallery.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk
Thanks
James
Do you mean Bombardier?
I see that Aked has got a lot of Bombardier contacts but i cannot find a link for him being employed at Bombardier. He studied engineering at the university of surrey class of 1982 (saad?) and he still has a lot of fb friends from the university of surrey.
What is quite interesting is that Aked is a member of that group:
http://www.angelmountain.net/en
A community of creative Christians passionate about music, worship and the arts.
Mission
To encourage, train and equip radical worshippers.
Company Overview
We are a cross-denominational Christian community involved in music and the arts, helping people to find their creative voice and identity and encouraging them in their faith. We are based in the UK and the Czech Republic.
Bbb
“Do you mean Bombardier?”
Yep.
Rail and planes.
Aked is a …..lets say best friend !
The Last Post.
Who gives a fuck…he’s dead !
Don’t drive into lonely carparks is the take home message.
Boom !
As you probably remember BB I made that point nine months ago. Your Le Monde article merely confirms it as it relates to France. It’s what makes Hollande’s protest hypocritical.
Leaders of western democracies are fully aware of the extent of telephonic and internet traffic. It has been an established tactic of SS since immediately after the Second WW Britain managed to intercept all the Russian telephone by tunnelling under the cobbled streets of Vienna.
All governments are up to their eyes in surveillance. Computers have vastly increased their ability to record for all time, so that should the need arise, certain individuals or functionaries of the state have at their disposal this HUGE power whenever they choose.
I have no doubt at all (as I have said before) that between the French and British alone, both the Al Hilli’s and Mollier’s communications leading up to the slaughter have been fully mapped. It is inconceivable this has not thrown a searchlight on contacts and reasons that make EM’s comments on the Romania simply laughable.