The mainstream media for the most part has moved on. But there are a few more gleanings to be had, of perhaps the most interesting comes from the Daily Mirror, which labels al-Hilli an extremist on the grounds that he was against the war in Iraq, disapproved of the behaviour of Israel and had doubts over 9/11 – which makes a great deal of the population “extremist”. But the Mirror has the only mainstream mention I can find of the possibility that Mossad carried out the killings. Given Mr al-Hilli’s profession, the fact he is a Shia, the fact he had visited Iran, and the fact that Israel heas been assassinating scientists connected to Iran’s nuclear programme, this has to be a possibility. There are of course other possibilities, but to ignore that one is ludicrous.
Which leads me to the argument of Daily Mail crime reporter, Stephen Wright, that the French police should concentrate on the idea that this was a killing by a random Alpine madman or racist bigot. Perfectly possible, of course, and the anti-Muslim killings in Marseille might be as much a precedent as Mossad killings of scientists. But why the lone madman idea should be the preferred investigation, Mr Wright does not explain. What I did find interesting from a man who has visited many crime scenes are his repeated insinuations that the French authorities are not really trying very hard to find who the killers were, for example:
the crime scene would have been sealed off for a minimum of seven to ten days, to allow detailed forensic searches for DNA, fibres, tyre marks and shoe prints to take place.
Nearby bushes and vegetation would have been searched for any discarded food and cigarette butts left by the killer, not to mention the murder weapon.
But from what I saw at the end of last week, no such searches had taken place and potentially vital evidence could have been missed. House to house inquiries in the local area had yet to be completed and police had not made specific public appeals for information about the crime. No reward had been put up for information about the shootings.
Behind the scenes, what other short cuts have been taken? Have police seized data identifying all mobile phones being used in the vicinity of the murders that day?
The idea that the French authorities – who are quite as capable as any other of solving cases – are not really trying very hard is an interesting one.
Which leads me to this part of a remarkable article from the Daily Telegraph, which if true points us back towards a hit squad and discounts the ides that there was only one gun:
Claims that only one gun was used to kill everybody is likely to be disproved by full ballistics test results which are out in October.
While the 25 spent bullet cartridges found at the scene are all of the same kind, they could in fact have come from a number of weapons of the same make.
This throws up the possibility of a well-equipped, highly-trained gang circling the car and then opening fire.
Both children were left alive by the killers, who had clinically pumped bullets into everybody else, including five into Mr Mollier.
Zainab was found staggering around outside the car by Brett Martin, a British former RAF serviceman who cycled by moments after the attack, but he saw nobody except the schoolgirl.
Her sister, Zeena, was found unscathed and hiding in the car eight hours later.
Both sisters are now back in Britain, and are believed to have been reunited at a secret location near London.
There are of course a number of hit squad options, both governmental and private, which might well involve iraqi or Iranian interests – on both of which the mainstream media have been very happy to speculate while almost unanimously ignoring Israel.
But what interests me is why the Daily Telegraph choose, in the face of all the evidence, to minimise the horrific nature of the attack by stating that “Both children were left alive by the killers”? Zainab was not left alive by design, she was shot in the chest and her skull was stove in, which presumably was a pretty serious attempt to kill a seven year-old child. The other girl might very well have succeeded in hiding from the killers under her mother’s skirts, as she hid from the first rescuers, and then for eight hours from the police.
The Telegraph article claims to be informed by sources close to the investigation. So they believe it was a group of people, and feel motivated to absolve those people from child-killing. Now what could the Daily Telegraph be thinking?
@bleb post on 11 Jul, 2013 – 12:42 am
> but if your killer(s) choose France for “an easy getaway” why
> stir up an unnecessary hornets nest by killing two other
> family members and a French national you hadn’t been
> paid/ordered to kill?
I wouldn’t describe it as “an easy getaway”, in fact I think it would make the “getaway” part harder. However, having gotten away without obvious trace, back to home territory, I think the perp(s) would be much safer.
This case has made it clear to me that European police forces have organizationally lagged the general integration trend and are ill-prepared for any increase in trans-border crime. This hasn’t been previously evident because most crime is local.
France does seem to have some “advantages” particularly a lack of video cameras.
As to why kill the other family members and a frenchman, maybe it was just self-protection, the killer simply eliminating witnesses.
M @ 12 Jul, 2013 – 3:00 pm
Max – sorry if my response upset you. I think you (and maybe others?) are making too much of this inter blog hostility business.
Anyway your photo was lost on me, but I’m glad to see not on others (James, GIP etc).
I was however curious as to the origins of your photo. You have to admit you introduced it in a somewhat mysterious fashion. If you have more or care to share your enhancement technique why not share here?
FWIW I always found your posts on MZT (when I read there) to be well thought out and you to be open minded. I’m sure you will find you are more than welcome here even if this blog has a somewhat different style to MZT.
@tim v
I just looked up false flag
I hardly see how linking to Saad (and Zaids) public phone details and address might be
somehow untrue
Re computers : Saad had at least 10 486SX computers in his rear garage
in the shed there were workstations for 4 cad machines
however Ikbal had taken over the shed to revise her dentistry
(her head and shoulders doll was what spooked the bomb squad !)
In saads upstairs office he had a desktop with two screens and maximum ram
with his licensed copy of Solid works and his laptop
Ikbals laptop was mostly in the rear sitting room next to the french windows ..as i remember it had an external wireless card and was used for ebay mostly and to watch postman pat cds
Max, thanks for the greatly enhanced photo _ i haven’t finished pouring over it. Don’t mind people here too much, it’s a bit of a gruff group, if not ill meaning.
and Bleb, yes, we have seen this picture before but Max has done a great job enhancing it, so that details of the driver side can be seen with greater clarity and there are other items in the photo that come into focus, which I need to compare with other material I have. So, I concur with james and now you be nice and say thank you. It does take some work enhancing these pictures and I, for one, have been stomped in a couple of instances I tried when my own tools turned up not to be up to snuff. So you be nice now, OK? I want MORE gifts to come this way (as long as it’s not cash -or equivalent – that WOULD make me suspicious…).
Tim V< I know you spent "hours" (by your own admission) pouring over the various photos and markings – such as were visible. Does anything strike you as different in Max's photo? james noted a few things – the obviously broken/missing roof rack and the folded blue cover on the lower left (at the spot that you tried to figure out before). I didn't quite get Max's comment either; may be too subtle for me?),
Thank you Max, for the photo. I’m glad others are getting something out of it. Hope that clears the air.
Is “thechevalinekillings.files.wordpress.com” your own private blog?
On Max’s pic you can see the drag mark on the road in front of the car and there are other pics showing more of it on MZT, if that is the bike drag mark do you think the bike ended up there ?
If that was the bike then someone had a reason to move it or “Throw into the corner of the parking” as was said by EM.
That Barratt Brown @ http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13765 Bluebird, is I think an indicator of what society is up against. There is a Stalinist tone to the new, by this I mean post 2000, US government. There is no doubt that the freedom of the internet, and Wikileaks in particular, has shaken them up to such an extent, they are now prepared to pursue anyone who even reports on material “illegally” obtained, even if is in the public good to have uncovered illegal conspiracies and acts. Can we expect other after the debacle of 9/11? Forget the constitution and forget the bill of rights. Let’s just incarcerate people whenever the mood takes us. Journalists will soon be forced to “go underground” at this rate. Meanwhile here in Britain we are experiencing a little bit of the downside of privatising everything to do with the justice system – probation and courts in the pipeline. G4S and Serco fraud @ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/g4s-and-serco-face-50-million-fraud-inquiry-8703245.html
Iraq is hugely complicated. By and large, for the average Briton, including myself, it could be summed up by saying Sadaam was a bad man who was willing and able to attack us so we had to teach him a lesson.
For SAH it must have been VERY different, aware of all the political nuances and developments. How useful would that be to the British Government? I have little doubt he was a one-man “Stratfor” that companies have to pay millions for!
Here’s just a little bit of it, that would have meant far more to SAH than to us even now. It’s what makes me highly suspicious of certain “sources” that want us to believe that SAH was just an ordinary British family guy, with no government connections; that the murders at Chevaline were just ordinary crimes; and that the criminal investigation is genuine.
“SOURCE: ME1479
ATTRIBUTION: STRATFOR source
SOURCE DESCRIPTION: Iraqi military analyst
PUBLICATION: Yes
SOURCE RELIABILITY: B-C
ITEM CREDIBILITY: B
SPECIAL HANDLING: Alpha
SOURCE HANDLER: Reva
the 26,000 figure understates the number of Iraqi intelligence operatives
during the regime of Saddam Hussein. He says the intelligence apparatus
expanded after 1991, and certainly exceeded 40,000 agents/collaborators.
He says Shahrawani used at least two thousand operatives frm Saddam’s
intelligence apparatus in INIS. Iranians eventually killed more than 500
of them and the authorities imprisoned an additional number of 700. Others
were recruited by the U.S. and Syria to operate inside Iraq, and several
hundreds of the more professional ones ended up working in Yemeni
intelligence or employed by private Lebanese security companies. He says
at least 4,000 of them joined al-Sahwa councils and many others simply
became part of Iraq’s organized crime.
Iyyad Allawi created GSD on July 15, 2004 after a spate of explosions and
and kidnappings. He says the creation of the new apparatus occurred with
the blessing and cooperation of the CIA. It included about 4,000 members,
many of whom from Saddam Hussein’s mukhabarat (best known as al-maktab
al-Thani, or second bureau). He says GSD included both Sunnis and Alawites
since Allawi, as a secular politician was not aversive to cooperation with
Sunnis. My source says GSD was not very successful. He says that its main
components included a criminological investigative department, a
counterinsurgency department, preventive security department and a
research department. , GSD was affiliated with the ministry of interior
and also with the ministry of justice, mainly because Allawi reinstated
capital punishment in August 2004.”
That follows on from your post Bluebird
12 Jul, 2013 – 10:53 am
@Tim V: No need for journos to go underground. Most of them have stopped asking important questions, like “why”. When you don’t ask important questions, there is nothing to fear.
Bloggers are the new journalists, it seems. Maybe we should blame Hunter S. Thompson for the current state of affairs.
Sorry Bleb
12 Jul, 2013 – 10:53 am – I’m easily confused. I did puzzle over why FB posted the two Claygates though.
M
12 Jul, 2013 – 12:00 am that’s a good photo. I’ve just taken a look. Thanks if you have enhanced it. You can almost work out the lab boss man’s face on it and the neatly folded sheet that a previous shot shows them looking under. Whatever was under it has gone unless it was just something like a blood stain or maybe the gun part?
Good In Parts
12 Jul, 2013 – 6:10 pm what photo are you looking at that shows bloodstains on the headrest. ref would be appreciated as i cant see it on the one m kindly posted. thanks.
Nice domestic touch “Fat Bastard
12 Jul, 2013 – 7:53 pm”. “Ikbals laptop was mostly in the rear sitting room next to the french windows ..as i remember it had an external wireless card and was used for ebay mostly and to watch postman pat cds” If you had to look up “false flag” (I had to look up “glottal stop”) you are obviously an innocent with inside information of the most revealing kind. Care to divulge what SAH did with all that computer power? I hardly know how to use one.
Saad ran cad on his computers
and if you look up what a 486 sx does you will know that rusting was mostly what they did in the back garage 😉
I was often round the house and Saad came to ours
strangely im not followed by special branch
but they wont let me see the kids
🙁
Fat Bastard @ 13 Jul, 2013 – 12:59 am
“… strangely im not followed by special branch …”
Do you think you would know if you were? BTW I’m not suggesting you are being followed 😉
Any reason stated as to why they won’t let you see the children?
@Tim V post on 13 Jul, 2013 – 12:42 am
The apparent bloodstains on the driver headrest and the part of the seat closest the driver door is visible in the enhanced photo linked by M:-
http://deadzone61.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/112636787_fra_333662y_proc.jpg
They are also visible in the original photo, which appears generally washed out.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636787_fra_333662y.jpg
I found it easier to see if I opened both photos in separate tabs, zoomed both to 200% then switched back and forth between the tabs.
Max’s version, for which I thank him, makes some things much easier to see, such as the edges of the hole broken in the driver side door window.
Pink
12 Jul, 2013 – 10:28 pm You say: “On Max’s pic you can see the drag mark on the road in front of the car and there are other pics showing more of it on MZT, if that is the bike drag mark do you think the bike ended up there ?”
I must admit I can’t see the drag marks to which you refer, or for that matter the blood stains on the headrest. Could be my brain, my eyes or wrong photo. (So many options) All I know is (as a daily bike rider) bikes have very “sticky-out bits” that if caught under a vehicle and pushed, apart from causing major problems for the vehicle would leave very pronounced score marks. I can’t see any that would match.
Then the clincher I think are the indicators as to the condition of the bike itself. We have a couple of shots of the bike on the back of the transporter and now the distant aerial shot that appears to include it. On the former particularly, there is NO EVIDENCE of a badly damaged wheel which is always the first to go.
As far as I can see there is nothing to support the theory of a dragged bicycle. Indeed its location at the top end supports this view. I do not believe at such a savage crime scene the bike would have been moved before the forensics were finished. From the photo we see they weren’t so it is safer to assume the bike location is where SM left it, on the side of the road he would have used, being France.
However I do find it rather strange the blaze manner in which they appear to deal with the blood stains in the gravel. These are critical for any subsequent reconstruction and for biological fingerprinting and estimates of quantity etc.
I would have thought a fist step would have been to tape them off and only allow white coats into that space to sample and label up. Then to photo and locate accurately. Then to collect up all remnants asap and certainly before allowing the press hoards in.
Instead the photos indicate three of the many uniformed officers actually on top of the stained ground. They appear to be quite unaware of any need to protect those areas before they are collected (if they were) as distinct from being cleaned up.
And what is that policeman doing under the car? It can’t be just looking for a towing point as they are always more accessibly located. I have though but never asked this question before and haven’t seen anyone else do so although they may have.
Then finally, I can see clearly TWO bullet holes in the driver’s door, one above the other suggesting two deadly accurate (head) shots. (Note they are to the rear, just forward of the front seat) The big hole, supporting WBM’s story could have contained further bullet holes, although I think this was somewhat unlikely, given the spacial location of the driver. What is clear these could only have been delivered by an assailant next to the car with gun in close proximity to the window but it is unclear whether this was done as the car moved backwards (more tricky but likely) or when it had come to rest against the bank.
CORRECTIONS sorry
“I would have thought a FIRST step”
“I have THOUGHT but never asked this question before”
Oh yes I see now Good In Parts
13 Jul, 2013 – 1:22 am. It certainly suggests SAH slumped to his right (our left) in a semi upright position (not over the wheel as some graphics suggested) after being shot.
meant to add a “thankyou” there GIPs
Re
The children
they have been taken by Surrey social services
and are being held against their will
indoors with no schooling
one family member is allowed 1 hour a week contact
and this changes randomly
@Fat Bastard
13 Jul, 2013 – 1:55 am
That is terrible, but I can only assume that SSS assesses the risk to the girls to be such that this draconian action is necessary.
You know, the welfare of the children being the paramount consideration.
Tim V 1:40AM – I see what looks like three bullet holes in the driver’s window, the third being below the shattered glass. Am I mistaking that third hole for something else?
So, a question – through which window were the women in the back shot? this photo does not show a bullet hole in the back window driver side – may be just because of the angle?
Completely agree with you about the cavalier fashion in which the blood stains are treated. Do they actually believe they got all the information out of them by that time? even if they took samples earlier, given it’s been just 24 hours at most by the time this photo is taken, it is truly unbelievable they wouldn’t have that area marked and cordoned off.
In any crime scne anywhere in the world there would be a yellow tape surrounding the entire scne for days, with lab people only allowed to come in and take more samples or check again for clues.
And how long after this photo that they allowed the whole gang of journalists in?
More fodder for those of us who refuse to give up on the possibility of extraction.
I have been comparing BTW this photo with the other one that shows the tracks. So far, couple of things don’t check out too well, but no Eureka moment just yet. I wish my eye sight was keener.
FB and all,
There can really be just one reason the girls are not let out of social services and family members are permitted short visits. And only family members, if they are not allowing visit by family friends.
they must be concerned for the girls’ safety and can’t trust anyone with unsupervised visits. Not because those people are suspect but because someone else could get to the girls through them. So they keep a very tight control on the situation.
This can only mean the girls lives are believed to be in danger from corners and directions unknown to us. But whoever it is there’s obviously a belief that they have considerable power, or such extremem measures would not be necessary.
As we said many times before, something is wrong with the whole picture on way too many levels to believe that it was just ‘a little’ local crime that went out of control. I would be more inclined to believe in the “local” angle if only it was treated as such by the authorities. But it doesn’t add up.
FB, given that this is so, perhaps you shouldn’t tell us too much?
Mochyn69, I just noticed your comment. i guess you believe as I do about the assessment of risk to the girls, expressing it that much more succintly.
As my capcha says: 1+1 = 2
@
Tim V 1:40 am
Heres a bigger picture of the black mark, if you look at the 2 men on the road stood by a pink spot there is a black mark curving towards the bald man in a white jacket stood near the ramp.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636811_fr_333658y.jpg
@ Max
Did you enhance what looks like a bloodstain on the road behind the nearest of the 2 policemen stood at the pink spot?
The “Max cleared” photo.
One thing about the picture is that it shows the drivers side of the car. And due to the clarity various things can be seen.
From that (as GiP noted from my “shot gun ?” question) is that Saad may have been “up against” the drivers door (or leaning that way).
If that is so, then due to forces applied on a “non braced” person it is quite possible that he would be leaning that way if he had reversed into that position from an earlier 90 degrees or 180 degrees “starting point”.
Bearing that in mind (and BMW’s DSC) the drivers side rear wheel would be the one with most traction. The inner wheel, less.
With that much “power” going through that wheel at (and after) the time of impact, it may well have “pulled” the vehicles front end (the “non driven” front wheels) further over (in the direction of the “drivers side”).
It could be therefore likely that the vehicle started in a 90 degrees position to it’s “end point”. Or even a 180 degrees position.
By the way…
My 8.02 comment does not mean that I believe the marks at the far end of the car park are to do with Saad !
The “police” say “he reversed from there.
This of course before the police even mentioned the UK BMW 4×4.
I say that he did reverse…and from a position 90 to 180 degrees from his end point.
So he’s a thought.
The tracks at the far end of the car park are made by a BMW 4×4.
Some people say “well the police would know that already, they’d check the trye marks stupid”.
Of course they would. And did. And they know.
But remember “the police didn’t released everything anyway !”.
So the 4×4 is at the top of the car park.
And Saad is reversing (maybe from some point in the middle of the road) …and of course he doesn’t hit that 2nd BMW.
MAYBE he’s even reversing AFTER he has been outside his car !!!
Here’s a possible explanation.
Saad KNEW who was in that 2nd BMW ?
@Marlin
regarding the girls
Note i did no say where they are
and I think I should say more and more until the people who have lied to me about the girls are brought to justice .
I think it is too late for Zainab shes very upset
but Zeeena might recover if she gets to see daylight and gets cuddles from people she loves
My MP wrote to social services on my behalf
but they just fobbed him off
at least he tried