Edward Snowden Gets Sam Adams Award

by craig on October 11, 2013 9:28 am in Uncategorized

Ray McGovern and the Sam Adams party have presented the Sam Adams award to Edward Snowden.  I am delighted.  This from Ray’s account of the event:

In brief remarks from his visitors, Snowden was reassured — first and foremost — that he need no longer be worried that nothing significant would happen as a result of his decision to risk his future by revealing documentary proof that the U.S. government was playing fast and loose with the Constitutional rights of Americans.

Even amid the government shutdown, Establishment Washington and the normally docile “mainstream media” have not been able to deflect attention from the intrusive eavesdropping that makes a mockery of the Fourth Amendment. Even Congress is showing signs of awaking from its torpor.

In the somnolent Senate, a few hardy souls have gone so far as to express displeasure at having been lied to by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander — Clapper having formally apologized for telling the Senate Intelligence Committee eavesdropping-related things that were, in his words, “clearly erroneous” and Alexander having told now-discredited whoppers about the effectiveness of NSA’s intrusive and unconstitutional methods in combating terrorism.

Coleen Rowley, the first winner of the Sam Adams Award (2002), cited some little-known history to remind Snowden that he is in good company as a whistleblower — and not only because of previous Sam Adams honorees. She noted that in 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then-Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British Prime Minister.

The letters suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary. The content of the letters was so damaging to the British government that Benjamin Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and had to endure an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.

There has been a determined attempt by government to justify the need to intercept everybody’s communications, all the time.  We have, yet again, had MI5 claim there are many thousand violent Islamic terrorists running around the UK, (yet somehow not managing to kill anybody).  The cry of “paedophiles” is raised, as always.  I can imagine them suggesting the entire population be shot dead, and justifying it as making sure they get the paedophiles.  The tabloids would go with that.

There still had not been a single credible claim by the mainstream media that any named individual has died, despite that contingency being trotted out all the time as the reason Snowden and Manning should not have revealed state crimes and abuse of power.  I am hopeful that, with the internet still largely free to the dissemination of information, out next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.

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  1. Good news. While this award is not necessarily a protective shield, it does provide some warning of toxicity to those in the US who want to see Snowden convicted of some serious offences to put him away in a supermax. Gaoling award winners is not a good look for self-proclaimed champions of “Freedom and Democracy”.

    Also interesting how risks of death from information revelations are supposed to be more serious than actual deaths from American misadventures.

  2. Here’s a fantastic whistleblower… Senior Counsel for the World Bank legal department

  3. Well done to Edward Snowden, but his one major error was in revealing details of governments spying on each other, something we would expect them to do. Though I have no particular objection to his having done this, it does allow his opponents to paint him as a traitor. Had he stuck to NSA/GCHQ spying on ordinary people, he would have had an unanswerable case and I very much doubt anyone would have the balls to prosecute him.

  4. Yes, for all these revelations are welcome, I see no sign whatsoever that this spying apparatus will be rolled back. There is the usual piffle about reform – aka, legalising dubious policy – but no acceptance whatsoever that anyone in power has done anything wrong. It’s rather sinister actually. Now it’s all out in the open, we just have to wear it. And if it’s ethically dubious, illegal, or (in the US) unconstitutional, so what? they seem to be asking us.

    Troubling. I have been pondering anew the prevalence of CCTV cameras. I have a camera in my apartment buildings, my walk to work is covered by cameras, which are also on public transport, and in my actual work building, cameras on every floor. I am – literally – covered all day by Sauron’s all-seeing eye. This has all just been accepted with a shrug, and police PR regularly telling us how murderers get caught all the time by this surveillance, and it’s a price worth paying.

    Is it? Bad people used to get nabbed all the time, it was called police work, and it was difficult, and required training and skill, but it happened. Now? Everything is caught on CCTV, leaked to the papers pre-trial, and that’s the end of the investigation. But would these people get caught without CCTV? That’s not an easy question to answer – but I note no police bother to ask it. There is also the other question – motive. If you catch someone on CCTV, you don’t have to bother asking about motive, or proving motive, but it’s still important.

    I’m not sure. But the distant ennui, the vague indefinable sense of shame at being on-camera all day, and the troubling worries about the power of future dictatorships are serious matters, I think. And nobody in power seems to care. Indeed, as Snowden shows us, they want more, not less, of this kind of thing. A mindset that baffles me, to say the least.

  5. well done the committee for awarding Edward Snowden, well deserved. His historic actions will be seen as a turn around of trust and relations between Governments and people.

    Thanks for the link to Karen Hudes, Rich, another one of a valuable few.
    More and more the rays of sunshine will break through the fraud, the steaming gloom heaped upon humanity by banks, federal reserves, central banks and stockbroking firms gambling their way through uncertain futures.
    She deserves praise for the way she reveals whats going on.

  6. Congratulations to Edward Snowden and also for his nomination tor the Nobel Peace Prize which is announced today. In regards to that prize would like to congratulate Malala Yousafzai, 16 year-old living in Birmingham, for what she has tried to do for female education. She is the MSM favourite, promoted at every opportunity.

    However the public Guardian readers preferred Bradley Manning who was nominated Guardian Personality of the year with 70% of the vote. He is also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize but because this is a very establishment prize, neither he nor ‘Chelsea’ Manning are likely to win it.

    I do sincerely congratulate Malala Yousafzai because with all the mass murderers like Begin, Sadat and Obama bringing disgrace to the name ‘peace prize’ she will elevate it a little.

    I couldn’t be wrong with this premature speculation could I? Answer you trolls.

  7. Data-mining at GCHQ is a complex art. Data-sets contain your activities online and may include information from communication intercepts. This information will compute to a ‘score’ similar to credit rating which determines a personal ‘threat’ to the ‘establishment’ norms.

    This endemic sur­veillance programme has in truth failed to expose any kosher British terrorist plots and British oversight laws preventing bugging are impotent. In fact the three primary UK intelligence agencies are the least accountable and most legally pro­tec­ted in any western democracy.

    The agencies are exempt from any real and meaningful oversight and are also protected against disclosure by the draconian 1989 Official Secrets Act, designed specifically to criminalise whistleblowers, as well as having a raft of legislation to suppress media reporting should such disclosures emerge.

    Applications to monitor and eavesdrop are tick-box type forms where the authorising authority receives only a summary of a summary ad infinitum for signature and that authority is under ‘pressure’ in case something literally blows up further downstream.

    In a nut-shell the intelligence complaints procedure favors the spies and the Intelligence and Security Committee in Parliament are either ignored OR LIED TO by top special cops or spooks; remember the current chair, Sir Malcolm Rifkind is the man who cleared GCHQ’s endemic data-mining as lawful and the committee is chosen by the PM on advice(ie ‘yes’ men) answerable only to the PM and the PM can vet the findings to achieve the status quo.

    Without a free WWW as ‘one’s space’ where we can all read, write, listen and discuss ideas freely and in privacy, we are all living in an Orwellian dystopia, and we are all potentially at risk from black-mail, accusations of sedition and sabotage of our minds.

  8. John, “premature speculation” is nothing to be ashamed of, everyone’s been there at least once.

  9. “OPCW has NOT been given the #NobelPeacePrize because of Syria but because of its long standing work.” – fuckin lying corrupt bastards.

  10. Surveillance – it’s big business.


    Note the concentration on cellphone detection and interception (“small base stations”). With voice recognition packages….

    There’s no need to make private conversations illegal these days. There’s no such thing.

  11. As I said on the ‘Now Sue Me’ thread, congratulations to Edward Snowden and all the previous Sam Adams Award winners.


    Sam Adams – whistleblower Vietnam War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_A._Adams

    This will go down like a lead balloon with Messrs Obama and Kerry and Gen Alexander.

    ‘The father of fugitive former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden is in Russia to visit his son.

    Lon Snowden told journalists in Moscow he felt “extreme gratitude that my son is safe and secure and he’s free”. He later met his son, local media say.’


  12. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 2:56 pm

    Ah, Bit of great news for Whistle blowers Long overdue, well done Mr Snowden.


    Second the heads up by Nevermind for for the link to Karen Hudes


    i put up a link to One of your main interests – 0n the –
    OK, Now You Sue Me! Thread, Re Rodger Waters.

  13. I spy with my little eye somone begining with….”M”


    In other news Malala is not going to the Moon, at least not until she trains to become an astronaut, and this just in; Malala has just had her lunch. More on this breaking story as we get it.

  14. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 3:15 pm


    Looks like the Nobel Committee are are trying to hide behind the truth – Syria is exactly the reason for the OPCW award,
    And there was Putin doing more than anyone to work for Peace in the M.E.

    Gotta highlight The western Elite’s current Manoeuvres
    in the Grand Game Eh… Arseholes

    Bunch of bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C.

    it’s further proof that We can never expect to see see oBomber’s Prize being revoked,Or of him and the rest, Cameron, Bliar, Bush, Clinton Ect, ect, being tried for war crimes,


  15. This just in:- Malala’s lunch was chicken nuggets and french fries, she said that one day she hopes all Pakistani girls we be able to eat such Western delicacies without being shot in the head by nasty intolerant religous men – like what she was, or wasn’t. She finished her meal with a strawberry milk-shake and offered a moving rendition of the often repeated chant “U S A” to assembled journalists from the world’s media, many of whom were moved to tears by her plucky script, er… spirit.

  16. Excellent news; congratulations to Edward Snowden and the Sam Adams Award judges.

    The extent to which Snowden’s actions (and by extension those of Glenn Greenwald at the Graun) are a libertarian/authoritarian litmus test of our current political elite can be shown in this report, where Vince Cable defends whistleblowing while Cleggover & Jack Straw back the securocrat drum-


  17. OPCW, been around since 97.
    There’s been nothing said as far as I know about the depleted uranium and white phosphorous used in Iraq, and especially Fallujah, Afghanistan.
    The ongoing war and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians received no help or backing, despite Israel using plenty of chemical weapons and sprays against the civilian imprisoned population of Gaza.Not a peep from them during cast lead despite the chemical weapons and their burns being televised.
    Then there was the DU tipped bombs and canon shells used during the Libyan war by our and French forces.
    Many of the chem weapons which the Syrian rebels are supposed to have, originated in Libya.
    Then there were the incidents before the big one that rocked the MSM.
    They’ve not accomplished anything yet !!
    This is like Obama’s Nobel Peace prize. It’s for the things they might do, sometime, somewhere in the Summertime.
    Nobel Industries never stopped making dynamite or weapons.The peace prize always was a dying mans conscience for being responsible for millions of deaths.And it would seem to have just as much to with peace now as it did then.

  18. Spot on DoNNyDarkO as Brian says, bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C.

  19. Further to this award, the OPCW’s success it is most likely down to the excellent diplomacy of one Brazilian diplomat Jose Mauricio Bustani.


    It was down to his efforts that by 2002 most countries bar six had signed up to the chemical weapons convention. The six countries were Israel, Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan, Myanmar, can’t remember the last one.

    Myanmar and Israel have signed but failed to ratify the treaty which means that incidents such as Gaza will not count. Their bloody red hands are excempt by ignorance.

    In my view the OPCW peace prize will be dwn to his efforts, John Bolton tear your last few hairs out!

    Three cheers to Jose Bustani and all that worked in his team. He was axed by arm twisting, Bush could not stomach that he was just about to sign up Saddam to the treaty, it would have taken his WMD arguments right off the table.

    Jose Bustani should be director general of the UN imho, he would have no crux with blackmailers and arm twisters.


  20. Apparently Frank Gardner is still imbued in ‘cold war syndrome’ as this fake BBC security correspondent juxtapositions written security slanted bollocks knowing full well the intelligence oversight sucks.

    However high-minded the motives of Mr Snowden in blowing the whistle on what he sees as excessive surveillance by a sinister Orwellian state, the fact is he has fled to Moscow with over 58,000 secret British and US intelligence files, all of which will be of great interest to Russia’s FSB, the successor to the KGB.

  21. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    11 Oct, 2013 - 5:04 pm

    The momentum from Snowden’s courageous acts is slowing, and the DC fight keeps pushing that ethnocentric preoccupation in the US. I’m glad his recognition has broken the surface, but we need more disclosures to keep that ball in play.

    Congrats Edward.

  22. Y’all will be encouraged by the Daily Mail’s readers’ comments on the bizarre, sudden campaign by the DM proclaiming Snowden, Greenwald, The Guardian and the BBC all traitors worthy of a mass public shooting.

    A majority of their readers oppose the DM’s position and favour Snowden and his allies for revealing unlawful over- surveillance by The State.

    The OPCW Nobel Peace Prize is being spun as vindication of Obama’s and Kerry’s clever, credible threat of war that drove Assad to agree to destroy Syria’s chemical weapons. No mention that the UK Parliament voted against war and the US Congress was about to do so. Heroic, peace-loving Obama is now settled history.

  23. Craig:

    Doesn’t you favorite man turn up in the strangest of places? You’d think he’d learn to be quiet.


  24. As I said before Aa is on AQ tonight. Should be good for a laugh. Betcha that he will have something to say on the need for security etc. Davey will mutter platitudes about energy prices.

    8pm Radio 4 11/10/2013
    Duration: 48 minutes
    Friday 11 October 2013
    Jonathan Dimbleby presents political debate and discussion from Northampton with the Times writer David Aaronovitch, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Ed Davey MP, Linda Whetstone from the Network for a Free Society and Shadow Chief Secretary for the Treasury Chris Lesley MP.

    PS BBC 6pm ‘News’ showed a segment of film about the alleged Syrian government use of CW in ref to the Nobel peace prize winner OPCW.

    The BBC correspondent in Washington adds:
    Paul Adams BBC World Affairs Correspondent

    The OPCW has been working to rid the world of chemical weapons for the past 16 years. For the most part, this task has been laborious and unheralded.

    A staff of about 500, working from its headquarters at The Hague, is charged with making sure that the 189 signatories to the Chemical Weapons Convention are abiding by its terms.

    But it is only in recent weeks, following the use of chemical weapons in Syria, that the OPCW has become a household name.

    It is facing its biggest challenge ever – to verify and destroy Syria’s entire chemical weapons programme by the middle of next year. The Nobel committee clearly feels it needs all the support it can get.

    It is not uncommon for organisations to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. It has happened 24 times since 1901. Non-proliferation has been an occasional theme, with campaigners for nuclear disarmament and against land mines among those recognised.

    I repeat that Israel and Myanmar are non signatories.



    Julian Assange on Snowden, US NSA surveillance, Google and the neo-Imperialism of the US Empire (No, Really!) – Long –

    “Assange: ‘Snowden safe but journalists dealing with him at risk'”, by Eva Golinger, October 11th, 2013 – RT –



    Take a holiday in Europe, Motherf@#$@#$. Take a holiday in F^%$@#@$ Europe, I double dare you. (*)

    US Empire Nazis – the Boy Emperor, Cheney, Rumsfeld, ‘Our Tony’ Bliar, Brown, Cameron, Clegg — Terrified of their date with destiny — A long drop on a short rope. – Nuremberg Mk II. –

    Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of their lives.


    Mk I for comparison – Nuremberg Executions of N_zi Leaders for ‘Crimes Against Humanity’ and ‘Crimes Against the Laws of War.’ – Original –


    More – On CG Jung and problem of the mass psychosis of the US Empire Nazis- see comment 2 – US EMPIRE NAZI ‘MASS PSYCHOSIS’ – to ‘Can Iran Trust the United States’, by Sheldon Richman, October 2nd, 2013 – ICH –



    (*) Is it true that even those vehemently anti the US-Empire-Neo-Con-Nazis are possessed by the same murderous demons, as CG Jung said of the Germans after World War 2? (ER, Apparently so. Ed.) – Pulp Fiction –



    The lives of Australian Wikileaks heroes – ready for anything! With the US Empire reptilian-brained Rarl Kove played by a crocodile.

    But it all ends well for the Aussie Battler. For the croc, not so much. He is, ER, stuffed. Literally. ; ) … And it couldn’t happen to a nicer US Empire Nazi, you may think.

    Go Julian ! –


    Rarl Kove stuffed ? (ER, ‘Natural justice’ – geddit? Ed.) –


  26. Eva Golinger speaks to Julian Assange. 11 October 2013


    Transcript http://rt.com/news/assange-interview-snowden-journalists-079/

    ‘Edward Snowden is safe in Russia, but the fates of journalists who helped him and published his leaks are now of more concern for WikiLeaks, Julian Assange said in an exclusive interview with RT Spanish ‘Behind the News’ host Eva Golinger.

    Assange also shared his views on the NSA scandal in Latin America and the future of freedom of information.

    He criticized the US and the White House for abusing its power more than any other administration in history, stressing that President Obama has prosecuted twice as many journalists under the espionage act as all previous US presidents combined since 1917.

    US can blackmail almost every influential person in Latin America’


  27. BrianFujisan

    11 Oct, 2013 - 7:44 pm

    Looks like some quarters are serious about impeaching obomb this, that, and everything inbetween

    Resolution Impeaching Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.

    Resolved, That Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

    Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, against Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.

    Article I

    In his conduct while President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has willfully corrupted and manipulated the executive branch to increase its power and destroy the balance of powers between the three branches of government that is established by the Constitution of the United States.

    The means used to implement this course of conduct or scheme included one or more of the following acts:

    (1) Shortly after being sworn in for his first term as President of the United States, Barack Hussein Obama began creating new departments and appointing Czars to oversee these departments. These Czars were never submitted to the United States Senate for approval as required by Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution. In addition, these Czars and the Departments have budgets that are not subject to being controlled by Congress as provided for by Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. He also made recess appointments when the Senate was not in recess……

    More from –


  28. Bunch of bought over Spineless Shits in the Nobel C

    They didn’t get where they are today without brown nosing and sucking up to the power Brain me lad!

    All these committees are stuffed to rafters with the conformists and harrumphers, for fuck sake, Obama getting the peace fucking prize, is this sort of an irony prize?


    journalists from the world’s media, many of whom were moved to tears by her plucky script

    Now that is taking the piss in the best possible taste.

  29. I sincerely appreciate both Snowden and Manning’s willingness to inform us. Nevertheless, wtf are these awards going to do to get those mofus who f us over every ff-ing time behind bars?

    @ Rouge [continuing from previous threads]

    As far as I can see it, both US/UK governments are shitting their pants for when the day comes that the banksters can’t be bailed out and Joe&Jane six-pack get their hands on crowbars to got out there and find food to feed their toddlers. When Aaron knew he was going to kick the bucket, he came clean in a laudable way. He gave us unprecedented insight into a corner of a very shadowy world. One we know exists, but one that dies instantly when the light of truth hits it. DHS has purchased enough bullets to fight an Iraqi style war for up to 20 years and its new armored vehicles and shiny tanks spell only one thing: anticipated chaos. Again, I’m not all that familiar with the situation in the UK, but HUMINT points in a similar direction. Do you have more info/insight/ideas to share about this topic?

  30. @ Me In Us,

    side note:

    Q: Michael Moore has a picture:

    R: F! Now I need 3 screens.

  31. Completely agree. Nothing has more opened my eyes to the corruption of much of our ‘mainstream media’ than their toadying to MI5 and the CIA over Snowden. Just read Stephen Glover in today Mail and weep – he even has the nerve to call himself a journalist. The security services and the military are constantly looking at new ways of empire-building, so the ‘threat’ will never go away.

  32. Warning. Emetic.

    Hillary Clinton honoured for diplomacy by Duke of York

    Former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been presented with this year’s Chatham House Prize in recognition of her contribution to international diplomacy.

    The central London institute also commended Mrs Clinton for her work towards gender equality and opportunities for women and girls.

    Hillary Clinton received the crystal award and a scroll signed by The Queen from Prince Andrew.

    The annual prize is awarded at Banqueting House in Whitehall to the statesperson deemed to have made the greatest contribution to improving international relations in the previous year.

    Earlier husband Bill Clinton tweeted a photo of the power couple enjoying a “beautiful morning walk” in Hyde Park. Credit: Twitter/@billclinton



    ‘Air Miles’ Andy has just returned from jetting round the world, partly at our expense, when visiting Indonesia and Vietnam. He probably thinks he’s B.Liar! Note that he has joined RUSI, the warmongers’ think tank. who funded the rest of the 21,000 mile journey.

    Globetrotting Prince Andrew under fire over New York stopover during ‘official’ world tour to have dinner with Eugenie as she starts new job
    Prince met with youngest daughter during final leg of ‘official’ world tour
    Think tank Royal United Services Institute subsidised Prince’s expenses
    Palace insists the rest of New York stay was paid by the Prince himself
    The body has appointed Prince Andrew to its board of advisors
    He was accompanied on his trip by his publicly funded security team


  33. @ me in us 11 Oct, 2013 – 10:18 pm

    The end is near. I find myself on the same side as Michael Moore re Snowden, so he’s not all bad. But there’s a surplus of him; the percentage of not-all-bad is very small. The vile fatist jokes won’t stop. Sorry. Sorta.

  34. I sense a change in America. Obama blinked over Syria, no question. Obamacare is in trouble and the shutdown means FEMA are poised. Maybe now that it’s fracking its way out of the need for foreign oil, America is turning inwards.

    Hopefully that isn’t bad news for ordinary Americans. All that Homeland Security has to find some kind of threat, doesn’t it?

  35. Maybe now that it’s fracking its way out of the need for foreign oil, America is turning inwards.

    Mike, ever thought why Alaskan oil fields are not getting exploited? The drilling goes on but the wells are capped and out goes the rig to drill the next well.

    Libya was producing oil, when Iraq was attacked, as the Iraqi oil production plummeted, then just as Iraqi oil production was picking up, the Libyan oil goes off line. Ever thought why the arc of instability covers the current oil production fields, and on goes the charade of the “oil is finished any minute now”?

    The kabuki is about propping up the fiat currency which is getting churned out by the tonne on the high speed presses, and the hike in oil prices means the world is soaking up the extra dollars shoved into the world, so that the empires sponsors and underwriters are getting richer as they tax the rest of the world.

    There is no shortage of oil, but there is a glut of dollars that is driving the wars. As all good things come to an end, the free ride of US is nearing its ignominious end. The cracks have been appearing for far too long. Do you recollect the years of turmoil in the ex soviet block orbit countries before the USSR fell apart?

    No one suspected (so they said) that USSR will implode, but it did, as no one suspects that US will implode, but it will do so too. Hang on to your hat, it is coming and when it hits, you will know it.

    But the rich can take fucking comfort, that they will be eaten by the poor, after all the well looked after soft pink flesh will be much more desirable to the taste than the crap fed and over worked slaves and zombies roaming the streets. The rich fucking deserve it, for long they have been working to this end, just like the guy in Germany, who wanted to be eaten.

    It is an interesting situation; on one hand there is a distrust of the corporate media, on the other the memes propagated by the said untrustworthy culprits with a fire hose, cloud the thinking of those wishing to break free from the crap on tap available 24/7/52.

  36. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 12:27 am

    Sorry to burst your bubble, Mike, but the shutdown has overshadowed every other piece of news, and the narcissism and ethnocentrism is unabated. The republicans are poised to cave on their demands, and even a weak-kneed Obama seems to tower over their carcasses.

    As for FEMA, the US sees themselves as the marketing test for Agenda 21, and they want everyone to know it’s not a genuine threat. Of course that excludes any events not under their control, like terrorism or comets.


    Six new videos of Edward ‪#Snowden‬ in Moscow; with Sarah Harrison – Wikileaks Twitter –


    Wikileaks Twitter –


  38. @ Nevermind

    Angola [Syria too, but, hey, that’s been dealt with as we speak] LINK

    @ NR,

    MM’s docus are/were Miramax/Weistein Bro productions [at least most].

    @ Ben,

    Been wondering about FEMA/DHS for a while and my geustimation is that all that gear is purchased for when the shit hits the fan. I found an article by Ellen Brown on Gordon Brown very interesting. Btw, how about a permanent shutdown of the NSA/DHS and all other agencies sucking the living daylight out of the gov’s perpetually refilling trough?

  39. Mike,

    The fracking story isn’t what it is made out to be – this isn’t the time or the place for the full gory details. But yes it is something but don’t believe the over-hype. The US is still a massive net importer of oil and that isn’t going to change (short of collapse). Heck the USA is still a net importer of natural gas despite many years of fracking!

  40. kedem forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 6:28 am

    Anybody on for a side bet on the 2015 election. All Labour and Milliband have to do is distribute enough videos of his and Rifkinds Commons contrasting performances during Syria war debate – we had a genuine Milliband pleading for more information about the Ghouta gassing before coming to any decision, as opposed to the Conservatives zio shill Rifkind thundering for war on Camerons behalf, based on YouTube videos and 8200 intercepts. Thanks to CM and others raising doubts based on Trodos,etc the truth finally emerges, the gassing of the 426 (Alawite) children was a contrived Bandar operation and Netanhayu’s “live” intercepts and missile information were fake.

    Losing the upcoming 2015 election would be a fair price for Cameron to pay for this attempted MONSTROUS deceit, and we will be saved the spectre of the Gove,Hague and Fox FOIs shilling away, in dread of genuine 8200 held “intercepts” of their twin hotel room Hershey Highway cameos!!

  41. Reference fracking.

    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spill in North Dakota
    Public in Dark for Days Due to Government Shutdown

    by Steve Horn / October 11th, 2013

    ‘Over 20,600 barrels of oil fracked from the Bakken Shale has spilled from a Tesoro Logistics pipeline in Tioga, North Dakota in one of the biggest onshore oil spills in recent U.S. history.

    Though the spill occurred on September 29, the U.S. National Response Center – tasked with responding to chemical and oil spills — did not make the report available until October 8 due to the ongoing government shutdown.

    “The center generally makes such reports available on its website within 24 hours of their filing, but services were interrupted last week because of the U.S. government shutdown,” explained Reuters.’


  42. Kedem Forever

    A Gove adviser – Who and what the Cons really, really are.

    Genetics outweighs teaching, Gove adviser tells his boss
    Dominic Cummings’ 250-page paper attacks fear of elitism and waste of billions of pounds, and calls for slimmed-down ministry

    Coulson obviously thought that Cummings was toxic but Poison Gove did not see it and saw Cummings as fitting for his elitist agenda.

    ‘One of the best-known and most controversial of many special advisers working in government, Cummings is due to leave Gove at the end of the year. He worked in the department for two years, having previously advised Gove before the election, although his appointment within the department was initially blocked by David Cameron’s then director of communications, Andy Coulson, who regarded Cummings as untrustworthy.’


    I expect you read that the head of one of Gove’s ‘free’ schools who had no teaching experience has just left her post after six months.


  43. Anti-Taliban propaganda offensive contd.

    Was this visit was prearranged on the assumption that she would win the Nobel prize?

    Malala meets the Obombers. Ironic when you think he has dispatched many of her fellow citizens, man, woman and child, by drone.

    Malala Yousafzai meets Obamas at White House

    PS Taliban = Mujahideen = funded and trained by USUKIsNATO to fight the Russians!

  44. And the Nobel prize for agriculture goes to ” MONSANTO ”

  45. Manchurian Malala – “Malala is the bravest, sweetest girl I have ever met in my entire life”. They’re not doing all this for nothing, she’s going to be the next Bhutto.


  46. O/T

    “Arafat poisoning claim backed by journal”

    Lancet publishes peer review supporting findings Palestinian leader may have been poisoned by polonium


  47. “Anti- Taliban propaganda offensive”???

    Ah, yes, those poor Talibs are so misunderstood by the Evil West. All they want is a fair and progressive society, with women’s rights and freedom of expression for all. Yes, Mary, vile propaganda it is, having one’s face shot for attending school. Poor, poor Taliban.


  48. More Mary c&p drivel:

    “Reference fracking.
    Over 865,200 Gallons of Fracked Oil Spill in North Dakota
    Public in Dark for Days Due to Government Shutdown”

    865, 200 gallons? The mind boggles at such a figure, as it is intended to.

    Until one realises that an Olympic-sized swimming pool contains 660, 000 gallons.

    So not a very significant spill as it turns out.

  49. Only the other day we had Mary whinging about high energy prices (a large part due to environmental taxes), now we have Mary whinging about fracking in the US, which has reduced energy prices there considerably. No pleasing some!

  50. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 11:51 am

    Be careful anon of challenging Mary’s pronouncements – exercising the freedom to disagree is just proof of your bourgeois deviance. The next thing will be that they accuse you of being the school bully – and her none too clever sidekicks will turn up with their side line in none too original insults. What you will never get is a thing like a serious counter argument or anything amounting to an intellectual challenge. The leader of the gang has already made the position clear.

  51. Ignore the tag team simpletons.

  52. Incidents of destitute people setting themselves alight in Manchester and Birmingham, and in the US and France.

    The British Red Cross are stepping in to the food aid programmes in this country.

    Exclusive: Red Cross launches emergency food aid plan for UK’s hungry
    Welfare cuts and the economic downturn send soaring numbers of people to soup kitchens and food banks across Europe

    Where next Agent Cameron and our own male version of Cruella de Vil, IDS?


    Royal news catchup.

    Pipps will be OK though in these times of hardship. She can eat pheasant!

    Her little nephew George will be spending Christmas with both sets of grandparents at Sandringham. Granny Queen has just had a £6.9m pay rise so she will be able to get some nice treats and goodies for the family party. What a jolly time awaits them!



  53. “Ignore the tag team simpletons.”

    Did you bother to read Resident Dissident’s post before performing that spectacular own goal, Jives?

  54. Mary drivels on, this time from the Mail’s celeb trash column:

    “Royal news catchup. Pipps will be OK though in these times of hardship. She can eat pheasant.”

    Though not a common sight in the leafy lanes of suburban Surrey, where most birds tend to get run over by Waitrose home delivery vans, pheasants are two a penny during the shooting season, as any fule no. So our resident Glenda Slagg can get on with writing tomorrow’s headline: “Hurrah for Pipps for dining on cheap poultry!”

  55. I was genuinely shocked to read Mary’s post about destitute people setting themselves alight in Manchester and Birmingham.

    So I clicked on the link.

    And it turns out that a man on benefits set fire to the telephones in his job centre.

  56. Saudi-Israelia seek to destroy Syria: Expert

    “They (Israelis and the Saudis) have been virtually merging into one country of Saudi-Israelia and the hard-line faction of neo-conservatives here in the US that want to destroy Syria for Israel, turn it into three small balkanized little states and go through Syria in an attack on Iran,” Kevin Barrett said.

  57. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 12:46 pm

    “So our resident Glenda Slagg” – more of a Davina Spart I think – reporting from deep undercover with the huddled masses of Surrey working to protect the local wildlife from being converted into pate for delivery to the local fascisti in the vans of the faux workers co-operative.

    Tut tut – such frivolity when people are setting fire to telephones.

  58. I am sort of chuckling (no offence) at the idea of there being a ‘hard-line’ faction of neo-conservatives. Given the luantic nonsense your average neo-conservative spouts daily, I am truly disturbed at the idea that there is a fringe-group that there is a faction that is even worse.

    But there is though, isn’t there? These neo-conservatives truly are fucking insane. I’m quite sure they talk idly about rolling out the ‘tactical’ nukes, and accepting a 10 year war with Putin as part of the price. Loons, all of them. Loons with power, and influence at that. Shudder.

  59. Anon, 12:21 pm: there were two links on the thread that Mary linked to. This is the one you didn’t read, or didn’t mention:


  60. Yes, Clark, I hadn’t seen that. Aside from the fact that the story is over a year old (Mary wishes to create the impression that people are increasingly setting themselves on fire in response to government ‘austerity’), I can’t find any other cases of self-immolation other than the case in Manchester, which Mary erroneously categorised under “incidents of destitute people setting themselves alight”. As you are aware, but choose not to comment on, the man set fire to the telephones.

    So we have one case from over a year ago in which there were obvious mental issues being used to create an impression of destitute people seeing no option but to set fire to themselves.

    I should add that having used my local job centre at the age of 18 I can confirm that it was the experience of seeing drug and alcohol-addicted serial wasters with a sense of entitlement abusing staff that made me get out and find a job, for which I am ever thankful. I would estimate that fewer than 5% were actually looking for work.

  61. Anon, my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.

  62. Anon 12 Oct, 2013 – 11:21 am

    Ah, poisoning the well. The tried and trusted tactic of the disinfo agent – shame it never works. At least it was amusing – but I’m still not sure if it’s supposed to be satrirical knowing how crap the quality of their work is getting since they had to farm out their nonsense overseas for fear of being exposed – like they already have been numerous times when their amatuer dramatics go tits-up, e.g. crises actors appearing on multiple major ‘news’ stories being exposed, digital fingerprints showing pre-prepared web pages etc. Yes, the staged media-event seems to be falling apart; and who can forget the bizarre ‘police’ behaviour during the arrest of the Woolwich suspects? Especially considering the hundreds of millions spent on preparing our emergency services to counter the ‘terrorist threat’ and all they could manage was Laurel and Hardy, and they didn’t even give them the right costume.

  63. Hi Clark, how is it going?

    Still up in the lonely wilds of Scotland?

    From the link:

    “He would have to have been very desperate to have done something like that.

    “It’s shocking that somebody could have been driven to those depths.”

    It is a disgrace that a private company as in Jobcentre Plus is being inferred to as DWP, a governmental agency. Unaccountable profit motivated reverse Robin Hood operatives plying their trade in suppression, discounting and disenfranchisement of the jobless, without any hindrance. In fact these privateers are cheered on and encouraged to do so. Interesting that the said operatives will not give more than their first name, and or will not provide any references (number, etc) for any of the referral, or transactions. This is UK in the twenty first century.

  64. Clark: “Anon, my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.”

    This is true. Touring the country, attending protests and carrying out weeks of plumbing work for no charge are not conducive to securing an income.

  65. Too ridiculous for words – the World Bank FFS. Next she’ll be addressing the CIA and NSA before receiving her Purple Heart.


  66. Kedem Forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:05 pm

    Very puzzling, by now everyone is aware of the standard zio tactic of assigning paid shills to influential blogs, except our Jon/Mod. The standard hasbara handbook approach, no insights, just denigration and disruption applied to JG,Mary,etc. Ok we had habba once tell us of Michael Winners last dinner, but that was about all!

    426 Alawite children were just gassed to start a war for Israel in Syria, and the monster satanyahu who gave false “intercept” testimony (and Hollande and Fabius and Hague and Rifkind) has gone scot free, and then we have his ilk here ……in full DIY hasbara mode.

  67. Anon, I’m sure you’re right. What a worthless shit I must be. Oh how I wish I was as worthy as yourself.

  68. Clark Said;

    my own experience is that finding work is easy, but finding income is far more difficult.

    You have hit the nail on the head. In the current climate, no one has any money to pay, but plenty of work to be done. This is the Alan Bastard’s wet dream; “bringing back the slavery”.

    It solves the problem of housing shortage, traffic congestion, and inflation, as well as helping to boost productivity, and profitability!

    The current sick situation of blaming the jobless for not finding a job is the lowest trick that has been played so far, given the depression that is not a depression but an economic “downturn”!

  69. Come on now, Clark. Nobody said you were a worthless shit. What you need is some positive thinking and a little more concentration on the task in hand. Self-pity will get you nowhere.

  70. Security bedwetters united

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:31 pm

    Oh no, 58,000 secret British and US intelligence files! There go Alexander’s blackmail tapes of phone sex, infidelity, criminal conspiracy, and corruption by Diane Feinstein, Barack Obama, Antonin Scalia, the judges of the FISA court, and anyone else with security-sector oversight responsibility. Disclosure will critically compromise NSA’s mission. Scalia’s O-face is classified for a reason.

  71. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:32 pm


    Ah the Hitler avatar , the tried and tested tactic of a d***head with nothing of any consequence to say…………..

  72. Kedem Forever

    12 Oct, 2013 - 2:49 pm

    The Bush tax cuts, continued under Obomba so far amount to $6 TRILLION (out of the 17 TRILLION current debt). The supply side theorists were wont to claim all that capital in the hands of the private sector would lead to greater wealth,job,gnp,etc creation. GHW Bush had referred to this “Reagan/Stockman” economics as “voodoo economics”, and so far we have seen only the 2008 crash and stagnant employment levels in the US economy. With a Republican controlled Congress, there will be no sunset on the Bush tax cuts and no reduction in $800 Billion US Defence Budget (greater than that of the ENTIRE rest of the world combined). That has left Obamacare and Food Stamps, among other items, as targets for reducing the US Budget deficit. On a positive note, with such heavy government indebtedness, we can expect the interest rate to stay at levels affordable by the US Government ie 1-2%, ie affordable long term mortgages then.

  73. More info for Anon on the shooting party, which took place in Scotland, not England. As he can see they all do really useful jobs like nursing, social work and caring.

    Revealed: The kick-boxer, popstar James Blunt’s ex and a Doctor Who girl… meet Pippa’s pheasant shooting posse

    If he prefers this version, he can read about the cost of her trendy Dubarry boots. A snip @ £350. No cardboard to cover the holes in the soles for her.

    Annie Brown: Pippa and her glory-hunting posh pals are bunch of twisted toffs
    ANNIE says the picture of Pippa Middleton and her upper-crust killing crew in Scotland is a sickening scene.

    What wasters.

  74. To give Malala her due she is reported to have said this about drone warfare to Obomber although it probably fell on deaf ears.

    ‘“I thanked president Obama for the United States’ work in supporting education in Pakistan and Afghanistan and for Syrian refugees.

    “I also expressed my concerns that drone attacks are fuelling terrorism. Innocent victims are killed in these acts, and they lead to resentment among the Pakistani people. If we refocus efforts on education it will make a big impact.“

    She called for greater co-operation between the governments of the United States and Pakistan.’


  75. Further – Self immolation. Distressing.

    The men who set themselves on fire
    Due to joblessness and a bleak economy, self-immolations in industrialised societies are rising rapidly.
    07 Oct 2013

  76. Daniel Rich
    11 Oct, 2013 – 10:13 pm

    I think Aaron Russo said pretty well everything about what’s going on and where it’s going. On-going wars, fear of terrorism, heightened security, and financial crises are the tools to bring it about.

    911 is a verboten subject, but I see it as the key (though not the beginning) – all else has followed from that: the war on terror (and acceptance of torture), massive funding for arms, the ascendence of the security and intelligence services with their ramping up of fear as a tool of control and use of secrecy to hide the truth.

    You ask about the situation in the UK. It’s about the same as most everywhere else: governments out of line soon fall into line if their members want to be in the game and share the spoils.

  77. Bolivia’s first indigenous president Juan Evo Morales should be recognized for being humiliated at hands of US imperialism for supporting Snowden.


  78. Re Wikileaks & Snowden

    From yesterday’s press release …

    Tonight WikiLeaks and Sixteen Films release MEDIASTAN—a WikiLeaks road movie.

    The release of MEDIASTAN is timed to challenge the UK opening today of THE FIFTH ESTATE – the multi-million dollar Hollywood anti-WikiLeaks movie produced by Dreamworks in collaboration with Disney. UK audiences will be able to watch MEDIASTAN online for free during The Fifth Estate’s opening weekend.


    or download from http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/9039415/Mediastan

  79. As most of us continue to suffer the cuts, we are promised yet more bread and circuses, this time next year from Glasgow. Do our rulers think that there will be a feel-good effect for the establishment line prior to the referendum? Or is the choice of location of the Games and the timing pure coincidence?

    ‘Relaying the Commonwealth baton – Queen and media on-message

    Message in a baton: Commonwealth is royal wealth – photo

    With much media fanfare, the Commonwealth Games baton has now been sent on its royal-approved way from Buckingham Palace to Glasgow and onwards around the globe. As the BBC dutifully reported:

    “The baton contains the Queen’s hand-written message to the Commonwealth and will visit all 70 competing nations and territories over the next 288 days. It will travel to Scotland on Thursday before heading to India for its first international stopover on 11 October. The baton’s journey will end at the opening ceremony on 23 July 2014, when the Queen will read the message inside.”‘


    Commonwealth Games 23 July – 3rd August 2014
    Referendum for Scottish Independence Thursday 18 September 2014

  80. News from the counting house.

    Hedge fund linked to George Osborne’s best man to make millions from privatisation of Royal Mail after ‘buying £50m stake’
    Peter Davies met the Chancellor at Oxford University
    Was Osborne’s best man when he married Frances Howell in 1998
    Davies is a member of management committee for Lansdowne Partners
    Hedge-fund firm has seen value of investment rise by £18million already
    City fund made reported £100million from financial crash


    ‘Peter joined Lansdowne in June 2001, is a member of the Management Committee and is jointly responsible for the Developed Markets Strategy, previously known as the UK Strategy. Prior to joining Lansdowne, Peter was a Director at Merrill Lynch Investment Managers (MLIM, previously Mercury Asset Management). Peter joined MLIM in 1993.

    Peter is a member of the investment committee of the Wellcome Trust, an investment committee member at Magdalen College Oxford and a member of the advisory committee of Manocap (a venture capital fund investing in some of the most distressed areas of the world, initially focused in Sierra Leone). Peter has a first class honours degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University.’

    Paul Ruddock (ex Schroders and Goldman Sachs) who co founded Lansdowne has now retired. ‘According to reports, Sir Paul’s wealth is estimated to be about £270m, He is believed to have donated £570,000 to the Conservative Party between 2003 and 2011.’ He received a knighthood in 2012.


    As you can see they are ‘all in it together’.

  81. “She called for greater co-operation between the governments of the United States and Pakistan.”

    I call for greater cooperation between the people of Pakistan and the people of the failed-state of Pakistan.

    I challenge Malala to return to Pakistan and make a difference there. I challenge Malala to make a difference within Pakistan from anywhere rather than standing on platforms going lalalala. Still, she is a child and i wonder what kind of adult she will grow up to be with all the attention. A different kind of human being with special awareness or just another puppet wanting to play with the super-structures.

  82. Cable gets something right.

    Clegg and Cable disagree on Guardian Snowden leaks

    Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg and his cabinet colleague Vince Cable appear at odds about the Guardian’s disclosure of secret surveillance.

    Mr Cable said the newspaper performed a “very considerable public service” by publishing details of documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

    But Mr Clegg reaffirmed his belief it was “not good at all” and said the information could “help terrorists”.


  83. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:17 pm


    Glasgow’s bid for the 2014 Commonwealth Games was selected in 2007 – so much for that conspiracy theory. I look forward to the apology for the misinformation – I trust we won’t have to wait seven years.

  84. @ Rouge,

    It is so darn easy to speculate and even easier to guess one way or another, but it looks to me that what was once considered to be that ‘middle class’ chunk of society [in the past], has been slam-dunked into the financial blenders of $$-churning banksters and thus rendered obsolete, sidelined and completely obliterated. With no option but to hang on to the rafters of too big to jail fraudsters and one paycheck away from total poverty, how much do they care about NSA spying or Fukushima’s meltdown?.

    To find solutions one has to try to understand [conceptualize if you will] the entire complexity of an ever evolving, societal disharmony that has its roots in something I, myself, find very difficult to dissect.

    Let us have a look at this board for example and assume it is some sort of cross section of a ‘society’ as a whole.

    Who are the ones that are reaching out across dividing lines [cultural, religion, wealth, education, etc.] in an attempt to bridge gaps? Who are out t/here to find common ground in an attempt to ensure that true equality for all [men, women and children] will fly its banner over the entirety of humanity?

    ‘We’ had an opportunity to become a great nation and we ff-ed it up big time, by guiding that herd of golden calves straight into the ff-ing Fed’s vaults and run around with plastic $$ instead. What true idiots ‘we’’ve become…

    Free speech zones?

    My ff-ing ass.

  85. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:31 pm

    For once I do agree with Mary about the Roya Mail privatisation – if local councillors were to sell off assets at a discount of 25% to their value they be discharged and disqualified from office. The minister responsible in this case was Vince Cable. Given that the City usually sees anything above a 10% premium on issue to be seen as a sign of underpricing (some premium is necessary to avoid prohibitive underwriting costs – and that is understood) I really do think Mararet Hodge should be calling in Cable and the investment bank advising on the issue to understand why they got things so wrong. In the meantimne the poor old customer and taxpayer will be picking up the tap for the recently increased postage costs and the taking over of the pension liablity that made the Royal Mail such an attractive proposition. This is almost as much a scandal as the privatisation of the railway carriage leasing companies which were sold off to their managers and then sold onto the banks for a 100% return within months courtesy of the last Tory Government.

  86. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:38 pm

    Daniel Rich

    Given that I am probably classified as a Ziotroll in your eyes – perhaps you might wish to point out where I or any of the otehr Ziotrolls here have ever tried to defend the Israeli governments in Cast Lead – please come back when you have found something.

    You are making the mistake in assuming that just because we object to many of your perverse views that we are unable to be critical and condemn the Israeli Govt when it commits attrocities and uses unreasonable force.

  87. RD, i’m glad you commented on the royal heist. Can you save me the research and tell me if you are aware of the relative accessibility to those shares by the ‘average’ Joe Blog and minimum application/allotment thresholds, etc? Will research it tomorrow if you don’t have a broad answer handy. Thanks.

  88. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 9:53 pm


    I think 8% of the shares were issued to staff, 38% are still hled by the Govt (which I suspect will be sold in small tranches to institutional shareholders over the coming years so as not to rock the share price and of the remainder they are split 36% to institutional investors and 18% to private investors (all of whom have been limited to £750 of shares per head).

    This issue and the recent sale of a tranche of Lloyds demonstrate that this Tory govt (despite the LibDems) has dropped the property owning democracy of the Thatcher days and is more than comfortable with business being owned and controlled by a small elite of hedge funds, private equity and investment managers – perhaps one of the differences in outlook between Eton and Kesteven Grammar.

  89. Thank you both, Habby and Resident Dissident and thank you RD for your latter observation. And Habby understand your AC/DC sentiment — good to have your humour on board, which i believe is an important component of live, including when lived seriously.

  90. live=life

  91. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:05 pm


    Elie Wiesel’s statements about Israel’s 2008-09 attack on Gaza don’t add up.

    On September 29, Wiesel appeared alongside Sheldon Adelson, Rwandan President Paul Kagame and Shmuley Boteach to talk genocide and about how the “strong” can protect the “weak” in the context of the chemical weapons attack in Syria in August. “Israel is part of our lives. It is truly part of mine,” Wiesel said on stage.

    At the conclusion of the bizarre event, Max Blumenthal and I asked the world’s most famous Holocaust survivor an obvious, though unasked, question: who would protect the people of Gaza from Israel?

    His first answer (minute 6:20 in the video above) was that “all human beings should be protected everywhere.” When I pressed him about the 300 children killed in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead and whether he supported the assault, his response was: “I don’t know anything about it.” Blumenthal and I each tried one more time, and Wiesel again said he didn’t know anything about Cast Lead.



  92. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:06 pm


    Welcome back by the way.

    I think my reading of Cable is that although intellectually he is a liberal and a Keynesian – he is just not a strong man or a shrewd operator so he is consistently outmanoevred. Perhaps some of this can be attributed to having worked with a major oil company for many years where selling your sould to the devil is pretty much par for the course – those who have worked within banks and oil companies will actually know that they are full of such people (which is no surprise since they aim to recuit the most intelligent graduates), the more consistent who refuse to compromise their principles just don’t fit in as well and don’t progress.

    Politically, I think Cable’s role is now pretty much limited to be a human shield for Clegg from about 75% of that party’s members.

  93. RD: yep.

  94. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:14 pm

    Mein Name ist Hase, ich weiß von nicht. Ich habe nur Befehle befolgt.

  95. resident dissident

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:24 pm


    I would agree that Wiesel is being weasel worded about Israel’s involvement in Cast Lead – but don’t we also see the mirror image in those who fail to condemn the the attrocities committed by Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, the Taliban etc.? I’m sorry I cannot put these things on a weighing scale – an attrocity is an attrocity whoever is the perpetrator – and without universal condemnation you just get into a rather pointless game of one side trying to claim justifcation for the unjustifiable.

  96. Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)

    12 Oct, 2013 - 10:25 pm

    The Elders of Zion have something on Obummer, Daniel…something big wrt Libya or somesuch.

    He really is being pinched by CIA/Mossad extortionists. He’s not a good contortionist. Certainly not as talented as Abe Lincoln.

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