I am not opposed to self determination for the people of Crimea; I am opposed to this referendum. Nobody can seriously argue there has been a chance for a campaign in which different viewpoints can be freely argued, with some equality of media access and freedom from fear and intimidation.
Hitler invaded Austria on 12 March 1938. The Anschluss was confirmed in a plebiscite on 10 April, just 28 days later, by a majority of 99.7%. Putin has done it in less than half of the time, and I have no doubt will produce a similar result in the vote. The point is not whether or not the vote reflects the will of the people – the point is whether the will of the people has been affected by military demonstration, fear, hysterically induced national psychosis and above all an absence of space for debate or alternative viewpoints.
There is no reasonable claim that Putin’s swift plebiscite is necessary because of an imminent threat of violence against Russians in Crimea. There is absolutely no reason that a referendum could not have been held at the end of this year, in a calm and peaceful atmosphere, after everybody had a chance to campaign and express their position. Putin has proved that force majeure is powerful in international politics, and there is every reason to believe that he could have finessed international acceptance of such a referendum in due course. Germany, in particular, is much more interested in its own energy supplies than in the rights of Ukraine. In twenty years in diplomacy, I never saw a single instance of Germany having any interest in rights other than its own national self-interest. It is very likely such a genuine referendum would have gone in Russia’s favour. But the disadvantages of open debate about the merits and demerits of Putin’s Russia, and his own self-image as the man of military prowess, led Putin to take the more violent course.
The vote yesterday in the Security Council should give every Putinista pause. Not even China voted with Russia. The Africans and South Americans voted solidly against. That is not because they are prisoners or puppets of the United States – they are not. Neither did they take the easy road of abstention. The truth is that what Putin is doing in Crimea is outrageous.
What happens now is going to be interesting. I greatly fear that Putin is looking to stir up as much disorder in Ukraine’s Eastern provinces as possible, perhaps with the aim of promoting civil war in which Russia can covertly intervene, rather than open invasion, but I do not put the latter past him. Against that, I am quite sure Russia did not expect the extreme diplomatic isolation, in fact humiliation, it suffered at the UN yesterday. I am hopeful Russia may step back from the brink.
The EU I expect to do nothing. Sanctions will target a few individuals who are not too close to Putin and don’t keep too many of their interests in the West. I don’t think Alisher Usmanov and Roman Abramovic need lose too much sleep, that Harrods need worry or that we will see any flats seized at One Hyde Park. (It is among my dearest wishes one day to see One Hyde Park given out for council housing.) Neither do I expect to see the United States do anything effective; its levers are limited. I doubt we have seen the last of Mr Putin’s adventurism.
Human society is not perfectible, which does not mean we should not try. I believe western democracy, particularly in its social democratic European manifestation from approximately 1945 to 2000, achieved a high level of happiness for its ordinary people and an encouraging level of equality. For approximately 20 years unfortunately we have witnessed a capitalism more raw and unabated than ever before, and massively growing levels of wealth inequality, a reduction in state provision for the needy, a distortion of state activity further to line the pockets of the rich, ever increasing corruption among the elite and growing levels of social immobility and exclusion, a narrowing of the options presented by major political parties until there is not a cigarette paper between them and their neo-conservative agendas, and a related narrowing by the mainstream media of the accepted bounds of public debate, with orchestrated ridicule of opinions outside those bounds. Democracy, as a system offering real choice to informed electors, has ceased to function in the West leading to enormous political alienation. On the international scene the West has retreated from the concept of international law and, heady with the temporary unipolar US military dominance, adopted aggressive might is right polices and a return of the practices of both formal and informal imperialism.
But every single one of those things is true of Putin’s Russia, and in fact it is much worse. Wealth inequality is even more extreme. Toleration of dissent and of different lifestyles even less evident, the space for debate even more constricted, the contempt for international law still more pronounced. Putin’s own desire for imperialist sphere of influence politics leads him into conflict with aggressive designs of the west, as for example in Syria and Iran. The consequence can be an accidental good, in that Putin has thwarted western military plans. But that is not in any sense from a desire for public good, and if Putin can himself get away with military force he does. His conflicts of interest with the west have deluded a surprising number of people here into believing that Putin in some ways represents an ideological alternative. He does not. He represents a capitalism still more raw, an oligarchy still more corrupt, a wealth gap still greater and growing still quicker, a debate still more circumscribed. It speaks to the extreme political failure of the western political system, and the degree of the alienation of which I spoke, that so many strive to see something beautiful in the ugly features of Putinism.
“Craig is simply putting out unbalanced guff now.”
Chris Jones,
I agree!, I think Craig is undergoing some mental issues at the moment.
So you speculate, someone, is that not something you should have learned about when you were young?
Would it matter much to you if your own personal medical history is, at convenient time to us, bless, off course, be subject of debate amongst an international crowd here?
or would they be rather interested in the issues of concern in this thread?
Hurbi
“You’re wrong about the oligarchs as well, of course. He prosecuted many of those who benefitted from the neocon rape of Russia under a Yeltin drunk on neocon largesse, whilst others of them fled to the West.
There’s a kinda pattern there.”
_____________________
There is indeed. The oligarchs who cosy up to rasPutin still have a free run in Russia and have been neither prosecuted nor forced to flee abroad. Fact.
**********************
Support your local ras-Putin approved oligarch!
Resident Dissident
“What f***ing planet do these people live on. They’ll be repeating the line that the Holodomor was down to crop failures and poor administration next.”
_____________________
They already have, through links provided. Cf posts and threads passim.
My colleague in the States, Gilbert Mercier, issues a warning about how the US can end up shooting itself in the foot by imposing sanctions following the resounding referendum vote. He also thinks it will be a test of the BRICS alliance as an economic power.
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2014/03/15/ukraines-crisis-economic-sanctions-could-trigger-a-global-depression/
“It is not a question of lauding Putin as a latter-day hero as you so persistently and pejoratively impute to your critics;”
__________________
Whether that’s the question or not, it is a fact that rasPutin is being so lauded by many on this blog.
John Goss; BRICS seems to lack mortar. China voting against, Putin dumping US obligations before the the coalition agrees it’s time.
BRICS has a long way to go.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/cyber-angriff-hacker-von-cyberberkut-legen-nato-website-lahm-a-958894.html
Brüssel – Mehrere Internetseiten der Nato sind in der Nacht zum Sonntag Ziel eines Hackerangriffs geworden. Zu der Attacke bekannte sich eine ukrainische Hackergruppe.
Die Gruppe mit dem Namen CyberBerkut teilte auf ihrer Webseite mit: “Wir erklären, dass wir heute um 18.00 Uhr eine Attacke gegen die Nato gestartet haben.” Die Nato habe auf ukrainischem Territorium nichts zu suchen, hieß es weiter. Die Erklärung wurde auf russisch abgegeben.
FREELY translated this means
More than one of NATO’s internet websites were target of an hacker attack on Sunday night. A Ukrainian hacker group owed up to the attack.
A group with the name Cyber Berklut announced on their website that ‘we hereby declare that we attacked NATO today at 18.00hrs.’ it further declared that NATO should keep itself out of Ukraine’s territory. The declaration was in Russian.
“So you speculate, someone”
nevermind 16 Mar, 2014 – 2:26 pm
I do not “speculate”!, you should read ALL the posts above before making your comment!, “is that not something you should have learned about when you were young? “.
Read comment
Someone 16 Mar, 2014 – 12:00 pm
Then
craig 16 Mar, 2014 – 12:25 pm
“Nobody is saying that Putin is an angel but all perspectives have been lost in these latest posts”
Well we haven’t been sufficiently acerbic when discussing the Sith Lord, so our condemnations of Putin fail to link him to the Chicago fire, or Tiananmen Square, making us complicit in his Crimean grab.
even worse than speculate, someone, conjecture. Your point was irrelevant and your personal dig afterwards was spurrious reaction.
Far from arguing the toss, I shall go into the garden for some dig digs.
“Far from arguing the toss”
nevermind 16 Mar, 2014 – 3:00 pm
I am not “arguing”!, I am given the relevant facts!, which you seem not to want!.
The situation in Ukraine has generated a tsunami of closed minded comments where most obfuscate the simple selfish human need of creating behemoth ‘bogymen’ for greed, gluttony and rapacity.
Sir Roderic Lyne, a spurious spokesman for Chatham House fails to mention the irresponsible talk of Ukraine EU and NATO membership, preferring instead to dwell on a ‘strict conditionality’ to [IMF] funding Ukraine, invoking the economic ‘hit man’ approach favored by the West.
http://www.chathamhouse.org/media/comment/view/197743?dm_i=1TYG,2893B,EBBWWI,82K3R,1
The west urgently needs to give a clear and unconditional assurance that it will help Ukraine to recover and for now there can be no question of Ukraine, or any part of Ukraine, becoming a member of either the EU or NATO.
History tells us Russia abandoned its plan for missile bases on Cuba while the US agreed to withdraw its missile bases on the Soviet border in Turkey. What happened? Russia is now surrounded by missile defence systems – laughable.
Straddling the wire ex Russian ambassador Rodric Braithwaite makes a weak contribution, invoking ‘democracy’ to real deeds somewhat void of truth and more towards exploitation of the Ukrainian people.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ukraine-crisis-no-wonder-vladimir-putin-says-crimea-is-russian-9162734.html
Putin is a mafioso, a hoodlum fighting the West’s proxy assassins, butchers and exterminators while their advocates sniff cocaine in the wooden panelled powder rooms of the politically elite temples, lodges and child abuse guest houses.
If the ‘Maidan revolution’ had been legitimate…
That is to say,had a democratically elected President been evicted via the ballot box, then Mr Putin’s moves would certainly be judged,as you maintain,illegitimate.
However, we, Britain, Europe and the Americans,implicated up to the hilt in a (another) putch here, can hardly cry foul.
May I remind you Mr Murray of;
The ‘Fuck Europe’ incident.
The ‘Ashton sniper’ incident.
This is about regime change and moving missiles up to Russia’s borders.
In a word Mr Murray, you are simply rooting for ‘my Mafia’ against ‘their Mafia’.
It is a pity you cant see that it is a case of ‘a plague on both your houses’.
Particularly Nuland’s and McCain,s whose short sighted actions are only going to perpetuate a world few of us want for our children.
Austerity just seems like more corruption to the Ukrainian people, Mark. If the EU really, really wants Ukraine, let them fund the bailout and tell the IMF to go fish.
Mark Golding – that seems like a fair and balanced assessment – can you maybe sit in for Craig for the next few posts on this issue perhaps, so that a balanced perspective can be put across?
The ever hapless Jen Tsaki vainly attempting to defend the indefensible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW1WDbDX7wE
Even the Washington Press corps can tell a bullshitter when they see one.
We should just surrender to Putin’s Akita now.
The US is run by fuckin morons and we’re following them to hell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N8zDnFBe9c
What happened all those clever clever clogs from West Wing.
“The ‘Fuck Europe’ incident.”
____________________
Well, those who claim to suffer shock at hearing AS Nuland use the “f” word are very naive and have obviously never had dealings with the world of diplomats speaking with the microphone off.
But of course their expression of shock are entirely synthetic.
More concretely: “fuck the EU” is trotted out regularly by those who wish the US and the West ill, but it is never contextualised lest it reveal something less than diabolical. Could someone do us the service of reminding readers to the precise context (preferably by using the verbatim of the conversation, which is widely available)? Ie, why “fuck the EU” according to AS Nuland? In response to what, exactly?
Mr Golding
“Putin is a mafioso, a hoodlum fighting the West’s proxy assassins, butchers and exterminators while their advocates sniff cocaine in the wooden panelled powder rooms of the politically elite temples, lodges and child abuse guest houses.”
_______________
You should really consult a pyschiatrist. But at least you’re not dangerous.
“What happened all those clever clever clogs from West Wing.”
Herbie; I am curious as to who you mean. ‘Clever’ can cover a wide area.
BRICS; A threat to the West.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-crisis-economic-sanctions-could-drive-a-fragile-world-economy-into-a-financial-quagmire/5373597
” Ukraine crisis is a major test of BRICS‘ geopolitical validity as an economic group, political force and potential military alliance. China, Russia’s biggest partner in BRICS, has been strangely muted about Ukraine and the Crimea referendum, urging for “restraint on all sides” and pushing for a political solution.
During the emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council on March 15, 2014, on a resolution to declare Crimea’s referendum illegal, China did not side with Russia by using its veto power but instead abstained from voting. China’s abstention does not fare well for the future of BRICS, as it plays into the strategy of the US and its EU partner to isolate Russia. China, by its abstention from the UN vote, and India, Brazil and South Africa, by their subdued responses, have already played into the hands of the US and its European allies. Will China and other BRICS members step in forcefully to stop the madness of multilateral economic sanctions?”
Habby
“Well, those who claim to suffer shock at hearing AS Nuland use the “f” word are very naive and have obviously never had dealings with the world of diplomats speaking with the microphone off.”
No one cares about her using the word “fuck”. That’s just talking point cover to distract from what was really going on.
The “Fuck the EU” relates directly to the scuppering of the agreement that had already been signed by EU, Russia and Ukraine opposition, from which the US was excluded.
Then the snipers came…
Ben
I don’t see anything clever, in any sense of the term for Tsaki and the other idiot.
I suppose the sad truth is that they don’t have to be especially clever anymore.
Americans are stupid enough to make deeply inadequate enough.
Current company excepted, of course.
“I agree!, I think Craig is undergoing some mental issues at the moment.”
By your comments you reveal more about yourself than anything else.
the upcoming meeting between EU, Russia and Ukraine opposition from which the US had been excluded.
Deal signed by above.
Then the snipers come.
“Fuck the EU”
In a criminal case that neocon Nuland would be examined closely on what exactly she meant by “Fuck the EU”.
It helps of course when the answer is obvious.
“You should really consult a pyschiatrist”
Have you gotten to this one, RD?
Those who keep talking about “Fuck the EU” are doing exactly what the mass media want them to do, as this video I keep posting that nobody watches, explains. It was what came before “Fuck the UK” that was important. Victoria Nuland sucking up to the Nazi godfathers.
http://scgnews.com/the-ukraine-crisis-what-youre-not-being-told
I see the video stopped RD commenting on that particular topic.
John Goss
Resident Dissident, argue against the video (did you watch it?)
Perhaps since it just repeats what has already been said – I would like to hear you arguments against this first
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/
Which of course comes from someone who knows rather more than you about fascism in this part of the world – and is not afraid to criticise those who support it from either side of the argument
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/feb/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
I wrote “Fuck the UK” in my last because we are part of Europe. Long may that continue.
Sorry for the length…
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/eu-and-imf-spell-disaster-for.html
“We only have to look at Poland, which is often put forward as an EU success story, to find clues about what would happen to Ukrainian workers under the umbrella of the EU.
Because Poland’s Gross Domestic Product grew in the years following the 2008 recession, the capitalist press dubbed the country’s growth, which has since slowed, as the “Polish Miracle.”
How did this “miracle” happen? What has the “miracle” meant for Polish workers?
The GDP of Poland has grown as a direct result of German investment and EU aid, while the situation for working people has not improved. In fact, the basic condition of this investment is the guarantee of cheap labor costs. When the recession hit, German capital simply went across the border where wages are lower.
The unemployment rate in Poland is 14 percent. One in 19 Poles are forced to leave the country to look for work—work that for the vast majority of emigrants is beneath their level of education and experience.
At 25 percent, Poland has one of the largest low-wage work forces in the European Union, according to the European Union itself. In reality this figure is much higher because the EU figures a country’s labor statistics by country and not in relation to the entire EU. For example, a low-wage worker in Germany makes over twice as much as a low-wage worker in Poland.
A staggering 35 percent of children in Poland now live in poverty.
On top of all this, in order to join the EU in 2004, Poland enacted drastic market reforms that greatly eviscerated the social safety net.
In other words, the EU, with the help of the IMF, has overseen the creation of Poland as a source of cheap labor for Germany and other European powers. Poland’s wealth has grown, but it has been diverted from the Polish masses to the German capitalist class.”
Then there was the Latvian economic “miracle”
http://www.gatewayhouse.in/latvia-economic-miracle-or-mangled-economy/