Today’s Independence Rally 463


You can see me speaking 24 minutes in here. Can’t work out how to embed this one. It was literally freezing and the very small crowd was understandable. I think four hour rallies outdoors in Scotland in midwinter are somewhat optimistic. I think we also need to face that the high excitement of the referendum campaign, where you could just put something out on Facebook and 10,000 people would show up, is behind us. What we have now is a period of hard graft towards the general election.

I think what I say in this short speech will give comfort to those in the SNP who blocked me as a candidate, because as usual I am joyfully off message. Shortly after me there is an amazing speech from Tommy Sheridan; his physical voice projection alone is astonishing! It was bouncing back off Salisbury Crags and Holyrood Palace.

This really is under 100 yards from where we live. That view of Salisbury Crags is what I see every time I look out the window. The balcony will be great once it gets a bit warmer.


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463 thoughts on “Today’s Independence Rally

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  • Clark

    Anon, strictly, a rising population requires an increase in the housing stock, or redistribution if there’s already empty space in that stock (hence the odious “bedroom tax” targeted at the poor). But crudely, yes, immigration should be accompanied proportionally by building.

    The right still won’t do it though, or rather, they won’t do it more than will make maximum profit. It’s a fairly simple exercise in linear programming to work out where the optimum profit-point lies.

  • Anon

    “Again, not the point. Especially as it is the right – all but the far-right – which has been the practical and conscious agent of the immigration”

    if you consider Cameron/Blair etc right-wing. I would put them both in the centre, perhaps leaning to the right, but certainly unfettered immigration and, for that matter, unfettered capitalism, are not right-wing policies, depending on how you define the terms, right-wing as a term of abuse having an altogether different meaning (broadly, any self-serving cunt), and whether you’re talking about social or economic policy, etc. There are neo-cons, who were mostly revolutionary Marxists, who aren’t right-wing but would be considered so by you, libertarians and paleocons, of which I am one, Conservatives in other words, who despise both Cameron and Blair, socially conservative but who aren’t far-right, not enamoured with endless growth. I’ll vote UKIP, tentatively, as the only non-extremist party to oppose mass-immigration and the EU. UKIP doesn’t want mass deportations, which is a smear of course.

  • Anon

    “But crudely, yes, immigration should be accompanied proportionally by building.”

    Finally we appear to have got there, sort of. Please replace “should be” with “has to be”.

    So, if you don’t want a situation in which a never-ending supply of housing is required because of a never-ending shortage due to immigration and one or two lesser factors, then a good start would be to cut back hard on immigration, right? Then we can start to think about how much we actually have to build. My guess would be very little as the native population is, or rather was, increasing very slowly.

  • Clark

    Anon, just a point of clarification – of the 60% of births to one or two “foreign” parents; how many of those “foreigners” are EU citizens? ‘Cos they may well migrate elsewhere when economic conditions change. I went looking but didn’t easily find.

    (I’m breaking off from repairing my fridge-freezer to comment; sorry to various for delayed replies.)

  • bjsalba

    You said:
    I think four hour rallies outdoors in Scotland in midwinter are somewhat optimistic.
    Understatement of the year.

    Podemos can do better, say some, but what is the average temperature in Spain when these evens are held?

  • Ba'al Zevul (no soy la casta)

    UKIP doesn’t want mass deportations, which is a smear of course.

    If anyone had suggested it did, it might be. Actually, its position is far vaguer….right now. Something along the lines of “immigration’s bayudd, m’kay?”.

    I enjoyed your faltering realisation that what I (for the purposes of level debate)consider to be right is heterogeneous. All that’s needed now is your realisation that the left is heterogeneous too. And that right and left both use the other’s cognomen as a term of abuse.

    It’s a lot simpler than you try to make it, though. Global corporatists naturally include Cameronians and Blairites -the witting agents of corporate globalisation and the betrayers of national identity. None of them believe (despite the debatably Marxist origins of the neocon core) in the means of production and distribution being owned in any sense by anyone other than an extremely wealthy corporation or individual. And there are palaeoconservatives – old-style, paternalistic, nationalist Tories who have found events moving too fast for them. Not many left, there. And there’s UKIP, tying itself in knots to attract Essex Man and Liam Fox with the same detail-free slogans.

  • Anon

    Glenn

    “Isn’t the problem of “affordable housing” something to do with the fact that rents are kept artificially high, by the vast transfer of money to private landlords from the generous taxpayer? People don’t get an affordable wage – the standard wage (i.e. the minimum that an employee can legally get away with) is insufficient to live on. So the taxpayer makes up the difference.”

    You’re right about rents having to be propped up by housing benefits and landlords using that to milk the taxpayer, resulting in artificially high rents, but that is a different matter to to that of the shortfall in housing availability, which is mainly due to immigration, especially in and around London. There is also the argument that scrapping housing benefits for those in work would force the housing market to reflect earners’ potential.

  • Republicofscotland

    I see the UK is to get its very own version, of China’s 50 Cent army.

    The British army will train operatives to scour social media, to look for those nasty terrorists.

    Of course you’ve more chance of being murdered by a member of your own family than by a terrorist.

    But don’t let that get in the way of a good story Eh?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31070114

    Meanwhile Jihadi John, and his band of Beatles have beheaded the second Japanese captive, Madame Tussauds must be a fortune from those wax models.

    Shinzo Abe, in his outrage, is almost as convincing as his nearest conspirator Mad Bad Tony Abbot, who, recently gave Prince Philip a knighthood.

    I don’t know who’s the more delirious Abbot or Prince Philip, maybe, they were both bitten by a Copperhead.

  • glenn

    Anon: I’ll certainly agree with you that vast amounts of immigration has got to have a significant effect. How can it not? Every other person working in service industries appears to be Polish, so unless we had a huge outflow of natives (which we have not), they will all need to be housed in some fashion.

    Concentrating all UK internal investment in and around London hasn’t helped either. The dual effect of pulling people in from outside the country altogether, and dragging the economy down outside London, has created an artificial demand. And rent levels are boosted by artificially inflating the amount people can pay, because the taxpayer will chip in a sizeable contribution.

    You have to remember who this benefits, though – The investor class. They like cheap labour just as much as they like charging £500/week for a grotty flat. This isn’t some leftie utopia, no matter how much the right wing cynically play it up as one.

  • Anon

    “All that’s needed now is your realisation that the left is heterogeneous too.”

    Sorry, I should have been clear on this. It’s the West-hating, False-flagging, conspiracy theorizing, Jew-hating, Israel-obsessed wankers I really can’t stand. And Russell Brand. 🙂

  • nevermind

    Land for housing is released in small parcels by those who own most land, if they release too much land, with supply moving towards meeting demand, then housing would get cheaper, which is not in any of the suckers interest.

    Why they own this land is something that needs highlighting, how it came about that land was given to some for reasons such as……?

    To blame immigration as the main factor is such a cheap shot.

  • Anon

    Talking of Russell “profit is filthy” Brand, I think he was present at Phil’s rally. It must have been comforting to hear the Hollywood homeowner’s perspective. Tax status still not confirmed.

  • Republicofscotland

    According to the Herald newspaper Labour are to roll out the messiah of politics, Gordon Brown, to thwart those pesky nats (Fred will be pleased).

    Brown, is to be called upon, because Jim Murphy appears not to be trusted by Scots, (except Fred of course) and to add insult to injury in Scotland Ed Miliband is loathed more than David Cameron, a truly remarkable feat from Labour.

    No doubt Gordon (heavyweight in politics) Brown, will do his rounds in closed acolyte shops, whilst the media and press laud his every word.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-lost-art-of-keeping-a-secret/#more-66231

  • Mary

    Anon linked to some tweet from Cathy Newman, Ch 4, in which she jeers about her treatment on a visit to a mosque.

    For information – some background from contributors to Medialens

    …”Netanyahu visits Paris terror attack site”…short email to Cathy Newman…
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1421090216.html

    CIA terrorist calls for Muslim on Muslim genocide, with implicit approval of Channel 4 interviewer
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1421951487.html

  • Clark

    Mary, 5:39 pm; the “Western” alliance having done so much to nurture the growth of ISIS, I expect that someone is now going to have to fight them. These extremists must create hell and terror for ordinary people in their vicinity.

    If the decision is made to fight, I think it should be done by ground troops with air support – this being a much more accurate method than drones, which is in turn much more accurate than air attacks alone. It certainly should NOT be done by arming and training local forces, as this is the policy that over decades has flooded regions with weaponry and extremist fighters.

    Any such action needs to proceed within international law, which means going to the UN and accepting its decisions.

    No such action can be justified without cutting off the weaponry and US funding which passes through the Gulf Monarchies, nor without taking very strong action against and ceasing to prop up Saudi Arabia – these being the root causes of the problem in the first place.

  • Jemand

    “No such action can be justified without cutting off the weaponry and US funding which passes through the Gulf Monarchies, nor without taking very strong action against and ceasing to prop up Saudi Arabia – these being the root causes of the problem in the first place.”

    Oh sure, like that has any chance of happening. Just tear up the security pact between the US, Israel and Saudi – the primary supplier of cheap energy to Wall Street and lynchpin of the petrodollar, and slap them down as if the whole thing had nothing to do with each other’s strategic security interests. Then hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

    Any other solutions out there that don’t require heaped table spoons of fairy dust and some magic beans?

  • Phil

    Jemand
    “Any other solutions out there that don’t require heaped table spoons of fairy dust and some magic beans?”

    In my opinion no. The human race is set to self destruct as long as we are slaves to capital and the wars essential to it’s rampacious rule. Bring forth the fairy dust of global revolution.

    Anon,
    Sorry I’m writing whilst pretty preoccupied with other things, mostly cooking. I’ll respond lter.

  • John Goss

    “Great speech from Tommy Sheridan.”

    A friend from your Labour Party entrist days?

    ———————————————————————–
    I’ll let Craig answer that for you.

    “I do wish comments would address the topic of the thread and not impute the motives of others.”

  • Mary

    Quite Clark. IS a nice little story to damn the Muslim to eternity. ZBC will not be telling the public that the rebel groups are funded by Saudi Arabis, Qatar and the US, including IS.

    There is a small thread on Medialens on Dannatt’s pronouncement made from his cosy grace and favour pad at the Tower, courtesy of a grateful monarch.

    •Former head of UK army: We’re reaping what we sowed in Iraq
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1422798332.html

    It includes a link to an Independent article.
    http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/former-head-of-uk-army-were-reaping-what-we-sowed-in-iraq–xy4B2iyaoe

  • RobG

    @Phil

    The human race has already self-destructed.

    I could, perhaps, be criticised for pulling up a deckchair and watching the last days of homo sapiens from the sidelines.

    But I do hope that whatever creatures follow us will be better beings than we were.

  • Phil

    Anon

    Yes of course immigrants live in houses (incidentally far from always social). However, this is entirely different than saying the housing shortage is down to immigration. The housing shortage would be solved by building more houses. Your argument suggests that living conditions, which includes housing, would be no problem if there was no immigration. I suggest that the murderous wealth grab we see in action would be happening anyway. We would still be enduring relentless attack from the feckless rich.

    Immigrants are not the problem. The powers that be promote this idea to divert our gaze from the real problem. Themselves. This is what UKIP serve.

  • Phil

    RobG
    “The human race has already self-destructed.”

    Maybe. I more optimistically suspect the end is nigh scenario is more cultural pressure to promote TINA. But no doubt we are too close to midnight.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Baal-Komodo writes, à propos my comment on the size of the Podemos demonstration and the size of demonstrations in the past for the Caudillo:

    “I think the official blog troll means that anyone inspiring massive public support is inherently evil. ”
    ____________________

    You once again think wrongly, Komodo.

    I meant that the size of a demonstration (in this case, in favour of Podemos) can mean anything or nothing and certainly cannot be used to demonstrate that the matter which brought about the demonstration is good or bad per se.

    Hence the reminder that demonstrations in favour of the Caudillo were as big as the onhe in favour of Podemos the other day.

    All clear now?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    There has been some interesting discussion on the housing/immigration nexus [cm.org – blah removed]

    Personally, as far as London is concerned, I believe there has been too much focus on the cost of buying and too little on the cost of renting. Renting is at the moment characterised by a completely free market as far as I understand.

    In that context – and avoiding the usual polemic on council housing having been sold off and not replaced – could anyone tell me how council house rents were priced pre-Thatcher? How were the rents fixed and on what basis/bases?

    Thanks to anyone who could help on this one.

  • Mary

    1 February 2015
    North Sea oil summit to hear pleas for action
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-31073640

    Industry body Oil and Gas UK is to call for “meaningful action” from government in order to tackle major challenges facing North Sea operators.

    Chief executive Malcolm Webb will tell an oil and gas summit in Aberdeen on Monday that “an unpredictable and harmful business environment” has put the sector “at great risk”.

    The body wants urgent tax cuts amid falling oil prices and rising costs.

    It also wants a new oil and gas regulator in place as soon as possible.

    [..]

    Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon and the UK government’s Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael will be among the participants.

    B I G oil and gas
    Executive
    Responsibility for setting Oil & Gas UK’s position on policy matters lies with the Board whose members represent a cross-section of the industry.

    The Board comprises twelve representatives from operator companies; ten representatives from contractor/supply chain companies; one representative from a non-operator or independent oil company; and the chief executive of Oil & Gas UK.

    Industry members of the Board are appointed for a period of two years, at which point they are required to stand down and offer themselves up for re-election, with the ability to serve for a total period of five years. This ensures a rotation cycle and a broad representation of the membership on the Board.

    Co-Chairs
    Trevor Garlick
    Regional President North Sea BP

    John Pearson
    Group President
    AMEC Europe

    Vice Co-Chairs

    Glen Cayley
    Upstream Director UK and Ireland
    Shell Upstream International

    Adrian Rose
    Vice President for Europe Operations
    Transocean Ltd.

    Honorary Treasurer

    Archie Kennedy
    Managing Director
    Nexen Petroleum U.K. L

    A full list of Board members is available here.
    http://www.oilandgasuk.co.uk/aboutus/executive.cfm

  • Dreoilin

    O/T

    Well, well, well …

    “MOSCOW, February 1 (Sputnik) – The United States took an active part in the February 2014 coup in Ukraine, which installed pro-Western authorities, US President Obama told CNN Sunday.

    “And since Mr. Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine — not because of some grand strategy, but essentially because he was caught off-balance by the protests in the Maidan and [Ukraine’s then-President Viktor] Yanukovych then fleeing after we had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine,” Obama said in an interview.

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150201/1017625288.html#ixzz3QWkLPaRh

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