Britnats’ Divide and Rule 86


David Torrance quotes me as evidence – indeed the only evidence – of a “Great Divide” in the SNP between fundamentalists and gradualists. There certainly are differences, but they are just differences over tactics rather than goals.

I am quite open that I fear that the trivial diversion of extremely shallow extra powers for Holyrood will consume energies better spent on campaigning for independence. And it is certainly true that I believe that during this very right wing Tory Westminster government is the best time to hold another referendum, and that missing the chance could be a disaster.

But there are others just as committed to independence who are more tactically cautious. This is a debate about tactics in which people can quite legitimately hold different opinions. I bear no grudge towards the advocates of a cautious approach, and I have experienced not one iota of hostility from anyone in the SNP following my article which Torrance quotes.

The one point on which I do feel extremely strongly is that the decision on the party’s position on a second referendum must ultimately be taken democratically by the membership, not handed down by the leadership. As long as the way forward is democratically decided, there will be no “great divide” in the SNP, no matter how much the Britnats may yearn for it.

Jim Murphy is getting almost as much extended coverage on quitting in abject failure as leader, as he did when appointed as head of the Scottish accounting unit. For the uninitiated, a particular Blairite reduction in freedom was new legislation stipulating that you could only have a registered party name or “independent” on the ballot paper in elections. Before you could have any brief description you like, such as “fight the bypass” etc. But the Electoral Commission ruled that “Scottish Labour” could appear on ballot papers even though there is no such registered party. When challenged, the Electoral Commission invented the pathetic excuse that “Scottish Labour” was the name of an accounting unit within the Labour Party and – they made this next bit up on the spot – descriptions of accounting units within registered parties are allowed on the ballot. Somebody should set up a party with an accounting unit entitled “the Electoral Commission are Corrupt” and put that on the ballot.

Anyway Jim Murphy today “likened the atmosphere in the TV debates in Scotland to a “quasi-religious rock concert so whatever truth you told it did not really matter”.” This is a ridiculous lie. The TV debates audience in Scotland were dour and aggressively unionist, notably vocal in opposition to any second referendum. This is because the broadcasters selected the audience according to the results of the 2010 General Election, meaning only a quarter supported independence and they were massively pro-Labour. Murphy could not have had a more sympathetic audience. He failed in the debates because he was rubbish.

I am willing to lay a large sum of money that the TV companies never select an audience based on the 2015 General Election results.


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86 thoughts on “Britnats’ Divide and Rule

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  • MJ

    “I believe that during this very right wing Tory Westminster government is the best time to hold another referendum, and that missing the chance could be a disaster”

    What chance is that? Your opportunity was in 2014. You’re not going to get another referendum during this government, the next one or the one after that.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Lysias – keep out of what doesn’t concern you, there’s a good chap.

    BTW – anything interesting in the latest “Navy Times”? “Neues Deutschland”?

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Defo

    “Long time reader, first post.”

    ___________________

    If this is really your first post, Defo, then welcome. Stay sane, keep your obsessions (if any) under control and resist the temptation just to post to show how “clever” you think you are and you won’t have any trouble from me.

    One little plea though, if I may : it’s about apostrophe control. Keep an eye on apostrophes, there’s a good chap. No more “the comment’s are fab” if you’d be so kind.

  • Republicofscotland

    “Lysias – keep out of what doesn’t concern you, there’s a good chap.”
    ________________________

    You’re wrong Habb,it does concern Lysais it concerns us all including you, you were correct on this occasion,but you’ve been wrong in the past,but haven’t been gracious enough to own up.

    I wonder why?

  • Defo

    Consider me told Habba. And yes, I’m real.
    As for clever, that’s (correct apostrophe use ?) for others to judge. I tend towards self depreciation.

    O/T WTF is a union boss being elevated to the big house ?
    Strange days !

  • Republicofscotland

    “Is that habba guy getting paid, or is he only here for fun ?”
    _______________________

    Defo welcome.

    Some would say Habb is being paid but lets just say it’s not by Craig….you seem smart enough to work it out.

  • Mary

    The new Minister of Justice is a law unto himself.

    I will repeat the John Locke quote ‘Where the law ends, tyranny begins’.

    This in 2010 was similar behaviour Nevermind.

    Michael Gove’s 25-year-old ex-adviser given £500,000 free schools grant
    Pro-free schools lobby group won project work – which was not advertised – to offer impartial advice on the proposals http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/oct/27/michael-gove-adviser-free-schools-contract

    Probably unchallenged by NuLabour.

  • Ron Jeremy

    If ask me Mr Republic, this Herb fella comes across as a sanctimonious know it all. At least you gave courage when you post on here- and with some tongue in cheek humour. Habb posts meanwhile are largely long winded, meandering and I struggle to finish reading them.

  • Republicofscotland

    “If ask me Mr Republic, this Herb fella comes across as a sanctimonious know it all. At least you gave courage when you post on here- and with some tongue in cheek humour. Habb posts meanwhile are largely long winded, meandering and I struggle to finish reading them.”
    _________________

    Thank you Ron Jeremy for your kind words.

    Most posters on here are like yourself seeking info or clarification on wordly matters,some however like Habb I’m afraid to say would rather we were kept in the dark.

  • Defo

    RoS. Thanks.
    It’s the diversity of opinion (paid or otherwise) that makes this comment section compelling reading. Take away the ‘opposition’, and all that’s left is a dull echo chamber.
    The personal attacking could do with toning down though. Nobody gains, and it soon loses comedy value.

    Saor Alba. (giving away obsessions)

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Defo

    So that’s us off on the right foot, eh. Good: the saner elements on the blog could do with some reinforcement, I hope you’re one.

    Re. “O/T WTF is a union boss being elevated to the big house ?
    Strange days !”: this may be strange ever since Margaret Thatcher but was common enough before then. Lords Citrine (Walter Citrine) and Jones (Jack Jones) refer as only two examples amoung several.

  • fred

    “What chance is that? Your opportunity was in 2014. You’re not going to get another referendum during this government, the next one or the one after that.”

    Nationalists use underpants gnome logic.

    1. Lose referendum.
    2. ???
    3. Get independence.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    “Ron Jeremy”

    “Habb posts meanwhile are largely long winded, meandering and I struggle to finish reading them.”
    _________________

    I can be blamed for many things, Ron, but your inadequate reading skills and lack of concentration are surely not amoung them.

  • Republicofscotland

    “RoS. Thanks.
    It’s the diversity of opinion (paid or otherwise) that makes this comment section compelling reading. Take away the ‘opposition’, and all that’s left is a dull echo chamber.
    The personal attacking could do with toning down though. Nobody gains, and it soon loses comedy value.

    Saor Alba. (giving away obsessions)”
    ____________________________________

    Yes Defo,I think you’ve hit the nail on the head their with that comment.

    Never stop asking questions,look forward to reading more of your comments

    Soar Alba,indeed.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    RoS

    “Most posters on here are like yourself seeking info or clarification on wordly matters”

    ______________________

    Close reading of posts would seem to indicate otherwise, with the words/expressions “having fun”, “sharing obsessions”, “verbal incontinence” and “self-aggrandizement” coming to mind rather rapidly.

  • Mary

    That Rachel Wolf mentioned above is the daughter of Martin Wolf, the Financial Times chief economics commentator.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/time-for-change-how-a-young-woman-plans-to-shake-up-the-school-system-1818636.html

    This article about Gove’s new adviser Agnew refers to a Rachel de Souza, one time head teacher at the Victory Academy Norwich. Agnew appointed her as chief executive of his Inspiration Trust.

    Theodore Agnew – from 11-plus misery and brothel cleaning to business success and a top job at Department for Education
    09 August 2013
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/oct/27/michael-gove-adviser-free-schools-contract

  • Republicofscotland

    “Close reading of posts would seem to indicate otherwise, with the words/expressions “having fun”, “sharing obsessions”, “verbal incontinence” and “self-aggrandizement” coming to mind rather rapidly.”
    _____________________________

    Typical Habby boy attacking posters for their spelling mistakes, when you yourself have posted comments with similar mistakes,you do yourself no favours,with your trivial and petty quibs.

    But of course that’s your remit,to stop posters commenting on the likes of Israel,Westminster or the longest recipients of state benefits in the history of the welfare state the Royals.

  • Ron Jeremy

    Jeez- this Habb guy takes himself very seriously. Thanks though, you just underscored my previous point beautifully.

    Oh the irony!!

  • Defo

    “I am quite open that I fear that the trivial diversion of extremely shallow extra powers for Holyrood will consume energies better spent on campaigning for independence.”
    With what seems like half the population campaigning, there’s no need to worry about wasted energy Craig.

    The pantomime being played out re FFA/Devo max is important.
    The unionist hierarchy and their media buddies are being shown up for the lying, self serving gits they are, re all those broken promises epitomised by The Vow. When the show is over, another impediment to independence is gone. The target audience are those who were suckered into a No, and the soft No’s (apt apostrophe ?).

    As for Fundys vs Grads, would the direct approach have gotten us this far, or killed us ?

  • Suhayl Saadi

    “Close reading of posts would seem to indicate otherwise, with the words/expressions “having fun”, “sharing obsessions”, “verbal incontinence” and “self-aggrandizement” coming to mind rather rapidly.” Habbabkuk, 8:43pm, today.

    Habbabkuk, what’s wrong with having fun occasionally? The multiverse is cold and vast. Humour is both necessary – we are social animals and (at the risk of sounding like a Sid James line from a ‘Carry On’ film), it does help to lubricate social intercourse – and of course it can be effective as a communication tool. Anyway, it’s clear from your posts here that whoever you are, you too have a keen sense of humour – which is good!

    And so, good readers, one can see, as though a glass newly-lighted in the gently dizzying tilt of first dew, that all of the above expressions bar none apply in spades to me!

    Btw, I see that you spelled ‘self-aggrandisement’ with a ‘z’ and not an ‘s’. this must indicate that you are an American spy. Either that, or a Canadian spy. Or possibly, a Mexican spy. or maybe, a Guatemalan… Or a burqa-clad Saudi trained in tradecraft by by an ageing transvestite member of the FBI.

  • Republicofscotland

    It’s akin to Vlad the Impaler,writing to Hitler,saying you’re doing a grand job.

    Suspected paedophile Lord Janner wrote to Michael Jackson congratulating him on being cleared of child sex charges, it emerged yesterday.

    The Labour peer, who has avoided prosecution over 22 child abuse allegations, sent the letter shortly after the singer was cleared by an American jury of molesting a 13-year-old cancer survivor.

    Using personalised House of Lords paper, he wrote: ‘I was so very pleased at the news of your acquittal. What a terrible time you have endured.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123403/Labour-peer-Lord-Janner-accused-child-sex-abuse-wrote-Michael-Jackson-congratulating-cleared-molesting-child.html

    Not one of my favourite news rag to quote from..but.

  • Republicofscotland

    Theresa May this is the incompetent gluteus maximus,that made a mess of the Border Agency,then tried to blame it on her minions, at Westminster failure and inadequacy are rewarded.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/nov/09/theresa-may-likely-survive-borders

    The home secretary, Theresa May, has refused to share with law enforcement agencies or communications companies the full details of her new “snooper’s charter”, raising fresh fears that she is seeking to limit dissent in order to steamroller the controversial laws through parliament.

    The revelation, contained in a report into the future of surveillance legislation published by David Anderson QC, the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, was described as “extraordinary” by the recently retired leader of the Association of Chief Police Officers, Sir Hugh Orde.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/13/snoopers-charter-theresa-may-refuse-to-share?CMP=share_btn_fb

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Suhayl

    You don’t show any of those defects. Re “having fun” I was thinking of the stuff RobG churns out. Ie, not funny but just some bored bloke posting any old rubbish for laughs.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    English/Scots libel law badly needs reforming – much more than was achieved a couple of years ago. It’s become a sick joke. It is a friend of the powerful all over the world. I think one can be sued by anyone, any Tom, Dick, Harry of Crook, from anywhere on the planet, or even by the astronauts in space, whether you live in Antarctica or Siberia, simply by the person bringing a case against you in a British court. Americans have the reputation for being litigious yet by comparison with the super-injunctions censorship, etc. of the English (and sadly, Scots Law follows the English law in this regard) legal system, US libel law is a model of justice and common sense.

  • Habbabkuk (la vita è bella)

    Republicofscotland

    “http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3123403/Labour-peer-Lord-Janner-accused-child-sex-abuse-wrote-Michael-Jackson-congratulating-cleared-molesting-child.html

    Not one of my favourite news rag to quote from..but.”

    _____________________-

    Nor mine, I must admit. But that’s not the case with our Irish-American friend, I believe.

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