The Dysfunctional United Kingdom 2388


Recently an Angus mother of three infant children was separated from them and jailed for ten months for over-claiming £10,000 per year in benefits. Meanwhile the Duke of Westminster evades £3.6 billion in inheritance tax through a transparently fraudulent use of trusts which “have the option” to give the money to someone else instead.

The United Kingdom is a socially backward and sometimes vicious polity, an island which prides itself on the state enforced conservatism which allowed it to evade intellectually motivated reform and retain a historical legacy of gross injustice and privilege.

For historical reasons land reform is an immensely popular cause in Scotland, and one of so many areas where SNP timidity is a deep, deep disappointment. The fact that they are covered in buildings does not make the vast London estates of the Grosvenors any more acceptable than the unnecessarily empty Highland estates where golden eagles are destroyed so the chinless wonders, hedge fund managers and sheikhs can blast away at tame grouse.

The late Duke of Westminster is characterised as a “philanthropist” by mainstream media even though the percentage of both his income and his wealth he gave to charity was less than most ordinary people’s mite, myself included, and I am willing to bet that what he did do, was tax-deductible. That a parasite who sat on £9 billion of unearned money in a country where disabled people commit suicide from poverty, and who got two O levels from Harrow, was Prince Charles’ closest friend, cuts through the lying propaganda about the Royal family we are constantly fed.

The political class have a deliberate will not to enforce inheritance tax on the super wealthy. They have a political will not to tackle landlordism, which as it affects both residential and commercial tenants is a fundamental malaise of the British economy. Neither problem is technically difficult. The problem is that the political class as a whole are in the pockets of the super-wealthy, promote their interests and ache to join them.

Which is why in the UK it is important that the threat to them posed by Corbyn is maintained, and why in Scotland it is essential that the SNP membership now push their own leadership into bold action on fundamental land reform and Independence. To call the current SNP approach to both issues desultory would be excessively polite.

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2,388 thoughts on “The Dysfunctional United Kingdom

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  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Just continue to be mystified by all Britain’s parasites being treated specially by their aristocratic associates, like the Duke giving the Tebbitts almost a rent free place in Belgravia after the Brighton bombing, and the Cambridges being allowed to use his jet for almost nothing.

    According to Moore apparently, it’s just more evidence of living in a free society.

    This even beats what the American upper class loonies do.

      • Habbabkuk

        Just three comments on Nevermind’s post ( above):

        1/. It is perhaps unfair to talk about a mysterious silence while at the same time linking to an article in a national newspaper which talks about the matter;

        2/. It is perhaps premature to talk about a fraudulent electoral system before fraud has actually been proved;

        3/. It is perhaps unfair to talk about laid-back enquiries given that the police forces in question do perhaps have other matters to deal with as well.

        • fred

          The police aren’t actually investigating anything because they haven’t been asked to. The application for an extension was made just in case the Electoral Commission should decide to ask them to investigate at some time in the future.

        • nevermind

          The article shows that since June an awry silence has clouded this issue of breaking electoral law on a large scale and by a main political party. Possibly 29 MP’s were elected by cheating their expenses, spending far too much than the allowed sums.
          Spending limits are there for a reason, they should demand attention from all parties, especially those who want to govern the country and are purporting to be fair.

          This case is not an excuse to widen the investigation, despite the fact that the anachronistic unfair electoral system, as well as the toothless electoral Commission invited electoral fraud for decades.

          There should be 29 by elections or a GE be called. The electoral commission should take note of past fraud and were it happened, regardless of what party, and strengthen its staff to monitor the elections. Alternatively, should they be short staffed, they can call upon the OSCE to monitor elections here, after all that is what happens in such situations elsewhere.

          If you have never involved yourself in an election, have never completed electoral returns before, then perhaps you should accept the words of those who have, winning or losing does not come into this, there are rules and regulations which apply to all.

          well they should!

          • fred

            In Britain we have a system for dealing with these matters. First there is an investigation by the Electoral Commission, if they decide their rules have been broken they will take action and if they decide the law has been broken they ask the police to investigate and the police then make a report to the CPS who decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial. If there is a reasonable chance of a conviction then there is a court case in which all the facts are heard, arguments made by those learned in the law and a judgement made by an independent jury.

            You are just declaring people guilty right at the start.

          • Habbabkuk

            That’s all as may be, Nebelmind, but you appear to be convinced that fraud has taken place.

            Given that no complaints have yet been filed (thank you for that, Fred) and given that if they were to be filed there would have to be an investigation according to the rules, the result of which cannot be known hic et nunc, what is your basis for asserting that fraud has taken place?

            If I were one of the people you accuse, I should think seriously about suing you for defamation.

    • Republicofscotland

      At least the American’s had the good sense to abolish the monarchy, still the Great Satan, (US governments) overthrew with the aid of a backed movement (sound familiar?) The Hawaiian monarchy.

      Even the French saw the light, as Emperor Napoleon III, acted as president of the French Second Republic, elected by a popular vote.

      However on the downside he was also Emperor of the Second French empire, and when parliament stopped him running for a second term, he engineered a coup d etat in 1851.

      The monarchy just can’t be trusted. ?

      • michael norton

        Would you rather have Tony Blair running Britain,
        he is pure evil filthy rich NULABOUR SCUM

        • Republicofscotland

          No I don’t prefer Blair, but Blair could and was removed as PM, we don’t have that choice with the monarchy. They’re unelected and reproduce copiously costing the taxpayers dearly over many decades.

          Presidents and Prime Ministers, cost considerably less, and are in most cases democratically removed.

          • Habbabkuk

            The comparison is rather silly, RoS, since the functions of the Monarch and the Prime Minister in the UK are somewhat different.

            I am, however, heartened to see that you consider the UK to be a democracy.

          • Republicofscotland

            Not necessarily, a Prime Minister or President for that matter is perfectly capable of performing duties (I use the word sparingly) that Royals presently perform, and at a fraction of the cost.

            However, I doubt any PM or president, would dance around waving a scimitar, whilst Saudi prince’s look on and clap and laugh. But then again royalty has no real moral fibre.

            Royalty is a antiqued notion, best left on the pages of history, the romantic notion of a prince charming or a Ruritanian society, is distasteful, if not odious.

          • Habbabkuk

            RoS

            You should pay more attention. At least to what you yourself write.

            You were complaining that one cannot remove a Monarch as Head of State whereas one can remove an elected Head of State.

            I replied that the comparison was silly because in the UK the functions and powers of the two are wholly different.

            Your reply to my critique was to start talking about whether a President could do the job of Head of State as well as a Monarch and that a Presidential Head of State would be cheaper.

            In other words, you were unable – or chose not – to answer my point, opting instead, as so often when floored, to divert. 🙂

            Gamma minus.

          • Republicofscotland

            “I replied that the comparison was silly because in the UK the functions and powers of the two are wholly different.”

            ___________

            Habb.

            What function can royalty perform, that’s pertinent to modern day society, that a PM or president could not? Nations such as Fance and Germany, seem to get by without the royal touch.

            I’m pretty sure the UK could as well.

          • Goodwin

            @RoS

            If all your imagination allows you to strive for is to just “get by” like the French and Germans then you have about 2 years to relocate there.

          • Republicofscotland

            Goodwin.

            One would say by your reply that, there is indeed no need for the monarchy.

          • Habbabkuk

            Ros

            “Habb.

            What function can royalty perform, that’s pertinent to modern day society, that a PM or president could not?”
            ___________________

            Probably none.

            But that wasn’t your original point, was it.

            Your original point was that a President can be democratically removed whereas a hereditary monarch Head of State cannot.

            However,I can understand why, having been floored by my reply to your original “thought”, you are trying to divert. 🙂

        • Mick McNulty

          A commenter in the Guardian suggested the Labour NEC attacks on Jeremy Corbyn are because Blair is terrified a Corbyn government will examine all the Iraq evidence with a view to war crimes prosecutions for those involved. And of course, all those who voted for the invasion like Angela Eagle would at the very least be guilty by association. He may have a point.

          • Habbabkuk

            McNulty

            Your comment supposes that the current Labour NEC is either Blairite and/or being manipulated by Mr Blair.

            I gather you would tend to support that view.

            If I were unkind, I would go further and suggest that the second part of your comment implies that there are people on the current NEC who voted for the Iraq war (insofar as they were MPs at the time. (But since I am a kind person, I shall just suggest you are deceitfully conflating two separate things.

            Anyway, here is a list of the members of the current Labour NEC. Can you tell us which of them are Blairites?

            Leader of the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn MP
            Deputy Leader of the Labour Party Tom Watson MP

            Treasurer Diana Holland
            Opposition Front Bench Rebecca Long-Bailey MP
            Opposition Front Bench Jon Trickett MP
            Opposition Front Bench Jonathan Ashworth MP
            EPLP Leader Glenis Willmott MEP
            Young Labour Jasmin Beckett
            Div. I – Trade Unions Keith Birch
            Div. I – Trade Unions Jim Kennedy
            Div. I – Trade Unions Andi Fox
            Div. I – Trade Unions Paddy Lillis (Chair)
            Div. I – Trade Unions Wendy Nichols
            Div. I -Trade Unions Andy Kerr
            Div. I – Trade Unions Martin Mayer
            Div. I – Trade Unions Mary Turner
            Div. I – Trade Unions Jennie Formby
            Div. I – Trade Unions Cath Speight
            Div. I – Trade Unions Pauline McCarthy
            Div. I – Trade Unions Jamie Bramwell
            Div. II – Socialist Societies James Asser
            Div. II – BAME Labour Keith Vaz MP
            Div. III – CLPs Darren Williams
            Div. III – CLPs Johanna Baxter
            Div. III – CLPs Ann Black
            Div. III – CLPs Ellie Reeves (Vice Chair)
            Div. III – CLPs Christine Shawcroft
            Div. III – CLPs Pete Willsman
            Div. IV – Labour Councillors Ann Lucas
            Div. IV – Labour Councillors Alice Perry
            Div. V – PLP/EPLP Margaret Beckett MP
            Div. V – PLP/EPLP Dennis Skinner MP
            Div. V – PLP/EPLP Shabana Mahmood MP

            Thanks.

    • Habbabkuk

      Ford

      On what basis are you calling Norman Tebbit a “parasite”?

      Re being offered a place free of rent, what is the moral or ethical objection to that? Would rent subsidies or rent rebates would also meet with your disapproval?

      • Alan

        “On what basis are you calling Norman Tebbit a “parasite”?”

        That’s so easy; on the basis that he is a politician.

        • Habbabkuk

          Is it not slightly immature to say that all politicians are parasites?

          Doesn’t that make any discussion about politics and matters impossible?

          • Alan

            “Is it not slightly immature to say that all politicians are parasites?”

            Well actually, if you are one of those people who need smiley faces to tell when somebody is using slightly dry humour, here you go 🙂 🙂 🙂

            So what’s this big bust-up between your boss and Liam Fox?

          • michael norton

            I would guess the three most anti-E.U. top tories are Ian Duncan Smith, John Redwood and Dr.Fox.
            Out of those three, only Fox currently has a top job.
            Now Boris is more nuanced – meaning he is not as far to the extreme right as Fox,
            so they may be tussling to get their particular ideology through, difficult for Boris as he does not seem to have any ideology, rather like Dave Cameron.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          That was a very good question, Alan, and bears directly on the question of parasitic politicians. The problem with Fox is that he wants to subvert the normal channels in order to go a-roving with his lucrative trade contacts, and, presumably, with friend Adam. His particular interests are arms and ‘healthcare’, both of which would flourish – though not their victims – if the FCO were privatised.

          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/13/liam-fox-and-boris-johnson-locked-in-feud-over-who-controls-brit/

    • michael norton

      Sweden’s youngest ever government minister, Aida Hadzialic, has resigned after being caught driving over the alcoholic limit.

      Hadzialic, 29, is minister for higher education in the centre-left government and Sweden’s first Muslim minister.

      She called the drink-driving incident “the greatest mistake of my life”.

      Hadzialic, who arrived in Sweden aged five from Bosnia-Hercegovina, drank two glasses of wine before being stopped on the bridge linking Denmark and Sweden.

      She faces a possible term of up to six months in prison after police detected a blood-alcohol level of 0.2 grams per litre.

      Six months in jug for two glasses of plonk, bloody steep,
      I know Muslim people are not suppose to drink, but I rather admire this young paliamentarian for taking the honourable road and resigning.
      That wouldn’t happen in Britain.

      • nevermind

        Nope, here convicted drink drivers who have killed using their car as a weapon, are allowed back on to the roads by soft judges.

        There isn’t a single judge who would ban these murderous drivers from pur public roads for life, and that is what is needed.

        ‘ you sir/madam have continued to drink and drive after your first conviction, now you have killed a members of the public. We can not trust you to drive safely on the road ever again, you are banned for life’.

    • Republicofscotland

      You mean they beat women with chains, at the George Bush Centre for Intelligence? Any foreign agency running a HUMINT programme knows where the real ISIS-land began.

      • Alan

        Oh do come on, that just has to be an oxymoron. You just can’t use”George Bush” and “Intelligence” in the same sentence, surely?

        • Republicofscotland

          That’s the official title of the CIA’s headquarters at Langley.

          And if you like that you’ll love the CIA’s unofficial – motto: “And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.”

  • michael norton

    Six passengers were injured when a 27-year old Swiss man poured out flammable liquid inside a train in the Swiss canton of St. Gallen and set it alight, local police say. The alleged perpetrator was also armed with a knife.

    The assailant was also among the seven people injured, the newspaper Tagesanzeiger has reported, citing police, adding that six passengers have been hospitalized with knife and burn injuries.

    “At least one child is among those wounded,” Bruno Metzger, a spokesperson for St. Gallen police, is quoted as saying by St. Galler’s Tagblatt newspaper.

    RT

  • Republicofscotland

    According to this report George Soros, reached out and got the US government to intervene in another sovereign nations affairs. The information comes from the latest round of Wikileaks, regarding Hillary Clinton.

    The report also claims that George Soros, is Hillary Clinton’s second highest donor, behind Haim and Cheryl Saban.

    http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=55331

  • Trowbridge H. Ford

    Found what the 6th Duke of Westminster told his heir most interesting well before he died:

    “He has to put back what he has been given,” though he himself fell well short of that commitment.

  • RobG

    In response to something I was banging on about in the previous page of this comment thread, Alan posted a very good link. I’ll post the link here again for those who may have missed it, because it’s a pretty good assessment of where we’re now at…

    http://thesaker.is/false-flags-fluttering-in-the-empires-hot-air/

    I don’t agree with everything that Sakar says, and I don’t think he states the case strongly enough.

    We could talk about the big *white* lorry that we’re told ploughed through 100s of people on a promenade in the south of France, killing 85 of them, yet there’s not a speck of blood on the big *white* lorry (the people who perpetrate these events totally take the piss out of the public).

    We could also talk about cognitive dissonance…

  • YKMN

    Looks like blowback will soon happen from the Panama Papers shock exposé [& shocked shocked non-exposé of Ducal trust-funds]

    The earliest ‘victim’ was the former Icelandic prime-minister Mr wassisname-son, but the poll of polls for the subsequent forthcoming parliamentary elections show that THE PIRATE PARTY is approaching 30% of the population’s voting intention, and the next PM is very likely to be Ms wassername-jonsdottir, she will have the largest number of MPs in the small but ancient parliament.

    In case the trolls have mislaid her bulk personal dataset, they should start here: http://www.occupy.com/article/fighting-surveillance-state-interview-icelands-birgitta-jonsdottir

  • Chris

    An independent (or rather, separate) Scotland would still be a capitalist country. It would still be run by the wealthy elite.

    • Republicofscotland

      Possibly, but it would remove a layer of needless government, namely Westminster.

        • nevermind

          yes the taking back control and not saving the NHS date has been set back to 2019, patience is of the order.

        • Republicofscotland

          I wouldn’t go as far as to say the EU is useless, many jobs in the UK rely on trade with EU nations. If Scotland gains independence it will hopefully remain in the EU, if the cards fall correctly.

          Yes the EU sets rules and regulations, that need to be upheld by it members governments, that’s part of the cost, for the advantages of being a member.

      • Habbabkuk

        RoS

        Unless of course you consider the Scottish Assembly to be the useless layer of government in a United Kingdom.

        • Republicofscotland

          Don’t you mean the Holyrood parliament?

          No Habb, I do not, the Scottish government in my opinion are doing a remarkable job, of running Scotland, with one hand tied behind their backs.

          They do not have the political and fiscal levers that independent nations take for granted, yet they balance books year in, and year out.

          They don’t have access to Westminster’s favourite trick of quantitative easing, code for we’re incompetent so lets print tonnes of cash.

          Nor can the Holyrood government borrow their way out of trouble, Westminster however, has been everywhere cap in hand, along with selling gilts, that future taxpayers will pay off till their dying days.

          The other incompetent political parties in Scotland, Labour, LibDems and the Tories, railed last year that the SNP government hadn’t spent all of its budget. Thankfully the SNP government had the sense to retain some of its liquidity, of which it has allocated a £100 million pounds of it, to help businesses across Scotland, during this difficult Brexit fiasco.

          • Habbabkuk

            ” Scottish government in my opinion are doing a remarkable job, of running Scotland, with one hand tied behind their backs {sic}”
            ____________________

            Spot the usual alibi in the last seven words.

  • Paul Barbara

    @ Craig
    ‘…Which is why in the UK it is important that the threat to them posed by Corbyn is maintained,…’

    ‘Labour Appeal: Fury as Appeal Court Judge Philip Sales’ intimate links to Tony Blair revealed
    By Matt Turner – 12th August 2016
    http://evolvepolitics.com/labour-appeal-fury-as-high-court-judge-phili p-sales-intimate-links-to-tony-blair-revealed/

    Tony Blair Justice Philip Sales
    In what is a consolation victory for the Labour Party’s establishment in the Court of Appeal, it has been revealed by WikiLeaks that there may be more to the decision than meets the eye.

    After Sir Philip Sales QC overruled the previous High Court decision to allow the 130,000 disenfranchised Labour Party members to vote in the up and coming leadership election – notorious whistle-blower Wikileaks revealed that Sales had been a Blair insider for years, having been recruited as Junior Counsel to the Crown in 1997.

    Follow
    WikiLeaks ✔ @wikileaks
    #Corbyn vote exclusion Court of Appeal judge Philip Sales was Blair insider for years http://is.gd/sales1 & http://is.gd/sales2
    5:53 PM – 12 Aug 2016
    1,408 1,408 Retweets 881 881 likes
    The literature cited by WikiLeaks confirms that immediately after Labour’s victory in the 1997 general election, Sales was recruited by Tony Blair. Interestingly, it also reveals that Sales used to be a practising barrister at law chambers 11KBW, of which Tony Blair was a founder member. At the time of the appointment, there was uproar over Sales’ appointment and plunged Blair into a cronyism row.

    According to The Guardian’s coverage of the sexual discrimination case brought against Sales’ appointment, a source close to the case referred to 11KBW as a ‘network of old boys and cronies’, and that there was ‘no coincidence that the appointment came from Lord Irvine’s and Tony Blair’s old chambers’.

    Since his appointment in 1997, Sir Philip Sales managed to rack up a hefty bill to the taxpayer as the highest earning lawyer in the entire government. Moreover, as a key part of Blair’s legal team, he also defended the Government’s decision against holding a public inquiry into the Iraq War in the High Court in 2005.

    Clearly, there is no evidence of wrongdoing, only that of a conflict of interest. Sales’ deep involvement in the Labour Party during the Blair years will raise questions about the legitimacy of his shock ruling in favour of the National Executive Committee, especially as there was an evident breach of contract.

    Despite these 130,000 members being told in black and white that they were eligible to vote in upcoming leadership elections upon registration, today they have been officially cast aside by their own party in an attempt to skew a result that is already a foregone conclusion. The biggest kick in the teeth, however, is that the permission to do so was granted by a former key lawyer of Tony Blair’s Labour government.’

    I wonder if some disenfranchised members will sue Sales for not disclosing interest, and recusing himself?

    • nevermind

      Thanks for that Paul Barbara, this confirms my suspicion that parts of the judiciary is involved in the campaign against Corbyn.

      Both cases should have been dismissed and batted back to the NEC to deal with, rather than interfere and fetter themselves on members monies.
      Now who will hear this case in the High court now.

      I hope you don’t mind me sharing what you wrote….

  • Brianfujisan

    Just to Toss this into the Mix

    Damien, who was at the Opening of ‘ The Killings of tony blair ‘ as was Craig..talks to George G.

    About the implications of yesterdays Blairite ruling against Corbyn. Re Contracts for, Well Everything…

    From 32 mins in

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GBvQiVL2kY

  • Anon1

    This, from “Loony”, ought to be pasted on the wall of the blog.

    “Since 2000 it is estimated by the Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories that 9,410 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces.

    Since 1991 in excess of 70,000 white South Africans have been murdered.

    Why is it that the situation with regard to Israeli aggression can consume entire academic disciplines, fill entire newspapers and provoke demonstrations and boycotts and yet the situation in South Africa is of no interest to anyone. Is all human life equal? Or are some lives worth more than others?”

    • Habbabkuk

      Fully agree and well done, Loony, for having the courage to present those figures.

      Genocide and ethnic cleansing!! Or perhaps not.

      • Anon1

        In answer to the question,

        “Why is it that the situation with regard to Israeli aggression can consume entire academic disciplines…etc.”

        It’s coz it’s the jooz.

        • Paul Barbara

          As a ‘yiddo’, I completely agree with the map. and take note who OAP (I’m also an OAP) , habba, and Anon1 support: the oppressors! Such a thing! Surprise, surprise, surprise!

    • OAP

      Are you really saying 3-4,000 whites are MURDERED EVERY YEAR in SA? Or is it just pure yiddish?

        • Habbabkuk

          Hiss use of “pure yiddish” gives one a clue where he’s coming from.

          No one – but no one – is allowed to be more evil than the Juice.

          On this blog, at least.

      • nevermind

        we do 3500 here on Britain’s roads every year, some are malicious and should be called murder. That said, this is an astonishing figure, but, do we have to see this figure vis a vis the 21.000 black Africans that died during the Apartheid period, with 14.00 of those during the last six years of that ghastly rule?

    • RobG

      Likewise with how many people get murdered by cops in America (which far outnumbers figures cited here for other countries).

      Oh, but it’s the ‘special relationship’, innit, and we can’t talk about our subservient role to the most disgusting and murderous state that has ever existed in history.

      Evict all things America to the planet Mars and I’m sure that the planet Earth will get on just dandy.

      Don’t worry, they won’t be any threat from Mars, because they are so dumb that all they can do is exploit the intelligence of people back on Earth.

      • Loony

        RobG Approximately 1,200 people a year are killed by the police in the US. In addition to the people killed by the police approximately 14,000 people a year are murdered. The population of the US is in excess of 300 million and the population has ready access to firearms.

        Just under 18,000 people a year are murdered in South Africa. South Africa has a total population of around 54 million.

        • RobG

          Loony, you equate figures of people killed just by the police in the US with a total murder rate in South Africa?

          Here’s some of the latest figures (if you don’t like Tyler, he gives an authoritative link)…

          http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/breakdown-us-citizens-killed-cops-2016

          By far, a larger number of white people get shot dead by the police in the US than black people.

          This kinda skews the race war nonsense that certain folks on this board try to promote?

          The USA is not only a police state (just like its poodle, the UK), it’s the most disgustingly immoral and corrupt state that has ever existed on Earth.

          And if it is not dealt with, it will end all life on this Earth.

          • bevin

            “By far, a larger number of white people get shot dead by the police in the US than black people…”
            Which is hardly surprising in view of the fact that African Americans constitute a very small part of the population, while they are far more likely to be the victims of police violence than any other group, with the exception of Native (aboriginal) Americans.

          • Paul Barbara

            The USA has to contend with a ‘certain Middle Esat country for that ‘Gold Medal’,

        • Ba'al Zevul

          Proportionally, St Kitts and Nevis and Jamaica have higher total intentional murder rates. El Salvador manages nearly double. Belize and the US Virgin Islands are also astonishing….money may be safe there, but people aren’t. And if, in 2014, civilian victims in Gaza had counted towards the intentional murder rate, this would have multiplied the published 1.7 per-100,000 capita figure by at least ten. And that was a single murderer – the state. It was described as legal, and our links with Isr**l are a lot closer than to SA. Anyway, there.s such a thing as freedom of choice, and I choose Isr**l.

        • Habbabkuk

          Again, Loony, you have achieved a knock-out judging by the desperate attempts of RobG, Bev and Barbara to divert.

  • Habbabkuk

    Attentive followers of current affairs will have noticed that the two top dogs at the newly created Department for Exiting the EU (Secretary of State Mr Davies) are both Oxford graduates.

    One of them read PPE but, interestingly enough, neither is a Greatsman (or woman).

    Even more interestingly, neither of these two very experienced civil servants appears to have served at the FCO.

    • bevin

      (Secretary of State Mr Davies)
      Any relation to the MP for Major Patrick Wall’s old constituency?

    • RobG

      Gosh, this is jolly exciting, and yet another reason why every single member of MI5, MI6, and all the rest of the loons should be put on trial.

      There’s a revolution going on in France at the moment, that they’ll never tell you about.

      There’s also a revolution going on in the UK, but because you live in such a closed society – which is really no different from North Korea – you are given the DisneyLand version of events.

      I say Mickey Mouse for president.

    • Republicofscotland

      Habb.

      I doubt their credentials will matter, as EU heads have hinted that the dis-United Kingdom will be facing a hard exit. Add to that Boris Johnson prior to becoming Foreign Secretary (May at least has a sense of humour if nothing else) had insulted just about every EU nation during the farcical Tory oneupmanship Brexit campaign.

      I have even read articles that hint that after Brexit is acheived that even EFTA, won’t want the dis-United Kingdom, even though it was a founding member. May has also upset the Chinese over the Hinckley delay, and Obama has urged the dis-United Kingdom to remain in the EU. Putin isn’t a fan either, still I’m sure Boris Johnson’s charming manner will influence many a foreign ambassador. ?

      Oh and and I’ve also read that May, could hatch a plan, not trigger article 50, until 2019, after the French and German elections have been held. Possible hoping for fresh sympathetic faces to emerge.

      • YKMN

        Yes, Norway has suggested that they are pretty happy with the current stable, serious, balance of the European Free Trade association. They have suggested blocking a naïve and tantrum-prone putative ‘new’ EFTA applicant, whoever that might be, reminding TPTB that joining EFTA requires a unanimous vote for the incomer from all extant states.

        EFTA members are currently (joined) Iceland (1970), Liechtenstein(1991), Norway(1960) and Switzerland(1960) .

        Considering that Iceland will soon be led by a friend of Assange/Snowden, Mrs May had better get her application ‘unfrozen’ soon!

        You’re also right about the upcoming elections, one gets the feeling that important side-meetings at Bilderberg/Davos etc are devoted to who might win which upcoming election event, and how that needs to be managed

      • Habbabkuk

        I am flattered that my little point of information should have stimulated such an outpouring, RoS.

        Thank you for your efforts, but I do follow the news as well.

        Beta plus for effort, gamma for usefulness.

  • bevin

    “…Why is it that the situation with regard to Israeli aggression can consume entire academic disciplines, fill entire newspapers and provoke demonstrations and boycotts and yet the situation in South Africa is of no interest to anyone. Is all human life equal? Or are some lives worth more than others?”..”

    You are probably too young to recall this, Anon, but for many years the matter of Israeli aggression passed relatively unnoticed in a Britain in which every other person seemed to wear an Anti Apartheid badge.
    At the time, partisans of the South African Nationalist regime, the most vociferous of whom had been initiated into the neo-nazi connections of the Verwoerds of this world, tended to point to Israel and ask why nobody seemed to care about Palestinian rights, the way they did about the treatment of the ‘Bantu’ and Zulus, not to mention the coloured and Asian communities.

    At the same time that they were appealing to anti-semites in the west, however, the Nationalists were secretly co-operating with Israel, testing nuclear weapons, sharing information on counter insurgency. And both Israel and the original Apartheid state could count on the support of Tories in Britain and racists in the USA. Favours that they returned by attacking Angola and Mozambique in the hope of installing imperialist puppet regimes in place off the departed Portuguese.

    That was before the Nationalists in Pretoria decided to negotiate a peace deal with the ANC, a deal which is, as Loony notes, not working very well and has produced a society in which there is widespread crime and little social harmony. And thousands of murders every year.

    What this tells us is that, as the old slogan has it, there will be no peace before there is justice-and the compromise in South Africa provides nothing in the way of justice for the great mass of South Africans, whose land remains stolen and whose fate it is to be proletarians caught between the millstones of corrupt leaders, including trade unionists in the pockets of corporations, and a capitalist system which exists for no other purpose than to exploit their labour and deplete their resources.

    The time will surely come when Israel, already sponsoring in Abu Mazen a corrupt Palestinian in the Quisling school of patriotism, will seek more enduring compromises with the Palestinians, (no doubt the jails in Israel are full of potential Mandelas) and, in the resulting half way house between Apartheid and Jim Crow, it is very likely that there will be a different pattern of murders from the current one in which, for every settler killed something in the order of fifty Palestinians are murdered. Which is pretty well what happened in South Africa until the guerrillas got themselves organised and found bases in the newly liberated Portuguese colonies.

    Those who sincerely lament the murders in South Africa, Israel and the USA understand that without Justice there will be no Peace. And urge all involved to press those with power to work for justice, social, economic, political and in the courts of law.

    • Brianfujisan

      well said Bevin… Israel should in the Hauge, And the U.s uk, Ect… Aiding Genocide…

      • Habbabkuk

        Fujisan

        Do keep up – slightly wiser commenters than you on here have ceased talking about Israeli “genocide” since that tired old trope was demolished by myself and others.

        • George

          Hab: “Do keep up – slightly wiser commenters than you on here have ceased talking about Israeli “genocide” since that tired old trope was demolished by myself and others.”

          Moshe Dayan: “We came to a region of land that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. … Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either.”

          Ariel Sharon: “We’ll make a pastrami sandwich out of them. We’ll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in twenty-five years’ time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart.”

          Nope. No genocide here!

          • Loony

            George – What is your point? Sure the Israeli state is committing many crimes against Palestinians. Surely everyone knows this. There are repeated efforts to pass UN resolutions against the actions of Israel and the great and the good are constantly seeking an resolution to the issue.

            Solutions are mostly frustrated by the US whose policies allow Israel to adopt an intransigent posture.Such a policy was formulated by Kissinger and is known as “rejectionism” Entire books have been written about it.

            Why is the situation regarding Israel of such interest whilst the situation in Southern Africa is of zero interest?

          • George

            The point Loony is that Hab has described Israeli violence against Palestinians as a “tired old trope” which has been “demolished”. I am not denying atrocities in South Africa. Why does Hab deny them in the Middle East?

        • George

          Hab: “I don’t especially care if you trot it out on this blog ….”

          Then let him trot it out on this blog and go away.

    • Loony

      bevin – I have already explained why it is wholly false to claim that land in South Africa has been stolen from anyone. Clearly there can be no justice if attempts are made to provide justice against a wholly false premise.

      There is an issue with the unequal distribution of land and resources – but this is not an issue confined to South Africa.

      • Node

        “…Why is it that the situation with regard to Israeli aggression can consume entire academic disciplines, fill entire newspapers and provoke demonstrations and boycotts and yet the situation in South Africa is of no interest to anyone. Is all human life equal? Or are some lives worth more than others?”..”

        The difference is that South Africans are killing each other while Israelis are killing Palestinians.

        The first is a societal problem, the second is genocide.

        • Habbabkuk

          You don’t get it, do you.

          One set of figures produced by Loony showed the number of white SA farmers killed by blacks since 1990.

          If you think that Israelis have committed genocide by killing a far smaller number of Palestinians then you would have to admit that black South Africans are committing genocide against white South Africans, wouldn’t you?

        • Loony

          Is what you say true, or is what you say an example of ignorance fueled by the fact that you really don;t care and can’t be bothered to understand what is occurring in Southern Africa.

          There is an argument that the killing of white people in South Africa is just South Africans killing each other. However I do not believe that the London Tube bombings are ordinarily described as the English killing each other.

          Do South Africans confine themselves to killing each other? Is it possible that Zulu King Goodwill Zwelithini may know more than you on this subject. Here is a man that makes a speech comparing immigrants to fleas and lice and oh look you have a wave of xenophobic killings. You can read more here

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/26/south-africa-xenophobic-attacks_n_7119816.html

          President Zuma decides to entertain his audience with a rendition of a catchy little number entitled “Kill the Boer” Guess what happens next.

          But it is all OK because black South Africans suffered under Apartheid and so some allowance must be made. Well the British suffered during World War 1 and World War 2. Can you imagine what would happen if Theresa May took to the stage and entertained everyone with a rendition of a song entitled “Kill the German”

          • Node

            Is what you say true, or is what you say an example of ignorance fueled by the fact that you really don;t care and can’t be bothered to understand what is occurring in Southern Africa.

            Pointless bluster.

            There is an argument that the killing of white people in South Africa is just South Africans killing each other.

            Yes, that’s the argument I’m making. Tragic but something that S. Africa has to sort out for itself. International laws are not being broken. Unlike Israel’s relentless slaughter of Palestinians.

          • Loony

            The point that I am making that is entirely free of bluster is that that there is a growing problem with xenophobic violence in South Africa. That is where black South Africans attack and (often) kill immigrants from other parts of Africa.

            Therefore if South African nationals kill nationals of some other country then that cannot be described as South Africans killing each other. Can it really be that this needs explaining to you, or is the answer more likely that you just don’t care,

          • Node

            The point that I am making that is entirely free of bluster is that that there is a growing problem with xenophobic violence in South Africa. That is where black South Africans attack and (often) kill immigrants from other parts of Africa. Therefore if South African nationals kill nationals of some other country then that cannot be described as South Africans killing each other.

            What would you like the international community to do about it?

            Can it really be that this needs explaining to you, or is the answer more likely that you just don’t care,

            Pointless bluster

          • Habbabkuk

            Node

            Would you characterise what most people (including the UN) called the genocides in Ruanda and Burundi as just Ruandans and Burundis killed one another?

            There is no point you calling Loony’s relentless marshalling of facts and argument as “bluster”.

            You must learn to control your anti-Israel longings when posting (ostensibly) about other matters.

      • Alan

        I noticed today this article in The Indie:

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/drought-lesotho-water-exported-south-africa-katse-dam-food-insecurity-a7189211.html

        Why is Bevin not protesting about this injustice being carried out by South Africa against Lesotho? Surely “stealing” water is as bad as “stealing” land?

        Lesotho is experiencing food insecurity as a result of drought despite being the site of the second largest dam in Africa, because water is being exported to its neighbour South Africa.

        An estimated 680,000 people — more than a quarter of the total population – are in need of emergency food and assistance, according to the World Food Programme (WFP).

      • Node

        Both are dreadful situations. However the first is an internal affair, the second is the responsibility of the international community.

        • Loony

          Lesotho and South Africa are separate countries and both are members of the UN and other international organizations in their own right. Given this fact how can relations as between South Africa and Lesotho be described as an “internal affair”?

      • bevin

        “I have already explained why it is wholly false to claim that land in South Africa has been stolen from anyone. ”
        I must have missed that. Please repeat your argument and I will examine it fairly.

        • Loony

          As per your request – here it is again

          bevin -There were no settled indigenous communities in South Africa in 1652 (the time of arrival of the first white settlers). Therefore the land could not have been stolen from anyone as there was no-one on the land to steal it from.

          The local population was largely comprised of a san aboriginal population. There was discord as between the san and the Khoi – a more aggressive people moving south. There is no more reason to assert that white people stole the land than there is to assert that the Khoi were in the process of stealing the land when they were frustrated by more technologically advanced white settlers.

          The first settlers elected not to enslave local aboriginal populations and instead imported slaves from elsewhere to work the land. Thus it is likely that many of the people working the land today are the descendants of slaves. While many crimes were committed against slaves one of them could not have been stealing their land in South Africa when they themselves were forcibly imported into South Africa.

          Like South Africa there were no settled farming communities in Zimbabwe prior to colonization. Therefore the entire agricultural industry was developed in conjunction with, and as a consequence of, colonization. British colonial policy caused periodic famines in India (and as you so relentlessly remind people) Ireland. It did not do so in Southern Africa. It therefore follows that during the colonial period all people both colonizers and colonized had access to food on a regular basis. This fact demonstrates that neither the Irish famine or the periodic Indian famines have any relevance to the situation in southern Africa.

          Imperial rule did distort society – and distort it in complex ways, and in ways that cannot be unwound. Simplistic and factually inaccurate slogans about stolen land are unlikely to lead to a viable long term solution.

          Colonialism was not all bad – it lifted many people out of subsistence living, provided increased literacy, and provided food for all. Food shortages in Zimbabwe is a post colonial phenomena. If you speak to many ordinary people throughout Southern Africa they will quite happily tell you that in comparison to the Chinese the British were quite benign. An intelligent person would listen more to these people and less to the people that are trying to sell all encompassing theories to explain everything – and hey if the facts don’t fit the theory just change the facts.

          • Ba'al Zevul

            I am asking myself why an apologist for Isr**l would be so sympathetic to colonialism. The answer to that is obvious, isn’t it? But perhaps it’s the wrong question, even so. The underlying suggestion seems to be that everything was fine under apartheid. Now, Isr**l has de facto apartheid in place. It is the J*wish state – only J*wish people have the right to settle there, and the Palestinian community in the illegally occupied West Bank has effectively been broken up into something smaller than the bantustans for which SA was once notorious. But the denial that apartheid exists continues – apart from a few revealing remarks by its instigators. To suggest that Isr**l is an apartheid state is virtually certain to attract the tag of antisemitism.

            So it’s not something Isr**l is particularly proud of. And the reason for that is, international opinion. Which was responsible, as much as anything else, for the ending of apartheid in SA. The remedy is obviously to rehabilitate apartheid. Things weren’t so bad under apartheid in SA, runs the argument, and look at it now. And please compare the criminality of SA with the lovely picture our propagandists will paint for you of the very low risk to white, or whitish people, in our own fair land.(Never mind the others.)

            Sooner or later, apartheid will cease to be quite such a dirty word, we can write it into our legal framework as a done deal, rather than an informal understanding with the IDF and the settlers, and that will be the end of Palestinian resistance.

            We need only look back to the time when SA’s then apartheid regime collaborated enthusiastically with Israel in the development of an illegal atomic bomb – Israel’s first – to recognise an element of nostalgia in this. The choice of SA as a bete noir to set alongside the shining example of Isr**l isn’t accidental. Whatever its travails, Jamaica, with an even higher murder rate today, didn’t have apartheid.

          • Loony

            Ba’al – You is missing the point amigo.

            Apartheid was wrong and it has ended. It ended, as you note, in part due to international pressure.

            The situation now is in many respects worse – certainly for white people,and certainly for the economy. The situation for the vast bulk of the population is largely unchanged but veering toward moderately worse when the explosion in violence is factored in. It is massively better for a small black elite.

            So the question is why there was so much international pressure against apartheid and why are these same people do not seek to alleviate the situation today. We can conclude from this that whatever the motivations of anti apartheid protesters their main motivation was not concern for the people.

            Their motivations were more likely ideological and now that they won their ideological war the people they claimed to care about are now free to drown in a sea of blood – No one cares, and this most especially applies to the people that claimed to care. Their amoral devotion to ideology is laid bare for all to see – but no one will see because recognizing the truth is just oh so repellent.

            These same amoral ideological zealots have now turned their attention to Israel – a situation that is also wrong and which must be rectified. However Israel has the example of the anti apartheid crowd to inform them of the likely motivations of anti Israel protesters.

            So what can we conclude? Basically that the most vociferous critics of Israel serve the primary purpose of re-enforcing the determination of the Israeli state. If anyone was concerned with morality then they may review their actions and commitments. That they are not concerned with morality is evidenced by the ready resort to smear and their absolute refusal to even contemplate the fact that they are conflating morality with ego.

  • Habbabkuk

    August 14, 2016 at 12:54

    Just for amusement, I reproduce hereafter a comment posted in response to an article on Brexit/other possible EU exits in the online publication “The Conversation”.

    Although “The Conversation” is apparently American, this commenter claims to be British.

    I reproduce his comment with the thought that with that sort of tone, content and style he would probably become bosom buddies with a couple of the zanier regular commenters on here ?

    “Matthew Bedford

    logged in via Google

    yet another article that has missed the point of brexit, or why even the majority of English wanted to leave, the cold hard truth is the people coming into are modern democracy are from much less advanced societies, the very basics we brits enjoy never happened, prime example is women’s rights, basically England has been importing misogynist’s and and rapist, and for the least represented it has been a nightmare, infact its been completely swept under the carpet, the tip of the ice berg came to light , when the old ham, rochdale, and bradford, child rape scandal finally came out of the bag , not a little due to the Over kill PC initiative finally lost some power , further more we have had several decades of frankly unwise political rule that has ruined the world and England financially, things are so bad here we are sitting on a mental health time bomb , and in a twist of fate , the 80 killed in france neatly demonstrated the fact to Europe as well, globalisation has caused more suffering murder and rape, only further embedded this sickness within modern societies, people are not well they have been bullied and brutalized by there own governments seemingly being humanitarian but not actually taking into account consequences and frankly they are sick of it, or did they? the easiest way to control a population is to brutalize them and break their will, so there you have it, to the English are own government is the enemy , starting wars, importing inhumanity, giving the countries assets that we the english tax payer payed for to unscrupulous corporations, saying one thing while meaning another lies lies lies , its depressing but its the truth , politics is a game for sociopaths and psychopaths, and that is that.”

    • Alan

      Is “The Conversation” aimed at your age group Habba, after all, it appears to have been written by somebody of the age of eight? I mean,words like “ice berg”, “old ham”, “rochdale”, and “bradford” ??? As for”this commenter claims to be British”, WTF? Living in America seems to have done this person no good at all

      • Habbabkuk

        No idea, Alan, but I just thought a few of the regulars (both old and “new”) on here might find joy in the similarities of toe, content and style.

      • Habbabkuk

        Anyway, what makes you think the author of that “comment” – a Mr Bedford – doesn’t live in the UK?

        After all, Mr “Lysias” lives in the USA – doesn’t he? 🙂 and often posts on this UK website.

      • Habbabkuk

        KOWN

        It is not generally known that the BBC cloned the original Alf Garnett.

        The experiment was successful and several of the clones have survived to post frequently on here.

  • Loony

    bevin writes “…African Americans constitute a very small part of the population, while they are far more likely to be the victims of police violence than any other group, with the exception of Native (aboriginal) Americans.”

    African American constitute 12.2% of the US population and in total number about 38 million. Describing this demographic as “a very small part of the population” would appear disingenious.

    There is an issue with policing in the US and in 2015 some 1,140 people were killed by the police. By comparison in the UK 3 people were killed by the police in 2015. This disparity in numbers of people killed by the police is in part explicable by different social mores regarding gun ownership. In 2015 42 US Police Officers were shot and killed whilst no British police officers were shot and killed

    Rates per million of the ethnic origin of people killed by the police in the US in 2015 are: White 2.92, Black 7.2, Hispanic 3.5, Asian 1.34 and Native American 3.4.

    Thus it is false to claim (as bevin does) that Native Americans have a higher chance of being killed by the police than African Americans have of being killed by the police..

    If people in the US were being killed by the police as a consequence of racism in the police then why is the rate for Asians less than half the rate for whites?

    Perhaps the explanation lies in the propensity for various ethnic groups to commit crime. So, in 2012 38% of the US population were white adult males and this group accounted for 4,582 murders. In the same year 6.6% of the population were African American adult males and this group accounted for 5,531 murders.

    Between 1980 and 2008 African Americans committed 52% of all homicides.

    Perhaps US police kill more African Americans for the simple reason that African Americans pose a greater danger to the police than that posed by other ethnic groups.

    But hey who needs facts when you have a theory capable of operating entirely independently of facts.

      • Loony

        The answer to your question is No.

        Your question itself is inane.

        The only 2 nuclear bombs to have ever been fired in anger were fired against Asian people, so obviously white people have no problem with killing Asian people. The fact that so few Asians are killed by the police in the US strongly militates against racism constituting the answer to US police “target selection”

        • Republicofscotland

          Looney.

          Asian people for that matter have no problems with killing other Asian people without the help of the white man, Tibet, and Nanking spring to mind.

      • Old Mark

        Nevermind- your definition of racism, you’ll be pleased to hear, coincides with that of Belgium’s Cour de Cassation in its ruling in 2003 that the Vlams Belaang was a racist party. Included in the documents submitted by the ‘anti-racist’ organisation seeking this judgement were quotations in VB party literature from official crime statistics, the dissemination of which made professional anti racists uncomfortable.

        As Loony says ‘who needs facts when you have a theory capable of operating entirely independently of facts.’

    • bevin

      Your arguments are familiar rationalisations of racist behaviour. The reality of centuries of racism cannot be wished away by logic chopping washed down by a few figures.

      The governing authorities in the United States were carrying out genocidal massacres before they threw off British rule. Indeed, and this is the case for both South Africa and Southern Rhodesia too, one of the reasons why they got rid of the British was because they distrusted Parliament’s attitudes towards slavery and genocides. (The Royal Proclamation of 1763 being an important milestone in the road to “liberty”.) The police forces themselves originated in the slave patrols of the southern states and the militias designed to drive off “indians” elsewhere.
      Killing Blacks is hardwired into the US Policeman’s soul. Read the recent report from the DoJ into the Baltimore Police Department, which is far from being one of the worst. Read what has been happening in Chicago- The Guardian has had some good reports.
      This violence, whose cultural roots lie in nothing more mysterious than a history of violence in race relations (much easier in a country where the persecuted minority are only about one in ten of the population), has very little to do with patterns of gun ownership. Indeed the contrary is the case.
      As to the propensity, alleged by you, of blacks to violent crime: the black population, for centuries enslaved and for a century more ruled by Klan like supremacists of the Democratic Party, is largely dispossessed. The average wealth of black families is insignificant in comparison with other communities (again native Americans excluded). Perhaps you think it is because they are not hard workers? In which case you misunderstand the institution of slavery.
      The truth is that poor people, regardless of race, are often forced towards criminality. And where they have been dispossessed, enslaved, proletarianised and disenfranchised, nothing that they do, by way of seeking to furnish themselves and their dependents can be called criminal.
      Those you accuse of crimes are the victims of the worst crimes ever committed. And that goes for South Africa too.

      • Loony

        Logic does not appear your strong point.

        The governing authorities of the United States did not carry out any genocidal massacres in South Africa or Southern Rhodesia. Perhaps this is not what you meant to say, but it is what you said.

        If killing blacks is “hardwired into the US Policeman’s soul” then why is it that black police officers constitute an aggregate 12% of US police officers. Why does the US police kill a higher percentage of white people than Asian people?

        I have not alleged anything as to the propensity of blacks to commit violent crimes. I have merely quoted official US figures regarding murder rates.

        For all your anti racist protestations it is you that meets the required racist threshold. You write “nothing that they do, by way of seeking to furnish themselves and their dependents can be called criminal” In the US most black people that are murdered are murdered by other black people. According to your logic no crime has been committed. So what do you propose saying to the families of black people murdered by other black people? Sorry, no crime here. Do you really think telling people that they have not been the victim of a crime due solely and exclusively to the skin color of the perpetrator is anything other than racist in the extreme.

        Imagine what would happen if you told any group in society that for whatever reason nothing they did would not qualify as criminal behavior. Let us suppose that you told Millwall supporters that because their team had not performed well then they could engage in any action they wanted but nothing that they did would be considered criminal. What do you think would happen?

        • bevin

          “The governing authorities of the United States did not carry out any genocidal massacres in South Africa or Southern Rhodesia. Perhaps this is not what you meant to say, but it is what you said.”
          I said nothing of the sort.

          “If killing blacks is “hardwired into the US Policeman’s soul” then why is it that black police officers constitute an aggregate 12% of US police officers.”
          There is nothing improbable about this, unfortunately. Most of those who killed Indians for the Raj were themselves Indian.

          “Why does the US police kill a higher percentage of white people than Asian people?”
          Probably because Asians in the US tend to be under represented where the police are most violent.

          ” In the US most black people that are murdered are murdered by other black people. According to your logic no crime has been committed.”
          There is nothing surprising about the fact that most murders are carried out either by family members or neighbours. Black people tend to live in ghettos so their neighbours tend to be black.

          You deliberately miss the point about the right of a starving man to ‘steal’ in order to feed himself or dependents. This is not connected with Milwall FC so far as I can see.

          The problem is that you are rehashing standard racist arguments to justify the killing of black Americans by the Police. Fair enough, but very few Americans, and none who are honest, would dispute the fact that police forces pursue racist policies and always have done. If you choose to believe otherwise, nothing that I can say will stop you from doing so.

          My interest is simply in your use of these theories to justify the violence of the Israeli state and to apologise, after the event, for Apartheid in Africa. Actually that’s wrong: ‘interest’ is too strong a word. Racism is very boring.

          • Loony

            bevin – aint nobody in the west starving, so there is no need for them to steal to feed themselves. Are you not aware of the EBT program?

            I believe in the rule of law, and of equality for all before the law and that as Bob Dylan opined that the “ladder of law should have no top and no bottom”

            To suggest that some people, as you do, should have different standards applied to them, based on the color of their skin is the very definition of racist.

            For your information a lot of Asians who immigrate to the US start out life in the same ghettos that black people live in. Asians are disproportionate victims of the crimes of their neighbors, but strangely do not get shot by the police.

            There is absolutely nothing I have said that seeks to justify the violence of the Israeli state. Indeed I could not as the Israeli state is itself lawless (just a different type of lawlessness to that favored by you) I have merely made a few preliminary stabs at seeking to explain it. You may as well argue that a psychiatrist treating Peter Sutcliffe is justifying the serial killing of women.

            Equally I have not apologized for Apartheid. Indeed I could not as by definition apartheid did not provide equal protection to all under the law – (again it was a discriminatory legal system although different to the type of discrimination favored by you) I have merely noted that it t is at least arguable that the situation for millions of people in South Africa today is broadly the same or worse than their situation under apartheid.

            I realize that facts conflict with your theory and so the facts need to be changed. If the facts cannot be changed then the person presenting the facts must be either mentally defective or unspeakably evil.

            It must be so hard to forsake your god given ability to think freely in order to worship a theory.

    • nevermind

      Thanks for that Dude Swheate, a point well made to Craig.

      One of my relatives has degenerative MS and had to listen to accusations on how she was able to walk up the stairs to the office, and much more, when she was denied her disability benefit and had to appear at an interview.

      She has a strict diet as not to put on too much weight, she also works. Her partner, Bsc in Physiology, accompanied her to the interview and when she was asked to strip search, he calmly asked whether the person had any medical qualifications to which the reply was ‘i’m a benefit assistance technician’.

      She has had all her benefits withdrawn and has now appealed against the decision.

      my point being that the austerity program is still in full flow, that tax evasion is still in full flow, and that tax avoidance as by this article is still in full flow.
      Add to that, the Brexit outfall is beginning to ruffle minds as it is now becoming clear that our membership in the WTO will take years of wait and debate.
      Society is on a downward trajectory, however much cash the Tory’s offer to keep farmers in subsidies.

      • Dude Swheatie of the Kilburn Unemployed

        Hi, Nevermind

        I wish your relative every success for the tribunal, and point out that Kilburn Unemployed Workers Group caseworkers have been greatly assisted by the guides produced by Benefits and Work Publishing Ltd, as I was when I had my first tribunal. The charge per annum for individuals in £19.95, for groups closer to £100.

        That was in addition to my tribunal support from a local charity years before I met up with Kilburn Unemployed. A fundamental reason that I had been zero-pointed before the tribunal panel put me into the Support Group was that I did not properly understand the ESA50 form that was designed by Atos. Despite Atos’ impaired reputation from ESA-related suicides, they have a leading role in not only Personal Independence Payments assessments, but also the ‘delivery’ of Universal Credit as principal subcontractor.

        An issue to beware of is that even after winning the tribunal, the claimant is often recalled for reassessment. Being called for reassessment can be very bad for one’s physical and mental health. After being called up for reassessment about three times, I got a verbal statement from the Atos doctor who appeared quite nice, that he was going to recommend that I next be recalled for interview no less than two years hence, yet that did not stop me receiving a recall the following year! With the aid of a local charity who cited the ESA regulations 29 and 35, and also copied my local MP and [the late] Michael Meacher MP into the correspondence. I have not been troubled with the challenge of reassessment since.

        I should also add that the golden rule for Kilburn Unemployed Workers Group members is: “Never attend anywhere official alone.”

        • nevermind

          Thanks for that Dude, I have passed the sites on to them and will see what comes of it.
          wishing you all the best and keep on going, you are doing a massive job.

        • Phil the ex-frog

          Nice. Not sure how old you are mate but maybe you remember the 1980s when there was a network of Unemployed Worker Centres funded by LAs & Trade Council. As well as ft caseworkers (I was volunteer treasurer) we could even afford the occasional outing to the seaside. Another age.

          Great to see it still ongoing. Just fantastic. I suspect it’s a lot more hard work these days. Keep up the much needed work.

          • Dude Swheatie of the Kilburn Unemployed

            Hi, Phil the ex-frog

            In answer to your questions, I’m 62 going on for 63. I left Upper Sixth Year in 1972 and went into 5 years seamless salaried but unfulfilling waged employment in which I was verbally bullied by co-workers on a regular basis until I quit on health grounds. Between November 1977 and the time I first claimed ESA in early 2009, the sum total of my waged employment amounted to 19 months, 11 of which were so part-time that I submitted fortnightly earnings forms to get my Jsa topped up.

            My big problem regarding the 1980s groups you refer to was that I was too focused on getting something from what pitiful training opportunities there were as well as the much more fun stuff that was available via Inner London Education Authority.

            Those who are interested in self-help claimants groups of benefit claimants as a proactive force may be interested in the online document Setting up a claimants’ self-help group.

            You can also check out https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=“kilburn+unemployed”

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Hello Dude

            That sounds like a rough time of it mate. Bullying at the work place can be a night mare. Really devastating. Looking at the web site and youtube it looks like you are doing some great work now.

            Phil

  • michael norton

    Ukip’s leadership contest has been thrown into fresh controversy as a leaked email reveals that the party was threatened with legal action by two of the candidates if frontrunner Steven Woolfe were allowed to stand.

    Woolfe, the MEP for North West England, was ruled ineligible by the party’s governing body after his application to run arrived 17 minutes after the deadline for nominations.

    It has now emerged that two of his rival candidates had warned behind the scenes that they were willing to sue the party if Woolfe were given any leeway. The revelation has prompted claims that he was the victim of a deal “behind closed doors”.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/13/woolfes-rivals-threatened-to-sue-ukip

    Smacks of Labour Party politics?

    • Mick McNulty

      It makes me think they’re trying to put in place a one-party state that has the appearance of opposition. How ironic, then, that the man who said the best way to control the opposition is to become the opposition was Lenin. Doesn’t this make THEM Leninists?

  • George

    Curiouser and curiouser. On following a link above given by Loony – namely this one:

    https://americanfreepress.net/70000-whites-murdered-in-modern-south-africa-obamas-african-legacy/

    I read:

    “Claudia Bryan is a South African activist living in London. Her grandmother owned a bakery in South Africa. One day six blacks entered the bakery and gang-raped her. They then tried to shoot her. The gun jammed. In anger they gang raped her again and the 70-something woman died. Robbery was not the motive.”

    On googling “Claudia Bryan” I find (via https://ukipinformer.wordpress.com/tag/claudia-bryan/) that that she is a

    “South African adult model” also known as Claudia Dalgleish and that she “was once one of Nick Griffin’s close confidantes and was also the partner of London BNP Organiser, pornographer and supplier of date-rape drugs, Steve Squire.”

    Some more of her colourful career can be seen here:

    http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/former-bnp-attack-dog-goes-up-in-the-world-3925

    where we read:

    “To say the least, Dalgleish has had an interesting time of it since, going on to rub shoulders with the English Democrats and even the Traditional Britain Group where she was very popular.

    Dalgleish resurfaced as Claudia Bryan soon after in a campaign for (white) South African farmers who she says are victim of a racist genocide by the black goverment in South Africa. She also claims that Nelson Mandela was a racist..”

    Not a character I feel to be trustworthy. Of course this doesn’t necessarily invalidate Loony’s link. But I wonder….

    • Loony

      George – Pray tell, could there be some reason that you refer to a link I provided but somehow omit to mention the caveat I also provided. Just in case it slipped your mind or you somehow missed it I will repeat it for you:

      “If you don’t like this source you can look up your own – there are plenty available.”

      Of course you omission of these words doesn’t necessarily invalidate your point. But I wonder…

      • George

        What intrigues me Loony is that, given the supposed plethora of sources you could have chosen from, why pick up on an article by one Paul Fromm who is described thus on Wiki:

        “Frederick Paul Fromm (born January 3, 1949), known as Paul Fromm, is a Canadian white nationalist racialist and perennial candidate based in Mississauga, Ontario. He has hosted a radio show on the Stormfront web site and has ties to former Ku Klux Klan members David Duke, Don Black, and Mark Martin (a white supremacist rally organizer in Covington, Ohio and former Marine.)”

        Later we read:

        “In the 1990s, Fromm spoke at several Heritage Front events, including a celebration of Adolf Hitler’s birthday.”

        Of course you may not have know this but I was suspicious from the incendiary quality of a passage from your link such as:

        “But you will not hear about this in the Western media, which fawns over the black terrorists who now run the once-prosperous country.”

        Is this an example of the kind of writers (and the kind of rhetoric) you gravitate towards?

        • Loony

          Seemingly you are easily intrigued.

          I recall Noam Chomsky making a point – and he quoted Platts as the source information for his argument. Do you think that makes Noam Chomsky an oil trader or that Noam Chomsky is in the pay of Exxon Mobil?

  • George

    More on the Loony link to American Free Press. From Wikipedia:

    “The American Free Press is a weekly newspaper published in the United States.

    The newspaper’s direct ancestor was the publication The Spotlight, which ceased publication in 2001 when its parent organization, Liberty Lobby, was forced into bankruptcy. Like The Spotlight and Liberty Lobby, Willis Carto, one of America’s most influential political racial theorists known for his promotion of antisemitic conspiracy theories and Holocaust denial, was one of its founders.”

  • Republicofscotland

    So Scotland Yard is to set up a “thought police unit” to hunt down posters of what THEY THINK, is inappropriate posts on the web beginning with Twitter.

    Looks like the establishment could be upping its game, to prevent free speech, by deeming it inappropriate.

    I’m sure the establishment boys and girls in here, will say it’s a step in the right direction.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3739348/Scotland-Yard-ploughs-2million-new-thought-police-unit-snoop-web-users-hunt-trolls.html

    • YKMN

      This new hi-tech police unit is tasked to simply identify the source of the ‘illegal’ internet trolling, and pass the physical address details to the relevant local plod for action:

      Following years on the internet & Craig’s blog, it is obvious that the source of much UK Internet noise/abuse
      Such as this :

      “Effects” campaigns that are broadly divided into two categories: cyber attacks and propaganda operations. The propaganda campaigns use deception, mass messaging and “pushing stories” via Twitter, Flickr, Facebook and YouTube. [they]also use “false flag” operations, in which British agents carry out online actions that are designed to look like they were performed by one of [their] adversaries. (All for the greater good!)

      is based at Priors Road, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire GL52 5BX

      and if you want their actual desk locations they are here
      https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1379028/gchq-mobile-networks-in-my-noc-world.pdf
      or http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/edward-snowden-interview/exclusive-snowden-docs-show-british-spies-used-sex-dirty-tricks-n23091

      tho’ one minor problem that the high-tech plod will face (or perhaps ignore) is that anti-democratic groups such as jtrig have “Un-attributable internet” connections, or even worse – they are able to spoof anyone’s email or Twitter account – they even wrote this annoying post!

  • michael norton

    Despicable pasty-faced bastard!
    Farage BLASTS Osborne in Brexit slapdown
    The former Ukip leader also blasted Chicken Boy George as “despicable” and a “weasel” and said he hoped Mr Osborne is never seen in public again.

    Ms Osborne campaigned for Britain to Remain in this summer’s in-out European Union referendum and was a main orchestrator of Project Fear’s economic scaremongering.

    Now, with Britain experiencing a Brexit boost with new investment opportunities and surging financial indexes, Mr Farage has given Mr Osborne both barrels.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/699835/nigel-farage-pasty-faced-george-osborne-brexit

    • michael norton

      I did find Chicken Boy George a despicable self serving liar.
      Islamaphobic Theresa may did right in booting him out.
      Let’s hope we never hear from the odious toad again.

  • Republicofscotland

    “American aid to Israel is illegal under a decades-old law that prohibits aid to nuclear powers that have not signed the international Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), according to a lawsuit filed in federal court in Washington, DC.”

    “The lawsuit, filed this week by Grant Smith, the director of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy, comes as the US and Israel have closed many of the gaps in negotiations over a new 10-year military aid package worth tens of billions of dollars.”

    “Discussing the lawsuit in an interview with Court House News, Smith said the US has provided Israel an estimated $234 billion in foreign assistance since Congress passed the International Security Assistance and Arms Export Control Act in 1976, which bans aid to non-signatories of the NPT that posses nuclear weapons.”

    http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/08/13/479869/US-aid-Israel-illegal-

    Here’s hoping it is successful, and the American public stop financing the oppressive military state of Israel.

  • Loony

    …and so what do we have for entertainment?

    We have a number of people expressing concern over Israeli policies and the effects of those policies on the Palestinian community. In many cases these same people appear either ignorant of or entirely disinterested in the situation in Southern Africa. The most extreme among you argue the opposite of the facts. Sadly this applies to the blog host who has erroneously claimed that agricultural production in Zimbabwe is rising, when it is in fact falling.

    There were strong parallels as between the situation in Israel and the Apartheid regime in South Africa – and the two regimes collaborated in many areas. Almost all people who found apartheid repugnant also find the situation regarding Israel repugnant.

    Apartheid has been swept away and white privilege in Zimbabwe is long gone. Thus we now have a model in southern Africa that is broadly acceptable to western liberals. There is more to be done in terms of wealth distribution in South Africa but everything is on the right track. Of course there is no intention of lifting millions of people out of township living. Rather the idea is to take wealth from white elites and give it to black elites.

    The murder rate, the inability of one of Africa’s richest country’s to feed itself, the atrophying of infrastructure, the calls for ever more xenophobic violence, the hyperinflation, and the abject poverty of the masses is of no interest to anyone, for the battle has been won, We now have a just system of government – why the President loves his people so much that he lets them into the secret that taking a shower is an effective way to ward of HIV infection.

    No-one wants to know because no-one cares. The battle has been won and that is all that is important, so back to Israel.

    I guess most Israeli’s want to live in peace and do not dream of persecuting Palestinians or of endless territorial expansion. I guess they are also afraid of what their lives would look like in the event of a just settlement – would they be subject to revenge attacks? Would their standard of living plummet?, would their culture come under threat? The kind of things that would concern anyone. Should they show any degree of flexibility or compromise then what kind of guarantees could they obtain from the international community?

    When they look at how the world has walked away from Southern Africa and how western liberals quietly snicker at every dead Boer whilst resolutely refusing to acknowledge the reality on the ground then Israeli’s probably make their own judgement about the value of the opinions of western liberals.

    The more you bleat about Israel whilst contemporaneously ignoring southern Africa then the more resolute you will likely make Israel. Your own prejudices are at least in part responsible for the perpetuation of the very system you feign to despise.

    Please feel free to respond with a torrent of ad-hominem abuse or any other irrelevances you can dream up. It is very important that you maintain your moral purity, please do not let facts pollute this moral purity, The fact that it is your views and your attitudes that serve to strengthen the intransigence of Israel is absolutely NOT your fault or your responsibility. You can in no way be expected to be responsible for your own views and opinions.

      • nevermind

        he does not Node, that would deprive him of another argument. This is just his understanding of ‘entertainment’.

        @ George, thanks for debunking the NF/BNP shadows on this site

        • George

          Wading through Loony’s rant (and bearing in mind the writers he favours), it would seem that his solution for South Africa would be to restore white privilege. I doubt if he’s actually going to say this – although it would be such a relief to hear him say it. In the meantime, he’s saying “Leave Israel alone!” It may indeed be the case that “most Israeli’s (sic) want to live in peace and do not dream of persecuting Palestinians or of endless territorial expansion.” But tough luck, because that’s what they’re going to get anyway! So for entertainment we can all sit back and watch that Palestinian plot dry up completely.

    • Republicofscotland

      Looney.

      There’s a marked diffence between former and present events in SA, and in Palestine, the main one being that no government dares oppose the US, who strongly back Israel. The Palestinian people are in a hopeless situation.

      The ANC and Jacob Zuma, who has had allegations of corruption aimed at him, haven’t really pushed SA that far forward though SA’s constitutional Bill of Rights which says;

      ” Provides extensive guarantees, including equality before the law and prohibitions against discrimination; the right to life, privacy, property, and freedom and security of the person; prohibition against slavery and forced labour; and freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and association. The legal rights of criminal suspects also are enumerated.”

      “It also includes wide guarantees of access of food, water, education, health care, and social security. The constitution provides for an independent and impartial judiciary, and, in practice, these provisions are respected.”

      A step in the right direction, can we say for sure that Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza, or East Jerusalem have the same protection? I think not. As for Palestinians having enough food or water, can we say they have? We they are constantly being forced from their land to make way for illegal settlements.

      Unfortunately there will always be racially motivated murders in SA, the white man has left an indelible mark, (not a good one) that will linger for generations to come, which will often manifest itself in the form of murder.

      You are trying to compare apples with oranges Looney, when it comes to SA and Palestine.

      As for Zimbabwe look at it this way Mugabe will be gone soon, and another dictator will take his place, they can be overthrown if the West wishes them to be. However spare a thought for the poor Palestinian people, who’ll never see there oppressors overthrown.

      • Loony

        RoS – Exactly. All progress regarding Israel is blocked by the US, and the US is impervious to pressure.

        Therefore any progress must come from Israel itself, and that means affecting public opinion inside Israel.

        The comparison between Israel and South Africa is not absolute – but there are parallels. South Africa is the closest example available to ordinary Israeli citizens. I do not consider it likely that many Israeli’s would be impressed if they thought their future would be comparable to the current situation in SA.

        The fact that the west has comprehensively abandoned SA to its fate is unlikely to engender confidence in ordinary Israeli’s and hence unlikely to serve as any form of example as to what can be achieved by compromise.

        Western agitators for reform manifestly do not care about the consequences of their proposed reforms. They are ideological zealots totally unconcerned as to the consequences of their zealotry. Does this constitute a sound platform to recommend reform?

        • Node

          The fact that the west has comprehensively abandoned SA to its fate ….

          I invite you for the third time to say what action you would like the West to take.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Easy. Stop colluding with the local gangsters via corporations, bribes, price transfering and offshore banking.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            The local partners, politicians & fixers who become business partners, do the killing. The corporations do the money moving. The Western govs provide the infrastructure, tax havens, military grants and training. SA is the centre of this corporate activity that rapes the whole fucking continet. Billions are stolen and millions die. Huge prison camps.

            That you need this explaining yet seem to know every fucking detail about Israel sort of makes Loony’s point.

          • Node

            Hey, thanks for telling me exactly what Loony thinks. Makes me wonder why he’s been avoiding answering for himself when it’s so simple. Still, I’ll wait till Loony formally confirms your telepathy before I respond to what you say he believes.

            While you’re waiting for that, you could perhaps ponder whether your comment at 18.23 – “However, unless I’ve missed it cause I’ve not read all comments, I think your SA arg fails to consider …..” reveals why I don’t give a fuck what you think.

          • Loony

            Why do you need to ask such a question?

            As part of the 1979 Lancaster House Agreement the UK and the US promised around $2 billion to fund land reform. You seem to know all the answers, so was this money paid?

            What makes you think that everyone should live like you? You cannot even operate your idealized form of democracy in Northern Ireland so how do you think it will work out in even more complex countries. Could this possibly be the reason why ever since 1979 Zanu PF have held power. Look how you whine about politicians in the west. Do you really think that a government that has presided over hyper inflation, and a total economic collapse enjoys popular support?

            Look at what Cuba has done for SA in terms of training Doctors. Ask yourself how wealthy is Cuba in comparison to the west. Maybe one reason for the wealth discrepancy is because Cuba spends money training Drs. and the west prefers to steal African Drs. and then boast about its tolerance and diversity.

            Look at the EU and its CAP and appreciate that its basic design is to impoverish the already impoverished.

            What is it that is so attractive about unknown numbers of migrants from unknown origins with unknown skills, with unknown cultural mores and unknown motivations and what is it that is so repulsive about hard working self reliant people from southern Africa who you resolutely refuse to admit.

            What is so heart rending about a dead Syrian child on a beach and so uninteresting about mountains of corpses in southern Africa.

            Look at Black Lives Matter, A few days ago they held protests in the UK on the 5th anniversary of the last black person to be shot by police in the UK. Something over 5 million people have been killed in DRC since the turn of the century. Who is protesting their deaths?

            Do you prefer Jeremy Corbyn or Owen Smith? Who do you think has the nicer smile? Did Owen Smith work in PR for Pfizer and did Pfizer illegally dose up African children with experimental drugs causing a meningitis outbreak?. Don’t know don’t care and I got to go mate.

            What is it that motivates you to have a relationship with the truth similar to the relationship of a vampire to sunlight? The answer is, as Phil points out, that you provide useful cover for the ongoing rape of the continent.

          • Node

            Why do you need to ask such a question?

            Because you repeatedly claim the West has let down S. Africa but won’t explain how.

            As part of the 1979 Lancaster House Agreement the UK and the US promised around $2 billion to fund land reform. You seem to know all the answers, so was this money paid?

            So is that it? The West has comprehensively abandoned South Africa to a fate without a £2 billion golden goodbye? On behalf of the West let me sincerely apologise. The West’s word is its bond. I’ll post a cheque tomorrow. Actually I need to get down the post office first and buy some stamps but I’ll do it soon, honest.

            Seriously, thank you for taking the time to compose such a long reply, I do appreciate it, but the person you are addressing isn’t me and I’m not answering on his behalf. I agree with most of your points actually, including the bit about me whining about politicians. You’ve enlightened me about the problems in SA society, thanks, but I don’t concede you have the right to lecture me about where I channel my compassion.

            BTW, Phil is the biggest whiner of all of us but his ‘top tips for anarchists’ pamphlet says that if he whines ANGRILY at EVERYBODY it’ll be mistaken for gritty cynicism.

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Node
            “reveals why I don’t give a fuck what you think.”

            And I thought folks around here were hot for playing the ball.

        • Republicofscotland

          “The fact that the west has comprehensively abandoned SA to its fate”

          __________

          Looney.

          South Africa is a democratic country, it has the full levers of power to run its affairs. No one is abandoning it, SA, must solve its own democratic problems just like any other nation, whether they be racial cultural or whatever form they takes.

          Israeli society however, treats those (Palestinians ) of which they forcibly stole their lands undemocratically, nowhere in the Israeli constitution is the word democracy mentioned, I know I’ve checked it.

          As you rightly point out the attitudes of the Israeli people need to change, but when you have heavy financial support and the backing of the USA, why would you consider a two state solution, when you can have it all.

          Alas there has been much talk, over the plight of the Palestinian people, but the spineless UN, can’t bring itself to actually do anything about it, for fear of upsetting the Great Satan (US government). Though this unsigned resolution, came close to actually calling a spade a spade.

          South African society will eventually settle down, though it will take decades of unrest, however the fate of the Palestinian people, is that of the Kurds or Chagossians, peoples without a land.

          http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r123.htm

        • Phil the ex-frog

          Loony

          I am sympathetic to your argument that much of the left obsess over Israel. Personally I imagine someone in Langley sniggering every time a comment is written about how Israel runs US foreign policy. Some of the contortions here justifying the focus on Israel are simply painful. However, unless I’ve missed it cause I’ve not read all comments, I think your SA arg fails to consider the high murder rate of whites is most likely due to the end of apartheid failing to deliver wealth redistribution.

  • RobG

    I’m not sure what’s going on here…

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/14/labour-party-members-leadership-election-challenge-supreme-court

    … because the appeals court ruling on Friday went way beyond the squabbles about Labour Party membership. This ruling leaves contract law in tatters (which is why the judge on Monday, who ruled in favour of the new members, said that there’s no way the NEC would win an appeal). This surely has to be taken to the supreme court, and I’m pretty sure that the five new members who brought the case against the NEC could crowd source the dosh for it…

    https://www.crowdjustice.co.uk/case/labour-party-membership/

    • Node

      Your link leads to another BBC story :

      The mayor of Cannes in France has banned full-body swimsuits, or “burkinis”, from the French city’s beaches.
      David Lisnar issued the ordinance on the grounds that burkinis, which are popular with Muslim women, “could risk disrupting public order while France was the target of terrorist attacks”.
      He also said burkinis were a “symbol of Islamic extremism” which are “not respectful of [the] good morals and secularism” upon which the French state was founded.

      I wondered whether you agree with this ban. BTW, a “burkini” does not cover the face.

    • Alan

      “The Corsicans had threatened Muslims that they will not tolerate any crap in their homeland.”

      I watched a documentary on TV about Corsica; more guns than Texas and they not only practise regularly, but they used them in anger before in WW2, unlike Texans, who haven’t used theirs since the Alamo.

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