Irish Union on European Agendas 94


I was speaking with a Polish friend who is a Member of the European Parliament. He confirmed that Brexit had led to very wide support for Scottish Independence in the Parliament, across many political and national divides. He also made the interesting point that the cause of Irish reunification was again mentioned in the bars of Brussels.

This of course makes perfect sense. With the personal and economic freedoms and common rights of EU citizenship, a sense of both the Republic and the North being inside a much wider union took the edge off some of the grievances of Irish nationalists, at least to the degree that this was a contributing argument for ceasing to pursue reunification by violence. It is a commonplace that Brexit undermines the intellectual and emotional basis of the Good Friday agreement – it certainly does. I hope Brexit will not result in renewed violence, but that it will result in a strongly renewed demand for Irish reunification I do not doubt – and I will support that demand.

The sympathy that demand for Irish union will invoke in Europe post-Brexit is but one example of the extreme diplomatic isolation of the UK under the Little Englanders. Boris Johnson and Liam Fox will have no mates abroad, other than Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Saudi and Gulf tyrants; while Trump’s words of praise for Brexit will be backed by no trade or policy concessions whatsoever.


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94 thoughts on “Irish Union on European Agendas

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  • Stu

    ” It is a commonplace that Brexit undermines the intellectual and emotional basis of the Good Friday agreement – it certainly does. I hope Brexit will not result in renewed violence, but that it will result in a strongly renewed demand for Irish reunification I do not doubt – and I will support that demand. ”

    Mechanisms exist within the Good Friday Agreement for Irish reunification.

    Anyone who suggests any other method of reunification is undermining the agreement. The thoughts of a Polish MEP on the matter are about as relevant as the thoughts of a UK MP on Palestine.

    • Kempe

      The violence in NI has never really gone away. A young man and his mother were shot in the legs yesterday and a 16 year old boy got the same treatment on Friday. I fear the divisions over reunification go deeper than Brexit.

      • Herbie

        It’s outta the frying pan into the fire, I’m afraid.

        Ireland was supposed to be the poster boy for rainbow Globalism.

        Where’d that go.

        Should of stuck with Dev’s pastoralism.

        Ireland’s De Gaulle.

        The human scale.

        Real food, families and stuff.

        Anyway.

        Modern Irish terrorism and attendant local brutalities are of external manufacture.

        Always have been, since 1600s on.

        Same as Syria and everywhere else the Globalists ply their evil trade.

        In other news:

        Normally it would have looked like Grand WIizard Sutherland’s apprentice Coveney was a shoe-in for Kenny’s job.

        Should that not happen.

        It’s Trumpy anti-Globalist shift again.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON73jvzqC6M

        That’s Coveney with Grand Master Sutherland there at Bilderberg a few years ago.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sutherland

  • Andy

    One problem, the unionists would take up arms and there would be war.
    I doubt the RoI would want to have deal with 100,000s of very angry unionists and their paramilitaries setting off bombs in Dublin.

    • lysias

      If a secessionist Scotland were to join an Irish federal state, that might be enough to quiet the fears of the Ulster unionists.

      The romantic in me has always been attracted by the idea of a Stuart restoration in the event of such a development. (The heirs of the Stuart claim are now the royal house of Liechtenstein.) Such a restoration would, after all, reverse the results of the battles of the Boyne and of Culloden.) But I suppose a Stuart restoration would be too much for the Ulster unionists to swallow.

        • lysias

          No doubt that is true of te 17th century. But weren’t the Stuarts and the highlanders later romanticized by the likes of Wakter Scott?

          Even secretly republican Robert Burns continued to have an emotional attachment to the Jacobite cause supported by his father that one can infer in his poems.

          • Stu

            Burns is full of contradictions but it’s irrelevant. These issues were settled history by the time he and Scott were writing.

            The Shortbread tin view of history and an aversion to acknowledge the history of sectarian conflict in the country has left most Scots almost entirely ignorant of their country’s history.

  • Decoud

    You mean the EU is seeking to meddle in another country’s affairs, for reasons driven not by its citizens but the political aims of the EU. And you like that?

    • wildcat

      England doesn’t just meddle in Scotland’s affairs now. With EVEL, Brexit against Scotland’s choice and the trashing of the Sewell Convention, that is simply diktat, not meddling. Add to which the rejection yet again of any devolution of broadcasting. As well as strong hints of repatriated Scottish agriculture and fishing powers from Brussels going straight to Westminster. Which would be against the wishes of all of Scotland’s MPs except one. Namely Colonial Governor Mundell.

      Not to mention that now NHS England is more or less privatised, Westminster will be looking to do the same to NHS Scotland against the wishes of the Scottish Parliament.

      Compared to all that, what is EU meddling to Scotland?

  • c rober

    If Ireland is a complex problem , then it was made that way on purpose , the old empire and its divide is to conquer.

    No doubt many others will comment that there is no urgency to have reunification , without it being democratically wanted. But just like Brexit , and its affect on Scottish electorate , the tide is rising …. well of sorts.

    The new goal is yet another step in the process , rather than a gallop , where the Uk will without a shadow of a doubt cast of NI if and when it is no longer viable , financially or strategically – Sure many will offer that the same said of Scotland being a parasite is actually said of NI – of both ends of the spectrum , not just of one.

    EIRE is aiding and abetting the UK , Westminster , England to a point , and will do so even more with promises of banking Jobs for the Dublin wealthy. Jobs which will do nothing but enrage those outwith the city and burbs , those that already know of wealth in the Capital is aided by using English ports for exports – and with it a biased UK trade in return for Irish exports. This is the same sort of biased deal that the UK hopes to create and enlarge by brexit , the sort of biased and subsidized trade deals the in theory give EU members protection from.

    But I digress on the reasonings , the problems , but yet see the solution – that is one of a United Ireland albeit federal – of taxes retained in each region as a result. This of course needs to happen , economy is a driver as well as a divider , and if Dublin thinks the open border has no cost then it is frankly foolish if not forgetful. The UK will then insist on a double tarrif for the economy of NI , via moving IRISH exports via the North , subsidising English port jobs , through creating even more of them.

    Ireland today is supposedly the post boy , or comeback king , following the financial crisis. Not so long ago , when Salmond was taking of Celtic Tigers , then the crash and oil price plummeting , the media reminded him and us of their plight…. Today though strangely quiet on that front , when Ireland has the best GDP in the EU in growth and debt downplay due to letting the banks fail , sure it was short sharp shock , but the alternative we have in the UK , Scotland , ROTWW , a decade of austerity and increased deficit.

    I dont doubt there is indeed a tide turning in the North and South , towards that union once more , the maths are indeed there. But just like the talk in our media a few weeks ago , and in last year , of the Ulsterisation of Scotland it is perhaps a threat much larger than the actuality.

    For that only a federal Ireland may be the solution , Germany for example sets that federal tone , and has lets face it a history thus a proven concept. The other option , which has never worked , the reason for Basque , Catalan , Scotland , NI , by suppression , implanting , and division shows that the colonists system still doesnt work – unless you have the power to keep the dogs quelled , fed and watered enough , that there is no bite left from the dog on its master.

    • Stu

      Ireland only has the best GDP due to it’s tax haven status. A very large part of that GDP is taxed at 0.005%

  • wildcat

    Couldn’t Alyn Smith and Ian Hudghton get some kind of petition or motion whereby MEPs can publicly sign up to support Scotland as an EU member if we opt for independence? The results could be very interesting.

  • Clydebuilt

    Is the UK going to trade access to Scottish fishing waters for Spain’s fishermen in return for Spain blocking An Independent Scotland’s membership of the EU?

  • fred

    The barriers to unification in Ireland are more religious than political. Eire is still a de facto Catholic state as what it says on the constitution, most of the institutions are still owned and run by the Catholic church. I don’t think there will ever be unification till Eire is truly secular.

    • c rober

      You honestly think that?

      Long is gone the cap in hand in front of the church in Ireland – its probably why they have progressed so much as bums on seats dwiindle.

        • lysias

          If the Ulster Protestants had not seceded, the Catholic Church would have had considerably less power in a united Ireland.

  • Loony

    Is there no end to the casual disdain to be shown for Spain.

    Spain is a country of 45 million souls – it is not some insect to trodden on and then wiped from your shoe.

    Spain has already been crushed economically with vast swathes of its youth forced to flee its shores and now you have the gall to seek to enlist European support for Scottish independence and Irish reunification. What do you imagine the effects would be on Catalan demands for independence and all the peoples of Pais Vasco – a country that also extends into France.

    What would be left of Spain if Catalonia were ripped from it – what hope would there be for the future. The rump of Spain would be hurtled into the third world – and for what purpose? Just so “anti racist Scots” could feel good about themselves – whilst resolutely refusing to recognize their own culpability in the destruction of an entire nation.

    Maybe some of the survivors could be hired as domestic help by liberal Scots and campesinos could be trained to wipe the blood of their countrymen from soles of your shoes.

    If you don’t like the English then have the bottle to front them up yourselves – how dare you try to sacrifice an entire nation on the bonfire of your own vanities.

  • Alcyone

    That is a very limited, and pessimistic outlook. Fact is an England and Wales will be far easier to manage, implementing a bold economic strategy incorporating a strong manufacturing, processing, services and New Economy foundation.

    Britain can indeed be great again by doing the right things and doing them right. That is the future, not the pervasive fears you express. These languishing growth rates in Europe are not tenable.

  • Republicofscotland

    “I hope Brexit will not result in renewed violence, but that it will result in a strongly renewed demand for Irish reunification”

    ________

    I agree but alas I think violence would come to the fore, I recall a huge stramash a few years back in NI, over the idea, not to fly the Union Jack over civic buildings. I could imagine the anger among the loyalists if a reunified Ireland was touted in earnest.

    The loyalist Neanderthals were out in force during the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. On the eve of their victory, the ran amok in Glasgow assaulting and stabbing, those who voted yes to independence.

    They gave Nazi salutes, and waved their butchers apron. Unfortunately I can imagine a similar scenario in NI, if the idea of a united Ireland ever made it to the ballot box.

    I could also imagine a similar scenario, happening in NI that happened during the 2014 indyref in Scotland. Where London sent up copious amounts of unionist MP’s and civil servants to regurgitate the unionist speel. They even wheeled out ex-PM’s and Z-list celebrities too boot.

    NI would suffer the same onslaught of propagandists.

    • Davy

      There would be propagandists, plenty of fake news for certain. If there is going to be a second Scottish referendum – any many believe that the vote counting was completely rigged – it would be better if the whole process could be managed start to finish by foreign arbiters. In 2014, there were issues about postal votes (800,000 the future as I recall), voting papers sent for counting in England, inadequate vetting of vote counters, only Scots resident in Scotland being allowed to vote (what about Scots living in England?), EU nationals resident in Scotland voting, to name a few. There was also an almost immediate reneging of commitments made by Westminster politicians once the results were in. Have the Scottish people learned from this? Is there sufficient awareness amongst people in Scotland?

      News coverage in 2014 was very biased, one sided and skewed. Why are they so desperate to rule Scotland? Why don’t they just let Scotland go? There are enough people in England who are in favour of that. Scots have had enough of being ruled from Westminster. Already there’s some talk of a referendum being called in a few weeks – anyone know more about this?

      • lysias

        It continues to be a historical mystery why Lincoln felt he had to resist the secession of the Lower South by force, especially after he had won the important political victory of having the Upper South vote not to secede. His own Secretary of State, Seward, favored allowing the Lower South to secede peacefully , among other reasons because he thought the Lower South would not be able to make a go of it and would eventually be forced to sue for readmission to the Union. After Lincoln made his decision to coerce the Lower South, the Upper South joined in secession, and the Confederacy became a real military threat, which it never would have been otherwise.

      • wildcat

        Davy

        You’re right. In 2014 the vote was left to each council area to organise just as if it was a regular election. That meant 32 returning officers in Scotland’s 32 council areas. The Electoral Commission’s role was to oversee the campaign and campaign spending and they had nothing to do with the vote itself.

        There has to be international supervision for indyref2. The SNP and the Greens must make sure of it.

      • fred

        “There would be propagandists, plenty of fake news for certain. ”

        Yes i know, remember last time, the vast oil fields to the west of Scotland that Westminster was keeping secret till after the referendum.

        How are they doing BTW, the vast oil fields the Nationalist zoomers were convinced were there back in 2016? That is the propaganda and fake news you were referring to isn’t it or doesn’t that count?

        • wildcat

          Funnily enough Fred there is a report on the BBC web pages today that geologists reckon there are large deposits of oil and gas in the Rockall basin that have been previously missed.

          • fred

            So what happened to the vast secret oil fields to the west of Shetland the Nationalist zoomers were all on about before the referendum?

          • wildcat

            fred

            So what happened to Gordon Brown’s Vow that said Scotland would have full home rule just short of independence if we voted No?

            What happened to the promise that Scotland’s influence the UK would be enhanced if we voted No?

            What happened to the assurance that Scotland in the EU could only be guaranteed by voting No?

          • fred

            What, bullshit?

            Real facts are that North Sea oil revenues in the first half of 2016/17 was minus £280m.

            Some oil boom.

          • JOML

            You really do lack a sense of humour, Fred, although believing the Scotland Act 2017 = the ‘Vow’ is laughable!

          • fred

            The Unionists promised more powers for the Scottish government and they delivered more powers for the Scottish government.

            The Nationalists promised an oil boom and delivered revenue figures printed in red ink.

          • wildcat

            fred

            The unionist party leaders Cameron, Miliband and Clegg promised full powers for Scotland short of independence. Not your vague phrase “more powers” fred. Many voted No, beguiled by the fraudulent offers of the unionist leaders.

          • fred

            They should have learnt a lesson from 1939, it’s pointless trying to appease a Nationalist, the more you give them the more they want.

            Where is the oil boom?

          • Dave

            Cameron made some wild (and unnecessary) promises to win the vote, but the Unionists “devolution in UK” is closer to independence than the SNP’s “devolution in EU” position.

  • Sid F

    “”The whole map of Europe has been changed … but as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again.””

    Honestly, if the Irish can’t sort their own shit out without the Brits™ to hold their hand then they’re beyond help.

    • lysias

      Irish Catholics have always resented how the two majority Catholic counties of Fermanagh and Tyrone, which had elected Nationalists to Westminster, were included in Northern Ireland. If it had been the whole of Ulster, including the other predominantly Catholic counties of Donegal, Monaghan, and Cavan (my father’s native county), the Catholics would have come too close to being a majority, with prospects of soon becoming a majority, for the liking of the Ulster Unionists. So they established a Northern Ireland that was large enough to make a go of it and with a small enough Catholic minority so that they were not a threat. Fermanagh and Tyrone were included both to make the new state large enough and because they had significant Protestant minorities. Also, the Ulster Protestants had a sentimental attachment to the county town of Fermanagh, Enniskillen, because of its history. (Read Macaulay.) Finally, a lot of the officer class in the British Army, whose loyalty on the issue was doubtful, were Ulster Protestants.

      The end result was that, in drawing the boundary, Protestants were given greater weight than Catholics.

      • lysias

        Although the Liberals were obliged by the realities of coalition politics to pass Irish Home Rule, their hearts were never really in it. Hence statements like Churchill’s. And hence home rule was postponed by the Great War, and then diluted by partition, a partition that, as I have explained, discriminated against Catholics.

        • wildcat

          Did you know Lysias that a Scottish MP called William Cowan presented a Scottish Home Rule Bill to Westminster in 1913? It had a lot of support and had reached it’s second reading by the outbreak of the Great War. It was shelved like the Irish Home Rule Bill.

      • Herbie

        Yeahbut.

        That’s a bit abstract.

        It was the land.

        The land.

        The beautiful fertile and very productive land of Fermanagh and Tyrone.

        The lakes.

        It’s always wealth, you see.

        Monee.

        Didn’t have much oil.

        Just nutrient dense soil.

    • lysias

      Sid F, I think you’re ignoring the extent to which the British state was responsible for Ireland’s problems. What was done to Ireland both in Cromwell’s time and at the time of the Potato Famine can aptly be called “genocide”. The thoughts of a work like Edmund Spenser’s Descrption of the State of Ireland truly were genocidal. And throughout the period of English and then British rule, divide and rule has always been the governing principle.

  • Duncan

    I am entirely sympathetic to Irish unification. However I do not wish the issue of Scottish independence to become entwined with the Irish situation. The continued presence of Loyalist and Nationalist extremists makes Ireland a potential powder keg. If the Unionists and their many friends in the media can find ways to suggest that Irish violence will be replicated in Scotland, they will be merciless in their condemnation suggesting Scottish civil war similar to what has been happening in the North for years. We do not want to scare the horses. We must focus on Scottish independence.

  • Dave

    I would argue it the other way, Brexit makes a Scottish vote for devolution in EU in preference to devolution in UK less likely, because Scotland is clearly stronger within the UK than the EU. Merely considering the reality of Scottish votes at Westminster, do you think a UK parliament would ever treat Scotland like the EU treated Greece?

    Also, but not in the way you think, Brexit makes Scottish independence more likely, because it is easier for Scotland to exit the UK than EU. But genuine independence means control of borders and own currency, not the pretend independence offered by the SNP. But then again less likely because following Brexit we no longer need to shadow EU/Euro-currency austerity which will boost the economy, and means why Scotland go for full independence when they can be successful and almost independent within the UK?

    And I would argue it the other way regarding Ireland too. Brexit makes Irish Unity more likely, but within UK rather than EU, because both have greater influence and kinship within the UK than within the EU. Ireland gave up independence when they joined the CM>EU and now the Irish civil war is over their border can disappear as members of a Britain and Ireland Union. Many Irish like the Greeks favoured the EU as modern, despite economic reservations, but Ireland and Britain have changed and the old enmities are changing too, making a North and South Ireland Union as part of the UK more realistic than as part of the EU.

    • MJ

      “it is easier for Scotland to exit the UK than EU”

      It can leave the EU by simply doing nothing, but leaving the UK requires action. Joining the EU may not be possible. It is not Scotland’s decision but that of the EU member states. Scotland can only apply to join and keep its fingers crossed.

      • Dave

        No I meant if Scotland had left UK and was a full member of EU then seeking independence from the EU would be harder than seeking independence from UK.

    • Munsterman

      Ireland will never be annexed by the UK again – nor will Ireland ever vote to join the UK.
      Ever.
      If you do not even understand this you have absolutely no clue about Ireland.

  • wildcat

    North of England correspondent for The Guardian Nazia Parveen has a piece today highlighting the fact that most of Westminster’s transport budget now gets spent on London. While the think tank IPPR North forecast that with current and planned projects London’s share will only increase.

    Scotland has zero consideration from the Westminster neoliberals. It’s crystal clear as even the North of England is neglected to an historically unprecedented degree. Time for Scotland to get away from this subjection called Union.

    • nevermind

      indeed Ian, off topic posts are usually on page two. Sharp ears query yesterday can only be seconded, moderation should not take on a right wing character or succumb to Trumpelstilzken mania….. a form of Germano-Scottish humour with a twist of cabaret…..

  • nevermind

    Just as east and west Germany were bound to come together, so should Ireland. Coming together will mean more peace.
    A united Ireland can only improve on the past, whether it was yesterday in Belfast, on red Sunday or in Ballymurhpy.

    We shall have some Kohl und Pinkel today, with some delicious Polish cooking sausages and we shall toast to a unified Ireland with a couple of drams of Tullamore Dew. Slantje

  • Roderick Russell

    Reading Lysais’s comment about the American Civil War (Feb 20 @ 15.46), I thought to bring to your attention a radio interview yesterday that suggested that America is in as big a crisis today as she was then.

    It is no secret that Donald Trump and the CIA are at loggerheads. Yesterday the Canadian broadcasting Corporation (CBC) interviewed a retired but very senior former CIA operative, Glenn Carle, who made no secret of the disagreement between the CIA and President Trump. Among other comments Mr. Carle thought that CIA operatives in this case were “justified in leaking classified information” and went on to state that America was facing its “biggest crisis since 1861, that was our civil war”. Indeed he apparently thinks that the “crisis” is bigger than the 2nd world war and bigger than Vietnam. The CBC Radio interview starts 50 seconds into the 5 minute long interview which can be found on the following URL:

    http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/878670403989

    This is well worth listening to. I have no comment on it except to say that I was absolutely shocked. See if you are.

    • lysias

      Yes, a civil war is becoming more and more possible. However, I think the outcome of such a war, if it were to occur, is foreordained. An overwhelming majority of police and military personnel voted for and support Trump. That’s what polls showed. Then there are former military people like me, who did not vote for Trump but who recognize that, in such a war, Trump’s side would represent constitutionalism and the rule of law against a group who want to overturn the result of a legitimate election. Like Lee, who did not like slavery, I would feel obliged to support a side that in many ways I do not like.

  • Velofello

    @ Alcyone; “Britain can be great again by doing the right things and doing them right”. Sorry pal, in the UK Establishment’s mindset, “doing the right thing” is doing what is best for the Establishment to enrich themselves.

    And just as “doing the right thing” in the Britain is Great era, was plundering the resources of weaker,less mercenary nations.So post Brexit, just wait for the trade of goods with Uncle Sam, and to whose benefit? I reckon you will witness the USA “doing the right thing” with rUK. Coloured beads, and rot gut whisky, for the Establishment?And Trident for the rest of us.

    • Alcyone

      Could be that I’m the eternally romantic strategist. I just hope that the Govt has astute negotiators on their side in Brexiting. I get worried sometimes when I see senior experienced politicians like IDS failing to make the point that the possibilities of ramping up business and associated infrastructure are there. Sometimes I really wonder how many of these MP’s really understand business.

      • Laguerre

        What possibilities of ramping up business? Trump as the major ally is hardly reliable. The others are more interested in the concessions UK will give.

  • Laguerre

    I’d agree with Craig that Britain is becoming diplomatically isolated over Brexit. And indeed the Brexiters within Britain. I get the impression of a shift in the last week, after Tony Blair’s speech – even though he is hardly the right person to be making it. Could be wrong. But May sitting on the steps listening to the Lords’ debate is a sign of lack of confidence. No doubt the vote will be pushed through – British politics is like that. But that she had to be there is a sign of weakness.

      • Laguerre

        Peter Ford is a highly experienced former ambassador to Syria, and has a lot of good sense. He is right that Saydnaya is too small to have held the 13,000 suggested by Amnesty. If you look at the satellite images, it is quite a small building. It would have had to be a real Auschwitz to have executed that many, and no witnesses are claiming that. No doubt the Ba’thists killed people, but not that ridiculous extent.

    • Stu

      Reading the comments on her tweets is an eye opener.

      Anti Russian propaganda has really whipped some people into a right old state.

  • Winkletoe

    …Boris Johnson and Liam Fox will have no mates abroad, other than Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Saudi and Gulf tyrants…

    No mates other than Trump, Netanyau, an assorted bunch of ME tyrants (and a few more… Dopey Trudeau, the oz fellow, what’s’is’name, likewise the nz one, the kievan chocco-king or his imminent successor, not to mention the clinto-busho-remnants) is exactly the state of affairs that Slobbo Johnson, Werrity Fox (bless-his-welwet-sox), Mayflower and friends would love to find themselves in.

  • FannyAdams

    O/T – Milo Yiannopoulos disinvited from CPac after making comments on child abuse – YIKES (what a cnt)

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/20/milo-yiannopoulos-denies-supporting-paedophilia-cpac-online-video

    Within the Guardian article is a link to Milo the hateful’s response. He claims he couldn’t be a supporter of pedo’s because he has outed three of them. Only problem with this defense is – one he ‘outed’, Luke Bozier, who Milo calls a ‘pedophile’ + ‘pervert’, was cautioned by the police for ”images of 16-18 year old girls in swimwear’ apparently. If Milo accuses Bozier of being a pedo and perv for this, how can he claim NOT to be one himself if he advocated sexual relationships between ‘young boys’ and ‘older men’ as he puts it. Milo claims 13 year old children should be able to decide if they want a relationship with 30 year olds????

    What a clown. Hopefully this destroys this pathetic merchant of hate. Any supporters of the right like to defend Milo here? Or anyone who is on facebook like to point out this conundrum for Milo to explain. (I don’t use it myself)

    https://www.facebook.com/myiannopoulos/posts/851263248344905

  • Tom

    Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, Farage, Hannan and the rest certainly don’t speak for England either. Many of us are well aware that they have hijacked England for their American masters, with Rupert Murdoch as their PR man, and Theresa May as the new girl terrified of making a mess of things.
    But ‘Little England’ certainly is to blame for being too naive and complacent to see these scoundrels for the kind of people they are. And before long they will have the opposite of what they thought they were voting for – a neutered, divided, chaotic state that will probably have us begging to rejoin the EU in a few years, on whatever terms.

  • Conan

    Hmm. Have you been following the Irish language funding issue in NI, more relevant than the £500m ‘cash for ash’ scandal in undoing the Assembly? It is the secular era version of ‘kicking the Pope’. Unless a generation comes that puts these sclerotic politicians out to grass then the mayhem will always be on standby. And, you’d be surprised, there are many in the Republic who want nothing to do with NI, they dislike the republicans, the unionists and the horrendous public service cost of ‘the six counties’.

    • Old Mark

      there are many in the Republic who want nothing to do with NI, they dislike the republicans, the unionists and the horrendous public service cost of ‘the six counties’.

      Conan-
      The Republic will never subsidise the six counties at the same level as Westminster does; Irish unity would result in the North adjusting to RoI arrangements over health care for instance- charges for GP appointments, calling out an ambulance, attending A&E as starters. These realities will likely deter many nationalists from actually endorsing the ‘aspiration’ of Irish unity concretely in a referendum on the border.

      I doubt if Craig’s conversation about Irish unity with his Polish friend got around to discussing the bread and butter modalities of its implementation- I’m sure it was more a case of our man lapping up a few mildly Anglophobic asides from a Brussels trougher.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    O/T

    This response to the Government’s work, health and disability Green Paper “Improving Lives” (October 2016), from five major mental health bodies including the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP), is worth reading in its entirety.

    Here are a few newsflashes for the Government, and for people who think it’s essential for people’s mental health that they should be in work.

    “We urge the Government to consider not only the Jobcentre’s role in increasing the rate of employment, but also in ensuring the quality of that employment. The support packages and employment opportunities need to be meaningful and sustainable. Compulsory, short-term quick fixes risk either a deterioration of mental health in previously unaffected individuals, or an exacerbation of existing mental health conditions for already vulnerable individuals, as well as potential longer term unemployment.”

    “There is significant evidence that inappropriate and unsupportive employment can be worse for people’s mental health than unemployment.”

    “We urge the Government to look at how Job Centre systems and requirements may themselves be exacerbating mental health problems.”

    “[W]e urge the Government to explicitly recognise that any attempts to support the provision of “the right personal support at the right time for individuals” must be underpinned by a significant culture shift within the DWP and JC provision.
    The focus should shift to “making work more attractive rather than making unemployment less attractive”. Movement is also needed away from the implicit assumption of the current system and culture that “there is something wrong with unemployed people” to understanding that the support mechanisms must be individualised and tailored to their biological, psychological and social needs.”

    “In January 2017, we called for the suspension of the use of sanctions outlining that whilst the sanctions process is undermining mental health and wellbeing – there is no clear evidence of pay off in terms of increased employment. International evidence indicates that although benefits sanctions substantially raise exits from benefits and may increase short term employment; there are unfavourable longer term outcomes for earnings, job quality and employment retention.”

    “The Government should also play close attention to the trials of “citizen’s income” (also known as basic income) around the world, which if demonstrated to be effective may potentially provide a template for a benefits system with a clearer incentive structure to work without the psychologically and materially damaging elements of conditionality and sanctions.”

    “We are concerned that when work coaches are considering making a referral of a claimant for psychological intervention or treatment for individuals, it is essential to ensure that this is understood to be voluntary and that there are a range of appropriate options to consider. We are strongly committed to the importance of ensuring a choice of interventions and that the means of delivery must be tailored to the individual as some interventions are not appropriate or effective for all. Inappropriate interventions can have adverse consequences on an individual’s understanding of themselves, their attitudes, behaviour and psychological wellbeing. Ultimately, any process designed to support those in need must uphold or improve the psychological wellbeing of those individuals.”

    Paragraph upon paragraph of good sense, which rather begs the question of why all these recommendations are not in place already. In fact, the only point on which I would take substantial issue with the Joint Response is in its rather dubious assumption that the Government’s intentions are good and the results of, say, sanctions are unintended consequences. I think there is little evidence that the Government intends to do anything other than punish and stigmatise the unemployed, and bully and sanction them back to inappropriate and unpleasant work without the least concern for their psychological wellbeing. After all, someone’s got to do it, right? J

    http://www.bps.org.uk/system/files/consultationpapers/responses/final%20joint%20Green%20Paper%20response%20BPS%20BACP%20UKCP%20BPC%20BABCP.pdf

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