Thatcher – and Many Still Active Tories – Did Support Apartheid 895

I am delighted that Sir Patrick Wright, former head of the Diplomatic Service, has confirmed that Margaret Thatcher did support apartheid. There has been a polite media airbrushing of this aspect of Tory history. For the first two years of my life in the FCO I spent every single day trying to undermine Thatcher’s support for apartheid. As I published last year of the FCO’s new official history:

Salmon acquits Thatcher of actually supporting apartheid. I would dispute this. I was only a Second Secretary but the South Africa (Political) desk was just me, and I knew exactly what was happening. My own view was that Thatcher was a strong believer in apartheid, but reluctantly accepted that in the face of international opposition, especially from the United States, it would have to be dismantled. Her hatred of Mandela and of the ANC was absolute. It is an undeniable statement that Thatcher hated the ANC and was highly sympathetic towards the apartheid regime.

By contrast the Tory FCO junior ministers at the time, including Malcolm Rifkind and Lynda Chalker, shared the absolute disgust at apartheid that is felt by any decent human being. The Foreign Secretary, Geoffrey Howe was somewhere between these two positions, but very anxious indeed not to anger Thatcher. South Africa was an issue in which Thatcher took an extreme interest and was very, very committed. Not in a good way.

British diplomats were almost banned from speaking to any black people at all. Thatcher favoured the Bantustan or Homelands policy, so an exception was made for Gatsha Buthelezi, the Zulu chief who was regarded as anti-ANC and prepared to oppose sanctions and be satisfied with a separate Zulu “homeland” for his Inkatha movement and essentially accept apartheid exclusions. That may be unfair on him, but it was the policy of the UK government to steer in that direction. Our Consulate General in Johannesburg was permitted to talk to black trades unionists, and that was our main angle in to the black resistance movement. These contacts were made by the excellent Tony Gooch and Stuart Gregson, and before them the equally excellent Terry Curran, then my immediate boss in London. Neither Terry nor Tony were “fast-track” public school diplomats. None of those talked to black South Africans at all.

I flew off the handle when I discovered, when dealing with the accounts of the Embassy in Pretoria/Capetown (a migratory capital), that the British Ambassador, Patrick Moberly, had entertained very few black people indeed in the Residence and the vast majority of Embassy social functions were whites only. In 1985 most of the black people who got in to the British Ambassador’s residence in South Africa were the servants. I recall distinctly the astonishment in the FCO that the quiet and mild-mannered young man at the side desk had suddenly lost his rag and got excited about something that seemed to them axiomatic. Black people as guests in the Residence in Pretoria? No, Craig, I was told, we speak with black people in Johannesburg. Different culture there.

Wright’s account collaborates mine both in general and in detail, eg on being banned from any contact with the ANC. Eventually we managed, as a tentative first step and unknown to No.10, to arrange a meeting, ostensibly by accident in the margins of a conference, between myself and a brilliant young man from the newly launched trades union federation named Cyril Ramaphosa. I wonder what happened to him? 🙂 I was the recipient of his justified ire at Tory government policy.

Tories who actively supported apartheid are still very influential in the Tory party, notably the St Andrews Federation of Conservative Students originating group, including Michael Forsyth. Even David Cameron’s contacts with South Africa in this period are a very murky part of his cv. It is important the Tories are not allowed off the hook on this. The moral taint should rightly be with them for generations.

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895 thoughts on “Thatcher – and Many Still Active Tories – Did Support Apartheid

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  • Tony_0pmoc

    I’m a masive fan of Caitlin Johnstone..She just wrote

    “US forces have attacked the Syrian military, reporting over a hundred deaths.The Syrian Ministry of Foreign Affairs is calling the air strike a massacre, a war crime, and a crime against humanity.

    The US is an invading, occupying force that is in Syria without the permission of its government, yet it is claiming that the air strike was an act of “self-defense” against an “unprovoked attack” upon the US-backed SDF, a mostly Kurdish militia which had occupied an area of Syrian land. No Americans suffered any injuries or deaths in the attack. The SDF suffered a single reported injury.

    It’s a bit like saying you broke into someone’s house and strangled them from behind with a garotte in self-defense.”


  • Tony_0pmoc

    I tested it once when it first came out, and have never used it since. There is something about it, I really did not, and do not like.

    I like reading long articles, and even books. Most people are now incapable of that.

    However, there are signs that Craig Murray is still alive and tweeting.


  • Tony_0pmoc

    I know nothing about this new technology, but I am an old dog. As a result of reading Craig’s Twitter, I accidentally came across this. I have to say this is rather interesting. It’s like an introduction to not using conventional social media, which is monitored and controlled by the usual suspects – including your local cop shop. Somehow, I find these claims somewhat difficult to believe, as any attempts to actually hide your internet communications are like a red flag to a bull, with regards to the people who are actually paid to monitor these things. Whilst, the quality is quite good for a videolink, that may well be because very few people are actually watching it. Still, it is interesting.

    “THE FUTURE OF JOURNALISM” – A Steemit Exclusive Interview with @suzi3d re: Censorship, Propaganda & the Blockchain.
    Added on 8 Feb 2018
    I first connected with Suzie Dawson, journalist, activist and leader of the Internet Party of New Zealand, on my Steemit page. We had a shared interest in supporting musicians make the shift over to blockchain based technology and finding alternate sources of income in a streaming-based industry.

    As I delved a little deeper into what Suzie is all about, I decided I really need to ask her some questions about some of the larger concepts around blockchain based journalism and why she is an advocate for alternative media moving to Steemit.

    Honestly, this was a mind-expanding conversation for me. Whatever your personal politics are, it is unquestionable that in this day and age the freedom of the press must be protected and supported.”!/v/benleemusic/lgsbftmm


  • reel guid

    Ruth Davidson took to the airwaves today. Not to talk about the Tory government’s brexit report. But to talk about her appearance on Great British Bake Off.

    Let them hear about cake.

    • glenn_nl

      Are you sure you’re not related, or otherwise closely known, or even a not-so alter-ego, to RoS?

  • Tony_0pmoc

    The way it was, was completely normal, we didin’t know anything else…Our towns and cities had been bombed to sh1t. We kind of knew this when we were playing in the still bombed out remnants when we were 7 years old in the 1950’s

    That is how we grew up, but we had NO FEAR, many of our older brothers and sisters and mums and dads, didn’t actually survive WWII…

    But We Did..

    You People in The UK Government – where were you? Didn’t you Live through This and Survive it…

    Or are You Already Braindead?

    Don’t you Remember being a Child in a Bombed Out Warzone – In ENGLAND?

    Do you Really want to do this AGAIN?

    What is Wrong With You?

    Why are You Telling Lies to Promote More War?

    Are You Completely INSANE?

    Why are You Trying To Get Putin to Nuke Us?

    Can’t you Try being Nice to him, and Tell The Truth?

    Come on – It can’t be That hard.


    • Node

      You People in The UK Government ….

      You are appealing to the puppets. You should address your questions to the puppet-masters.

      Every link you post (and I check out most of them) tells the same story – our goverments are controlled by powerful super-national interests. Theresa May has got less real choice in her daily life than you.

      To quote your own Caitlin Johnstone link back at you :

      You can’t see the new empire on a map, so people assume that it isn’t there, but the only reason you can’t see it on the maps we were trained to read in school is because the new empire isn’t in any way limited by geography. It is unconcerned with the little lines drawn between the countries on our plastic classroom globes, or the different colors their manufacturers painted the different nations with. The nationless band of plutocrats who use governments as tools and weapons are not limited by those things. They don’t think in those terms. They don’t care about land and governments, they care about money, power, and influence. And none of those things are geographically confined.

      Perhaps the time has come for the chess piece called ‘Britain’ to be sacrificed.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    After getting fired in Manchester, I was on the dole for 9 months, and had already started what could have been a successful computer business..I realised, that I didn’t really know anything much about the guts of computers, so I bought myself a Commodore VIC20 and start writing computer games in 6502 Assembler – machine code.

    Of course, not only losing my job, I also lost my girlfriend, but almost immediately met another, and I said – I’m about to lose my job, but she was really nice..but I guess I was not the best prospect in the world, but I thought she was.

    So a year later, they offered me the job in London again, I came second the first time. They interviewed me again.

    There was no way, I was not going to accept it. I like working with people.

    I asked her (we were already engaged by that time)

    Will you move from your home in your little village in Lancashire, where all your family and friends live, to London…

    Will you come with me – cos I’m going.

    She says You are Not Going Without Me.

    Still Here. She got her hair done today.

    Still feel the Same.

    Its called being In Love.

    Of course I look, but no competition.

    And everyone knew and knows…so I was no danger.

    My wife and me, should easily make 50 years together.

    We love each other and are Best Friends.


  • Tony_0pmoc

    I never personally came across it, and no one told me about it, and I did spend some time in a Children’s Home, after school, when I was about 7, cos my Mum had a part time job there. I even went on holiday with these kids…Of course there were fights – these kids came from tough homes…but I had no idea if such things were going on. If they were no one told me, and I was an altar boy too…

    I also spent quite a lot of my time in North Wales – especially the Llŷn Peninsular. I used to go fishing in a boat off Nefyn, and all kinds of stuff. I even had my wisdom tooth extracted at very short notice at The Dentists in Pwhelli…No one ever tried to abuse me.

    However, I have no reason to believe, that most of this, which I read today for the first time is not true…but that’s The Welsh for you. It’s written in Academic Mode…you need to scroll down to read it.

    “‘They Planned To Put Acid In All The Reservoirs…’”


    • Salford Lad

      You are asking people to sign a petition on the strength of allegations against Jeremy Newmark. I am afraid some more solid proof of malfeasance is required,

    • John Spencer-Davis

      Not to suspend pending an investigation, which is all I am asking for. In any case, there is more than allegation. There is prima facie evidence of financial misbehaviour, evidenced by an internal audit report.

  • SA

    It looks like a coordinated attack on Syria from three fronts: Turkey in Afrin and Idlib, the US allied forces in eastern Syria and now Israel bombing Damascus. What is amazing about this blatant aggression on a sovereign country is done with impunity. The Israelis have however lost s plane and maybe this might be testing the defences but hopefully might curtail this aggression.

    • nevermind

      Israel was also protesting at North Korea’s ‘shameless’ participation in the Winter Olympics yesterday, together with US war mongers and flag wavers, this is how these two are trying to normalise relations, create peace by using the Olympics as a propaganda event.

      I can only hope that all those who attack sovereign states will get what they deserve, realise that this one sided attack on Syria can backfire at home and or in the war zones they have created.
      Who has called this up to be discussed at the UN security council? Israel has not only illegally annexed the Gholan, it has started a war with Syria and its allies at a point when Syria is weak and in need of help, not more war.

      How long will it take before the 100.000 missiles, as Israel has alleged are held by Hezbollah, start flying at Jerusalem and all its new houses and embassies?

      • Sharp Ears

        The BBC reporter (a Scottish woman) was giving NK full opprobrium also as the opening ceremony was taking place. She was using those well worn terms – an ‘undemocratic regime’ ** and ‘nuclear armed’.

        It does not suit the purposes of the powers-that-be and their stooges to see the Koreans uniting under the Olympic flag.

        ** PS We here in the West live under democratic regimes of course. LOL.

  • Je

    How many civil servants does it take to change a lightbulb, sorry deliver a letter?

    The papers are quoting almost £1000 to hand deliver the Brexit letter in a champagne lifesyle.

    The real cost has got to be higher… lets add their pay… taxi fares (?)… a small slice of the cost of the Residence they stayed in… proper accounting would include all of these…

  • John Spencer-Davis

    It appears that the contributor on here calling himself “Habbabkuk”, who I understand is currently under a ban, has joined the political commentary site “The Lifeboat News” under the name “James Devenish”, where one of his first actions was to go after the comments posted by the commenter who posts on here under the name “Sharp Ears”. On being identified and banned from The Lifeboat News, he seems to have returned immediately under the sock puppet name “Herman”, and was identified and banned again.

    “Habbabkuk” has also gone after “Sharp Ears” on the site “Squonk”.

    I am increasingly disturbed by this behaviour: it strikes me as obsessive and unhealthy. I have formally requested to Craig Murray that “Habbabkuk” be permanently banned from this site. Mods, please could you take note. Many thanks. J

    • Phil the ex-frog

      Personally, I agree with Habbakuk that there is a problem with anti-semitism amongst liberals and the left. Even here my friend.

      Let’s consider your very own petition that you peddle above. You want someone kicked out of your party because he was corrupt elsewhere. Go figure. Quelle supris. A political animal who is corrupt. What a friggin shock! You have identified someone who has cooked the books. What a friggin shock!

      Corruption is everyday and everywhere. As is state violence.

      But of course. He is a Jew. And we all know what they are like about money, wot. Non Jews are way more honest, wot. The irony that you appeal to Ian McNicholas is amusing. Surely a man who is genuinely undermining your progressive project. But no. Some no mark who cooked the books gets your petition.

      Israel could disappear tomorrow, hell you could wish away Judaism, and the corruption and violence would continue unabated. The relentless focus on Israel at the cost of identifying the cause of corruption and state violence is hard to explain. What about the Western Sahara? The Congo? South Africa? And all the rest. These, judging by your relentless focus, are not important. It’s Israel. The Jews. They alone deserve your attention. It;s hard to fathom why.

      The relentless focus on Israel and Jews is, I suggest, just another manifestaion of leftist anti-semitism. This is obessisve and unhealthy behaviour that disturbs me.

        • Phil the ex-frog

          “I think this addresses your “problem””

          Not at all. I didn’t say anything about Iran, China or Syria.

          Some academics often serve power you say? Sorry, how is that even news let alone relevant to my point?

          • Phil the ex-frog

            “Because it addresses the why of your “The relentless focus on Israel and Jews “.”

            Not that I saw. Perhaps you could explain your point yourself.

          • Macky

            “Not that I saw. Perhaps you could explain your point yourself.”

            Amazing that you have to be spoon-fed on this, hopefully it’s because you didn’t really bother to read the Cook piece, because if you did, than frankly you’re beyond any rational discourse.

            One last try; yes atrocities are not just committed in Israel, but the difference between Israel, and for example your highlighting of “Western Sahara? The Congo? South Africa?”, is that activists in the West known that is it their governments’ unprecedented support for Israel that allows it to commit the crimes it does, whereas our governments have little to do with supporting the crimes of other countries; by drawing attention to Israeli crimes, Western activists are actually targeting they own Western Elites support for Israel, because they know that Israel won’t listen to anybody else.

      • JOML

        Phil, it’s depressing to think that corruption should be expected and accepted. With regards the focus on Israel (although I don’t recall ever posting a comment on Israel), I suspect it is because that country does make an attempt to have an increasing influence on the UK’s foreign policy and has some of our MPs on hook. I’m not aware of the other areas of the world you mention having the same approach.

        • Phil the ex-frog

          I did not at all mean to suggest that corruption and state violence should be acceptable. In fact quite the opposite. Obsessing about one small part of the corruption and state violence will never come to an understanding of corruption and state violence. And that his focus tallies with centuries of bigotry is actually worse than simply missing the point.

          Israel’s influence and support in the rich western states reflects it’s strategic usefulness to imperialism – the resource grab by capital. That’s all. As does Saudi Arabia. Yet comment writers here do not seek out Saudi supporters for endless bile and petitions.

      • Christopher Dale Rogers


        Your presumption that attacks on the former head of the Jewish labour Movement are motivated by ‘anti-semitism’ is crass to say the least – he has both perjured himself in Court and now been accused of fraud, a fraud covered up by his peers.

        Lets be blunt, the JLM has been responsible for many hundreds of Labour party members being suspended from the Party due to expressing sympathy with the Palestinian cause – which, as Leftwingers, liberation cause are something we should actually support.

        Now, a consortium of JLM/Labour Party members operating as GnasherJew on Twitter have been accusing numerous individuals of AS, and if members of the Labour Party, sending details and complaints to sympathetic forces within the Labour Party machinery – this crap presided over and endorsed by the former head of the JLM.

        Instead of posting here, perhaps go and read some rather horrible stuff on Blogs hosted by Jonathan (Scoffie) Hoffman and David Collier and post in those places instead – many of the posters who are ardent Zionists have links to, or are sympathetic too the UK’s extreme Right.

        Alas, its the Left which is a hotbed of anti-semitism!!!!

        Please give it a break.

      • John Spencer-Davis

        Usually, I would simply tell someone who accused me of anti-Semitism to go fuck themselves. I’m comfortable enough in my own skin and with my own motivations to be happy doing that.

        However, I know you are a decent and forthright left-wing person not given to mincing your words, and I think you deserve a considered and respectful answer, even though some of what you have said is deeply insulting.

        I don’t know how much you know about Jeremy Newmark. I know something about what he has been up to over the past couple of years. In my judgement – which of course is only mine – he has been deliberately trying to get critics of Israel kicked out of the Labour Party by falsely accusing them of anti-Semitism. In the process, he has been considerably damaging the Labour Party by contributing to the trope that there is a cancer of anti-Semitism within it which is facilitated by Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and the left of the Labour Party generally. Which I regard as not entirely false – indeed, there are occasions when I have vociferously protested left anti-Semitism myself – but as vastly exaggerated and whipped up by the media and by opponents of the left for the purpose of dirtying it in the eyes of the electorate.

        Incidentally, that is not only my judgement. A judge at an industrial tribunal has been scathing about the testimony given by Newmark, regarding his accusing various people of anti-Semitism as invention. That called my attention first to Newmark as a corrupt and slandering individual, and I did not like the look of it at all.

        Now, it appears possible that he is financially corrupt as well. If he has put it behind him, that’s one thing. But what really caught my attention about Newmark is that he’s continuing to lie about it, as I state in my petition. Either he’s lying now, or the Jewish Leadership Council is lying now, and either the internal audit report is wrong in quoting his words or he’s lying now about that, as well. So while he’s damaging the party and spreading his poison about decent people being anti-Semitic, he’s still the same corrupt individual as he was then, if recent testimony is to be believed. Yes. I want someone like that out of the party, if an investigation finds that these are the facts of the matter.

        On the matter of Jews and non-Jews being like this or that about money, go fuck yourself. That’s your stuff, not mine.

        My appeal to Iain McNicol is simple. He’s the person to complain to, and the Labour Party has stated that no complaint has been received yet. So I decided to do so. Somebody had to. If someone else was General Secretary, then my petition would be addressed to them.

        I don’t think I have said a great deal about Israel on here. My beliefs are generally the same as most of the contributors on here, including Craig Murray, but I think it’s pretty unfair if you are accusing me personally of having a relentless focus on Israel and Jews. (Go fuck yourself about that, if you are.) I have said a good deal about accusations of an anti-Semitic cancer within the Labour Party. Certainly. That isn’t my fault. It’s not my fault that people are trying to have a splendid guy like Mike Sivier kicked out of the party and smeared in a national newspaper as a Holocaust denier, when I’ve been reading his stuff on all manner of issues for years and know perfectly well that such an accusation is based on downright falsehoods. I find that damned bloody annoying, and worth standing up for him for and saying so. People accused of such a thing – even falsely – aren’t likely to have a lot of friends, you know. I’ve gone and done the work myself and found out that it’s false – what am I supposed to do, run away and not say so?

        If my current focus is on accusations of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party, that’s because it’s being relentlessly used – by the media, by the Conservatives, by the Labour right, and by those in the Labour Party who wish to dispose of honest and principled criticism of Israel, to damage the party and the current leadership and the threat that the left may gain some measure of power. I am not inclined just to stand by and watch that happen. Hope that clears things up a little. J

        • frankywiggles

          It’s a sign of the degree of dishonesty in British media and public life that Corbyn and his supporters – people who have always been the vanguard of anti-racism and anti-sexism – are smeared by supporters of the f*cking Conservative party as racist and misogynist. Even here, on a blog detailing the depths of Tory racism in the recent past.

          PS, As I mentioned earlier on this thread, all of the highest-profile figures in the Conservative party of 2018 were attracted to join when that party regarded Nelson Mandela as a terrorist and apartheid SA as an ally. But it’s Corbyn and his supporters who are the racists ..

        • Phil the ex-frog


          I know you do not obsess about Israel. Sorry you caught the flak. But.

          I did not defend Newmark – I have no idea who he is. In fact I implicitly accepted he is corrupt. Your extending the argument that he is corrupt is irrelevant.

          Racism, like most bigotry, is more often not a conscious decision. People who do not dentify as racist still enact behaviours that result in racism. For example, the individual members of the labour movement who supported the aliens act 100 years ago rarely proclaimed anti-semitism but anti-semetism was the outcome.

          I don’t doubt your well intended anti-racist credentials. In fact, I would expect you have written many comments challenging the obsessive focus on Israel and Judaism here. I mean, you have, haven’t you?

          BTW I do not consider myself “left-wing”.

          • John Spencer-Davis

            Thank you, Phil. I appreciate the gentle answer.

            I am disappointed, then, that you wrote so abusively about my motives for my petition without knowing anything about Newmark. I regard what I said as highly relevant. You implied that I was victimising Newmark due to some conscious or unconscious bias against Jewish people for being corrupt with money, or clever with money, or whatever. I took great exception to such a suggestion. I don’t like Newmark because I know what he’s about, not because he’s Jewish.

            Yes, I am aware that there is such a thing as unconscious racism. (Do you seriously believe you are telling me something that’s never occurred to me?) One always has to be vigilant in examining one’s own motivations. I did, in fact, sit down and seriously consider, when writing and before posting that petition, if in doing so I would be reinforcing anti-Semitic tropes about handling money. You may disagree with my judgement, but I thought not: I worded the petition as carefully as I could to minimise such a risk, and I regard demonstrating that Newmark is an unsuitable person to be in the Labour Party as outweighing the rather small risk of such reinforcement. You know, Phil, you are not the only person in the world who thinks these matters through; do please try to avoid giving the impression that you are lecturing other human beings on what and how to think.

            I don’t tend to post much on here any more, and I don’t tend to challenge people much. Perhaps you are right, and I could have done more. (Have you written many such comments yourself? Are you on here much?) However, I have done a good deal to challenge racism and anti-Semitism in other ways, which I’m not going to specify because they are none of your business and I do not feel the need to justify myself to you. Incidentally, I haven’t seen much criticism of “Judaism” on here. I have seen plenty of criticism of Israel, and as long as it is accurate and principled, it seems a little pointless to squabble with people over it. Certain people here are very focused on Israel, but it would be a huge exaggeration to say that that’s the only thing ever discussed or indeed the only thing such people ever mention. And I would dispute that a focus on Israel is necessarily evidence of underlying anti-Semitism. That need not follow at all. It might be; it might not be.

            Best. J

          • Phil the ex-frog


            I accept I conflated your comment with others. Sorry for that. I guess I was riled by your call to blame and ban Habbakuk which does carry the implication that you consider his accusations unfounded. Also, if corruption is your concern there are plenty of bigger fish that need frying within the LP. Anyway, I hope you can see how these two comments together may have bent my thinking.

            I don’t comment here much these days. And yes I have previously challenged the anti-Israeli obsession here as both missing the point and veering into bigotry.

    • Knuckles

      Sharp Ears you should contact the police if these allegations are true. Its sounds disturbingly like (cyber) stalking.

      • Phil the ex-frog

        Of course she should, but she won’t because it is nonsense. Sharp Ears and Habbakuk have been bickering vociferously for years. They are equally obsessed with each other.

      • Knuckles

        Do you know Habbabkuk, Phil?

        Do you know if Sharp Ears actively tracks Habbabkuk’s contributions on other sites and attempts to slander their character? It sounds quite deranged and menacing behaviour to me to engage in. Slippery slope. I’d at the very least want to identify said individual which the police will do.

      • Phil the ex-frog


        No I don’t know Habbakuk.

        The idea that Sharp Ears hasn’t “slandered” Habbakuk is simply false. The insults flow both ways.

        As I understand it we are talking about three web sites. All three which have a many comment writers in common. So to use the fact that Habbakuk responds on all three as evidence of him stalking seems a bit daft.

      • Macky

        @Knuckles, Phil has misinformed you; to compare what “Sharp Ears” has had to endure compared to the few times she has been provoked to snap-back, and to describe this all as as mutual “bickering”, is shamefully dishonest.

      • Phil the ex-frog

        “Phil has misinformed you…is shamefully dishonest”

        Well I can only go on what I have seen over the years.

        To single out Hababkuk as especially offensive seems to me as surprising. He is no more or less so than many others. Anyway, I do not hold much store with being polite, which is mostly an attempt to insist upon conformity.

        Anyways. This is about ideology. Habbakuk’s main offence seems to be that his opinion is a minority here. If we detect a focus from a comment writer obsessing over the failings of Israel and Jews, then it is not entirely without merit to frame Habbakuks responses as anti-racist. I thought you lefties were big on anti-racism?

      • Node

        To single out Hababkuk as especially offensive seems to me as surprising. He is no more or less so than many others.

        Can you remind me who wrote the script “Habbabreak” and why? Did they single out any others for such special attention?

      • Phil the ex-frog

        “Can you remind me who wrote the script “Habbabreak” and why? ”

        Yes, it was me! OK, let me try to mount a defence of such blatant hypocrisy.

        Habbabreak did not just remove Habbakuks comments. The user could choose to filter any comment writer of their choice. Habbabreal was just a funny marketing ploy. And it was not vicious. I hope it was done with a creativity and humour that surely mitigated personal animosity. As evidenced by the fact that Habbabkuk even expressed a certain pride in it’s existence himself.

        Also, both this place and I have changed since then. I probably wouldn’t do it right now.

      • Phil the ex-frog

        “Habbabreal was just a funny marketing ploy. ”

        tbc I meant: the name “Habbabreak” was just a funny “marketing” ploy.

      • Node

        You make a compelling argument.

        OK, explanation of hypocrisy defence fail : You criticise others who “single out Habbabkuk as especially offensive” but you yourself singled him out by using his perceived offensiveness as a “marketing ploy.”

      • Phil the ex-frog


        Well if you want to ignore the rest of my comment you might have a point. I acknowledged the hypocrisy. I explained it was not intended nor received as vicious. I accepted I wouldn’t do it now. But OK.

        Also my sentence you originally quoted was in the context of banning Habbakuk for upsetting Sharp Ears. I was pointing out that she is not an innocent victim.

  • Knuckles

    Anyone else disturbed by the ”official” narrative being pumped out of the MSM attempting to justify Israel’s unprovoked aggression toward Syria once again as some sort of ”response”?

    ”An Iranian drone was shot down over Israeli ”airspace”” apparently yet there is no evidence across any websites of an Iranian drone wreckage in Israel. Just image after image after image of the F16 wreckage burning in a field in Syria’s Golan Heights. Very odd…………

    I’m sure someone in the IDF will correct this anomaly shortly………………….the wreckage of an Iranian drone on a Tel Aviv beach no doubt……………

    Its good to have friends in the media.

    • Je

      The thing that’s absurb is the Israelis of all people complaining about somebody violating their airspace. They fly all over the middle east not just violating airspace but dropping bombs almost whenever they feel like it.

  • nevermind

    Time to sit on the fence is over and Mrs. May will finally have to extract the painful splinters from her backside, deal with her party internal infections and decide what she is going to do in next weeks four hours of chats with Barniere.
    She is surrounded by self serving Brexiteers like Rees Moog who will personally earn handsomely from a hard Brexit which, in its basic conception, was lead all the way by the City of London Corp. who hated being accountable to a Tobin tax.

    “They seem to have forgotten that in the summer of 2016 the Brits only voted on whether the country should leave the EU, not how. But since then, the hardliners have been dictating their conditions, which include leaving the common market, leaving the customs union, ejecting the EU workers upon whom entire industrial sectors are dependant. They want out! Out! Out!! Out!!! And into a future that nobody describes in fluffier terms than Johnson. For them, it’s first and foremost about freedom — even it’s the freedom to drive the country at full speed into a wall.”]

    Crash helmets should sell well….

  • Sharp Ears

    Macky @ 14:35

    Thank you but please don’t waste time with these people. They will have been instructed by CAMERA or similar to pile in. I do not intend to go through that experience again.

    I was quite shocked to see on the Squonk blog how rude and insulting ‘Habbabkuk’ is to contributors. Why is he being hosted there? Everywhere he lands, he causes dissention and argument vix his recent visit to TLN posing as ‘James Devenish’ LOL and then Herman, as you pointed out.

    • Phil the ex-frog

      Sharp Ears
      “They will have been instructed by CAMERA or similar”

      Hilarious. That’s right. Anyone who criticises your relentless focus on Israel and Jews is a state shill. What a shallow response.

      Now accuse me of being a troll or whatever else reinforces your self identified victim status.

        • Phil the ex-frog

          Sharp Ears
          “MY focus is on the Palestinians.”

          LOL. As if we hadn’t noticed. What about the Dalit, Sahrawi, Mbendjele Yaka, Amerindians, the working class of Hull, Afro-Brazilians, Maubere…really, the list is endless.

          With all the oppression in the world you choose to only obsess, day in day out, year upon year, about those oppressed by Israel. Why is that?

          • Sharp Ears

            Speaking out of your hat again. Like others, you make incorrect assumptions about me. You have NO idea which other causes I support in spirit and financially. Mind your own business.

          • Sharp Ears

            Do the authorities in any of the countries named carry out deliberate executions of children, described here by Gideon Levy and Alex Levac from the Ha’aretz newspaper.

            Like a Safari: Israeli Troops in Jeeps Hunt a Palestinian Teen and Shoot Him in the Head
            A boy who threw stones at IDF jeeps suffered the punishment of execution by a soldier; it was the third time in recent weeks that soldiers aimed at stone-throwers’ heads
            By Gideon Levy and Alex Levac

            (Macky’s link below)

          • Phil the ex-frog

            Sharp Ears
            “Do the authorities in any of the countries named carry out deliberate executions of children”


  • Republicofscotland

    So the quasi-dictator of Turkey Erdogan, is railing over one of his helicopters that was shot down in Northern Syria. What is a Turkish helicopter doing in Syria in the first place?

    Well Erdogan is in the process of attempting to wipeout out as many Kurds as he can. The Turks are mounting a very bloody campaign against the Kurds. Of course Erdogan see’s the Kurds as terrorists, when in reality the Kurds are perseuted by the Turks.

    The Kurdish people posses seasoned fighters in the region, and fought against IS, in the recent Syrian regime change attempt that failed. However Turkey is a NATO member and no other NATO member will come to the aid of the Kurds, NATO has no qualms regarding the calibre of their members. So it would appear the Kurds, in Southern Turkey, and Northern Syria have a hard fight ahead of them.

    • JOML

      I don’t know Sharp Ears, but Habbabkuk was certainly the equivalent of ‘herpes’ on several blogs, always returning… That said, I’d prefer if Habbabkuk was rebuffed by posters than mods.

      • Macky

        “That said, I’d prefer if Habbabkuk was rebuffed by posters than mods.”

        Well that was always the problem here, uneven moderating; he could & did get away with stuff that nobody could get away, and any replies in kind were always removed, but leaving his taunting insults as the first & last words; in a level playing field, he would quickly just become the object of comical ridicule that he essentially is.

  • Republicofscotland

    So Republican Senator Marco Rubio, has sent out a rallying call to the Venezuelan armed forces asking them to overthrow President Maduro. The US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, intimated a similar tweet last week.

    The Great Satan, having been given a bloody nose in Syria, and stood up to by North Korea, now finds itself desperately throwing itself at the feet of the Venezuelan armed forces in the hope they carry out a coup d’etat.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    A couple of Days ago The Americans stated quite bluntly – “It is Our Oil , We have Stolen from The Syrians”. They never mentioned anyone else, and like The Russians probably laughed when the Syrians shot their F16 out of the Sky.

    The pilots survived, so that’s all right.

    Maybe they will try and use an F35 next – Oh Dear.

    “The Temptations – Shakey Ground”


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